So what's the appeal in fighting the same 10-20 Pokemon

>>30801519
What's the appeal of your life?

>>30801519

What's the appeal of losing over and over again?

>>30801519
The whole point of the tiering system is to give you different formats where you can play with different pokémon.

>>30801519
I don't know, ask VGC players.

Smogon OU can be annoying yeah but if you play every tier and balance your play time between them it' not that bad.

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It seems you got the wrong pic

Not much, fortunately Smogon's tiers exist to create environments for those less fortunate Pokémon to shine in, unlike every other format where only the best of the best may be used.

I will seriously never understand why Smogon haters think this is an argument in their favor instead of the complete opposite it actually is.

>>30801680
That's because OP is merely (you) fishing. Good call not giving them one

>what are tiers?

>>30801680
The only tier that matters is OU.

I have spent entire minutes trying to squeeze a game into UU, and boy, does it show where the drones go off to.

Competitive kills creativity in terms of team composition.

I can understand OP very well. I'm only using pokemons i like, but since there is quite a few of them normally i'm able to make a team for a few tiers. But if not, even if i'm playing with my bros and lose it's still fun. And satisfaction is great when you win aganist OU or Ubers.

>>30801519
So what's the appeal in fighting Kangaskhan over and over again?

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>>30801519
:^)

>>30801519
Hey buddy I think you dropped your VGC image.

>>30801625
>>30801625
>>30801680
>>30801719
>muh tiers

It doesn't matter what tier you play in, because every tier has like 10-20 or so usable mons. The OP was saying that it gets stale fighting the same Pokemon over and over again.

I wish there were only two tiers: one for legendaries and one for the rest.

>30801949
You're not even trying

>>30801949
If there was one for the rest it would just be OU mons you fucking idiot. You can use shitmons in OU, just expect never to win.

>>30801949
You can use whatever Pokémon that isn't a Uber in OU

>>30801949
>I wish there were only two tiers: one for legendaries and one for the rest
How would that improve anything?

Which tier is my bro Bewear now?

Ghost Marowak/Psy Raichu are decent?

>>30801975
And you can't quote you failed abortion. Kys sub human

>>30801949
>there's no variation
>I want there to be even less variation

>>30801739
Complete bullshit, I can get a UU or doubles battle in less than ten seconds.

>>30801926
>strawmanbabby has to resort to last gen for his "argument"
sorry bub, but SM VGC has a ton of variety

>>30802033
>objective data is a strawman
Alright

>30802009
No, you don't deserve what you get from being quoted.

>>30802033
>haha, your evidence is no match for me calling you a faggot!

>>30802046
>>30802069
samefag

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>>30801519
Listen here you braindead faggot.
You can use ANY Pokemon that isn't in Ubers. No one is telling you to use 10-20 Pokemon. Go bring your fucking Dunsparce. No one is stopping you.

>So what's the appeal in fighting the same 10-20 Pokemon over and over again?
It lets you win. Winning feels good. I like feeling good.
Now fuck off.

>>30802033
(You)

>>30802005
Marowak will be based thanks to Tapus

>>30801949
>2 tiers
>for legendaries and non legendaries

That would be so much worse.

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>>30802033
>"ton of variety"
>literary kek, lel, celesteela, marowak, amd gastrodon: the meta
Anyone have that top 8 pic from the recent invite I think? Every team was nearly the same.

>>30802083
Wow, you are so rude and harsh on the internet. It sure gives your dick +2cm. That would be ~12cm in total!

>>30802009
Yo, newfag. It's called not giving (You)s

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>>30801519
>Not playing Random Battle

>>30802129
Oh, my apologies, my good Sir. I shouldn't have used such foul language. I might've hurt someone's feelings.

>>30802129
trying to measure a stranger's dick on the internet is really creepy and gay, anon.

>>30802148
Random battles are for those who aren't skilled enough to build a balanced and functional team.

>>30802127
This. Someone find it, I spent 10 mins looking to no avail

>>30802009
Only 18+ can post on 4chan.

>>30802127
The tournament you're mentioning was literally the very first tournament of the format. The most recent ones had over 25 different Pokemon.

>>30802033
Okay I can understand not liking Smogon. But saying VGC has more variety is just lying

>>30802160
On the contrary, Random Battles are for those skilled enough to win even if you end up with shit like Ledian.

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>>30802178
>samefagging 5 times to make it look like there's people agreeing with you
man, you can stop now. really, I'm starting to get concerned for your mental health

I'm autistic and I enjoy repetition

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>>30802191
>samefagging
Anon just because people call you out on actual lies doesn't mean it's one guy

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>>30802151
You are right, you wouldn't tell this to somebody on the street, would you?

>>30802153
No gays on this board!

We must create a metagame that is based on pokemon power, and when creating a team you are limited to X TP (Team Points).
Ex:
OU - 600 TP max

Team:
Garchomp - 150
Pelipper - 80
Butterfree - 40
M-Venusaur - 110
Magneton - 80
Heatran - 140

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>>30802211
Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean you're right.

>>30802191
are you retarded?

>>30802233
>incineroar
owlfags BTFO

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>>30802171
>Over 25
You complain about Smogon "variety" but then defend shit like this?

>>30802191
>Everyone who disagrees with me is a samefag
wew lad

>>30802233
>shitty meta before pokebank

Irrelevant

>>30802247
I'm not complaining about Smogon, I'm proving people are wrong saying that there is literally no variety in VGC.

>>30802250
>I literally don't know how the format works

>>30802233
>1 example from some Spanish country
Anyone have all the others we've seen that are just basically Tapus, Celesteela, and Porygon Z? This is certainly the most variety I've seen from VGC but I've seen tons of others that are just cancer

>>30801926
>2 Megas and a primal on every team
Explain

>>30802083
>It lets you win. Winning feels good. I like feeling good.
What the point if you use the same teams as the other? Mv2 and 3 got boring fast.

>>30802276
>it doesn't count because it's not from MURICA

London also saw a lot of variety. I unfortunately don't have access to the pic right now, but it wasn't "literally the same team" at all.

>>30802276
>Porygon Z?
Stop fucking talking about VGC if you don't know jack shit about the format retard. Watch some tournies or actually do research. this is the most varied VGC in years. cocksucker

>>30802282
Don't use the same team, then.
To me, winning matters more. If you find it boring, go pick out a different team.

>>30802326
>sperging out over a typo

>this thread

I just like playing Pokemon

>>30802326
Dude I'm just saying the shit I've seen

>>30802334
backtoreddit

>>30802230
Isn't there already a metagame that works like that?

>>30802326
>this is the most varied VGC in years. cocksucker
That's not really an accomplishment.

>>30802332
IT W-WAS JUST A T-TYPO!!!!!!

>>30802335
You haven't seen SHIT

>>30802371
feel free to battle me on showdown VGC

The tiers are bigger every gen. Shitty bait thread

>>30802371
Calm down man, Jesus christ

>>30802233
It's already shit, it will be worst in some months.

>>30801926
http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry/1391-a-history-of-japanese-competitive-pokemon-1996-and-1997/
Let's go all the way back.

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>>30802276
>>30802305

Here, I just booted up my other PC to get this.

>>30802368
>i-it doesn't count!

It's funny how people were saying you guys would just move the goalposts every time someone proved you wrong about VGC, and here we are.

>>30802233
Top Kek Cucks BTFO

>>30802410
That's not what moving the goalposts is, king autismo. I'm just stating that having a "meta" more varied than the previous year's is not an accomplishment when the "meta" has been shit for a couple of generations.

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http://i.imgur.com/ZqjqbxH.png

>>30802452
>claims vgc has literally no variety
>gets proven wrong
>past years were shit, therefore it doesn't count!

>>30802506
mai little boi

>>30802506
You keep making this weird assumption that everyone in this thread is one person. I only said that it's not hard to top a stale meta when the meta was stale in the previous year to begin with.
I like VGC but you're literally proving everyone in this thread right by sperging out like a retard to defend one of the shittiest metas yet.

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>>30802457
>What is an imageboard?
Imgur is used only to link porn here
back to >>>/r/eddit

>>30802545
>You keep making this weird assumption that everyone in this thread is one person.

How ironic.

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>>30801519
MEGA KANGHASKAN FOR EVERYBODY

the problem with smogon isn't the meta
the problem with smogon is the fucking community, holy shiiiiit

>>30802160
Then how come the userbase of RB has been increasing over the years, yet OU is still in full nosedive ?

>>30801949
Go to VGC then which has 6-10 viable mons instead of 20-30 for each tier.

>>30802591
Because skilled players are a minority.

>>30802247
>>30802250
>>30802276
>>30802332
>>30802385
>>30802380
>>30802368
>>30802452
>>30802542
>>30802545
Thanks for the (You)s you Smogon idiots
I have never baited this many little kiddies so easily, all of you samefaggers have been btfo!

>>30802636
epic. you win 4chan

>>30802636
we did it reddit!

>>30801519
It's not Smogons fault that 10-20 Pokémon are better than the rest. It's the same way in VGC. Game Freak really needs to really needs to hire a team of competitive players and have them focus on ret-conning old mons and designing the set ups for the 50 Pokémon that get introduced in gen 8.

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>>30802623
Or people are just sick of OU in general. Seriously, every time I hear someone say "OU is all that matters", I have a slight chuckle, that format has been in a constant decline not cause of the lack of skilled players, but because it's just not fun anymore, you want a good OU ? Look at 4th Gen, after that it was nothing but "Legends and Pseudos the meta" and I'm saying this as a former OU player. And this is even more evident now with OU being diet Ubers.

Plus, RB actually do show how much skill you have if you can win a battle with any random team and with shitmons like Ledian on it, but somehow still pull it trough. OU lost its charm long ago and the fags pushing on this tier, still saying it's the best are just delusional or just enjoy the low competition.

>>30802171
>10-20
>25
>A LOT MORE VARIATION
Fuck off faggots. I prefer VGC over single all day every day but I won't sit around lying to myself about how much better the variation is.

>OU players all use the same mons!
>Smogon says bros aren't viable in OU!
>Now they banned my bro!
>There's no variety!
All of these complaints are solved easily by playing a different tier. I'm not just talking about UU either. Try Doubles, VGC, Monotype, STABmons, Almost Any Ability, etc. What's shit in OU could be amazing for you in another meta.

>>30802754
>Or people are just sick of OU in general
No reason to assume that.
It's more logical to assume that people aren't playing OU because the meta is still not clear, and because teambuilding is hard, especially considering that new Pokemon still don't have Smogon strategy pages.
>every time I hear someone say "OU is all that matters", I have a slight chuckle
Feel free to laugh at your strawman as much as you want, I never said that personally, I'm a doubles/battle spot fag. What I'm saying is that random battles are for incompetents, which is true.
>Plus, RB actually do show how much skill you have if you can win a battle with any random team and with shitmons like Ledian on it, but somehow still pull it trough
No, because your opponent has a random team too.
Ladian isn't objectively bad, especially not in a random setup. It might carry double screens, thunderwave or whatever, which might be exactly what you need in that particular scenario.

>>30801519
You don't HAVE to fight in ubers and/or OU you know. The lower tiers are much more varied.

Smogon is actually pretty decent in the lower tiers, it's just OU that's shit. OU is a containment tier for the nofunallowed mons.

>>30802571
Excellent rebuttal, my good sir. I tip my fedora to you!

>>30802946
Smogon tiers are based around usage, hence OU (Overused), UU (underused), NU (Never used), etc.

OU is the defacto tier that Smogon tries to balance the most.

>>30802757
You're putting words in my mouth. Even so, 25+ out of like, what, 100? fully-evolved picks is a lot, whether you like it or not. Remember that VGC17 is limited to the Alola dex, so you can't use the argument about being over 800 Pokemon and only 10 of them are being used.

>>30801949
>I wish there were only two tiers: one for legendaries and one for the rest.
Spotted the underage.

>>30803138

Spotted the geniefag.

>>30802230
Horrible idea.

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>>30801519
Because it's better than fighting the same 4-6 Pokemon over and over again faggot.

>>30803156
>y-you like genies!
Fuck off underage. Do you know ANYTHING about competitive? "Legendary" is a completely meaningless term there.

>>30803138
You don't have to be underage to realize that legendary Pokémon are designed to be op.

>>30803291
>Catalog
Legendary pokemon are gonna be more powerful on average, but for every mega-fug you have shit like Articuno. Separating Legendaries and others is just stupid idea and won't lead to any more variety.

>>30803291
regigigas lol
regis lol
meloetta lol
articuno lol
moltres lol
lol

>>30803338
>>30803384

>Articuno isn't a legendary

Y'all are retards.

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>>30801519
So what's the appeal in fighting the same 16 pieces over and over again?

>>30803403
He's saying that Articuno is underwhelming.

It's 4x weak to Stealth Rock and it's part Ice Type which isn't exactly a good defensive type.

>>30803384
Yes there are some underwhelming legendaries but the majority of them are ubers for a reason. Just look at their stats (especially the stats.), movepools, and etc.

>>30803338
...? What? Who cares if articuno gets banned, he wasn't going to get used either way.

Meanwhile if you ban all legendaries from VGC you would see a much more varied metagame. Absence of psychic terrain boosted STAB Psychic off of base 115 SpA being removed from the metagame would open many more options for both defense and offense.

>>30803482
You wouldn't see a more varied metagame, you'd still see the same stuff over and over again, except without legendaries.

>>30803470
Uxie lol
Mesprit lol
Shaymin land form lol
Guzzlord lol
Diancie lol
Virizion lol

>>30802279
Well you only pick 4 of the 6. The two best megas you can pick between for different situations and since they allowed Primals you're just putting yoursel at a disadvantage by not using them since they're so ridiculous

>>30803533
Literally that's not true. Psychic that is stronger than fucking mewtwo cuts out a vast array of defensive & offensive options because even a neutral hit OHKOs some pokemon. The remaining pokemon after legendaries are removed are not nearly so strong, aside from pseduo-legendaries like garchomp.

>>30802230
There was a system that tried that, but it quickly devolved into "use 3 good pokemon and then 3 shitmon for rocks/spikes/rapid spin"

>>30801519
Stop playing in OU you fucking retard. UU and under is where you see actual skill and creativity.

>>30803707
>implying OP even plays competitively at all
>implying he doesn't just want to shitpost.

Better the same 15 or so, then the same 6.

>>30803533
Not really true bro. Look at UU. There is wide variation. The reason is simple:

A----------B-C--D

Stay with me for this analogy: "A" is the top pokemon (legendaries) and its distance to the next best thing. As you can see, BCD are all close to each other relatively speaking, especially when compared to A. If you just ban A then you can use both B and C and be fine, and even sometimes D is useful as glue or to fill a specific role. When A is allowed there is no way D or even C will ever be used, ever. "A" can do 85% to "D" with resisted hits, that's how bad "D" is.

Now "A" contains a lot of legendaries, and getting rid of legendaries cuts down the A pool quite considerably. It's not a perfect solution but imagine if 'Chomp was not a regional pokemon in Alola and Tapus were banned? The metagame would be COMPLETELY different and would actually look a lot like current smogon UU, which is a metagame with tons of variety and cool strategies that are unique from each other. A lot of top teams in UU are completely fucking different.

TL;DR; When you get rid of the pokemon that are very, very far ahead of the rest of the "crew" and all of the remaining pokemon are closer together in competitively viability, you will see a lot of variety.

>>30803851
UU is nothing like you think it is. The top of the meta is actually incredibly centralized, and top uu players agree there is no room for innovation as of right now.

>>30803851
Except Legendaries aren't "very,very far ahead", that's why tiers are there. Lengendaries in competitive aren't inherently better than other mons on average, but they tend to be because of their stats. If you look at usage stats, you'll notice that legendaries are pretty close in usage to other stuff in their own tier. There are exceptions (like landorus-t in gen 6 OU), but it wouldn't be more varied. All you would do is prevent an arbitrary group of pokemon with varied viabilities from being played.

VGC in a nutshell

>>30803963
>Lengendaries in competitive aren't inherently better than other mons on average
having higher BST and an always great ability matters. In this generation they all get free choice specs.

>>30803943
Because UU right now is XY OU. Smogon will have to create new tiers if Gamefreak keeps this power creep up.

>>30804015
I was talking about gen 6 UU. SM UU is even worse.

the only good meta is the one that only exists between you and your friends where neither player cares about winning but prefer to just use teams comprised of either pokemon they find interesting or just flat out pokemon they like

>>30804015
SPEAKING of new tiers, has there been any word on that supposed tier between OU in Ubers and that one where BL could become its own tier cause the ban list this gen is gonna be massive ? Also how's FU going ?

>>30803984
It does matter, but that's not inherent to legendaries. You make it sound like legendaries are always at the top of their tier and have more usage than the rest by a significant amount. They aren't. Let's say you banned the top 10 pokemon in every tier. You wouldn't make the metagame more varied, you'd just just limit the amount of stuff that can be used. Other things would come and fill in the gap. You can't just decide to ban an entire group of pokemon, you have to do it on a case by case basis. Nothing's stopping you from making a custom game on showdown with no legendaries allowed, but wanting to ban them in the official metas is just ridiculous.

>>30801949
The term legendary means fucking nothing, no need to be afraid of Articuno and reggigigas just for their bst.

>>30804040
This AF. I battle my friends online and it's mostly to show our favorite mons or if someone gets a shiny they put it in the slot.

Wifi battle and battle spot a shit.

>>30804025
Does it exist already? I thought they were gonna wait until next year for things to settle before officially creating the tiers.

>>30804053
Too early to say. And I thought that was just /vp/ wishful thinking? I haven't heard much of that on smogon. As for FU, it has a decent following, but right now it simply doesn't have the interest required to make it an official tier like they did with PU.

When will they make BL an actual tier instead of too good for UU and not good enough for OU

>>30804173
It's a banlist. It's too small at the moment for it to be a tier.

>>30802360
Yes and it went to shit. It was way more centralized and only 4 teams existed on it.

Also people arbitrarily deciding what's good and putting numbers on them is way more cancerous than a metagame based on usage with decent banlist.

>>30804015
>>30804025

There isn't even a proper UU tier yet and there won't be a beta UU for another couple of months. At the moment it's just Alpha UU where anything that isn't currently OU by usage is allowed, even shit which has Drought, until the usage stats stabalize and the direction of the meta becomes clear.

Half the shit currently allowed in Alpha UU will be OU or BL when the dust settles.

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>>30804086
We recently had a Battle Royale where three of us brang a Comfey and stalled the match as long as possible making sure nobody died while the fourth friend who wasn't in on the meme just kept asking "why"

>>30803963
legendaries are defined by high stats and great move pools.
they are inherently better than regular pokemon. they're made to be.

>>30804040
any game wherein the players don't care about winning is incredibly dull. games are only fun when your choices matter, and they only matter insofar as you're trying to win.

>hurf durf smogon hates fun!
Goddamn it's like it's 2010 all over again.

>>30801949
just kill yourself, honestly. it's for the best.

>>30804053
Stupid idea, Ubers is a banlist.

BL only happens with tiers that have usage as a metric.

No usage as metric means there is no purpose for a BL. And Ubers just like LC are the quintessential non usage based metagames.

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>>30804268
trying to win in a game with as much rng as pokemon is shit because your winning or losing a game can be completely out of your control

>>30804345
True, but if your a good player, you'll still win the majority of your games in the long run.

just had this happen

Alcal777: nice legendaries
Alcal777: gg
Alcal777 forfeited.

quite gay

What's the appeal of double team tanks and ultra powerful legendary pokemon?

>>30804251
Half of legendaries have crap movepools

>>30804399
you can be a competent player without taking the game seriously because all pokemon takes is some basic knowledge of making sets and then in a battle it just comes down to guessing your opponent which is a skill that handily transfers from almost every other competitive game

>>30804321

There is LC Ubers and UU though.

>>30804401
Free ladder at least.
What tier was it?

>>30804419
Who gives a fuck, no one used them anyway. TPCi bans Phione, you think it's because it's too powerful? No, it's because they ban all pokemon that belong to a category. So they should ban all legendaries, and not give a fuck about fucking Articuno being a casualty

>>30804419
tell me which half, name them.
all of them are able to learn many moves, and have their own broken abilities and signature moves on top of 600+ BST.

>>30803943
> Top UU players

Holy fuck this made me laugh.
No-one cares about your shitmon tier your chucklefuck. Who cares what people who like to be contrarian and play with shitty Pokemon do? No-one.

>>30801949
You DO know that this will also create an environment where 10-20 Pokémon are viable, don't you?

Here, you earned the (You) for trolling me successfully.

>>30804532
>their own broken abilities
lol pressure
>600+ BST
Most legends actually have 600 and under. BST is important, but not everything. Just look at Kyurem-B.

>>30803450
not to mention bad stat spread and extremely shitty movepool

>>30804532
Most non psychic legendaries are like hurting for coverage like registeel,raikou and articuno

>qmazing abilities

Well some only get abilities that might as well not exist or useful rarely like pressure or a mold breaker clone

>>30803470
>majority
Lel

>>30802109
And you know, double attack and lightning rod and coverage and rocks and will o wisp

>>30803064
Coward.

>>30803470
>>>>>>>>>>>the majority of them

>>30803482
Articuno is A- tier in PU.
By changing its tier you're removing its only niche and effectively killing variety.

>>30804525
>Who gives a fuck, no one used them anyway
They're used in the lower tiers.

>>30804412
Double team is a dumb and ineffective gimmick that you'll never see on the high ladder.

>>30804486
Non usage based play.

>>30801949

What did the guy who wanted to use his Electivire do to you that you must hurt him so, anon?

Shhh, you'll anger the fags

healthy meta