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>>30654427
>Atem

what did he mean by this

so you want to ban Gyarados now?

What's up with Porygon2?

>>30654477
Wondering too.

I've used him a lot in gen 6, wondering make him so good suddenly despite the thunderwave nerf.

>porygon2
yes it's a healthy meta
>>30654477
a singlesfag like you doesn't deserve these dubs

>>30654477
>>30654503
Z-conversion

>>30654477
Goes like this:
Everyone bringing multiple fires
That shy away Fighting types
Bulky normal types can easily dominate shit.
Porygon 2 has ascess to recover, a movepool that has an answer to most threats and needs minimal set up to perform well.
Of course, if this was post bank some other pokemon would probably be used over it, like Cresselia.

>>30654477
eviolite
trickroom possible
recover

I might be missing something

>>30654542
*fairies

>>30654518
Porygon-2 is shit without eviolite, Z is the one using conversion

>>30654518
Nope. It's simply a good trick room setter with recovery.

>>30654518
>Running Z-Conversion
>On Porygon 2

If you're running Z-Conversion, you're running Porygon Z. Porygon 2 is still running Eviolite

>>30654477
It's bulky as fuck and nobody has any fighting moves to actually bring it down because you don't have space for them on tapus and celesteela and the fire/steel types you need to kill tapus and celesteela

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HEY GUYS I POSTED IT ON LEDDIT XDDDDDDDDDD HURHURHUR

What's so great about gyarados

>>30654677
> Intimidate
> Can run multiple sets
> Bulky Gyara with Roar and Taunt
> Speedy Gyara with DD and Waterfall/Icegang
> Boosted Z-watermove HURTS

>>30654627
>and the fire/steel types
>Steel
What's stopping people from running Lucario to merc both the Tapus and Porygon2?

>>30654714
> Lucario

Hi Smogonfag

>>30654713

But tapu koko was supposed to scare gyarados away

and golisopod was supposed to be the new gyarados

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>>30654754
>But tapu koko was supposed to scare gyarados away


Thunderbolt? HOOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO

>>30654737
What? I mean it's VGC legal this year, you can catch them on Poni. I get that it's frail, and that frail is pretty bad in Doubles, but is frailty that all that's holding it back or is there something else?

>>30654817
No mega.

>>30654850
I never said Mega. Is vanilla Lucario just too shit to use, then?

>>30654754
>supposed to
Koko can hurt, but it's way too predictable. Most surprising thing it could do is run VoltTurn, Dazzling Gleam and Thunderbolt/DIscharge.

One-trick Koko.

>cherrypicking this hard

>>30654900
Yes. It's no good in real battles, either, mega lucario is the only form broken enough to use.

>>30654983
I like to see you win VGC with Pokemon like Stantler or Dunsparce.

>>30655085
>some mons being shit means meta is bad

>>30654953
>Koko can hurt, but it's way too predictable
Sky Drop says hi.

>>30654461
German for "breath"

>>30655085
Funnily enough Stantler actually had a niche last year, being able to run the same trick room / skill swap / gravity type support as bronzong and cresselia. Less bulk than cress and doesn't handle xerneas like zong does, but has intimidate and doesn't get bopped by yveltal. One guy always brought it to my local tournaments and it worked pretty well.

>>30655109
>>some mons

>>30655313
A large number of mons are solidly viable in this format, and plenty more have niches that make them worthwhile for certain team comps. Don't be so cynical.

Is this up now?

>>30655408
Stream is done for the day.

Did Gyarados get any buffs this gen? Or is he just one of the better pokemon before pokebank?

>>30654427
Why does this always happen with Smash and pokemon? Why are people so mad the same characters/pokemon in this case are being used?
It's competitive, people go there to win, so they pick the best pokemon. The same shit happens with League of Legends or Overwatch, and they don't bitch about it. People in those communities know these are the best characters and they are excited seeing them being played at a pro level, so what wrong here?

>>30655666
Gyarados has almost always been meta

>>30655669
It's dull as hell to watch, doesn't make for a good spectator sport if it's the same shit every time.

>>30655669
Variety means a lot to people. Unless you have a lot of knowledge about the game and you're deeply invested in it you won't like seeing things at the very top level.

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>vgc
who cares

>>30655669
Because there are more people who play pokemon / smash casually. League and overwatch are fundamentally competitive games, people who don't like that don't become big fans. For a lot of people Pokémon is mainly a single player rpg and smash is mainly a party game.

>>30655669
Sign of an unbalanced game in extreme cases like melee and some of the recent pokemon metas. It also gets old extremely fast in Pokemon's case, because playstyles don't really evolve, unlike Melee.

>>30654477
It can only get killed by fighting types, which get shit on this meta because every team has ghosts, fairy's and flying types, or by poison damage which porygon 2 can deal back as well, decent offense unlike most pure stall mons, and trick room which is important for the slow ass alolan pokemon.

>>30654641
relax

>>30655669
People complain about homogenised metas for every competitive game in the universe

>>30655797
Watching straight mirror matches is dumb, but that's almost never what people are complaining about. They bitch when 2 of the mons are the same, even though they're different moves / items / etc.

>>30654427
Hmm people are using the best options available how dare they.

It's certainly healthier than the shitshow of ORAS VGC

>>30655828
>competitive pokemon
>who cares
FTFY

>next year once pokebank is legal it's literally only going to be genies, UBs and tapus
Ban all legendaries

>>30655981
>he wants to see garchomp mirrors all day

>>30656012
>Garchomp is uncounterable in the age of fairies

>>30655893
The meta is pretty diverse right now, but I feel like as it develops it'll get more and more homogenized like it has in the past.

>>30656025
>missing the point
Also, poison jab is meta on garchomp this season

>>30655669
smash doesn't have the problem as much because people can play the same character different ways.
I wouldn't say hungrybox "plays" fox, but the last time i remember him trying, he used the shine as a reflect which nobody ever does.
last I remember, leffen plays fox pretty boring with shine jab upsmash, which is at least consistent, and westballz is a tech monkey who pops 30mg adderall and grinds his shield pressure strings while circus music plays in his head.
pokemon is a turn based rpg which is a big contributing factor in VGC being a joke format since the overcentralization is much more absolute. especially because there are other viable formats such as on sims like showdown, while nobody plays the other smash formats like ironman or items+banned stages

>>30656027
If you look at the difference between Prebank and Postbank OU on Showdown it's a pretty drastic and sad change back to basically the Gen 6 Meta with added cancer

>>30656103
Based weston

>>30656111
Yeah, exactly. That's why I'm enjoying pre-bank OU while I still can. Fuck me, man, I don't want to go back to le healthy meta genies and washing machines.

>>30656027
It's possible, but there aren't very many mons that stand out as being exceptional so it's difficult for anything to really dominate. Celesteela is the only one really - chomp, gyara, tapus, marowak, etc are all strong but not at all broken.

>>30656066
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 200-237 (50.8 - 60.3%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Meanwhile that Clefable's Moonblast is a clean 2HKO

>>30655085
Just wait when bank hits and my body slam dunsparce is back.

>>30656168
>can't switch in
>dies if partner can also chunk
Nice counter bruh

>>30656158
I want a tier that's basically OU but with legends and megas banned, just to see how it fairs

>>30656211
The same applies more to Chomp

>>30656223
Just play UU if you don't want cancer, that's where I'm headed back to after they delete pre-bank.

>>30656223
It's called UU. Unless you started playing competitive in the last couple years then every OU pokemon of the old is there because of the power creep.

>>30656279
>>30656249
Considering many of my old OU favs dropped hard this Gen I'll probably switch to UU or BL

>>30655669
>The same shit happens with League of Legends, and they don't bitch about it
Lol.

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>>30656303
> Not playing UU/RU/PU
> Now has Swords Dance and Aqua jet

Aww shit, time to tear PU a new asshole

>>30656249
>Suicune and Skilldog's bizarre adventure
>Not cancer

>>30656431

is this a jojo's reference?

>>30654641
>Beast Ball illegal

I'm dumping my beast ball Horseas on WT when mericans go to sleep and I can get on all dat sweet Nip Abra action

>>30656473
Yeah it's a reference to the part where Dio puts Danny in the oven and then was resurrected by Ho-oh who gave him Sacred Fire for some fuckall reason.

>>30654427
That's a bit of cherry picking there though, as this was the worst match shown, and the nigger was the only one that had a that crappy copy/paste team (and lost here).

>>30656494
beast ball horsea aint illegal tho.
it triggers my balltism but it's not illegal it should be.

>>30656431
Who is even skill dog of bizarre adventure. At least try to make sense

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>>30656627

>>30654427
Just bring Primeape with Defiant and an Adrenaline Orb

>>30656623
Only later did I see that it was a beast ball Porygon

Get your shit together Game Freak

Also BB Horsea is a happy accident, since I Island scanned after catching a UB

>>30655666
It gets intimidate and hits like a truck. Plus, you can bring a Lightning Rod mon to deal with its 4x weakness.

>>30656431
Every tier has their top tier threats Anon. It's just how shit works.

>>30656794
Do you mean Mega Gyarados hits like a truck or just regular Gyarados?

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>>30654427

>Porygon2 in doubles
>Z in singles

Yes, is healthy meta gonrade. Healthy as it can ever be.

>>30657555
don't forget regular porygon was banned from the LC due to Z-conversion, plus being very strong with eviolite.

>>30657422
VGC 2017 bans Megas, so just regular.

>regionals are this early

sheesh
hot a what baabhabhiat

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>>30654427
Jolly or Adamant?

>>30654900
Lucario just gets outclassed and isn't that useful without it's mega.

>>30654477
As someone that used it a lot in Gen 6 Battle Spot, I can say that Eviolite and investing EVs in bulk makes it annoying to take down if you don't have a Fighting-type. Analytic means that you can hit for decent damage even if you didn't invested in SpA, and because it is slow it means that most of the time Analytic will activate.

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>>30654518
>>30654627
Does Z-conversion automatically convert Porygon to Ghost-type, or does it function normally?

Is this up on youtube yet?

>>30660301
Z-Conversion changes Porygon's type to match the type of its first move after boosting all of its stats by one stage.

>>30654627
Plus even Poison is now competing for coverage because all 4 Tapu are weak to it and a bunch of Steels are missing from VGC17. Once Tapu hype dies down and post-bank/VGC18 brings back all the old Steels, Poison will go back to being worst coverage.

>>30661044
To match the type in its first move slot, or the first move used by it?

>>30661693
First slot.

im really new to pokemon (ive played almost everygame, but casually). But the thing is, why the tournaments arent only about the last edition, that way the meta will be more diverse right? And would change with each new game

>>30662393
the fuck are you trying to say

>>30662529
u can only play pokemons from the last game in tournaments

>>30662393
If tournaments only allowed new mons, literally everyone would be using the same 6-10. We got like 36 new evolution lines this gen, not including legends and UBs. Very few are viable

>>30662581
That's basically what they do, at least at the start of each new generation. VGC '17 is restricted to Pokemon in the Alola Pokedex, VGC '14 was restricted to Pokemon in the Kalos Pokedex, etc.

>>30656168

so garchomp wins 85% of the time since it outspeeds?

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>>30656303

>switch to BL

Magnezone air balloon

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>>30662393

>>30655669
Considering that there's 800 fucking Pokemon, it's really bullshit that only 20 are competitively viable. It'd be like if all Smash matches were fox/marth matches.

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>>30654461
underrated post

B E A S T
A
L
L

>>30656111
>>30656158
Given that Smogon actively resists "correction" in the OU Metagame, we're looking at another generation of Landorus cancer. Going to UU might be the better choice here.

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>>30655669
>balance is impossible
Don't make excuses for bad devs. Balanced games are a thing, they've been done before.

>>30654477
Game Freak really had a slow setup as far as Porygon 2 is concerned.
>Gen 1 - introduced Porygon
>Gen 2 - introduced Porygon 2 with an increase on Porygon's stats
>Gen 4 - introduced Porygon Z with only a small increase because it had already gotten one
>Gen 5 - introduced eviolite, making Porygon 2 more viable than Porygon Z in many cases

And I don't even know why
>Gen 7 - introduced Z-Conversion and Z-Conversion 2

>>30663055
Most of them are.

>>30666043

Probably to make Conversion a relevant move, which it did.

>>30666043
Probably to make Porygon Z not be an outright worse version.

>>30666043
The odd thing is those are all sensible updates, that make porygon 2 and porygon z have different roles without being too overpowering. Next gen they might even give porygon z aura sphere/earth power/power gem.

>>30655669
>The same shit happens with League of Legends.

Ah yes, the DotA rip-off that is stale enforced meta garbage, while DotA 2 tourneys almost often have a wide range of picks.

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>>30667573
>DotA rip-off
Nice maymay tripfag
>while DotA 2 tourneys almost often have a wide range of picks
Wide range of picks has nothing to do with the health of a meta, it only has to do with the meta's variability. A meta with many picks can be unhealthy is it's OP's vs. OP's, since if you can't play them, you're shit out of luck. Last world championship for league was considered to have a healthy meta despite having fewer overall picks than DotA.

>>30667629
>having less viable options is healthier

>>30667181
I want a split evo of Porygon with a proper patch from Silph Co just to see how it looks.

>>30655669
No one likes being told what to use unless they specifically ask. You think you'd like it if you want to use something, but you're told it's complete crap for competitive? Hell no. You'd try to use it. Maybe you would get your ass destroyed when you actually tried and you'd get proven wrong, but you wouldn't like it. Why play the game when the options you like aren't worth using?

>>30656103
>implying pokemon cannot be played in multiple ways
You have already gone retard at that point.

>>30667629
>thinks league came first
>doesn't know what a tripcode is
>>>/reddit/

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Am I the only one who doesn't give a shit about competitive thing in pokemon? I'm playing it casually mostly, Like Elite 4 and pokedex collecting.

>VGC
i don't know what you expected

>>30670944
I breed and train my pokemon, but only to play with friends, we're all karen-fags

>>30667710
>literally just porygon2 with a bell and whistle taped to it.
>no tail
>like 10 more sp def
>pokedex entry is people complaining about how lazy silph co is and how they don't know what the trainers want

>>30671225
>Despite this update, most Porygon trainers still consider Porygon2 holding an Eviolite to be the definitive version of Porygon

>>30665941
That's a roster of what, 28 characters? How many games are balanced with 100 characters? Genuinely curious, I don't play competitive games.