Egg and Breeding RNG

>>30676630
Thanks for the bump but I don't think 'git gud' applies to my situation.

Thats pretty interesting. I wonder how far ahead it generates stats for?

>>30676572
I noticed it as well. Opened like 6 eggs and all had the same shitty natured, balls, abilities, etc.

>>30676694
>>30676738
Do you think it would be worth posting this in like a mechanics research thread on Smogon or would they not give a shit?

>>30676827
Totally worth it. Also about the HA chance in chains.

>>30676953
Sure thing. I'll go ahead and make one.

>>30676694
I imagine it would keep going forever.

>>30676953
>>30676738
Here's the thread if y'all are curious http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/breeding-rng-quirk.3589338/

>>30677197
Thanks, I'll be sleeping an eye on it.

>>30676572
Here's a new test for those curious:

I reset again, and rejected the first egg. Instead of generating a new egg right away, I took out Ditto and Mimikyu from the daycare, and put them back in, in a different order (Previously, Ditto was deposited first and then Mimikyu, so I reversed the order).

Lo and behold, I achieved the exact same results for what happened in the last part of my original post, with the EXACT SAME IVs as the first Mimikyu after the rejected egg for the first egg generated in this test. The second, third, etc. Mimikyu were the exact same as any of the tests I had done previously.

Now I'm testing for what would happen if I put a DIFFERENT Mimikyu but use the same Ditto to generate more eggs. I'll report back in a couple minutes.

>>30677676
Wasn't there something similar in XY (didn't play ORAS) where each egg group picked the IVs imported and the value of the unimported IV?

I'm back. I tried it with the two different Mimikyus. However this is only raising more questions than answers....

I reset, reject the first egg as always. I take out the Mimikyu in the daycare and replace it with another Mimikyu. I generate and take 4 eggs after that exchange. The first two Mimikyu eggs are different, but then the last two ARE THE SAME AS ALL THE PREVIOUS TESTS.

I'm starting to think there's some sort of broken RNG with eggs. Perhaps we can see the return of RNG Manipulation or something akin to Instacheck in the near future?

>>30678011
If there is, I'm not aware of such a thing. Are you trying to say that the RNG in that instance carries over to my situation?

I have something HUGE to add to this thread.
My friend hatched a shiny, and then forgot to save before soft resseting a ultra beast. When he restarted and loaded back to the breeder, he was pissed because he had lost his shiny, however, after several eggs, he hatched a shiny, on the same egg!
OP is onto something here

>>30678085
Uh ok

So you'd basically save before rejecting an egg and as long as the egg group was the same, the thing that would be generated would be something like

HP: Mother
Attack: 20
Def: Father
Sp A: Father
Sp D: Father
Sp A: Mother

you'd send two dummies in the egg with unique IVs like:

Father:
1/1/1/1/1/1

Mother:
2/2/2/2/2/2

and you'd identify the breed by checking the IVs of the egg hatched (remember you rejected the egg)

So you might switch out the pokemon to get like

Father: 13/5/31/31/31/0
Mother: 31/31/31/6/7/31

And you'd end up with:
31/20/31/31/31/31

So I'd say maybe there's some shit going on with the IVs of the Mimikyus you're looking at.

If we're looking for a pattern, then we'd want to consider the different Mimikyu parent. How were they different and how were the same?

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>>30676572
I noticed this too.
I was MMing for a shiny Dewpider. After hundreds of eggs, one hatched shiny but my 3DS died. Not that I minded since it wasn't the gender I wanted.

I hadn't saved and went back to hatching eggs. Turns out the exact same shiny reappeared. Curious, I soft reseted and after a bunch of identical eggs, the same shiny showed up again.

Then I changed the Dewpider in the nursery with another one: exact same result.
I was trying to SR to change the gender but absolutely none of the eggs change.

Since I didn't want a female Dewpider, I SR again and replaced the Dewpider in the nursery with a Mimikyu since I did want a female Mimikyu.
Exact shiny hatched again (same nature, IV spread, even characteristic) but this time it was a Mimikyu.

Though I didn't reject any eggs because I was lucky enough to save my game when the lady's sister didn't have any eggs to give me.
It seems as if eggs are fixed no matter the parents.

>>30678250
Wow, congrats to your friend! I'm glad this is the case for someone else and I'm not just crazy. I wonder if the RNG in this game can be manipulated in the near future.

>>30678271
One Mimikyu was 6 IVs and the other was 5 IV, so not too big of a difference admittedly. The end result for the last two Mimikyus ended up being the exact same, however the first two happened to be different. I haven't tested this again out of sheer laziness so this specific instance could be a fluke. but I might test this again a little later. So I think something like >>30678011 might be relevant, where the IVs taken from each parent are predetermined, as well as ball, gender, etc.

If this helps: My Japanese 6IV Ditto is holding the Destiny Knot, and the Mimikyus used were holding Everstones. So perhaps which IVs get passed down from which parent are determined from whoever's holding the Destiny Knot, but this needs more testing for clarification.

>>30678318
Holy crap, that's really interesting. So it doesn't matter the species of parent then.

I'm too dumb to understand this but it sounds cool

>>30678437
(I got that "double (you)" like Bush)
>whoever's holding the destiny knot

Well I think that's true, I didn't try to switch them. The Ditto would basically be whichever gender you didn't use. So in other words, your 6 IV ditto can play both sides and you can swap out the gender and pick the pokemon that had the relevant IVs so you'd just one shot it.

With regards to the knot, the pokemon of species would generally have the nature I wanted, so it had the everstone.

This was how you could "legit" get some high quality pokemon with just a bunch of friend safari 2 IV Dittos pretty quick.

I'm wondering if there's a way to break MM with this. For instance make 30 or so pokemon whose eggs hatch quickly, if any of them are shiny, reset and switch the parents right before the shiny egg. Otherwise save the game and repeat.

So, let me get this straight OP as a TL;DR

Is this hypothesis proposing that there is something that causes a shiny pokemon to be "fixed"?

>>30678437
>So it doesn't matter the species of parent then.
Seems like it. But I do think the gender ratio of the species does. Both Dewpider and Mimikyu have 50/50 ratio (and one ability but I don't know if that matters.) Since species gender ratio influences the SV of the egg it probably wouldn't have worked if I put in a 75/25 or genderless parent.

>>30678633
Have you played XCOM?
The game generates a list of dice throws and then checks them in order, instead of throwing every dice.
It seems the Daycare uses a similar or the same system, a Seeded System.

>>30678725
So, its random but predictable?

>>30678633
Yes, to an extent. It's moreso that the characteristics of a Pokemon hatched from an egg in S/M are very predetermined, moreso than earlier entries in the series (See Time Machine method in XYORAS).

>>30678742
Yes.
For example, a certain lists says that the 232 egg will be shiny, if you save and reset after the list is generated, the 232 egg will always be shiny as long as you don't force the game to generate a new list.

>>30678318
If this is real and you are not fucking with me, a bit of luck in the IV field and a backup save, you could hatch an infinite amount of legit shiny pokemon?

>>30678725
>>30678859
>Seeded System

Could we see the return of RNG manipulation a la 4th and 5th gen is this is the case?

OP here, I'm not exactly too knowledgeable on how RNG in Pokemon games work, I'm just going off my knowledge of the incident in the OP and some rng manipulation I did back in the day.

I caught a Mareanie with Regenerator.

But nature was shit, so I bred it with a Bold Pelipper to get both Stockpile and the nature.

But now not a single offspring has Regenerator. What am I doing wrong?

>>30678970
The main thing would be to see what causes a list to be rolled.

>>30678873
I'm real. Both shinies had the same gender, IV spread, nature, and even characteristic. I did using a everstone (Impish for Dewpider, Jolly for Mimikyu) though.

I don't hack or anything too. I only SR because I was trying to change the gender.

>>30679010
Bad luck. Keep on trucking, Mareaniebro.

>>30679045
Right, that makes sense. Now all we have to do is see what unorthodox action in the game will cause the 'egg list' to be rerolled.

>>30679010
You need to breed HA Mareanie with another Mareanie to pass down the ability if it's female. Ditto if it's male. Try one of your breedjects with the egg moves.

>>30679140
It's female, after 15 eggs I finally got one with Regenerator

>>30678318
Holy shit. So as long as you can manage to hatch a shiny, you can soft-reset, replace that parent, and create a shiny with whatever species you would like.

>>30679140
It's not exactly that. Females have a chance of passing down Hidden Abilities no matter what they fuck. Males need to fuck Dittos to have a chance of passing HA.

>>30679010
60% chance to pass down Regenerator if its female. 20% chance if its male.

>>30679185
Not whatever species. I'm pretty sure the species need to share the same gender ratio like I said here >>30678637. Besides that it looks like the egg are fixed.

>>30677197
>moderator directed you to a simple question/request thread where your post will be drowned and ignored will irrelevant garbage

what a useless retard

>>30679353
Yeah what the fuck Smogon.

Too busy trying to figure out how to ban Toxapex while keeping their waifu pokemon mixed sweepers.

>>30679353
I think this deserves a whole thread on it's own. It seems to be a very complicated issue to be in a general thread.

let's fucking raid smogon, teach those bastards a lesson

>>30679760
Exactly. If you plan to do a lot of testing, it's going to need its own thread to keep a cohesive record of your results. It really doesn't seem like they understood your post.

OP here again. Gonna test what happens when a different parent holds the Destiny Knot. Will post results.

So I have some info on what's happening. It seems that changing the Destiny Knot changes the Pokemon's IVs, but also changes its gender.

It looks like the Destiny Knot might be what rerolls the seed for eggs, I'm gonna do a little more testing.

>>30682084
Does it help if I tell you that I kept getting the same mons over and over without any parent holding the destiny knot?

>>30682203
Yes actually. It does however seem that the Destiny Knot changes other properties of an Egg Pokemon.

If you don't mind, can you test out what would happen if one of those parents holds a Destiny Knot? Currently, I'm testing out what would happen if one parent was holding the Destiny Knot but the other parent DOESN'T hold the Everstone.

I found this out when I was trying to hatch a Jolly Mimikyu for a friend, and would get the same one when I tried to save right before the egg hatched and soft reset if I didn't get what I was looking for. Did some experimenting around but I didn't take any notes.

>>30679227
Not the same guy, but that wasn't the case for me unless RNG was fucked (or serebii is wrong on the gender rates). I bred a male HA Mareanie with a ditto, getting roughly 60% on HA going down and like a 10% chance of the eggs being female.

Bred 6 HA A-Vulpix, all came out female. Both times, I bred via Ditto.

>>30682304
I'd do it but I don't even have a destiny knot, I'm sorry lol. Also going to sleep soon, almost 1 am here.

OP here, did some more testing. Seems that the Everstone DOES NOT affect the eggs properties, at least anything besides what nature gets passed down. So it looks like switching whoever holds the Destiny Knot seems to determine the "egg list" seed system a la >>30678725

>>30682421
Eggs are determined as soon as the daycare man/woman/lad/whatever gets the egg. This has been the case since (I believe) Gen 3. What's interesting about the phenomenon in the OP is that these eggs are more predetermined than ever before.

So, if the eggs are seeded/pre-rolled what if you fight wilds between egg pickup? Can you, say, reload before a shiny egg is acquired and encounter a shiny wild within the 6 rolls for a MM shiny?

Do we have any idea how long the predetermined list is and if exiting the game instead of soft reseting would change it?

>>30676572
Anon
Someone beat you to this

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/187277-pokemon-moon/74620882?jumpto=7

Basically, Some people already knew.

>>30682873
We still don't know anything about when this predetermination begins or ends, what can change it (if anything), etc

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>>30682530
It's okay, have a good rest anon!

>>30682873
OP here
Fair enough, however I wasn't claiming to be the first one to discover this, I just wanted to know if anyone else knew what was happening, so that thread actually helps!

Wishful thinking, but I hope one day someone discovers a way to 'reroll' the eggs given to you. It seems as though that I've found out that giving the Destiny Knot to a different parent will generate different results.

The only weird part of that thread is that they tested it with NATURES, while I tested it with IVs. Destiny Knot definitely changes the properties of a Pokemon, not the everstone/nature.

>>30682658
Exiting and soft-resetting would produce the same results, most likely.

>>30677197
mod is a dumbass

>>30679353
>>30679437
>>30683107
>>30679980
It's okay guys. he likely misunderstood the post and directed me to where he thought I'd get my question answered. Just an honest mistake.

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>tfw got my trap seal in 2.5 boxes

git good maight

>>30683356
OP, in the name of science you should save what you want from this thread and post it in your forum thread.

Linking 4chan is bad form and blah blah blah, but this thread will fall off the board in a matter of hours and you will lose this discussion.

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>>30684561
Not to worry friend, /vp/ is linked to nyafuu archive now, so I can just screenshot the entire webpage and nothing will be lost. Thanks for your concern though.

>>30683029
From the two sources, Natures and IVs are locked when an egg is made unless you do something to drastically change it such as if it was previously randomized in natures, to hand off an everstone to force the natures to stay rigid. As for IVs, you just mentioned the trick with destiny knot.

We can go as far as saying, there's a separate save file in the game some where that will keep track of eggs among other things. Not that I have tried to reset the Festival Plaza for better results on say the lottery based things, but I'm sure there's something similar. The Lotto in Hau'oli City definitely makes you save so you can't really get around resetting that. It's interesting to think about.

Just thought I should mention I have been having the exact same results as OP, except for changing the parent that holds the destiny knot.
I have been using a Ditto holding destiny knot with Magikarp holding everstone. I then swapped the items, making Ditto hold the everstone and Magikarp holding the destiny knot, and received the exact same 5 eggs as the first time.
I should note that I did not reject the first egg when resetting for consistency, as I have tested rejecting multiple eggs before picking them up and each time the first egg after rejecting has been new, while eggs 2-5 have been the exact same as eggs 2-5 when not rejecting the first egg.

>>30685539
Huh, kinda reminds me of Undertale and how it remembers your actions and choices even though you reset to a previous save point when that specific thing never happened.. Could be the same case.

>>30685719
Hmm... Perhaps I mistested? Thanks for confirming at least something regarding the Knot. The last thing I want to do is spread misinformation.

>>30685719
Adding to this it seems when rejecting an egg it rolls a new one, then continues with the list. However, a test I just ran seems to ruin any theories I had, I can't find a pattern with it-

Reject 1st egg
Take 2nd egg- results in new egg
Take 3rd egg- results in egg 2 from post above
Reject 4th egg
Take 5th egg- results in new egg
Take 6th egg- results in new egg
Take 7th egg- results in new egg

>>30685719
It's probably because Destiny Knot doesn't determine which parent the IVs come from, merely that 5 IVs come from the parents, so switching holders doesn't force a new table.

So should I stay away from ranked multiplayer until I learn how to breed?

>>30685947
until you learn to pkhex, friend.

>>30685873
At the very least a new egg being rolled after rejecting one means the time machine method still works, as long as you reject the egg.

Would someone with pkhex be able to breed a box of something, check iv's, reset and do the same again to find out how many eggs are predetermined? Or are we going to have to go the old fashioned way with a spreadsheet?

Bumping for interest.

>>30686615
you can just do like Magikarps. Wouldn't take too long.

>>30687078
Depends on how many are predetermined, comparing 100+ magikarps on paper would be difficult

What if you take out the japanese Ditto and replace it with an same region Ditto? same results?

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I did a few experiments and am writing a pastebin with the results, with as much detail as I can to make sure everything is right. Have a Jigglypuff in the mean time.

>>30688676
Thank you.

Sorry for taking ages, typing out the numbers is a pain the ass. I'll investigate more in the morning when I wake up. Please run through experiments and document what you're doing, people.

http://pastebin.com/4Gp9Esm9

>>30689767
OP again. Damn, this is some dedication. Thank you very much!

I bookmarked the pastebin since it's quite late here as well but I also want to test what you've listed. I may not be able to until the end of the week unfortunately since I have finals coming up but I will post another thread sometime in the future, so keep an eye out.

>>30690203

Other party from earlier in the day that linked the thread and what not.

I haven't been resetting the eggs ( because I once did this for about 80 eggs and I regretted that so much that I rather not waste time again ), but through some curiosity with the Destiny knot and everstone, I found a few curious things.

I bred several hundred eggs for a shiny stufful and currently on growlithes. Things I have noticed is that sometimes an exact copy of the parent's IV are made whenever I use ditto as the other parent. What I mean is, I sometimes made multiple stuffuls with the parent stufful's IVs by accident. Here's what gets interesting is that if I was lucky to get a 6IV pokemon, if I had switch it out with the worse parent and bred from there, I would get several 6 IV pokemon faster and in a shorter amount of eggs. I made 18 6-IV stuffuls this way and it sounds crazy insane. I only tried this because I noticed that during the early stages when I wanted to get a parent with 4 IVs and then 5IVs, a IV clone of it would appear at once in about 20-30 eggs.

I'm about to experiment on this. I accidentally made a 6IV Growlithe way earlier than I expected, but it's of the wrong nature ( this is just purely on IVs so far, and nature locking will be next, which is another experiment in itself to see what nature order it will be ). My experiment will be to see how fast and predictable will it be to get a 6IV growlithe with the right nature using the 6IV Growlithe without the right nature and a chain of correct natured growlithes with bad IVs.


I want to see if my hypothesis about IV clones is correct. Because if it is, it'll be a discovery of a lifetime, but it will also ruin pokemon. There's no stopping people from just hacking some pokemon with 6IVs and breed an egg with it in no time with the intended IVs. This also goes for making certain pokemon have 0IVs in Attack or speed or whatever.

>>30691133
That's huge. Please do keep testing, because this is likely to affect shininess, gender, etc.

>>30691133
Matching what you said with what is on my pastebin above, I believe it's a case of randoming a combination of IV inheritance that gets you a 6IV Stufful, and you should be able to manipulate it to get any 6IV for a species.

Do you have the IV spread for the Ditto/Stufful parents that got you the 6IV Stuffuls? Or well, since you'll experiment with Growlithes, could you please keep a record of EVERY child's IV spread, in order? You can soft reset and play around with the parents to see if there is a pattern, say...

You breed a 6IV Growlithe and a random 0IV one, netting you, say, in order:

Child 1: 31/31/X/X/R/X
Child 2: X/X/R/X/31/31
Child 3: R/31/31/X/X/X
Child 4: X/X/31/R/31/X

Where 31 is an inheritance from the 6IV mon, X from the 0IV one, and R the randomly generated one, you could -probably- pull off a 5IV mon by chaining it in this way:

>Make Child 1
>Breed it with 6IV one to make a 31/31/R/X/31/31 (Let's call this Child 2*)
>Breed Child 2* with 6IV one to make a R/31/31/X/31/31 (Let's call this Child 3*)
>Breed Child 2* and Child 3*, making 31/31/31/R/31/31

If you're lucky and R is exactly 31, you just bred a 6IV mon from nothing in 4 eggs, or at least you made a 5IV mon. The catch is, you need to be able to keep these predictable chains going, and get lucky with them. Again, it would be VERY helpful if you could keep a record of every parent combination and child they make, in order.

>>30691355
Well, I had the question in mind about soft resetting shinies, but other people have tested it out already, so I have little to no doubt about it. If the system from Gen 6 is around where pokemon have certain hidden strings of data that can hatch into shinies when hatched from a game with the exact same sequence, then that would mean that egg that hatched shiny in your game definitively has that data sequence and no matter what, will always hatch shiny, even if you swap it out and make it a different pokemon species. I have no knowledge of any of that, any way to see it, since I don't hack. Would be easier if someone who did can take observations for us, but that falls into a bit of a tabooed area of cheating/hacking in the first place.


If anyone wants to try out the IV clone of the parent experiment, grab a 6IV ditto with destiny knot and grab any 3-4-5 IV minior. Your goal is to make a HP Fire SHINY minior. Separate your miniors that match into a separate area. I say move away from 5 since it's may be luck the IVs are the same, but it should still work since it's going to be hard to get the exact same IV missing from the exact same spot (say 5IVs missing attack and an offspring also being 5IVs, but missing from speed rather). And to be far, I hatced hundred of eggs to get my legit shiny minior, so it may have just been that I ran through nearly every combination and that things must repeat due to pigeon hole, but we won't know unless you all help try this out.

Even if things don't pander out, you can have a strong Minior ready for VGC. HP fire some ferrothorns or scizors who think they can wall you. Try something spicy like Hasty with Acrobatics/Shell Smash/Power Gem/Filler

>>30689767
Another thing I think you should test, though obviously after testing everything else: if A) quitting the game or B) powering down the system entirely (rather than soft resetting) changes the order, or if the order is actually saved somewhere in the game's memory.

>>30692409
I've turned off the console straight in the middle of hatching several times while testing with magikarps earlier, and they always ended up being the same, so I don't think it makes a difference to soft resetting.

So whenever you're MM'ing now, the best method is to breed a shitload of Magikarp until one is shiny (for the fast hatch times), then reset and swap out the parents for something you actually want?

>>30689767
Isn't the reason for the IV inversion is because of gender?

>>30694544
Needs testing, but maybe.

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>>30694693
Holy shit, how did I not think of this. You might be onto something here, since all Rowlets were male, and every other pokemon was female. I'll test this along with a couple other things like ability and gender inheriting as soon as I can.

So I'm breeding Porygon. My Porygon has Download - if I keep breeding, will I eventually get one with Trace, or is my factory broken and failed?

Is magikarp the fastest egg to hatch?

>>30699256
Yes, by far

I hatch Magikarp faster than I can get them from the Daycare girl

Bump for knowledge

Also I went to sleep. Will be on the Growlithes, but I may not take too much details on the IVs.

>>30698457
As far as I know, it's 50/50 for the two regular abilities on genderless pokemon. Keep trying.

>>30694379
Well then, that's rather concrete evidence for it being an internally saved list.
Thank you.

Growlithe dude here

Uhm... Currently on the Growlithe with perfect IVs without everstone.

None of the growlithes are up to my standards, but the results just really want to imply something. I'm sure

Natures:

Rash/Rash/Mild/Hardy/Relaxed/Impish/Naïve/Bashful/Lonely/Impish/Naughty/Impish/Relaxed/Mild/Naïve/Jolly/Quiet/Relaxed

Bad IVs:

speed/attack/speed/speed/defense/attack/speed/speed/sp.att/speed/speed/defense/sp.att/speed/attack/attack/none/attack


The speed of getting a 6IV pokemon seems to be on par with just being random. It's a 1/31 chance. The interesting this is that most of the growlithes tend to want to be slow or weak physically in terms of IVs.

Just food for thought for now.

>>30697704
So, I just ran a couple more tests. I'll post them here instead of pastebin since analysis should be simpler now. Continuing from the pastebin, where inheritance results for the 5 children were the deduced as being:

A/R/B/A/A/A
A/B/B/B/R/A
A/A/A/A/A/R
A/A/B/R/A/A
R/A/A/A/A/B

Where A is inheritance from Ditto, B from the other pokemon, and R a random value. For some reason, the results above had A and B inverted when B was female, so I ran a test with a female Pelipper and a male Gyarados, to be sure that is what is causing that flip. Results below, as well as the children's gender and ability, following the same notation as in the pastebin:

Parent A: 5/5/5/5/5/5 @ everstone (ditto)
Parent B: 4/2/2/2/2/2 @ destiny knot (female pelipper with drizzle)
Children:
4/1/5/2/2/2 -> B/R/A/B/B/B | female, same ability as parent
4/5/5/5/2/2 -> B/A/A/A/R/B | male, same ability as parent
4/2/2/2/2/1 -> B/B/B/B/B/R | male, different ability
4/2/5/3/2/2 -> B/B/A/R/B/B | female, same ability as parent
3/2/2/2/2/5 -> R/B/B/B/B/A | male, different ability

Parent A: 5/5/5/5/5/5 @ everstone (ditto)
Parent B: 1/1/1/1/1/1 @ destiny knot (male gyarados)
Children:
5/1/1/5/5/5 -> A/R/B/A/A/A | female
5/1/1/1/2/5 -> A/B/B/B/R/A | male
5/5/5/5/5/1 -> A/A/A/A/A/R | male
5/5/1/3/5/5 -> A/A/B/R/A/A | female
3/5/5/5/5/1 -> R/A/A/A/A/B | male

We can conclude that changing the gender of the non-ditto parent swaps out ditto's role in the Destiny Knot, and that apprently, the child's gender is always fixed as well, so long as you keep the gender ratio intact (further testing needed, just a hunch). It wasnt tested, but this is probably the case for a chain larger than 5 eggs, we dont know right now how many eggs we can "predict". Next, I'll pair up ditto and female parents that can have different abilities to see if there is a pattern to the inherited ability. Note that a male parent would have different odds of passing down its ability, so I'll test exclusively with females.

>>30701275
Woah, now I know Pokemon is srs business. I am clueless as to what you are talking about.

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>>30701275
>A/A/B/R/A/A
THE JAPANESE KNOW

>>30698457
It's not 50/50, it's more like 80/20. It can get pretty frustrating, but you can definitely get the other ability (I have a Trace Porygon, and all in-game breeding stock was Download)

>>30701275
Instant egg in daycare+PKHeX here, gonna accept increasing amounts of eggs (5, 10, 20, 64, 128, 256, possibly 512) and see if the predictable chain ever breaks or the Day Care seed ever changes

>>30701299
It's not that complicated, I just use a shorter notation that probably confuses everything. I assume you know how the destiny knot works, so I guess I'll just explain what all those letters and numbers mean in more detail:

The IV judge gives your pokemon one of six possible "grades" for a stat depending on its value:
No good (0)
Decent (1-15)
Pretty Good (16-25)
Very Good (26-29)
Fantastic (30)
Best(31)

What I do is simply assign each grade to a number so I dont have to type them out. 0 is No Good and 5 is Best. So, for example, a pokemon with a 31/21/0/9/12/30 spread would be 5/2/0/1/1/4. Then, by noting down the parents' spread and a child's spread, we can compare them and deduce which stat was randomly generated by the Destiny Knot, as well as which stat was inherited from who. I chose to label each parent with a letter, A and B, and the random stat with a R. For example:

Parent A: 5/5/5/5/5/5
Parent B: 1/1/1/1/1/1
Child: 1/1/5/5/2/1

Since neither parent could pass down a 2 in SpDef, it was the randomly generated stat. Looking at the child's stats, we can easily deduce HP, Atk and Spd came from B, while Def and SpAtk came from A. Thus, we can rewrite a child's IVs as B/B/A/A/R/B.

What my post shows is that the results from pastebin had a specific pattern to each child, and that the pattern repeated itself in this new experiment's children. Hopefully this clears up a bit what I'm doing to you and anyone else that got confused by my arbitrary notation.

>>30701510
I'm not sure how PkHex works, but it could be that by forcing the game to make an egg via code could interfere with the generated IVs in the list. Just to mention it is a possibility, and thanks for your efforts!

>>30701443
Bulbapedia disagrees with you. It should be 80/20 only if the parent breeding with a Ditto is female, OR if the Porygon had its HA. Since Porygon is genderless, I'd assume that wouldnt be the case. Unless there's some wizardry going on where the game goes off not by the pokemon's actual gender, but by its gender value (which is ignored in the case of genderless pokemon). http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_breeding#Inheriting_Abilities

>>30701634
I'm just using PKHeX to compare each batch with each other, it's a lot faster to check what every single egg will hatch into through a program than it is to hatch them all manually.

Has anyone noticed weird things with how balls are passed down.

I was breeding two rockruff, the female was in a regular pokeball and the male was in a moonball, the first two eggs came out in moonballs but all the ones after were in pokeballs. I can't remember if it went back to moon balls if I took them out and put them back in though, I think so, but only for two eggs again.

>>30702142
According to bulbapedia, things changed this generation:
>Starting in Generation VI, the Poké Ball of the female Pokémon will be passed down to its offspring. In Generation VII, if a male and female Pokémon of the same species are bred, the offspring will have an equal chance of inheriting either parent's Poké Ball.

>>30702435
Huh, that's pretty cool. Makes it way easier to try and breed HA into different balls as well.

>>30701744
Any results? I'm curious as to how long the sequential 'list' of eggs goes on for. If it's coded to just be infinity, that's both good and bad news.

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I'm monitoring this thread

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>>30701275
Something VERY weird just happened. So I repeated the process with a female Toucannon with Keen Eye, and got the following results:

B/R/A/B/B/B | female, same ability as parent
B/A/A/A/R/B | male, different ability
B/B/B/B/B/R | male, same ability as parent
B/B/A/R/B/B | female, same ability as parent
R/B/B/B/B/A | male, same ability as parent

So the IVs matched, as well as gender, cool. The ability sequence did not, since children 2, 3 and 5 inherited different sets of abilities between the female pelipper experiment and this one. Further testing on ability is necessary.

So I decided to check what happens to gender when I put up a pokemon that can only be female. Picked up a Lilligant, which is 100% female, with Chlorophyll. The resulting IVs did NOT match for some children, and ability, again, didnt match:

Parent A: 5/5/5/5/5/5 @ everystone (ditto)
Parent B: 1/1/3/1/1/4 @ destiny knot (lilligant with chlorophyll)
Children:
2/1/5/1/5/5 -> R/B/A/B/A/A -> HP and Atk got swapped?
1/5/5/5/2/4 -> B/A/A/A/R/B -> Matches expected result exactly
1/1/3/1/1/4 -> 5 inheritances from B as expected, but the random stat changed?
1/1/3/3/5/5 -> B/B/B/R/A/A -> Differs a lot from the expected result
3/1/3/1/1/5 -> R/B/B/B/B/A -> Matches expected result exactly

Oh and the abilities for the children always matched the parent's Chlorophyll. What a mess. Next, I'll breed another 50/50 gender, female, with two abilities to check for similarities with pelipper/toucannon results, and another female only with two abilities to check for coincidences with lilligant results.

Scientific bump

I got a shiny female salandit in less than 15 eggs, got a shiny mimikyu in almost two boxes and currently im at like 4 - 5 boxes of Axew and still no shiny :(

Its all luck based.

>>30703290
Alright, we're up to something now. I repeated the process with a female Gumshoos with Stakeout and with a female Blissey with Natural Cure. The results matched the Toucannon and Lilligant ones, respectively, exactly:

Parent: 1/1/1/1/2/2 Female Gumshoos with Stakeout
1/1/5/1/2/2 -> B/R/A/B/B/B | female, same ability
1/5/5/5/2/2 -> B/A/A/A/R/B | male, other ability
1/1/1/1/2/1 -> B/B/B/B/B/R | male, same ability
1/1/5/3/2/2 -> B/B/A/R/B/B | female, same ability
3/1/1/1/2/5 -> R/B/B/B/B/A | male same ability

Parent: 5/1/1/3/2/5 -> Female Blissey with Natural Cure
2/1/5/3/5/5 -> R/B/A/B/A/A
5/5/5/5/2/5 -> B/A/A/A/R/B
5/1/1/1/2/5 -> B/B/B/R/B/B
5/1/1/3/5/5 -> B/B/B/R/A/A
3/1/1/3/2/5 -> R/B/B/B/B/A
Everyone had Natural Cure.

So my conclusions regarding gender is as follows:
>Between species with same male/female ratio, gender and IVs follow a fixed pattern
>Swapping the gender ratio slightly changes the IV inheritance in some unknown way

The new results also seem to point in the direction that abilities also follow a predictable pattern. Maybe I fucked something up in the Pelipper experiment way back? The only difference I can see is that Pelipper had Drizzle, and Wingull has Hydration instead of Drizzle for a secondary ability. So for the next experiment, I'll pick two more species with differing abilities between parent/child and see how the ability inheritance goes. It could be that I fucked something up way back, who knows.

>>30704215
Whether or not you get a shiny is luck based, there's no denying or manipulating it. What (at least I) am trying to accomplish with this is manipulate which species, gender, IVs and ability that shiny will be, or even build a chain of IV breeding that will net a 5/6IV mon in as few eggs as possible.

>>30704215
Read a bit of the thread, friend.

This is about how eggs are predetermined to a large degree. Currently people are testing for how Destiny Knot and gender manipulates IVs passed down.

Let's use your example. You got your shiny female Salandit in less than 15 eggs, yeah? With the knowledge we have currently, let's say you had saved before you picked up those 15 eggs and reset the game. If you boot up the game again and switch your parent Salandit (let's say you were using Salandit and Ditto) and replaced with with, say, a Mudbray, theoretically the exact amount of eggs it took for your shiny Salandit will also result in a shiny Mudbray. See >>30678318 for this in detail.

>>30704361
Is doing a lot of hard work to see if gender will shake up the properties of an egg instead of getting the same eggs every time, so we can see if manipulating IVs passed down, Hidden Power type, and yes, even shininess, is a possibility.

Screw you bastard, 5 boxes is nothing compared to 40 boxes of sad Pikachu imitations ;_;7

>>30701362
WE KNEW IT LADS
GET THE BOMBS

>>30701675

Bulba disagrees with me, but you can test it yourself pretty easily - trace porygon usually breeds trace porygon for example.

IIRC, ditto + any pokemon with non hidden ability: 80% chance to pass down ability, 20% for other ability. Ditto + HA pokemon: 60% chance, 20% chance for either other ability.

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>>30701275
>>30703290
>>30704361
Holy shit.

This thread is gonna blow breeding strategies wide open, ESPECIALLY for shinies. You're absolutely onto something huge here.

I'm certain that gender ratio matters.
Hatched a shiny Cutiefly while breeding for IVs. (Parents: 6IV Destiny Knot Ditto and 3IV Everstone Cutiefly)
SR'd and swap the Cutiefly with a Minior. 100 eggs later and no black space rock. ;_;

>>30705671
Could you please soft reset and see if other species with the same gender ratio get you a shiny? And if that shiny has the same IVs everytime, even if you swap parents (same species or not)? That'd help a lot with shedding some light on what affects shininess.

>>30705732
Unfortunately I already saved but I'll try again with Cutiefly after I get my deep space Minior.

>>30705671
>>30705732
>>30705887
We DESPERATELY need some more people with access to PkHex to test this stuff.

Do you think anyone like SciresM, KazoWAR, or Kaphotics would be interested enough in looking into this?

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>>30704361
More interesting results, lads. This time, I used a Female A-Marowak with Lightningrod and a Porygon-Z with Adaptability. In both cases, the base species has a different ability than the evolved one, in either slot: Cubone gets Rock Head instead of Cursed Body and Porygon gets Trace instead of Adaptability. I was going to test with two 50/50 gender species but I couldnt find one that had these properties. Help with other alternatives would be appreciated. Anyway, results:

Parent: 3/1/1/1/1/1 -> Female Marowak with Lightningrod
3/1/5/1/1/1 -> B/R/A/B/B/B | female, same ability
3/5/5/5/2/1 -> B/A/A/A/R/B | male, same ability
3/1/1/1/1/1 -> B/B/B/B/B/R | male, other ability
3/1/5/3/1/1 -> B/B/A/R/B/B | female, same ability
3/1/1/1/1/5 -> R/B/B/B/B/A | male, other ability

Parent: 2/2/1/0/3/4 -> PorygonZ with Adaptability
2/5/1/5/3/4 -> R/A/B/A/B/B | same ability
5/2/1/0/2/5 -> A/B/B/B/R/A | same ability
5/5/5/1/5/5 -> A/A/A/R/A/A | same ability
5/5/5/3/3/4 -> A/A/A/R/B/B | same ability
3/5/5/5/5/4 -> R/A/A/A/A/B | same ability

So, interestingly, the Marowak experiment had the EXACT same results as the Pelipper experiment, and the PorygonZ one had the EXACT same results as the Lilligant/Blissey experiments. So, these results seem to point in the direction that if there is a change in the abilities between child and parent, IVs and gender do not change, but abilities do, in a predicable way. However, if you change the gender ratio, then that disturbance with abilities is not observed, either by luck with the experiments or because it doesn't really happen.

Unfortunately, I cannot think of any more species that have this special case for abilities, like Porygon, Marowak and Pelipper did, so it's hard to test. If you guys come up with another combo, let me know.

As for the next batch of experiments, I wanted to test what happens if I switch over to 100% male gender ratio instead of 100% female, as well as another genderless species.

>>30706141
PID is set by the main RNG thus shinies are not exploitable

try restoring the same file and comparing egg results, the PID will be different each time.

https://twitter.com/pokemon_PhD/status/804245701119143936

>>30706175
Just a small correction there, the Porygon experiment was actually the exact same as the Lilligant and Blissey ones, except with the usual parent A and B reversal, as if Porygon was male. Abilities result was the same.

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>>30706622
More results that dont really confirm anything and only raise more questions. I used a Braviary, which can only be male, that had Sheer Force, and a Starmie that had Natural Cure. Results below:

Parent: 1/3/2/1/4/3 -> Male Braviary with Sheer Force
2/5/2/5/4/3 -> R/A/B/A/B/B | other ability
5/3/2/1/2/5 -> A/B/B/B/R/A | same ability
5/5/5/1/5/5 -> A/A/A/R/A/A | same ability
5/5/5/3/4/3 -> A/A/A/R/B/B | same ability
3/5/5/5/5/3 -> R/A/A/A/A/B | other ability

Parent: 1/5/1/2/2/2 -> Starmie Natural Cure
2/5/1/5/2/2 -> R/A/B/A/B/B | other ability
5/5/1/2/2/5 -> A/B/B/B/R/A | same ability
5/5/5/1/5/5 -> A/A/A/R/A/A | same ability
5/5/5/3/2/2 -> A/A/A/R/B/B | same ability
3/5/5/5/5/2 -> R/A/A/A/A/B | other ability

IVs matched exactly with the Porygon experiment, which was equal to the Lilligant/Blissey ones except with parents A and B reversed, so it seems that having a Male only or a Genderless species will yield results similar to Female only, except with that flip. I'm confident that the genderless one is uncertain though, since it could be considered either "100% male" or "100% female", but that would require even more testing.

What is interesting is that we got a completely new ability sequence. I'm starting to question whether there is a pattern to inherited abilities or not. It seems to be drawing randomly from a pool of options, and I'm just seeing connections which arent really there. The groups with same results were:

>Pelipper / Marowak
>Toucannnon / Gumshoos
>Lilligant / Blissey / PorygonZ
>Braviary / Starmie

Also to note, the original experiments had Rowlets, who have a 87.5/12.5 gender ratio, and did not have the resulting IV inheritance disturbed at all, it matched perfectly with a 50/50 ratio. I'll test next how a 12.5/87.5 ratio works. After that I guess I'll redo most things with 10 eggs instead to have more data to compare. That way, I can try to deduce the perturbations in the IV inheritance, as well as group abilities more precisely.

>>30707449
Turns out there are no 12.5/87.5 pokemon available in the game (only Pyroar has this ratio). Using 33.3/66.7 instead.

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>>30707624
Shit I meant 25/75

bomp

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>>30707647
Alright, same deal as ever. Used a Female Clefable with Magic Guard and a Female Granbull with Quick Feet (which becomes Run Away on Snubbul, same deal as Marowak and Pelipper before). Results:

Parent: 2/1/0/1/4/2 -> Female Clefable with Magic Guard
2/1/5/1/4/2 -> B/R/A/B/B/B | female, same ability
2/5/5/5/2/2 -> B/A/A/A/R/B | male, same ability
2/1/0/1/4/1 -> B/B/B/B/B/R | male, other ability
2/1/5/3/4/2 -> B/B/A/R/B/B | female, same ability
3/1/0/1/4/5 -> R/B/B/B/B/A | male, other ability

Parent: 1/1/1/1/2/5 -> Female Granbull with Quick Feet
1/1/5/1/2/5 -> B/R/A/B/B/B | female, same ability
1/5/5/5/2/5 -> B/A/A/A/R/B | male, same ability
1/1/1/1/2/1 -> B/B/B/B/B/R | male, other ability
1/1/5/3/2/5 -> B/B/A/R/B/B | female, same ability
3/1/1/1/2/5 -> R/B/B/B/B/A | male, other ability

Alright, so we have reached something final and absolute regarding IVs and gender:

There are two "groups" for IV inheritance, pokemon that can have either gender and pokemon that can only have one gender or are genderless. Swapping parents in the same group will yield the same IV spread and gender distribution over the eggs. If you swap groups, there are some disturbances in the IV spread. It should be noted that breeding with Ditto can alter who inherits IVs from who since it can "be" either male or female, and the Destiny Knot follows a specific order (say, male always comes first). This can then be used to manipulate IVs in a way that 5/6IV children can be obtained fairly quickly.

The whole problem is abilities. I can't see a pattern to them, there are coincidences, but I need a larger sample size to make any valid conclusions. Even then, stuff isn't making much sense anyway, so I cant say for sure whether we can manipulate abilities or not. I'm gonna take a break here and do other things, but I will come back way later to test other things like swapping parents between eggs rather than generating sets of eggs for each parent, and taking out Ditto from the picture.

>>30708756
Ditto acts as the 'female' whenever it's breeding with another Pokemon, so perhaps that's why there are anomalies when breeding with Ditto vs. breeding with a pokemon of similar species?

So from what I understoon of this, the best method to MM shinies this gen is:
>obtain shiny charm
>put Magikarp with a foreign mon in the day care
>breed shitton of eggs, saving every 20 hatches or so
>when you encounter a shiny, soft reset, then swap out the parents (with the same gender ratio)
>???
>profit

>>30708919
Yup, however it only will work with gender ratios of 50/50 as you said. If there are Pokemon with other gender ratios with egg steps less than 5120 then they should be catalogued.

>>30708820
Everything I've done was always Ditto and something. Whenever I paired Ditto with a female pokemon instead of a male one, the Destiny Knot swapped the inheritances and, say, if HP came from the other mon it'd now come from Ditto, and the other way around. This seems to be because Ditto now acts as a male and the Destiny Knot has an order of precendence, which would be, say, male first.

>>30708919
We havent confirmed it works with shininess the same way it works for IVs, but if the previous posts from the thread are to be believed, then it should work if you dont swap too many variables. We need someone with PkHex to test shininess more throughly, or someone very dedicated to hatch a MM shiny and soft reset a lot so we can test how it can be manipulated.
Tl;dr - "Probably"

>>30709015
>This seems to be because Ditto now acts as a male and the Destiny Knot has an order of precendence, which would be, say, male first

Oh, that's very peculiar. So it seems this game has changed whether Ditto counts as the 'male' or 'female'.

>>30709015
To add to that, maybe shiny manipulation also works if you swap gender ratios, but keep them in the same "group", as in, if the original shiny could be either male or female, any species that can have male and female will also work, even at different odds (say, Rowlet for a Salandit), or if the original shiny was genderless, you can swap it with a pokemon species that has to be of a specific gender (say, Magnemite and Happiny). This is still untested though, so keep to same gender ratio for now.

>>30709126
OP here. I gave up on MMing Mimikyu a while ago because I reset my game after hatching 10 boxes worth without saving and now going for shiny Minior. Gonna see if I get a shiny within those ten boxes. If so then it confirms the whole gender ratio fiasco regarding shininess

>>30701510
Are you still at this? Knowing where or whether the predetermined list ends is one of the most important parts

probability bump

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>>30709126
I just realized I fucked up by saying Rowlet and Salandit since they have the same gender ratios, what I meant is something like Rowlet and Cleffa, one being more likely to be male, the other female.

>>30709015
What about >>30678318?

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So i felt free to put most of OP's info on a spreadsheet and I think it sheds a bit more light on how abilities and IVs work. The IV inheritance changes slightly when working with Genderless/Male only/Female only species, while it remains the same with normal species.

And the ability seems to depend on whether the parents ability occupies the first or second slot of the species' ability.

We would have to make more testing to see if it is true, but unfortunately I'm on a 100 chain and dont want to break it.

>>30712732
Just wanted to point out OP and the person doing the IV testing are different people

Nice catch on the 1st/2nd ability slot, I was focusing more on it being the same ability from the parent rather than it being the same slot. The data sure seems to make a lot more sense now, and from that we could assume there are 4 "states" an egg could be in, based on the gender ratio "group" and parent's ability slot when breeding with a Ditto. Like you said, needs more testing.

If we can deduce how changing an egg's "state" by changing its parents affects the IV spread and the ability inheritance, we could potentially breed any pokemon with a 5/6IV spread with either of its abilities in as few as 5-10 eggs, being a bit optimistic. If we factor in shininess, this could be even better.

I'm curious to check what happens now if Ditto isn't a parent and the other parent could, potentially, pass down its ability. Would breeding same species pokemon matter? Or maybe different species, same egg group could follow the case where the male is a "Ditto". Maybe only the female matters if there is no Ditto involved.

Another factor is HA. What happens if the not-Ditto pokemon has its HA? And just like above, what would happen if there was no Ditto, but the parents had HA? So much to be tested.

Hopefully this will inspire someone other than me and OP to test things for the sake of answering those questions. The chance that we can manipulate everything after enough math could be very high.

>>30713456
Perhaps a test should be run with the same pokemon and gender as one of the previous tests, but different ability, and then one that's same gender, Hidden Ability? And just to have the data in there, same ability and species, opposite gender

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>>30712732
Haha, don't give me credit (OP), give >>30689767
this lovely anon the credit. They've been working real hard while I've been studying for finals.

>>30713456
The thing is most of this inheritance stuff was already known last gen, ala time machine method, the mechanic that has changed though is that the game decides this stuff in batches rather than one at a time, but we don't know how big each batch is or how/if it can be changed. I appreciate the tests though, specifics are always useful, especially regarding abilities.

>>30706325
Maybe it's because I misunderstand, but what's happening here >>30678318 seems to not match up with what you're saying. Could you or someone elaborate more if possible?

>>30713725
I think he may mean the spread is not exploitable? Once the game decides a spread is shiny changing gender ratio, items, etc will mean it's not shiny, but soft resetting and changing parents that kept those requirements resulted in the pokemon still being shiny, I know personally that worked in gen 6

>>30713905
Ah that makes a lot more sense. I must have misread.

That kind of sucks but at the same time it makes breeding for IVs a tad more convenient depending on gender ratios and whatnot.

>>30713702
I didn't get too involved with gen 6 breeding, how much of this happened last gen as well? Was there this change in IV/ability inheritance by changing gender ratios?

>>30714013
Yes, I didn't get too deep into abilities, but the game had 2 types of spreads, one for gendered pokemon and one for single/genderless pokemon, the same egg spread could change with those kinds of parents

Out of curiosity, does anything change if you go and do something else before breeding? Like fighting a bunch of wilds?
If you hatched out five eggs, SRd to before you hatched them, fought a dozen wild pokemon, and then put the exact same pair of pokemon into the nursery, would you get the same eggs?
I'm mostly wondering if the variables being used for eggs is used ONLY for eggs or if it's being used for other stuff as well.

>>30713456
I stopped contributing with the IVs. I sent all my Growlithes to hell.

And I think I noted at least 4 different people doing some testing here.


>>30713702
And I think we went past Gen 6 by saying that soft resets will not work like they do in Gen 6 where after the first egg, every subsequent egg would have reset in Gen 6, whereas now in Gen 7, soft reset wastes your time and the eggs that you hatch are rigid unless you change the pokemon using one of the methods in this thread. That is why this thread is still important and relevant. The breeding mechanic is still new, ven if it's a few details more than last gen. New is new.

Yes, yes, but how can I exploit this?

>>30715799
I believe something like >>30691461 for quick 6IVs. I'm not sure how it pans out for shiny manipulation

Magikarp anon from earlier here, now have a save file before a shiny egg is created, unfortunately random stat is a really bad SpAtt but what are you gonna do. Funny thing is I've been time machining for days and rejecting the egg each time whereas if I'd just let the list do its thing I would have gotten it in 20 eggs. Currently testing gender ratios and with/without destiny knot and everstone.

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE

That Shiny Mimikyu didn't come up within the 10 boxes I hatched and reset. But the shiny Minior? Got it within 6.5 boxes!

Gonna test if it works with genderless (Dhelmise) and pokemon with genders.

Sadly I don't know the exact IVs passed down, but I know that all the stats are perfect save for HP (pretty good) so let's see what happens.

>>30716883
Good timing, I just tried minior as well and it is shiny and uses the 2nd spread, with the random stat being HP rather than SpAtt when using gendered pokemon.

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>>30716883
>>30716992
Nice, good job. If you can, test out male/female only pokemon. If it matches exactly with the genderless shiny, we could confirm at least that there are 2 groups for shiny manipulating based on the gender ratio by itself.

Do you guys have any videos or something on how to get perfect iv's masuda methoding? i have a foreign ditto but it's only got 3 perfect ivs i think.

Holy shit. I didn't think anyone would take my suggestion of using Minior and trying to make it Shiny. You all make me so proud!

>>30716883
Fuck me, scratch all that. I inconveniently managed to save as soon as I obtained the shiny egg, with saving for every .5 boxes hatched.

I'm really angry at myself. On behalf of all other anons testing, I am so sorry to let you down.

This however DOES confirm a couple things. That gender ratios have their own set of 'eggs' generated that are separate from other gender ratios, and that shininess IS INDEED one of the factors along with IVs, ability, and gender that are predetermined in an egg 'list' or 'seed' specific to that gender ratio. (E.x. I hatched 10 boxes of Mimikyus that have a 50/50 gender ratio, no shiny and I reset back to when I never hatched those eggs. Shiny Minior that's genderless however, appeared after hatching 6.5 box worth of pokemon).

>>30716883
Excellent!
And thank you for the tests, I was actually going to begin breeding Dhelmise, so your findings will be perfect for me.

>>30717121
Whoo! In the name of Pokemon Science you did amazing. This is great, but I would expect those who straight up breed for shinies to not want to reset and just continue with the next 100 boxes until they do their shiny pokemon.

A big thank you for testing Anon. You deserve a big rest.

>>30717121
It's alright man, you hatched like 500 eggs in a row, you must be tired. Thanks for the effort!

And yes, that does confirm that the eggs follow at least two separate sets for shininess, just like IVs. Hopefully the other anon can add to your results and see what else we can manipulate. I wish I could test more but I'm stuck working until probably wednesday since I didnt get shit done on the weekend, as usual.

>>30717226
Thank you kind anon, and a big thanks to the anon who's been doing hours upon hours of testing with genders and destiny knot. He's the true hero in this tale.

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>>30717245
Seriously though, thank you to everyone participating in this thread. Everyone's contributions have helped in some way.

I hope someday someone with pkHex and a bit of curiosity comes along to save us the trouble of all this manual testing. This seems like something worth looking into for sure.

As a bonus, have my newly hatched shiny Minior! I'm thinking of naming it Licorice, or Corpus (Necrozma's motif).

>>30717384
I have pkHex but am chaining right now, if it breaks, what is it you would need me to do exactly?

>>30717384
>>30717427
Also, congrats on the shiny, really dig shiny minior

>>30717427
What >>30701744 was trying to do, generate a shitload of eggs with Ditto holding Destiny Knot and another pokemon as parents; until a shiny is generated. Then, reset all that egg hatching and do it again, this time with a pokemon that has a different gender ratio as the parent and see if the shiny will come up in he exact amount of eggs it took to get the shiny in the first go-around.

Not sure how savvy you are with PkHex but any amount of help will be appreciated.

Also see pastebin anon's stuff both in pastebin and in the rest of his thread to confirm his theories.

Good luck with your chain by the way!

>>30717451
>>30717572
Rest of this* thread

And thank you! One of my favorite shinies as of late, it might surpass Kantonian shiny Ninetales for me.

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So how can we benefit from all this?

>>30717572
>>30717602
I can do that no problems, hopefully this chain goes well and then I can be finished soon so I can get to testing, seems like this could be ridiculously useful if we figured out all the mechanics.

>>30717681
tl;dr don't get lazy and reset after hatching a fuckload of boxes for shinies, release them all to clear up space.

Alternatively, if you were to hunt for multiple shinies with different gender ratios, you can hatch a bunch of eggs and if no shiny, you can reset and see if you instead get a shiny for a pokemon with a different gender ratio.

Also a the IV stuff pastebin anon and Growlithe anon covered earlier.

>>30717695
Thank you PkHex bro, much much appreciated. I'm actually going to be now since it's 12am here and I have two finals tomorrow, so good luck with your search.

But first, I gotta release all these Miniors....

>>30717842
Good luck with your finals and thanks for your work! You've more than earned your rest.

Ok, thought I should start with the basics. I have been breeding a JAP Ditto holding a destiny knot with an ENG Magikarp holding an everstone and hatching an entire box and saving in between, taking magikarp out each time to make sure I don't miss an egg. I got my shiny on the 29th egg on box god knows what and reset and it was the same spot, which means the game predetermines at least 30 eggs in advance, which doesn't help much, but there it is.

I then swapped magikarp for every gender ratio available including dhelmise for that one anon, and each time the offspring was shiny, which means it does not play a part in the shiny id and he has nothing to worry about.

What DOES play a part in the shiny id is the Masuda Method and the Destiny Knot. Taking the everstone away made no difference, but removing the destiny knot entirely made the offspring not shiny. Swapping the items on parents made no difference, but removing the destiny knot changes the shiny id and results in a non-shiny egg.

The same applies for the Masuda Method, if the parents are not from different regions the egg is no longer shiny.

>>30717121
Sorry to hear that OP, at least you saved with an awesome shiny.

>>30717451
The game seems to predetermine egg hatches in batches, we need to know how many it predetermines and if there is a way to change the current list. This anon here was trying to help with that >>30701510

>>30718023
Wow, that's massive. So as long as we can figure out how many eggs the game predetermines in advance, we could theoretically get a shiny with any pokemon through the magikarp method or manipulate the list to get them quicker?

>>30718140
Possibly, we need to figure out what affects the list first.

>>30717842
I've realised that my findings don't mesh with the OP resetting and finding a shiny with a different gender ratio, but it definitely doesn't affect my shiny egg. Is it possible you bred past the predetermined list after a few boxes and actually entered a new list of eggs?

>>30718023
Doesn't that go against what >>30716883 this anon reported? I guess maybe if one species was using MM and the other wasn't, then there would be no contradictions. Either way, good to know at least 30 eggs are predetermined.

>>30718205

I've got a feeling it may be that they changed the predetermined list as I said here since they had bred at least 6 boxes >>30718202
But you do bring up a good point with the Masuda Method, I'm not sure if the OP was using it

>>30718202
>>30718261
Just wanted to note my questions about the list were mostly rhetorical since we don't know how the list works yet, I'm not actually expecting an answer

I'm going to go back on this >>30700858 experiment. Growlithe dude won't be giving up I guess. Also, I'll use >>30701275 's rating system for IVs.

I'm actually going to want to end up with a Shiny Gothitelle. So I'll need to start with getting a decent one with 6IVs and then the nature. Any specifics you all want me to document in better details this time?

I'll be using a foreign 6IV ditto with the destiny knot.

This was exploitable to a degree in XY. I remember breeding Magikarp until you got one with the inherited IVs from the parents you wanted, then swapping the parents for something with a longer hatch cycle and it would inherit the same IVs

Just to visualize this:
>Hatch Magikarp until you get a pokemon with these IVs: (A for mother, B for father)
A/X/B/A/A/B
>Reset game to point just before that egg was generated
>Swap parents for female bagon with 31/X/X/31/31/X and male with X/X/31/X/X/31
>First egg is a 31/X/31/31/31/31 bagon

>>30718687
Yeah, its the same system, except now rather than only the next egg IV's, etc being predetermined, the game has predetermined a whole list of eggs

>>30718669
I think we have pretty much established that IVs and gender are predetermined based on the gender ratio only, which kinda makes sense since the game would need to reroll at least gender to make sure you dont end up with something absurd like a male Blissey, and rerolls IVs in the process.

You could try experimenting with swapping out parents midsequence, for example. Everything that has been tested was always sequences of X eggs from the same parent being compared, we still don't know for sure whether swapping parents between rolls affects the list. It probably doesn't, but it'd be nice to try. I guess finding new ways to generate a new list could help as well, like trying to force a new list by dropping MM. Anything helps, there's still a lot we don't know.

Bump. Still chaining, will test later.

Could someone do the following test, see what happens?
Ten eggs with Parent A and Parent B (Doesn't matter as long as they're compatable), one holding the knot.
Reset.
Five eggs with same parents, no knot, then five eggs with same parents, with knot again.
Will the last five be the first five of the original sequence? The second five? Something else entirely?
Everstone if desired to reduce randomness.
(can't do it myself at the moment, unfortunately)

>>30679227
it's 80% since Gen 6 IIRC

at least all of my HA females get me HA babies most of the time when breeding with dittos

Bump for info and testers

>read this thread
>think of all the eggs i told the caretaker to keep
sooooo, one could have been a shiny seed? and i skipped it? Fuck.

>>30723670
Maybe I'm reading everything wrong, but so far my understanding is that shiny generation is not affect by any changes except going on or off the Masuda Method and completely removing the Destiny Knot. >>30718023


If an egg doesn't show up as shiny when you check it, it's never going to be shiny unless you change those things. And if you do, you're not any more likely to have it change to a Shiny on the new list than you were before. Less so, if you're going off the Masuda method.

So far, the only real benefit from this, breeding-wise, is that you can breed really fast hatching mons to blaze through the list until you get the set up you want and then switch out the parents to the slower hatching one you want. Overall, the chances are still the same when everything is made, there's no manipulating that, but because things are generated so far in advance, you can use that knowledge a bit to manipulate exactly what is getting the stuff that is generated. What is a new manipulation is, if you have a 6IV ditto, you can slot it in to switch what is taken from what "parent" because Ditto counts differently. So you can, if you get a pattern that would work if you reverse the parents, you can switch Ditto in to make that happen.

I'm am slightly confused about the gender ration groups. I'm seeing two conclusions. One is that there's two gender ratio groups in this, gender unknown and mono gendered species and everything else. These two groups have the lists stay the same as long as you don't switch between them. >>30708756

But I'm also seeing it said that there's a group for every gender ratio and lists change if you switch between those. >>30717121 This is the one that makes more sense to me, since changing gender ratios should logically change the list to reflect the new chances of the eggs being one gender or the other.

Bump, don't let this die, guys.

Any new findings?

>>30726237
No, sorry, I've just been too busy to, but I will get to it eventually, I want to further test gender ratios and how they impact egg rolls

>>30725371
Should this get a sticky for a while given that it's the only quality thread on this board and may have discovered something amazing

>>30727602
Bump, and haha yeah I agree. Ever since Smogon released Pokebank OU usage stats it's been nothing but shitposting all the livelong day.

So since resetting doesn't matter, if I were to save after every Magikarp egg until I get a shiny, and then reset and switch Magikarp for a different 50/50 gender Pokemon, regardless of whether the gender matches the Karp or not, I'll get the shiny on the first egg? I just want to make sure I understand correctly so I don't fuck up such a useful method.

>>30729163
We cant tell you for sure since we havent coined what affects shininess and what doesn't, but it should work. What you would do is:
>put ditto in daycare
>save
>put magikarp in daycare
>breed shiny magikarp, count how many eggs
>soft reset
>put whatever you want in daycare
>breed shiny whatever in exactly as many eggs as it took magikarp

Maybe after a certain number of eggs it rerolls the list and it wont work. Maybe some unknown variable changes when you swap parents and it wont work.

You should definitely try and report to us your results though. Even if it turns out to be a waste of time and you get no shiny, a negative result might help us out a lot.

Guys.
What if something like this also affects encounter rates.
People have been saying those feel off too - though I don't think there's a good way to test it without a bit of tool assistance.

>>30718205
OP here, yes I was using MM with a Japanese shiny Ditto and my own Minior. I'd be a madman if I wasn't.

>>30718202
Quite possible. The only non-convoluted method of finding out is waiting for PkHex anon to report back with some findings. All I can tell you is I bred more Mimikyu than I did Minior and got a shiny with the Minior test.

If we don't get any answers from PkHex anons or Growlithe guy in the near future, I'l test it myself by MMing Magikarp. This time I'll save after hatching every batch of 5 eggs instead of the idiotic way I was doing it before.

Everyone mostly have day jobs or they went to sleep. Give them some time. No need to rush breeding mechanics. This should stay casual and comfy.

>>30731160
Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I meant that if we don't get any valuable data from them testing that I'll be working on MMing Magikarp in the meantime. Very poorly worded but I'm at college so I had to rush writing the post.

I mean no negative attitude to those testing/planning to test, since they are already helping in the first place, and I know some of us have everyday life to live as well (including me).

>>30731352
Nah you're good. Plus you also have college, which means you fit in the boat. You shouldn't struggle or stress. It'll organically happen. Don't worry.

>>30676572
That really does sound like RNG abuse could be usable again. I'd be surprised that nobody had cracked it if it were that simple though.

Bumping. This thread is too important to die. A STICKY WOULD REALLY BE HELPFUL HERE.

But since that's not going to happen, what do we call these newfound predictable egg mechanics? So we know what to put in the inevitable next thread.

>>30734052
Do not fret, pastebin anon here. I'm trying to finish my assignments at lightning speed so I can go back to testing this. Now if only my code stopped being a schizo shitface and work properly I could be done faster.

As for the mechanic name, I'd say time machine still fits quite well, maybe add a 2.0 to it to differ it from previous gen. We're still soft resetting for perfect IV inheritance and other manipulations, only now we have a sequence to work with instead of one egg. Maybe once we can manipulate more a better name will pop up?

>>30734052
God does not play dice

>>30731756
OP again. Thanks! Exams went really well so I'm content.

>>30734485
I like the name Time Machine 2.0. Inevitably when this thread dies, me or one of the testers here should set up a tripcode named "Time Machine 2.0" so we can check back whenever a new thread is created.

>>30734564
No need for a trip, just put that or something similar as thread title. Easier to look for in the catalog.

>>30734564
>>30734485
How about "IV Scramble"
It involves eggs and can essentially scramble the IVs.

>>30735318
I like it! Also has a "scrambled eggs" motif.

Bump?

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Stufful/Growlithe guy here.

I got some data from the guy that asked about changing parents. Parent 2 were 6 IV Dittos with the Destiny knot. Tododile/Chikorita/Litten were all male.

From the Tododiles, It would seem that some of the IVs were grabbed from one of the parents, but when I swapped the parents, it made it more clear which IVs were changed, hence I made them yellow. I didn't color the 5's as yellow because I suspect it to be way too coincidental for that to have happened as it's a 1/31 chance to get "Best". You can go back and look at just the Tododile data just by itself and it would be too difficult to figure out which ones were randomly generated because there were instances where all 6 were possible from the parents. Because Litten's stats were way different from Chikorita's, it was easier to spot.

Make what you will of the data.

The real struggle is getting all the eggs to test

One of the Pkhex anons here, this is what I was going to test
Box of Magikarps, record
Reset
Another box of magikarp to make sure nothing changed
Reset
Box of different parent with same gender ratio
Reset
Box of different parent with different gender ratio
Reset
Box of different parent that's genderless.

Hopefully a box will be enough to compare how IV's and shiny pokemon are generated

>>30741255
I also want to do a test where I generate eggs until a shiny spawns and then do the same tests with that, but that can be after this.

This thread and those contributing to it give me hope for /vp/.

I'm getting off my ass to do something.
I'll wondertrade a box of Razor Claw holding Sneasel and a box of 6IV Ditto with Destiny Knot.

Can someone tell me what to try after that?
I can test with PKHeX whatever you need me to, and how ever you need me to compile the data, just tell me like I'm a retard, finals have fried my brain.

>>30741255
Pkhex lets you examine what's inside the egg before hatching it, right? I was gonna consider doing this too (without Pkhex) for an additional source, but it might be a waste of time without that advantage.

wow, this is insane. this could make shiny hunting VERY weird.

MASSIVE thanks to all the anons dedicating their time to unraveling this. you're what makes this community worthwhile.

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>>30742056
Could you please give me one of those Ditto?

I posted in a thread where OP said he was giving them away and he turned out to be a ruseman.

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Ok. so I have been breeding:

JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
ENG Mimikyu 30/30/30/30/30/30 Everstone

I completed a box and save
these are the results on PkHex

How lucky, 2 shinys

I have a save before Mimikyu and one after .

Im going to change Mimikyu for bounsweet and see results.

>>30742938
oh boy

>>30742938
Report results as soon as you can. If you can use this to pinpoint IVs and shinies at the same times it could reduce breeding times dramatically.

>>30742938
This is it!!

Holy crap, I am excited. I hope the results are good. Demanding stickies for this thread!

>>30738238
So what this shows is that switching parents did not affect inherited nature, which is really cool, and neither did it affect IVs, which just reinforces the earlier conclusions from the thread. We should run a few of those experiments in parallel to make sure those random stats in yellow are really the same from the first (Totodile's) wave. Great stuff, anon.

>>30742938
Nice, we can finally confirm whether we can manipulate shinies to the same extent as IVs or not. Depending on our conclusions on nature and ability, this could be huge for breeding. Even better if we can deduce how to manipulate those variables between gender ratios.

Thanks to all the anons that are contributing! Unfortunately I got super stuck with the assignments I had in hand and couldnt really test anything today, but I'll try to run some tests tomorrow when I get home, regarding ability inheritance and how much the gender ratio changes the egg list regarding IVs and ability.

>>30743024
>Demanding stickies
you must be new here

>>30743167
Not him, and I don't think it deserves a sticky necessarily, but at least this thread is a shining beacon in a sea of shit that /vp/ is right now, so I don't blame him for thinking this thread is of some importance.

>>30742594
Ok, tomorrow I'll make a small give away.
Reply to that thread with the same owl so I can save you one

>>30743167
The VGC thread from the past weekend was stickied. Maybe you were gone for too long to not notice.

>>30743084
Well, I wanted to do a third experiment because it raises the question if Tododile's stats were copied to Litten's and Chikorita's in Yellow, then what's stopping someone from using this as another Destiny knot stat where 6 stats are copied and that 6th stat is recorded as a string somewhere and used for eggs in the same slot when reset. Could be useful for someone who has two set of 4 IV parents to merge into a 6IV mon. Also would explain why I got so many 6IV stuffuls without intending to.

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im bounsweet guy.

This time there was no shiny, the ivs were different from the ones i got with mimikyu

it was a new "seed"

Probably because of the gender radio, so im going to try with a magikarp

>>30743565
Oh boy, that's one half of the theory confirmed. Now It's time to see if the Magikarp will indeed be shiny...

>>30743565
Could you try something else later? What would happen if you rolled the first 5 or so eggs with Mimikyu, then switched to Bounsweet, then right before the shiny egg, switch back to Mimikyu?

If the Mimikyu is shiny with the same IVs, this could hint that the game isn't rolling a new list every time things change, but rather keeping two seeds at the same time and switching between them. Or even better, it's keeping only one seed and applying some transformation to it when we change gender ratio, and appying that transformation's inverse process when we change it back.

If we do find out that the game is only keeping one seed and applying some transformation to it, deducing that transformation could probably let us manipulate everything, which would be really cool. Shame it's more likely that it's rerolling every time we change gender ratio though.

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>>30743565

I put magikarp. Once again i have two shynis, the ivs match with the ones i get from mimikyu or at least the distribution.

JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
ENG Mimikyu 30/30/30/30/30/30 Everstone

first egg 31/31/30/7/30/30
/ / /r / /

JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
ENG Magikarp 7/11/29/16/31/5 Everstone

first egg 7/31/31/7/31/31
/ / /r / /

>>30744121
oh shit bois

>>30744121
do you think you could do maybe 2 boxes worth to see if at any point the seed resets?

>>30744121
ah, so even the random value is fixed. It appears that the only thing that matters is the gender ratio. If the shinies still appear when breeding for starters or other skewed-ratio pokemon, magikarp breeding could be the easiest way to get shinies fast.

>>30744121
>JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
>ENG Mimikyu 30/30/30/30/30/30 Everstone
>
>first egg 31/31/30/7/30/30
> / / /r / /
>
>JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
>ENG Magikarp 7/11/29/16/31/5 Everstone
>
>first egg 7/31/31/7/31/31
> / / /r / /

Sorry. I mean:

JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
ENG Mimikyu (f) 30/30/30/30/30/30 Everstone

first egg 31/30/30/7/30/30
m/f/f /r /f /f

JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
ENG Magikarp (m) 7/11/29/16/31/5 Everstone

first egg 7/31/31/7/31/31
m/f/f /r /f /f

>>30744121
See if using a power item to correct one of the shiny's random stats rerolls the egg

>>30744249

i've previously did this and it makes a rerolls

This seems like useless information, but in my really ghetto experiments, it seems like the gender output also stays the same. Even if you change to a pokemon with a different gender ratio, the nature will always be the same, which I think was already known, but what it rolls for gender seems to not change either.

For example, I hatched 5 Magikarp, the first two were male, the last three were female. If we assume it rolls 1 to 100 for gender, with 1-50 being male and 51-100 being female on a 1:1 ratio Pokemon, then for Magikarp, who is 1:1, it would have rolled between 51 and 100 on the last three. I reset and used Litten. The fourth was the only one that was female, which would mean that my fourth egg rolled 88-100 for gender, and eggs three and five rolled 51-87. Enough for a Magikarp to be female, but not a Litten. Then I reset and did Growlithe. If what I've got here is true, then the fourth egg should DEFINITELY be female if the Litten egg was. It was. Eggs three and five weren't, which means it would actually have rolled 51-75. Enough for Magikarp to be female, but not Growlithe.

I'm going to do a few more 7:1 gender ratio Pokemon and see if the fourth egg alone always ends up female.

Was this already figured out? My sample size is very small, so it could be pure luck.

>>30744204
I discovered that Togepi has a 87.5/12.5 gender ratio, and has egg steps of 2560.

Which means that it can make breeding for shiny starters easier, as well as finding out whether or not if that shiny Togepi is female to get a shiny female Salandit, which I think is pretty cool and makes MMing for it slightly less of a bitch.

>>30744485
Interesting. If the gender roll is seeded, then the fact that genderless/fixed gender mons don't roll for gender may explain the offset

>>30744485
Oops, I mixed it up. It was my third egg that produced female Litten and female Growlithe. I had it written down in a document but screwed it up in the post.

That said, I should also specify that when I did a Gastly, who is also 1:1, I got 2 males, then three females, just like Magikarp.

Just now, I've done Popplio. Again, the third was the only one that was female, just like Litten.

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>>30744121
This is a very awesome confirmation of my Shiny Minior result. Thanks PkHex anon!

>>30743731

I put mimikyu and got 5 eggs then switched to bounsweet and had 6 eggs, switch back to mimikyu 10 eggs.

The results: The first 5 mimikyu were exactly the same as the first time, the following bounsweet were distinct, so it was a reroll. And the following 10 mimikyu were also distinct, there was no shiny.

When you change the pokemon, there is a reroll.

Later i will try this with magikarp and make more boxes to check the lenght of the seed.

>>30745252
You mean when you use a pokemon with a different gender ratio correct?

>>30745275
bounsweet is all femme and mimikyu is 50/50 so i think thats what they mean

>>30745275

Correct.

>>30745252
Could you try breeding with a starter or other pokemon without a 50/50 gender ratio?

>>30745275
So maybe there are two lists, one for pokemon that roll for gender, and one for the ones that dont need to roll for it. Change the bounsweet with a genderless pokemon and see if they have the same IV spread as bounsweet.

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Heads up guys,

This thread's gonna die soon, so the moment that happens, please be sure to create a new thread when you can. We can't let our efforts die like this.

>>30745432
>ifunny

Can't believe I missed that watermark when saving that image. Guess that's a couple kilobytes removed from the ol' hard drive now.

>>30679437
But Smogon is in l love with stall

>>30679980
Fresh off the boat from /b/ huh?
Fuck off we're full.

>>30745450
I thought Smogon was in love with genies and lavatoad

Good luck with figuring this shit out, I'm gonna try the magikarp switch tomorrow to see if i can finally get a shiny marill.

Hi there. I'm >>30738238 and I'm answering >>30715435 's question.

I didn't keep any of the eggs and so I went to level up some pokemon to level 50 for the Battle Tree as well as went to catch a Ledian for Baton Pass reasons for Scyther ( which is garbage since it doesn't get Bug Bite >_> ). Anyways, I came back with just a bit of a note. The first egg remained Timid, but the next two came Hasty and Careful. But this was because it's a 50-50 ratio instead of the 7-1 ratio that starters tend to have.

So... I went back and took the exact same ditto and tododile as before. In theory, I reset the gender ratio and all I did was trained and caught a pokemon or two. The result? Nothing changed. All 10 tododiles were exactly identical to the first 10 I made in IV and Natures. This just further cements that Gender ratios are the dominant deciding factors in egg outcomes. This was an interesting find, at least to me.

>>30745758
>The first egg remained Timid, but the next two came Hasty and Careful. But this was because it's a 50-50 ratio instead of the 7-1 ratio that starters tend to have.

Are you saying by changing the gender ratio of the Pokemon you bred with, the natures changed? Because when I did this and switched between Magikarp, Litten, and Growlithe, who all have different gender ratios, I got Hasty > Brave > Gentle > Hasty > Adamant every time.

>>30745815
I changed both parents. The Tododile experiments were between a Ditto and Tododile,

The Scyther ones were between Ledian and Scyther, with Scyther being the female in order to inherit Baton Pass. (Also at the same time, I didn't give the Scyther pairing the destiny knot). The only part I wanted to focus on was if battling/catching/doing extraneous events would interrupt the Tododile eggs if I return to breed them after some time has passed. The sequence of events are: Tododile experiment > reset and do other stuff and saved> bred the Scythers > reset > test Tododiles again, which at this point has save data of doing other stuff in between.

Sorry for not clarifying that up well enough.

>>30745940
So it was likely the lack of Destiny Knot changing things, since that seems to mess with stuff in general.
Still, it means that the egg variables are used only for eggs - which is both good and bad. Good, since we don't have to worry about sticking to breeding and doing nothing else, bad because it means you can't just reset the eggs (or rather, completely fuck up where in the variable set you are) by training something.

>>30746083
When I did my tests here >>30744671 and here >>30745815 I wasn't using a Destiny Knot at all, so I don't think that's it. The IVs were consistently inherited between the Magikarp and the Gastly, too, albeit only 3 of them rather than 5.

>>30746129
Did you switch from using a knot to not using a knot in between tests?

>>30746171
I don't even have one yet, hence how ghetto my tests were, so no. It might be the act of switching that does it. Someone else said using power items reset the seed, so it makes sense that the Destiny Knot does, too. But that would mean that even after using a power item or the destiny knot to make the game reset the seed, it'll still be consistent from then on.

>>30746204
I wonder if what's going on is the game's simply using different numbers of variables from the same list, thus why power items, knot, and fixed-gender mess it up.
With a regular pokemon, it has to use a variable on the list for the gender roll. With a genderless/monogender, it instead skips that roll and uses it for an IV determination, or something. Knot means less IVs are determined randomly. So does power.
Does Everstone change things up? Wouldn't actually disprove this idea if it doesn't - it just means the game's spending a pointless step determining random nature and then afterwards overwriting with the everstoned one.

This bit of info might be handy, it talks about the differences in breeding with Ditto vs similar species. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/simple-questions-requests-mark-48-minor-pokemon-trades-item-requests-etc-go-here-no-hacking.3587164/page-69#post-7134309

>>30746129
Well, for your experiments, were you keeping the Ditto for all of the experiments and just switching out one parent each time?

It seems to be different from mine when I Went from Ditto+Tododile to Ledian+Scyther seeing as both parents changed. Also, if none of your experiments had the destiny knot, can it be that because the Tododiles had the destiny knot the natures were already in the "changed" state? It's a bit too late now to test, but if I could, it might have been a good idea to have it where I had the Ledian+Scyther, bred a few eggs, then do a different pairing to see if I maintained Timid>Hasty>Careful. It would fall more in line that we are looking at this from the reverse where Tododile were the change with the Destiny knot and the Ledian+Scyther with the hypothetical case being the same. Guess I need to try this tomorrow, or anyone else for that matter.

It seems like the most useful way to make use of this is if you wanted a specific gender. Like if I was breeding for a shiny male Ralts to turn into Gallade and got a shiny female, I could reset (provided I'd been saving properly in anticipation for this), I could back it up and replace Ralts with Snorunt to get a shiny female Snorunt, that I can evolve into Froslass. Both are 50-50 ratios. Unfortunately, Gallade is a physical Pokemon and Froslass is a special Pokemon, so it will probably still be less than perfect. The only other 50-50 Pokemon with a gendered evolution is Burmy, and who gives a fuck. You can't use this to get Salandit or Combee, unfortunately. The other thing I guess is if you're breeding a Pokemon and accidentally pop out a shiny you don't like, swapping it for something you want to be shiny. And the aforementioned exploitation of egg cycles needed to hatch, like using Magikarp for fucking everything to speed up the process.

Does that about sum up the advantages here?

>>30746510
I was using the same Ditto for every one, but my save was before I put Ditto (or anything) in the day care, and it's been several days since I had anything in there. So every reset I was depositing ditto for the first time. Don't know if that would effect it. Changing both parents, or maybe how you handled the destiny knot, would likely be the culprit in changing what you got.

>>30746715
Actually, the optimal Stat spread doesn't matter. You can replace both parents and as long as they're holding the Destiny Knot, the proper IVs will be passed down and the designated offspring will still be shiny.
The limitations seem to be that the shinies is only transferable across pokemon with a gender ratio. I seem to recall that some of the experiments performed in this thread say that as long as gender is rolled the shinies and inherited stats stay constant.
My theory is that the RNG is seeded and thus switching to a genderless species doesn't reset the rolls but instead offsets them so that shininess rolls go to determining IVs, and so on.

Just woke up, going to run some tests to confirm or back up data already found in this thread, good finds while I was away.

>>30747297
Even if you replaced the parents with ones suited toward breeding a special attack snorunt, would it not remain true that the special attack doesn't pass on? I'm assuming you've bred a pentaperfect physical ralts here, and then reset. If special attack didn't pass on originally, it isn't going to if you reset. That's the whole idea behind this, that it's consistent.

Also, the fellow using Pkhex used a Bounsweet to check if a different gender ratio would fuck with it. I think we should do more checks on Pokemon with actual ratios. Bounsweet is always female, which might mess it up in the same way genderless Pokemon do, meaning you might be able to swap out for a 7:1 pokemon and still get the shiny.

When I did the checks above with the Litten and the Growlithe after the Magikarp, I checked the stats and assumed that they failed to pass on due to the ratio difference, but I didn't realize at the time that the Gyarados I bred with previously was female, so I was looking at it backwards. The Litten and Growlithe might have inherited the stats properly, because according to >>30744207 it's consistent in pulling from the specific gendered parent, and all of my checks after the initial Magikarp were with parents of the opposite gender.

Here are some things worth looking into some more.

Does breeding a set of pokemon, identifying the pattern in their offspring's natures, reseting, and then equipping the destiny knot (or unequipping it if you had it on before) change the pattern?

With and without destiny knot, does breeding one set of parents, identifying the pattern in their offspring's natures, reseting, and completely replacing both parents and getting entirely different offspring change the pattern? Supposedly, Gyarados + Gyarados produces different results than Gyarados + Ditto. Would female Gyarados + [male in same egg group] produce different results than Gyarados + Gyarados? What combinations of parents change the pattern? It might be that same-family breeds have a different table than others, or maybe as specific as same-species breeds. Gyarados + Magikarp, Gyarados + Gyarados, Gyarados + [Water 2 egg group male], and Gyarados + Ditto could all result in different outcomes.

Is gender rolled from 1 to 100 and kept consistent on offspring even if the gender ratio of the pokemon has changed? i.e., will breeding a 50-50 ratio pokemon with ditto, examining the resulting genders, reseting, then replacing the 50-50 with a 7-1 ratio result in the genders matching up believably? In this case, a Pokemon that spawned male with the 50-50 parent will always be male with the 7-1 parent, and Pokemon that spawned female may turn out male, but it is impossible for a female to appear where a male did before. If 7-1 parent outputs a female, then a 3-1 ratio pokemon should also result in a female 100% of the time.

Do Pokemon that can only be one gender "skip" a step in generating their offspring, in the same way a genderless Pokemon might? Would 100% male, 100% female, and genderless Pokemon end up falling on the same results table? Can you breed one of these types of Pokemon and then switch to another type (like 100% male, switch to 100% female) and see the pattern in their natures maintain consistency?

File: Ditto+Gender Pool.png (313KB, 2496x802px) Image search: [Google]

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Okay, time to post some findings. So, after some tests, I’ve collected this data, and from it, we can infer that:Breeding a ditto with a same gender ratio, same gender parent B, will yield exactly the same IV and nature spread for AT LEAST one box, and no additional shines.Breeding a ditto with a same gender ratio, DIFFERENT gender parent B, will yield an inverse IV yield from the parents, with the exact same IV spread and natures, pulling from Parent B where Parent A was in test 1, for at least one box with no additional shines.

File: Ditto+NoGender Pool.png (291KB, 2014x1090px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30749709
HOWEVER, from additional tests, we find that no gender pokemon produce a different egg seed, and thus IV Spread will be varied from the initial gendered tests.
It also shows that genderless pokemon will always produce the exact same IV and nature spread for at least one box, regardless of what parent breeds with ditto.
This pretty much just supports what has been found in this thread, but just thought I’d contribute.
Just one of the PkHex anons helping out.

>>30749709
>>30749737
SO, from all of this, we can say that, if you breed a bunch of magikarp eggs with a female magikarp parent, find your ideal, perfect IV margikarp in at least one box, you could soft reset, switch out magikarp with a same gender pokemon of your choosing, and create that pokemon in the same amount of eggs.

Also, sorry for the incorrect colouring on the gendered parents in the luvdisc test, I'm tired.

>>30676572
I believe in you OP. I haven't started MMing for my shiny Porygon, I gotta unlock the spa first, but thanks for the tips.

>>30749788
This was confirmed in using that chart to breed a 30/31/31/x/31/31 Mimikyu as a substitute for Magikarp.
Of course, this is only helpful if you know the IV spread of the eggs, using this knowledge to manipulate IV's of eggs in a more efficient way would be much easier.
And again, sorry for all the colour errors, I'm just shit.

Endurance run PKHeX anon here, still collecting eggs.
Got two identical save files to collect each batch in, but something tells me they're going to be identical all the way down

>>30750301
Thanks for your efforts man, will be valuable stuff.

Other PKHeX anon here, I'm heading off. Hopefully my info will be of some use and we can find more out about shinies

>>30749737
>>30749709

So does this have any real effect on the strategy for trying to MM breed a shiny?

What all resets the the egg seed? When should you reset it?

Should the seed be reset when you unlock the shiny charm for instance?

>>30750349
The egg seeds are reset when you replace parents with different gender groups, such as gendered to genderless, taking ditto in and out of daycare, and also switching destiny knot around.
Reset if you haven't reached a desired outcome within a box or so, as this method lets you see outcomes of future pokemon quicker.
As for shinies, I'd say breeding a box of magikarp or whatever, hatching them, seeing if they are shiny, if they are, replace magikarp with your poke, otherwise, reset the seed and try again for quick shinies.

>>30750509
>I'd say breeding a box of magikarp or whatever, hatching them, seeing if they are shiny, if they are, replace magikarp with your poke, otherwise, reset the seed and try again for quick shinies.


Would that really make a difference?

Does resetting the seed make a shiny more likely than just breeding another box?

>>30750597
I guess not, but it would mean having to produce less eggs with the new pokemon for the shiny, so time wise it might be quicker, but overall, doesn't really change anything. Until someone finds a very real way to manipulate shiny generation, this is probably the best bet.

File: popplio.png (32KB, 617x364px) Image search: [Google]

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Hi, im >>30742938

So, i repeat again with a different gender radio pokémon, popplio.

The iv spreat is exactly the same, there are shinies again.The only difference is the gender . I had 11/18 female mimikyu and 3/18 female popplio.

Next is magnamite or minior

>>30750679

Thinking it might be easier just to keep hatching and switching new eggs out with newly hatched. Completely brainless.

Amazing how a dying 3DS just jumped our shiny discoveries 200 years into the future


>>30750701
You should keep a shiny minior as a trophy

>>30750701
Wait, so switching the gender ratio *doesn't* reroll now?

>>30750709
You know theres a setting now that just send eggs straight to your box, right? That way you can just send a box load of eggs away, check them all with a program if you have it available, or just be hatching them while you collect them, then SR and switch out when you get a shiny

>>30750817
According to
>>30750701 & >>30749709
it doesn't, apart from going from gendered to genderless or 100% one gender

>>30750820
>check them all with a program if you have it available

Haven't hacked my DS, no program.

If I am opening them with a program I might as well just create one egg then flick the shiney tag.

>>30750847
True, but some people don't want to do that.
I'm not saying your wrong, just that making boxes full of eggs, or one box over and over is pretty much the same thing.

>>30750895
Isn't that what he meant earlier when he asked "Would that really make a difference?"

>>30750932
Exactly, and I agreed that either method doesn't really change anything, just what you prefer in hatching. So either way is the same thing in the end.

File: Minior.png (31KB, 614x364px) Image search: [Google]

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With Minior you get the same results as with Bounsweet but in the iv spreat Minior is treated like a male.

Minior is treated as male.

JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
ENG Minior 21/15/26/28/24/19 Everstone

first egg 21/31/2/28/24/19
JAP Ditto 31/31/31/31/31/31 Destiny knot
ENG Bounsweet 30/30/30/30/30/30 Everstone

first egg 31/30/2/31/31/31

>>30751288
So, like some anons have said, guarenteed gender pokemon and genderless pokemon are in the same group.
Thanks for the confirmation anon.

May I get a general understanding of the research method?

Are you always burning off the first egg?

What happens for something genderless that hatches a 50:50 gender split pokemon?

Shedinja and nincada.

someone needs to compile this information and form 1 theory

>>30751677
They aren't available quite yet, but it's worth testing.

File: 1480295421406.jpg (498KB, 900x720px) Image search: [Google]

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Thanks to everyone for researching this information! I'm super excited for this new breeding mechanic!

>>30751288
So mono/genderless pokemon as treated as one or the other for purposes of inheritance.

I'm assuming all monogenders count as that parent, do all genderless count as male?

so how long until verlisify steals all this shit and makes a video

Hopefully we can find a way to sorta compress all of what we found into a dumbed down version, to make it easier and more practical for everyone

>>30751808
I'll give it a week after the theory is condensed into a "For Dummies"-esque guide.

>>30751818
>we
What did you do exactly?

>>30751884
Well, to be honest nothing, I just mean in general as a community that is trying to figure out everything about the method

Over 300 club. Ayyyyyyyyy

relevant?
https://twitter.com/pokemon_PhD/status/808679887150153728

>>30752226
Maaan, this is beginning to remind me of the RNG manipulation in Dragon Quest 9.

Anybody got pokerus? I can't offer anything in return unless you want a wild Dhelmise.

>>30752390
I've got it. Put up something level 20+ to trade for a Servine.

>>30752577
I put up a lvl 35 Dhelmise. Thanks in advance anon.

>>30753009
Okay sent!

I asint here for shines. I'm here for IV's.

How does this apply to me, the owner of a jap 6iv ditto?

Is brute forcing the best way for me? I always just hatch shitloads of eggs non stop until i get the one i want (sometimes well over 50 eggs later).

Something always feels weird with eggs. I've hatched 10 mimikyu's in a row; all had 5-4 ivs but none of them had speed. At all.