Once again, /vp/ proves they don't know jack about competitive

>>30057886
This thing is underwhelming as fuck

>>30057901
No it's BY FAR the strongest mon in OU right now.

Here's a replay from the guy who's #1 on the ladder.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-479411598

>>30057901
It's easily the best pokemon in OU.
Pheromosa is stopped cold by Toxapex, Aegi and a bunch of other shit.

Aegislash has issues with fire/dark/ground spam and its 50/50's can backfire tremendously.

This thing? If you don't have a Specs Kyurem or some other absurdly strong ice attack it's gonna setup and sweep your team. Good luck.

>>30057932
>strongest mon in OU right now.

We were expecting it to be Ubers.

>>30058100
Yeah, and yet we were also all expecting SM to be good but this generation has been even more disappointing than the last.

>>30057886
You know what, good for literally my moms digimon, he earned it after last gen.

>>30058100
It'll be banned.

>>30058100
OP probably thinks about when /vp/ saw its stat distribution and thought "lol everything went into HP, into BL it goes".

>>30058152
>this generation has been even more disappointing than the last.
Nah. XY is still king of disappointment.

>>30057932
>>30058000
My point of reference was Ubers, because I thought that was where it would immediately go because all the Zygardefags kept insisting it would be Mega Fug 2.0.

>>30058152
SM was pretty good to me m8. What didn't you like about it?

Actually, I can guess already - story, cutscenes, and common trainers usually having 1-2 Pokemon only.

>>30058236
It's essentially a defensive Mega Fug. It will go to ubers in no time now that people have realized that.

>>30057886
Wasn't its only significant stat increase HP? What's the fucking point when you need to drop to half health to enter complete form? Somehow Aura Break looks like the better ability despite being really shifty and niche itself

>>30058259
It's a heal, and you can rest.
It's like it got an ability that said
>all damaged reduced by one-third after the first time you go under 50% hp, and you also get a 33% heal when this ability activates

>>30058259
Imagine a Lugia with two excellent setup moves, a sickeningly good signature move and a much better typing.

Now Lugia is ubers isn't it? Do the math.

>>30058315
It doesn't seem like it'll be a good Uber though. Sounds like it'll be something decent but not necessarily meta-defining like Primal Groudon.

Will they ban both 10% and 50% alongside or just ban Power Construct?

Alright so this thing is a monster in OU. So how will it fare in Uber once it inevitably gets banned? Is it really good enough in a world of Mewtwo, Fug, Arceus and Xerneus?

>>30058427
Doesn't it straight up counter Primal Groudon with a physically bulky set?

Same with Solgaleo and a bunch of other physical attackers.

>>30057886
Can't be used in real competitive play so what does it matter?

>>30058324
It can fucking solo over half the threats in ubers.
unlike mfug it (maybe?) can't actually solo an entire team so it probably won't be banned, but it's the new pdon

>>30057932
looks fun, what are the evs? 252HP/252 attk or what?

>>30058100
Who cares, Ubers is terrible anyway.

What moves?

>>30058516
uber is tons of fun

>>30058502
>>30058535
The set he was using is
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Coil
- Thousand Arrows

>>30058152
>i liked oras over s/m
kys

>>30058152
>this generation
>more disappointing then the other
Haha, no. Not even in the slightest.

>>30058542
So what else can it do?

>>30058622
It can also run an incredibly annoying Sub+Glare+Dragon Tail+1000 Arrows set.

Or it can also run classic Dragon Dance with near-perfect coverage with Extremespeed+1000 Arrows+Stone Edge.

>>30058672
>tfw Core Enforcer is special
>they didn't even bother placing that much more into special attack
I don't suppose there's a good way to utilize that move is there?

>>30058697
Nope it's trash. Thousand Arrows is just too good to pass up. Any set should run that move.

>>30058720
Thousand Arrows is so good, Zygarde would be top tier even without Power Construct. Not broken as it is now, but still extremely good.

Also, Zygarde 10% totally cucks Flygon.

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>>30058757
>Zygarde 10% totally cucks Flygon
>cucked by a legendary with lower BST than Phione

>>30057932

That's just retarded. It belongs to Ubers, if anywhere.

>>30058784
We need a picture of Flygon's tears being licked by Zygarde-10%.

>>30057932
Jesus that makes Aegislash and Pheromosa look balanced in comparison.

Ironically 10% Zygarde is by far the least useful member of my in-game team.

>>30058830
Really?

>>30058845
By far. I wonder if I just got one with shit IVs, because both Thousand Waves and Extremespeed seem to be walled by fucking everything.

It's only lv. 45 or so at the moment, so it might be better once it levels up some more, but for now it's really not pulling its weight.

>>30058355
just power construct

>>30058894
What it's nature?

>>30058910
Jolly.

>>30058697
When you have four signature attacks, one of them is bound to be stupid

>>30058928
It could be worse. Zygarde could be Kyurem.
>3 signature moves that sound rad as fuck
>all useless
>Glaciate is glorified Icy Wind
>Ice Burn and Freeze Shock are ruined by being shitty charge moves
I swear all charge moves along with the recharge moves need buffs.
More power or something to justify being a sitting duck.

Susanoo Zygarde may be more powerful than Mega Fug.

Imagine Blissey with the same Def as its Special Def AND Garchomps' offense AND Dragon Dance AND the ability to ignore Ground Immunity.

It's roughly that. Insane.

>>30058894
Mine was pretty shite until I found the Core that gave it Thousand Arrows. I just love being able to hit Golbats and Skarmories with a Ground-type move.

>>30059044
Freeze Shock is no longer completely useless because Kyurem-B can viably run Icium Z so it can use an extremely powerful Subzero Slammer with it.

It's so strong that it cleanly OHKOs Ferrothorn and a bunch of other bulky shit. Definitely worth considering.

>>30059044
Stuff like Skull Bash has the right idea, IMO. Have the charge up turn boost a stat. SAtt for Solarbeam, Att for Sky Attack, shit like that would prob go a long way to helping a bit.

>Talonflame got executed.
>Pelipper is good.
>Mantine is good.
>Zygarde got well.

I love this generation.

>>30057886
It was expected to be able to throw down with Mega Fug and join him in AG. The fact that it's simply top tier OU is a bit underwhelming.

It DOES cuck the ever loving fuck out of Aegislash though and that's great

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>>30059166
That sure sounds nice but isn't that kind of a waste? As in you waste a moveslot and Kyurem is a sitting duck every time it uses it.

Actually how do Z-moves work with 2 turn moves anyways? Is it like a Power Herb or does it still take 2 turns? I thought a move like Geomancy still requires 2 turns even with a Z-move.

>>30059188
I'd like for you to be able to change your mind. Like you could switch moves after a charge so it's not so predictable.

And Hyper Beam and friends should have been boosted to at least 160 Power already. I mean look at Prismatic Laser.

>>30059220
>The fact that it's simply top tier OU is a bit underwhelming.
It's probably only OU because they want to see if Power Construct and the other shit is worth anything or not. Solgaleo and Lunala as 680s are obvious candidates to not even be considered for OU unless they had severe flaws

>Hoped that Zygarde would be a top tier all-out attacker.
>Got a top tier tank instead.

I'll take it.

>>30059260
Freeze Shock with Icium Z turns into a 200 BP Subzero Slammer. It doesn't need to charge but it only works once. Think of it as a glorified Ice Gem, which isn't all that bad since Gems were actually pretty good in gen 5.

>>30059276
So in this case it's both a Power Herb + Gem. Neat. You know it's actually surprising just how useful Z-moves turned out to be. I was honestly expecting them to be super situational and meh when they were revealed. Granted they still are pretty situational but still.

>>30059313
Z-moves are megas done right.

>>30058757
>Zygarde 10% totally cucks Flygon.
How exactly?

>>30058494
Yeah, there's calcs on the Uber forums over at Smogon but I think an offensive P-Groudon set 5hkoes, not sure if that's after a Coil but it's fat as fuck.

Needs support for all the special attackers though.

>>30059379
>Faster by a very healthy amount
>Thousand fucking Arrows
>Extreme Speed for when you're not fast enough even then

>>30059313
I recommend taking a look at Z-Parting Shot/Memento.

They're incredibly strong.

Also Manaphy with a water Z-crystal, lol.

>>30059413
And don't forget:
>Power Construct

>>30058259
Are you actually retarded?

>>30059433
I'm aware of what those moves do. And I'm also aware of Z-Conversion for Porygon Z.

>Also Manaphy with a water Z-crystal, lol
What about it?

>>30059362
I can see that. Since every Pokemon can take advantage of them unlike the few Gamefreak's favorites and Mega Evolution. Then again Pokemon exclusive Z-moves.

>>30059480
Manaphy can either get +1 speed from Z-Rain Dance so it can sweep faster teams or use a water nuke against bulkier ones.

>>30057901
Literally physical Chansey but it can actually attack

>>30059379
Flygon needed something to separate from the other Dragon/Ground Pokemon. It was then revealed that he got Dragon Dance this gen, making him the fastest Dragon/Ground with access to Dragon Dance! Until it was revealed that Zygarde 10% is faster than Flygon, hits just as hard as Flygon, has priority, and gets access to Thousand Arrows.

After he finally stopped getting cucked by a land shark, he's now cucked by a dog.

>>30059413
>so faster
So you can also use Substitute 2 times to lower your HP to 50% and becomes perfect in 2 turns, right?

>>30059433
Weavile with a Z-crystal is cute too.

Straight up kills Ferrothorn after rocks and has access to a 100BP (If I'm not mistaken) priority attack.

>>30058496
B-b-but Smogon is the only thing that matters!

>>30058236
>Mega Fug 2.0
If only it was just that
>252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zygarde: 452-534 (71 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

>>30057886
It doesn't matter if it's OP or not, it's still a tremendous shitmon.

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>>30059947
>It doesn't matter if it's OP or not, it's still a tremendous shitmon.

>>30059660
>one of the most powerful attacks in the game can't 1hko on a SE hit

>>30057886
doesn't it have dragon dance, thousand waves and arrows? Of course it's gonna be ubers

Both RestTalk and SubDTail are disgustingly good sets.
Here's a replay that shows both of them in action.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-479620608

>>30059533
Z moves don't get prio.

>>30060059
Holy shit that queenofhax guy's team is cancer

>>30058253
Those are valid

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>>30060186
>those are valid
For autists like you that can't enjoy a game.

>>30060059
It sucks he had to switch out Zygarde against Aegislash because he ran out of Thousand Arrows PP.
He did waste a lot of PP on Toxapex, especially against some obvious plays, but I'm not sure what he could have done differently besides the fishing for crits he was already doing.

>>30060059
Shit takes so long I was grimacing the whole time. Fuck that cancer of queenofhax team. A manifestation of pure rage in a form of. Pokémon team.

>>30060158
There's more!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-479632515

>>30060325
This is disgusting.

I love it.

>>30060325
C A N C E R
A
N
C
E
R

>>30060325
>Tapu Koko does less than 30% with HP Ice and Dazzling Gleam

Lol.

>>30060325
>that's the team on the top of the ladder
ew

>>30060616
This is indeed troubling.

If cancerstall is viable at the start of the generation with all the uber HO mons running rampant, it's only gonna get worse as they get banned.

>>30060688
Hopefully Toxapex gets banned.

>>30060688
But I thought /vp/ said that stall is dead? /vp/ wouldn't lie, right?

>>30060700
As much as I'd love to see that horror banned, it isn't gonna happen.

By Smogon's standards it's not broken because it is extremely passive and can be 2HKO'd by SE hits.

It doesn't change the fact that it walls half of OU by itself and the combination of extreme bulk, Recover AND Regenerator is disgusting.

>>30059947
>shitmon
>OP
Aren't those literally polar opposites?

>>30060700
Toxapex is literally the only thing that counters bulky Zygarde sets:
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7pokebankou-479653559

What's impressive is that it does so by BEING WEAK TO ITS STAB ATTACK.

It's a prime case of "broken checking broken".

>>30060817
>it does so by BEING WEAK TO ITS STAB ATTACK.
Wait, what?

>>30060864
Thousand Arrows

>>30060864
Zygarde without Atk investment literally can't break through Toxapex even thoigh he has SE STAB.

>>30060877
>>30060881
Oh, I thought you were saying that the weakness HELPED toxapex somehow

>>30060900
It kind of does because it lures Zygarde and PP stalls it.

>>30060946
That won't work when they realize they can't break though it with Zygarde.

>>30060059
>http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-479620608
That sub/coil Zygarde put in work against that cancerous stall team. A real shame he ran out of PP

>>30060962
>they can't break though it with Zygarde
Assuming they don't have Black Sludge, you can.
+1 Thousand Waves does more than Recover can heal off, so eventually Toxapex will be using more Recover PP than Zygarde will be using Thousand Arrows PP.

>>30060962
It's not that simple.
Fishing for crits might be preferable than switching out and risking a Scald Burn or Toxic Spikes poisoning. Toxapex is a bitch to deal with.

>>30060992
Haze.

>>30060325
great, now i have aids

>>30059260
Hyper beam should do 140 stab damage with typing of the pokemon that using it.
Giga Impact should stay as normal move but should always lower opponent defence by 1.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-479665888

Holy fuck it ate that Genesects Ice Beam for breakfast.

>>30061179
Anon, is not stab

>>30061205
It barely did half though, and that's an offensive spread on Zygarde.

I'm just going through replays and this is tanking all kinds of shit.

8 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 352-416 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's Tankchomp, for comparison.

>tfw based bro corsola is like a completely shit version of toxapex

>>30061205
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 582-691 (93.8 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
>not even any defense boost/investment and it's not guaranteed

>>30061245
So basically Zygarde forces offensive teams to carry an ice type.

>>30057886
Most people just said that it wouldn't be top Ubers material.
The fact that they're even letting it roam around in OU for now speaks volumes.

>>30061374
Or a strong fairy. He gets btfo by certain tapus as well as Magerna's Fleur Cannon.

He also gets one shotted by any greninja with ice beam, whether protean or battle bond

>>30061383
They were so, so very wrong.

Not only does this thing mop the floor with the entire OU tier, it's not a "pseudo-uber" like Deoxys-N or shit like that but more on the level of Yveltal and Rayquaza.

>>30057886

>now I gotta deal with Dragon Chansey on top of Chansey itself.

Fuck it, I'm going to UU/LC. See you guys in six months.

>>30061406
It gets cockblocked by toxapex unless it has either +2 attack or gets a crit

>>30061429
Everyone and their mom gets cockblocked by Toxapek.

>>30061429
wow guess what, sending out toxapex is asking for a +6 zygarde

>>30061442
Haze.

>>30057886
Well, it will be shit tier in Ubers, so we anti-Zygardefriends has already won.

>>30061450
wrong

>>30059527

They should have just given Flygon Quiver Dance so then it could actually differentiate itself from the other dragon/grounds. It's only niche is being a good P-Don check.

They should have given it 90 special attack and quiver dance and it'd be the best non-BP quiver dancer in the game.

>>30061451
Something that fucks P.Don can't be shit tier.

>>30061452
What's wrong?
Haze is mandatory on Toxapex if you don't want it to be setup bait.

>>30061517
>what is tapu fini

>>30058100
>strongest mon in OU
>in a world where a half dozen things that were banned in XYORAS are down in OU again
>guys it's weak it's not in ubers yet!

Kinda sucks that with the typical bitching on smosnut will ban Pher and Zyguard P.C to ubers and die

>>30061531
Not a concern for Toxapex since it gets walled.

Also a funny fact: Misty Terrain activates AFTER hazards, so if Toxapex already used Toxic Spikes, Fini is fucked.

>>30061549
Pherm absolutely needs to go though. It mandates priority in a post bravest bird world

If Zygarde goes, Toxapex needs to go with it cause it's a case of broken checking broken

>>30057932
It's fucking crocune all over again

>>30061591
Toxapex doesn't need to go anywhere you fucking faggot

>>30059080
>Garchomps offense
Lolno

The others are true though

>>30061640
t. mega Pinsir

>>30061591
>tox fucks Pherm
>buzzwaldo fucks Phem
>Aegis fucks Phem
>Arcanine fucks Pherm
>Mimi fucking fucks pherm

Why smogonbabies are so retarded?

>>30061028

Not all Toxapex will be running haze though.

The target demo is not autismals at the upper rung of "competitive pokemon" (holy fuck) it's kids that woulld play mid-level at best that just want the next omgsopowerful mewtwo-tier mon.

You're a guaranteed buy, they don't have to cater to you because you'll eat this shit up anyway

>>30061791
They will if they don't want to be setup bait. It's non-negotiable.

>>30061791
They will now. They can't afford to not run it with Zygarde everywhere like this now.

>lead with zoroark
>Meloetta in slot 6, has relic song
>Muk with power of alchemy (gets illusion once Zoroark bites it)
no one will ever know what i'm sending out, everyone's getting fucked

>>30061640
>stall babies
Lmao

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>>30061954

>>30061954
Does Reciever/Power of Alchemy work in Singles?

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>DP
>a better Flygon appears, named Garchomp

>XY
>Megaevolution is discovered and Garchomp can evolve to Mega-Garchomp
>Flygon still shit

>ORAS
>Megaevolution was in Hoenn too!
>Mega-Flygon never comes

>SM
>Flygon can use Dragon Dance now..!!
>Zygarde wins a forme with same attack, more special defense and more speed. Zygarde can also use Dragon Dance, Extreme Speed and THOUSAND ARROWS to hit flying and levitate mons

>>30058100
Thanks for proving once again you guys know nothing about the meta works.

>>30062467
Flygon is a lot bulkier than Zygarde-10%