>the only games to feature the opposite version's legendary

Are BW and BW2 Pokemon's Tellius series?

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People don't like Gen V?

Hmm, I didn't know that...

its all genwunners

>muh no old pokemons muhfugga

muh deep plot

>>30553749
>>game shoves waifu in your face
Like they shoved N!
The only reason no one complains about that is because BW were on the shit DS. They couldn't even have cutscenes. N had less dialog than an NPC that only appears in a sidequest in a normal RPG.

I will never understand you fags. Hating a game just because it focuses on a female character.

>>30554054
>N
>an antagonist
>actually battles you
>because the game actually follows the player character as the protagonist

He's more like a Gladion

I don't like either but you can ignore N and just battle through his appearances for exp. Lillie on the other hand, is story fodder and waifubait.

>>30553749
Wait, we hate BW's story now? I thought that people ranked BW and SM's plot the highest here.

Next you're going to tell me that XY's plot is good

>>30553749
It's not hated by the fanbase, dude. Stop falling for /vp/ memes.

99% of the criticism about BW is "GARBAGE BAG AND ICE CREAM" and "THE POKEDEX SUX WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY BROS"

I've never seen any legitimate complaints.

>>30553884
FE9 is a horrible game by any SRPG metric, so no.

>>30554054
>Couldn't have cut scenes
B2W2 had the whole Kyurem vs. Legendary cutscene. Even BW had the cutscene where the Team Plasma castle emerges.

>>30554099
Anything that doesn't battle = shit character?
Wow, you must play some high quality games. Not being able to fight gave Lillie a unique character. It makes sense. She wasn't allowed to have Pokemon, nor did she like seeing them hurt. Her not being a trainer adds to her character.

Now look at N. He thinks battles are barbaric, and doesn't want Pokemon to be hurt, but goes ahead and uses Pokemon to battle anyway.

>B-but he fights for Pokemon
Then just give him a Legendary and have you fight him once, at the end. Having him use different teams each and every time he fights you for no real reason doesn't help his character.

They didn't have the courage to make a character who won't battle you back in BW. If they did, they could've improved N. N became a lackluster character with development that happens way too fast because they didn't have the balls.

>B-but N is great!
On paper, yes. He's still the best Pokemon had come up with at the time. But he was executed badly. Even Silver was a better executed character than N.
If N had been in an RPG where story and characters are actually the focus, people would've shit all over him for having like 10 scenes with 5 lines in each.

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>playing Pokemon for any reason besides the waifus

>>30553749
>Fire Emblem here we go.
Please don't judge our entire series on the latest two shit games. That would be like judging Pokemon based purely on the shitfest that was Gen 6 and 7.

>>30554054
>they shoved N in your face
>N had less dialog than a sidequest NPC in a normal RPG

Make up your mind.

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>>30553749
You know, if a character from a game released less than a month ago is more popular than a character from 6 years ago, there's more to it than just Lillie being cute.
In Pokemon, being cute isn't a big feat. Even the shittiest of Pokemon games have top tier waifus.

If only you would calm you hateboner down and look at Lillie as a character, then maybe even you would understand.

>>30554255
Forced ≠ screentime.

>>30554284
What the fuck does this even mean? N is a psuedo-rival, of course you are going to see him every so often. What makes it forced? Was Blue forced?

>>30553749
I always get annoyed seeing N associated with Reshiram when Zekrom fits his character more.

>>30554298
Because the game forced you to take him seriously, despite him being ridiculously stupid? Release all Pokemon? The game not only expected you to take that seriously, but also care for the character saying that like he was your friend?

Don't get me wrong. I love N. I'm just trying to think of a reason why people would dislike him, considering a lot of people did when BW came out.

>>30554300
It could just be additional yin-yang nonsense. N, who fights for an ideal, has the truth Pokémon.

>>30554268
>there's more to it than just Lillie being cute.

Yeah, unlike Bianca and Shauna, she doesn't battles and needs protecting, giving a huge boner to male otaku.

"Kimi no tame ni boku wa tatakau!" etc etc. You degenerates love this right?

The most transparent, blatant pandering in the series.

>>30554384
That thinking has lead to the downfall of many games. Forcing a waifu who doesn't fight on players mostly only results in people hating the character. It almost never works.

>>30554300
It looks more pleasing to the eyes.
As far as the character goes, both Legendaries fit him. N is fighting for the truth, and wants to create the ideal world. Hilbert is also fighting for the truth, and wants to protect his ideal world.

>>30554228
>a gen that introduced some of the best additions to the series yet, including pss, full 3d graphics, horde battles, super training and molesting your pokemon with a stylus
>shitfest
the only shitfest here are your hot opinions

>>30554405
yup. look at luna in ffxv, everyone hates her

>>30554421
No, N is fighting for an ideal while ignoring the truth he sees before him, while also having gone most of his life without seeing the truth.
Meanwhile, the protagonist is able to help N by using the truth.

The fucking symbolism with Reshiram and Zekrom in BW is amazing.

>>30554158
>shitty boring circular region
>characters are one dimentional as fuck
>designs (mons and humans alike) are either puke-inducing or "nothin personnel kid"-tier
>meta is Politoed
>rivals consist of moeblob and edge

I know this is bait anon, but please try harder next time

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>>30554268
>there's more to it than just Lillie being cute
Solid memes.

>tfw we'll see le ebin pew bag meme for ... ever

>>30554459
>circular
stopped reading right there

>>30554469
>c-circular is just a meme
>I'll call him out on it and avoid talking about the other points
>N is the best husbando, r-right?

>>30553949
Dumb frogposter

>>30554456
Eh, I agree it works better that way, but what N says isn't all just wrong. Some people do abuse Pokemon, like Team Plasma. He just believes it's true for everyone. He wasn't ignoring the truth. He really believed what he thought was the truth.

In the Unovan Legend, Reshiram sided with the brother who sought the truth. Not necessarily knew the truth.
I know I'm stretching it, but I just really like seeing N with Reshiram. Reshiram's white color compliment N's design really well. As opposed to Zekrom, where N just stands out like a sore thumb.

>>30554503
no need to be edgy on the internet, if you don't like the game without playing it you don't have to pretend you did

>>30554459
>region is circular
Rectangular, actually, and you say this as if it actually matters to the game's quality.
>one dimensional characters
Except no? There isn't a single one dimensional character and every character has more going on with them than ever before, especially the gym leaders. And if you use this as an argument, it applies 10x worse to the other games.
>puke inducing or "nothing personnel tier"
??? This is just retarded.
>main rivals are edge and moeblob
Which shows that you have zero clue as to what makes a good character. Cheren is just motivated by his desire to get stronger and Bianca's story is about realizing that not everyone can be strong, but still being happy after the fact.

Have your (you), retard.

>>30554536
>He wasn't ignoring the truth.
"It's about when I first met you in Accumula Town. I was shocked when I heard what your Pokémon was saying. I was shocked because that Pokémon said it liked you. It said it wanted to be with you."
"I couldn't understand it. I couldn't believe there were Pokémon that liked people. Because, up until that moment, I'd never known a Pokémon like that. The longer my journey continued, the more unsure I became. All I kept meeting were Pokémon and people who communicated with one another and helped one another. That was why I needed to confirm my beliefs by battling with you. I wanted to confront you hero-to-hero. I needed that more than anything."

He was. He was seeing the truth and refusing to accept it.

>>30553749
>>story about the morality of catching Pokemon
It isn't though. They raise that point exactly once and then drop it harder than the doctor dropped you when you were born. Plasma turns out to be nothing but Rocket with a coat of paint and a cringeworthy leader. BW was the most disappointing story by far, even worse than DPPt's "let's rehash RSE but make it edgier."

>>30554459
Yeah, still not seeing legitimate complaints, just the typical laundry list of shit /vp/ers dredge up when they want to shit on B/W.

>>30554555
My gen 3 Pokemon is Bank would disagree (since you need to go through gen 5 to transfer shit up)

I played the games, I just thought they were shit; no need to be edgy and insult everyone that doesn;t share your tastes, anon-kun

>>30554605
>rectangular
might as well call it hexagonal, then
>there isn't a single one dimentional character
Ghetsis is muh evil, Cheren is muh strong; also, I never said anything about the other games
>this is just retarded
opinion
>rivals are complex, deep souls
I give up, enjoy your game anon; everyone has their tastes

>>30554642
Regardless of your personal feelings (I thought that Plasma's hypocrisy and N's misguided ideals were great), the point is that the story was still about the Pokémon.

N, Ghetsis, the protagonist, Bianca and Cheren, their whole stories are about Pokémon.

>>30554633
Not the same anon, but it does work with Reshiram too.
N believed Pokemon were abused, and met Hilbert and saw his Pokemon happy. N was confused. N wanted to know the truth. That's why he wanted to fight Hilbert one-on-one, with as a Hero.
N was seeking the truth, and wanted to create his ideal world. The way you're so against N having Reshiram is a bit ridiculous. You can also argue Zekrom doesn't fit him. His ideal world was a world where Pokemon were happy, but Pokemon were happy with trainers to begin with. Zekrom would've done nothing to help N, other than help him see the truth.

>>30554705
>Bianca and Cheren
Cheren's deal was that he didn't understand why he wanted to be strong, and Bianca's deal was that she wasn't strong. Pokemon had as big a part in this as they had with Lillie.

>>30554787
Being strong in what?

>>30554809
Strong as a Pokemon Trainer. My point was, Lillie isn't completely different too.
Lillie's deal was that she wanted to protect a Pokemon. You're being too harsh here. Lillie was the same as N, in that aspect. N wanted to free all Pokemon, Lillie wanted to protect one Pokemon.

>>30554442
>pss
removed

>full 3d graphics
An inevitability that doesn't actually make the game any more enjoyable and shouldn't really be credited to a single game

>horde battles
removed

>super training
removed

>petting your Pokemon
literally who cares

>>30554859
What does it matter if they were removed? He's saying they're reasons Gen 6 are good, not being in games going forward is completely irrelevant.

>>30554762
As pointed out, Reshiram is for the hero who sought truth, and thats not what N was after. N was after what he believed in and pursued it in spite of what he was self-admittedly seeing.
When you seek the truth, you have to accept the truth, regardless of whether it fits what you wanted. N didn't.

N believed his ideal was best for the Pokemon and would make them happiest.

This is also why Reshiram fits best for the protagonist, because N and his ideals. N wants to prove that his ideals are greater than the truth. That his ideals can shape and create truth. But the truth doesn't work like that. Its absolute.

And its because of his accepting the truth after his defeat that he is finally able to accept it and grow, and his ideals change and evolve and he is able to grow. The protagonist is the one who shows N and the truth and gets him to accept it.

Like I said, the symbolism of the dragons in BW is fucking great.

>>30554903
I agree it was great. But it's great because both Legendaries fit N and the Protagonist perfectly. It's just a matter of perspective.

>When you seek the truth, you have to accept the truth
But those are two mutually exclusive things. If you've already accepted the truth, you aren't seeking anything. Likewise, if you're still seeking the truth, you couldn't have accepted it.

Come on, anon. I can't be the only one seeing how ridiculous this is? You're being too biased. He thinks Pokemon are being abused, but seeing them all being happy. Ht wants to know the truth; that's why he fights Hilbert in the first place.

>>30554200
Checked

And I agree

>>30554268
>You know, if a character from a game released less than a month ago is more popular than a character from 6 years ago, there's more to it than just Lillie being cute.
Right, there's Lillie being fresh in people's minds while nobody's played a game that has N in it in years. Fictional characters get less popular the longer they go without appearing because people move on and stop caring.

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Gen 5 and 7 are the best gens by a wide margin.

>>30554200
What's the point of arguing for ideals, if you aren't going to fight for them?

>>30556529
If the whole thing you're trying to do is stop fighting, then fighting isn't going to help that.
The anon made a valid point. N only needed to fight the Champion after he had gotten the Legendary. All other fights were pointless.

>>30553884
Very much so, with the same fanbase of contrarian hipster zealots.

>>30556103
Many people still care about N. Did you not look at the comment section of the latest Pokemon Generations episode on Youtube?

Lillie is popular because she has a uterus and is generic trash made to appeal to weaboos. That's all.

>>30554268
Nope. It's literally because she's a girl. If she was a male because would be crying and bitching about how the game is gay and other shit.

>is hated by the fanbase
It's loved but only because of Stockholm Syndrome

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>There are retards on this board who actually the millions of people who bought SM like Lillie only because she has a pussy
Not everyone is degenerate like you, faggots.

>>30556996
Wat

>>30556996
Give me valid reasons to like Lillie when she's generic as all fuck.

>>30557573
Because she's a good character, who's personality is a result of her past experiences, her actions have meaning behind them, she has a complete character arc where she grows as a person.
To put it simply, she's a well written character. Better than anything else from Pokemon games. Add to that the fact that she's actually a likeable character too, and you have Lillie.

Give me a good reason to dislike Lillie, other than this "generic" meme of yours, because she isn't generic. That is a fact.

>>30557701
>She isn't generic


Hahahaha.

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>people like sun and moon because of Lillie

Why do you faggots keep saying this? Not everyone is an anonymous image board browsing degenerate. Most of the fucking Normies I've talked to absolutely despise how much Lillie is pushed, myself included.

Gen V is hated by a vast majority of the fan base because it alienated fans of Gen 1-4 Pokemon by forcing you to use it's wave of 156 new boys.
>J-Just like Kanto huh guys?

>>30553749
>>the only games to feature the opposite version's legendary in the story
gsc did that first

>>30557746
Exactly the argument I expected. Not going to stick around in this shit thread any longer. Don't reply to me or my clones again.

>>30557761
Stop fucking lying. Every normie loves Lillie. Not going to disagree with your whole post, because you are right. People don't like SM just because of Lillie, but to say that normies despise her is just wrong.

>>30557761
>Gen V is hated by a vast majority of the fan base because it alienated fans of Gen 1-4 Pokemon by forcing you to use it's wave of 156 new boys.
I don't see how this'd be a problem unless you've a very casual fan that needs to see old mons for comfort.

>>30557814
Don't worry, I'm sure no one here gives a shit about you and your wife's sons.

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>>30557843
Nah nah cousin, they despise how much Lillie is PUSHED. For the most part they all tell me how much they wished she would stop talking to them and I agree for the most part.

>>30557772
No it didn't. They were in the games, but postgame only and nothing to do with the story.

>>30558006
Not really. Look anywhere.
People dislike the number of cutscenes, but no one actually dislikes the characters. Even cutscenes, they don't mind as much. They only dislike it because "replaying would be hard". The only place Lillie is actually hated is /vp/.

>>30558147
Maybe I'm wording it wrong but that's exactly what I'm saying, most of them just don't like how long cutscenes drag out and the person that talks to you the most is Lillie so that's the face they put to it. Once again the normies I've talked to don't HATE Lillie, they just hate how much she talks to you.

>>30554644
>complaints don't count if I say they don't count

>muh autism
>muh daddy issues
>muh PokePETA

N is massively overrated

>>30553749
>ignores the opposite verson legendary.
Only Johto games allow you to catch the opposite box art legend, and in the original versions neither was mandatory (it was remakes who shoved them your ass)

>>30553749
>the only games to feature the opposite version's legendary in the story

Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald did this.

Actually so did Gold and Silver loosely.

>>30558220
>Maybe I'm wording it wrong
That, or maybe I just read it wrong. But I got the message that people disliked Lillie's scenes. Even though she talks a lot, almost everyone I've seen both online and offline don't actually dislike the cutscenes, other than starting tutorial. They think they will dislike them when they are replaying.
Anyway, my bad. Didn't get your point the first time around.

>>30558302
I don't remember ruby and sapphire doing it?

>>30558357
One legendary fighting the other is literally the climax of the main plot of the games.

>>30558387
That was Emerald

>>30558387
Yes, and that's only in Emerald. The opposite legendary doesn't appear in R/S period.

>>30558402
>>30558409
Whoops.

>the only games to feature the opposite version's legendary in the story

Emerald did this.

Actually so did Gold and Silver loosely.

>>30558233
I didn't say they don't count, it's just the same exact shit you see over and over about BW constantly.

They're bandwagon opinions that I doubt you formed yourself, because half of them make no sense.

I didn't like most of the new poke designs and characters in B/W, but Ghetsis is still the best villain in the series with the best plan. Until he went crazy after the first game and went full-on warmonger.

>>30558518
Maybe the reason you see them over and over again is because they're true

>everybody says that ORAS cut Emerald content but since everybody is saying it it must be a bandwagon

>>30554903
>When you seek the truth, you have to accept the truth, regardless of whether it fits what you wanted. N didn't

You have to remember. N is probably around 17 or so years old. He has spent that ENTIRE time seeing Pokemon hate people and people abuse Pokemon. Then he meets ONE person and their Pokemon that go against what he was seen all this time.

This is an anomaly not truth. An outlier doesn't matter in the overall reality, but that is what sets him out on his journey. And as he sees more and more people and Pokemon that are the opposite of what he has believed his ENTIRE life he starts to change his ideals.

But he can't just abandon his followers and what he has led them and said prior. So he needs the MC to defeat him in their final battles of ideals to prove once and for all to him and his people who is truly correct. Only when losing in the end can he be free of his former ideals and his duties to his followers.

>>30558549
More like he's an autist who completely changed the ideals that he had been indoctrinated with all of his life (which would've changed if he had talked to fucking anybody because the pokemon universe is bascially paradise) after battling one dude without any dialogue about 3 times.

>>30558541
Or because they're a circlejerk on /vp/

Also, funny that you'd mention OR/AS considering it's probably the epitome of a /vp/ circlejerk. The game's overall reception is fine and it sold really well, recently surpassed HG/SS in sales even. Obviously not a widely disliked game. But that's what this board would have you believe.

>>30558549
But his followers are the ones who are abusing pokemon while practically every other npc you meet treats pokemon with respect

>>30558746

Team Plasma was sort of a cult consisting of 90% idiots. They probably have no trouble keeping contradicting ideas in their heads so long as they're told to.

>>30554228
The only true fire emblem is genealogy/holy war

>>30558486
>Emerald did this.
Emerald has no opposite you mongoloid.

>>30558147
Wrong, I hate the character for being a literal plot device and little else to the story; you hear about "super special snowflake" Nebby every 10 seconds even when it has jack all to do with the story. She's a weak character who whines all game and the plot is supposed to move because of her

tl;dr Lillie a bitch

>>30558518
Just because you disagree with the gripes people have with the game doesn't automatically make them bandwagon; besides, if people can't complain about the region, characters, designs story or mons, what WOULD you accept as valid complaints? Music? Framerate? You're just moving goalposts at this point

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>>30559073
Yeah, involving both of them is just the kind of thing you'd expect a third version to do, so it doesn't count.

>>30553749
The latest Fire Emblem did turn into pokémon, so this only seems fair to me.

>>30559787
After seeing Groudon without the helmet, I can't look at it the same way anymore

>>30554459
This is some meta bait