VGC17 General /vgc17/

Remove Cancerturtle

Popular sets for Pheromosa?

Trying to think of a good last teammate. Currently using:

>Golisopod
>Magnezone
>Pelipper
>Xurkitree
>Tapu Bulu

I was trying Alolan Muk for a while, but it just didn't synergize with the rest of the class. I was thinking a Ground type, to work with Magnezone's Discharge. Maybe Mudsdale?

>>30359778
Have you tried lightning rod Marowak?

VGC General - My teambuilders when I'm too lazy to even come up with a basic 252/252 spread

I wish mods started to ban these people

>>30360005
Haven't tried it, my concern with it is that I already have 2 mom's with a Ground weakness. I've also faced a lot of them, but I've never seen one get a kill on anything that wasn't basically dead already. In my experience fighting them, they just don't seem good.

>>30360092
I'd say can't go wrong with Garchomp but you won't be able to quake properly with Magnezone at his side. Plus, no synergy at all with Bulu.

What does your team struggle with right now?

>>30360174
The two common Pokémon that are giving me the most trouble are Pheromosa and Drampa

Will Ribombee be any good in doubles? I'm considering using a team around it.

>>30360456
use it with oricorio

I've been running taunt on my A-Muk to get around Trick Room, but I've noticed an uptick of mental herbs. I decided to use roar on gyarados instead, but now muk has an open moveslot (running Gunk shot/knock off/protect now) what's the best 4th move?

>>30360338
How about something with Swift Swim? There's not much choices this year though. Which sets in specific are messing you up the hardest?

>>30360456
If you have to ask if something "will" be good in doubles then you already know the answer to that question.

>>30360491
>Use a shitmon with ANOTHER shitmon for a crappy gimmick
Quality advice there. You'll become the next Sejun. Guaranteed by the power of bro.

>>30360515
Shadow sneak is alright

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how do i kill the turtle?

>>30360590
wow, that's exactly what I'm testing now

>Tfw win ratio of 56% and still in borderline 1600

I fucking suck, maybe I should go back to the drawing board.

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>>30360614

>>30360515
how are you running your muk? i was thinking about trying him

+Def or +Sp.Def Umbreon?

>>30360703
I had tried black sludge w/ poison touch, but the random poison didn't ever really do much, although protect+sludge/terrain recovery is nice. I'm on a Set that uses figy berry+gluttony now to essentially give it 300+ hp bulk against anything that can't OHKO it. I know a lot of people are running poison jab over gunk shot, but I prefer the higher base power, and it rarely misses. I'm on a Sassy nature with full HP investment and a split between AtK and SpD. Its defense is mediocre, but that's mitigated by gyarados' intimidate and EQ getting nerfed by terrain.

>>30360848
See
>>30360052

>>30361004
see
>>30359132
>Discuss movesets, teams, viability, and predictions.

>Opponent's Lilligant used sleep powder
>It connects
>My mon sleeps for three turns
>It uses it again against the other mon
>Connects
>Three turns
>Repeat twice

Yes, I slept for like 6 turns if not more and the dude still didn't win because had its fucking fun switching, setupping and doing whatever the fuck he wanted. But no, if I try to do the same I'm lucky if I connect in the first place.

I don't know what shit I'm doing. Can someone help me out ? I feel like half of my team is useless

Tapu Koko @ Assault Vest
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 36 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch

Oranguru @ Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect

Torkoal @ Firium Z
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect

Xurkitree @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Celesteela @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Protect

Muk-Alola
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Minimize
- Protect

>>30361517
Next time use a pastebin, also any reasons for the specific EV spreads?
I think Koko is the frailest Tapu anyway so might as well make it a glass cannon.

>>30361099
You aren't discussing shit.

Discussion would be "Should I use this nature or this other Nature on my Umbreon? I'm undecided because this nature has these pros and these cons and this other nature has there pros and these cons. Which one do you lads think it's better?"

Even posting bait like "Celeestela is shit because this meta is full of electric types and Torkoal. Why is anyone using that lunarian whore?" is more conducive towards discussion than the drivel your posted because from those baits people will at least go "You are fucking retarded and here's why?".

In short, fucking kill yourself you useless waste of a post.

>>30361729
a) I'm not that anon

b) calm down, if something isn't discussion then nobody will reply, shitposting solves nothing

Why is parting shot banned on battlespot?

>>30362164
Bug that caused disconnections when Z-parting shot was used

>>30362164
apparently theres a glitch where z-parting shot and z-memento can cause disconnections, so they temporarily banned them while they figure out a fix.

>>30359778
>>30360576
use superior turtle, ss carracosta
+2 swift swim carracosta outspeeds +1 jolly pheromosa and speed creeps base 100s outside of rain
do it for memes and torkoal donks

also consider dropping magnezone for metagross if slutroach is a problem

what are some of the best counters to A-marowak? been using gastrodon but not sure if it's the BEST per se

>>30362213
oh wait shit im gay swift swim is its ha
dumb turtle

>>30362363
Literally anything with a ghost or dark attack. Muk beats all but max speed variants

>>30362213
>>30362406
Admittedly, I haven't done a ton of testing. In 15 games, only saw Pheromosa once. Hard to say if it's a legitimate problem yet. Loved the Carracosta idea, though. Damn unavailable HAs.

>>30360576
Specific strategy that messes me up pretty good is Trick Room Oranguru. Drampa gets Berserked, then instructed to Hyper Voice twice.

>>30363297
How about Scizor then?

Kills Phero with Bullet and hits Oranguru hard with Bug Bite or U-Turn or even Knock Off. Also, Feint. Love breaking protects with that.

As far I know Pheromosa can't do much to it besides HJK but I believe 252HP Scizor can take one of those. Also, Protect.

>>30363297
try araquanid or toxapex for wide guard. i rarely lose to torkoal/oranguru anymore because theyre' so predictable.
>turn 1 drop smeargle and oranguru sets up with araquanid+sweeper out
>turn 2 wide guard while sweeper chunks torkoal, they use instruct+eruption
>turn 3 protect sweeper while araquanid uses liquidation, torkoal uses flamethrower with instruct
>turn 4 swap sweeper for a fire resist and KO with liquidation

>Go test my new VGC team in rating battles
>Guy bring a team of Decidueye/Salandit/Toucannon/Inferoar/Snorlax/Ditto

i feel bad for the little lad

>>30363380
>>30363454
Scizor and Toxapex were both under consideration early on when I was building the team. I definitely wouldn't mind giving them a spin now that it's mostly built.

I didn't even know Araquanid got Wide Guard. I think I'm gonna pass on it for this team, with it sharing all the same weaknesses as a lot of my other mons and all, but I might make a backup team and give it a whirl.

Thanks for the help, anons!

>>30359590
>using pheromosa

how's 1100 these days?

>>30363784
It's pretty good, thanks for asking

Why is tailwind so short? so easy to protect stall out. I tried to design a team around it but it wears out too quickly.

>>30365241
Tailwind is not something you build around for but rather a move to give you an extra-kick if the situation calls for. Think of more like a set-up move rather than a Trick Room but for going fast.

i'm drunk btw

>>30365464
Yeah I am realizing that now. I was opening every game with talonflame and that's okay I guess, but sometimes talonflame is not good. It's really not pulling its weight.

My team is based around just attacking every turn and maintaining high momentum. Not hyper offense at all, but I would say "all-out offense."

>>30365971
>but sometimes talonflame is not good. It's really not pulling its weight.
Words I never expected to read. RIP Bravest Bird. You left us too soon.

>>30366015
for real. I used a dual bird team (talonflame + choice band staraptor) in XY OU meta that got me to 1,900 meta and was very good. Talonflame closed out most games by killing 3 pokemon. so as a big champion of talonflame, you can trust my opinion

now he just feels.. trash. i d k.

>>30361517
Koko's spread needs explanation. What calcs did you run where that's beneficial? What's your core? You just seem to trying to exploit the instruct gimmick with 5 interchangeable mons. If so you need actual synergy and counters. Oranguru dies and you're fucked.

>>30365971
>Not hyper offense at all, but I would say "all-out offense."
>"all-out offense."
Sounds like you're mincing words.
>>30366614
>I used a dual bird team (talonflame + choice band staraptor) in XY OU meta that got me to 1,900 meta and was very good.
Sounds like you just exploited broken birdspam.

>>30367095
>Sounds like you just exploited broken birdspam.
ofc, what's wrong with that

>>30367095
>Sounds like you're mincing words.
ofc, what's wrong with that

>>30366614
>>30367294
>>30367421
Holy shit write like a normal human being and not like a 13 years old on MySpace goddamn.

>>30367508
ofc, what's wrong with that

>>30361729
celesteela is shit because salazzle can toxic it

>>30367653
At least reply with a different bait than the one used as example anon. Laziness is bad.

>>30367508
mom's gonna FREAK!

>>30367704
i didnt use the one you used i said its bad because salazzle

>>30367800
salazzle is bad because celesteela can learn earthquake.

>>30367860
salazzle out speeds and then your celesteela sits there while the enemies dies from toxic

>>30367960
toxic is stupid because berries exist and your salazzle gets nuked because of its pitiful defenses and celesteela gives zero fucks.

>>30367993
it was a hologram

>>30368001
your dick is a hologram

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How do I look guys?

>>30368233
Post natures, ev spread, nature, moves and held items or poorly is all I can say.

>>30368233
>triple ground weakness

>>30368370
Apparently Bulu's ability is supposed to carry the team.

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What do you guys do to counter setup openings? Taunt and fake out don't seem to work because these teams are well-prepared for those moves

>>30368494
Roar on Koko or Gyarados can remove setup openers.

does anybody know why parting shot and memento are banned?

>>30368370
>not using magnet rise

>>30368551
What?

>>30368551
They're bugged and can cause disconnections.

>>30368551
Gamefreak is incompetent.

>guy leads with Eevee for Extreme Evoboost

wew lads

What does a balanced team look like? Is a weather condition necessary to be successful in this meta? Without rain, I don't see how you could stop torkoal.

>>30368551
this ban pisses me off because fur coat garfielf is a legit good lead

>>30368667
Good thing you led with CM tapu fini and boosted twice. Makes it a pretty easy game.

>>30368667
>>30339760
>I think 3 of the top 5 teams at this point are using the eevee + smeargle lead into baton pass arcanine into psych up tapu lele.

How? Why? I don't see how anybody could lose to it because of how easy it is to see coming.

>>30368710
>>30368788

>misspredicted twice

haha oh wow!

>>30368788
Tell me in exact terms how you would beat it. I will tell you why you are stupid.

It is a very well-built team and it takes a specially crafted counter to have a 50% chance of stopping it at its intended goal.

>>30368788
It would take too long. You're too focused on boosting. If you face ho leads, it won't work because one of your links to lele is broken. If it's ho multi-target and you didn't wide guard you could be doa. The meta is too new to say for certain what's coming.

>>30368871
Man, I don't know, I just know I've never had trouble with it. I've been using a bulu/metagross team with all sorts of different pokemon, so I can't even remember what I used to beat it with.

Worlds Finals will have Celesteela and Arcanine on both sides. Screencap this.

http://pastebin.com/K4yKBUzU

How can I improve my team? I feel like a big problem right now is my own inexperience and my shitty reads, but other than that there are still some situations I have trouble winning, like when the other team gets to set up.

>have 50% win/lose ratio
>can't even break 1550

reee

pls help, i dont know much about battling so i just made up a trick room team with the 2 members someone else posted yesterday

Oranguru @Mental Herb
Relaxed nature
252hp/def
-trick room
-instruct
-protect
-psychic

Torkoal @Focus Sash (because i've been going against more special side teams)
Quiet
252hp/spatt
-Eruption
-Heat Wave
-Protect
-Sludge Bomb

Drampa @Sitrus Berry
Quiet
252HP/Spatt
-Hyper Voice
-Snarl
-T-bolt
-Protect

Celesteela @Lefties
Adamant
252hp/att
-Leech Seed
-Heavy Slam
Rock Slide
Earthquake

Kartana @Life Orb
Jolly
252att/speed
Leaf Blade
Sacred Sword
Smart Strike
Night Slash

Tapu Lele @Expert Belt
Timid
252SpATt/Speed
Psyshock
Moonblast
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball

What are the premier BOOSTERS of vgc17? I guess DDmence is shit right now. What's actually good? I like to have one booster on my team in case of emergencies involving gay cheese on the enemy team.

>>30369176
>have 50% win/lose ratio
>can't even break 1550
How the fuck can someone even be this bad

>>30369204
DD Gyarados and Eeveestrat

>>30369204
Boosting is a weak strategy to use though. At most one turn to boost. Mimikyu gets a free turn to boost, so there's that.

>>30369280

because im shit and never played competitive outside of triple battle weather wars in gen 5

>>30369123
Please help I constantly get ignored

>>30359132
I have a question about VGC. If a Pokemon has legal moves, stats, etc. but was injected in can I use it? Also if the parent was injected in and bred with legit Pokemon, do the offspring count as hacked too?

>>30369383
>togedemaru
>2 4x electric weaknesses
Don't even give the lightningrod excuse, crawl back into your cave and think hard about why no one wants to help your stupid fucking ass

>>30369456
It'll be fine as long as you're not retarded about the generation.

>>30369320
I don't know how else to stop BOOSTAN strats of the enemy besides BOOSTAN myself.

Eevee + smeargle is a nearly guaranteed baton pass with extreme evoboost on it. You can't fake out because of double protect, you can't taunt because z-moves go through taunt and also follow me on smearagle. you can't use spread damage attacks to kill both because smeargle wide guard. At best you can open with 2 pokemon that have strong single target moves and strong spread moves at the same time, and then play a guessing game about whether the enemy smeargle uses wide guard or follow me. If you guess right you win, if you guess wrong you guaranteed lose.

Seems better to just BOOST yourself in smeargle's face because he doesn't have enough moveslots to run taunt or encore.

>>30369456
Q1: yes, but only if it's hacked properly
Q2: of course not, use your common sense the game generated the data

>>30369456
Official rules say no, but question is more like, can they detect it. Probably not a good idea to play on a console that's been homebrewed.

>>30369507
>what is snarl arcanine
>what is haze

>>30369547
Wrong, anon, you clearly haven't been to a single event in your pathetic shut-in life. Tons of people use homebrewed DSes even in TPCi-sanctioned events like Regionals and Nationals.

>>30369606
Seen it happen in Melbourne 2014. Some idiot accidentally booted in homebrew mode when one of the even staff were watching.

>>30369725
There was a tweet someone posted of them injecting at a regional. Literally no one cares

>>30369507
Wouldn't taunt still prevent the baton pass next turn? And smeargle can't follow me and wide guard at the same time. Also, trick room.

>>30369964
You can't taunt eevee. Smeargle has follow me.

It doesn't matter that smeargle can't use wide guard and follow me at the same time. He doesn't need to. There is no spread move that can kill eevee by itself in one turn outside of explosion, and that is extremely fucking obvious and smeargle will just fake out onto you.

Like I said, you have to specifically design your fucking team to have a 50% chance of preventing this opening from doing its job. It's not worth it to design your fucking team that way.

>>30369916
Do whatever the fuck you want, just don't do it openly in front of staff or they will care.

>>30370035
Is it not worth it to carry Haze?

>>30369176

h-help

>>30370120
you can but it's worthless in 80% of situations

>>30370035
All I'm saying is that smeargle can't cover all the options at the same time. And again, trick room exists, so you can either outspeed the eevee next turn and taunt it then, or outspeed whatever it passes to.

>>30370210
Yeah exactly. But it can cover all the options. So if you SPECIFICALLY DESIGN YOUR TEAM TO STOP THE OPENING you have a fucking 50% chance of winning the game and a 50% chance of fucking guaranteed losing. It all depends on what the smeargle player decides to do. If he wide guards and you chose 2 spread moves, you fucking lose. If he follows me instead and you chose 1 spread move and 1 single target move, then you fucking lose, guaranteed with no recourse available.

Again, why is it worth it to design your entire fucking team to have a 50% chance at this shit? Is it really fucking worth it to you? why don't you just assume that the enemy gets his gay opening and deal with the consequences after? That is much easier and doesn't require you to specifically alter team design to deal with it.

>>30360945
why no sitrus berry

Butt Soup (Muk-Alola) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Power of Alchemy
EVs: 152 HP / 4 Atk / 100 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Minimize
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Poison Gas

Fat Cat (Persian-Alola) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Protect

Heal whore (Tapu Bulu) @ Big Root
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Horn Leech
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Rock Slide

New ferrothorn (Toxapex) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes

Jojo reference (Starmie) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spotlight
- Thunderbolt
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Gay waifubait (Salazzle) @ Life Orb
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

>>30370359
Please use pastebin when posting teams

>>30369462
??? What, should I run A-Marowak instead?

>>30370359
wouldn't toxapex be shit for doubles?

>>30370276
I wouldn't call having trick room or taunt, or even both, designing your team to stop it. But sure, I hear you.

So anyway, what do you suggest, or what have you used to fight a team like that after they set up?

>Ask for help making a team
>"Don't ask for spoonfeeding, make your own team"
>Try and make my own team and ask for advice
>"Shut the fuck up, no one wants to help you because you're stupid and bad at pokemon"

????????

>>30370469
I think Baneful Bunker might even be decent in doubles, as long as you aren't tripping over your own statuses. Pokemon probably won't be alive long enough for toxic to outdamage poison, protect is in general much more useful, and it might make people less willing to attack you.

Trick room is more common, as well. I'm not sure how good regenerator is going to be, though.

>>30370486
just boost twice with fucking gyarados and then z-move on the baton pass. Woah so hard.

>>30370518
At least give some input on your own team. Like what you like or don't like about the team, or what pokemon you have a hard time against.

>>30370686
I like that Togedemaru is a good partner with Gyarados and is a fake out lightning rod pokemon.

Pelipper feels so fucking useless at times, muk too to a lesser extent.

I lose to stuff like Torkoal and Oranguru

>>30370776
>has pelipper
>I lose to stuff like Torkoal and Oranguru
LMAOOOOO just give up kid you're literally retarded

>>30370776
I agree with the other guy. Pelipper should be an easy way to beat torkoal. Probably lead muk to do some damage to oranguru, then switch pelipper in once torkoal is out. More practice I guess.

Marowak could also be an option over muk, and then get some other fake out-er than togedemaru.

What spreads are people running on Arcanine? I need a good roar/whirlwind user to deal with trick room and boost spam.

I've been running Snarl, Roar, Burn Up, and Protect. Open to new sets too.

Anyone using Comfey? There has to be a way to use that +3 Draining Kiss and +3 Floral Healing.

>>30371190
Maybe bulky with helping hand or synthesist? Arcanine is better as a defensive support mon in VGC (especially since he has no weakness after Burn Up).

>>30371429
*morning sun

>>30371429
The team i'm building right now has Comfey in it. I'd say he has a place in teams that value Bulk over Raw power. I'll share mine (I know i'm retarded for going bold nature on this special attack meta, but Comfey's SpD is naturally higher than its Def).

Comfey @ Mental Herb
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def
Triage
-Taunt
-Protect
-Floral Healing
-Draining Kiss

I know it's not the best set, but at least it could be a starting point. Someting tells me i should really swap something there for Helping Hand or Synthesis tho, little guy can be surprisingly bulky himself.

>>30370864
I mean I'm also new to playing doubles. But no, I should automatically know how to play right? Because it's really easy for everyone, right?

>>30371840
Don't feed the trolls bro.

If you are against Torkoal and have Pelipper yourself then what you have to do is wait for your opponent to think his setup is complete, then you switch to pelipper and laugh at his eruptions (unless it's the choice specs variant, then it will still kinda hurt).

>>30370982
I could try Weavile and Marowak, but then I lose my poison coverage to deal with fairy types. Not to mention Marowak isn't good under rain, I'm assuming so anyways.

>>30371891
Hi, Nugget Bridge!

>>30371774
>Comfey's SpD is naturally higher than its Def
All the more you should be running +SpDef nature you retard, natures are multiplicative so you're wasting precious stat points. Do +SpDef, 252 HP/252Def/4SpDef

>>30371904
Well, marowak can still deal with the tapus except fini. But yeah, I don't like pelipper/marowak either, or really any fire type with pelipper.

>>30371968
That's why i said it was retarded, retard.

>>30371996
I guess I could just make an elec terrain team instead. Switch Bulu for koko, xurk for celesteela, muk for garchomp and then either keep toge or risk using Marowak instead

Is Nihilego, Tapu Fini, and Porygon 2 a good core?

So will all these strategies turn to shit when the Genies and company return to the format?

>>30372127
Prankster is fucking dead.

>>30370177
>>30370276

clear smog

>>30372127
I'm hoping next year will the the same as this year, but with megas.

Could someone give me advice on my team? I want to get into competitive but I really don't know what I'm doing

>>30372360
forgot to post my team
http://pastebin.com/ifnqyjxR

>>30369725
>Some idiot accidentally booted in homebrew mode when one of the even staff were watching.
What happened to him?

>>30372389
>2 mons running thunderbolt and volt switch
do you hate pelipper that much?

How good is Milotic currently? Was thinking on running a tanky leftover variant, maybe dropping recover or protect for light screen support.

Does Marowak have a spot on a rain team? Are there any other lightning rod users worth using or should I not bother?

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>>30372410
He was executed on the spot.

Has no one else really though of evoboosting latias with stored power? It's a fucking monster and it's only going to get better once it gets the mega back

>>30372686
>Latias
>VGC
really makes you think

>>30369176
Use pastebin please, but, you're using stardard builds and one of the most popular teams right now, so someone with half brain can counter it.

>>30369123
Don't use gyro ball with spd, and change xukitree, maybe someone to cover your weakness.

>>30369456
>>30369547
>>30369606
If you don't have the SD you're ok.

>>30370359
Salazzle is not that great desu, I try her, and don't carry is weight, Toxapex is to defensive to VGC, and you don't want to run toxic spikes, and I don't see the use of you starmie, is to frail to run spotlight

>>30372125
Is not easy to tell, all depends, how common are your counters and that, but yeah, Nihilego+Fini works very good together.

>>30372389
Run protect, you want to stall turn against TR, also your team is too frail, and 2 UB aren't that great

>>30372493
Is decent, not great but ok, competitive is a great ability, but right now, there is a lot of thing countering milotic (Bulu, koko, the UBs), you want to run it very tanky

>>30372527
Yes, have a spot, Togedemaru is another LR user that can be useful.

I really want, so next time, post the porpouse of the pokemon in the team, maybe my advices are shit, 'cuz I don't know what is doing that pokemon for the team, and if you can post replay, is easy to tell what is wrong

What nature should I run on Muk? I'm going for a specially defensive spread so I don't know if a nature that boosts attack gives any significant KOs.

>>30374931
why dont you calc what it can possibly kill then you goose.

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>>30359778
Rain and grass, a plower, a set of cables and a magnet

Are you making a farm?

Add Mudsdale or Miltank

>YFW It'll be viable on your team

Any image chart showing all the allowed mons?
By reading a text list I think I'm missing some mons there and there.

Man I wish Incineroar would get its HA, fake out + intimidate and okay bulk isn't something to laugh at.

>>30375301
Neither is Blaze if you do it right either though.
:^) Though it's more of a singles-thing

Sub-Liechi/Salac+Swords dance
Mad kat

+2 Stab + Blaze boosted moves hurt a lot.

(Also the only way to use typhlosion)

>>30376053
>Use Flare Blitz once
>Die instantly

Th-thanks

Were changes made to gluttony and confusion berries this gen, or is there just a whole lot of misinformation going around?

People keep suggesting to run Figy berry on gluttony Pokémon in vgc 2017, but all official resources say Figy is not only unaffected by gluttony but that it only heals 1/8th of your total hp vs the 1/4th that Sitrus heals

>>30377283
>Were changes made to gluttony and confusion berries this gen, or is there just a whole lot of misinformation going around?
Yes, they were changed. I've tried it.

>>30377302
That's good then. I'll have to see what berry I can use on my spdef Muk.

>>30371774
>>30371968
>>30372042
Wouldn't 252Def/252Sp.Def be better if I want to go with Draining Kiss + Leech Seed?

After You might be a good option too with its 100 base speed.

>>30377325
If you have a Bulu I'd still go for black sludge because you heal a lot every turn.
Also this gen I feel they should have nerfed leech seed seriously.

>>30377495
I run Fini, so poison touch is useless and I don't really care enough to try power of alchemy gimmicks. Black sludge is nice but doubles is so fast paced I feel like a 50% heal will give me more milage than some small recovery every turn. Especially since it tends to get double targeted a lot.

Oranguru's true secret partner is Porygon-z, with either Ninetales or Tapu Koko as partners. Shit is ridiculous, try it even just for fun. Scarf Oranguru is an option as well.

>>30377886
Mind elaborating?
Also I'm surprised at how many people run Ninetales but never setup the screens

>>30377886
You cannot Instruct Z-moves

>>30378774
Blizzard hits surprisingly hard even coming off of only 81 special attack.

I kind of want to try a specs set. Everything that doesn't resist is either a 2hko or very close to one.

>>30377886
you have no idea what you are talking about

>>30378774
I love setting up Aurora Veil with Ninetales, it even lets it survive SE hits with its non-invested shitty bulk. I always prioritize putting them up when it's on the field, unless there is something begging to be killed by a Blizzard, and even then, they're probably too scared to stay in so free screens. Celesteela and Bulu are already juggernauts but under screens they're monsters, had a guy forfeit to my Celesteela once Veil and Leech Seed were up.

>Tfw I keep understimating Sandlash and Vanilluxe and every single time I get swept

>>30379825
How do you run it? 252spa 252spe or 252hp 252spe? Timid?

>>30379856
That's pretty embarrassing. How can you even lose to that? I could maybe understand Sandslash + Ninetales but not Vanilluxe.

>>30379825
Do you run light clay?

>>30379956
Scarfed Vanilluxe hits like a train and even has freeze dry

>>30379971
doubles battles don't last that long my man

Can someone post a trickroom oranguru/torkoal team ?

>>30380189
It's the most braindead archetype right now, a la good old press Outrage to win Garchomp, at least build it yourself.

>>30380189
Don't bother. It is a lazy team design and it is disappearing from the top of the ladder now. People are learning how to deal with it. Garchomp only has to tank 2 eruptions and then hit back with earthquake and then the strat is done. People who never played vgc2016 (admittedly a lot of people) never dealt with eruption groudon so I don't think most people realized the base power of eruption goes down to fucking 15 if you get torkoal low. After he gets low, he's done and you fucking lose mate.

More creative and better-built teams are replacing the trick room garbage at the top now.

>>30380443
>More creative and better-built teams are replacing the trick room garbage at the top now.
Like?

>>30379916
>>30379971
252 Spa, 252 Spd, 4 Hp. Timid, Focus Sash. Blizzard, Aurora Veil, Freeze Dry, Protect.

>>30380548
Torkoal with heatwave :^)

Can you get Drizzle Politoed yet?

>>30380839
>using that busted stupid frog instead of based pelican

>>30381060
I wanna use Double Poli for aesthetics.

>>30380839
>>30381060
Like anon said. Politoed is old and busted, hail to the pelican.

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>all these trick room teams
>nobody mentions Wishiwashi

I'm not a competitivefag, but what exactly prevents Wishiwashi from being used here?
>incredible mixed offensive stats
>great TR speed
>very bulky despite low HP
>gets U-Turn and Earthquake
>benefits greatly from a rain setter, but I have no idea how common Pelipper is in this format
>could run a defensive set with Aqua Ring, Leftovers and Toxic
>if it's not in its schooling form, it gets Helping Hand to help a teammate before its picked off

>>30381659
Bulu is delete button. Also electric is a really common type this season

>>30381810
If it's Bulu we're talking about
>252+ SpA Life Orb Wishiwashi Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 221-263 (64.2 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It has a 60% chance of OHKOing if it wasn't specially invested.
Banded Bulu could OHKO but idk if that's a thing. I hear the defensive set is the main one being used.

As for electric types, I'm assuming Koko is the most prevalent
>0 Atk Life Orb Wishiwashi Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 286-338 (101.7 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Tapu Koko doesn't even OHKO back if it's using Thunder with maxed out special offenses.

>>30382187
>Stealth Rock
Nani? This is VGC
Also Band Bulu is the only one I ever see. 252atk 252 HP

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>>30382272
Stealth Rock isn't a thing in VGC?

Well at least Koko can't really shit on Wishiwashi without dying.

>>30382319
>Stealth Rock isn't a thing in VGC?
VGC is doubles anon, hazards are completely non existent.

>>30382187
It doesn't need to OHKO, it only need to bring you down to red before you're useless. Your HP pool is already fucking garbage and its effectively 2/3 of even that because of his shitmon ability

Has anyone come across any speed invested Tapu Bulu's (Jolly Nature)? Those things can OHKO Gyarados even at-1

>>30382821
It can only OHKO at +0. At -1 it only gets 85%.

>>30382821
I would never use Jolly Bulu without Helping Hand support. Best way to use him would be with a Scarf since he becomes fast enough to outspeed Koko and Aerodactyl, but it loses too much power with neither Adamant nor a boosting item. AND, you lose the advantage of being the slowest Terrain setter of the game, so you really need that extra power.
Proper speed control is much more efficient in the long run if you don't abuse Helping Hand.

>>30382187
>doesn't ko back
Remember, this is wishiwashi. You only need to do half and it's basically a KO

>>30383809
New poster here and new to doubles myself. This speed control that's talked about, is that tailwind and trick room? There's nothing more to it than that?

>>30384057
no, 2/3

>>30384225
No. It's also having a weather or terrain setter slower than the others to make sure yours is the one that goes off.

>>30380624
How often do you rely on focus sash?
What I had in mind would be better if it carried something else, but it's true Ninetales is very frail.

>>30384225
It's a more general term, tailwind and trick room are a part of it. Basically you want to avoid having speed problems in every possible situation, for example while playing against a trick room team while most of your team isn't suited against it, or while going for weather and terrain wars.

>>30384225
It's also paralyze, icy wind, and more.

"Speed control" = controlling the speed, making your pokemon go before the enemy pokemon.

On that note, what are the icy wind users of vgc17? I don't think milotic can learn it without a tutor.

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newfag here

how do I into competitive and into team building? someone please guide my path by showing/shedding me the/some light on it/this, please

I may be a total complete pleb and newbie/newfag to this and competitive but I want to get into it. I played bw, little bit of x and xy and a little of or, never played as much as or anyway and never got into team building and competitive

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>>30384820
Start by watching this. Welcome to VGC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2GbFV1qKnE

>>30384820
Pick a mon you find strong/like/have an idea how it may work (if you pick just your bro don't get mad if you lose often).
Build a team around it.

Go play, get wrecked.
Build a new team considering what wrecked you.

Play again.
Repeat.

Here's my (planned) team so far

1. Alolan ninetales

Ability- snow warning
Item- icy rock
Moves:
-aurora veil
-calm mind
-blizzard
-extrasensory

2. Toxapex

Ability- regenerator
Item- ______
Moves:
-baneful bunker
-toxic spikes
-regenerate
-toxic/poison jab (not sure which to use, toxic will allow me to poison almost anything, but poison jab allows some damage)

3. Chansey

Ability- natural cure
Item- eviolite
Moves:
-wish
-hard boiled
-thunder wave
-_________ (some sort of damaging move)

4. Alolan Raichu

Ability- surge surfer
Item- _______
Moves:
-electric terrain
-agility
-electro ball
-__________

5 and 6. ????? (Not sure what to put, I was thinking klefki, aegislash, and/or garchomp if only I could find a fucking rough skin gabite.)

Any suggestions for the blanks? Not too sure what to put. Is my team comp okay? I am aware that my team so far lacks a physical attacker and needs some more type coverage. I would have chandelure and aggron for the last two, but I can't transfer them over to sun yet.

I want to make a team based on shutting down the enemy, but I don't know if this is a good enough strategy to win games.

I imagined using sleep, fake out, intimidate, snarl, taunt, clear smog, reflect, and light screen. I'm basically trying to neuter my enemy's strategy so they can't do any damage to me. Is this a pretty good strategy to start building a team on?

>>30385310
(This is my first try at a comp team)

>>30385362
chansey and toxapex are too passive for doubles

>>30385310
best hope for rough skin garchomp is to trade for level1 gabites from autistic japs on GTS. with luck, you'll get one of their rough skin breeding rejects.

Also that looks like a singles team. VGC is exclusively doubles.

>>30385310
This would really just be a mediocre team in singles, and the doubles meta that VGC's based in won't let any of your shit through.

Ninetales doesn't have the bulk or damage to bull off a setup sweeper, and you don't want to extend hail to begin with; you want light clay for veil turns. Hazards are retarded, your Chansey set won't do shit, Alolan Raichu without a Koko already setting up terrain is pretty much dead weight (and still not really that great with it)

If you hate Torkoal so much go to 4:57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBt7IKu3rpw

>>30385310
>A-ninetales
don't use icy rock, games are too fast paced to waste an item on that
give it sash or something
>toxapex
do not use toxic spikes
I wouldn't use toxic either
this pokemon seems too defensive to me to actually work well because it doesn't have great doubles support moves
>chansey
do not use this ever
>A-raichu
your entire set is shit
don't use any of these moves, electro ball isn't good and wasting 2 slots to set it up is awful
raichu is already fast enough, just use tbolt and you should pretty much never run the actual move electric terrain
>overall
Your team has absolutely no synergy outside of the fact that you have 2 singles stall pokemon, it has nothing that can hit very hard, and your team doesn't have protect at all
Are you sure this team was meant for vgc? It'll still be bad in singles, but VGC is the official doubles format (idk if you already know this, your team makes me think you're new to comp)
I'd honestly scrap the whole thing and start again, it's very bad

>>30385357
Crits exist, so you can't rely on a -6 enemy doing no damage. The best way to utilize things like that imo, is to make sure your pokemon survive something that would otherwise OHKO them, and then you can retaliate.

>>30385619
OK Good point. I guess it is not a viable team strategy because I will always be praying for no crits.

The team strategy came from my obsession with finding the perfect lead. I have been trying to find out a 2-pokemon lead that shuts down or has an answer to 90% of enemy openings. I guess I could just keep working on that and do something else with the rest of my team.

>>30385515
why the hell does he have to start every video with "IM THE WORLD CHAMPION"

also yea use araquanid that thing owns

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>>30359132
Any passive boosters or easy-boosters this year? What I mean is: something like balanced chicken of speed boosting or drampa's berserk (except not on a shitmon). Basically looking for something that can boost without paying a big cost.

>>30385755
All the Ultra Beasts have Beast Boost.

>>30385731
You have to self-promote to be relevant anywhere dude. That's life. Do you go to job interviews and fail to mention any good qualities about yourself? He's mentioning that he is the world champion because it gives his opinion clout, and he has to say it in every video because a newcomer might be recommended 1 of his videos and he only has that 1 video to reel that viewer in and convince him to watch more. It's annoying but that's just the way life works.

>>30385845
Aha! Yes, how could I overlook that. Thank you sir.

>>30385721
Arcanine seems good. Can intimidate, snarl, roar, maybe WoW. Roar alone shuts down most setup or TR strategies.

>>30385731
Because otherwise he could get compared to retards like Versifily

>Toxapex is too defensive
motherfucker just crit'd the shit out of me.

How's Golisopod? How do you use it?

>>30385562
>>30385444
>>30385437
Wasn't aware that it was doubles exclusively was planning on single battles, don't really know what I'm doing. Is there anything on my team that I can/should keep? What are some good Pokemon that I can get in alola? I hear that aegislash, garchomp and klefki are pretty good.

>>30386057
>Losing to meme sets
Do you also get walled by Slack Off Infernape or something?

>>30386235
I think you should just leave for an appropriate thread.

>>30386235
Garchomp is good. Klefki can be alright. Aegislash is banned in doubles this year and is also banned in Smogon singles.

Do you know about smogon.com?

>>30386120
>How's Golisopod?
not good
>How do you use it?
you lose a lot of games

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Cybertront hinks Silvally is a good pokemon to base a team around. What would it be used for?

I fucking HATE Tapu Lele.
>decent bulk
>130 SpA
>95 speed
>only weak to 3 types, none are 4x
>FUCKING PSYCHIC TERRAIN DISABLING ANYTHING PRIORITY EVEN AFTER IT'S DEAD
>ON TOP OF POSSIBLE WEATHER

>>30386874
Team glue.

>>30386970
So snarl, parting shot, and coverage moves that your team needs? Is that what you mean?

>>30386874
I've used ground silvally for a single target ground move. Multi attack, iron head, SD, protect. Never really worked out well.

Torkoal counter? Go araquanid
Celesteela counter? Go magnet pull
Tapu koko counter? Go lightning rod

>>30386120
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziJCmN9qRxg

>>30370296
because figy is better

Is Froslass a meme or is actually good?

>>30384536
Ninetales gets icy wind.

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>Hyper Trainer HP is shown as normal despite being Ice
>Everytime I'm on the battle screen I panick thinking it's normal

Dedicated trickroom autist since X/Y, and I'm having a little trouble this generation.
I need something to use fakeout, and since firecat doesn't have intimidate yet, I'm pretty much left with Sableye, Hariyama, and maybe Togedemaru/Persian if I'm desperate enough to run a half-trickroom team. Any help, /vp/?

>>30389801
why don't you put it on the smeargle you are already running

Are moves that heal allies viable? I know Porygon2 often uses recover to heal itself, so I assume that moves like heal pulse can be good if used correctly. Am I right?

>>30386367
Everyone has to start somewhere. Maybe just ignore my posts? Pretty easy to do if you have a brain.

>>30389900
At one point I was toying around with Tapu Bulu / Comfey
It's a usable combo, since grassy terrain + priority 100% heal is nothing to scoff at. The 100 speed makes it a bit unusable for what I'm going for
>>30389868
Actually, I never used Smeargle since the lack of balk scared me off. What does it run? poison/spikey shield, fake out, spore, etc?

>>30386649
Yeah I've gone to it a few times to check out different builds. I imagine they have their own set of rules? I mostly just want to PvP with random people.

>>30389959
>Everyone has to start somewhere.
And there better places to start than here considering this is a thread for a doubles format and your intent is to ask about a team for singles.

>Pretty easy to do if you have a brain.
Says the one entering a thread about doubles to ask about singles. Do you also go to Italian restaurants and complain about how the food is not Mexican food?

Please neck yourself.

>>30390013
the lack of "balk" is compensated for by the focus sash.

it runs what you need it to run, but for your purposes, you could run [protect, fake out, follow me, endeavour/spore]

>>30390018
smogon is just a 3rd party community that is not associated with nintendo in any way, but it is the most popular place to go for singles battling. this is because they have a democratic testing & banning system to determine the rules for each tier. otherwise, you can play the official nintendo format which is what we do here.

araquanid @ wacan berry or assault vest, what do you all think?

>>30390242
I'm going to test assault right now paired with the fat pachirisu wannabe in case there are too many electric types

>>30369350
Don't worry about it too much. Was absolutely shit at VGC in 2012 / 13. Didn't start seeing an improvement until '14

>>30377302
What gluttony changes

>>30390281
okay, please report back!

>>30390366
Berries that heal and cause confusion if your nature is wrong were buffed to heal 50% HP. Gluttony now makes them activate at 50%

>>30390242
It has already monstrous special defense.. I didn't think anything would kill it via its special defense. Therefore I don't see the purpose in assault vest. But you can run the calcs. Maybe it really does help.

I think araquanid has too many support moves to use assault vest. His only good attacking move is his water STAB because it's the only attack that his ability works on. Just having liquidation is good, and then you can fill 1 slot with protect and the remaining to slots with great support moves: Soak, Spider Web, Mirror coat, Entrainment, Scald, Safeguard, Swagger, Mirror coat, rain dance, lunge, wide guard.

Imagine holding a wacan berry and mirror coating a discharge or thunderbolt back to the xurkitree/tapu koko, killing them instantly. this pokemon has many interesting possibilities. he is at that perfect level of special bulk to be taking advantage of mirror coat, which is an underrated move. It not only hurts or kills your opponent when you surprise them with it, but it also prevents your opponent from using special moves after that out of fear

>>30390545
>Imagine holding a wacan berry and mirror coating

Or you could just liquidate and get the KO anyway because calcs let it

>>30390281
If you are worried about electric types. Uses Marowak with lightning rod

Why is HP Fighting illegal on legendaries?
5.2. Case 2 – Severe Tier 2
o Any Legendary or Mythical Pokémon (with the black clover) that has Hidden Power as a
Fighting-type move
from the official ruleset hack check page

>>30390649
Lightning rod doesn't stop spread moves. Everyone knows about lightning rod and will use discharge if there is a Marowak or Togedemaru on the field

>>30390545
i really like the wacan mirror coat possibly,

i was thinking

liquidation
lunge
mirror coat
protect

liquidation
lunge
posion jab
protect

>>30390697
What IV do you need for it? If it's an HP that requires less than 3 31 IVs that would explain it.

>>30390697
HP Fighting requires having 4 imperfect IVs, which is impossible for legendaries because they're guaranteed to have at least 3 perfect IVs when caught in the wild.

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>tfw broke 1400 on showdown with a xurkitree team
w-we can make it lads

>>30390697
Because it requires all even IVs, but legendaries are guaranteed to have 3 31s.

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I need help building a doubles TR team to use online. I just brought over my Dittos for HPs and IVs and im at a impass currently. I know what I want to do with each of the pokemon, but I just don't know the last two to put on my team. I'm sure I need one more TR setter and someone physical. The catch though, is that as it's my first team in a new gen, I only want to use Pokemon introduced in this gen and I want to keep the two starters on it.

This would be my first team in S&M so im not aware of the metamons everyone and their grandmother uses online, so I've just been taking shots in the dark and guessing beasts, legendaries and tapumons. Team is pic related.

>>30390726
Run wide guard over mirror coat. What relevant special attacker can you even Ko with mirror coat that you can't with liquidation?

>>30390623
Mirror coat lets you hit 2 things at once, but also you can't kill tapu koko in 1 turn with liquidation friend. You can get close but no cigar.

>>30390756
>>30390767
>>30390775
ah forgot gen6 added that part

>>30390773
scarf xurk?

>>30390778
Your entire team except Oranguru is going to get out slowed by other trick room teams online. Also you have no form of redirection so your TR setter is just going to get double targeted or roared out turn 1

Bulky Adamant Tsareena with Synthesis?

Or fast Jolly Tsareena with U-Turn?

>>30390926
electrium-z xurk

>>30390928
So a follow me, Rage Powder or taunt user?

What's the average TR team look like in S&M?

>>30390956
you must be supporting it with bulu

>>30390892
>You can get close but no cigar.
Add a Mystic Water and it's a guaranteed OHKO.

>>30390965
The standard opening is Mimikyu/Oranguru + Smeargle. Smeargle uses follow me if your opponent doesn't have a roar/Whirlwind user, otherwise you taunt because roar always goes before trick room.

Smeargle runs focus sash, tr setter runs mental herb. Lower on the ladder you can get by without such a dedicated opening

>>30391097
Would I be better off not going for TR with the idea that I want to use both Primarina and Decidueye? Because their lack of being slow seems like quite the hindrance.

>>30390013
>priority 100% heal is nothing to scoff at
100% heal? How does it heal 100%?

>>30391272
Owl is decent but Primarina is bad. If you must run Owl run enough speed to creep adamant max speed Marowak because that shit is everywhere.

>>30391376
Grassy terrain + comfey's unique healing move is boosted from 50% -> 100%
Comfey also has triage //priority healing

>>30391462
It's only 2/3 in grass

>>30390956
post team, or at least explain how to successfully run Xurk without Scard/Sash

Trying to catch som Tapus for my team and I was wondering. Does Abra sycnro work on them when determining nature? Already caught one 3 times with the wrong nature.

>>30391580
yes, but its only 50% chance

>>30391382
Thanks for the heads up. I really want to use both because they are my favorite pokemon in this gen and even though Primarina is shit, I still feel obligated to at least give her a shot. Chances are, this is going to be the only doubles team I'd use her on.

>>30391611
Okay, thanks!

>>30391567
tailwind and lots of playing around a-marowak (i have 3 other mons that hit it for SE damage), and also surprise KOs with grassy terrain-boosted grass knot. Modest, max SpAtk, enough speed to be uber-fast under tailwind and the rest dumped in HP.

>>30391685
How the fuck are you getting tailwind up my man? I tried talonflame and he is not cutting it. All other tailwind users are shit.

>>30391685
related is a recent replay in which I get every prediction wrong except for one turn
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-486741742

>>30391527
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sm/floralhealing.shtml

>>30391849
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Floral_Healing_(move)

Serebii has been wrong about many things in S/M.

>>30387098
Celesteela has access to eq and fire blast.

>>30389013
there's no hp normal though

>>30359132
How do i kill metagross?

>>30391797
he appears to be running aerodactyl based on his replay. I use pelipper on my team personally. It default carries Hurricane and Scald, but the other moveslots are completely open for utility like tailwind/roost/u-turn/wide guard/protect

>>30392157
Any fire type. Steel/psychic are shit for coverage.

Is z-trickroom/sleeping powder Exeggutall more than just a gimmick?
It feels almost viable with Tapu Bulu, but it feels like a backup TR setter, and I feel it's wrong to "waste" the z-move on a backup

What spread should I run on marowak? I'm using adamant with 252/252 Hp/Atk to make sure it hits like a truck while being as bulky as possible since I feel like I'm not going to outspeed much. Is that the standard set, or are people fiddling with other spreads? Moves are blitz/shadowbone/bonemerang/protect. I find myself getting rekt by garchomp's earthquake, even with grassy terrain up.

What are some pokemon that can survive for an incredibly long amount of time, or are hard to put down even with focus? I know about Celesteela already.

>>30392701
I put 80 into SpD. to balance it out a bit (180+ into attack)

>>30392585
I can almost guarantee you that you can find a better use for your team's z move than getting +1 accuracy

>>30392973
Porygon2. I've been thinking about running toxic just to deal with it. I thought about it a little though, and I think muk's knock off would work better.

WHERE THE FUCK DO I GET SUN STONES?

>>30393290
in the sun, you have to beat the e4 100 times and then necrozama turns into a spaceship and takes you to the sun or moon (the opposite of which version you have) where you can capture the other legendary and get sun/moon stones

File: amiwinningdad.png (111KB, 826x318px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 826x318px

>>30359132

Is this doubles team good? Crobat and Toxapex are plug ins as well, for who im not sure. Also i dont have all the dittos, the main ones i have are modest jolly and timid. This team is for fighting friends. Only 1 or 2 do iv shit. Mainly need move and item advice.

Krok @ Earth Plate/Jolly
Aerial Ace
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Crunch

Gastrodon@ Leftovers/bold
Scald
Earth Power
Recover
Toxic

Sal@ Life Orb/ Jolly
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
????
????

Klef@????/jolly
swagger
t-wave
substitute
????

Mimi@red card/jolly
Hone Claws
Shadow Claw
Play Rough
Shadow Sneak

Torkoal@Wide Lens/Bold
Fissure
Protect
Toxic
Heat Wave

Essentially making it look like im going all out by leading with double intimidate, then slowly deviate into trying to be the biggest faggot i can be.

>>30393290
there was one somewhere at the top of the mountain where you do sophocles' trial iirc. also you can get them from pelago on the cave exploration island.

so whats the general consensus for celesteela? is it leech seed, 3 attacks and lefties/sitrus? or is there something else?

i was thinking a special set with leech seed and sitrus, how viable and what nature would i go with. modest?

How does power of alchemy work in doubles? Is it only on switch in? Thinking of using Muk in my perish trap team.

>>30394280
How can you even perish trap? there is no trap, besides weak single target moves.

>>30394231
the consensus is that it's super versatile, so use it for whatever your team needs, although the 3 basic builds are bulky/stally with buffed defense, or either a special or physical attacker with moderate bulk, although I suppose you could also go for a mixed set if you really wanted.

>>30394373
I'm using Mega Gengar. I'm thinking of possibly using Alolan Muk's ability to replace M-Gengar in case it faints too early to trap my opponent.

>>30394482
Megastones are banned this season m8

>>30394482
fuck i didn't know that

>>30393919
first, if you're going to post teams here, please put them in a pastebin
pokemon showdown's teambuilder is also really useful for showing off stat spreads and being more specific about your team. That said, here's some feedback:

This team seems really bad
>krookodile
drop aerial ace and dragon claw, they're both wastes of a moveslot
rock slide and protect would probably be a lot more standard, and adamant nature would get you further than jolly most of the time
>gastrodon
Toxic really isn't good in vgc. The games go too fast for it to be useful.
>Salamence
run special
>klefki
nice meme set, enjoy relying on rng to win, especially with confusion and paralysis both nerfed significantly
>mimikyu
it gets fucking swords dance, why are you running hone claws?
>torkoal
>WIDE LENS
>FISSURE
>TOXIC

this team is very bad

File: prof shroomish vgc 17 speed guide.jpg (2MB, 2640x5759px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2640x5759px

I want to run a "tricky" team that has annoyances, weird stuff, and big surprises. Any ideas? All I got right now is sleep and destiny bond shenanigans.

so whats the best way to build fake out raichu?
timid 252 HP 252 SPE 4 SpD? what other moves though?

>>30394603
run opposite speed control moves [trick room and tailwind] at the same time so that your enemy will be confused about what you will actually bring. that is 1 good trick.

i assume you mean tricks/mind games that are actually good, not dumb gimmicks like FEAR rattata that don't work on good opponents

>>30394671
>max hp
it's not bulky, it's fast
give it tbolt + fake out at least

>>30394671
why not just put fake out on the normal 252 SpA set and use fake out on turn 1 then attack normally on turns 2 through 5

>>30394686
>>30394692
>>30394715
should i run focus sash on him?

>>30394775
generally that's the best option if you don't have anything else using it already

>>30394811

ok so im at normal 252 spa and speed,
sash

fake out
t bolt or discharge?
stab psychic?
cant find out what a good fourth option is

Do people usually run Rain Dance on their Drizzle Pelippers?
I remember having a Politoed with RD to counter CharY and Tyranitar back in 2014.

>>30394970
protect?

>>30395181
...no.

>>30395181
no, because most people are using it to counter weather rather than run a rain team

I need a pokemon that can outslow most things in trick room and do heavy damage, but is also useful outside of trick room. Is A-Muk one of my best options?