Please, if you will. Picture the following scenario. An Ash Greninja

DORAGON

>hydro miss

>>30800592
Feels like rain teams got a lot of nice shit this gen
>pelipper
>ashfrog
>cool new toys to play with like thunder top kek and a-marowak

At least use extrasensory on Toxapex

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>252+ SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 318-378 (107 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I want to be the strongest together with Charizard. That's what we'll always be, no matter the match-up.
You see, our bond goes way beyond any of your logic.

>>30800592
MegaZard X completely walls it, and somehow Blast Burn completely OHKOs it.

it's futile, anon.

>>30800592
You realize that a tough claws dragon claw is an almost guaranteed OHKO on jobber frog right? As well as BURASTO

>>30800688
Extrasensory only OHKOs Toxapex if it has very little defensive investment. Dark Pulse is better as it is a stronger attacking type with STAB.

>>30800825
But Rain Water Shuriken is Prio that oneshots it.

>>30800832
Water shuriken isn't prio

>>30800847
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Water_Shuriken_(move)
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/watershuriken.shtml

It's prio+1

>>30800847
This is wrong
>>30800832
In all honesty, the Bisharp would have killed the frog with a suckered punch, the way it was mowing down the rest of the team

>>30800832
The point is to do much more damage than it can Recover off. It's then forced to switch and now you've got momentum

>>30800832
>Rain
>+Nature
>Choice Specs
>255 EVs

Against a
>0 SpD/HP EV Zard

Yeah, really fair.

>>30800890
We all know that zard X was mixed as fuck if not totally defensive. It tanked a fucking thunderbolt from Godchu

>>30800902
And chockerfrog is a mixed attacker for reasons.

>>30800902
Not only that, it took one Hydro Pump, one Power Up Punch, and two Mega Launcher Dragon Pulses from an E4's Mega Blastoise to go down. In the very first episode it appeared in.

>>30800890
Not only that, Greninja NEEDS someone to set up Rain, as well as someone to knock out, in order to Mega Evolve.
Proteanfrog is still the best. It can carry it's own wait, at least.

>Job Frog will forever be ridiculed due to his one embarrassing loss

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>>30800592
>I already picked mine yesterday
>it's Timid
REEEEEE I HOPE SHIT SHIT DOESN'T WORK OTHERWISE I'M FUCKED

>>30800592
>Locked on one move
>Requires Rain to be set up, and a predictable switch
>Requires pebbles
>Required to have killed a Pokemon, so it Mega Evolves

You'd be better off using a Protean Greninja. With this much set-up, any Pokemon can fuck. It's not going to work. Ever.

>>30801353
>Locked on one move
Irrelevant if the move kills
>Requires Rain to be set up
Well he did say he was going for a Rain set didn't he? That's the gimmick of the team.
>Requires pebbles
Almost all decent teams run pebbles.

>>30801353
>You'd be better off using a Protean Greninja
That thing is going to be banned again soon. Why use something you know is going to be banned? Ash Greninja at least has the risk of having to kill first for it to work, it's highly doubtful that they will ban him.

>>30801488
>Irrelevant if the move kills
Is relevant, because it doesn't kill with every move. A good switch to something that resists it can fuck up the momentum.

>Well he did say he was going for a Rain set didn't he? That's the gimmick of the team.
>Almost all decent teams run pebbles.
Point it, too much set up, too unreliable and too predictable. The opponent isn't going to sit around waiting until you get everything ready.

>>30801554
They will. Blaze Blaziken is banned, not just the Speed Boost one. I don't see why it will be different for Greninja.

>>30801561
Pelipper is a good mon on its own right now, and if things are really dire it can just tag out to set rain and absorb an attack so Greninja can swap moves.
Considering Greninja's speed, Dark Pulse and Prio Water Shuriken, even the normal one two-shots a lot of meta stuff, and it works as a fantastic revenge killer that turns into a sweeper.

>>30800592
>The opponent hung on with Focus Stash
>The opponent used Tackle
>Greninja fainted

>>30801561
>because it doesn't kill with every move
If not even Celesteelñla and Skarmory can tank it, what can?

>The opponent isn't going to sit around waiting until you get everything ready
So what you are saying is no Rain team can use Pebbles and no team with Pebbles can use Rain? Because that kind of stuff is used together all the time.

>>30801579
Ash Greninja is kind of a Mega Evolution

>>30801668
>Celesteelñla
Celesteela, fuck this phone.

>>30801649
>focus sash
>water shuriken

>>30801668
>If not even Celesteelñla and Skarmory can tank it, what can?
Anything that resists Water, or has high Special Defense? Even a Venusaur can do the job.

252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-X Blast Burn vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 178-210 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed tears

>>30801875
It still has Dark Pulse you know

>>30801959
It's got Choice Specs, you know.
It's a good strategy, but with the amount of set up it requires, there are better thing available. Don't chalk it up as something game breaking. Otherwise, someone before you would've been using it.

Wait, I thought it was Hardy only

>>30802049
once you transfer it from the demo it can have a random nature. you can soft reset for a different nature when its in sun or moon.

>>30801995
>It's got Choice Specs, you know.
Yeah just like many other pokes. If you get the read then Venasaur is most likely going to die to the Dark Pulse.

>It's a good strategy, but with the amount of set up it requires, there are better thing available.
Yeah I am sure there are others, but I think this one might just work too. The set up isn't even that hard with Pelipper being pretty good, you just need someone to set the pebbles.

>Otherwise, someone before you would've been using it.
I'm not even OP, I just think the strategy looks really fucking good. It's not even full dependent on Ash Greninja, you can add more shit other than Pelipper and whoever is setting the pebbles, like Araquanid who can also 1
OHKO Topu Lele and Celesteela under the Rain.

>>30802181
but you need to get a knock out on greninja to have it change. it just seems too predictable.

>>30802181
Go use it, then. See how it turns out. Post a link to battle here. Would love to see this "really fucking good' strategy in action.

>>30802223
Why are you so ass devastated over this?

>>30802206
Well Greninja on his own right is pretty good too you know. Even without Protean, Water Shuriken and Dark Pulse are still stab.

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>>30802268
I think you're giving the frog a little too much credit now.

>>30802248
I'm not.
I just genuinely believe this wouldn't work. You're wasting an otherwise good Pokemon on a really strategy that requires everything to go your way.

>>30802268
>Even without Protean
It's shit.

I like using both desu. It gives me a choice between using two different builds. Ash-Greninja just needs a little bit of timing and skill to work with.

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Nihilego, Sneaky pebbles + Toxic spikes suicide lead with Greninja is good. Just stall the poison turns and pick off a kill to sweep

>>30802313
>You're wasting an otherwise good Pokemon
A good Pokemon that is likely getting banned again. Yeah sure you may say Ash Greninja could also get banned like Blaze Blaziken, but Ash Greninja is a transformation, it just might get a pass.

Is it even possible to get Protean Greninja on Sun and Moon right now?

>>30802389
>skill
>on a game that heavily relies on RNG

Wat

>>30802399
Anon, a mega form can't be in a tier lower than it's base form. That's how these things work. If Greninja is banned, Ash-ninja will be too.

>>30802412
>implying good prediction and timing (switching) isn't a mental skill

Wat.

It's a potent wall breaker in the guise of a revenge killer.

It shits on HO, that's a given, but using a very specific set up on a choiced mon just gives your opponent as many turns to break your momentum.

Choiced mons are supposed to abuse their speed tier and then fuck wathever is in front of them or wathever dares to switch in, MR frog just loses a lot on a misdprediction and Pelipper is always on a timer.

I'm not saying it isn't viable in hazard offense with rain, I'm just saying it is unreliable vs other playstyles that aren't HO.

>>30801579

Because Smogon already banned Power Construct and not Zygarde as a whole.

If they end up banning Ashinja, they'll be banning Battle Bond

>>30802565

Also adding on to that Ashinja has a limited movepool compared to other Greninja as well as set IVs too, not to mention it's unbreedable. So by technical terms, it's different from Greninja.

>>30802425
It's not really a Mega though

>>30802535
>Choiced mons are supposed to abuse their speed tier
That's true, but Water Shuriken has Priority. What's the point of outspeeding everything when your main attack has priority? It seems like a waste.

>>30802631
Whatever it is, it is a transformation of Greninja. It can't, under Smogon rules, be in a lower tier than it's base form.

>>30802565
That is moving a form a tier higher. It was done with Gengar, and it works with Zygarde. It's nothing new.
But it's the opposite for Greninja. Base form is stronger than Mega form. That's the problem. If base form is to be banned, the Mega form is going to be banned too. That's also the reason M-Garchomp was in OU, even though no one used it over normal Garchomp.

How about something like this?

Greninja + Pelipper for Rain and the main boy
Alolawak to deal with troublesome Electric-Types, sets rocks
Mega Metagross as just a good all around offensive mon.

What could the final 2 slots be? Celesteela?

>>30802723
Smogon already stated both are going to be tiered separately.

252+ SpA Charizardite X Charizard-Mega-X Blast Burn vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ash-Greninja 8999-9001 (999.9 - 1000.0%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>30803480
>he still doesn't understand
that only matters if the mega is higher usage/better than the base
this is not the case
stop

>>30800592
>implying greninja would be able to secure a kill
Protean still a best.