Top 8 in a Premier Challenge yesterday Clearly a healthy me

The eviolitr change was a lie right?

>>30505849
yes

Is it VGC or OU

>>30505822
oh boy

can't wait to see what happens in January

>>30505822
Oh boy it's time for yet another /vp/ talks about competitive while knowing nothing about competitive episode!

well, better than last time at least, someone post the pic, you know wich one

>>30505822
id suck arminmang's dick based on this one image

>>30505822
In fairness, the 2016 metagame diverged quite a bit by Worlds after we all thought it was solved two months in.
Not to say Worlds won't be Celesteela vs Tapu Koko every game, but it won't necessarily stay the same team few partners

Wasn't oranguru supposed to be actually good in doubles?

To think that we were dreaming of a multicultural meta with cool new viable strats... Le ebin oricorio, passimian and oranguru new teams

Also, shouldnt mimikyu be good in this?

>>30505822
Wonder why only the top guy used Bulu? It's clearly the best tapu, especially against other tapus

>>30505869
>celestia
>gyarados
vgc
vgc is a colossal joke and the only place you'll see shit like this, the worst OU had in recent memory was just denniss clones

>>30505869
>Noteworthy tournaments ever being held with Smogon rules
Good joke anon

>>30505869
What's the difference? Both are shit.

>>30505822
Garchomp was a mistake.

They could have left it out of the Alola Dex but they didnt.

>>30506035
It was probably the single most used thing on Showdown for the first week or so, but it was mostly because everybody thought they had great gimmick ideas with it, which ended up not being consistently effective.

Torkoal died off pretty quickly too.

>>30506070
well I mean when VGC tours look like the OP, it would make sense that people would play Smogon instead

>>30505822
What was the smeargle setting up? I assume tailwind.

>>30506050
Gee, I don't know.
Maybe it's that one Steel/Flying type in every game.

>>30506075
This. It had no reason to be in the Alolan dex and now it's running everything like it always does.

What makes Nihilist Eggo, Rainbow Muk and Garfield worth using?

>>30506153
you're ignorant

>>30506140
>Marowak used Flare Blitz!

>>30505822
The sad part is this is still better than the last two.

>>30506174

Yes, that's why I'm asking.

>>30505822
this could have been prevented if gamefreak banned the tapus and ubs like everybody thought they would

>>30506255
UBs aren't good.

>>30506153
Nihilego and Muk beat genies
Persian gets fast Fake Out and apparently Z-Parting Shot is good (although last I heard it was banned until a glitch got patched?)

i thought pheromosa was the super cancer, what happened?

>>30506255
Then everyone would just latch onto the next best thing and the same thing would happen.

>>30506293
Dies way too easily in 2v2.

>>30505822
This is a hell of a lot more varied than it was last generation.

>>30506293
Stop watching verlis videos.

>>30506293
Pheromosa is the cancer of singles. It's too frail for the doubles meta.

>>30506293

Doubles severely downgrades anything without bulk.

>>30506194
legitimately retarded

>>30506271
Celesteela is

>>30506293
in singles, yes. in doubles, no.

>>30506293

pheromosa is cancer in singles, VGC is doubles and it's trash there

Damn and I thought deck diversity was bad in tcgs. Pokemon is beyond unbalanced.

>>30505822
ArminMang is the only one who isn't a complete faggot.

http://pastebin.com/2tZtehHc
So that people can compare

>>30506293
I assume that was in singles. In doubles it's never been that great, gets no spread moves, mediocre coverage, and not quite powerful enough to get KOs, then gets KO'd even by resisted, spread-weakened Earthquakes.

Has any dank Power of Alchemy strategy been used with Muk yet?

>>30506255
Tapus are equivalent to "lesser" legendaries. Only retards thought they would be banned.

>>30506396
It's only like that in double for the most part. Other formats are more diverse.

Im suprised to see so many Nihilego is it good what is a good set to use for it

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>every team is topu keko, topu lel, or both
>also a topu bulul

>Tapu Koko on every team to prevent sleep
>none of the players even brought any sleep inducing move
God I hope all those people are just trying to counter the ORAS meta and once they realise they don't need Koko on every team they'll drop it. I'd expect shit like this to happen year two, maybe even three but not 2 weeks after the fucking launch

Wasn't Oranguru considered super viable around a week ago? What happened?

>>30506396

Name one tournament meta in any other video game or tcg that isn't awful.

>>30506543
>actually thinking people literally only use koko to prevent sleep

I always get a goot laugh at scrubs when they think they know what they're talking about.

>>30506543
Also because koko hits hard as shit dumbass.

>>30506492
Not really. WiFi singles has always been pretty centralised too. The only way Smogon can keep things balanced is by actively re-evaluating their banlist every few months.
Pokémon is just inherently an incredibly unbalanced game

>>30506543
It's for Celesteela.

>>30506543
Koko is just a threatening pokemon in general. They are not running it because of "countering sleep." They are running it because it's good.

>>30505822

And yet people look at me weird when I say I fucking hate competitive scenes.

I don't play competitive so forgive me if this sounds stupid. Why is Alolan Marowak so common? it was rather weak in game so I'm surprised

>>30505822
Wtf is alohan marowak really that good? I caught a cubone and just tossed it into my box cause I don't remember marowak ever being that good.

>>30505959
Well last time the games were out much longer so there all pokemon were known.
This is less than a month into the games release where they added 70 new pokemon and ability/stat changes. The meta being this centralized is worrying as its probably just going to get worse the more time people can experiment with it.

>>30505822
How to fix the meta AKA how Gamefreak should have done it:

-garchomp not in alolan dex (lmao)
-no salamence either
-no Tapus allowed
-NERF CELESTEELA
-other UBs are okay

There fixed. Now we can have a simple tournament of basically UUs for VGC17 which would be comfy as fuck.

The main problem is fucking CELESTEELA though. The reason everyone needs marowak + tapu koko is because you need TWO fucking counters to that fucking thing or else you auto-lose. If Celesteela got nerfed then you would see way better team diversity, and if tapus weren't allowed and garchomp were banned the team selection would really open up.

>>30506634

It's an explicit counter to ultra beasts.

>>30506634
>>30506643
Lightning rod to shit on Top Kek, great attack with Thick Club, and its typing counters a lot of relevant threats.

>>30506634
>>30506643
I'm assuming you didn't look for a Thick Club.

>>30505822
This is basically OU and UU shit with the exception of a few utility mons such as Smeargle and A-Persian. Smogon and VGC aren't so different after all, huh.

>>30506634
>>30506643
Can hold a thick club which gives it a huge attack stat while being able to invest in the defense stats, good tying against all the relevant UBs and tapus. It also has a great defensive type with lightning rod on top of that.

>>30506634
>>30506643
With an Adamant nature, 252 Attack EVs and Thick Club, it reaches 290 attack (compare it to the 145 attack without Thick Club), so it's going to hit incredibly hard. Aside from that, its typing is actually really good to wall the most common Pokemon, and its ability Lightning Rod simply shits on Tapu Koko and other electric mons.

>>30506721
To be honest, I didn't even know such an item existed.

Why is Porygon 2 in there but not Porygon Z?

>>30506769
Eviolite.

what are these assholes running on their gyrados?

are their builds available anywhere?

>>30506725

People who are trying to win are just going to use the things that are clearly way stronger than everything else because the game is poorly balanced.

Go to Smogon and play UU if you want any sort of diversity.

>>30505822
Why Krookodile? Power Trip?

>>30506815
simple protect/waterfall/ice fang/dragon dance holding waterium z.

>>30506862
Intimidate. Dark type Z move can OHKO Oranguru, I think. Earthquake is good too.

>>30506787
When does this item become less effective than just evolving the pokemon? I'm pretty curious actually since I just looked this item up. I've never really been into anything past the main story quest before.

>>30506862
for intimidate + earthquake you monkey

>>30506862
I would imagine access to Intimidate and a good spread move. He's one of the strongest EQs in the meta.

>>30506769
Porygon-Z has a nice niche with Z-Conversion, which raises all its stats, but Porygon2 has insane bulk to begin with.

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2 in Electric Terrain: 74-87 (38.5 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It has Trick Room, Recover, and gets Boltbeam and Shadow Ball, which means it can hit a lot of the top threats for super effective.

Well, shit. Here I was building a team with Wishiwashi and Oranguru. Might have to reconsider my priorities, fuck.

On another, I'm surprised people managed to build teams so quickly. Guessing they genned them.

>>30506915
The only mon that's unarguably better that its evo with eviolite is Chansey. Porygon 2 and Porygon Z aren't really comparable because they fulfill completely different roles: defensive for 2, and offensive for Z.

>>30506915
When its pre evo has good stats, for one. It could also work if there is an ability that the evolution doesn't get, like Friend Guard Clefairy.

>>30506925
>Porygon-Z has a nice niche with Z-Conversion,
it's shit in doubles.

>>30506376
>legitimately retarded
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 254-300 (124.5 - 147%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>30506990
now that gengar is shit, will haunter see some play?

>>30506725
except it's not at all

actually look up usage stats before making retarded statements like this

>>30506837
anyone who says UU has diversity or a good meta doesn't play UU :^)

>>30505822
>Arcanine

Burn up defensive set?

>>30507029
lel

Why is Koko so popular? He doesn't seem to have crazy offences, ability included.

>>30507026
if only you could press the switch button and go to Gyarados...

man, if only.......,......

>>30507029
t. Retard

File: IMG_3365.jpg (143KB, 747x548px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30506174
That's why people ask questions

Kys

>>30507068
It's fast as fuck, boiiiii

>>30505822
Le double core healthy meta of Tapus

>>30507026
Why are you posting about an unrelated pokemon you mong. "DURR WHY ISN'T TAPU BULU IN EVERY GAME" --> you were answered because it gets fucking walled by the most popular 'mon in the whole format. "UHH YEAH WELL IF YOU USE A DIFFERENT POKEMON WITH FULL ATTACK EVS AND ASSUME IT HAS NO PARTNER POKEMON AND DOESN'T PROTECT THEN YOU CAN KILL IT SOMETIMES UNLESS IT HAS A SUBSTITUTE!! SO THERE, HAHA I WIN NOW TAPU BULU SHOULD BE ON EVERY TEAM"

how fucking RETARDED are you son?

>>30505822
can someone explain Marowak to me. He seems like a total shitmon to me.

>>30507072
not sure if autistic
>>30507113
pretty sure you're autistic tho

>>30505822
Wasn't there someone with just 5 pokémon?

>>30507068
Electric terrain gives free Specs little guy

>>30507136
290 atk stat, good coverage, rekts celestememe

>>30507137
You are retarded

>>30507068
Outspeeds the vast majority of the metagame
Usually OHKOs Celesteela, which is its biggest contender for best Pokémon in the meta
Not horrendously frail and does big damage to almost anything

>>30507068
Don't be fooled by the 90 SpA. Thanks to its terrain, it essentially gets a free Choice Specs for electric attacks, and it can still hold an item (like another Choice Specs, but that'd set you back), so it can hit really hard with just T.Bolt. It's also as fast as Aerodactyl, and fast shit is always good to have.

>>30506035
The meta right now costantly evolves, if someone finds something very strong (like Torkoal + Oranguru) everyone will copy him, but then right after that everyone will also build teams to counter it.

So at the end of the day early VGC tournaments are composed by balanced "scout" teams more than anything.

>>30506075
I'm baffled why they nerfed M-Kanga but decided to leave this nigger intact even though Morimoto complained that both are being used too much on Battle Spot.

>>30507136
Thick Club doubles its attack, making it very powerful
Resists everything Celesteela and Tapu Koko do and can hurt them back
Lightningrod protects your own Celesteela partner from opposing electric attacks.

>>30506396
PTCG is extremely diverse and balanced compared to this crap

>>30507029
If anything, Gengar is now MORE threatening because of the Disable effect. I wouldn't want to get a STAB disabled in the late game.

>>30507180
sick argument bro

>>30506563
DotA. The internationals are diverse as fuck.

>>30507202
Garchomp has never been absolutely crazy though.
It's consistently good in every metagame it's allowed in, but it's never been the case that almost every player to top cut a tournament used it, which is the the case with M-Kangaskhan (2014-2016), Landorus-T (2015) and Groudon (2016)

>Porygon2 becoming a big guy
has my boy finally garnered the appreciation he deserves?

>>30506563
Any fighting game produced by katsuhiro harada

>>30507148
>>30507184
>>30507188
Thanks!

>>30507113
>get's walled by the most popular 'mon in the format
lol, it can wall me all day while its partners take terrain boosted 252+ woodhammers to the face, learn how the game works retard

>>30507318
He has been meta for years you dumb fuck

>>30507202
There is not much point in nerfing Garchomp now that Landorus-T outclasses it completely.

It will be a goner next format (assuming it's NatDex).

>>30507357
heavy slam OHKOs you, pretentious idiot. The partner can switch or simply protect and then you fucking die like a frail sad little kid

>>30506455
Bottom guy gave it Fur Coat probably

I'm a fucking idiot but what makes Koko better than Lele? I mean he has Electric Surge, but aside from the guy who has Xurkitree there doesn't seem any pokemon in those teams who benefits from it. Is it for fear of a Spore Smeargle?

>>30507409
It's to effectively give Celesteela a double weakness.

>>30505822
To be fair, this is WAY more diverse than previous worlds.

>>30507409
Koko has Discharge while Lele doesn't have any spread moves that benefit from Psychic Terrain

>>30507409
Fear of wallesteela and memesters running sleep powder Lilligant with Torkoal.

>>30507409
You don't have to build around a gimmick, electric terrain works wonders for tapu Koko alone.

>>30507394
if only you could press the switch button and go to Marowak...

man, if only.......,......

>>30507311
>Garchomp has never been absolutely crazy though.
Neither was Gengar or Talonflame yet look what happened.

Then again Gengar was nerfed only after that fag Sugimori left GameFreak. Maybe we should meme magic whoever designed Garchomp into leaving the company.

>>30507409
Tapo Koko beats Celesteela
Tapu Lele's 95 base speed occasionally causes problems

It's still a great Pokémon, it's just not always the best.

I kinda wanna try some of these teams. Is there a pastebin for any of these?

>>30507500
>"I WILL KILL ALL HIS TEAMMATES EVEN IF HE WALLS ME"

>actually he ohkos you

>"OH WELL I WILL SWITCH THEN"

I'm glad you can use your ActionReplay to attack and then switch without taking damage in the same turn but cheating devices aren't legal in a tournament setting.

>>30506071
OU slightly less

>>30507521
I thought Lele had 115 speed, goddamn my shit memory. Then yeah, it's not as threatening as I thought it was. Also yeah, I hadn't considered Celesteela

>>30507202
Fucking morimoto, instead of playing those shitty metas why doesn't he direct a game.

>>30507793
he's technically in charge of the battle system and thus balancing the game
20 years and he still can't get it right

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>removing genies and megas will make the game more balanced guys!

>>30507555
You seem mad anon.

When I brought up Marowak, I was merely employing your own logic against you, that being that just because something has a hard counter doesn't mean it's unplayable.

Obviously, Marowak on every team does not invalidate Celesteela, and Celesteela on every team clearly doesn't invalidate Tapu Bulu seeing as the fucking winner has it on their team.

My original post was about why Bulu wasn't seeing more use, a question you seem rather intent on avoiding in your pursuit of appearing as autistic as possible.

You're welcome to respond like a reasonable person, or stop posting you mongoloid.

>>30507943
The tapus are way better than genies though

What set for Celelsteela/Koko/Marrowak? I'm guessing the Gyara is bulky, Bulu and Chomp are standard.

>>30507113
>this is what happens when someone gets BTFO

glorious

>>30505914
the lack of variety is still cancer.

I hate Garchomp so much

>>30508392
>lack of variety
>no 2 teams are exactly the same
>no mon is on every team

>>30508392
It's almost like this is a turn based strategy game where people seek to find the best combination of pieces instead of randomly picking shit and go blind at the tournament.

>>30508488
Ignoring 8th place, there are 14 total Pokemon on 7 different teams. That's pretty shit variety.

>>30508485
Still less cancerous than Landorus-T

>>30508252
Koko is standard too. Most people run this:

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Discharge
- Protect

As for Marowak, this is quite popular:

Marowak-Alola (F) @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Protect

>>30508575
Celesteela is more cancerous than Lando-T

>>30508603
>(F)

File: 18.png (85KB, 370x320px) Image search: [Google]

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Reminder that Smogon did almost nothing wrong, at least compared to VGC.

>Does more than just arbitrarily hit box mascots and events
>Doesn't take 3 fucking years to even try to balance the game
>Supports formats beyond just doubles
>Actually tries to give a place for weaker Pokemon to play

>>30508618
celesteela is just neo-cress

>>30508706
it's for strategically avoiding Rivalry :^)

Is Porygon2 just an anti-meta tank right now? I always thought it was usually used on Trick Room teams, but obviously none of these are Trick Room teams. Are people even running the move, to get "outspeeds" on tapu koko or something?

>>30508618
Celesteela just walls you if you for some reason run out of SE moves.

Lando-T intimidates, hits with a strong rockslide, is fast, is strong, is relatively bulky and makes you coffee.
When people say remove genies they mostly just mean remove Lando-T

>>30505822
>cherrypicking, the top 256 are pretty diverse!

>>30508574
>if we ignore the most diverse team then the format isn't nearly as diverse
shit, if we ignore 2nd-8th there are only 6 different pokemon, what kind of cookie cutter garbage format is this?

memes aside, 14 pokemon between 7 teams isn't even bad. A solved format like in previous seasons would mean 6, maybe 7 different pokemon, but we have four-fucking-teen, over twice that. That's diverse if I ever saw it, and like I said, there is no pokemon that is on every single team.

>>30508764
Have fun in your smogon thread then anon.

>>30508603
Not that anon, but any idea what the rest of his team was? Gyara, Chomp, Bulu, and Celesteela? Wanna try this cancer myself.

>>30508603
what does that marowak ev spread even do?

i'm retarded btw

The guy at 8 has superb taste

>>30508618
Celesteela is a pain but Lando-T is too good at what it does. It makes Garchomp look like a shitmon.

Any VODs of the matches?

>>30507318
>>30507360
Yeah I'm sick of it being better than Z

>>30508904
Survive against Tapu Lele's psychic and KO her back

>>30508488

48 spaces taken up by 15 out of 801 pokemon.

yeah, that's real varied...

>>30508894
The first 3 are just 252/252. No idea on Celesteela though. I asked a bunch of people but they never respond, and I have absolutely no idea of what spread to use. Moveset is pretty much always Heavy Slam/Leech Seed/Sub/Protect though.

>>30508904
Lives Lele's Psychic on its terrain every single time. I forgot what else it was for.

>>30509023
>801 pokemon
>namefag
go shitpost somewhere else fag

>>30509037
What's he running on Garchomp and Gyara? Bulu I'm guessing is Horn Leech, Hammer, Protect, and Stone Edge

>>30508904
>>30509022
>>30509037
why the 4 def? it would make sense if it were a 252/252 spread or something, but when does 1 stat point matter outside of speed?

>>30508937
At least Z is better in singles now

Why do you guys even reply to retards baffles me.
This happens every single time, why do you even bother.

What kind of set the Porygon2s ran? Mine is an offensive one with just boltbeam and recover, I've seen a tri-attack and TR one during the tournament but had to go after that.

>>30509037
Probably a Relaxed one.

>>30509081
Leftover EVs. Also, at level 50, just 4 EVs on a defense can change damage rolls significantly. Of course, it won't make huge difference like always living something, but it will change them in your favor.

>>30509022
Does Sash Shell Smash Minior have a niche for that? Especially with a wide guard partner? I'm just getting creative and this is probably dumb but I like my happy geode bro

>>30505822
>gotta have a good meal is actually getting usage
I thought it would be a non factor until Z Parting Shot got fixed

>>30509126
I guess, but I'd rather put it towards speed to win ties against other marowaks

6x Top Kek
6x Celesteela
6x Gyarados
6x Marowak A
4x Garchomp
3x Top Lel
3x Porygon2
3x Nihilego
2x Persian A
2x Krookodile
1x Top Bull
1x Arcanine
1x Metagross
1x Smeargle
1x Xurkitree
1x Braviary
1x Muk A
(The last three belonged to the same guy, who didn't get past the quarter finals)

>>30506069
deniss clones?

>>30509126
also, how can it be "leftover" if it's not a 252/252 spread? that implies that every single other EV is intended for something, in which case, what is the 4 EVs in speed for?

>>30509145
I think Minior can have its niche better in singles

>>30509181
Baton Pass teams being top of the ladder for months.

>>30509167
There is already 4 EVs on speed for that.

>>30509193
Now that I take a closer look at the spread, it really doesn't seem like they were leftovers, so scratch that. However, since all Pokemon are level 50, you can't just add 4 EVs to add one point to a stat, you actually have to add 8 after the first 4, or else you'll be wasting valuable EVs. Most players take these leftover ones and put them in defenses or speed, since leaving them in other stats won't do anything.

>>30505822
Makes me wonder what the Japanese VGC looks like.

>>30509195
That's what I figured. I love the little guy, but Smash, Explosion, Rocks, u-turn is a singles lead/pivot set and I don't super love it as a sweeper regardless. The moveset I just suggested probably isn't good. It just works for me and explosion makes me laugh

>We will never get a meta like vgc 2014 ever again

>>30505822
There are 801 Pokemon out right now (excluding Marshadow) and this is how the competitive scene is. How can anyone not find this boring? You would know every single strategy the other person is using about 95% of the time.

>>30509301
But this IS like 2014, except there is no Mega Mom. Heck, even worlds was pretty much standard shit bar the stupid squirrel.

>>30509376
To be fair, I still think about that damn Pachirisu. I love cute niche mons though.

>>30509374
Not all 801 Pokémon are out right now in terms of VGC availability, friendo.

>>30509301
>muh pachirisu
why do Karenfags come to threads for competitive?
you probably don't even play VGC you mong
why do people like this exist for almost every competitive game? No, you can't expect to do cutesy shit and win. Nobody is stopping you from taking a team of pokemon you like to the ladder, but if you do that and expect to win you're stupid. You're not entitled to win games, people win when they utilize the best resources available to them.

So has anybody found reliable counters to celestela in doubles? Koko has a 94% chance to OHKO after rocks, but that seems to be the only reliable kill in my experience.

>>30509523
>OHKO after rocks
What is a rock?

>>30509374
It is important to remember that VGC17 is Alola Dex only though. That said, be the change you want to see in the meta. Notice a mon is good but under used? Start winning matches with it somewhere visible

>>30509523
>rocks
>doubles
Are SR relevant in doubles now?

>>30509538
Pursuit Rocks. Yep. Pursuit Rocks. Not the stealthy ones.

>>30509557
No. They're still too slow.

>>30509557
If you want to lose 100% of the time, yes, of course.

>>30509523
>>30509523
>So has anybody found reliable counters to celestela in doubles?
Literally any fire and and electric type.

Holy fuck have you people never dealt with a Ferrothorn ever before in your whole lifes?

>>30509590
Pursuit Rocks just makes me think of some poor sap being chased by an angry swarm of Roggenrola

>>30509557
I mean I must be autistic, because the only way i can reliabily kill a Celesteela is having a team built around setting up stealth rocks in fucking doubles with Topu Keko.

>>30509523
I just slam my Fire Z-Move Arcanine carries when I see one.

>>30509624
>smogonbaby talking about doubles
haha lol get outta here

>>30509658
Ferrothorn has gotten tons of use in Doubles. What the hell are you going on about you mong?

>>30509632
Celesteela is why there's Marowak on those teams, mang

>>30509458
woah dude calm down lmao

>Wolfey still unironically talks about physical Koko

Just let it go man.

>>30509658
Please tell me your only pretending to be retarded.
Ferrothorn has seen lots of use in doubles.

What is a good set for A-Marowak?

>>30509733
Can you recommend a good set for Top Cock? I just caught all the Tapu except for Bulu last night who I'm still SRing

>>30509523
Every counter has a counter, but off the top of my head the following counter it in a theoretical 1v1:
>Tapu Koko
>Marowak
>Porygon2
>Raichu
>Xurkitree
>Torkoal

Water-types like Gyarados and Lanturn can do well against a lot of them, too.

>>30509799
>>30508603

>>30509590
>Rock-type Pursuit
This kills the Charizard.

>>30509799
Timid
Life Orb/Focus Sash/Expert Belt
252SpA 252Spe 4HP
Thunderbolt
Dazzling Gleam
Volt Switch / Discharge / HP Ice
Protect

You can have a more specialised set when you're old enough.

>>30509847
>>30509879
Dope, thanks. I appreciate it

What are the most important things to survive in this meta?

Are there any specific spreads for Krookodile?

I was thinking Adamant @Choice scarf with 244 Atk, 172 Spe (enough to outspeed timid Koko) and 90HP as leftover EVs.

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>>30509992
A-Marowak counters most everything big. Koko, Celesteela(non physical set), Pheremosa, Mosquito-Man, and has STAB advantage on Tapu Baele. He's basically the anti-meta pick, and because of this, he's become meta.

>>30510319
Most people run 252/252. That spread isn't bad at all though, so give it a try. I like when people actually experiment with spreads and try to reach specific benchmarks instead of just maxing everything.

>>30505822
but what were the sets that picture literally means next to nothing without knowing the sets

>>30510435

Planning to use A-Maro, but I meant moves to survive.

I'm still on 1600 on BS so I want to make a meme team, does Triage work on Psychic Terrain? I tested it on showdown and it works, but why the hell should it work?

>>30509523
ive been considering salazzle because toxic would fuck up the stalling moon princess but it doesnt have fake out yet so idk what else i can throw on it

>>30506255
They've NEVER EVER banned legendaries with a BST of 580 or lower.

NEVER

NO ONE EXPECTED THEM TO BE BANNED

>>30510688
Nevermind, I was running floral veil, it doesn't work.

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>>30509590
>>30509626
>>30509863

>>30506255
literally who thought theyd be banned i never even heard any one thinking of that until this post

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>>30510827

>>30507079
>Look at that retard asking a question Ahahaha XD

>>30506255
If that happened everyone would just go and use the second strongest option, aka in this gen weather wars. The variety wouldn't have changed much.
Now instead of Tapu Koko you have Torkoal and instead of Tapu Lele you have Pelipper.

Just because you banned the legendaries it doesn't mean Pyukumuku suddenly becomes usable.

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>>30506255

Tapus and UBs only have 570 BST, they're considered "sub-legendaries".

"True" legendaries, the ones that are banned, usually have BSTs of 680.

Mythicals are banned due to being event-only.

>>30509557
No. If they were GF would've nerfed them ages ago.

It's a good thing Gengar was nerfed, meanwhile Garchomp lol!!!

It's health? Great!
It's speed? Great!
So it must have low damage yes? lol, nope, that's great too!

But it's balanced by it's shallow movepool and lack of coverage, giving it [nearly everything it wants] and being checked by [literally nothing]

It's so shit it needs to be a mega, and also lets put it in that fighting game because it's so underexposed?

We also put it in this game because we are smart! Could have left it out but nope.

I mean there are so many pokemon but they aren't Garchomp so FUCK OFF and use GARCHOMP don't use ANYTHING ARRRGHH GOOD GAME BALANCE

>That one wack ass team at the bottom with Braviary and Alolan Muk.
I mean he still has a top kek, but credit for being different. I can't actually figure out why the Braviary is there though.

>>30510915
Gamefreak should know that BST doesn't mean shit if it isn't distributed well

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>>30510795

>>30511002
t. Rekt by Cynthia

>>30505822
I don't play this, what does Celesteela run in VGC? I think I remember it getting Wide Guard, but what else? Also why is Gyarados so popular in Koko: The Meta? Does marowak support help it that much

>>30511031
Defiant.

>>30511257
Gyara is popular because it's a support mon that also has offensive presence. It can weaken Garchomp with intimidate and ohko it with ice fang. iirc -1 ice fang still ohkos Salamence as well.

It's also the best user of roar that's available right now. Roar completely shuts down trick room and boost strats, which are both common in the meta. Roar has higher priority than trick room for those wondering how that works.

Arcanine is good too for the same reasons as Gyara and will probably see more use as the meta matures.

>>30511257
Leech seed
Heavy slam
Protect
Sub/Wide Guard/Flamethrower

You mostly just use her endgame to wall anything that doesn't do SE damage.

>Last place has the most original team

>>30506553
desu its most likely these teams were all prepped and ready to be bred/genned even before the game came out. meta has changed loads since then.

>>30511400
really makes you think

>>30511400
It's almost like you win from being good and using what's good and consistent and being a special snowflake doesn't mean you are entitled to win!

Still though, props to him for making top cut with that team. Koko + Xurxitree is full on madman strategy.

>>30511176
mythics arent legendaries

>>30505822

>Using legendaries

What a bunch of homos

>>30511382
M-Gyara also shuts down choiced Top Lel Psychic spam

>>30511590
Megas are banned from VGC2017, all those Gyaras are regular bulky support builds.

>>30511590
Megas are banned in VGC17

>>30505822
>Krookodile

How? What happened?

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>>30505822
Oh wow people use what works well instead of trying to make "your bros" viable?

I really don't get your complaint, OP.

>>30511662
Intimidate is great in Doubles
Landorus is banned
Krookodile is mini-Landorus

Every time a new VGC meta shows up, right at the start of the season. OH LOOK GUYS, IT'S CENTRALIZED
every fucking time. The game hasn't even been out for a fucking month and people are criticizing an underdeveloped meta. This is just another image that'll be shown in a year as an example of VGC even though it's only accurate to the first two fucking weeks of a game's meta. Goddamn am I sick of smogon dickriders.

>>30511666
the complaint is that these six pokemon outclass everything else so hard that nothing else is worth using and there's barely any balance.

>>30506740
>>30506746
And it's immune to Burn and trapping moves.

>>30511724
Except that's literally wrong. See >>30511717

>>30511724
Hmm I see more than six up there.

Joking aside I don't see an issue. People are going to use the best they can get in order to win.

>>30511666
He's saying these teams are unoriginal and it's not worth having 800 something Pokemon if only 10 or so are viable.

What's the fastest Pokemon that can reliably oneshot Bamboo Waifu? I don't really like A-Marowak that much.

>>30506071
So if both suck what's the good format?

Daily fact: RU is the most hipster tier.

>>30511829
Tapu Koko.

>>30511817
Really, just stay away from these threads, as you clearly know nothing about the format.

>>30507038
>anyone who says UU has diversity or a good meta doesn't play UU :^)
This, NU is where it's at

>>30506673
- BAN TAPUS
- BAN LEGENDS
- BAN UBs
FIXED

>>30511883
>252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 90-108 (44.1 - 52.9%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO

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>tfw your gen 7 Pokéwaifu is viable
Are tsareenafags even trying

>>30512089
I can do that too:

>252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela in Electric Terrain: 218-260 (106.8 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>30512110
No need to act surprised that the fucking legendary with good a typing and ability is viable anyway

>>30512129
>specs koko

>>30512129
Minus electric train missing his calc is closer to being accurate though. Nobody runs modest koko and nobody runs specs on it.

Meanwhile spdef Celesteela is common, because fire blast/flamethrower and thunder/thunderbolt/discharge are the most common moves hitting it supereffectively.

>>30507311
uh yes it has

do you remember DP when smogon banned it due to sand veil yachechomp being just totally fucking busted in singles? It was still like at 20% usage in ubers.

>>30512452
Meanwhile, in the entire history of VGC going back to 2008, Garchomp has only ever appeared in a single Masters World Championship finals (2014)

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>>30505822
>Mfw /vp/'s retarded ass told me Nihilego was literally the worst Ultra Beast
>mfw I laughed at you ignorant fuccboi's for saying such retarded shit
>Mfw this list

Incoming asshurt from angry anons who are upset that their favorite ultra beast is shit where as my mind raping favorite is tearing it up in the top 8.

>"B-b-b-but it was supposed to just be a special wall with no recovery s-s-stop, Clefable is better"
K . e . K

>>30507246
At least I can use the Pokemon I like there without people being triggered by LE SHIDMONS :DDDD

>>30506990
What about Type Null?

>>30512924
Nobody (outside of /vp/ scrubs that don't even play the game, of course) will care if you use something obscure if you can back up why you picked it and what role does it play.

>>30505822
What makes nihilego and celeestela so good?

>>30512875

But everyone always said Guzzlord is the weakest one.

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Guys I just got back from a tournament, and holy fuck what kind of shit game is this? Everyone was using the same team of Rook/Bishop/Knight/Queen/King with 8 pawns. I tried using my own lineup of all knights I got yelled at. WTF I just wanted to play with my bros not have a stupid competitive match where everything is the same. The worst part is everyone uses the stupid queen piece which is broken as fuck and can move everywhere. I tried playing a match without moving mine and got utterly decimated, meaning you HAVE to use it to stay competetive. WTF is that bullshit? It should just be banned.

what a shit fucking game, at least try to have some variety not the same pieces over and over.

>>30513175
The difference is that the basic rules of Pokemon don't require you to use GACK

>>30513076

Nihilego is the best stealth rocks user so far

Celesteela has two immunities, only two weaknesses, almost guaranteed 120 BP STAB move that has 100% accuracy in addition to an excellent movepool, and has a stat distribution and movepool to allow it to do a lot of different things very well.

>>30513233
That's neato m8, What nature should i run for Celestia? already captured a timid nihilego for my team

>>30513175

>It's appropriate to compare a board game designed around players always having the same team and battlefield with a video game that has hundreds of different fighters, attacks, abilities, and various conditions to choose from at your leisure

VGC defenders, everyone.

>>30505822
Tapu Fini?
More like Tapu Shiti

>>30513233

>Nihilego is the best stealth rocks user so far

Aren't entry hazards fairly pointless in doubles though?

Or at least that's what the memelords are always saying.

>trying to practice VGC on battlespot
>everyone is using megas and hacked in egg moves that are illegal pre-bank
I still managed to get to the 1700s with my vgc legal team but this is bullshit. There should be a separate vgc rules battlespot.

>>30513490
b8

Gamefreak does it again

>>30513365

but 99% of pokemon can serve their niche in other things, either serving a pupose in-game, or helping sell merchandise by being cute, or appealing to certain types of players and appearing in other media.

This is strictly the top-tier competitive scene. There's no rule that says more variety = a better game. A fun game with like 10 usable mons is infinitely better than a boring one with 800.

>>30513519
How is it bait? I'm just venting my frustration with battlespot rules.

I forgot to mention Island Scan pokemon too. Aegislash is on every other team as well.

>>30506069
i'm sorry you can win at real competitive pokemon and not at your fictional playground pokemon club

lmoa c:

>>30513554
Because there is a whole fucking ladder where you can stay away from megas, because, guess what, it's a VGC ladder!

>>30513490
I assume this is bait especially since megas aren't banned.

Eitherway 99% of shit I've been running across on BS is people using shitty in game teams

>>30513545
I wish some people understood this.

The only reason why I'd want Pokemon to be more balanced is so people don't get triggered by the Pokemon I like because they're not on their competitive teams

>>30513587
Is it live yet? I swear I didn't see a vgc ladder on battlespot.

>>30513589
Megas are banned in vgc2017 though.

>>30513554
Island scan pokemon aren't banned

>>30506673
>there fixed
>another line up of super common, boring and used mons appears
retard
this happens on fanfic metas like smogon too

>>30505822
every time fags cry about how Smogon didn't ban stealth rock or how they banned x Pokemon or how evasion is balanced, and how Smogon is a shit centralized metaI just point them to the usage stats for VGC and they shut up

seriously, look at this shit, there's basically only one viable core and there's about ten viable Pokemon

>>30513641
Official rules state Alola dex only Pokemon are permitted.

>>30513636
It's there since day one, and they even advertised it in a trailer.

>>30513490
Hope you're one of those kids I destroyed on bs who immediately rage quit :^)

>>30513590
Sounds about right. I like gimmicky unusual mons and I play a lot of RU, but I definitely believe that the e-sports Worlds tier players deserve their optimized mons too

>>30506396
Gen 4 competitive

so, I've gathered the moveset and nature from this thread, but celesteela seems like it warrants more thought than a simple 252/252 spread. What should it be running?

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>>30505914
>it's another VGCfag defends a stale meta episode
It's like you don't even see a problem with everyone running the same 6 mons.

>>30514229
>hey, look at me! I can cherrypick bad formats that aren't the one this thread is discussing!
>pls reply
(you)

@30514229
>cherrypicking the top cut of an old-ass tournament

no sir, you ain't getting a (you) from me

>>30514229
wtf i hate winning without my minority rappresentance now

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>>30514297
Nigga all formats are terrible, I just figured that guy was whining about VGC. OU is just as stagnant as VGC, and you could say the same for all smogon tiers except MAYBE PU.

The main issue with Pokemon as a competitive game outside the reliance on RNG is simply that their are specific mons that do their specified role better than any other ones. The solution would have been to keep the number of pokemon smaller and working on balancing those for play instead of gamefreak's idea of introducing massive power creep every new generation.

>>30512875
The worst is Kartana, let's not kid ourselves

>>30515105
>The worst is Guzzlord, let's not kid ourselves

fixed.

>>30513452
Why do you think the top users don't have Nihilego?

Is this the thread where I'm supposed to act bewildered at the fact that a game involving stats and strategy has people picking the best possible options in their composition?

>>30507026
b8? he was talking about skarmory