http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread s/landorus-incarnate-is-

>>30681719
>being this assmad about an inferior Garchomp

Git fucking gud, sub 1100 shitter.

>>30681719
oh

I guess that was to be expected

Good, can Garchomp be banned too so I can stop seeing every fucking match?

>>30681777
>every match
>has less usage than either landorus form

>>30681777
Garchomp is not broken, it's just very good at what it does, like Landorus therian.

>>30681719
Next ban the rest of the fucking genies with it.

>>30681719
Another one bites the dust, thank goodness.

Now let's get Genesect and Pheromosa. I'd say Greninja will go next month with Pokebank restoring its Move Tutor moves.

>>30681851
>thundurus and tornadus are both in UU now
Ha no.

>>30681719
Seeing how it was -only- 101 speed I was thinking it would go after some of the faster threats

>>30681755
>Special Attacker
>Garchomp

>>30681905
It has Rock Polish for offense, Calm Mind for stall, and can do mixed with Knock Off + Superpower or have a partner Dugtrio if it really wants for the likes of Chansey.

>>30681878
How the fuck is Thundurus not good enough for OU anymore?

Tornadus I can see (even then, you would think it would recover given the resurgence of rain), but how the fuck is Thundurus not good enough for OU anymore?

>>30681864
Pheromosa is never getting banned, shitter

>>30681981
Tapu Koko is a thing

>>30681998
Why would you say any of that? The good players already agree with my sentiment.

>>30681803

>Garchomp is not broken, it's just very good at what it does, like Landorus therian.

So setting up every match without any interference and baitswitching every electric type? k

>>30682056
[citation needed]

also Genesect is a more pressing matter at the moment as it can run a million sets instead of scarf.

>>30682056
the "good" players primarily run stall and they're pissed because pheromosa hits hard enough to shit on them before they can set up

not to mention how pheromosa is incredibly predictable, gets ruined by priority and ghost types, and is easily outsped by scarf users

>>30682082
Garchomp? Setting up? Are you sure. That shit doesnt need a set up to be good, the setup is a huge plus.

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>everyone forgetting that hoopa-u is still OU

>>30682160
Hoopa U is kinda shit

>>30681981
Prankster and Twave both got nerfed and Tapu Koko does pretty much anything it does better except for its physical movepool.

>>30682186
in what way? theres still nothing to stomach choiced dark+psychic stabs
if anything its better now since bulky dark types are much less seen what with fairy tapus everywhere

>>30682137

Pheromosa can't do shit to stall teams, it's offensive teams that it shits all over.

It's Greninja 2.0, minus Protean.

>>30681719
WHY THE FUCK IS GENESECT DID GENESECT DROP IN THE FIRST PLACE
>i'll switch in get a free Choice Band boost for my U-turn OR free Choice Specs boost (hurr Shift Gear gg no thinking needed!) by the way i am basically a superior Greninja in that I can learn all the elemental attacks so everyone is getting hit super effectively. Great Bug/Steel typing. Great stats. TOTALLY GOOD FOR OU AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA SMOGON COUNCIL IS FUCKING RETARDED

>>30682244
greninja is way less predictable and resists bullet punch, a very common STAB priority

the situation is very different

>>30682137
Stall player here.
We don't give a shit about Pheromosa since Toxapex cucks the thing out of existence. Physically defensive Clefable can also bait it into using poison jab and then exploding it and M-Sableye can burn it, tank and heal u-turn and shadow sneak on it.

>>30682246
chill the fuck out, it'll be getting banned soon

>>30682265
yeah you're right
greninja doesn't get a free 1.5x damage boost on the switch in in addition to its hold item that's already boosting damage Kappa

>>30682099
The irony of [citation needed]

And I don't see how you can casually just backpedal on your absolute of never getting banned to turn it into a relative of 'after Genesect' when you just end up arguing with yourself and not me. You seem to be getting a lot more out of "Now let's get Genesect and Pheromosa" than the normal reader should.

>>30682137
Right, but the case of predictability and short-term answers (considering Ghosts for instance can be Pursuit trapped) don't diminish a threat. You could argue Greninja wasn't a threat by the same measure in ORAS because Chansey and P2 stood up to it on stall.

>>30682330
Everyone runs it with +speed beast boost though.

>>30682337
As someone who plays pre-bank with Pheromosa on my team, there are a lot of situations where I can't really use it well.

HJK, U-turn, Poison Jab, and Ice Beam give me good coverage, but if I see a Scizor, Metagross, or Greninja on the other team I know I'm in some trouble and can't really do anything with Pheromosa that would KO a single opponent, because then they'd switch in something with priority that could totally dick me. And those three are all very common.

I've used Pheromosa. Unless the situation is perfectly suited for you to start sweeping with it (which you could do with a lot of sweepers), it quickly gets shit on. And this doesn't even bring up focus sash users.

>>30682337
so no citation then

>>30682446
Do you use slower pivots to get it in safely? As a fragile mon, that's how you should be approaching it -- or at least playing aggressively by doubling into it if you decide not to use pivots. Most of the time Pheromosa is using U-Turn since you would have things like trappers in the back or Volt Switchers to go to to help break the opponent's team. And Sashes just warrant hazards.

>>30682456
You still don't get it.

>>30682446
Don't a lot of Pheromosa players run with Lele?

>>30682577
I don't, because I don't want to try abusing things that could be considered broken. Fini is the only one I use on that team.

>>30682548
I don't run hazards either. I'm talking in terms of pure team composition, without hazards or trying to set things up to prevent priority. I have to specifically avoid using Pheromosa in a lot of cases until a threat is safely dealt with, which a lot of players know I'm trying to do.

>>30682265
Greninja can't chunk things with U-Turn.

>>30682630
I don't know what you're trying to say here. Are you handicapping yourself on purpose or what? Stealth Rock puts pressure on the opponent's ability to switch.

Just as they try to keep your Pheromosa out, you try to keep their threat out. Like if you have a Magnezone, they'll be less compelled to go to Scizor for fear of U-Turn into Mag.

Why don't they seperate the legends from the normals instead of muddying the tiers further?

We can have UU-L, OU-L and Ubers-L where everyone can duke out with their inner child using legends and mythicals against each other.

>>30682782
The people against legendaries are the ones with an "inner child" that only wants to use their bros.

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>>30682630
>I don't run hazards

Any good Smogon player should at least use Stealth Rock. There is no excuse not to, unless you enjoy handicapping yourself.

>>30682782
Because "legendary" is just a title that means nothing in battle, like how "starter" doesn't make it any different from a regular pokemon.

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>>30682782
>Ubers-L

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>>30681719
NOW BAN THERIAN AS WELL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>30682843
I enjoy playing hyper offense so I don't do anything that would discourage mindgame switching

>>30682337
Can you, like, allow anybody to make points with instead of assuming everybody's out to get you

Fucking christ

>>30682890
>I run hyper offense so I want to encourage them to keep out-predicting me
That makes no sense at all.

>>30682782
Because "legendary" doesn't mean shit in competitive. Sure, you have stuff like Mega Fug, but you also get Regigigas and Articuno.

>>30682904
Of course I can, as evidenced by my conversation with the other guy. Just stop being a prick by belittling people when you can't even put together a sound argument.

>>30681755
>literally outing yourself as a shitter yourself

wew

Should've banned Pheromosa first. Lando-I actually has a lot of decent checks and even some hard checks. Pheromosa on the other hand can easily put itself in position where it just rolls over opponent's team if you give it Psychic Terrain, Dugtrio and Pursuit support. Or just spam U-Turn when it can't.

>>30682782
Because Articuno is one of the worst mons in the game.

>>30681803
Its very good at every fucking this it does. The damn thing runs CB, CS, rocks, swords dance, defensive, i mean fuck

>>30683152
Pheromosa has common Counters
Lando-I has only two incredibly uncommon ones.

>>30683188
And... Again, very good =/= broken.

>>30682890
What, hyper offense loves rocks

>>30683225
>celesteela
>uncommon

>>30683290
>Celesteela
>Counter

>>30683225
>pheramosa
>counters
U-turn. Frail pokemon can't stay in so you're forced into a wall, and from there Pheramosa can easily pivot into whatever beats your wall.

>>30683228
Never said it was fuccboi

>>30682137
Stall players don't give a shit about pheromosa.

but desu i want balanced teams to thrive fuck hyper offensive and fuck stallfags.

>>30683329
Or forced into something that resists u-turn.

>>30681719
Can we ban the other Lando too? Its even more cancerous IMO

>>30683225
Pheromosa has literally zero actual counters after Aegislash ban. Everything gets either 2HKOd by coverage or takes significant damage from U-Turn into Dugtrio, Pursuit trapper or one of many wallbreakers. Lando-I has no viable hard counters, but it has a bunch of checks AND can be played around with resistances/immunities. I don't dispute it would probably get voted out if suspect tested, but quickbanning it before Pheromosa is stupid.

Does that just mean everyone will switch to Therian Forme?

>>30683365

All three playstyles (hyper offense, balance, and stall) are supposed to be viable.

When one playstyle has an advantage over the other two, there's a problem.

>>30683366
And then Pheramosa still pivots into something to beat you while you eat that fat damage.

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>>30683412
Stallfags shouldn' exist.
they are making it fucking slower beyond possible, and most of them also time-stall

fuck "10 more mintues mom" style

>>30683377
1. Put Azumarill on team
2. Lando-T can no longer wall your Physical attacks because they are supereffective
3. ???
4. (stop being a scrub)
5. Profit

>>30683377
Lando-T is only cancerous in VGC. If you have problem with it in 6v6 consider gitting gud.

>>30683412
Stall isn't more viable than the other playstyles, it's just more annoying to fight against.

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>>30683152
Pheromosa would die in ubers as a worse deoxys attack, it'll definitely stay in OU.

>>30683623
Just because something is shit in ubers doesn't mean it'll stay in OU.

>>30683623
>this shitpost again
Just because it sucks in Ubers doesn't means it's ok in OU

>>30683623
If I had a dollar for every time some idiot said something like this, I could afford to be a janitor on here.

>>30683512
>pokemon forces me to run one specific counter to it or else it shits on the team
heh, almost like that's exactly what smogon means with "overcentralizing"

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>>30683623
there are tons of ubers that aren't viable

>>30683623
OU promote: "What's up guys? I'm new here! I can't wait to be used in this tier like how I was in OU!"
>Arceus, Xerneas, Primal Groudon, Yveltal, Lugia and Giratina laughing in the distance

>>30682879
>Protein Frog
>Smogon Charge Blade
>Muslim Dragon
>Speed Boost Chicken-chan

>>30681981
New toy syndrome. Torn was uu/bl for months in gen 6.

>>30683692
holy shit
dude
if a specific physical wall is giving you trouble, try using a physical attacker whose STAB hits it supereffectively so it cant do it job as a wall
Back when SkarmBliss was a thing, you could run Wild Charge Eelektross to fuck over the core
How is sub-1000 treating you?

>>30683397
pheromosa gets beaten hard by any priority move, entry hazards, ghosts, fairys, and U-turning it makes it unable to take advantage of beast boost.

>>30683871
feel free to battle me if you think you're such hot shit

>>30683904
lol
you were the one calling landorus-t 'broken'
it just has high usage because it's a really good mon
chill out boi

>>30683955
what's this? an actual low elo shitter being scared when he'd have to show his skills in practice instead of loudmouthing through text? color me surprised...

>>30684009
dang. you got me :)

>>30682246
This is like the preseason of comp battling, pretty much everything is OU other than the obvious ubers

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because this is the local smogonfagging thread, how viable is Ash-Greninja from D to S?

S is the female roach and protean one for example

>>30684038
>he's LITERALLY afraid of a battle in the game he throws ad-hominems around when trying to prove his point in balance discussion

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>>30682246
they never learned, fucking 3 gens in row.

>>30684081
>how viable is Ash-Greninja
I rank him around BURASTO BAHN tier

>>30684140
what an original joke did you come up with it yourself

>>30684119
At least they didn't drop down the Deoxys formes AGAIN

>>30683743
Arceus, Deoxys, kyogre, and reshiram all have different forms that are way more viable in ubers. I don't know why genesect or hoopa are there though since they've never given me much trouble when they were OU.

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>>30684081
A/A+

People don't realized yet how good is this thing. It's having it's own niche comparing to protean.

>>30684119
these are hilarious
where can i find more

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>>30684269

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>>30684177
>reshiram
>different forms

>>30684299
Kyurem-white kinda counts

Landorus can't take an ice beam for shit.

>>30684260
funny that i have no problem killing it even after transforming, too many electric and bug types this generation

>>30684119
Smogon OU never fucking learns at all because they resist any and all attempts to try and 'correct' the metagame from anything other than their suspect tests. You would think after a few generations they would just keep Genesect banned, but their council is literally retarded this year.

With the way they're already promoting so much cancer in the tier, I'm going to hold off and wait to see how UU forms before I play again. It's ridiculous.

>>30684293
>>30684119

both of them have made me kekking, but >>30684119 a little more

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Competetive thread?

Been running this Toxapex thread and wanted thoughts.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
252 HP / 252 Defense /4 SpD
Bold Nature
-Recover
-Baneful Bunker
-Liquidation
-Poison Jab

>>30684367

No good player is going to let an Ice Beam hit their Landorus

>>30684414
-recover
-toxic/tspikes
-scald
-haze

only legit toxapex set, everything else is a meme

>>30684414

Baneful Bunker is shit

Regular poison is just a shittier burn, you want to inflict Toxic poison

>>30684444
quads confirm

>>30684432
Surprise scarfed silvally

>>30682330
>Kappa
Get the fuck out you cancerous faggot

>>30683623
Ubers is a banlist before a tier

>>30684597
This is not true anymore, and is not a good argument against the electrodeposter

>>30684626
>This is not true anymore
how so

>>30684381
People don't use it right, who have guessed.

after transforming, both specs and life orb (considered worse than specs, but still ok and viable) sets are terrifying cleaners with amazing speed and power and post talonflame death? the most powerful priority in OU.
To give you the idea -
water Shuriken:

>252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 144-171 (32.4 - 38.5%) -- approx. 99% chance to 3HKO

>252 SpA Life Orb Ash-Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 129-153 (29 - 34.4%) -- approx. 0.5% chance to 3HKO

Just to give you how stupid the numbers:

>252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 147-174 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

I can show off the numbers in Rain too. which are fucking retarded.

Hydro:

>252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 261-307 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>252 SpA Life Orb Ash-Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 226-266 (50.9 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And just for the taste-

252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Hydro Pump in Rain vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

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You guys think it'll stay? I can't believe it made it to OU at all.

>>30684698

Having decent Attack and Speed + a guaranteed Swords Dance does that

If anything, it should get even better once all the broken shit is gone

>smogon

lmfao

>>30684698
I doubt it. It will be BL since UU doesn't want it.

>>30684762
>BL
Please no. I don't need it as too good for UU but too shit for OU seeing use in neither. I want to karenfag so at least give me one if them.

>>30684698
not really desu

>>30684655
Jesus fucking christ. It's also breaks sash and subs. What the fuck.

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>>30684293
that tyranitar one killed me

>>30684119
>Right here Excadrill

I laugh too much than I'm supposed to.

How is UU like now though since I heard some Gen 6 OU pokemon like Keldeo, Weavile and Serperior dropped down there?

>>30685705
I just started playing there. I managed to beat King UU in a close match with my favorite gen4 core Band Scizor+Scarf Flygon and I was giddy about it but then I faced some guy with CharY BD Azu Latias Jirachi and Thundurus and got aids since nothing could reliably deal with all these godly mons.
Again it has been two hours since the tier opened but I doubt BD Azu, Jirachi or CharY will stay.

>>30681719

FINALLY.

Thank fucking christ, this thing had no place in OU.

>>30684444
>toxic spikes
Toxic is better.

>>30684698
Stay or not, it's my favorite, so it won't go from my team.

>>30681719
And nothing of value was lost

>>30683329
Alola Marowak. can escape dugtrio and hit like a truck on the switch in

>>30684293
>lele would stuck her finger up your butt

LEWD

>>30682446
That's what you have teammates for bro.

>>30682630
>I don't, because I don't want to try abusing things that could be considered broken. Fini is the only one I use on that team.

>Since I'm gimping myself and not using Pheromosa along with its teammates (or other Pokemon) to its full potential that means it's not worthy of being banned

Damn you're retarded.

I dont get it. We have stronger things in OU and nobody bats an eye

>>30683503
I hate that Mega-Sableye is so crucial to stall. I want to use him on my other teams, but he doesn't fit nearly as well.

>>30687814

What Lando's base Special Attack looks like: 115

What is actually is: 229

When you factor in Sheer Force and Life Orb, Lando-I's Special Attack is 556

>>30684119
My sides. The best one right here

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>Lando I
>before Genesect
>before Mother.
>FUCKING.
>PHEROMOSA!

FOR.
WHAT.
PURPOSE?!?

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>>30684293
just gonna take this for myself.

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>>30688798
Nearly no switch ins.
Genesect and Pheromosa will follow soon.

>>30688798
You told them to remove genies. They're removing genies.

Speaking of OU,is poison jab over iron tail a better choice on Garchomp now?

>>30689388
If you're gonna run a third offensive typing on Chomp its very usually gonna be Fire Fang+SD

>>30689150
But Ash-Greninja choked, not jobbed.

Beside that good list

>>30684655
Show them Specs in Rain calcs against Koko, Fini and Buzzwole

Basically if you don't resist ur fugged

>>30689459
Ah,I'm using Banded Chomp though with EQ,Stone Edge,Outrage,and Iron Tail.Is fire fang an egg move? If yes,then I guess I'm screwed.

>>30689459
Just use Fireblast to fuck with steel types without having to worry about helmet. You font even need to invest for the 2hko.