> SLOW AND PHYSICALLY FRAIL Ugh, what were they thinking?

>>29795995
It got cucked by Tapu Fini.

>>29795995
That's why you get a Milotic

>>29796014
Just like decidueye got cucked by dhelmise.

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Milotic wins again.

>>29795995
can't wait for all that shemale primerina and milotic porn

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It'll find its niche somewhere. I'm using it anyway.

>>29796541
>Still no fairy type
>Gamefreak couldn't put them on the same group and pass recover to prima
>no good coverage moves for milotic
>badly spread stats
Fucking shame, i like both, and they got nothing good from gamefreak this gen.

>>29796631
Didn't mean to quote, but it is done.

>>29796014
Tapu Fini can't burn grounded Pokemon with Scald, tho.

>>29795995
>PHYSICALLY FRAIL

So?
Tank hits off of it's good Sp defensive stat instead of keeping it in for gunk shot like a retard

>>29795995
Does any SuMo pokemon get shit on as much as Primarina? Because I swear it gets more hate than anything else for some reason.

>>29796541
Primarina is prettier

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>>29795995

>Shitty Typing
>Ass stat spread
>Slow mixed and frail
>Outclassed by an anchor
>Literally dies to sunkern

It's no fair Decidueyebros, we were supposed to be the best!

Both Primaria and Milotic are noodles in my eye

>>29796760
>ugly seal in drag is prettier

In your dreams fag

>>29796631
Primarina has a much shittier stat spread. Funny considering Milotic only gets an extra 5 BST.

Its recovery, abilities and movepool are better. It wins.

>>29796760
People were expecting it to have a clown or strongman theme. When Brionne confirmed the feminine aspect, they had a meltdown.

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>>29796842
Yes, stay analgaped.

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>>29796853
126 Sp atk is not bad though.

>>29796876
Why is she so perfect?

>>29795995
Gardevoir isn't bad though. It saw a lot of use in VGC 2015, mostly Scarf sets. Primarina obviously won't go that route, seeing as it's base 40 speed, but since Trick Room is definitely going to see some use this season, it could be useful for STAB Dazzling Gleams and Hyper Voices while abusing it's resistances and decent Sp. Def.

>>29796667
>252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 205-242 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Its garbage. Frailer and weaker than Sylveon too. Outclassed by Gardevoir as a Scarf user. Its going to be RU at best

>>29796842
You realize that Milotic can be male too, right?

>>29796854
I dunno, it seems like more than that. People are downright rabid in their hate of it, even compared to the other starters with their stats. Feels like this hate goes a bit beyond the normal.

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>>29796939
>putting an animal in drag

so bootiful

>>29796660
>Hidden ability

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>>29796912
0 SpA Charmander Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 158-188 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>29796992
Take your tard rage elsewhere.

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29796992
Holy shit, is this pasta?

>>29795995
That's pretty hot. Sauce?

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>mfw all the starters are RU or lower

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>>29797087
>mfw

>>29796912
Garde doesn't have a 90 x 1.3 x 1.5 move that goes through sub though. Reminder that only mega garde has pixelate, normal one has trace or synchronize.

>>29797087
>implying
Incineroar is UU at worst, maybe even lower OU.

>>29797108
>implying substitute makes Liquid Voice not useless

>>29797108
Did anyone ever find out if Liquid Voice gives the same boost as the -ate abilities?

>>29797134
The description of the ability doesn't mention powering them up, so I'd assume that it doesn't.

>>29797134
It's confirmed not to. All the -ate abilities now have it in their descriptions. Liquid Voice doesn't.

>>29797108
>>29797134
It doesn't. It's useless aside from going through Gliscor's sub.

>>29797154
You have no proof, unless you show me now. AFAIK, it just doesn't mention the boost, and so does pixilate( unless it was nerfed too).

>>29797154
It's not earth-shattering, but it's not useless, either. In doubles (i.e. the meta GF actually cares about) hyper voice turns into a surf that doesn't hit your teammate, which is kinda nice.

>>29797202
It's in the data leak. All the -ate descriptions, including PIxilate, state that the moves power is boosted a bit. Liquid Voice doesn't say that. Unless you think they fucked up again and didn't add that, it is confirmed. And I doubt they'd fuck that up since they made sure the others mentioned it.

>>29797234
Oh, i see.
What a shame, it had some potential, but GF fucked it up fir sine reason. Well, it is not like i liked trans seal and wanted to play UU with it or anything.
:^(

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>>29796912
>0 SpA Charmander Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 158-188 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>0+ Atk Gible Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 135-159 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
>0 SpA Vanillite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 138-164 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO
>0 Atk Pancham Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 139-165 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO
>0 Atk Cranidos Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 166-196 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>0 Atk Pawniard Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 156-186 (52.5 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>0 Atk Pidgey Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 176-210 (59.2 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You call THAT garbage? This is garbage.

>>29797300
Yeah they really fucked over Primarina worse than the other two imo, not in the stat distribution so much as the things they designed specifically for it. They gave it a Smelling Salts that doesn't do any extra damage and a Pixilate that doesn't give a damage bonus.

I mean how do you give a pokemon two different versions of older moves/abilities but actively remove what made them useful? I don't know about being a conspiracy nut but that almost seems intentional. And I can't see how anyone thought removing those things would be better, so I kind of wonder if they did that to make it worse for some reason?

>>29797411
I mean, considering 90% of this gen's pokemons are RU level at best, it doesn't seen too farfetched to think that they tried to make some mons bad, considering that, for example, primarina needed to be toned down a bit more somehow due to it's good typing. It may be possible that they are trying to reverse the power creep too, due to some of the nerfs, and they are trying to create a new one with this gen's pokemon.

>>29796765
Can't be outclassed by something that has no moves

>>29797553
It can when the outclassed pokemon in question has literally the worst stat spread ever.

>>29797512
I don't see how they could have thought Primarina needed to be toned down enough to make it's Ability nearly useless. It can't be that they think it's typing is too good, because fucking Azumarril gets Huge Power and Sap Sipper. There aren't even that many sound-based moves to begin with, so it's practically only use is Hyper Voice and maybe Echoed Voice. I just can't see any reason for it at all beyond "We don't want it to have a useful ability."

>>29797132
Of course OU, with such a speed stat and lack of either Knock Off, Pursuit or Sucker Punch. It might see some play in Doubles thanks to Fake Out and Intimidate, that's it.

>>29797694
I don't see how they could have thought Decidueye needed to be toned down enough to make it's stats nearly useless. It can't be that they think it's typing is too good, because fucking Dhelmise gets 3 STABS and a signature trapping move too. There aren't even that many good contact moves in Decidueye's movepool to begin with, so it's practically only use is Sucker Punch and Brave Bird. I just can't see any reason for it at all beyond "We don't want it to be useful at all."

>>29797694
Well, azumarill is OU, and it had access to Huge power before they decided they needed to tone down the new pokemons. If primarina had a proper ability,she wpuld have been at least top tier on RU. Give her recovery and boomburst, who knows where would she be? The point is, they had no option if they wanted to make a average mon.
Yeah, the ability is completely stupid, it is an -ate move without the boost and with every normal move(and disarming voice), but the decidueye got a pretty mediocre one too( better than primarina's, but still average), so it is not a isolated case of "this pokemon is too good'' since owl's typing isn't good, it is more that they are making pokemons more mediocre, with minor exceptions(salazzle, UBs, Topus, etc.).

>>29797778
>It might see some play in Doubles thanks to Fake Out and Intimidate, that's it.
Don't forget Snarl

>>29797132
>worse Arcanine
>OU
I want you delusional Incineroarfags to leave. At least the other two camps accepted that they're trash but you're still delusional.

>>29796502
True, but Decidueye at least has something going for him, being faster and learning Sucker Punch. Primarina is basically a shit version of Tapu Fini.

>>29798136
>Primarinafags insisting their starter will be OU because of its typing despite not having recovery
>Decidueyefags clinging to Shacklepass for hope

Let's not get biased here bud

>>29798366
Primarina hits harder than Tapu Fini and can actually burn targets, but that doesn't make it better; Just like the fact Decidueye hits like a wet noodle and it's not intimidating at all with those offensive/defensive stats.

>>29798366
10 points higher speed doesn't mean as much as Primarina's higher specials and essentially equal HP/Def. Also Scald. And I could just as well say Decidueye is basically a shit version of Dhelmise.

Not saying Primarina is great because it sure as shit isn't, but neither is Decidueye.

>>29798371
I haven't seen any Primarinfags claiming it's gonna be OU. Seems the argument is more that it'll be UU vs. PU like others are claiming.

>>29798445
I think Primarina has potential to become OU. BL if anything. Azumarill has fuck all speed and defense like Primarina, no recovery, but it still wrecks house. Primarina has the stats, the typing, and the coverage. It has a chance. It's probably going to get utterly cucked by Finni though.

jesus fucking christ stop replying to delusional owlfags

all starters are disappointing, but the owl is the worst bar none

>>29798366

>A shit version of a pokemon that has a completely different role in combat

Man, you owlfags are fucking delusional.

>>29798371

Most people put Primarina in UU.

>>29798371

The only people that are still claiming OU for any of these starters have been catfags and owlfags.

>>29798478
IDK man, huge power makes it super strong, and it has access to aqua jet and super power. I don't primarina coming close to azumarill anytime soon.

>>29798478
I don't see it being OU. As you said, Fini exists, even though Fini isn't actually THAT great either. It also doesn't fill the exact same role either though, especially since it can't use Scald against most opponents.

But otherwise, Primarina just doesn't have the bulk, which combined with it's lack of recovery means it can't stay in for too long. It has some possible niche as a specs user, probably with Echoed Voice, but I'd be more inclined to believe it needs a more standard recovery build. Might be a bit better in doubles where Liquid Voice might have some sort of use at least. Still wouldn't put it higher than mid-UU at best.

>>29798482
(You)

>>29798478

Nah, mid tier UU.

I missed last night. Are all the starters garbage? That's a shame. I thought I read something about this gen being slow. Did everything get slowed down or are this gen's pokemon slow?

>>29798478

Primarina has more offensive options than Fini. Hits harder too. They are meant to play different roles.

>>29798598
They're definitely all crippled in some way. Incineroar has low speed and a lack of several key moves. Primarina has less bulk than it should and an Ability that has no use except for maybe in doubles. Decidueye's stats in general are just a mess.

And yeah, almost all of the new pokemon are slow. There were some other changes to a few pokemon and moves, most notably Talonflame and Gengar, who got nerfed hard.

>>29798583
but it's not even bait.
i am completely right and every time you owlfag fucks get blown the fuck out in one thread you go ahead and make a new thread pretending the last convo never even happened

mediocre movepool, terrible typing, wasted mixed stats and a next to pointless hidden ability. it's never going to accomplish anything of note

meanwhile incineroar has a slightly lacking movepool but decent stats and a great HA, and primarina has a god-tier typing, enough moves to deal with threats and good specially oriented stats, albeit with a pointless HA and signature move.

neither of them will be in the top tiers, but it's clear to anyone with a functioning brain that the owl is worse than the cat and seal

>>29798598
Both as a matter of fact. Framerate dips during doubles battles and certain cutscenes, AND the average Speed stat among the new Pokemon is only like 60. I think GF is trying to slow down the power creep.

>>29798578
If it's going to use any water move, it'll probably be Hydro Pump to break through stuff. Echoed Voice is just a meme.

>>29797132
>inceroar in OU
i literally laughed out loud, /vp/ is so bad at competitive it's truly amusing

>>29798598

They are not great. Depending on creativity, they will find niches in UU. More so primarina and incineroar than decidueye.

Also, their rankings would shuffle depending if you are talking double or singles.

Some people see incineroar getting more use in doubles. I feel primarina has moves that would help it a lot there too, but it is tbd.

>>29798650
Eh, was just pointing out it's a possible niche people have mentioned. I'm not really on board with it either. Also I'm personally not big on it with Hydro Pump just because of the shaky accuracy, and Primarina doesn't want to be potentially wasting moes. It's special attack is high enough that it can still do decent damage with Scald, and getting the burn off would help it a lot if a physical attacker switched in.

>>29798684

Yeah, if you want to hit hard with Prima, you have moves than Hydro Pump.

Primarina in general has a lot of moves that have 100% hit rate for decent damage.

>>29798371
I see sporadically still inane owl and sealfags, more owl than seal probably, but you fucks take definitely the cake. The only thing you seemingly want to settle for is high UU when he's literally worse than Arcanine who hasn't been doing overly good their either in the past few years.
>B-but muh better bulk
Fire up that Leech Life then, you're gonna need it with those few points more.

>>29798717
Yeah I'd say catfags are the biggest ones pushing it as really good, followed by owlfags. Sealfags are definitely on the defensive the most, followed by owlfags.

>>29796977
doesn't have one

>>29798812

It has one, meant for doubles. Its not as bad as vg has made it out to be.

There are better moves in the pool.

>>29798684
It helps out in some cases. Like Hydro Pump 2HKOs Florges, Cresselia, Sylveon while Scald struggles against them.

>>29798840
tapu fini does not have a hidden ability no

>>29798672
- Incineroar is trash. Stop being in denial.

- Primarina has nothing that stands out over other Bulky Water/Fairy types, and even miss Wish or Heal Bell to support its team.

- Decidueye is the only one who might "suceed" thanks to its defensive options (Defog and Roost mainly), and might see some gimmicks thanks to Spirit Shackle and Z-Curse, which refill your whole health before using the move.

>>29798717
Yeah, definitely biased. I never even claimed Incineroar was going to be good, yet you accuse me of being one of "those fucks". Where did the Catfags touch you anon?

All the shitposters are really all the same.

>>29798855

Oh, sorry, misread the chain, though we were talking about the seal.

>>29798858

Owlfag is back, everybody.

>>29798881
All shitposters are the same but they vary in proportion to the fans and to some degree how much they go on the offensive. Back a few days ago Decidueye had the most shitposters, and guess what? That was because it was by far the most popular.

>>29798881
You accused me of being biased because I told a delusional Tigerfag that he's retarded. I'm just telling you how I experienced the last few days on this board and Incineroarfags feel definitely like the ones who are still more in denial than the other two.
I called all three shit but you had to come out and protect your tigerbuddies, excuse me when I think you're a catfag then and before you bait any harder with my apparent bias against Incineroar, I like all three of them but I'm sick and tired of all of you fags still fighting your little starter war when all three are garbage in competitive. At this point it's like bragging about narrowly winning the special olympics.

>>29795995
Does his hidden ability boost 30% like pixilate or is just useless?

>>29798920
Well most of vp dont even know how to play this game

I think azumarill is still water fairy king
Tapu fini doesn't seem that good but its better then primarina

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>>29797132
>Incineroar is UU at worst, maybe even lower OU
ayylmao the delusional catfags

>>29798957
It doesn't. The only use it possibly has is in doubles as a surf that doesn't hit your other pokemon.

>>29798983
They had one job, they could have made a sound-water-ate to make the starter useful, but no, they needed all the Aloladex to be utterly useless for some reason

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>>29798920
>My limited perception of how things are is an accurate representation of reality

>>29798959

Tapu Fini doesn't hit for shit. It is not better than primarina. Its a support healer. The seal is a special attacker.

>>29798996
It makes me sad because it smashes through stuff with Hydro Pump. Other water types? Hold this 126 special attack Energy Ball. Grass types? Ice Beam. At this point I'd even take Agility for SubPetaya Empoleon strategies with Torrent.

>>29796959
>making a comparison this retarded

(You)

>>29799041
Slow and frail special attacker that is not slow enough for TR

>>29798445
Decidueye has the option to run a Scarfed set. It won won't be great, but can outspeed quite a few Pokemon. Plus it has Baton Pass for support. It's HA, although gimmicky, can be put to good use. It won't be great, maybe UU at best, but it has some use.

Primarina, however, only has a bit higher Special Attack. That's it. There's really nothing else going for it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. GameFreak balances mons with a 'give and take' mentality.

They gave it Water/Fairy typing, so they had to take away the power boost from its signature move to balance it. They gave it the highest special attack stat of all starters, so they took away the power boost of its ability. It got Moonblast instead of a high defense stat, etc.

>>29799223
So in other words, they're retarded?

>>29799104
Base 70 is not frail base 60 and lower is frail like cacturne and shiftry

>>29799274

He consistently ignores the type advantage and special defense.

>>29799271
You are just realizing this now?

How are people doing calculations with the Showdown calculator when Sun and Moon Pokemon aren't even on it?

>>29796912
Tell me why you are runing 4 Def on primarina? You know you don't need to max out two stats right?

>>29799606
Use any random pokemon and change type and stat to what you want.

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>tfw I've been defending Primarina for months and then Game Freak literally go out of their way to sabotage it for battle

>>29798945
>>29798945
>You accused me of being biased because I told a delusional Tigerfag that he's retarded. I'm just telling you how I experienced the last few days on this board and Incineroarfags feel definitely like the ones who are still more in denial than the other two.
Okay, fair enough.

You seem really affected by this though anon. Stay off the internet for a while and relax.

>>29799752

It is literally the best of the starters. The movepool with a lot of coverage, it hits like a truck, has decent hp with high sp. Defense, and great typing.

Invest in its HP so it can tank a little better and it will wipe a lot of mons with its offense.

>>29795995
At least Gardevoir can use Z-ally switch and buff its speed.

>>29799752
It has less HP than the fucking cat. Makes no god damn sense.

>>29800023
Prim can do that with encore and actually achieve something at the same time. Still a waste when you could be using porygon-z's conversion though.

>>29799752
Same for decidueye

>>29800070
>It has less HP than the fucking cat. Makes no god damn sense.

I'm reminded of that one anon that said it makes no sense for a mermaid to hit harder than a wrestler.

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>>29800390

I don't know why people try to use a Pokemon's design to predict its stats when a skinny cat thing like Umbreon has some of the best defenses a Pokemon can have. It was even an argument denialfags tried to use to say the starter evolutions were fake.

>>29800875
>denialfags
that was a fun ordeal
I remember how people said the owl wasn't real because it was too skinny and rowlet had too high HP which meant it would become fat, and how incineroar had no chance because litten was fast

>>29800898

Lel

>>29799752

If it makes you feel better, it looks like the majority of the Alola Pokemon got screwed in this department in one way or another. That being said, I hope people take a slice of humble pie from this and realize not to talk trash until we have all information on new Pokemon. Tigerfags who were bragging about speed truly got BTFO. But this is /vp/. Who am I kidding?

>>29798970
to be fair, it will never be worse than UU.
it's already much better than firepig
dark lariat is great.

>>29801365
The only mons using bulk up will be fighting types, dark types with fighting coverage, and snorlax.
The only mon that will use Cosmic Power is SIgilyph. Whatever tier sigilyph ends up in is gonna be the tier Incineroar shows up

>>29796014
Tapu Fini doesn't have the same big ass Special Attack. That's almost like comparing both of them with Azumarill.

>>29797360
Anon you know he can't get hurt by pancham's superpower, right?

>>29801538

Dude, they have compared Primarina to Azumarill.

They have compared it to EVERYTHING with even remotely the same types, despite it doesn't compete with any of those mons for a niche.

They are that fucking desperate.

>>29801811
I guarantee you they are the same people who said the only people who want Primarina to be real are people who want to fuck it back in June.

>>29801538
And I acknowledged its special attack.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming Primarina is weak. It'll likely be too good for UU. I'm just saying it won't see much usage, since Tapu Fini does everything better. It might get in BL, but it's almost guaranteed that it won't be OU.

>>29801811
Get fucked.

>>29796541
>>29796466
#justice4megamilotic

>>29801938

Tapu Fini doesn't do what it does better. It has recovery, but even less health than Prima. And can't deal as much damage.

>>29802065
Fini doesn't get recovery. Hell, it can't even use Rest.

Call me crazy, but people actually run Leech Life Incineroar.

It won't be amazing, but it'll be better than people expect

>>29796606
What a terrible drawing.

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"I picked Primarina for the stats!"
said no one ever.

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>>29796842

>>29802202
Seems kinda ass though. What's it gonna replace out of Flare Blitz, Darkest Lariat, Cross Chop and Earthquake?

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Where were you when Primarina ended up with the best Z-Move?

https://youtu.be/ZrATSvER9TY?t=1m55s

>>29802351
I don't even get how these work. I have the normal and fighting type z crystal things...does this let Primarina do her z-move ? or am I supposed to wait for the water z crystal ? (or is it the fairy one she uses?) shit man idk.

Also the only way for them to use the z move is if they use up their held item slot with the z item? so this shit is never going to fly in competitive since you'd waste your item slot ?

>>29802082
Not only that, Fini doesn't have as much coverage and can't even status shit with scald/toxic because of its own fucking ability. I guess you could always run its hidden ability... Telepathy... It does get calm mind though, which is actually pretty nice.

>>29802392
Nope.
Primarium Z

>>29802271
for what it's worth, i think it's stats are the best out of the three starters

which really isnt saying much

>>29802351
If Primarinafags try hard enough, maybe they can meme magic Boomburst Primarina into existence.

If the anon who kept calling Popplio female could manage it, so can you lot.

>>29802392
There are some pokemon specific Z-moves/crystals.

As for competitive, Protect only blocks 75% of the damage of offensive Z-moves and status Z-moves are apparently pretty good . (Splash gives +3 attack, Protect also gets Focus Energy's effect, Destiny Bond gets Follow Me's effect, etc).

>>29802445
I kinda want to try. I didn't believe in meme magic, but I need the power of water Boomburst.

>>29801640
You're aware that Pancham has access to scrappy, right?

>>29802563
Maybe the move tutor will teach it Boomburst and a decent recovery next gen. Those two things would really help it quite a bit. I wouldn't count on it though, because GF probably thinks Boomburst would make it overpowered.

>>29802863
Honestly, even just a buff to the HA to work like the -ate abilities would be nice. Hydro Pump already does good damage, and it has coverage to beat other water types.

>>29802893
How often has GF buffed an ability again? Because either it's ability needs to be buffed or it needs Boomburst, and I doubt the former would happen since they essentially designed it as a shitty -ate to begin with.

>>29798482
I think the cat is by far the worse of them all.

The fuck were they thinking by not giving it Sucker Punch at the very fucking least? Why give it to the Grass owl?

>>29798509
Yeah a role that actually hurts Primarina's stance in the metagame (no scald abuse)

And then there are other two Tapus that are also bad news to Primarina.

>>29802974
There was the Sturdy buff in gen 5. Lightning Rod and Storm Drain got buffed to absorb the type they draw to them for a stat boost.

>>29802351
incineroar's is by far the funniest one in my opinion. I don't even like that Pokemon

>>29802336
I'd replace Cross Chop for it personally, just for recovery

>>29803063

You wake up every morning thinking what retarded argument I can come up with next?

None of the Tapus threatens Primarina's role.