So why did they make the starters so terrible stats wise? Matter

>>30750046
Primarina hits like a truck, if she was fast, then she would be one of the best starters ever. No idea what's the excuse for Decidueye or Incineroar

Gamefreak doesn't care about smogon rules or 6v6 singles. They're only concerned with VGC viability. Another explanation is that they really don't give a shit because they know that people who get into the meta are only like 10% of their audience. Most people don't care about how dumb Decidueye's spread is they just care about how cool it looks.

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Leave OU to me!

>>30750186
But it doesn't look cool. It looks fucking goofy as fuck. The leaked assassin's creed owl looked cool.This thing looks like a character in Arthur

>>30750186

10%? try less than 1%. hell, VGC tourney streams only rake in like 500 viewers on twitch lmfao. GF dowsnt care about the autistic "competitive scene" at all

>>30750186
Sometimes I just don't get gf
>make Decidueye have mixed offensive stats
>only give it physical moves

>Make Incineroar dark type heel wrestler
>don't give it sucker punch

>>30750234
well it must be fun being a casual and a shitter at the same time.

>>30750244
They are either actively being annoying to those who understand their game or they throw darts at a board. Why do they create centralising things such as gale wings talonflame or auto and permanent weather inducers and then nerf them to uselessness but at the same time keep stealth rock for generations?

>>30750203
Primarina won't be OU. It didn't even make it to pre bank ou. Sad fact that all 3 Starters r not fantastic this time round

>>30750244
They've been doing stuff like this since day 1. The one that always annoyed me was my bro Sceptile having nothing but physical moves but being a special attacker. Then there's examples like Meganium where it's completely ass in every way imaginable.

>>30750473
Incineroar will get a nice boost whenever they decide to release intimidate.

>>30750046
They're pretty good as far as starters go

Starters have always been unviable for compeititve because of their modest spreads and above average BSTs.

You could count the stand alone starters who were OU in one hand (Emp,Infernape,Swampert) Then there's those who got blessed with a bomb ability like KFC and Narutoad

>>30750318
Because Stealth Rock isn't common in doubles but Gale Wings Talonflame and Weather are and are useful in doubles?

>>30750046
Slow bulkier physicalier Infernape is hardly "terrible".

>>30750482
Yes Sceptile was really a kick in the balls. Such a good physical movepool but it's stats are skewed towards special attacking

>>30750660
Mega sceptile would actually do pretty good in current meta with all the electricity running about. Sad that it's not released

>>30750526
I sometimes feel starters end up competitively viable by accident. Look at the Hoenn trio, The Colonel got Speed Boost, but what did Swampert and Sceptile got ? A ULTRA situational ability (Damp) and one that requires to take a hit in order to work properly since Gems are gone (Unburden) and it doesn't help that Sceptile was naturally fast already or frail. As for the Kalos trio, I'm pretty sure no one at GF tought Protean will be that broken so they just went with it.

>>30750482
Grass was Special in Gen. 3 and before so Sceptile is one of those Pokemon that might've suffered a bit after the split.

Even though Sceptile didn't have any Physical STABs before the split it could learn Swords Dance and moves like Body Slam, Double Edge, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Crush Claw, and etc. so Sceptile could still hit hard physically ingame. I think this is how Game Freak balanced out Sceptile not having any Physical Grass moves. You just have to think about it for a bit and some of their designs choices will start to make sense.

Kingler is a lot like Sceptile in gen. 3, it has no Physical STAB but it does learn Swords Dance, Stomp, Double Edge, Flail, Dig, Rock Tomb, Hyper Beam, Metal Claw, and Body Slam for hitting harder ingame.

>>30750693
Too bad Sceptile already is 4x resistant to electric so I feel like the electric immunity is a bit wasted. Granted the SpAtk boost is appreciated but I feel like it would've gone farther with a better ability

>>30750473
>This time around

There has never been a gen where all three starters were fantastic.

Gen 4 came close but Torterra fucked everything up.

>>30750244
You need to look at it from a more casual perspective. Decidueye learns Nasty Plot as the last move it can learn on level-up. It can learn Hidden Power, Solar Beam, Shadow Ball, Round, Echoed Voice, Energy Ball, Grass Knot, Round, Ominous Wind, Frenzy Plant, and Grass Pledge. Just because Decidueye doesn't have many special moves viable for Smogon's metagame doesn't mean it doesn't learn any. Game Freak doesn't balance the game around Smogon, at least not exclusively.

>>30750046
Incineroar, once it gets intimidate, will actually be pretty viable. I do wish they made the other two good, though. Swap Decidueye's Speed and Sp. Atk and give Primarina recover for god's sake.

>>30750220
This. The leaked one was total edge though but I don't think Decidueye looks cool in the slightest. It barely looks like an owl and more and the spookiest aspects of an barn owl: the white 'mask' and eyes, they fucking change to make it look permanently meh instead. Decidueye is wasted potential like fug. Whoever came up with the archery hoody idea and ran with it needs to be shot.

It's such a tease that Litten had 70 base speed and Torracat had 90. In fact, looking at Torracat's bases, you'd have expected Incineroar to have stats similar to Infernape's.
But no, 60 speed :^)

>>30750865
This is kind of fugging hilarious. I swear they literally troll on purpose sometimes.

>>30750499
Incineroar is going to be fucking amazing for Doubles/VGC once they release its HA. Intimidate+Fake Out/WoW/STAB Dark and Fire moves? You can bet your ass people are going to use it. Hell it's semi usable now. Its signature move even ignores stat boosts, which is amazing.

>>30750220
The fake was cool but a bit plain, and the real Decidueye is interesting but has a bit too much going on with the design (and I fucking hate those spots on the wings, they look so unnatural).
If you fused the best parts of both of them together it'd be fucking perfect.

>>30750789
You mean they don't balance they game around anything but whim.

Sometimes its in accordance with VGC, other times its because they hate their audience and want them to suffer. I'm pretty sure their balancing team was non-existent until a year or two ago. And it is now comprised of a few people from random departments who come together twice a year after work and have to shit something out otherwise overhead will be on them.

>>30750703
I'd be inclined to believe this. Typically we'll at best get one that maybe accidentally gets blessed somehow (Super Fighting Chicken, Narutoad, Edge), one that has a terrible stat spread and/or moveset sync (Christmas Raptor, Pig God, Robin Hoot) and one that just gets shit on everywhere else (Mr. Stake, Husbando Seal, Waifu Seal).

Incineroar only got by comparatively good due to not having totally fucked stats + a decent HA. Decidueye needs to lose the SpA and get some Speed, and Primarina needs more bulk + recovery + a new HA.

>>30750046
All effort went into min-maxing the UBs and tapus.

>>30750865
>>30750897
Wait really?
That's hilarious.
I think GF might actually get a kick out of trolling its player base. They know they don't have to do anything but shit out the mininmum to keep sales going.
Hopefully Yokai Watch will actually put a flame to their feet and get them to try for once.

>>30750234
You know what makes no sense to me?
That people will actually watch streamers breeding and resetting for shinies. That shit is mind numbingly boring even for the person doing it, but at least you get a reward eventually. Why in the fuck would anyone, let alone several hundred people, choose to watch someone hatch thousands of eggs?
And that's what most streamers do. Check twitch. Only like 1/20 actually battles other human beings.

>>30750703
Do you think they're really that incompetent?
I don't think it could be anything but that or conscious malice.

>>30751030
Primarina needs Boomburst, there are too many bulky water types, but with that move you can slap a Specs and it will have a niche

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>>30751087
Just look at this.
Litten and Torracat were just bait to make you think this was going to be Infernape 2.0.

>>30751087
>Hopefully Yokai Watch will actually put a flame to their feet and get them to try for once.
Hilarious.

>>30750974
Fucking amazing? U think way too highly of it. Intimidate will be a boost for it but it's not gonna be a game changer. At the moment, it has lower usage then the other 2 starters

>>30751125
It had a niche before all those Pokemon dropped to UU. I don't know about now though. It'll probably come back once stuff starts getting banned or whatever.

>>30751125
Primarina isn't really bulky to begin with unless you throw a AV on, and even then it's HP holds it back. But there's probably a better chance of that happening than it getting Boomburst, which GF would think is too OP. Cause y'know, Arceus forbid they take measures to make it's HA worth a damn. Probably goes for Decidueye too.

>>30751390
He said Doubles though. VGC and Doubles are an entirely different ball game from Singles.

>>30751390
Intimidate+Fake Out alone will make it really viable in VGC/Doubles.

>>30750186
99% the shit they added this gen that isn't a Tapu or UB isn't viable for VGC though.

And Half of the new pokemon this gen are barely usable in game. You know you fucked up when something can't even be useful in game

>>30751607
Trick Room is a lot easier to abuse in Doubles considering you can have one Pokemon set Trick Room and the other attack or whatever.

>>30751655
Speed alone isn't the problem for most Alola mons. I'm fine with a slow mon if it's got bulk to help it but so many are utterly fucked in the stat spread department.

Not to mention if you have to use Trick Room to make a mon decent, that's just sad. Especially with how easy it is to counter TR with a Taunt lead

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>>30750046
No

>>30750046
I honestly expected GF to make all the starters good this gen. After Greninja and megas gave starters a representation in high tiers I fully thought GF was planning on making them great.

When they officially showed them off in the reveal trailer I thought it was basically confirmed. Decidueye looked like a Greninja style fast sweeper, Incineroar looked like a bulky wallbreaker, and Primarina had great typing and seemed like the bulky setup sweeper.

Then the datamine showed stats for these guys and they're all shit

>>30750046
>why does it seem like most pokemon in this generation are slow and weak?
this is the generation of regional variations, it's actually really meta
compared to pokemon in other areas of the world, sure, the alola pokemon are slow and weak. however within their own ecosystem everything is within proportion to everything else

in a land of things rarely able to break 70 speed, being a 100 speed makes you the fastest around. Why would you need to go faster?

>>30751390
He was talking about VGC. People already used a few Incineroars in the London championships despite it not having Intimidate yet.

>>30751835
Well, Incineroar could work given it has good bulk and Darkest Lariat

>>30751835
>Delphox and Chesnaught aren't high tiers

>Somehow thought that the next starters were being planned on being great

I'm not understanding this train of thought.

>Decidueye looked like a Greninja style fast sweeper

Kek. How?! Past generations have proven that looks are deceiving and can't be trusted, as well as Pokedex entries.

>>30752314
I mean sure Delphox and Chesnaught were shit but Greninja was literally Ubers. And megas made plenty of other shit starters actually viable. Not too unreasonable to think maybe they'd try making all the starters good this time.

Also Greninja and Decidueye just have very similar things going for them. They start off kinda as nerdy goofs in their first stages and turn into warriors with signature moves that even had weapons made of their main types. Many figured it'd get the Greninja treatment

>>30750234

If by 500 you mean upwards of 14,000, sure

>>30752482
Chesnaught made it in UU, it's pretty good. Would've been Gen OU easily. Hell Delphox is pretty good too, it just has a shit movepool.

>>30752543
>Delphox is literally a mage
>can't learn Thunderbolt or Ice Beam
Come on, GF.

Incineroar is one of the best starters in doubles because of Intimidate + Fake Out and Primarina looks very viable in UU because of its massive special stats (highest offensive stat of any non mega evolved starter last I checked) and good typing

Decidueye is that one Pokemon fanboys try hard to make good but actually isn't that good

>>30752482
>Also Greninja and Decidueye just have very similar things going for them. They start off kinda as nerdy goofs in their first stages and turn into warriors with signature moves that even had weapons made of their main types. Many figured it'd get the Greninja treatment

Decidueyefags crack me up. They thought Decidueye would get the "Greninja treatment" just because THEY LIKED IT.

Greninja and Decidueye don't seem similar at all. This just sounds like Decidueye fags deluding themselves into thinking this to be true.

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>>30750220
>the leaked fake looked cool
Your opinion is fucking irrelevant

>>30752662
Look I know you don't like the "numale owl" or whatever but it certainly wasn't unreasonable to think it would happen. I didn't even pick Rowlet or plan to back before the game came out but I 100% thought it'd be GF's new toy

>>30752621
And yet decidueye is still the most used because it actually has a niche.

>>30752621
>Decidueye is that one Pokemon fanboys try hard to make good but actually isn't that good

Holy shit this! Didn't the same thing happen with Charizard before?

>>30752747
On what ladder? What statistics are you using? Pre-bank OU?

>>30752870
Decidueye is OU in Prebank, but drops to UU Postbank. Even if it really is "forced" it's still somewhat impressive considering this Gen's UU is basically last gen's OU