> If its not OU it's a bad pokemon > If its not a

File: bad.png (81KB, 208x242px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 208x242px

>>30821670
you're a bad pokemon

>>30821670

No one believes this, anon

> If its not OU it's a bad pokemon
It's not bad. It's just that there's probably a Pokemon that can do its job better. But that's why we have tiers. If a pokemon is so good at a particular role that other pokemon fulfilling that role never see any use, it makes sense to separate pokemon into tiers based on usage and power, so that all pokemon that could be used competitively actually see some use.

Also, technically all pokemon in Ubers are "not OU", and are by definition, "too good for OU".

> If its not a sweeper it's a bad pokemon
Eviolite Chansey isn't bad at all, and it's not a sweeper...

> If its not good in singles it's a bad pokemon
To be fair, most battles on showdown are 6v6 singles (the only real way to play).

>>30821746
6v6 doubles have some strategy to them too. Too bad there will never be a significant doubles scene outside of VGC.

>It's a bad Pokemon because we couldn't deal with its gimmick and got it banned
>We put limits on how many Pokemon you can put to sleep at any given time because we're shit
>We nerfed Baton Pass because we're shit
>We can't deal with Bidoof with Moody so we banned it
>We can't deal with Shadow Tag so we banned it
>We can't deal with incredibly inaccurate 1 Hit KO moves that are blocked by numerous abilities and items so we banned it
>We can't even fucking program abilities correctly
>We think Pokemon is the best thing in the world but hate everything about it and want it to cater to how shit we are and have absolutely no respect for the game at all
I love the time they tried to ban Perish Song. Smogon is a fucking joke.

File: HEALTHY META.jpg (378KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 1920x1080px

>>30821670
OU is the only thing that matters.
Doubles are a joke(VGC especially. Pic related)
And all the other tiers are just "We are too shit for OU, so we have our own little playground where everything is still the same as OU but then with shitmons"

I have tried UU and it's the exact same shit. You build teams the same way, you still want good special sweepers who can OHKO stuff, good physical sweepers who can OHKO stuff, walls(Mixed or physical/Special) etc etc. All that changes are the mons you use.

Thus they are irrelevant.
Also, no-ne plays it. I get OU matches in seconds, and it took minutes to find UU matches.

>>30821686
There's a new Smogon hate thread every day posted by some faggot who's probably mad as fuck his "bro" isn't OU. This kind of braindead shit is very common on this board actually.

>>30821839
It should be:
>We nerfed Baton Pass because we're shit
>We nerfed Baton Pass again because we're even shittier
>We nerfed Baton Pass again -last time we swear- because we're the pinnacle of shittiness

>>30821670
>If it's not OU it's a bad Pokemon

That's true though. They're the best Pokemon that aren't completely broken like Ubers are.

Because we don't discriminate :^)

>Just use Trick room

>>30821839
>numerous
>only 1

>>30821941
Just like how Tangrowth was shit only to rise to OU after someone found out how good it can really be, right ?

>>30821839
>>We think Pokemon is the best thing in the world but hate everything about it and want it to cater to how shit we are and have absolutely no respect for the game at all
This is the cherry on the cake and perfectly articulates what I hate about Smogon. I could never put it down to any one thing until now

>>30821941
You don't need be OU by usage to actually be viable/usable in OU. If I follow your logic, Milotic and Arcanine are unusable trash pokemon right?

File: pathetic.jpg (82KB, 500x307px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 500x307px

>>30821670
>Wow power construct is so broken guys
>M-must b-b-ban e-everything
>Fwaa fwaa they don't play by my unofficial rules fwaaa mama smogma papa smogpa halp mehhh prs

Pretty autistic to try to enforce your fictional shit rules on people. Fictional rules that aren't even fucking official and then spread cancer and hate on the bulk of the fanbase that plays Pokemon for the fun of it, pathetic.

>>30821839
Pretty sure Perish Trapping was actually banned in gen 2, but that was way before smogon.

>>30822203
>implying the few autistic people define the entire community

well i guess every anti hacker is verlisify, every vgc player forces it down people's throat now, and every smogon hater is also verlisify

File: 12390rfinjf09.jpg (23KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 480x360px

>>30822233
>Implying that someone implied something when they called out those who enforce fictional rules to be autistic

>>30822203
>>30822203

ok let's battle with mega rayray, 4 swagplay klefki, and a choice scarf ditto

i hope you enjoy your healthy meta :^)

>>30821931
>We're banning Baton Pass because we hate it and if you ever use it in a tournament you're automatically saying that you're not skilled enough to fight fairly

>What? You want to ban Stealth Rock??? Get the fuck out of here, banning moves is retarded and so are you for thinking it's broken at all.

>>30822275
People did use baton pass in tournaments.
It was one team that pushed it over the edge cause it topped the ladder too and was basically unbeatable. Even teams with hard counters lost to it.

>>30822266
enjoy facing off against the same old mons in the shit tiers you made :^)

ohh but people arent allowed to have fun either, we at smogon hate fun so we try to silence the bulk of the fanbase :^)

>>30822275
As a Baton pass fan I actually agreed with the ban. You absolutely NEEDED to carry something to stop a BP chain. If you didn't, you would just be at the whims of the chainer untill he decided to finish you off, or if you forfeited.

+6 to all Mixed Infernape was hilarious, but I will be the first to admit that this was bullshit.

File: 1465727298562.png (244KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

244KB, 640x480px

>>30822266
>IF WE DIDN'T BAN THINGS THEN EVERYONE WOULD JUST USE THE SAME POKEMON!

So how is that any different to now?

>I CAN CURE PEOPLE GOING BLIND FROM CATARACTS BY CUTTING OUT THEIR EYES! Dr Smogon M.D.

>>30822298
I think you're kind of missing the point of my post, friend.

Smogon has ALWAYS hated Baton Pass, dating all the way back to Advance. There was a huge stigma for even daring to use it, and usage was kept low for that very reason. The staff on Smogon even went back to ban things like Ingrain Smeargle because they were deathly afraid of some newbie using Baton Pass to rack up wins during their precious SPL.

Fast forward to today, you can easily tell some of them are just salivating for a full Baton Pass ban. The hatred for this move amongst their staff is intense.

Contrast Stealth Rock, which has the biggest presence in the game and is easily the most oppressive with how many things you need to have to mitigate it. It is just as hated as Baton Pass in the userbase, but the staff loves the fuck out of it because they can use it to win. Even if it isn't the same thing as Baton Pass, it is the same idea in general, yet Smogon's staff will not even entertain the idea of looking at it critically.

They allow one thing to stay because they cream themselves over it and shit all over the other one because they lost to it repeatedly. It's hypocrisy at its finest.

>be me
>use Baton Pass just for the sake of momentum
>"don't talk to me or my bunker ever again"

>>30821746
>It's not bad. It's just that there's probably a Pokemon that can do its job better.

You're right that this is definitely a posibility, but I do want to note that it's not always the case. Hell, i'd even say its not the case up to 50% of the time (at least when discussing UU and maaaaaybe RU tier pokemon)

People really underestimate just how many pokemon are OU viable, but dont get the usage for it. UU in general is almost entirely viable in OU with their own niche. It's basically just OU #2. People focus too much on the distinction of usage tiers and attribute them as hard cutoffs for how good pokemon are, when the tiers are strictly usage based (barring bans).

But yes, there are also quite a bit of pokemon that aren't bad, just outclassed. Golduck is a good example, its actually not awful in OU as a rain sweeper. Well rounded enough to take advantage of damage output and the speed doubling. But Kabutops, M-Swampert, and Kingdra all do its job better.

>>30822129
>Wonder Guard
>Sturdy
>Focus Band
>Focus Sash

>>30822350
I'm pretty sure they did try a SR free meta back near the end of Gen V and all it did was promote Sashes.

File: 250px-399Bidoof.png (51KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 250x250px

this kills the smogonite

File: pachirisu.png (15KB, 1253x714px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 1253x714px

>>30822395
this also kills the smogonites

>>30822393
Spikes and hail/sandstorm still exist. People have to look at the alternatives.

File: 1414548832886.png (23KB, 520x490px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 520x490px

>>30822408
>applying vgc to smogon

Now you're going to tell me Instruction Oranguru kills the smogonites

>>30822408
No it doesn't. Because VGC =/= Smogon, and the small part of Smogon that DOES care about VGC was as flabbergasted and amazed as we all were by Se Jun's balls of titanium and crazy tactics.

>>30822393
For one, that meta hadn't actually been taken seriously. The staff had only put it up to appease people asking for an SR suspect, only to say that they weren't suspecting it right off the bat and the ladder was only 'for fun'.

And yet some of that very same staff used it as 'proof' that SR-less metagames would never work and it was evidence as to why they should never put one up again. Given the fact that this was only a side-ladder that never properly developed like OU, it's hard to draw any other conclusion from it other than things like Volcarona and Moltres would be much more powerful.

But I'm getting off the subject. I actually agreed with the Baton Pass ban because full BP chains were not fun to fight against, but I knew that the staff would not stop with a single ban and would chip away at BP until they found an opportunity to just ban it outright. Looks like I was right.

>>30822345

compare OU/UU/RU/NU to VGC and AG and get back to me, friend :^)

I thought Baton Pass was treated as a joke back in Gen 6, how did everyone started taking it seriously?

>>30822504
Saying something is good because you 'only' have to pass it +6 in everything to make it viable is the joke.

>>30822504
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-110739069

>>30822305
VGC is way more stagnant than any smogon tier

>>30822504
Espeon.

I don't even know what is and isn't a shitpost or bait in this thread anymore.

The "Smogon hates my bros" squad is out in full force again today I see.

File: 1399492767742.png (267KB, 565x648px) Image search: [Google]

267KB, 565x648px

>>30822305
>VGC talking about stagnation

The pot calling the kettle black.

>>30822630
Shitters need an excuse for being shit.

>>30822305
So how's that team of Sunflora/Lumineon/Beautifly/Stantler/Watchog/Ledian treating you on Battle Spot/VGC anon? :^)

>>30822350
It wasn't even the move, it was full baton pass teams.
BP has utility outside of stat passing but It was basically a win-con without player interaction that came down to team matchup instead of skill.

>>30822541
I always forget that item clause isn't a thing for smogon. No idea if that would do good or bad though

>>30822669
>player interaction
Yugioh memes now apply to competitive Pokemon?

>>30822541
>a decent player with a stall team that included Shadow Tag, Foul Play, Clear Smog and Haze couldn't beat it
Amazing

>>30822691
Yes, cause you don't have to think.

>>30822693
It even had Whirlwind but Ingrain makes it useless.

>>30821746
>It's not bad. It's just that there's probably a Pokemon that can do its job better.
So it's bad.

I get that you're trying to say some NU/UU or even low tier OU mon can hold their own fine in OU in general, but if we're looking at statistics then yes, yes it's bad. Because there's a more viable and accessible pokemon for you to use - competitively this justifies calling an NU/UU bad.

Outside of showdown and smogon expectations, there aren't so many boundaries. This means objectively and officially there are bad pokemon and good pokemon in terms of battle viability. Because pokemon was not created by smogon, right? Their meta is completely unofficial, and so outside of tiers or even in OU, where it's inclusive of shitmon. These pokemon are bad.

They have their tiers BECAUSE they can't keep up or are outperformed in the same role by a mile. NU/UU are just tiers for shitmon who can ONLY perform good enough within that respective shitmon tier. You see where I'm going with this?

I like smogon for the tiers and being able to identify where your mons sit competitively. But when you say something like "But that's why we have tiers", maybe we're talking about VGC but in regards to how smogon rates pokemon in terms of viability due to it being like thee only dedicated resource for being able to research something so large.

SO on vgc (the official objective of pokemon anyway) it does in fact mean that anything below OU is a complete shitmon.

You are right about the chansey thing, but I mean you have to be retarded to not know that a pokemon doesn't have to be fast to do well. Just so long as the stats are placed correctly for its ability, typing and movepool.

imo singles is probably the most official and default format, so a pokemon sort of does need to be able to hold its own. I get that some are made for doubles, like comfey or magearna. But doubles are an extra, not your bread and butter.

>>30822669
They hate the teams AND they hate the move itself. They hate the concept of passing big boosts to Pokemon that can take advantage of it. Nasty Plot + Baton Pass? Better ban Baton Pass. Extreme Evoboost + Baton Pass in Doubles OU? Better quickban that!

That's not to say that BP can be bullshit, because it can be and is at points. What I'm trying to say is that the staff's hatred of it never went away and they're trying to justify banning the move entirely now because they finally have an excuse to do so.

It's emblematic of their banning decisions these days. Things come down to "does the council/staff hate it?", and if yes, they'll do everything in their power to ban it.

>>30821839
>thinking sleep clause is a bad
You probably spam Spore faggot

>>30822762
>Constantly uses the term shitmon for Pokemon not in OU
>There is like two BL lists for pokemon really strong in UU, but not used as much in OU.

The fact that shit like the nerf to Talonflame means Staraptor is probably going to be OU and Gyarados-Mega is BL purely on Usage shows you know fuck all.

Hell, Volcarona isn't in High OU because you pretty much need to count Stealth Rock as always being up.

>>30822826
>Remove Sleep clause
>Just run more grass/Counter sleep pokemon

It's the same with Evasion-Spam. Just run Roar more

>>30822833
>Staraptor is probably going to be OU
lol Staraptor was even OU in Gen 4.

>>30822914
Pretty sure he was in Gen 5 too.

Only reason he wasn't OU was of Talonflame's Prio. Brave Bird.

It's why Gen 6 had the dramatic drop of fighting types alongside the Fairy Type adding.

>>30822925
He's been stuck in BL hell for three generations straight.

>>30822833
>>30822914
>>30822925

Y'all niggas don't know about my Z-mirror move Staraptor. Shit's gon get ugly.

>>30822833
Oh my god, no, stop.
You're using a single special case scenario to try and prove something.

>mon was nerfed so another one is good now

That's generally how it works and literally what I just said.

>BECAUSE they can't keep up or are outperformed in the same role by a mile

If it's no longer out performed then it becomes viable, not only that but it removes a threat and slightly changes the meta for some pokemon can now change their builds etc that starraptor is able to deal with.

So uh, yes I do know my shit, your reading comprehension is just bad.

>>30822947
>BL "Hell"

BL is literally "Extended OU" they're not less useful, they're just played less.

>>30822954
Mon in BL are not "Less viable" they are literally just less used.

Unless you suddenly thing Gyarados-Mega is a shitmon.

>>30822956
This. Shit like Garbodor could be fucking amazing and no one would use it just because it looks fucking ugly. While edgy shit like Garchomp would always have their worth noticed.

>>30823031
If I could find a use for it I would use garbodor in a heartbeat

>>30823031
I mean fuck, Gyarados-Mega is the perfect example of this.

He's BL in ranking, yet on the Smogon Viability chart he's in B+

Guess who is also in B+? CRAUNDAUNT WHO IS UU.

OU is usage, If we went by the pure autism of >>30822954
then we would never have a single Dark/Water attacker outside of Greninja, who is banned because he's all-types.

>>30823078
I'm just giving an hypothetical example. This is the reason Tangrowth took so long to be noticed as OU material. Being pooular factors in as much as being viable does in OU.

>>30822541
I wonder if people sometimes forget that Taunt can go through substitutes

>>30823031
Garbodor was like top 5 in NU.

>>30821670
>pokemon is 70% the battle facilities, everything else is shit we put up with to get to them

gamefreak please make a game for these faggots that is only battle facilities and square patches of tall grass

When you think about its true though. There are always going to be Pokemon that are simply better then others. They'll have better moves, abilities, stats or uses from others. So why would you deliberately not chose them? You are shooting yourself in the foot by making yourself not be as close to par as possible.
The list of vialble Pokemon is probably larger then people think, but there is for sure no more then 100 Pokemon that are simply better then the rest, and any use of them is just putting yourself at an advantage.

>>30823144
Magic Bounce.

>>30823151
I think it was called emerald. Gen 3 sucked though

File: Hi.png (700KB, 1280x1280px) Image search: [Google]

700KB, 1280x1280px

>>30822909
>Just run Roar more

>>30821670
Any mon UU and up are fine. You're just a salty cunt who dosent get outside /vp very often.

>>30821839
Nice b8 m8. But if you srs think they banned moody because of bidoof youre pretty naive. It was for smeargle smartguy.

>>30822762
>So it's bad.

Sure. But only if it's truly outclassed.

That term gets thrown around a lot, but it's a very rare situation. A better, more common case scenario is a pokemon providing more team structure flexibility, something that more easily works commonly on a team setup.

Otherwise, pokemon of SIMILAR roles will have small situations here and there where they perform better, or synchronize better with certain teammates. I would not consider that bad, just simply... "not OU".


In the past 3 gens, and especially in Gen 6 we've been seeing something unusual-- an oversaturation of viable pokemon. You hear people talk about this a ton, what with not being able to prepare for all coming threats, or how I mentioned earlier that UU is basically just OU #2. Both the nature of competition, and Smogon's current cutoff points simply dont accomodate for all of the OU-viable pokemon existing in OU. There needs to be a distinction between OU and OU-viable, as it's worlds of difference.