This is the sum of gen VI's competitive, ignoring smogon.

>>30441438
>bronzong
Veepee told me it wad a shit mon.

>>30441438
What makes hitmontop a better rapid spinner than anyone else

>>30441478
It's not there for Rapid Spin. It's there for Fake Out, Intimidate, Wide Guard, and Fighting coverage.

Although this brings up a good point that OP's pic doesn't sum up Gen VI at all since excluding Smogon essentially excludes Singles.

>>30441478
>rapid spin in doubles
Intimidate, close combat, wide guard, fake out, feint

>>30441438
>There will never be another VGC14

>>30441501
>>30441497
Never realised my favourite Pokemon of all time had this much competitive presence, that makes me happy

shame that he's not legal this gen

>>30441462
Well, Veepee was fucking wrong.

>>30441478
I can't believe people still play singles

>>30441438
Its a sad sight seeing VGC 2014. The variety in mons makes things interesting and more enjoyable for players and spectators.

>>30441438
>ignoring Smogon
No, I say throw it in there as well. There's just as much copy+paste teams in the OU ladder as there are in VGC.

>>30441531
VGC gets worse every year

>>30441552
hence why they literally gutted most of it by forcing people to use alolan dex only

they made alolan dex with comp in mind, yet still left in garchomp

kill me

Wtf happened between VGC 14 to now? Where did all the originality go?

>>30441438
Jesus primal forms are cancer.
They are not treated as a mega so why wouldn't you have 2 primals AND a mega on your team.

Gotta show some love to hitmontop though.

But seriously though, who at gamefreak thought primals should be treated like a seperate thing from megas.

>>30441563
grachomp isn't even a top threat
torkoal is the real shit

>>30441563
Garchomp can't have stealth rocks before bank right? So at least thats something

>>30441575
It's all about the money, friend. As esports continues to grow, it will be more about that 10,000 bucks waiting at the end.

>>30441575
ORAS happened

>>30441438
the fuck is with the nips dominating 2015?

>>30441531
Then you're really deluded, especially after experiencing 2015 and 2016. OU has had far more diversity and options of team approach than VGC and is thus more fun to play because of relative inclusiveness.

>>30441552
imo it sucks that everyone and their mom used genies and other legendaries. sucks to acquire them with good natures and ivs

could never really get into vgc because I didn't SR all my legendaries like an autist

>>30441438
2014 was top tier

>>30441438
Allowing legendaries was a mistake.

>>30441650
thank god for being a dirty cheater. I'll breed for everything else but I'm not putting up with that bullshit.

>>30441515
It was bad

>>30441438
>not a single megamom before 15
how
why

>>30441438
>sejun park was so powerful his main was put out as an event pokemon in his native land.

>>30441692
If you're going to cheat with the legendaries, why not just do it for everything? Seems pretty silly to still breed.

>>30441692
tfw legitly breeding my whole team

albeit with a hacked ditto. fuck that shit getting a legit 6iv ditto[s/poiler]

>>30441730
>having powersaves but actually breeding manually anyway because I like playing

>>30441741
I'm not the only one, then

>>30441741
>legitly breeding
>with a not-legit ditto
That's not how it works

>>30441526
Luchalitten is a Hitmontop 2.0 mixed with Arcanine, it does Everything they do but better

>>30441763
Wrong no feint or wide guard or fighting coverage

>>30441763
Its HA isn't available tho

>>30441763
Luchalitten can rapid spin?

wew

>>30441763
Arcanine is much better than tony the tiger.

>>30441759
idgaf. offspring is legit. fuck the police

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>Pokebank will open and we'll be back to the same garbage meta

Why even go on afterwards?

>>30441730
I honestly kinda like breeding. It makes a good before-bed activity and there's just enough to it to elevate it above the tedium of SRing

>>30441712
2014 was an X/Y regional dex only format, but I'm not sure how that impacts Kangaskhan.
Did its killer app not come around until ORAS move tutors?

>>30441712
It was so expected that the natural response was everyone being capable of answering it at that level of the competition.

In 2015, they tried the same thing, but CHALK covers too much ground on its own, so reliability overcame the desire to counterteam. I really thought Cybertron would get far after he won the tourney at Apex with his Mega Venu + Suicune + Wisp Gengar team, which was pretty fresh, but I think everyone using CHALK as a crutch was too overwhelming to keep playing against. Look at how the guy who came in first has the most CHALK team of them all.

>>30441752
Or like me..
>have powersaves
>just give myself 99 of all the pokeballs
>99999 pokebucks


Now i can practice my balltism without fear of using up all of "x" ball.
Now i can buy all the shit i need and just focus on breeding and training.

>>30441833
I've been playing for a week straight (eurofag) since it came out, approx 7 hours a day

while also working 8 hours a day like a normalfag

no regrats

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>>30441810

>>30441526
Same bro, fucking love Hitmontop

>>30441875
CHALK?

>>30441877
honestly im currently using powersaves to 1) clone jpn 6iv ditto for friends and 2) give a few mons 252 evs since I don't have the bp yet for proper ev training

it's a hassle to do, though. gonna get myself a minimize muk this weekend to cheese battle royal, acquire bp and said power items

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>30441915
Cresselia, heatran, amoongus, lando, kanga I'm guessing.

>>30441438
I like 2014 fifth place's team. It's cool.

>>30441612
Why do you assume he's talking about smogon rather than singles vs. doubles in general? Doubles are more fun than singles.

>>30442128
Because going back to his original point, Rapid Spin is mainly seen for 6v6 battles since hazards are much less of a priority in 3v3.

>>30441438
Damn, why'd Bronzong get so much usage?

>>30442191
Counters Xerneas and Groudon can't touch it if rain is up. Pretty logical don't you think?

>>30441612
Vgc sucked for the last 2 years but dubs is still more fun. Battlespot doubles, smogon doubles, ect

>>30442191
It balks the ubers.

Why did they even let Ubers into VGC, anyway?

>>30442217
See, it's balance because your only allowed to use two of them in a single battle.

>>30441803
nice bait

>>30442217
They let two per team in every few years.
Normally its a fun meta shake up, as VGC likes to have a new ruleset or game each year

>>30442182
They're also much less common in Smogon 6v6 doubles than they are in OU.

singlesfag here, why aren't entry hazards a big deal in doubles

>>30441575

They opened up the roster of legal Pokemon.

Spoiler alert: Restricting the dex is actually a good thing for competitive. Almost all of the "balanced" legendaries and their buddies are pure fucking cancer.

>>30441612
The thing is that diversity and fun aren't mutually exclusive. VGC has massive problems with GF having lax as fuck restrictions which leads to certain outright broken mons dominating the team selections. However, that doesn't mean that doubles isn't an inherently strategic, deep or fun metagame, which many doubles players would argue it is in comparison to singles.

>>30442342
matches are usually not long enough to warrant them

and spend a turn setting up entry hazards = giving an enemy a turn in wrecking your pokemon instead

>>30442342
It's also doubles 4v4, so half your team is out at any given time.
It's harder to get a safe opening like switching into a flying type expecting earthquake, especially if there's the chance of switching into earthquake and rock side at the same time

>>30442342
Less switching and smaller team size

>>30442214
Doubles is much more probability than skill, which is also why it's not as fun.

Even the good players get screwed over like that, and it's worse because there's actually a reward they're losing out on rather than it being purely for entertainment.

I don't know how Ray Rizzo was able to pull 3 straight wins, but you can see how Cybertron and Wolfe and Sejun had to keep going at it for multiple years.

>>30441438
This over centralization is why I've never bothered with the "competitive" side of Pokemon. Trying to make tiers like smogon is just putting a band-aid on the gaping wound. Don't get me wrong, I love the games and battling can actually be a pretty excited experience, especially with friends. But the moment you start crunching numbers and formulating strategies, only the same handful of Pokemon will ever be useful or viable out of hundreds. It's like that meme about Smash Bros being competitive when everyone is using Fox, no items, Final Destination.

That said, enjoy the game how you like. This post wasn't actually written to rile your inevitable autism.

>>30442342
Similar reason its not in 3vs3.
You only bring 4, and half of that starts on the feild.
Having 2 mons also increases the chances you'll have an answer on the field, with protect on everything stoppung defensive switching being as prevelant.

TLDR: not big enough team, not enough switches

>>30442387
Cybertron lost mostly to WoW miss hax
Wolfe admits that he lost for trying to special snowflake his teams, and won the moment he stopped

>>30442340
Well yeah, Doubles has a higher priority for ally support and offensive measures than support for what's in the back, not to mention you're harder pressed to waste a turn dealing with hazards since offense setup is much faster.

>>30442366
See >>30442387 as my main complaint apart from exclusivity, which is the extra variables that have to be dealt with.

>>30441462
there are no ranked competitive players on /vp/

>>30441763
Arcanine has decent bulk + morning sun + ex speed, no way baracat can be better

>>30442367
>>30442371
>>30442376
>>30442410

In other words, doubles are a glorified standoff where whoever shoots first wins?

>>30442450
>Wolfe admits that he lost for trying to special snowflake his teams
When did he admit this? I wanna get a good giggle.

>>30442387
>>30442496
No, I'd say it's the opposite. The fact that the same guy has managed to win three world championships and the fact that the same names are almost always found in the top 8 or 16 spots speaks heavily against VGC being based on coinflips. Like that other anon said, the only year Wolfe Glick has performed poorly was when he tried a special snowflake team because he wanted to live up to that underdog mythos Americans worship.

Pokemon has inherent elements of luck and doubles amplify some of those further, but the best of 3 format they run also eliminates much of that luck and doesn't let people who can't actually play and only got lucky slip through the cracks.

I'm also curious to hear why you think probability matters more in doubles that singles, and how singles would somehow involve any more "skill" than any other format.

As a side note, this interview with Wolfe is genuinely interesting and brings up a lot of good points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgbzT_x3-sc

>>30442544
Fake Out is very useful in dubs and already gives it a niche over Arcanine. Incineroar could be really great in this season's VGC especially without Hitmontop.

It remains to be seen if they'll release Intimidate within the season however.

>>30442608
That's why protect goes on everything.

>>30442613
At 10:30 in the interview >>30442653 linked

>>30442653
People overrate the luck aspect of Pokemon.

If Ray could win Worlds three fucking times in a row and you always see people consistently topping at events then there's no way Pokemon is all about who gets the most RNG going. It influences? Of course, but luck management is part of Pokemon. Pokemon is all about resource management as well and last but not least team building which I say is the most important aspect of Pokemon. Making the right meta-call for a tournament is a massive factor and let's use everyone favorite shitty squirrel as an example for that where Sejun decided to use it for redirection over Amoonguss because everyone and their mom was prepared for the mushroom.

>>30442745
>If you actually want to get better at this game you have to look at the game the way it actually is rather than the way you want it to be
>I want to believe I was the best because I was super creative but the results didn't back me up
Words to live by.

>>30441438
2014 was awesome, apart from that it's just repetitive fucking bullshit with everyone spamming the same, bring shitmons. It almost feels like a horrible Patch of Dota 2 or even League of Losers

>>30442608
Protect is the doubles defensive switch.
Offensive switch is still a thing.
So not really

>>30442653
I hopped through the video a bit and went to the ~10 min mark too. He does say the better player doesn't win.

However, that talk of special snowflake losing vs. buckling down this year doesn't aptly describe the experience. He was still being creative if you listen to the way he describes his application of Raichu unconventionally, but it's just that he's not going to get a big head and try to make an Exeggutor work. So his buckling down wasn't really that much conforming, just him not thinking he can win with anything by courtesy of his skill level.

I don't think he fully understands the situation either. In 2015, countermeasures to CHALK didn't work, while in 2016, countermeasures to the Big 6 did work, so it's not something that's easily dismissed as going one way or the other.

And the elements of luck are things from Singles but obviously magnified because 4 mons are involved at a time rather than 2, e.g. paralysis, flinching, missing. Swagger is allowed and exploited. Sleep is heavily exploited. Protect is a main facet of the game so picking the right mon to hit, especially at higher levels of play where they may predict which one you think they'll Protect, can become a coin flip. And then there's the coin toss in itself of who wins when a Protect move is executed the second time in a row.

>>30442758
This. It's why Flamethrower is used over Fire Blast, Reliability > Power. There are some crit-focused builds, but I never see them in VGC.

>>30441438
I will never understand competitive pokemon, it's a soulless number cruncher that was never meant to be.

Is it because these guys have no actual skill so they can't play actual competitive games like Fighting/RTS/etc?

>>30441438

They allow multiple legendaries let alone one?

>>30443211
>He was still being creative if you listen to the way he describes his application of Raichu unconventionally
That's the best way creativity works in VGC. You take this viable mon and use it on a unconventional way. You can go to Ray World winning reports and you'll see how all his teams have at least one example of this.

Raichu was certainly a viable mon in VGC and using it like that gave it an edge.

>I don't think he fully understands the situation either. In 2015, countermeasures to CHALK didn't work
Well, the thing is that CHALK was the countermeasure to the VGC15 American and European meta which was super match-up based bring 4 and have the other 2 to patch up holes. CHALK instead focused on super duper consistency all around. VGC15 was a prime example of the Japanese meta being more advanced than the one of the rest of the world while the rest of the world was copying what was popular in Japan in month ago.

>>30441580
That Torkoal+Oranguru combo seems overrated if you ask me. Did people find a better way?

>>30441802
You dont need rapid spin in vgc you dolt

VGC is much less diverse than Smogon OU and if you don't realize that you either don't play competitive Pokemon or you're retarded.
There are well over 60 very viable Pokemon in gen 6 OU, while that number is never above 20 in VGC. Every single year VGC is defined by a group of 5~ Pokemon who define everything.
GF should just give up on this Doubles gimmick once and for all.

>>30443423
Singles takes too long to play though.
They'd only ever move to 3v3 if anything

>>30443423
A singles tornament wouldn't be any better. It would likely be a 3v3 like Battle Spot where whoever picks the right 3 to use and lead with takes the round.
And 6v6 between any 2 non-hyper offensive teams takes forever on cartridge

>>30443319
Last season of the generation usually allows two high-tier legendaries.

>>30443600
And yet they still ban "mythical" pokes.
Including Phione

>>30443656
Maybe they try to be fair to people who missed the events?

>>30443686
The event pokemon are mostly so widely distributed these days, most have been on Internet Mystery Gift at some point.
And they dont stop people from using other pokemon with event exclusive moves that are even harder to come by

>>30443738
Ah, the days before flat rules where a distribution Pokémon could be exciting just for being at level 50 even though it evolves at a higher level than that.

>>30441547
Never seen an actual smogon tourney...

Dude shit gets crazy in their tours.

>>30441438
>2014
Variable meta
>2015
Thanks to genie faggotry everyone is the same
>2016
Thanks to creating retarded strong legendary pokemon that get mega evolution+ the meta is centralized as shit. It's still somehow less shit than genies.

Lesson learned: Genies = Meanies

>>30441584
Why would you use rocks in doubles?

>>30443927
Cybertron's Volcarona got utterly meme'd on by Sneaky Pebbles in a recentish vid

>>30443927
Because half the posters in the thread have no idea what they're talking about

>>30443927
I wish people ran it in doubles, because then GF would nerf it next gen

>>30444045
Give up a turn to diminish the bulk of stuff that will end up double targeted anyways in doubles.

SR is not a switch deterrent it's an offensive pressure tool, in VGC the pressure they put is just not good enough to warrant their use.

>Hydreigon
How? How they avoid being raped by fairies?

>>30441438
>2015 all Japs
>2016 all Americans and Europe

What happened?

>>30444184
Do you see the Mega Mawile next to it? Yes? That's how.

so seeing this

why do people hate smogon again?

>>30441579
Can't have two primals, so thank goodness for small blessings at least. One primal, one mega, rayquaza if the format allows it is bad enough.

>>30441438
nice, everyone's basically using the same shit
looks fun

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>>30444246
>singles

>>30441438
>that fucking Pachirisu

>>30444308
its obviously the more varied game

>>30444377
variety does not automatically make something interesting
scientific and objective proof: singles

>>30444246
in truth smogon knee jerk bans quite a bit. i think they're both as bad as each other

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>>30444360
Memes were born

>>30444246
Because Smogon loves their stall

>>30444425
there's very few bans over the years that I found to be badly researched though
its not like they don't try things, even if they turn out to be completely op and need to be rebanned

>>30444454
N-NANI!?!?

BAKANA!

>>30441688
Allowing the genies was a mistake, and the sword trio. I don't rightly know why they keep doing it.

>>30441438
>Raichu made the winning 2016 team
Im impressed

>>30441763
What about snarl, burn up + not looking like a retard?

>>30444547
Primal Kyogre games come down to who's Primal Kyoge can thunder who's first.
Lightningrod Raichu laughs at those games.

>>30442217
Ubers arent really the problem, primal groudon/kyogre is. Mega Mewtwo would have been if he hadn't been upstaged too, i think.

>everyone uses the same fucking pokemon

this is why I don't play competitively.

>>30442393
I don't know if I'd call it a gaping wound. Having better pokemon/characters isn't a flaw, necessarily.

Fox, no items, Final Destination is a meme because items add nothing to the competitive experience, Fox is the most rewarding to play at that level, and the 'fun' stages are absolute fucking cancer.

>>30444467
when will this meme die?
every single serious Smogon player absolutely despises full stall. that shit is only relevant on ladder play while being nonexistant in Smogon tournament play. in fact, whoever brings it to tournaments is looked down upon super hard.

>>30444772
The meme won't die ever because it's easier to say "Smogon loves their stall" rather than saying "Smogon wants every playstyle to be equally viable so they just so happen to ban all the incredibly hard hitting wallbreakers that shit on stall, a play style that is on life support in singles, due to Gamefreak adding more and more amazing wallbreakers and offensive threats"

>>30441438
I'm HIGHLY curious to know how VGC 2017 will go. Considering they already ruined half of the new mons by letting Aegislash in thanks a lot you idiots and with the UB's lurking around.

>>30444855
i'll be surprised if stall ends up being viable this gen. it has to resort to things such as Shedinja to work, ffs
it's doomed.
those wallbreakers (lando-i, hoopa, mmawile) are usually banned because of how hard they shit on balance/force balance to run weird stuff just to counter them and make slow teams unviable.
in the end, people just get mad because they can't run 6 frail offensive pokemon weak to stealth rocks without losing horribly.

>>30444886
Anon, Aegislash is banned in 2017.

>>30444560
>What about snarl
Well, you'd have to use TM95 to teach your Incineroar Snarl, but I'm sure you can manage that with a little effort.

>>30444886
>by letting Aegislash in
>2017
???

>>30444886
Honedge is from the island scan, and thus lives outside the regional dex, and thus is banned in this regional dex only format

>>30444924
>>30444939
Oh wait I forgot it's just Island Scan and not in the Alolan Dex. Kinda hard to remember that when I see it everywhere.

>>30444915
>i'll be surprised if stall ends up being viable this gen
That happens every gen and every gen it finds a way. Unless Smogon is like "ok fuck it, let's stop banning these guys" stall will always have a place in their meta.

I can assure you at some point gen7's meta will be Dugtrio Stall vs Xurkitree wars until Xurk gets banned.

>>30444986
xurkitree might be the second worst ultra beast in general. it's not getting banned. hell, i'll be surprised if it ends in OU. literal dead weight against any fast team.
stall breakers always existed. last gen mega heracross completly shat on stall without there being anything for stall to do about it, and it wasn't banned. in gen 5, CB terrakion destroyed rain stall, and it wasn't banned.
landorus, hoopa and friends were banned in gen 6 because they were indeed super broken, not because Smogon tries to protect stall or anything. if that was a thing. mega sableye would have never been banned.

>>30443991
Got a link?