So what's the best set for the new Ferrothorn? I'm

>>30146293
Regenerator is the only ability that should be run. It has shit offenses.
Run something like this:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Scald

>>30146293
Bold regenerator
Scald and recover are essential

>>30146311
>Regenerator
>>30146347
>regenerator
But that's so boring.

>>30146436
OP did ask for "Best" set

>>30146293
I like

-Baneful Bunker/Toxic
-Recover
-Scald
-Haze

You can run something like Rocky Helmet since it has recovery and regenerator anyway, This thing is so much bullshit I love it.

>>30146293
If you didn't run haze make sure to pair it with an unaware tank clefable, since it's very suspectible to setup otherwise.

Regenerator
-Baneful Bunker
-Toxic Spikes
-Scald
-Recover

>>30146293
A little off topic but quick question about Salazzle; Is it only toxic that works on poison/steel types, or would toxic spikes work too?

>>30146478
Well then what would a "good" Merciless set look like? Also what's the def down chance on Liquidation? Is it garbage like all the Shadow Ball clones or good like Crush Claw and Moonblast?

>>30146731
All poison will work but it has to be laid by Salandit whom does not learn Toxic Spikes I don't think.

>>30146755
oh cool, thanks. So does that mean Salazzle using a poison move on say ferrothorn is super effective?

>>30146833
that means salazzle can use a poisoning move like toxic on steel pokemon and it will work, steel is still immune to poison atttacks even with it

>>30146755
>All poison will work
>>30146882
>steel is still immune to poison attacks

So which is it? One of you is fucking retarded. Let's find out which.

>>30146956
Only moves like toxic famalamb, no attackerinos

>>30146956
I meant "all poison" as in anything that inflicts a poison status condition. So shit like toxic and baneful bunker. Poison attacks will not work, sorry for the confusion.

>>30146974
That's what I thought.

>>30146755
Ding ding ding! We have our retard!

>>30146882
>A poisoning move like toxic
As in only toxic? Or are you implying moves with say 30% to inflict poison will work too?

>>30147005
technically toxic spikes should work too if it were a legal move

>>30146994
>>30147030
I didn't know Salazzle didn't learn Toxic Spikes since I haven't played the game, thought I read somewhere that it did so must have been false info.

Salazzle can't learn Baneful Bunker also, so, what you're saying is the only move Corrosion applies to is Toxic. It's an ability for one move. Wow.

>>30147005
Any move that can inflict poison can.
Sludge bomb can poison a poison-type.
Steel-types are still immune to poison attacks, so only status moves like toxic will work on them.

>>30147057
it gets poison gas at least, but yeah it's a gimmick ability

>>30147057
See
>>30147075
It also works for secondary effects on poison-types.

Also she has poison gas (lol who cares)

>>30146956
The answer is that it's you.

Steel is immune to poison type attacks. The ability does not change that, it just gets rid of their immunity to the poison STATUS, which is not the same thing.

>>30147057
Ask any bulky steel type what it feels like to now have to worry about toxic.

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>>30147005
>I'm a retard because you misunderstood

>>30147117
The literal only good Steel type that Salazzle couldn't just Fire Blast into Oblivion is Heatran. Corrosion is shit, anon.

>>30147117
nigga i never said it wasn't useful. Just thought it odd that it's essentially an ability for one move.
>>30147110
Looks like you're an even bigger retard than >>30146755, who said all poison will work, implying poison attacks would work on steel types. I was asking in the first place because I haven't played the game and didn't know. I thought it was just the latter (ridding them of status immunity), but I wanted to be sure, hence why I asked. Do you think anyone who asks questions are retarded? Fucking retarded faget.

>>30147233
>Asks for help because he doesn't know shit
>Proceeds to call everyone a retard for answering his questions
>Blames others for his own misunderstandings because he's too lazy to do the work himself
>faget
You are literally 13.

>>30147233
He said all poison would work as in moves that only cause the status, not actual attacks. Stop projecting your retardation on to others.

Ignore the retarded child asking about Salazzle in a thread about Toxapex.

>>30146293
Does anyone know the activation chance of Liquidation? Is it 50%? 30%? 10%?

>>30146311
>>30146347
Regen is pointless with recover, it can do ok damage with stab venoshock 100% crit

>>30147117
In practice Steels don't have concerns about Corrosion at all because they were already worried about Salazzle's stats and Fire type, OR have a OHKO on it and would gladly take the super-lopsided exchange of a poisoning for a KO - Salazzle will just have to switch out of those if it can't KO them first. Its relationship with any common Steel is a OHKO in one direction or another and Poison doesn't get involved much.

Corrosion is basically entirely for Poison types.

>>30146311
Most viable set so far, it can run Baneful Bunker instead of Scald too, or Toxic. Scald however helps with Celesteela and opposing Ferrothorn and Toxapex.

I'd say Toxapex is more a sort of Ferrothorn's waifu, both can be used in defensive cores with other common and solid stall mons.

>>30147271
>Proceeds to call everyone a retard for answering his questions vaguely/wrongly
>Blames others for said answers that can be interpreted differently.

Let's have a look at an example, shall we? Since apparently we all need a lesson today.

>All poison will work
All poison what? All poison moves? All poisoning moves? All poisoning-only moves?

>A poisoning move like toxic
Like toxic? What other moves are there like toxic to warrant me not just using toxic? No one can be this retarded, so, does he just mean poison moves that can poison?

I give you retards way too much credit, honestly...

>>30146293
Thet is some ugly design

>>30147326
Also Scald and Liquidation are equally good, if you don't require a Burn status that struggles with Toxic poison than you can spam Liquidation that also helps teammates switch ins on nerfed mons granting momentum.

>>30147316
Health regen is never useless, especially on a bulky mon which might have to deal with several threats. Also it's slow as fuck and might not be able to get a recover off

>>30147316
>Regenerator is pointless with Recover
You fucking what? More recovery is literally never a bad thing.
Especially when the only other option is Crit crap with massive base offense's of 65-
You aren't using Toxapex for damage, you're using to wall shit. To do that, it needs all the recovery it can get.

How to spot Verlisifags 101:
recommending
>merciless
>any attack that's not scald
>scrub bunker
>t-spikes in a meta where everything flys, is steel, or is Nihilego or another Toxapex

here's the smogon approved set, you jackasses
regenerator
rocky helmet
scald
haze
recover
toxic

>>30147331
Hey retard, your initial question NEVER mentioned attacking moves, only Toxic and TSpikes. Anyone who isn't a knuckle-dragging mongoloid could gather that "all poison", in this context, refers to "moves that only cause the poison status".
Now please, quit projecting your idiocy on others.

>>30147331
>TOXIC IS THE ONLY GOOD OPTION SO THAT MEANS YOU NEED TO IMPLY TO ME ITS THE ONLY OPTION
Holy shit you are cancer.

>>30147342
You have bad taste.

>>30147346
What's the proc rate on Liquidation?

>>30147389
>rocky helmet
>Over Sludge
You lost all credibility here.

>>30147440
>initial question
>quickly resolved by salazzle not learning tspikes
>everyone moved onto the next question regarding attacking moves
>B-BUT YOUR INITIAL QUESTION
You too faget.

>>30147478
>Defending vagueness
What was wrong with just saying "Toxic". As I already stated, "a poisoning move LIKE toxic" could imply all sorts of things.

>>30147487
You have to be 18 to post here.

>>30147478
between regenerator and recover, it doesn't need 6% recovery a turn. and toxapex doesn't have a good way of doling out damage to punish retards who stay in or try to get muh mentum, so helmet is there to put a stop to that. Black sludge does nothing to pressure the opponent, show me the calcs where that 6% a turn is the difference between walling and not walling

>>30147515
kek nice meme

>>30147478
Rocky Helmet is perfectly viable. It's like Slowbro where both are perfectly fine due to the loads of natural recovery and chip damage they bring.

>>30147519
>toxapex doesn't have a good way of doling out damage to punish retards
It does if you fucking use Merciless with Liquidation and Venoshock you bumtumbler. You underestimate how strong STAB double power crit Venoshock is even off low ass SPA. It doesn't need Regenerator if it has Recover, the thing has fucking Ferrothorn levels of bulk with no x4 weaknesses. If you play smart you can use Recover just fine.

>>30147559
>double power crit
WHAT A KEK

>>30147574
Read Venoshock you fucking pavement ape, then kill yourself.

>>30147559
If you're using that garbage set, it's not walling anything then

and no, I've done the calcs on venoshock, I know it's nothing to sleep on but it's entirely a gimmick and the heavy presence of steel types plus the fact that you have to first toxic the foe to do anything means you yourself are going to be walled by everything

>it doesn't need regenerator if it has recover
wtf am i reading? if it's already running the meme set, you have less bulk and more things are 2hkoing you. Recover-stalling would be a losing game

>while I'm not staying on things that are 2hkoing me
then you're not getting lefties OR regenerator OR recover, and you're playing from behind just for the slim chance to get a toxic->venoshock off

>>30147590
>double power crit venoshock
>implying the crit is double power and not venoshock
Comprehension you fucking pavement ape, kill yourself.

kek

>>30147641
>you have less bulk
What the fuck is stopping you from running defense EVs on a Merciless set? You then get power and bulk and only lose Regenerator.

>>30147662
Literally shut up.

>>30146293
>mixed attacker
even disregarding the rest of the memery of the set, this is objectively wrong

>>30147722
TRIGGERED

>>30147722
>What the fuck is stopping you from running defense EVs on a Merciless set? You then get power and bulk
the fact that it only has 53 base SpA? You're losing power AND survivability when you EV for bulk but don't have regenerator

>>30147775
>You're losing power AND survivability when you EV for bulk but don't have regenerator
Bulk it does not need because it has Recover. Ferrothorn doesn't have Recover or Regenerator and it does fucking fine. It stands to reason that Toxapex with EQUIVALENT bulk that hits EVEN HARDER will outperform. Especially considering it does get Recover.

>>30147826
The reason ferrothorn does fucking fine is because of his typing, which gives him WAY more resists to common attacking moves than Toxapex has, and because of that, it can switch in on a hell of a lot more than Toxapex, get two turns of lefties and often one of leech seed before it needs to switch out, and only takes 6% from SR.

>>30147890
Ferrothorn also invests solely into bulk, not mixed into damage.

>>30147930

Because Ferrothorn has offensive presence.

>>30147519
>>30147538
But does helmet matter with weaknesses being ground, psychic and electric? Moves of this type people usually use make no contact

this is the most disgusting thing gamefreak has ever conjured but at the same time I'm glad it's not poison/steel

>>30148034
Helmet is helpful for pivoting, which Toxipek will do a lot of. Switching onto resisted or weak hits and the opponent taking damage is great.

>>30148034
it's not to get damage on those mons, you shouldn't be staying in on them anyway

it's to punish people who are careless with their uturns and HJKs and just throw out their physical moves wantonly

>>30148080
>most disgusting thing gamefreak has ever conjured
>genies
no

>>30147890
>which gives him WAY more resists to common attacking moves than Toxapex has
>Ferrothorn has 1 x4 weakness, 1 x2 weakness, 1 immunity, and 9 resistances
>Toxapex has 3 x2 weaknesses and 8 resistances
Seems comparable to me, fampai.

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>>30147890
>which gives him WAY more resists to common attacking moves than Toxapex has
>Fire, Ice, Fighting, Water, and Bug aren't common attacking moves.

what nature

>>30147890
>torchic used ember

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>>30147075
>Steel-types are still immune to poison attacks, so only status moves like toxic will work on them.

Oooh, good info there. Thanks.

Also, who's running Empoleon as a Toxapex counter?

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>>30147890

>Parasect used Hidden Power (Fire)

>>30148744
>Spam Liquidation on Empoleon
>It dies because it's defense will constantly drop and it has nothing that can kill Toxapex

>>30148744
Empoleon is not a Toxapex counter. It has no SE coverage and that fucker gets Recover. Empoleon has no recovery and will lose.

>>30148744
>Also, who's running Empoleon as a Toxapex counter?
Yeah! Right next to my Tangrowth that I use as a Ferrothorn counter :^)

>>30148744
>Using an offensive pivot with no recovery or SE coverage as a counter for a mixed wall with insane defenses and incredible recovery
>Said wall resists BOTH it's STABs
Nigga what

>>30148744
Put me in the screenshot.

>this set gave me cancer

Regenarator: 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 Sp.D

Impish @ Rocky Helmet
-Baneful Bunker
-Haze
-Recover
-Liquidation

>DISGUSTING

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>>30148744

My counter is my Venusaur. He's in my team since Gen 1 (actually my first game was Crystal but I went back and played the Gen 1 games as well) so it's nice to see it getting more work this gen (had some tough times during Gen 5 & 6).

>>30146293
Where do we get Black Sludge in Sun/Moon? I've only just started the 3rd island.

>>30149303
>Haze

>>30149386
>(had some tough times during Gen 5 & 6).
You mean the gens where Venusaur was the most competitively viable that it has EVER been? Are you retarded?

>>30149588

Yes.

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On the subject of toxapex what are people using for checks and counters? I don't want to get walled by it and ferrothorn

>>30149426
Wild grimers

>>30149705
Anything with Ground coverage and the ability to have Fire/Fighting coverage her husbando, Ferrothorn.

>>30149780
so could I use my mudsdale even if it has shit speed?

>>30149705
Any decent psychic/electric attacker drops it real quick.

>>30149842
i was thinking of running psychic on my ribombee for coverage in addition to its HP fire

>>30147296
I think it's a Crunch clone so 20%

Regenerator
Toxic
Recover
Scald
Toxic Spikes/Haze

You might be able to make an AV set work if it didn't have shit offensive stats.

>>30151360
You sure? It's stronger than Crunch.

Fuck why has nobody figured this out yet?

>>30149569
I like posts like this because it reminds me of people saying "oh it's the biggest set-up bait since Chansey!" And then when they tried to set up on it they got hazed.

Toxapex has two sets, regenerator and merciless.

Regenerator @ Rocky Helmet
Toxic/Baneful Bunker
Scald
Recover
Toxic Spikes/Haze

Merciless @Black Sludge
Venoshock
Liquidation/Scald
Recover
Toxic/Baneful Bunker/Toxic Spikes

>>30146293
>merciless

stop this fucking meme

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REV UP THOSE TAUNTS

>>30146311
>toxic spikes
>scald
>no liquidation

>>30152345
>He doesn't want to fling around 130 BP STAB instacrit Venoshocks
Even with 53 uninvested SPA that makes this thing have incredible offensive presence.

So is it better to run Toxic or Toxic Spikes on the Regenerator version of this thing? What's the general consensus?

>>30153265
Toxic gets my vote. With Gengar and other Poison types eating Spikes and Defog now being more common, it's silly to use Spikes instead.

I have an HA Mareanie but it's Calm and not Bold, is it worth breeding a bold one? Can't imagine the calcs are that much different, just invest EV's as needed.

>>30153615
Yes it's worth it. You're missing out on more BST.

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I don't understand why people think Merciless is bad.

A Merciless set with ZERO SPA investment is still just as bulky as Ferrothorn, has better recovery, and hits harder. Why is that bad?

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New meta

>>30154590
It only hits harder on non-Steel, non-Poison types, and if you're using Toxic Spikes to be more efficient with not having to use Toxic on every mon you want to Venoshock, on non-flying/non-levitating mons.

Sure, you can give it some offensive presence with an incredibly limited distribution of mons with a boosted move of a type with terrible coverage, but you can also just give it Haze to ward off boosters who would otherwise use Toxapex as setup bait and effectively achieve the same thing except more reliably.

You also have to be willing to give up the option of being able to Burn/Paralyze key threats due to your likely spread of Toxic Spikes or using Toxic as your main status move.

And you know what? Merciless isn't all that terrible when combined with the boosted power of Venoshock. What's terrible is that it's competing with Regenerator on the same slot for a bulky mon that loves to switch in and out to take on a million different hits. There are threats that can 2HKO Toxapex before it can recover, which is prevented with a Regenerator switch. Regenerator is just stupidly good.

>>30154590
But it doesn't have the steel typing.

>>30154590
smogon fags have extremely linear ways of thinking. they see toxapex and insist that stall wall to the max is the only possible route to take, and anything else is objectively inferior. the reality is that there are a few different sets that you can run viably.

>>30146293
>Merciless

No.

>>30154590
Is not bad, is just worse that the other available options.

>>30154590
>and hits harder

With a bunch of situational set up that two (three if you're using toxic spikes) are immune to.

Regenerator utterly outclasses Merciless. Having passive healing just by switching is too good and will objectively win you more matches.

>>30155542
>non-Steel, non-Poison types
Ferrothorn can't fight Steel types at all, and Toxapex CAN still run Scald or Liquidation to help there.
>achieve the same thing more reliably
This one I will give you, however if you CAN stop sweepers with a merciless set you don't just disrupt them, you outright punish them for trying.
>You also have to be willing to give up the option of being able to Burn/Paralyze key threats
You can still run Scald alongside Toxic, and this thing can't paralyze anything last I checked. Not on its own.
>There are threats that can 2HKO Toxapex before it can recover, which is prevented with a Regenerator switch. Regenerator is just stupidly good.
I will yield on this one, Regenerator is amazing. But the problem here is without Merciless, Toxapex becomes a one dimensional wall that just uses Haze to deter sweeping. What's the end goal? It won't kill anything outside of toxic stall and hope for the best. Meanwhile a Merciless set can operate similar to Ferrothorn with more power and recovery.

I'm not saying Regenerator is bad, it's easily going to make this thing near impossible to kill. But a Merciless set gives it some much desired offensive presence at no cost outside of a 33% heal on switch which if you play right, it shouldn't need THAT badly. Wish support is a thing.

>>30154590
Because Regenerator is super good for a Pokemon that is designed to work as a pivot

>>30155906
It's supposed to work as a wall, not a pivot.

>>30146882
It has a fire typing anyway.

>>30155773
I view it the other way around.

Merciless only comes into play when you use Venoshock on a poisoned target; Regenerator comes into play every time you make a switch, which is going to be plenty of times due to the nature of competitive battling + Toxapex's role as a wall.

Yes, it does make Toxapex fairly one dimensional, but Regenerator also makes it effectively without equal as a wall. Forcing out opposing sweepers/set up mons after wracking up residual damage from Scald, burns, Toxic, opponent's LO, breaking Mimikyu's disguise, etc on a mon that will basically leave the encounter almost the same way it went in minus some PP spent is always a win in your favor.

Impossible to kill wall that can nullify setup is even better than Ferrothorn, since there are mons who can setup on Ferro, despite his offensive presence due to Steel/Grass not being terribly good coverage because it doesn't have Haze or any way to deter setup boosters with a Sub.

I'm going to make both a Merciless set and a Regenerator set since I see merit to both. However, Regenerator is the better set and should be the one people recommend. Again, it isn't that Merciless is terrible (offensive presence on a wall is good, despite its many limits), it's just that almost nothing compares to Regenerator on a defensive mon (or even an offensive mon if it has LO/U-turn going by Mienshao and Tornadus-I).

>>30155932
Unless you're running Haze, it has no function as a wall outside of being fucking setup fodder.

>>30156567
So why wouldn't you run Haze?