>050/152/142 defenses >regenerator ability >access to

What's a good set for him?

>>30007450
>50 hp
by hitting it with a super effective attack
>but muh defenses
they mean nothing when you have zero HP

>>30007667
You clearly didn't saw this thing in action.

earthquake?

>>30007450
>Tapu Koko
>Alakazam
>Tapu Lele literally OHKOs it, even with max HP and SpDef
>Taunt bait
>Set-up fodder for Nasty Plotters and Pokemon immune to Burn

It's a strong-ass Wall Mon, but just think outside the box a little.

>>30007667
50hp while mediocre it's ok for a Pokemon with such a great defenses and no reason to invest in anything else other than its bulk.

I'm glad at least one Pokemon is a good stallmon this gen.

>>30007667
50 HP is entirely viable if it's backed up by good defenses. Rotom-Wash is considered to be very bulky with 50 HP because it is backed up by 107 in both Defense and Sp. Defense.

>>30007702
>burns you with scald
>you can barely damage it with earthquake
>you burn it
>doesn't care about the attack drop as it's a defensive 'mon.
>takes little damage and just recovers it off

>>30007710
Basically this.

>>30007710
>what is switching
And thanks to Regenerator this is actually a pretty legit response.
Alakazam better rev up the Focus Miss now that Dark types will be more common to counter the blue genie and other annoying pranksters.

>>30007638
Bold Nature @ Black Sludge
252 HP - 252 Def - 4 SpDef
- Scald
- Venoshock/Sludge Bomb
- Recover
- Baleful Bunker/T-Spikes

this is the most popular right now.

>>30007757
the man asked for ways to deal with it, I supplied. The answer to any counter outside of trappers is "what is switching".

>>30007760
What does Baleful Bunker does?

This thing kinda gets countered hard by steel types.

Sub or Taunt seems like a good way to neuter it

I think aside from the obvious strong wall potential, merciless will allow it to run a half-decent offensive set to catch people off-guard

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>>30007785
My bad. I thought that was a rehorical quastion.

>>30007790
Think Spiky Shield but with poison.

>>30007790
protect that poisons if your move is blocked

>>30007813
>>30007818
With these many meanings of poisoning your oponent isn't Scald kind of a conflictual move?

What else does this thing learns that can actually hurt Steel types?

>>30007790
Steel types do avoid most of what it can do outside of Scald/Burn, but in turn there aren't many Steel types outside of Magnezone and maybe Magearna that can deal with it in return.

>>30007920
Liquidation and Surf are the only other things it gets that hits Steel neutral. Scald is also still useful for things that can't be poisoned. Its Offenses are so poor that a bit extra BP isn't going to make much of a difference in damage.

>>30007972
this was supposed to be for >>30007877

>>30007877
scald is obviously there for coverage, specifically things that cannot be poisoned so you can burn them instead

>>30007760
Bold Nature @ Black Sludge
252 HP - 252 Def - 4 SpDef
>Scald / Liquidation
>Infestation
- Recover
- Baleful Bunker/T-Spikes

There we go, fixed.

Infestation does 1/8 damage a turn and traps. Combine that with Poison (dead in literally 4 turns if you do nothing but Baneful Bunker + Recover) or even Burn (still dead in 6 turns), and it hurts like a bitch. Alternatively, use Infestation > Liquidation and watch as they become Pursuit bait when you switch out.

>>30007877
>What else does this thing learns that can actually hurt Steel types?

Infestation can fuck Steel types over pretty hard, since they have no reliable way to damage this thing.

>>30007450
Its lack of offensive pressure is its main weakness. Very easily abused by taunters because it only has ~50atk/satk

also burn wasn't just scald, tons of stuff ran WoW, burn was just better than poison in nintendo metas. Still is, but the gap is narrower.

>set up toxic spikes
>venoshock
gg

>>30008333
>actually running merciless

showderp tier.

>>30007450
doesnt shuckle have 20/230/230 defenses? Its way better

>>30008333
It would be great on something that didn't have literally 53 Sp.A

>>30008463
Hurr durr what are natures and evs

>>30008458
Does Shuckle have Toxic Spikes?
Does Shuckle have Scald?
Does Shuckle have a Non-Shit Typing?
Does Shuckle have a reliable Recovery Move?

No, Shuckle's shit.

Seriously though, if Shuckle had a recovery move he might see some use, but as is he can't do fuck all.

>>30007972
Seems like a grave problem for this guy. You have to build teams around him to not get stuck into a corner with the many hard counters it will have.

>>30008458
20 HP is almost entirely unusable. It's so bad that it entirely counters Shuckle's high defenses. Even with investment, it caps out at 244 max HP. It's the opposite case to Wobbuffet, where it's massive 190 HP is offset by its low defenses. Unlike Shuckle however, Wobbuffet's stats play into its movepool. Shuckle is left with no way to recover reliably.

Also, Shuckle has 2 resistances (Normal and Poison) and 3 weaknesses (Water, Steel and Rock).
Toxapex has 8 resistances (Water, Ice, Poison, Fire, Fighting, Bug, Steel, Fairy) and 3 weaknesses (Psychic, Ground and Electric).

>>30007450
magnezone shits on FerroPex

>>30008480
>>30008333
>Wasting Nature and EV's on something that, even with max investment, can't even reach the Sp. Atk of a completely uninvested Magnemite or Xatu
>Using Nature, a percentage boost, on the base 53 Stat instead of on the base 152 Stat

But ok, let's say we went completely retarded for a moment.

Your 252+ Toxapex now has a grand total of 225 Sp. Atk (0 EV Neutral Nature Base 95's reach 226).

He also has, at maximum, 169 Speed - meaning he's getting hit first all the fucking time.

252+ SpA Life Orb Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP cause Critical) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine on a critical hit: 313-370 (81.7 - 96.6%)

So yeah. It can't even OHKO a regular 90/80 Pokemon.

Oh, but what's that? You used up your EV's on Sp.A and Speed? Well I'll even give you some for free.

252 HP Modest Toxapex get 2HKO'd by any 252+ 100 Base Attack Earthquake (non-stab). And because it reaches an amazingly shitty Speed Tier, Toxapex is always getting hit first.


So no, any Toxapex set unironically using Merciless is absolute fucking shit and completely retarded. Absolutely no one should ever use it.

How is burn nerfed?

>>30008794
burn dmg halved

>>30008794
does half as much damage now

>>30008793
Careful mate, your autism is showing

>>30007450

/vp/ is such casuals

Substitute
Tapu-Lele
M-Gardevoir
M-Alakazam
Latios
Dugtrio Trap

>>30008844
Go back to using your mouthbreathingly stupid sets showderp.

>>30008858
>he thinks Dugtrio counters Toxapex

top juj on the jej my nigga

>>30008904
>Pheromosa Uses High Jump Kick
>swaps in toxapex
>takes 25%
>Uses U-turn
>takes 10%
>53 base spatk
>duggy survives
>CB 100base stab EQ
>ded

>>30007733
>>30007753
i'm a dummy that doesn't understand the damage formula

what's the difference between (high hp, low defenses) and (low hp, high defenses)? are they tactically similar or is one more important?

Anyone who plans to play stall, better pack those shed shells.

>>30008904
>>30008939

Yeah, Dugtrio's not a counter, and he's not even a safe check.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 240-284 (78.9 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

(also that's a very Sub-Optimal set for Duggy since he really wants more speed to catch other Pokes)

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dugtrio: 168-200 (83.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Toxapex Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 236-282 (117.4 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah, even with a negative nature and no investment, Liquidation still OHKO's Dugtrio.

Dugtrio is NOT someone to use against Toxapex.

>>30009123
holy autism, get this guy his sonic plush

>>30009187
have you literally never seen damage calculations before, or are you the anon that got blown the fuck out earlier

>>30007667
>He hasn't fought againt Rotom-W or M-Mawile

>>30009004
As damage is calculated by the ratio between the attacker's offense against the victim's defense, having a very low Def / Sp. Def stat can cause the attacker's damage to skyrocket. Take a look at Blissey: 255/010/135 defenses. Although Blissey can tank hits all day on the Special side, due to a huge amount of Sp. Defense complimenting its astronomical HP stat, the 10 base Defense causes any physical attacker to massively capitalize on the ratio-style equation in the damage formula.

On the other hand, you have a Pokemon such as Shuckle, which has astronomical defenses but the worst base HP of any FE Pokemon. As defense goes up, its effects on the attacker begin to dwindle. As damage output is rounded to whole numbers, this allows attackers to still output a good amount of damage, especially with super-effective attacks.

i.e.:
Garchomp [130] Vs Aggron [180]
Att: 394 vs Def: 504
394/504=0.78
Garchomp [130] Vs Shuckle [230]
Att: 394 vs Def: 614
394/614=0.64

Garchomp [130] vs Azumarill [080]
Att: 394 vs Def: 284
394/284=1.39
Garchomp [130] vs Dusclops [130]
Att: 394 vs Def: 394
394/394=1

>>30009294
so in the garchomp vs aggron calc, what does the ratio of .78 signify? does it multiply the power of the attack (i guess earthquake) and result in a number that gets subtracted from aggron's HP?

>>30008939
>duggy survives
a scald? super unlikely - just scald by itself only gives him a 70% chance to live (since burn means he wouldn't even 2hko anymore). if spikes or toxix spikes are in play he's dead.

>>30009004
defensive stats give more weight to that side obviously, since HP is used for calcs in both. but if you're looking for a balanced wall, there's little difference in high/low or low/high. the main thing is that in general it's better to increase HP via EV's rather than defensive stats for most pokemon (blissey and other high HP pokemon are obviously the exceptions)

this is of course ignoring HP dependant moves like seismic toss, wish, or pain split

Most important: where the hell I can catch the preevolution?

>>30009382
corsola sos, it'll appear and fight the corsola

>>30009382
fishing near kukui's lab when ripples are on

>>30009350
No not entirely.

Basically, the closer the Attacker's Atk is to the Defender's Def, the more HP factors into how many hits you can take. It's still usually ideal to have better defense than it HP, with a few outliers here and there.

Is this pokemon really reliable? How is it suppose to take hits with its low hp stat?

>>30009507
okay, i think i have a better understanding of that now, thanks.

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>>30009350
Pretty close actually, pic related is the damage formula.

Basically, at level 100 and with no modifiers, damage dealt to a Pokemon is ~0.84(Attack/Defense).

As you can see, Defense is definitely the more important stat, but you usually need to balance it with HP so that you can take the occasional hits from both Physical and Special.

>>30009845
* Damage (Lvl. 100, no modifiers) = ~0.84(Atk/Def) * BP

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>>30009294
>>30009350
>>30009762
>>30009845
Just made this write-up.
Basically, the difference in damage taken between Pokemon with 30 defense and 80 defense is far more significant that the difference taken in damage with 180 defense and 230 defense.

>>30009909
Just noticed a mistake there. It should be Kadabra, not Raticate.

Where do i catch this thing?

>>30009909
Saved.

>>30009957
Fuck Kadabra.

>>30008214
Would it be better to run merciless or regenerator on this? Liquidation damage with def drops and crits can kill things pretty fast if they get poisoned from t-spikes, but I imagine the extra recovery from regenerator would be pretty nice too.

>>30010023
Beat a Corsola within an inch of its life, listen to it scream bloody murder, and watch as a Mareanie crawls up and tries to liquify it.

>>30007450
You can just set up a Calm Mind and body it

>>30008571
Honestly, it makes for a terrifying defensive core with Ferrothorn. They both resist eachother's weaknesses very well. They both still have an issue with setup sweepers, which can be mitigated a bit by either giving Ferro T-Wave, or making a bulk trio by having Unaware Clefable join the party (at that point, you might as well make a disgusting stall team... you sick bastards).

>>30009909
that is really thorough, an awesome read.

so...given the choice between very high HP and very high physical defense, it would be preferable to have high defense to decrease the actual "number" of damage the defending pokemon takes, but at the same time there are diminishing returns for high defense values, which is why shuckle isn't an unstoppable god.

>>30008571
>>30010108
As >>30008786 mentions though, Magnezone takes a big fat dump on FerroPex core. Granted, Ferro can run Shed Shell to avoid being trapped, but it still puts both Mons into a very difficult situation.

>>30010093
Regenerator. It lets him act in a defensive core pretty easily with his 8 resists, and it really helps to compliment Recover and Black Sludge.

Merciless is pretty poor due to his sub-standard attacking stats, and because crits only do 1.5x damage now. Using Liquidation (guaranteed defense drop) and then switching to a Pursuit user would probably be a better use of your turns than trying to run a Merciless set, especially since such a set would be completely walled out by Steel and Poison types.

Actually I'd even suggest Limber over Merciless - he already can't get poisoned, and he gives zero shits about getting burnt, so giving him paralysis immunity makes him practically immune to everything but sleep.

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>>30010094

>>30010094
So wheres corsola then?

>>30009123
>>30008793
Alright I'll give you that one. But tell me how will stall deal with:

Tapu-Lele
Magerna
M-Zam
M-Diancie/Diancie
Landorus-I
Pheromosa
Duggy
Magnezone

I'm curious as a stall player

>>30010191
>>30010191
That's why you don't just run FerroPex.

You run FerroPex-T.

Landorus-T gives no fucks about Magnezone, and he's completely immune to Toxapex's Ground and Electric weaknesses. Him and Toxapex even cover Ferrothorn's Fighting Weakness.

Between the three of them they have resistances or immunities to everything but Ghost, Flying, and Dark, which none of them are weak to.

Intimidate from Landorus-T and Regenerator on Toxapex even synchronize well together, and both of them like leech seed drains from Ferrothorn.

>>30010132
yeah %damage is also a factor here, sure shuckle may take less actual damage however if that damage is a greater % of shuckles hp compared to say aggron then we do have the issue of diminishing returns

>>30007710
>SE attacks
>taunt
>just boost
the stuff you listed isnt 'thinking outside the box' at all it's the basic shit you do to beat any wall

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>>30010549
Very nice Anon. That fits much better on a non-stall team than anything I thought of.

>>30008495
>sturdy
>encore
>sr
>sticky web
it has a decent niche desu

>>30008822
But hasnt burn always been a sort of debuff halving the opponent's atk, while poison/bad poison fits more the DOT archetype? They just pronounced the difference between the statuses more.

>>30010378

>Tapu-Lele
He is legit going to fuck Stall up. Best of luck dealing with him.

>Magerna
She's getting banned - there's no way Soul Heart + her stats are staying in OU.

>M-Zam
Dark Types, Sucker Punch (even with the nerf to BP and Priority), Landorus-T/Tornadus-T. A bit of a threat though.

>M-Diancie/Diancie
Earth Power variants have trouble with Ferrothorn, HP Fire variants will have trouble with Toxapex.

>Landorus-I
Skarmory isn't terribly concerned about him, but I actually suspect he'll end up Uber again.

>Pheromosa
UBER AS FUCK COME ON

>Duggy
Stall isn't concerned about him. Even max'd he fails to OHKO a lot of the cores.

>Magnezone
Landorus-T, Shed Shell, Terrakion, Mega Venusaur, even Marvel Scale Dragonite. Magnet Pull variants will fucking rape certain teams of course, but they always have.

>>30007450
got this little fucker and its auto-win most of the times vs NPCs
I love everything about it
sure, its not a OHKO-mon but it wins its rounds with patience and tactic

>>30010976
>M-Diancie/Diancie
Earth Power variants have trouble with Ferrothorn, HP Fire variants will have trouble with Toxapex.
with the Mega speed buff, M-Diancie doesn't need to choose between HP-Fire and Earth Power anymore, it can run them on the same set. It's gonna wreck shit this Gen (ntm the Diamond Storm buff).

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yo what can we do with my boy NothingI

>>30010982
Moves and skills?

>>30010886
Poison and Burn used to both do 1/8th ticks per turn. Burn was fucking great, since it halved their Atk and either made them waste their lefties or they'd lose 45% of their health in 2 turns just by holding life orb.

Burn would fuck over bulky attackers, even once with Recover, since they had to recover extra due to the loss of lefties recovery.

Toxic only caught up on the 3rd turn, and overtook it after that, making it only useful against Stall.

Now, Burn and Lefties cancels out meaning burned Pokemon have much more survivability, and Special Attackers will willingly switch into it to avoid a worse status.

I actually like the nerf, but it definitely affected quite a bit.

>>30010108
I think a good team consists of 3 stallmons and 3 hyper offensive heavy hitters

>>30011082
Toxic Spikes / Toxic
Recover
Scald / Surf
Venoshock / Whatever

>>30011039
>with the Mega speed buff, M-Diancie doesn't need to choose between HP-Fire and Earth Power anymore, it can run them on the same set. It's gonna wreck shit this Gen (ntm the Diamond Storm buff).

Mega Diancie's mostly dropped Protect in favour of Rock Polish a while ago, and with the Mega Speed buff it works even better since they can stay in Non-Mega form the turn they Rock Polish (much better for incoming attacks), and then immediately speed right up via Mega next turn. Most of them will still be choosing between the ground or fire coverage.

I forgot about the Diamond Storm buff though - with that and the Burn nerf, Stall will be heavily reliant on making sure she has to land on Toxic Spikes, or else they might just need a straight counter.

>>30008463
Since crits always do triple damage, it essentially becomes 156 sp.atk

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>>30011709
>Since crits always do triple damage

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>>30011709
>crits always do triple damage

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>>30011709
>Crits
>x3 damage

>>30007450
>burn was nerfed into the ground this gen because gamefreak were too retarded to just nerf scald

What?

>>30007450
toxacroak my man

>>30011709
go back to fire emblem faggot crits have never done x3 damage unless you have sniper

>>30008793
Don't forget that they'll be taking poison damage. You know, cause they are poisoned.
Switching into one layer of toxic spikes turns that into a fairly high ch ance to OHKO, I think.

>>30011928
The nerf was that Burn now does 1/16 a turn instead of 1/8, so it's no longer a strictly better Poison.

He's entirely wrong about Scald though, it doesn't need a nerf. In fact, it would be better overall if it was 65 BP (to prevent Technician shenanigans) and had a 50% chance to Burn.

>>30012132
>to prevent Technician shenanigans
There is nothing with the ability Technician that learns Scald.

>>30012050
>Switching into one layer of toxic spikes turns that into a fairly high chance to OHKO, I think.

It actually doesn't, but mostly because of how the end of the turn is structured.

252+ SpA Life Orb Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine on a critical hit: 313-370 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers Recovery and Poison Damage.

End of Turn priority goes: Weather damage > Recovery > Status damage > Reoccurring move damage, etc. So the turn the Arcanine switches in, there's less than a 1/5 chance Toxapex gets a KO with Venoshock. If he landed on two layers of Toxic Spikes, he definitely isn't getting KO'd. And Arcanine's only a 90/80.

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>>30012231

I want to breed toxapex but don't know where to catch ditto or what other mons are compatible with toxapex. Anyone knows?

>>30012900
Check serebii it was updated today

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>>30011709
>53x3
>156