RIP Landorus http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread s/landorus

Thats one down.

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> Carring about a Stupid corrupted unofficial concil

Just a question, does cresselia rise up the usage rankings or sink into obscurity now?

>>30704188
so what's keeping genesect and hoopa down?

I get that people aren't having as much issue with greninja now that celesteela and toxapex are around but I thought we'd see genesect on its way out by now

>>30704188
>Cubone used Ice Beam
Smogon being Smogon again.

Thank fuck

>>30704229
You can always hide a thread that discusses a topic you don't like, Anon. No need to get so worked up.

>>30704278
Genesect needs to leave. I hope Hoopa is here to stay seeing as there are a lot of bugs this gen to keep him checked.

>>30704298
When everyone online follows these stupid rules, then it's hard to ignore. When your friends don't want to battle because "muh smogon", then it fucking affects us. These idiotic bans need to fucking stop. If they're going to be unofficially official, then they need to stop.

>>30704286
XDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ebin maymay take le my upvote good sir
*tips harambe*

>>30704347
But Smogon doesn't force anyone to follow their rules. If your friends refuse to battle you then that's just your friends being autistic.

>>30704365
It's a legitimate argument. Everyone and their mom gets Ice Beam as a TM move. Tons of counters to this Pokemon. I think people need to fucking git gud instead of banning everything.
*sigh* It's no use talking to children.

>>30704347
Then find a community that doesn't battle with smog on rules

Literally complaining here is pointless and you sound like a shifty friend to have anyways

>>30704446
>*sigh*

>>30704347
Custom Game exists if you want to battle your bud on your own terms moron.

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YES


GENIES FINALLY FUCKING GASSED

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>>30704446
>*sigh*

>>30704446
No, it's not a legitimate argument. Having a quadruple weakness is a flaw, but far from crippling, especially if the pokemon is that good to begin with. Just some random shitter with Ice Beam isn't a counter.

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>>30704481
But no one wants to follow my superior terms. I could do a better job than Smogon. It's funny how its name is Smogon. It's very toxic to the Pokemon community.

>>30704446
Maybe if you checked the link instead of being a filthy memer, you'd know the reason it was banned

>First and foremost, we recognize that Landorus-Incarnate is not invincible. With a double weakness to Ice and an average speed of 101, fast Pokémon such as Greninja, Pheromosa or Tapu Koko can outspeed it and easily revenge kill it without a problem.

>However, with an arsenal of powerful attacks composed of Earth Power, Focus Blast, Sludge Wave, Psychic, Hidden Power Ice, Knock Off and Rock Slide, combined to amazing offensive stats (125 Atk / 115 SpA) and the ability Sheer Force that gives it a recoil-free Life Orb boost, Landorus-I is absolutely unpredictable.

>Worse, it also learns moves such as Calm Mind or Rock Polish, allowing it to fulfill a late game sweeper role, in addition of being a terrifying strike force against any form of stall.

>Indeed, countering Landorus-I is quite the tremendous challenge. Only 2 non-Ubers Pokémon in the game are capable to achieve this major feat :
>Cresselia, whose viability in the OU metagame is close to non-existent despite its very high defenses.
>Mega-Latias, which is not even distributed in-game and therefore, is unavailable.

>>30704278
Genesect will be next man

>the OU council

imagine being on it, how powerful you must be

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>tfw I will never see this thing on OU teams anymore

>>30704532
Just play anything goes then retard.
>I could do a better job than Smogon.
Really?
>It's very toxic to the Pokemon community.
No, what's toxic is shitters like you that sperg out about an unnoficial format that no one is forcing you to play at every opportunity you get.

>>30704533
.KEK
>UNPREDICTABLE
Okay Smogon. Let's ban all RNG related things. Only moves with no secondary effects allowed now I guess! NO SWITCHING, because UNPREDICTABLE!!!

Let's have just 6 Pokemon you're allowed to use. Because it'll make things PREDICTABLE. They're centralizing the metagame. Sad.

>>30704188
Okay pretty cool when is Jirachi getting banned from UU?

>>30704562

I'd be too tempted to ban things from OU for shits and giggles and would be kicked out after a day.

Genesect next please

>>30704636
>implying that's now what they do

They're all autistic children. Of course they'll be swift to use the ban hammer.

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>>30704610
Jeez anon, what an amazing and well thought out argument you have there! Why weren't you arguing these flawless opinions on the ban discussion thread instead of shitposting on /vp/?

>>30704610
Nice nitpicking. Unpredictable is just one of the things that Landorus is. Nothing is gonna get banned just for being unpredictable. If it was, then Smeargle would be banned.

Hoopa-U better stay in OU this gen.

>>30704635
The tier has to exist before you can ban something from it.

>>30704347
>everyone online
Are you telling me people on Battlespot 3v3 singles or 4v4 doubles follow these rules? Battle Royal?
>my friends
either stop trying to get wins with stupid broken shit, get friends who allow you to bend the rules like using blaze blaziken, or get better friends

>>30704662
Because no one can change a child's mind. Plus, I'm not autistic enough to go on Smogon. They'll probably ban me for not agreeing with them.

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>>30704532
>I could do a better job than Smogon
Please enlighten us, wise anon. What clauses/bans would you do?

>>30704660

No I'd ban shit like Dunsparce just because I could.

>>30704712
>They'll probably ban me for not agreeing with them.
You do realize Smogon isn't a hive mind right? Plenty of users agree with the decisions made, and plenty disagree.

Any good new Little Cup mons this gen?

>>30704188
>the OU council
Gets me every time. How sad.

>>30704785
What name would you give them big boy?

>>30704784
Mudbray is solid
Sandshrew-A and Grimer-A are okay
Cutiefly just got banned

>>30704815
Certainly not "council". Makes it sound important.

>>30704347
Pokemon is not a healthy game to try to play competitively. No part of it is balanced, and any serious attempt to do so degenerates into either mirror matches with broken pokemon or smogon style tier and rule lists you're expected to abide by.

Either abide by community rules, play with broken pokemon and enjoy a shitty experience, or stop playing. Those are your options for being in love with a terrible game series. Deal with it.

>>30704666
Okay. Fair enough. Let me dissect the rest of the argument. I mean. I stopped reading at "unpredictable" because of how stupid it was.
>Focus Blast.
Nice meme. 70% Accuracy, oh boy!

>"being a terrifying strike force against any form of stall.

Holy shit! Smogon really loves their stall! I thought it was a meme at first. But they're really trying to make the meta based on stall.

>"countering Landorus-I is quite the tremendous challenge"
You say this, yet provide no valid reasoning behind it.

There. Smogon is shit. Banning for unpredictability and going against their stall agenda.

>>30704838
It's important within the community.

>>30704784
Mudbray is absurd. It'll most likely get banned soon.

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>>30704855

>>30704815
OU Powwow

>>30704815
OU Committee

It's not implying they are the voice of god that way.

>>30704897
That's literally just a different way to spell the word "council", though.

>>30704784
Type: Null will be autobanned I assume

Male only and Gender Unknown LC mons now have access to their full movepool

Wingull, Roggenrola, and Cubchoo have new abilities

Woobat got buffed stats because I think GF is retarded and got it mixed up with Swoobat

>>30704944
>Type: Null will be autobanned I assume
It's not legal because it can't exist at level 5

But yeah it would be auto-banned

>>30704939
I disagree. They can be interchangeable terms but culture has dictated certain perceived connotations of one versus the other.

>>30704713
>No tier system
>Point System
>Pokemon cost "points"
>Better Pokemon, higher Cost
>Max of X Points allowed in a team.
>Sleep Clause gone
>Evasion clause gone
>Swagger clause stays
>Baton Pass allowed

>>30705006
Wasn't there a simulator a few years ago that had that point system? Didn't it die? Also, not having Sleep or Evasion clause is fucking retarded.

>>30704854
>Nice meme. 70% Accuracy, oh boy!
And yet it remains a widely used move. Don't forget about the Sheer Force Boost too.
>Holy shit! Smogon really loves their stall! I thought it was a meme at first. But they're really trying to make the meta based on stall.
Smogon is trying to make every playstyle viable, including stall. Plenty of things that help stall get banned (Zygarde-C anyone). The "Smogon loves stall XDDDDDD" is nothing but a meme perpterated by shitters that lost to a stall team.
>You say this, yet provide no valid reasoning behind it.
Have you even read the post? It provides all the necessary calculations to show you how absurd it is.

>>30705006
>no tier system
It's shit

>>30705006
Swagger stays but not evasion?

What are you smoking?

>>30704854

Hey, how long have you been playing comp?

>>30704854
>tfw a mon is being used on nearly every team
>sweeps through practically anything you throw at it
>easily sets up
>next to no mons, if any, can take a hit and kill it back
>tfw the best you can do is switch and hope it doesn't set up or kill your counter
>tfw the second best you can do is beg for RNG
Top kek, my friend. I too loved this thing in OU :^)

I was thinking of making a hail team and I kinda want to slot Vanillux in there somewhere, how does this set look?

Vanilluxe @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Autotomize
- Ice Shard
- Freeze-Dry
- Flash Cannon

>>30705092
Looks cool to me

>>30705077
Make a better team.

>>30705092
I would just scarf it, shitty defensive typing doesn't give it many chances to set up

>>30705114
>implying that's not what people already do
>implying it shouldn't have been banned
Top fucking kek

>>30705006
>No tier system
Why? I bet you're one of those people that spouts "but smogon doesnt want you to use your brossss WHAAAAA". If there was no tier, you would just see the same team every single game. What's the fucking point?
>Point System
>Pokemon cost "points"
>Better Pokemon, higher Cost
>Max of X Points allowed in a team.
Terrible idea.
>Sleep Clause gone
>Evasion clause gone
Also terrible ideas, especially the evasion clause. Sleep clause can go, if only to see how the meta changes.
>Baton Pass allowed
Baton Pass is allowed, there are just restrictions on what you can do with it.

>>30705040
Sleep's been nerfed.
Grass Pokemon immune to Spore.
Dark Void a shit
Darkrai would cost a shit ton of points to use anyway.
Sleep moves have shit accuracy
Insomnia, Taunt, Comatose.

>>30705141
Scarf with HP Ground or something then?

>>30704188
>"the OU council"

How can anyone take this seriously? Can they really not just call themselves "the team" or whatever?

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>>30705092
Looks alright, but coverage or power would probably help more than priority.

>>30705114
What if they want to use their bros, anon? Are you saying they can't and should just use whatever is OP?

>>30705092
You should use Nintales as your hail setter. You also get aurora veil.

>>30705190
that or HP Fire, depending on whether your team is weaker to Scizor or Heatran

>>30705006
>Better Pokemon, higher Cost
And who will determine that? You would be literally telling people what's good and what's not and from what I understand that's your main problem with Smogon

>>30705159
It's only a terrible idea because an OU whore like you wouldn't be able to OU whore.

>>30705220
Please see >>30705209

>>30705209
Well it's an undeniable fact. Some Pokemon are better than others. Your shitty bromons just have more viability in this system.

>>30705220
Do you even realize the implications of what your proposing? How would you determine the amount of points something costs? Doesn't that create a tier system in itself? And what the hell does "OU whoring" even mean?

>>30705273
You're completely right. That's why Smogon is so good, all mons can shine in the tier they belong in.

>>30705220
>>30705273
What? Assigning Pokemon points is literally giving them tiers. The only difference is you can't play the tiers individually, making it shittier and less diverse.

>>30705315
>Greninja to Ubers
Wow. From riches to rags. Now he's just setting up spikes. He didn't belong there.

>>30705191
Why does it bother you so much?

>>30705273
>Your shitty bromons just have more viability in this system.
No they don't. Karenfags still haven't figured out that Smogon is the best system for them huh? Even if your bro is shit, it actually has some chance of being viable in some tier.

>>30704446
>*sigh*

I was with you until that. Kill yourself reddit.

>>30705201
Yeah I usually use 2 weather setters for an offensive weather like hail, my team looks like this I'm not great and mostly play with gimmicks after getting burnt out in XY OU

http://pastebin.com/PMZTkZK2

>>30705058
I doubt he has ever played comp

>>30705323
No, it makes it more diverse. You can't Uberwhore/OUwhore. You'd have to think about spending the points wisely. Do you want a balanced team of 6? or do you want a OU whore team of 3 + 2 shitmons?

>>30705346
And he didn't belong in OU either. Ubers remains a banlist.

>>30705346
Your bro was too good for OU, deal with it.

>>30704446
Yeah, Rayquazza has a x4 weakness to ice too so I guess it should be OU? Maybe UU just to be safe.

>>30705396
No, it'd make it less diverse. Tiers are much more fun. A system once tried the point method and it was undeniably shite. The same 3 teams were used all the time, it was fucking garbage. And who decides points? The "Point" Council?

>>30705006
Tiers determined by usage is effective because it's simple. If something has below 3.41% usage, it goes down a . If it's too OP for that tier, it goes to BL/BL2/etc.

Points system is too complex. I mean, who determines how many points a pokemon is worth? If a pokemon is too strong for how many points it's worth, how many more points are added to it? What prevents someone from making a team of one super high point mon and five low point but synergistic pokemon?

Points system could theoretically be better, but I think it'd be too complicated to pull off.

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>>30704610
Well, the point is that due to its ability to run any set imaginable, you can't know what the pokemon plans to do. This makes it impossible to know how the enemy plans to use it. Some of this in the metagame is healthy and makes the game interesting. However, a healthy level of unpredictability is, "I didn't see that coming, I lost [1 or 2] pokemon! He has a big advantage now."

An unhealthy level of predictability happens when it is paired with an egregiously strong pokemon. Instead of, "I lost [1 or 2]," it's "He sent out Lando-I. If I predict its completely random set incorrectly, of which there are about 6 sets, then I automatically lose the game. If I waste just 1 turn with the wrong prediction, I lose automatically."
That's not fun or fair. It's not a good thing that the game-determinant is whatever random Lando-I set the enemy brought and whether you predict it, in a completely random fashion.

We play pokemon, so we like and expect a little bit of randomness. That makes the game interesting and fun, and leads to some crazy moments we will remember for a long time. However, it's different when the entire battle is determined by what amounts to the roll of a 6 sided die.

Even if you predict the 1/5 or 1/6 dice roll correctly, at which the odds are against you, your victory is to have a marginal chance at dispatching 1 of the enemy's field pokemon. That's it, and he has 5 more.

I hope that helps you understand why landorus-I is too powerful to be allowed for a fun game.

>>30705353
It doesn't bother me, it just sounds super silly. It reminds me of when me and my friends would pretend to be members of the Council of Arcane Might when we were kids.

You don't call yourself a "council" unless you're roleplaying or you're jerking yourself off. "OU team" or "OU moderation staff" would not only sound way more official and not-silly, it would also just flat-out sound better.

>>30705430
Oh yeah. You're comparing Mewtwo to fucking Caterpie. Nice comparison.

>>30705396
I don't understand how being an "OU whore" is a bad thing. Why should players be discouraged from using Pokemon that are good in the metagame they are playing?

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>>30704188
why do people treat whatever smogon says as the word of god?

>>30705006
>no tier system
>creates what is essentially a tier system

>>30705516
>why do people treat whatever smogon says as the word of god?
Who does this? Who said this?

>>30705453
Apparently it does bother you, because you brought it up. If they operate as a council, which they do, then I don't see the issue with calling themselves a council.

>>30705516
Literally nobody does that though?

>>30705464
>Landorus and Mewtwo
>Both strong mons
>Both legendaries
>Both Uber
In an attempt to call his comparison shit, yours was instead.

>>30705444
Well I wasn't there to see it. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to make it work if I had the opportunity to be there when it was alive.

>>30704188
Who gives a shit?

>>30704533
>we banned it to save stall

also when did smogon ever give a fuck about things being available ingame?

>>30705540
Not you apparently, which makes me wonder why you are in this thread.

>>30705540
People that play Smogon.

>>30705560
They've always cared. As long as there was some way to obtain it, no matter the odds, you can use it.

>>30705569
>Not you apparently, which makes me wonder why you are in this thread.
(You)s

>>30705006
congrats, you invented draft

Honestly I really started caring about Smogon thanks to the hoards of people who hate it. Now I'm a fully-fledged stallfag.

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>>30705006
Yes, this point system is great. I like that idea a lot! Now, to determine how many points each pokemon is worth, we must create a system by which to rank them competitively against each other! Let us start a democratic process by which the best one-thousand battlers vote on the rankings and viability of all of the pokemon, and then divide them into discrete "groupings" based on each pokemon's viability!

The only problem is that we need a web domain or other public forum by which to discuss these things. Hmm, this will take a while and is very hard to do! I wish someone had thought of something like this before now! Well, a man can dream!

>>30705560
Since forever? Hell, there was a glitch called "Acid Rain" that Smogon purposefully put into the simulator just to make it as genuine and close to the cartridge game as possible.

>>30705536
More like
>Landorus and Mewtwo
>1 Weak Mon with shit speed and a x4 weakness, 1 Strong mon
>Both Legendaries (Doesn't mean anything?)
>One rightfully deserves to be in Ubers, the other was sent to Ubers by the Stall Council

>>30705591
what about pokebank?

>>30705396
or you know people would just minmax their points and use the same few compositions anyways

>>30705634
What do you mean? There's an OU and a PokeBank OU.

>>30704229
Verlis pls go

>>30705615
I have an idea for a domain name: Dogars!

It's the japanese word for Koffing, and I honestly love how it looks. It can be the mascot of the new Dogars Forums!

>>30705615
The democratic process is shit. Never let children vote for anything.

>>30705006
>no tier system
>except this tier system which is more complex, harder to manage, and easier to abuse

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>>30705634
All stuff which will be in the game, also not the official format at the moment, PrePokebank is.

>>30705622
>Landorus
>Weak
>Pic related

>>30704188
Why'd Aegislash get banned again?

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>fan made meme formats

>>30705656
Wow, that is brilliant! I am so glad that we had this idea!

>>30705622
>1 Weak Mon with shit speed
Since when have base 101 speed and an effective special attack of 230 been "weak"?

>>30705450
healthy unpredictability: oh shit, its running hp ground instead of shadow ball? that's a neat metagame adaptation/way to patch a hole in your team composition

unhealthy: i can run literally six different attacking moves and hidden power viably, with over half of those permutations being viable

one of these is porygon z

one of these is landorus

>>30705361
It's not too bad I guess.

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ou-494987918

>>30705696
101 isn't amazing anymore in this meta.

>>30705707
It's still good enough for what it does.

>>30705658
Every system is bad in its own way. Democratic is the fairest. It's also not like American voting where every retard's opinion counts just as much as a nobel prize winning economist's opinion: only the top ranked players earn a chance to vote. They prove they know what they are talking about by demonstrating that on the ladder. It's not just any random fuck-o kid who signs on that gets any say in the voting process.

>>30705685
Gee I dunno

>>30705740
No. The top people just know what they hate. They're gonna be autists and do what's best for THEMSELVES. And wow. Letting the 1% v has never gone terribly! GENIUS!

>>30705741
"Unpredictability" and because it was Anti-Stall.

>>30704833
Porygon also got banned because of z conversion

Which is stupid ad they could have just banned the move itself

>>30704688
/thread

>>30705792
>it was Anti-Stall.

It was anti-everything

>>30705792
Aegislash was anti-everything. Stop blaming everything on "muh stall bogeyman".

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>>30705770
So you have a problem with a large group of people voting and you also have a problem with a large group of people being denied rights to voting in favor of only experts voting.

Do you want to propose a system that you don't hate?

Like I said, any system has problems, but we choose the best system while trying to minimize the downsides. That's pragmatism. If you're still in your edgy teen romantic-idealism phase, real life won't be able to serve you.

>>30704532
Smogon is an attempt by humans to balance the singles metagame of pokemon. The tiers are based on usage or basicaly how good of a niche that pokemon fills.

Now if your favorite mon is in UU then be sad just use UU or under mons on your team in the ladder faggot.

OU is where the cheapest easily spammed mons go, these mon are usually so cancerous that they wreck any metagame that isnt Ubers creating pointless centralization and ruining everything thus they are banned to OU unti their usage becomes too awfful to be in OU.

If you want to test you skills, play in NU because the teams in RU and NU are very unpredictable so it will keep you on your toes rather than boring Ubers or OU.

>>30704446
>4x weaknesses
>Ever mattering

Fucking Garchomp stayed in Ubers for the longest time even after Ice Shard was introduced.

It dropped down to OU near the end of Gen V.

Landorus on the other hand can literally one-shot a Garchomp @ Yache Berry with an Ice Fang. Take that in for moment.

Weavile can't even do that with it's Stab on Icicle Crash.

Who do you think gets the boot next? I'm thinking Genesect.

>>30705792
One move basically let it have pseudo 720 bst, protect and a physical attacker neuter all in one. Not to mention that its sub toxic set was absolute cancer to play against, if you lose the coin toss you're fucked completely

>>30705844
A system created by TPC themselves would be ideal. Too bad they can't even fix VGC. They won't ever touch Singles.

>>30705925
Probably that or Hoopa-U

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>>30705770
>Letting the 1% v has never gone terribly!
Name a time where that happened. You imply that you know many examples.

Doesn't Celesteela counter every Lando-I set now?

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>>30705963
>A system created by TPC themselves would be ideal.
Mmm, no it wouldn't. They have demonstrated their incompetence innumerable times.

If you want the pokemon company to run your singles as well then have fun with mega rayquaza, primal groudon, and primal kyogre being legal for your format. Not so fun, is it? Oh, what's that, you prefer actually using things other than mega kangaskhan and primal kyogre every game? Welp too bad, this is the future you chose.

>>30704533
I'll make things even clearer with some math.

For the sake of math, we'll assume the only Hidden Power you would ever run on Landorus-I is HP Ice.

Lando-I has seven moves to choose from: Earth Power, Focus Blast, Sludge Wave, Psychic, HP Ice, Knock Off, and Rock Slide.

Even assuming you would always run Earth Power, as it's STAB, that leaves us with six moves and three slots.

Using an nCr calculation, where C is the number of unique combinations of set n with subset r number of elements being chosen from it, we see that C(6,3) = 20.

Landorus-I has twenty different moveset combinations assuming HP Ice is the only HP and Earth Power is always in the set.

That's twenty different movesets every player has to prepare for. At that point there's no way to reasonably predict until you've seen 3/4 moves. You're playing moveset roulette, and if you guess wrong you lost a Pokemon.

>>30705987
No, or else Skarmory would have dealt fine with Lando in past gens too.

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hey mr smogon is it my turn to play in ubers yet

>>30706197
Never ever

>>30706197
Might take a while, it's checked by a lot of pokemon right now

>>30705925
They are banning old pokemon before new ones so I'd also say that Genesect it's a safe bet for the next ban

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>>30704188

>>30705006
alright I use a megafug and 5 magikarp

if you used anything resembling a balanced point use I have already won so you're going to have to pool your points into a single 'mon that can beat megafug or else into your own megafug

>>30705925
genesect, hoopau, maybe greninja? is protean greninja still banned> is just the ash-greninja unbanned?

>>30705634
i didn't realize pokebank allowed you to transfer megastones, or items at all

>>30706316
inefficient, outdated and demonstratively better than the alternative?

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>>30706078
>twenty different possible movesets
>it gets worse if people get an ounce of creativity and use other HP types

why'd we even unban it?

>>30705707
You know the original comparison was with Rayquaza, who only has base 95 speed, right?

>>30706613
It gets Dragon Dance and a strong priority move.

>>30705707
.t someone who has never tried to make sub-100 speed mons work without trick room or stall

>>30706643
lanny gets rock polish for speed boosts

>>30706643
Landorus can Rock Polish

>>30705464
Uh actually it's a legitimate argument. Everyone and their mom gets ice beam and rayquazza only has a base 95 speed. Tons of counters to this Pokemon. I think you need to fucking git gud instead of arbitrarily defining what is and isn't strong.

*sigh* It's no use talking to retards.

>>30706678
>>30706684
Yeah, but it doesn't get the Attack boost.

>>30706881
Huh. That's a legitimate argument you got there. I actually agree with you. Rayquaza to OU, anyone?

>>30706957
so a special rayquaza would be OU viable?

>>30706957
It can Swords Dance, Bulk Up, or Calm Mind with it if it wants.

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>>30706881
>*sigh*

>>30707076
This^. I've personally never liked double dance sets on anything, but Landorus was a viable user of it.

>>30706078
Even more than that is that gets setup moves like Calm Mind and Rock Polish giving it late game sweeping potential, so if your plan to be landorus is just to revenge kill it, then you may be in for a surprise.

Simply ban all legends and UBs, even the shitty ones.

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>>30705006
>no evasion clause

>>30708843
It's fair because aerial ace

>>30705925
pheromosa

>>30708866
How is that still funny?

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I will rule OU and nobody will stop me

>>30705006
Oh christ, you're that retard from years ago, aren't you? I think your name was Dunsparce?

>>30705006
> no tiers
>point system
>better pokemon, higher points
How in the living fuck would you do this with no tier system?

Here's your (You) asshole

>>30709044
>Pikachu used Quick Attack!

>>30706197
The new toy syndrome is wearing off, Phero is strong, but it's clear that it's stopped by more thing then before, particularly Maro and Toxa that are just growing in popularity. Genesect and Protean Greninja have a higher chance of a ban.

>>30704446
Name one Pokemon that can safely switch into Landorus-I with being severely crippled

>>30704670
It won't. Especially after Pheromone gets banned.

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>>30709537

>>30709867
Cresselia

>>30709262
>it's not a tier system if I refer to it with a different word
That's basically his arguement

>>30709867
It's called "PREDICTING". Most of his moves have immunities.
>Earth Power
Flying
>Sludge Wave
Steel
>Focus Blast
Ghost
>Psychic
Dark
It's not hard to outsmart Landorus.

>>30704670
I would love to see that because fuck stall, but it'll be gone in the next 3 months unfortunately.

>>30704188

maybe in Gen 8, they'll finally keep it in Ubers.

>>30710014

You're correct but then you'd be using Cresselia in OU.

>>30710276
And what's wrong with that? Being a OU whore doesn't make you good. A team with good synergy does.

>>30705006
>Points system for teams
This is the type of shit you only think is good when you're 15.
Who decides how many points each Pokemon get?
What criteria is the point system based on?
What happens when a low point Pokemon becomes really good because of team structures? And when it is found to be great because of how little points it takes up, do you decrease it even more, making it better, or make it have take up too many points, making it a shitmon that takes up a lot of points?
Who keeps track of this shit when teambuilding?

>>30710328
>And what's wrong with that?

I literally just said why. You'd be using Cresselia in OU, that's the fucking problem with it.

>b-but Magnezone

Magnezone can at least check and/or counter other steel types or act as a slow pivot. Cresselia's only role in OU would be to counter Lando-I and then proceed to get bodied by the 50 other Pokemon in OU.

>>30710133
>they predict the switch and use something neutral or SE to whatever you're switching into

>>30710526
That's why you analyze the opponent's play style first. There's more to Pokemon than just the Pokemon. Plus, you can easily predict a Pokemon's moveset by the opponent's team composition.

>>30710588
So what if you do make the correct choice and Landorus doesn't hit your Pokemon immune to one, maybe two of its moves? What's the next step in your master plan?

>>30710133
Good. Now I'll remember to bring those four specific types to my every team and switch them around to stall Landos PP and assume my opponent is stupid enough to not predict

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>>30707163
>>30709044
>tfw using Ash-Greninja
>tfw never had a problem because MIZU SHURIKEN with specs/life orb


>mfw having enough counters for BURASTU BAAN
>after damaging it a little, water shuriken is sure kill anyway
>252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 192-228 (64.6 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>mfw no one realized yet how stupid late-game cleaner it is


Still no fucking idea how Ash lost with it

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>>30710588
>That's why you analyze the opponent's play style first
I make many decisions with literal coinflips just because of shitters like you who think there's skill in pokemon.

>>30710133
Here's an idea.
Your opponent can also fucking predict themselves.
>You switch into Levitate Gengar (rip) to avoid Earthpower
>They use Knock off
>You have Gliscor out, so you predict the HP Ice and switch Weavile in
>Earthpower Bitch
I remember when I was younger and said "just predict the moves". Then I became 5 and became better with logic skills.
Landorus-I has the upper hand if it gets on a Pokemon that can't fight it. Once it is in there, you have to either predict what move Landorus is going to use, or risk having your current Pokemon die (if not have it be guaranteed to die anyways). Landorus, after switching in, does not have that risk. If you out predicted your opponent, it doesn't mean all that much, especially early game. Your opponent out predicting you means one of your teammates are dead with how powerful Landorus's offenses are.

How is it fair to let a Pokemon make a 50/50 for you without a complex set up that screws you over, while they stay pretty safe from harm?

>>30710133
hey shithead how you gonna predict it when it can run 20 different sets

some other autist did the math here >>30706078

>>30710983
There are other Pokemon that can run twice as many movesets. He doesn't take into account that some of those movesets are shit. Some moves just don't pair well with each other.

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>>30710983
Mew.

>>30705925
Phero, genesect, lele, Hoopa-U, maybe greninja, maybe toxapex
In that order too, screencap this

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>>30711149
Oh look, it's this guy.

>>30711038
name ten movesets out of
>Earth Power, Focus Blast, Sludge Wave, Psychic, HP Ice, Knock Off, and Rock Slide
that aren't viable. protip: you can't

and even if you could it would still have ten fucking viable movesets
>>30711149
has one, maybe two viable movesets because despite every tm hm meme its base stats and typing mean all it does well involves defog, willowisp, healing, taunt, and knock off/psychic so its not pure taunt bait

>>30711292
Lele won't get banned. Half of its usage is to setup for Phero. It gets hopelessly walled by Steel unless it runs HP Fire, which hits like a limp noodle.

Isn't it stupid that sheer forces negates the negative effect of life orb.. so weird

>>30711553
Specs focus blast is actually good if you give two shits about prediction.

Yes I know it sounds silly but it fucking works.

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>>30711314
Little did they know, I'm the one who's been posting shit.

>>30710588
>>30705006
>>30704854
>>30704446

: )

Feels good getting all these (You)s

Real 'reasons' why Genie was banned, translated by yours truly:

>However, with an arsenal of powerful attacks composed of Earth Power, Focus Blast, Sludge Wave, Psychic, Hidden Power Ice, Knock Off and Rock Slide, combined to amazing offensive stats (125 Atk / 115 SpA) and the ability Sheer Force that gives it a recoil-free Life Orb boost, Landorus-I is absolutely unpredictable.

>WE CAN'T SCOUT SHIT

>Worse, it also learns moves such as Calm Mind or Rock Polish, allowing it to fulfill a late game sweeper role, in addition of being a terrifying strike force against any form of stall.

>BREAKS STALL

I also find it funny 'Pokebank' is a meta at all. Like fuck you, if they want a healthy meta they should use the moves that could only be learnt in Gen VII games, disallowing all the crap you could learn from previous generations. There you have half the "OH NO THEY LEARN SO MANY THINGS IT'S UNPREDICTABLE" problem solved for you. At least, until Gen VII introduces move tutors.

Full Dex, moves that can't be learn in Gen VII are disallowed, same with unobtainable items. There you have an easier to balance meta. But nooo, let's allow X pokemon to use Y move because it could learnt it on Generation III :^)

>>30712327
Agreed. : )

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>>30705315
>Mega Mawile in ubers

>>30712327
ur trash. try beating any good player that uses lando-i with one of your trash teams. see how much fun you have when you realize you can't switch into it.

complaining about pokebank existing is the same thing this idiot >>30712375
thinks is good, how else would we use our bros if we're restricted? Why not just play the game the way you want and let others play the way they want.

>>30705092
>Not using that stone that extends hail time

>>30712526
It makes no sense including past gens in Gen VII meta. If it's supposed to be a simulator, then it should be as close as what's currently possible in CURRENT GEN.

Meaning, only Pokemon bred and caught in Gen VII should be allowed.

It'd fix a ton of problems and really make everything easier for Smogon. People would be able to use their bromon again in OU like Greninja.

>>30712492

Ubers is a banlist first and a tier second so viability in Uber's, BL, 2, and 3 don't matter.

>>30712631
It stopped being a banlist when AG was made. A banlist for a banlist. kek.

>>30712629
>Meaning, only Pokemon bred and caught in Gen VII should be allowed

So go play VGC rules.

Smogon's ruleset applies if two people sitting right next to each other did a 6v6 link battle.

>>30712526
Where's your reading comprehension. Full dex ALLOWED, but MOVES that the mon can't learn in Gen VII is not.

Let's say your bro is Charizard, you sound like the common retard that likes muh dragon, if you check its entry here: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/006.shtml

You can see there's a session called "Transfer Only Moves". Those are the moves that should not be allowed. And ta-da, suddenly half the dex have problematics moves taken away, as well as wide movepools.

>>30705006
>your whole team can be slept
wew

>>30712655

I just said that. But Smogon isn't going to allow certain Ubers into OU just because they happen to suck shit in Ubers, because Ubers is a banlist first, and a tier list second.

>>30712663
But Smogon's shit is so fucked right now. It needs to be fixed. I like the IDEA of Smogon itself. But their execution is god awful.

>>30712724
Since Smogon likes to add BLs all the time. Why not make current BL into BL2 and make BL where Mawile, Greninja, and Aegislash belong. They'd technically still be in Ubers, but it'd be enough to satisfy me.

>>30712805
Ubers is a "BL" that grew large enough if you think it carefully.

Border Line can also be called Ban list. The point is that those mons broke the balance of the usage based tiers, so they get put on a banlist and scratched up of usage.

Ubers is a banlist and has zero shits to give about usage, so tell me bro, Why on earth would you create a BL between usage and non usage play?.

>>30712908
So my autistic side can be happy

>>30712631
What happened to "That's why Smogon is so good, all mons can shine in the tier they belong in."?

My bro (sis actually cause literally a female) is clearly NOT shining in the tier it "belongs" in

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>>30712994
HOLY SHIT
Smogonfags BTFO

>>30712994

Because you can play Battle Spot Singles, VGC or some gimmick tier Smogon created and they'll play just fine there.

>>30712994
All mons can shine in the tier they belong in if they stall.

If they are not defensive mons, and god forbid, they have wide movepools, they'll get ban.

The ridiculous bans that started in Gen V and corruption makes me believe even pokemon like Nidoking will get ban because its movepool its wider than Tsareena's hips, and even though it has average stats and glaring weaknesses, they'll hire a poet to state how powerful Nidoking is and bum, banned to be as useful as Mawile in ubers.

>>30712971
As much as Smogon caters to us the Karenfags, anti evasion autists and druddigon huggers of America there is just no freaking reason to create a borderline between usage and non usage play.

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>>30713110
kek.
Oh and you're right.
Smogon is basically doing pic related, but putting it in a smarter sounding style. You can make any Pokemon sound good on paper, which is what they did with Landorus-I.

>>30704229
>corrupted

How does a Pokemon fan council become corrupted? Do they take bribes from stall players?

>>30713238
They make it so that only their bromons are viable. The stall agenda is real, guys.

Smogon = Koffing
Koffing ---> Weezing
Weezing = Stall

WAKE UP, MAREEPLE

>>30713043
So in order to use my bro, you're telling me to play things that aren't Smogon. Ergo, Smogon is good for nothing.

Glad we got that cleared up

>>30713238
They let post to be edited despite rules indicating you can't edit votes. They hide those editions.

If a poll is going 'wrong' a sudden flush happens right before the deadline to turn it around.

Everyone who remembers how Aegislash (I think it was this one) got banned remembers how corrupted everything was. Guys who posted evidence such as screencaps got banned, guys who questioned in the chat rooms got muted. Even Smogonsword haters called that poll bullshit.

There were other cases, before and after, but that one was the most blatant one that everyone remembers.

>>30713277


>or some gimmick tier Smogon created

Also Showdown has VGC rules and Battle Spot rules.

>>30713199
Except Landorus I is stupid good vs two play styles.

Freaking use it, even if it gets revenge killed he is still the MVP of most matches by crippling wathever could have stopped my sweep, in all honesty it feels like a trapper once you slow u turn him in or pull a double switch, something is fucked no matter how hard the other player tries to predict.

>>30713110
>le "smogon loves stall xd" meme

are you fucking stupid? Mons like Mega Lucario, Mawile and Aegislash punish hyper offense and offensively inclined play styles because they can't switch into the offensive powerhouse

Stall has answers against those mons, meaning that Gamefreak retarded balancing makes players resort to stall in order to stop those offensive power houses. That's the fucking reason they stopped supporting singles, because they're a retarded bunch that can't balance for shit.

If Smogon loved stall so fucking much shit like Swagger would have never been banned, Boo Boo keys with Prankster was the epitome of stall. If Smogon loved stall so fucking much they wouldn't have banned Lugia and Mega-Sableye - one of them the most retardedly stupid wall in the entire game and the other one an easy answer against hyper offensive teams that wanted to lay their hazards against stall while also punishing setup.

>>30706957
>Yeah, but it doesn't get the Attack boost.

Doesn't need it, Sheer Force and Life Orb already give Landorus a Special Attack of 556.

>>30713277

Smogon tries their absolute hardest, but no matter how many tiers they make, some pokemon will never be "viable" by either hitting that sweet spot of being good, or just being way too shit., like Ledian for the latter.

Maybe you should get better bros next time.

>>30713399
If your bro is Articuno you are fucked even on a metagame without stealth rock.

Some shit is just that bad.

>>30713391
Yeah, Life Orb+Sheer Force interaction is why stuff like the Nidos hits way harder than their stats would suggest and now put that on a pokemon with actual speed and the move pool to abuse it.

>>30712673
so mons you can't get in game until pokebank? So what happens when you transfer a mon through bank and it has an old gen move? You're argument is so flawed.

>>30713540
If it has an old gen move, then it can't be used. Go to the move deleter and take it out. How is the argument flawed? What the fuck is there to argue about? Are you using that phrase right? Are you just vomiting words out of your mouth at this point?

>>30713311
t. someone whos not involved with anything or has never voted in a decision

>>30713597
beause thats fucking retarded? if you can use a mon you can't get without pokebank then why cant you use moves that mon already knew? what kind of headass thinking is that

>>30713540
You are an idiot that never plays the game, only the simulator. Let me explain.

Let's say you get a Charizard through the poke bank. You can't use THAT Charizard, but you can breed a new Charmander. It will inherit some moves from Bank Charizard, but it will be unable to learn some others.

Charizard is shit, so it's not the best example. Go for Greninja, one of the suspect mons. It loses Gunk Shot, the very reason why it got banned as soon as ORAS got released.

Check Stealth Rock, half of its users can't use the move. Ferrothorn still can, as some of the most common users, but there's a huge part that gets hindered.

Earth Power? Oh, that move gets butchered here and there.

And suddenly, Smogon has less problems to figure some shit out since most mons won't be able to learn 50+ moves.

>>30713668
Because it gives an advantage. There are resets every gen for a fucking reason. TMs are removed and added for a fucking reason. It's why Megamom Power-up punch isn't a thing anymore. It fixes things that were broken in the previous gen.

>>30713687
see >>30713668

theres no point, in fact that creates more problems.

>>30713356
>Mega-Sableye
That happened literally the day before the new gen dropped. It doesn't count.

>>30713399
As a person who has liked Mawile since gen 3, fuck you, and fuck your simluator.

t. Mad Mawilefag who quit smogon the day of the ban

>>30713732
>d-doesn't count!!!!
it was a ban and it was a specific hit against stall, so shut the fuck up. You didn't even adress my other points so please consider fucking off.

>>30713726
The only problem I see is your reading comprehension. Let me explain in simple, binary words.

POKEMON? USE ANYONE YOU WANT.

MOVES? USE THE ONES IT CAN LEARN IN GEN VII

There. For some reason you think you'd be unable to use non-Alola dex mons while I'm clearly saying you can. Open the cart, see that black D-Pad thing on the mon's summary? That means it's Alola/Gen VII-born, akin to the pentagon of Kalos/Gen VI.

Do you own any game btw? Or just play the simulator?

>>30713770
Too bad it's not going to be banned again this gen. They'll probably wait until the day before Gen VIII. If they cared about hitting still, they'd have done it sooner.

>>30713718
In sims there are no advantages created by oldgens.

Smogon is a sim-based format. It takes heavy advantages of the conveniences created by sims, and integrates them into their metagame. That's why Hidden Power Legendaries (especially pre-emerald) are suggested on sets despite being virtually impossible to obtain. That's why Wish Blissey is a staple.

You can play by their rules on cart, but they design their meta and rulings for sim.

If you want a format that panders exclusively to the newest games, just play VGC.

BTW, PuP Kanga isn't the reason it's banned. The reason it's banned is still because of oldgen only moves, admittedly (SToss and Wish), but if you're using PuP as an argument it simply shows how completely uninformed you are.

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>>30713860
Holy shit. You just made me realize. There are people who don't own the games... yet play the sim.

wtf is wrong with these people?

>>30713860
You can legally get a pokemon with pre-gen7 moves when bank releases, unless you think bank will do something insane like delete move-tutor only moves.

>>30713871
you're a retarded tripfag
there are much pressing pokemons still handing around OU than Mega-Sableye, and a lot of them were already namedropped

Hoppa Unbound, Genesect, Pheromosa
Once those properly fuck off Mega-Sableye can get banned

>>30713885
>he doesn't know about Pup Instruct

They removed the TM because of PuP's potential abuse of this.

>>30713937
Holy fucking shit.
AGAIN.
READING. CAN YOU FUCKING READ?

>>30713963
This is completely irrelevant in VGC, the only tier Gamefreak cares about. I fail to see your point.

>>30713963
wtf are you talking about, retarded tripfag? PuP Instruct is totally fucking irrelevant in Doubles.

>>30713937
Of course you can, but if it doesn't have the D-Pad thing you won't be able to use it online. You'll only be able to use it in friends battle or breeding so, ho and behold, you can breed a Gen VII born Charizard.

That's how Game Freak tries to balance, by disallowing shit from previous generations without 'killing' your pre-Gen VII mon. They are still shit at balancing, but not using the things they do right is even shittier.

Masuda can suck a cock and leave Morimoto handle things freely.

>>30713981
Okay: so you're suggesting that they disallow all pre-gen7 moves... why?

>>30714016
>you won't be able to use it online
Unless I'm mistaken, this only applies to VGC.

>>30713946
>Togedemaru used Twineedle!
>It hit one time!

>>30714042
Any Battle Spot, SINGLES or doubles, which are the ranked ladders.

If you want to use Gunk Shot Greninja you'll have to find a friend or play unranked against the autists that uses Mewtwo and co.

>>30714020
He's suggesting that they allow Pokemon with the Alola plus, to filter out a lot of the older tutor/event moves. Shit like the gen 6 tutor moves or that Wish Chansey that you had a 1/8 chance of hatching from a random egg if you were in New York during a two-week timeframe in the early 2000s.

>>30714016

This anon >>30714042 is correct.

The Alola rule is VGC exclusive. Battlespot will support Pokebank moves when it releases in about a month.

>>30713871
Mega-Sableye was literally 35th in Usage in OU as of the usage being posted. Behind Tapu Koko, Pheromosa, Landorus-Therian, Toxapex, Genesect, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Marowak-Alola, Celesteela, Tapu Bulu, Zygarde, Scizor-Mega, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Garchomp, Dugtrio, Latios, Buzzwole, Hoopa-Unbound, Magearna, Skarmory, Mantine, Venusaur-Mega, Greninja, Metagross-Mega, Chansey, Xurkitree, Charizard-Mega-X, Excadrill, Kartana, Rotom-Wash, Clefable, Porygon-Z, Mimikyu, and Bisharp.

It hasn't yet demonstrated a need to be banned this gen.

>>30714089
Well, smogon isn't battle spot. 6v6 singles is only possible in a challenge iirc (I don't know what to call it. You have to specifically challenge someone.)

So long as the mark isn't required there and it is possible to have a 6v6 singles match on cart with pokemon with pre-gen7 moves, there's no reason to restrict that in OU.

>>30714042
I believe you'll have to wait till bank release to play with tutor moves Pokemon

>>30714134
>Celesteela way ahead of Greninja in usage
>Greninja is the one being suspected

>>30714020
It'd take out Pokemon that don't belong in Ubers?
Face it. Greninja's going back to Ubers again.

>>30714179
It'd also remove moves from a lot of good pokemon for good reason. Your idea is retarded, stop posting.

>>30713912
Sun/Moon is shit. There you go.

>>30714176
I'm pretty sure no one is being suspect tested right now, did I miss an announcement?

>>30714176
kek
One's stall.
The other's offensive.

Of course Smogon's going after the offensive one. Wake up, Mareeple.

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>>30713770
>it was a ban and it was a specific hit against stall, so shut the fuck up
No, bitch. YOU shut the fuck up, and let me tell you why.
You know what good a ban does on the last day of a gen? Nothing. There's no time to see the lasting effects and metagame development because the Gen dies the next day. Nobody plays it anymore except for small gimmick tourneys that nobody cares about and it's no longer the main focus because there's a whole new set of things to balance. On top of that, it was immediately UNBANNED THE NEXT DAY cause "muh new gen".

When people look back on gen 6, they're gonna remember Mega Sableye and stall cause it became the face of the gen by virtue of every prominent stall breaker getting banned. The Mega Sableye ban was a copout that didn't do anything but give bitch ass niggas like you a soapbox to try and act like Smogon isn't biased.

As for the rest of your motherfuckery, Swagger is a stupid example because there was zero skill involved and it made the game more of an rng shitfest than it actually is. Even Own Tempo mons would get fucked over by foul plays because they were all special attackers, and the only halfway decent one could only immobilize one thing at a time, and got fucked over by a spare Talonflame.

Lugia is an even shittier example because not only does it have god mode defenses, but it actually has offensive presence AND fantastic recovery. It's best answer is a box legend (Taunt Yveltal) and it can even beat THAT by just speed creeping.

Gamefreak had no idea special Aegislash could become a thing. They're just throwing shit at a wall and seeing what happens.

Tl;dr: sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up

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>>30714230
>Celesteela is a stallmon
>doesn't have recovery
stop posting

>>30714224
Genesect and Greninja are being suspected, while they're 'keeping an eye' on Pheromosa's weaknesses.

Was either forums or chat room, but they're the ones being analized for the next hammer.

>>30714209
That's the fucking point. It changes everything up. Some pokemon move down, others move up.

>>30714257
>Ferrothorn is not a stallmon because it doesn't have a recovery move

Naisu baito desu

>>30714257
>Leech Seed

>>30714256
>Lugia has offensive presence
>90/90 offensive stats is offensive presence in FUCKING OU

holy shit, you need to stop posting and being a fucking retard

Won't even try to counter your remaining "arguments" as they're all retarded

>Swagger isn't stall because I say so!
>Bans don't count because I say so!

>>30714282
Celesteela is actually a shit stallmon thought because it's outclassed by Skarmory specifically on stall teams.

Roost, hazards, and Defog heavily outweigh better stats and offensive movepool, in the context of stall anyways.

Celesteela is more of a balance or bulky offense mon. It's shit stallmon.

>>30714258
I can't find that posted anywhere official, but it's understandable.

I don't even know why they let Greninja and Genesect back in, they still do the same things.

At least with Phero and Steela you have the "They're new" justification (even if I don't agree).

>>30713687
I like your idea honestly. Straight up moves that just can't be attained in the newest generation game should remain unattainable. It's a hamper on some of the neater things, but having to go all the way back to gen 3, in some cases, just to pass down an egg move is fucking ridiculous. I don't even know how fucking far back I'd need to go to get Extremespeed on Dragonite.

Is Landorus-doggo still the most used poke?

>>30714282
>ferrothorn barely ever on good stall teams throughout bw and oras

do you even play?

>>30714275
oh so you mean like tiers? those things you hate?

>>30714363
Tapu Koko is at the moment

>>30714256
>small gimmick tourneys
>Smogon Premier League
>The Smogon Classic

>>30714356
It's still an egg move this gen, so it'd be allowed. (Ex Speed Dragonite)

>>30714282
>>30714292
>bulky+leech seed = stallmon
No

Ferrothorn and Celesteela both get worn down over a match and eventually beaten. Stallmons can recover and specifically do not get worn down easily.

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>>30714306
>I just got blown the fuck out so I'll call him a retard! That'll surely win me the argument

>>30714370
I don't hate tiers. I just hate Smogon's way of deciding things.

>>30714384
It can't be attained through any parent currently available. I believe the parent has to come all the way from R/S/E to pass onto a child.

>>30714382
He doesn't follow them, that means they're small gimmick tourneys

>>30714414
If you weren't underage, you'd know it'd be from HGSS.

>>30711038
Name a single Pokemon that can run 40 different and viable movesets.

>>30714332
More proof that their Council is fucking retarded. There are obviously bigger threats to worry about than fucking Greninja -- like Pheromosa and possibly even Tapu Lele -- but they're like "ooh lets let the new toys play around for several months!"

Christ. No wonder all the people who actually knew what they were doing all left or were debadged.

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>>30714466
>underage

I wish anon, I'm twenty-five.

>>30714469
Octillery

>>30714414
But that's ok. As long as you can breed it in Gen VII, it's ok.

What Dragonite would miss would be anything that's under the Transfer-Only list here: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/149.shtml

>>30714490
We can't go back to the good old days anymore. Soon, we will all be dust.

>>30714487
While I agree with you that they need to be banned, it's not "ooh lets let the new toys play around for several months!", it's "lets let the new toys play around until we're sure they're actually broken and not powerful because we haven't found the counters yet."

>>30714382
also Smogon Tour, and potentially world cup.

>>30714413
you posted your way earlier and it was shit. and before you say "How do you know its shit if you haven't seen it in action". Because we have seen it in action. It was a battle simulator called PokeBattle around halfway through XY before ORAS. Created by Philip8076 (ex admin on smogon) and Blue Kirby (other old player). The idea turned out to be shit with it only lasting a few months with very little playerbase because it wasn't fun. The meta turned into hyper offense with broken ass shit like darkrai and kyurem-white while using geodude as a suicide rocker. Seriously, it isn't a good idea.

>>30714546
They were doing it wrong.

>>30714571
They were doing exactly what you said and it failed. Get over it.

https://twitter.com/pokebattleteam feel free to look into it and how successful they were.

>>30714411
>posting reaction images makes me smarter!
you sure showed everyone anon

>>30714529
With all due respect, that last excuse is the same bullshit they pulled in Gen 5 when they absolutely refused to suspect Drizzle despite the majority of the tier calling for it. The one thing that was obviously broken, that provided massive boosts and boons to several Pokemon, was never ever brought up as a suspect by that council.

There's something to be said about mob rule and the tyranny of the majority, but Smogon goes too far in the opposite direction, in that cliquish staff and omnipowerful tiering councils make any and all decisions on what they want to be banned. Hell, look at their latest thread; the forum is wondering why the hell they quickbanned something nearly no one was talking about.

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First and foremost, we recognize that Nidoking is not invincible. With common weakness to Water, Ground or Ice and a below average speed of 85, fast Pokemon such as Greninja, Pheromosa or Tapu Koko can outspeed it and easily revenge kill it without a problem.

However, with an arsenal of powerful attacks composed of Earth Power, Sludge Wave, Ice Beam, Thunder Bolt, Flamethrower, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power Everything, Earthquake, Poison Jab, Megahorn, Sucker Punch, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Rock Slide and Pay Day, combined to good offensive stats (102 Atk / 85 SpA) and the ability Sheer Force that gives it a recoil-free Life Orb boost, Nidoking is absolutely unpredictable.

Worse, it also learns moves such as Hone Claws or Rage, allowing it to fulfill a late game sweeper role, in addition of being a terrifying strike force against any form of stall. You can't also wear it down, as its unique type combination makes it immune to most form of paralysis and all types of poison.

Indeed, countering Nidoking is quite the tremendous challenge, as it can run enough movepool to hit any pokemon super effectively.

>>30714663
Fair enough, but I'm ok with it as an excuse up for a short time. The game is still fairly new, and this is the post-bank meta which isn't even playable in-game yet.

I definitely think Phero needs a ban and Lele/Steela will need suspects, but it's still early enough that I'll live with them for a little longer.

>>30714736
Actual, medical autism.

>>30713110
>they'll hire a poet to state how powerful Nidoking is

lel, have a (You)

>>30714736
Huh, Nidoking has a better move pool than I gave it credit for.

>>30714736
>good offensive stats (102 Atk / 85 SpA)

uh

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>>30714658
>can't post images on an imageboard

>>30714826
Life orb+ sheer force

>>30714744
For a short time, yes. However, the current council and staff haven't exactly given me any confidence. I'm predicting they're going to fall back on old habits and simply kick the can down the road for deeper problems (Stealth Rock since Gen 4, Scald) and simply pick things that they know everyone doesn't like. The staff doesn't like rocking the boat and are unwilling to face drama, from my long observation.

Time will only tell, though.

guys, why not just ban nothing and see what happens?

sure everyone would be using mewtwo and arceus, but that's no different than everyone using the tapus or ultra beasts. Plus it would allow me to finally use my bro deoxys in OU as well as several others like forretress that have a bigger niche on Uber teams.

the only things that really need to be banned are mega rayquaza and the primals, maybe gengar too, then we'd have a nice comfy metagame with the truly most powerful mons rather than a made up one with arbitrary rules. :)

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>>30714816
it's unpredictable. ban.

>>30714971
>Gengar needs a ban
>Mega-Salamence is fine

>>30714971
>guys, why not just ban nothing and see what happens?
You already answered your own question:
>sure everyone would be using mewtwo and arceus
Then OU would just become Ubers.

>>30714816
Movepool? Nidoking has a moveocean. It even learns Superfang in case he's getting resisted elsewhere, which happens 0.000001% of the time.

He should be suspected way ahead of Pheromosa :^)

>>30715026
>Then OU would just become Ubers.

yes, that's what I'm saying. We should use "ubers" as our standard core metagame and try to balance it instead of starting off with 30+ pokemon banned for no reason.

>>30715026
>implying it isn't already
UU is the true tier. ou is just the banlist.

>>30714971
UUbers when? Deo-N and Reshiram seriously need a place to be usable

>>30714087
252+ Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Togedemaru: 330-388 (98.8 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
(Hyperspace fury wasn't in the calc, did 100bp crunch)

?

>>30714990
Lando-I wasn't speifically banned because its unpredictable. Its the fact that even when you can predict around it it doesn't matter because its still doing its job in killing half your team with one move.

>>30714971
>primals banned
>gengar banned
huh
>my bro deoxys in ou!
just play ubers wtf? its exactly what happens if you don't ban any poke (besides mega fug)

>>30715087
Thats how we started out over 15 years ago. You have to realize ubers was never designed to be a tier. It was merely a banlist for pokemon that were to strong for the metagame. It only changed into an official "tier" when we had to ban mega ray because it was that stupid. Anything Goes is the metagame you're talking about, and its ridiculously stupid.

>>30715183
>>30715233

I don't think I was clear. I didn't mean play anything goes, I just meant start out with an anything goes tier and then slowly ban the problem pokemon until you're left with ubers-lite. Because as it is now Anything goes and ubers are both unbalanced because of the amount of shit allowed, but OU is also unbalanced and dumb because of the amount of shit banned.

you would end up with less pokemon pointlessly banished to ubers where they end up never being used ever.

>>30715375
I'd start with
>Every legendary banned, even if they're Articuno. They wouldn't be available to common trainers.
>No Mega Stones. Same reason as above.

>>30715497
>tfw Meloetta and Diancie lover
I just can't win

>>30715375
I kinda remember seeing this idea being thrown around during DPP

Didn't catch on because it'd just be too far from the norm, same reason they won't let go of the _U naming convention