Ok guys, so we know VGC'17 is gonna be Alolans only. We

>>29435594
Tapu Psychic everywhere. And then the other Tapu to override Psychic Terrain.

>>29435698
I was talking about old Pokemon

What makes you so sure tapu won't suck?

>>29435594
Garchomp and Salamence will most likely be on every team, same with the Tapus. Smeargle will also be very common, even if it doesn't have access to Dark Void for the time being. It has a new tool inder the form of Instruct and maybe some other new stuff.

We all know what Talonflame is notorious for. Braviary might also be solid with Rock Slide. Same goes with Aerodactyl.

Prankster shenanigans from stuff like Whimsicott and Sableye.

It's hard to say but there are a lot of old Pokemon that already have some reputation in VGC, so going with stuff we're already familiar with is an option.

>>29435724
Auto terrains + likely 580 BSTbecause they're lesser legendaries. Plus these gave the only good terrains to Koko and the squid.

We don't know what Fiery Terrain or Ghost Terrain will be like though, but considering Psychic Terrain stops priority we can assume they'll be designed to counter some big VGC threats.

>>29435594
Completely ignoring the new Pokemon which you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to consider since we literally know nothing.

You can bet we'll see...

-Rain will be ever present, plenty of abusers to work with Politoed.
-Sun may occasionally crop up but not many standout possible users of it.
-Talonflame for Bravest Bird which face it even with anti-priority is still potent as fuck.
-Clefable/Clefairy because it's the only redirection available in the whole dex and Evolite Clefairy's antics have been proven at high level competitive before.
-Gengar will be everywhere because it's Gengar and because Tapu's even if they are shit will become flavour of the month, Gengar rips through every single one.
-Salamence is going to be also super common because it's the only decent Intimidate support besides Gyarados. If Milotic becomes popular than I can see Gyarados becoming the preferred Intimidator.
-Garchomp. Nuff said.

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>>29435816
>considering Psychic Terrain stops priority we can assume they'll be designed to counter some big VGC threats.
???

Also forgot Metagross will probably show quite a bit being one of the best anti-Fairy mons and just all round useful.

>>29435856
One of the new moves plucked out of the demo was Psychic Terrain which for all grounded Pokemon boosts all Psychic attacks by 50% and makes them immune to priority.

Everyone just seems to assume we'll get a Tapu variation which will have a ability to auto set it like Tapu Koko has for Elec.

>>29435594
I'm fairly sure Tapus are going to play huge role, I'm actually going to take a big look at what's allowed and post some more thoughts here.

>>29435856
Zygarde got cucked so hard he died

>Gimmick shit ability

>Perfect forme is just a zen mode shit transformation when low on health

>Hyped the fuck up only to be zen mode clone

The Perfect forme should be independent and with an actual ability too.

>>29435594
Terrain teams, gonna build my own Electric terrain team and use it.

Yes because we don't know COMMON Stats across types or common trends across lesser legendaries right dingus?

Jeez you have to be stupid NOT to look at what each type are known for and compare it with each design.

And guys seriously think about it. If Terrain and Rain still stack like Rain and Trick Room do. You literally are gonna have Tapu Koko + Politoed teams doing shit tons of damage, same with Tapu Fire or Tapu Psychic with Tyranitar, and maybe like Tapu Psychic or Ghost for the other too kinds of weather. Either way, it's scary as hell and gonna be the new Primal Kyorge + Rayquaza. Cause you have mons literally like Genies or Muskeeteers level with good abilities good typings and probably good stats. Tapu Koko + Alolan Raichu + Politoed + Tapu Psychic or Tsareena is gonna be scary as balls, and if you Aid Multiscale Special Dragonite and whatever else you have god tier coverage.

And that's the funny part we don't know, what if gamefreak gives Alolan Ninetales Snow Warning like they should since O-Ninetales got Drought as HA? What if Sandslash get's finally Snow Rush or whatever you call it? Etc as since we don't know it's still a scary place indeed. But as soon stats drop since I can't technically play I'm fucking crafting like new set after new set and posting them all on a site other than smogon just to fuck with people. Will they be BT? Fuck no, I'll put at the time "tweak if necessary." And once hopefully people start using them and I see common trends I'm using the antithesis team to be kicking some ass.

>>29435594
>>29436145
Some information and thoughts:

-Fake out Pokemons by speed BST: 125-Weavile, 115-Persian, 110-Raichu, 90-Kangaskhan, 75-Smeargle, 50-Hariyama, 50-Sableye.

Weavile and Raichu are going to be the best options for Fake out for sure and I'd imagine Hariyama being a choice for some trick room teams, not sure about the others.

-Rage Powder/Follow Me: Clefairy/Clefable, Parasect, Ariados, Morelul Evo maybe.

Clefairy/Clefable looks like the best choice atm. we'll see though if Moreluls evo is going to have it and if its gonna have good stats/movepool.

-Intimidate: Gyarados, Granbull, Salamence, Krookodile, Stoutland, Tauros.

Many options when it comes to typing, we are likely going to see a lot of Salamence for sure.

-Auto Weathers: Rain @Politoed. Swift Swim: Poliwrath, Golduck, Seaking, Carracosta.

So only one basic auto-weather in a form of Rain and this time around we don't have Kingdra or Ludicolo which is really interesting, If there is going to be strong Fire-type Pokemons around then Metagross etc. fire-type weak Pokemons could take an advantage of the undisrupted weather to cover their weakness, also something like Rain + Electric Terrain + Thunder could be pretty devastating.

-Auto Terrains: Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Fairy/Misty Terrain(?), Fire Terrain (?)

Well there is Raichu + Tapu Koko and you guys know already, its just going to be relevant for sure.
Misty Terrain that we also already had, it blocks every status for grounded Pokemon and halves Dragon type Attacks, it could be useful too for sure if the Fairy Koko itself is good.
And the new one, Psychic Terrain, blocks priority and boosts Psychic-type moves, priority block is huge and boost to Psychic-type moves is interesting, if Psychic-Tapu learns Trick room then that's just going to make it really interesting, we might very well have Terrain wars instead of Weather wars, cool.

...to be continued in the next post since this shit is getting long.

>>29437549

-Trick room setters: Hypno, Slowbro, Alolan Exceggcutor? Not sure if it will keep it since it drops the Psychic-typing, Porygon 2, Alakazam, Gengar, Misdreavus, Carbink, Trevenant, Psychic Tapu(?), Palossand (?) and the most interesting one if its gonna have it aka Oranguru

Many options for sure, the real question here is if any of the new Pokemons are going to get it, if they don't then Slowbro, Porygon 2 and Misdreavus seems like the top choices.

-Big old threats: Garchomp, Gengar, Salamence, Scizor, Metagross, Arcanine, Weavile, Talonflame.

I'd say even without new Pokemons this meta would be pretty interesting, but the new Pokemons are just going to make it really really interesting, I think its extremely balanced compared to previous meta games, I'd say even way more balanced than X/Y meta.

There is some stuff I could go trough but I'm getting too tired, hoping to see some discussion for now.

All Tsareena and Tapu Psycho have to do is exist to ward off priority

>>29437549
Arcanine gets intimidate and further utility with snarl.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spoilers-early-vgc-2017-interesting-pokemon.3585002/

List of staples like redirection, intimidate and the such

>>29435594
>Ok guys, so we know VGC'17 is gonna be Alolans only

We dont know if Alola dex is the only thing that is in the game. Post game might have plenty more mons

>>29438006
>Post game might have plenty more mons
And? They will still not be in the AlolaDex meaning they will be ineligible for VGC17

>>29438006
Post game isn't part of the regional dex, eg. in XY Friend Safari mons were not allowed in 2014

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Who's ready for Tapus of Healthy Terrain?

>>29435594
top tier
garchomp, salamence, clefable, metagross, smeargle, slowbro, talonflame, probably the tapus, whichever starter they give the retarded hidden ability to

high tier
weavile, gengar, crobat, whimsicott, sableye, politoed, aerodactyl, sylveon, raichu A, probably pikpek 3/wimpod2/kommo-o/silvalley, MAYBE Ninetails A/passimian (there aren't a lot of good abilities to pass without any huge/pure power users in the meta)

situational
gastrodon, porygon2, arcanine, dragonite, probably morelull2/anchorbro, archeops, probably comfey/eviolite type null/ bruxish/ferrothorn clone waifu/oricorio

>>29435594
I can see a lot of Politoed/Topu Koko in doubles. Instant perfect accuracy Thunder boosted by Electric Terrain. Maybe A-Raichu could work with them if it gains enough speed.

>>29438090
It's legit going to be a healthy meta even if Tapus have 580/600bst.

>>29435594
This is going to be a Tapu meta. Terrain battle everywhere

>>29438488
Yep and that's very interesting, basically no cancer stuff like status or megas or genies, what else can you ask for.

>>29439587
>basically no cancer stuff like status or megas or genies, what else can you ask for.
Like if you people won't be bitching about the Tapus 2 weeks in. Happens every single time.

>This will be the best new meta ever!
>Oh no! This meta is shit!

>>29439621
X/Y meta was great even with cancer like M-Kanga, this one is similar but without megas and with a lot interesting stuff, surely some scrubs are gonna bitch like always, I won't though.

>>29435594
Z-moves are far more powerful elemental gems. A 140 BP move with gen 5 elemental gem does the same damage as a Z-Move that use 130 BP as it base.

Now the only thing that remains is Z-moves are double targeting or single target, or they are based on the move being able to hit multiple opponents. Z crystals have limits though. Can't proc unburden, only one time use per battle.

Example, Salamence can use a dragon Z-move that hits for 210 BP (315 BP STAB), and still have a free draco meteor to hit before losing the Sp.attk drop. Where as draco meteor under elemental gem hit the same but after that you had to deal with drop in special attack.

>>29441022
To go further. Z-moves will do more damage than a gen 5 boosted elemental gem, it's just you don't get the effect of what ever pokemon move it's based on.

A bit off topic but I was curious

Can they potentially add more legendaries to SM over time?

Or is what we datamined and saw what we get?

>>29441116
>it's just you don't get the effect of what ever pokemon move it's based on.
We don't really know how it works yet for sure though.

>>29441022
>>29441116
I can't wait for VGC17. Glorious Draco Gem Latios Draco Meteor Spam is gonna be back even stronger! It's like It'll be like playing VGC12 and 13!

>>29444156
>17
I mean 18. Fuck.