how is she not literally worse than zinnia she is the fucking

She is moe.

>>29990772
I don't think you understand the problem with Zinnia then

She's the MC's(male) wife.

>>29990772
Only reason she doesn't bother people is because she's cute and wants your dick. If Zinnia wanted some /ss/ she'd be far more popular.

why would a white girl be worse than zinnia

>>29990772
I hate it. This is exactly what I was worried about when I found out she was important to the story.

I was hoping she would pop up in a few plot-important segments. Instead she's forced on the player through the whole thing.

She is great and is the only reason the game has any kind of story because they can't do anything with your shell of a playable character
And Zinnia isn't bad either

>>29991034
literally everything is the same no matter the gender you play as.

>>29990772
The plot didn't revolve around the stupidity of the girl, but rather having to hear generic shitty family life.

>>29990772
Is she the one that battles to become the best?
Thought not.

>>29991346
Play DQ some time

>>29991475
Becoming the best isn't even the point of this game. Building the Alolan league was just something tacked on at the very end, and in-story it was just because Kukui thought it'd be a cool idea.

Would have been nice if she would literally follow you the whole game so you could play it at your own pace instead of being dragged around.

>>29990772
Is she as pushed on you as N was (i.e. frequent meetings and being as important as you are)?

>>29992098
MC is basically her pokemon.

>>29990772
Lillie a qt
Zinnia ruined a shitty game even further

>>29992098
She's even more than that. The MC basically exists to fight battles for her, that's literally it. Lillie is the protagonist of SM, the player character is her friend and a side character.

>>29991816
Why I don't like Sun/Moon. Also Alolan forms are stupid. Are they really not giving the starters their own Megas? Why did they stop making new Megas?

>>29992144
That's hot.

>>29992221
>wanting more Megas
They were a mistake.

>>29992267
They were but you just don't stop halfway. You either don't do it at all or go all the way.

>>29992249
No because lillie is shit

>>29992267
I'm fine with them. But ignoring it in later games? Retarded.

>she could of been the mysterious character that popped in now and then
>nope she's fucking force fed to the player about her sad life ;_;
>literal mary-sue

Gladion is more likable and interesting

>>29992302
Exactly. It's a popular mechanic whether you dislike it or not? Why the fuck does gf not churn out a few? Fuck. Te starters should at least get them

>>29992302
>>29992321
What do you expect from the same guys who dump a feature every generation or every instalment?
Knowing the the alohan forms have been squandered and will never appear again too.

How is Lillie being the MC a bad thing?

Cross wasn't the MC of Xenoblade Chronicles X, but you don't see players bitching about that.

>>29992221
Looking at dex Mega entries, they hate them with a passion now.

>>29992497
>How is being the irrelevant nothing in someone elses story a bad thing?

>Cross... you don't see players bitching about that.
It's the single most common complaint about the game. Are you fucking blind?

>>29992513
Hopefully next gen goes back to the basics. Gen V was my favorite because literally all new Pokemon.

>>29992538
This is what was said about Gen 8. I think they are done giving us good pokedexes.

>>29992562
What?

>>29992518
I liked it though. Felt fairly refreshing from a story perspective. I could go off on my own and have my own little adventures, then join back up with Elma whenever I felt like continuing on with the plot. The only difference is that in XCX, the whole world is available from the start, whereas Pokemon railroads you.

>>29990772
Because she didn't endanger an entire region twice because of some bullshit that may or may not have been true.

She is. If Zinnia was a moeblob she'd be more popular too.

Zinnia hijacks the whole fucking plot, literally steals the plot out from under everybody who was involved by revealing she was behind it ALL. She then forces you to do a shitty fetch quest going to places you've already been to so you can fight her, and in the end she chokes at the most crucial moment after having nearly doomed the world twice and walks away with no repercussions, having learned nothing.

Lillie on the other hand, while she's basically the main character, has a journey that runs alongside yours. She grows as a character and you are able to witness this growth. She is not hyped up as some hot shit nor a mastermind, she is pretty helpless and an unfortunate player caught in a much bigger scheme than her.

That's why Lillie is tolerable while Zinnia is not.

I want to FUCK lillie!

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>>29992772
L-lewd!

>>29992574
7. People thought Gen 7 would be good after 6 was shit.

>>29992584
>I liked it though
You can like being nobody and someone's slave all you want, that doesn't mean we all share your fetish. Most people like to matter and be the focus of the story.

>>29990772
I liked her.

I wish I could have just handed Nebby off to her. She'd have no problem starting out as a trainer with that as her starter. Nebby going with you kinda just felt like obligatory because you're the player character

>>29992916
I hope we get gym leaders in gen 8 at least

>>29990772
Okay, she's a MASSIVE hit in Japan and is guaranteed to come back in gen 8

What's her team after having become a trainer in Kanto?

>>29991675
DQ is far beyond Gamefreak's level.
Realistically speaking, Gamefreak can't do shit with the protagonist avatar and thus needs to rely on NPCs to tell stories.

>>29992320
I want Lillie to collar me.

>>29993019
I wish they could at least give our avatar a facial expression other than a big fucking goofy smile.
Ruins the mood of any scene in SM that does a close up of your character

>>29993017
>Kanto sequel games
Is it possible?

Her Pokemon will be all the gen MCs minus red. All male of course.

Why didn't they just make Gladion/Lillie the protags of the game?

SuMo really should have been a spin-off, something like Colosseum with Lillie as the playable character.

Plot is great and all, but the railroading was ridiculous,

>>29993332
that's because Lillie was designed from the ground up for maximum waifu appeal.

>>29993289
Its SM you dummy

>>29993379
Yep. Exeggutor Island existed for the sole purpose of making sure the player loved her.

>>29993084
>Kanto 3rd game with a forced MC on Switch as the 'new pokemon mainline game' in first launch year
>you play Lillie
>Arrive in Vermillion city, meet Prof. Oak, get a starter
>A Pikachu follows you and joins you as well
>game is like Colosseum, full on doubles in every battle
>adds a ton of stuff like tutors, PWT/BF ect, adds no new pokemon but acts as a gen 7.5

I'd be down. Nintendo will never do a one protag game again though considering the butthurt that no customization in ORAS caused.

>>29993443
to be fair she spends the entire game following you around being your faithful healslut.

>>29993084
The more I play the more it seems likely that Kanto re-remakes are coming. After you beat the E4, Hau asks how far Kanto is, and your mom says it's close enough to visit it anytime he wants, and then Hau goes on about talking about wanting to fight his father who's on his own adventure.

>>29993498
Almost forgot about that.
I knew there was a reason I liked whenever she appeared.

Though I do wish she'd acknowledge the rest of my team instead of just whatever I had in front at the moment.

>>29993048
What if you find whats going on funny? Then itll fit

>>29993477
ORAS is a remake of the awful 3rd gen games

Why would it carry shit from the same generation 6 games?

There are no contests in HGSS either and they replaced it with Pokelympics and the Battle Tower was scrapped for a Sinnoh Battle Frontier

>>29993017
Identical to her mother's team and she doesn't realize it.

>go to Kanto (again)
>start at Vermilion City
>beat Lt. Surge
>can't go north to Saffron City or the tunnel to Cerulean City
>can't go east because of Snorlax
>enter Diglett Cave and exit at outside Viridian Forest
>arrive at Viridian City and down to Pallet Town and up to Pewter City

How much will the difficulty increase?

>>29990772
Though her story arc was a bit cliched, I thoroughly enjoyed her company whenever she appeared. If Game Freak ever decided to make a mainline Pokemon game with non-blank slate playable characters, I'd see her as one of the possible candidates since she finally becomes a Pokemon trainer at the end of Sun and Moon, thus giving her a good starting point.

Regardless, modders will probably find a way to make her playable at least a month after release.

>>29993626
>implying that our favorite healslut won't have a team of pink cuteblobs with healing moves

Alolomola and Blissey are right up her alley.

>>29993847
Clefable
Lilligant
Mismagius
Milotic
Bewear

Already has 2 pink cutes, a purple cute, and a green cute. Only Milotic isn't cute, and still is girly.

>>29992497
>Elma & Lin: The Video Game
>nobody's complaining
I like Lillie and even I think you're retarded.

>>29993783
They'd change the level scaling for sure but it'd be pretty workable. They could easily make it linear by blocking off Viridian Forest so you can't get to it from Pewter

Vermillion >Diglett's Cave > Pewter > Mt Moon > Cerulean > Rock Tunnel > Lavender > Celadon > Fuschia > Seafoam > Cinnabar > Pallet > Viridian > E4

Saffron City turned into a postgame area, add a new ghost gym in Lavender Town.

>>29994002
Could even make Agatha the ghost gym leader having retired from the E4 with Sabrina taking her place.

>>29994058
She would still be alive 20 years from now?
Or is she a ghost?

>>29994123
They could make it ambiguous. Pokemon characters don't always look their age. She could have been 50-60 in genwun which makes her old but not necessarily dead in 20 years.

>>29994002
>biggest city
>post-game

No

>>29994058
>Gamefreak
>replacing armpit/midriff Sabrina

>>29994206
Wonder how many characters would be replaced. Seems like they would at least keep Janine since she was the replacement one as ninja milf.

>>29992343
She is not a fucking Mary Sue, you retards don't even know what a Mary Sue is anymore.

>>29994303
They'd keep the super iconic ones like Brock, Misty and Surge for sure. Characters like Blaine might be replaced.

I think Will should be dumped from the E4 because he was the most boringest gay character ever. Bring big tits Lorelai back and bust him down to a roaming trainer or maybe some PWT thing.

>>29994588
What if Will turned into a Char clone?

>>29993783
>doubles game

No Pikachu. N should come back and be your buddy until you get a second pokemon.

Lillie+N = guaranteed console sales in Japan.

>>29992321
I personally think it's going to be a remake only thing from now on, so as to give the remakes "new" Pokemon

Only sensical thing I can think of, anyways, as completely dropping it after a gen all about them would be really stupid

>>29990772
but she is the worst character ever made.
ruined the story from the beginning.

>>29994643
It surprises me that N hasn't made a cameo since Gen 5 considering how popular he was. At least Colress is getting some love again, to some extent.

>>29992513
Does this make Kalos the Pokemon eorld equivalent of a country that brags about dog fights?

>>29991367
except that the female character is not canon.

>>29994621
Will already was a Char clone. It's time to become Quattro.

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>>29994807
>caring about what's canon in mainline Pokemon of all things

>>29994859
Billiam is totally a new character and will definitely not betray you and do a counter attack

>>29994303
Pewter = Brock
Cerulean = Misty
Vermillion = Surge
Celadon = Erika
Saffron = Sabrina
Fuchsia = Janine
Cinnabar = a new dude
Viridian = Silver

E4 is Lorelei, Koga, Bruno, Karen and Lance. Will and Agatha are post-game trainers somewhere in the map

Blue is post-game inside the Cerulean Cave

Steven is post-game on top of Mt. Moon

Cynthia is post-game at Cinnabar Island

>>29995162
I'd rather have Sabrina become an E4 member and the Fighting Dojo become the Saffron Gym.

>>29991346
We've had good Pokemon stories without giving another person MC duties before

And yes she is

>>29994002
Biggest city wouldn't be postgame.

Also, you should assume we'll get at least one new town

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>>29995445
>We've had good Pokemon stories
no we haven't lol

>>29995496
Let me guess, you think SM has the first good story in Pokemon games, because all of the lore is spelled out to you and there is even a character to have all the reactions to this lore for you

>>29995366
But Karate King is weak.

>>29995529
No, I think that Pokemon stories are literally just there to make the gameplay make sense and focusing on the story in a Pokemon game is just stupid. SM is full retard in this regard

also there is no "lore" in Pokemon, what are you a Game Theory autist? it's a fucking monster breeding game

>>29995529
not the same guy but
>Gen I: basic, but interesting at the time. From modern standpoint shit.
>II-IV: let me spare everyone's time play reductionist. SHIT.
B&W was where things got more.. involved, at the very least.

>>29995739
>interesting at the time
It really wasn't. Shit like Chrono Trigger was already done before Gen 1. Pokemon has always had a shitty reductionist story that only exists to keep the player moving. Gen 5 tried and failed to reinvent the series and every game since has been another failed attempt at making a good story.

>>29995613
I dont think the stories are amazing, but I dont think it is reaching to at least call them good

except the Gen 6 ones

>>29996092
No, that's definitely reaching. They're an inoffensive waste of time at best and a unnecessary cringefest at worst. Plot is an obstacle to a good Pokemon game.

>>29995613
>also there is no "lore" in Pokemon
I see you, Mozart!

>>29994771
It's probably because he's somewhat disliked in Europe and America, and you know how much Japan loves to suck American cock.

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>>29991675
I have never played any DQ other than 9 but don't you usually have a party of characters that react to stuff and give you direction?
Pokemon is a lonely adventure and you meeting lillie every 5 min is their way of making her a travel companion
>>29992169
So midna from TP

>>29993017
>What's her team after having become a trainer in Kanto?

Ninetales (replace with starter strong to yours)
Vileploom (replace with starter strong to yours)
Lapras (replace with starter strong to yours)
Wigglytuff
Jynx
an eeveelution

>>29993332
Which means doujins and fanart for her. Good. Hopefully the anime will make mallow and Lana popular

Look at Japanese impressions for the game in Twitter. They're all eating it up Lillie super-hard despite being very mixed on Zinnia.

>>29996122
>Plot is an obstacle to a good Pokemon game.

I guess if it were up to you Gen 8 would be a game where the city you start in is 1 giant city made of 20 Battle Frontiers and Gyms connected by Battle Subways and you literally just buy all Pokemon with perfect EVs and IVs and all egg moves from competitive Pokemon breeder NPCs using your fight money and then visit whorehouses where you get to fuck waifus?

>>29996531
yeah sounds great

>>29995925
Shit you're right.

>>29990772
Lillie doesn't act against the player for no reason, she isn't all knowing and knowledgeable about alternate timelines for reason, she doesn't dance like a monkey, she isn't a single dev's mary sue OC that got inserted into the game, and she doesn't put your through retarded tests to save the world when the world was already going to be saved if not for her.

So, no, Zinnia is much worse.

>>29996511
Probably because Lillie's there from the start and we're given time to know her and possibly like her, while Zinnia's shoved in at the end, makes little to no attempt to endear herself to anyone, and does everything wrong

Japan is more accepting of stuff like Lillie being the focus of the story because they just call that kind of girls "the main heroine". They have a lot of stories in which a cool boy (the "protagonist") arrives and uses his abilities to help a cute girl resolve her problems.

I like Zinnia type characters personality and such. I enjoyed Lille but honestly I was a bit turned off after she stopped being all shy and became a kawaii uguu~ moeblob in an instant.

>>29996619
And Lillie is more waifu

>>29995550
It doesn't need to be the 8th gym. What if the Journey begins in Vermilion, Fuchsia or some new city in the eastern part of Kanto?

Saffron being the big city like Castelia and Lumiose would be avaliable early on, with it's Gym as 3rd or 4th.

>>29994859
Sorry if I say something stupid but... You mean b'tx?

Why did people not like Zinnia other than the fact that she was female?

>>29998388
Shit taste and blowing things out of proportion. I didn't play ORAS until just recently and after everything that was said about her I fully expected to hate her but that was not the case in the slightest. She definitely has a few screws loose but who knows why other than some trauma she might have went through.

>>29998388
but Zinnia porn is her only saving grace

>>29998388
>>29998487

You two are retarded if you genuinely believe people hate Zinnia just because of "shit taste" or "she's a girl." This board is waifufag to the extreme and people still hate Zinnia. What does that tell you?

That she's a shit.

>>29998487
Yeah I thought she was a cool character, I like her design, her team, and the fact that she's a dragon trainer with a mysterious whismur

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>>29998356
>Misses obvious Gundam reference
>Somehow still knows obscure shit like B't X
Color me impressed.

>>29990772
She didnt come with a bullshit plan that almost killed everyone

>>29998533
There's a lot of people here who like her, probably for those exact reasons.
It's the Japanese fans who have obsessive hatred for Zinnia. In part due to they already hating the guy who created her and wrote Delta Episode, for he also worked in the remake of some other game and ruined it with his donut steel character who is very similar to Zinnia, from what I'm told. It's that faggot's waifu or something.

That along with the fact despite all the crazy and assholish shit she does the game fully expects you to side with Zinnia and think she is justified in everything. She also vastly diminishes team Aqua and Magma's villain status by being directly responsible for their rise.

>>29998388
she was introduced near the very end and suddenly became the main character, she was also a stupid bitch

Basically the Poochy of Pokemon ORAS.

>>29998668
What do you mean by main character? The fact that she had a backstory and served as a vehicle for exposition?

What, would you have preferred that YOUR character be from a lineage of dragon trainers suddenly? Give me a break.

>>29998653
Don't forget that she was a bitch towards their favorite RSE character Steven.

>>29998653
Give deets please. This sounds interesting.

>>29998819

She literally hijacked the entire story of the game. And not just the Delta Episode, but the whole fucking game. Archie and Maxie didn't even come up with their own plans, they were manipulated into following Zinnia's plan. It was all Zinnia, all along.

Then she gets off scot-free for that to do another world-ending plan and everybody has to dance to her tune once again. And for nearly ending the world twice she just gets off with no punishment or even an apology.

She's a total bullshit character.

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>>29990772
She doesn't destroy everyone's hope in front of them and calling them retarded faggots without explaining why she's right and they're wrong, or almost destroying the world through flooding/drought, and then knock out the MC for no goddamn reason at all.

>>29998819
She is the main character of the Delta Episode. She is the cause for the story's main problem, she appears in every major scene, she is the only trainer battle, and she is the one who comes up with the plan to solve the problem. The whole thing is just The Zinnia Episode. She does everything and you follow her around. She is the MC.

>>29998819
I'm not that anon, but you can't really deny that once Zinnia enters the stage, the entire plot revolves around her and reveals that she was the one behind pretty much the entire pre-E4 story as well. You're just an observer with front row seats and a ticket to mr fug's wild ride in space.

>>29998876
>>29998933
>>29998949
I'm not really sure what the problem is, though, considering the alternatives

But maybe we should agree to disagree, because this forum has already indoctrinated people into hating oras

>>29999042

The alternative would be to not have the Delta Episode or rewrite it so Zinnia is less obnoxious and powerful. Maybe make Zinnia have a presence throughout the game so she doesn't just fucking seem to appear out of nowhere. Maybe not have her declare IT WAS ALL ME, EVERYTHING, ALL OF IT, THE WHOLE PLOT.

You are a real shithead, you act like Zinnia's fine because YOU think she's fine, and that everyone is hating on her as a meme. In reality people hate on Zinnia because she's a badly written character, and this is backed up with actual reasons. You don't have reasons. All you have is "well she was OK to me."

>>29999042
>I'm not really sure what the problem is, though, considering the alternatives

What alternative, not introducing a mary sue for no reason that hijacks the plot? Sounds good to me

>>29999119
>not have the Delta Episode

problem solved

>>29998926
>zinnia will never knock you out and bring you to her sex dungeon
why live honestly

>>29999119
Yeah, but Zinnia sucks at being a force.

>>29999042
I legitimately loved ORAS and found it the most enjoyable Pokémon game I have played. I have played every generation.

Zinnia comes in out of left field, is quickly revealed to be the driving force behind everything in the game, and the absolute main character of the plot come Delta Episode. You really just observe. I have no terribly strong feelings on the matter by the way. I can understand why people hate her, though. Total Mary-Sue.

Lillie Episode DLC when?

>>29999042
>this forum has already indoctrinated people into hating oras
I fucking hate when Hoennbabbies think people disliking their games is a meme. ORAS had a lot of issues that definitely hold it down. It certainly has good parts, but the negatives heavily outweigh the positives of ORAS

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>>29999119
So this is something along the lines of "Zinnia Imagines it!" ?