http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2 016-10-19-pokemon-boss-e

>>29293797

Shitmons getting Z moves doesn't help them because good mons get them too.

Mega Evolution is a retarded mechanic anyways. I would be happy if it was removed, but no more new megastones is cool too.

>>29293797
>instead of rebalancing, here's an OP attack for everyone
>oh, but some favorites still get unique Z moves :^)

Then why do some Pokémon get unique Z-moves?

>>29293898
They already nerfed mega kangs parental bond and removed power up punch as a tm.

>>29293889
Lucario, Garchomp, Metagross, and Rayquaza got Mega's so what's your point?

>>29293889
Neither did Mega evos, which kept the metagame narrow. I have hope that this will widen things a bit.

How do Z moves help weaker Pokemon though? You're still going to want to use a strong Pokemon over a weak one to use the same Z move.

Giving Kangaskhan a Z move that literally any other Pokemon can use wouldn't have fixed it at all compared to giving it a unique mega. Same with Pinsir or Altaria or Mawile.

>>29293947
>>29293989

Difference is that Megas are something only a small number of Pokemon get, and each Mega has its own distinct niche.

Z-Moves are something every Pokemon gets.

>>29293929
>removed power up punch as a tm
Source?

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>>29294116

They replaced it with Waterfall.

>>29293797
All I can read is this
>we're incompetent as fuck and we need to meet deadlines. Deal with it.

>>29293797
One overpowered move doesn't make up for shit stats, shit typing, or an otherwise unimpressive move pool.

>>29294138
>Leech Life as a TM
Am I in gen 1 again with its plethora of random TM moves?

>>29294116
Data mining. Also new megas.

Enjoy ash greninja killing mega mom this year.

Rip smogon faggots.

This makes no sense.

Why would I use Beedrill over, say, Escavalier? For Mega Beedrill.

For Z-Moves though, I'd obviously choose Escavalier, because it can use the same Z-Move and is just an overall better Pokemon.

>>29293797
What a stupid mother fucker.

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Except Megas actually improved weak/mediocre Pokemon like Kangaskhan, Mawile, Pinsir, Manectric, Altaria, etc. It made Pokemon no one cared about before into relevant and memorable party members.
Z-Moves are still stronger in the hands of stronger Pokemon. Even if all Pokemon can technically use a Z-Move, it's a 1 use per battle thing. No one is going to use Farfetch'd when Staraptor exists.
All they had to do was stop handing out megas to Pokemon that were already good and powerful, but I guess coming up with new designs was harder then making glorified elemental gems with fancy animations

>>29294188
I mean no new megas. Bye.

>favourites
*favorites

>>29294183

It's speculated that Leech Life is getting a power buff to bring it to Giga Drain and Drain Punch's level.

>>29294202
Z moves are more balanced. Any pokemon now has a better advantage and creates better team tatics.

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>>29293797
>megafags BTFO again

>>29294202
>All they had to do was stop handing out megas to Pokemon that were already good and powerful,

They only did that for popular Pokemon that were already good and powerful. I.E. Lucario, Mewtwo.

You don't hype up a new feature and then only give it the mons no one cares about. You need to throw in a few fan-favorites to sell it.

>>29294198
It's not about which is better. It's that even shitmons now have access to an extremely strong move which makes them slightly more viable.

>>29294233
>It's speculated that Leech Life is getting a power buff to bring it to Giga Drain and Drain Punch's level.

Zubat NOT being a pain in the ass to train? What is this trickery?

You're deluding yourselves if you think the Diamond/Pearl remakes won't have new Megas.

>>29294183
>Leech Life TM
>Replacing Dig of all things
I'm as mad as I've ever been!

>>29293797
It's pretty fucked that people would rather want a one use Hyper Beam Yokai Watch Soultimate rip off move for muh muh muh OHKO than megas to make underpowered or underappreciated Pokemon stronger and more useful.

Some folks here and really fucked in the head.

>>29294270
>You don't hype up a new feature and then only give it the mons no one cares about. You need to throw in a few fan-favorites to sell it.
That's where your wrong. If you give even a single shit about balance, you don't care about something that superfluous.

Pretty telling, honestly.

>>29294307
When every Pokemon has access to powerful moves, the good Pokemon jsut stay good.

>>29294348
>megas to make underpowered or underappreciated Pokemon stronger and more useful
which really didn't happen

>Some folks here and really fucked in the head
yes, people are truly mentally defective for having differing opinions. >>>/pol/ seems more your speed

Yes Masuda, I'm definitely going to use a Farfetch'd for the Flying-type Z move when I can use the same move with Staraptor or Talonflame.

>>29294341
No remakes now that hms are gone. Gen 8 here we come on the nx.

>>29294386
While meags didn't always favor weaker Pokemon there's not a universe out there where anyone would rather have a regular Beedrill with a Bug Z-move instead of Mega-Beedrill which is infinitely more versatile then a single use move.

And, fuck you, you fishlipped nigger. I'll well within my rights to disagree with others shit opinions especially when they're fucking retarded.

Not everyone who comes to this thread is going to join in with your "ding dong the megas are dead!" circlejerking.

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>>29294495
>And, fuck you, you fishlipped nigger.

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>>29293797
Why is Courtney so wonderful?

>>29293797
That shit's not going to help people who have unevolved pokemon as favorites, considering having a Z crystal isn't going to magically give it a fuckton of BST.

>>29294359
>If you give even a single shit about balance, you don't care about something that superfluous.

Except Gamefreak hasn't given a fuck about balance, and even if they do, they're God awful at it.

For fucks sake, Masuda was surprised at special Aegislash.

The priority at Gamefreak has always been making the game fun for kids.

What, mobile games are a hit where people only have time for spurt plays? Get rid of Battle Frontier, it doesn't add to the enjoyment of the game for those people.

Wouldn't putting Ash-Greninja fuck with the lore of the world? Doesn't matter, kids love and want Ash-Greninja.

>>29294622
It will when it one hit kills anything.

Also eevee z move raises it stats.

>>29294644
>unevolved pokemon gets Z-move
>its evolved form would have the same Z-move (in most cases) but running off higher stats

I just want a way to give unevolved pokemon stats equivalent to their evo. Obviously with a big catch, like missing out on evo only moves and not being allowed to do it right away.

>>29294637
They just reblanced moves and tms.

>>29294374
The problem was that it was almost impossible to beat the game with shitmons unless you overleveled, now you have a chance.

>>29293797
Isn't that what they said about Mega evos? Besides Z-moves are a stupid gimmick.

Megas were perfect. Pokemon is worse without them as a main focus.

>>29294755
>The problem was that it was almost impossible to beat the game with shitmons
How bad can you be at Pokemon?

>>29294694
They've rebalanced moves every single generation since the first. TMs being "rebalanced" don't matter at all. If PUP gets removed as a TM, you bring your Kangaskhan from Gen 6 who already knows PUP.

>>29294017
It would suck if only special snowflake Pokémon got z-moves

>>29294386
>Didn't happen
Now you are going to tell me that everyone used Mawile and Kangaskan before. It is a fact, not a subjective opinion, underpowered pokemon got more useful.

>>29294138
Is this all the changes, or just some of them?

>>29294816
Do you want to bet that kids can't beat pokemon with underleveled shitmons?

>>29294694
Yes, and? It's not the first time they've tried to balance the meta.

No matter what, games will always unbalanced.

You need first route shitmons just as much as you need uber legendaries. Because of the format of the games, this will always be the case. Main game will always be the priority over the competitive side.

>>29294910
I'm guessing it's possible if those kids don't have limbs.

>>29293797

I don't mind megas getting sidelined because the region in question may either not have any connection or the technique may be undiscovered, which I'm guessing may be the case for Alola considering you seem to learn about mega evolution in SM from Sycamore's assistants.

The one problem I see however is that if megas are still allowed to be used, that really doesn't solve the problem of their existence.

>>29293929

Power Up Punch no longer being a TM doesn't really matter if you can still send over Pokemon from XY, all it possibly does is make it harder acquire.

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>>29293797
Eat shit Masuda, my favorite already had a basically one time powerful move, it needed a Mega along with the other Johto starters and you fucked up

Also, a reminder to smogonfags. Even if Gamefreak decides to do a competitive rebalancing overhaul on the game, they're gonna balance it for VGS rules, not whatever imaginary rules smogon has set up.

>>29294997
Can you breed them, though? Can you ever own a non-Alolan Pokemon in gen 7? I thought you couldn't.

>>29295063
>My nigga Typhlosion still can't get Earth Power

>trainer customization
>in XY
>gone in ORAS
>back in SM

>megas
>Introduced in Gen 6
>so far neglected in Gen 7
>back in Gen 8 or remakes in Gen 7?

>>29294963
Do you want to see 2 adults actually not being able to beat the game with an overleveled team? Go watch Game Grumps play fire red, and if you think that the average kid is smarter than them, you are heavily overestimating kids.

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>>29295129
>We will never have a consistent and/or adequately balanced generation

>>29295129
D/P remakes obviously.

>>29295075
What? I thought Smogon rules were to try to balance an inherently unbalanced system. If they balanced it under VGS rules, wouldn't Smogon just change their rules to those?

>>29294138
>Hone Claws getting removed

My Durant set is FUCKED

>>29295150
Remember when thousands of people pressing random buttons were able to beat not just one but several Pokemon games? There is literally no skill involved outside of multiplayer. If you are just absolutely brain dead and having a hard time with the game, you just need to be a bit patient.

>>29295129
>so far neglected
Well, not completely, you can still get mega stones and evolve them as you did in XY, they just didn't make new ones, most probably in favor of the alolan forms.

People are already assblasted as it is, imagine if they cut the new pokemons by 20 to add 20 new megas?

>>29295213
No, VGC rules are 4v4 double battles

Smogon tries to balance the game around 6v6 singles.

They're two completely different systems.

>>29295259
I'm aware but I'd rather have more megas than Alolan forms. Especially considering all Alolans have been so far are genwun pandering and all that were left unrevealed aren't especially good looking.

So far Alolan forms seem like a wasted concept to me.

>>29295242
>thinking that kids nowadays have patience
>Zapdos, Lapras, Pidgeot, Nidoking
>shitmons
>Zapdos at lvl 81, and Pidgeot at lvl 79
>underleveled
Only venomoth was a shitmon, and it only did something because they exploited a bug.
Also, it was not "random", it worked through averages. And they definitely didn't beat with underleveled shitmons.

>>29295093

I don't see why Pokemon from XY or ORAS wouldn't be transferable to SM. Off the top of my head I think the only games you theoretically can not transfer Pokemon from is the physical versions of RGBY and GSC, simply because there exists no way to transfer those Pokemon to RSE or FRLG which I believe are the earliest games from which you can transfer Pokemon by using successive games as stepping stones.

>implying a 175BP move is going to KO Chansey or Skarmory when coming from a random shitmon

>>29293797
An easier solution is leting more 1 pokemon to mega evolve.

>>29295502
252+ Atk Dunsparce Body Slam(175) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 277-327 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO

>>29295502
Masuda is stupid hack

>>29293797
This is so much better.
And now they don't have to ruin good designs just to make pokemon viable.

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When everyone can use a Z-Move, no one can.

>>29293797
Since they pull usage stats they obviously noticed how centralizing megas were. Now they can watch as Z-Moves do jack shit to help underpowered mons.

>>29295502
>implying there will be a NPC with a max leveled perfect IV, minmaxed EV, Eviolite Chansey
Competitive is the last thing they care about when designing something new.

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>not making Z move power proportional to how objectively shit a Pokemon is

>>29295659
Hell, random NPCs actually can't have EVs in their pokemon, only those inside the battle facilities can. Not even by hacking can this be fixed.

>>29295590
This is sad

>>29295626
Underated post

>>29294637

>For fucks sake, Masuda was surprised at special Aegislash.

Honestly it doesn't really surprise me that GF is bad at what Pokemon and such are good. I still remember from when I played Magic it being said that just because the developers made the game, doesn't necessarily mean they're good at it. If GF was serious about balancing the games for competitive purposes they would bring in competitive players to help.

>>29295715
ie inversely proportional to its base stats?

What exactly determines a pokemon having a Mega? It would eventually end with every fully evolved mon having megas.

>>29293947
The exact same thing applied to megas too
Power creep like mad and a lot of the shitmons were still completely useless
Making top tier pokemon even stronger was retarded

>>29295966
This. Megas could've been healthy for the metagame, but they were instead given to already strong pokemon, and many of them ended up broken.

>>29293947
>>29295966
They would get Megas even if they were shit, because they sell. Do you think that they put Lucario in smash because it is competitively good? They put it in smash because Lucario sells.
And even then, more shitmons got megas than already competitively good mons.

>>29295912
>It would eventually end with every fully evolved mon having megas.
Even if you were talking about the current pokemons, it would take like 40 gens until we get megas for them all.

>>29295912
>What exactly determines a pokemon having a Mega?

Game Freak stated that the three criteria were:

>Popularity
>Game balance
>Visual design

>>29294263
>>29294307
No amount of op moves will make the likes of Delcatty and Ledian viable. Meanwhile I can think of SEVERAL Mega setups that would shoot them both into OU.

>>29294386
But that's exactly what did happen. Mawile and Kangaskhan, two NU shitmons that nobody but the most dedicated of Karenfags would give a second glance are literally fighting the likes of Darkrai, Ho-oh, Deoxys and Mewtwo for teamslots.
Even if you don't fuck with smogon, they're legitimate threats in VGC and other metas. No super move could have done that for them.


Lastly, most shitmons will be able to be killed before they launch their Z move so this does nothing for their viability. I guarantee Eevee will be a shitty gimmick that will last a month just like Weakness Policy Dragonite

>>29294755
Nigga I swept Grimsley with a Delcatty, Zinnia with a Froslass, and took down Primal Groudon with a Milotic running Coil and Bulldoze. Shut the fuck up.

>>29296060
The only broken megas but already strong normal Pokémon were Blaziken only in singles, Gengar only in 6 vs 6, Salamence only in 6 vs 6, and Rayquaza a usually banned legendary. Every other top tier mega was shit before mega evolution Lucario, Gardevior, Charizard, Mawile, Sableye, Gallade, Medicham, Venusaur without perm sun and more.

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>>29295626
Had to go fucking drink water after my explosive laugh.
Thanks anon.

>>29296258
You are either underage or retarded. Patienceless kids needs to be able to beat the game with shitmons, not you.

>>29296296

>Lucario
>Shit before Mega Evolution

Top kek

You're right about the others though.

how do z moves balance shitmon?
having a based 200 attack isn't gonna stop you getting outsped and one shot

>>29296205
>Game Balance
>Creates Mega Garchomp

Megas are pointless anon just remove them altogether

>>29296385

Mega Garchomp is worse than the base form.

>>29295626
>When everyone has a gun, no one has.
Nah, it doesn't really work when every pokemon has access to a OHKO move. This means that power means shit, and the only relevant ones, are the ones who can draw the gun faster, and the ones that can suvive a gunshot.

>>29295178
>Adequately balanced generation.

What about 4?

>>29293889
True, but at least Pokemon can't mega evolve AND get a Z-move.

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>>29296473

Since Rayquaza doesn't require a Mega Stone, it can theoretically hold a Z-Crystal, Mega Evolve, and THEN use a Z-Move.

>>29294330
no it's okay, it'll get it at a later level now

>>29293947
Mega Garchomp sucks though.

>>29296310
A Z-move isn't going tonmake that any easier

>>29296447
tfw gen 4 was the actual best and /vp/ calls you underage for believing so

>>29296559
>before
>kids uses shitty attack
>loses instantly

>now
>kids uses Z-Move
>beats at least 1 pokemon

>>29296494
Are we going to have to make another Tier above Anything Goes?

Wow 175bp move so fucking great. This wont allow a shitmon to ohko a good mon especially since most good mons can kill a shitmon before it can even act.

>>29294348
Why is everybody acting like Yokai Watch invented Finishing Moves?

>>29294467
>Not just removing Pokepage and shoving HMs back in

>>29296447
Gen 4 UU was the best fucking metagame pokemon ever had. OU was dragon/steel/ghost core spam.

>>29296704
Although, we know nothing of Priority listings on Z-Moves.

>>29296494
>There is an oversight with this
>Megas are treated like completely new Pokemon
>You can use a Z-move, then mega evolve and re-use your z-move.

>>29296723
Nope. Just put pokeride in the remakes.

>>29294816
Try Ledian out

Holy crap I'm pretty sure Ledian is the worst fully evolved Pokemon in the entire series

>>29296734
m8, Gen 4 in total was the best.

>>29296761
What is unknown dumbass?

>>29296765
>Garchomp: the meta
>best

>>29296765
Garchomp Salamence Scizor Rotom-H spam the entire gen

>>29293797
The damage was already done.

Unless "competitive" bans megas, there will never be a reason not to have on your team.

What Pokemon needs is shit that takes up the same Mega slot, but is not one.

Yugioh did this by having multiple extra deck archetypes, but a rigid limit on how many you could have, and it worked.

>>29296761
Sunflora?

>>29296791
>Not using Hidden Power Ice.

Chomp was seriously not as bad as Protean Greninja or even Mence

>>29293922
Pandering

>>29296819
>Yugioh did this by having multiple extra deck archetypes, but a rigid limit on how many you could have, and it worked.

Lmao, no it fucking didn't

Yu-Gi-Oh right now is the most disgusting broken mess I've ever seen

>>29296826
What is Yache berry? What is sandveil? Kill yourself delusionaltard

>>29296803
I'll take all of those over fagstall teams who are just known to be shit tier.

Also Lando-T is the most used pokemon that ever existed.

>>29296826

>What is Yache Berry

That plus permanent sand is what pushed Chomp ever the edge.

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>>29294138
>What moves should we remove to make space for the older HMs?
>I dunno, maybe some of the really useless ones like Quash, Psych Up, Safeguard or Swagger?
>Nah let's just remove Hone Claws, Power Up Punch and Dig, nobody uses those, right? :^)

>>29296860
True, I don't even know why Sand Veil wasn't banned straight up.

>>29296871
>Safeguard
>Useless
Its great in doubles and triples anon.

>>29296899

It was the only ability some mons had back then.

The only reason Chomp was let back into OU in Gen 5 was because all Pokemon with Sand Veil/Snow Cloak now had alternative abilities.

>>29296921
I honestly felt that Sand Rush Gen 5 was worse than Sand Veil Gen 4, just me?

>>29293797
I fail to see how this helps when most shitmons won't gain exclusive Z moves, high tier mons will still be able to use the same generic elemental Z moves so those pokemon are still superior in every way.

>>29293797
It will probably help those fan favorites that have good stats but few offensive moves.

>>29296950
Sandrush though bad had counterplay. Sandveil didn't especially on Garchomp.

>>29296921
Also there could have just been a Clause on having Sand Veil with a Sand Team.

>>29296961
No it wont unless the zmove matches the mons main attacking stat. How is electivire going to use a Zmove that is special.

>>29296749
you can only use a Z-move once a battle

>>29296839
Better than Big Eye and Dragon rulers.

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>>29294586

She's cute

Better idea would have been to give a mega like item that boosts all stats by a percentage when activated and adds a visual aura.

>>29295590
252+ Atk Life Orb Electrode Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 286-337 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO

Holy crap, and he thinks Z Moves will save them?

>>29294202
Megas also allowed things like Mega Salamence to exist.
Giving evolutions to older things would have been a much better way to go about buffing them, as Gen IV did, and wouldn't fucked everything up with all that minmaxing either.

>>29296775
>>29296825
Pokemon which prove me wrong by being so shit they didn't even register

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>>29296871
>swagger
>useless

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>>29296205
>Game balance
>Mega Gengar
>Mega Salamence
>Mega Kangaskhan

>>29296871
smogonfag detected

>>29296429
Except its not a OHKO move, it's just a very powerful move. Attacking stats still matter, especially against tanky pokemon. Grented, speed plays a part, but fast pokemon with good attacking stats are already good.

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>>29297540
That calc is BS for two reasons.

1. Explosion kills itself leaving any for of future utility or fodder out of the question.

2. Ain't even STAB, with a move with such High Base Power, STAB plays a huge roll.

The following calc has it's base attack lowered in order to match Electrodes and get a similar result.

252+ Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 308-364 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

>>29296819
>Yugioh
>Balanced

You have 3 decks you can use each format, the rest are all useless

>>29297947
Sweep mons now have a move that can sweep even tanks.

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>>29296494

>>29294430
Except that you'd want a Life Orb on Talonflame.

Meanwhile Farfetch'd could use a stat-increasing Z-move, tank a hit, Baton Pass to Talonflame, who can then survive a layer of Stealth Rocks (assuming +3 Def), and then wreck shit with its+3 Attack, Life Orb-boosted Bravest Birb.

There's a reason we get more than one Pokemon per team.

And yes, I know that 2 Flying-types is a bad idea

>>29296494
>tfw no Rayquazite found in datamine
YOU HAD ONE JOB, GAME FREAK

>>29298105
Yes, but the point is it's not going to make shitmons more viable. Good sweepers are just going to become even better sweepers. Shitmons are going to stay shitmons because why would you ever use your Z move on Shiftry and not on Bisharp?

>>29298326
But why would I use Farfetch'd to do that and not a slew of other pokemon who are far more likely to tank that first hit, and have more things they can do than just baton pass Z-moves?

>>29298493
Because you can.
That's Masuda's whole point. If you want to use your favourites, you can now do so

By your logic, why would you use anything other than Mega Kangaskhan, Talonflame and Therian Landorus?

>>29298563
Yeah, /vp/ tend to forget that most players aren't about the meta/competition. Most are happy with in-game stuff and a maybe a few casual battles with friends. In which case, it served its function in allowing weaker mons to actually still be usable in that sort of environment.

>>29298633
Even competitively, many Pokemon aren't used because their preferred held item (eg, Leftovers, Life Orb) are needed on other Pokemon. By creating new held items that allow for other strategies, then those Pokemon become a lot more viable.

>>29298563
Smogon fags

Is it really that hard for Gamefreak to hire 10 random chuclefucks who actually spend their time playing competitively and create a balancing department?

Like, seriously. It baffles me how little they know about their game. I know making things balanced is not a priority or anything but goddamn, it's like they don't even play their own game. Do none of their kids go to tourneys or something?

I honestly still cannot believe that Masuda was surprised because people were using Aegislash with a special set over a special one.

Jesus Christ.

>>29293889
Doesn't the power change based on the original move? Maybe the stonger the original move is, the weaker the Z move? So it gives a bigger boost to the UU and less of one to the OU

So basically, instead of getting rid of another mechanic, they just shoved it aside until after you beat the main game so they can pretend it's post-game content?

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>>29298800
>Masuda was surprised because people were using Aegislash with a special set over a special one
>a special set over a special one
that doesn't make any sense, unless you meant physical instead of special one time

>>29296258
>Nigga I swept Grimsley with a Delcatty, Zinnia with a Froslass, and took down Primal Groudon with a Milotic running Coil and Bulldoze. Shut the fuck up.

>Delcatty sweeping grimsley
I call bullshit. You either are lying or had a really overleveled Delcatty. Delcatty only learns 2 fighting moves (Rock Smash and Wake-up-slap) and Grimsley has a Scrafty, an intimidate Krookodile, and a Bisharp. There is absolutely no fucking way to sweep Grimsley with a normal Delcatty set without being at least lvl 65.
>Froslass being a shitmon
Opinion discarded
>Coil Milotic with bulldoze beating Primal Groudon
How is this surprising? You resist one of its stabs with high SpD and increase your Physical Atk/Def.

>>29298897
>Maybe the stonger the original move is, the weaker the Z move?

It's confirmed the other way around. Moves with high base power have stronger Z moves. And even if your case were true you could still just run an OU pokemon purposely with a shit move.

>>29297955
That's shit when these z-moves should be guaranteed ohkos.

>>29296494
It can hold a Z crystal, but it has to choose between using Mega evolution or the Z move.

>>29298947
he meant special over physical.

special or mixed aegislash sets are good because it has the same special attack stat and it doesn't have to worry about burn.

>>29298959
>>29298897
Technicianfags won't be bothering with Z-moves then.

>>29298563
But you can already use your favourites if you really wanted to, they're probably just not viable.

Z moves don't change that, so why are they being claimed as being better for balancing than Megas? Sure, there are a few op megas for already op pokemon, but there are also a lot more of good to decent megas for pokemon that weren't even close to good before, like Altaria, Gardevoir, Pidgeot, Pinsir, Glalie, Ampharos, etc.

>>29295314
You can play under VGC rules in pokemon showdown. singles 6v6 are just the most popular format

>>29298947
You are right. It was a mistake. I meant a special set over a physical one.

Here's the full thing in case you are curious.

Mr. Masuda, how did you feel about the balance for the battles this time?

Mr. Masuda: At a recent Pokémon tournament in Japan, Kangaskhan and Garchomp were used quite a lot, so I wouldn’t deny that those seem a bit too prominent. But for now, it appears to me that the players seem to have a good grip on strategies to counter one another, so I think we’ve achieved an adequate sense of balance.

At the moment, are there any Pokémon that are being used to battle in a way you didn’t expect, Mr. Morimoto?

Mr. Morimoto: Oh, there are already plenty of them. Among them, I would say that what’s happened with Aegislash has been really unexpected. We really thought of Aegislash as a Pokémon that would battle using primarily physical attacks. But recently, there has been an increase in Aegislash using special moves, like the Steel-type move Flash Cannon.

It seems like there would also be Pokémon that aren’t yet being used in battle in the way that you imagined they would be when you created them.

Mr. Morimoto: I like tricky battling styles, so I’m often thinking about unexpected strategies using Pokémon like Malamar and Aromatisse, but those may not have been uncovered yet [by others]. Malamar’s Topsy-Turvy is a move that will reverse the stat changes in an opponent, and Aromatisse’s Hidden Ability Aroma Veil is interesting because it can negate some status moves, like the perennial battle favorite, Taunt. I’m thinking that you could probably use Aromatisse in particular to great effect if you used Trick Room well. But those kinds of tricky strategies tend to have some real peculiarities that can make them fail, so maybe it’s just that no one is really looking into them. [laughs]

That logic is so flawed, since it's a one shot offensive move most of the time. It's not going to make many pokemon any more viable.

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>>29299070
your quote says that Morimoto is surprised that people are using special Aegislash, not Masuda.

another typo?

>>29298633
>Yeah, /vp/ tend to forget that most players aren't about the meta/competition
But if Masuda isn't talking about competitive play, what does he mean? You can already solo the games with a fucking Trapinch thanks to the level curve in Pokemon. Using your favorites was never a problem in single player.

>>29299124
>We

I thought you can only use one z-move per battle. So it's only in theory a crutch for ONE of your favorite shitmons. And only if matches the correct offensive stat, assuming an offensive move is even what it needs.

Why mega does give underused pokemon a time to shine, it's usually a fever dream most of the time in the long run.

Take Audino for example. Now that it's locked to a mega stone, we won't be seeing it evolving. Same goes to Sableye.

>>29299051
>But you can already use your favourites if you really wanted to, they're probably just not viable.
Yeah and now they're slightly more viable.
You can only have one Mega, one Life Orb, one Choice Specs etc.
So now you can have those Pokemon, but your others also get a boost.

Let's say you've got Mega Charizard Y but you really want Mega Venusaur.
Now you can have Charizard and your LO Talonflame, but your regular Venusaur keeps Chlorophyll, and can now use Bloom Doom or a stat-boosting Z move to remain useful.

>>29299185
If you read the whole interview, he was clearly referring to Mrs. Morimoto.

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>Gamefreak actually believes that glorified gems will make random shitmons better than the likes of Garchomp, Mega Mom or Aegishlash

I don't really see how this is gonna help my bro Shuckle unless he gets his own Z-move, which seems unfuckinglikely.

>>29299325
But anon! All time favorites like Charizard, Lucario and Greninja are getting their own special and unique Z-Moves! Aren't you excited for those!?

>>29299258
>Audino
It's even worse because Audino's Mega is utter shit so it's one in a lifetime chance to become half-decent was utterly wasted.

So uh, do these have top priority or what? Cause I feel like this is just going to turn into a game of figuring out who is holding the Z-stone, and just protecting/detecting them. Which is tern means these will see about as much use as gems did in xy.

>>29299325
Shuckle doesn't need help, though. He's already better than 90% of johtomons.

>>29299258
Mega Sableye kicks ass though, so I don't mind in that case.

>>29296961
>Pokemon that have good stats but few offensive moves.

Literally every Gen 5 mon

>>29293797
Man, I hope the Rock Z-Move has at least 650+ BP. Then my Bro Shuckle will finally be relevant!

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>>29299390
That Lilligant will never Earth Power hurts me every single day of existence. It's literally all she needs.

I'm still buttblasted that the cotton picker got retyped as fairy but Liligant did not.

>>29295063
>implying the Fire type Z move based on Eruption won't be at least 300 BP

>>29299430
every grass type needs Earth Power

>>29299367
>This shitmon doesn't need help because it's better than a bunch of shitmons

It would be cool if you could choose what a Z-move would be, upon equipping a stone.
Like choosing a physical attack, special attack or a kind of buff. Then it might actually be able to supplement some Pokemon who need some help.
But no, then you can't make as big of a deal out of unique Z-moves for mascot pokemon.

>>29299455
>Only Celebi, Shaymin, Cradily, Torterra and FUCKING SUNFLORA get Earth Power

>>29299455
>GF will never make Earth Power Grass's Ice Beam

What would Fire's be? Thunderbolt doesn't fir that well, burt its the only thing that I can think of.

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>>29293797
>even those which perhaps weren't so popular before

BULLSHIT
DO SOMETHING ABOUT FARFETCH'D THEN YOU SHIT.

PARASECT TOO

>>29299495

>Fire

Isn't that just Flamethrower? You still get that 10% burn, if I recall right.

>>29299541
I meant like coverage moves that hit the other "starter type"

>>29298963
If that happened no one would want to play, teambuilding would all involve sacking a mon on both teams cuz of Z moves, that'd be a dog shit meta for Smogon Singles and even worse in VGC Doubles and the Worst in Multi Battles, that 4 man FFA format would be shit too, the point is guarenteed OHKO's would be retarded

>>29299534
Parasect may have a niche on VGC17. Rain is pretty much the only viable weather and the only confirmed redirector so far is Clefable.

Guess who's the only Rage Power user confirmed for the AlolaDex? Parasect. Play VGC17 if you'd like to use your zombie mushroom.

>>29299465
did you play the demo?
Z moves change depending on the move you use as a base
Thunderbolt makes Gigavolt Havoc 175 BP
Electro Ball makes it 160 BP
Nuzzle makes it 100 BP and physical, but no paea (kinda weak but consider that Nuzzle is 20 BP)
Imagine using moves like Volt Tackle and Thunder as bases.

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Since the power of Z-moves depend on the base power of the original move, what happens if the base move has side effects?

Would using the Fire Z-move with Overheat still lower Special Attack? Would using the Normal Z-move with Explosion still cause it to faint?

>>29299259
But they're not any more viable.

Yes, Farfetch'd can now baton pass a strong stat boosting move, but he already had strong stat boosting moves he could pass before (Swords Dance).

However, Farfetch'd was outclassed because there are a lot of other pokemon who can baton pass strong stat boosting moves, like Swords Dance, and have other strong attributes in addition to that. These already strong pokemon will also get this strong stat-boosting Z move that they can also baton pass.

It doesn't make Farfetch'd any more viable because it also makes all the other, already stronger pokemon, equally more viable.

It'd be like if you gave every pokemon in the game +50 speed. It's not going to make your bulky attacker a beast, because he's still going to get outsped just as much as before. It affects nothing balance-wise other than a few extremely marginal cases (in this case moves like gyro ball, in the case of Z moves the very few who will get special, exclusive moves)

>>29299598
I did play the demo, and I didn't notice this. I just put it on the pikachu and it worked.
I also used it on a female pikachu caught while doing that catching contest. It didn't seem any different.

>>29299604
Look at the post above you.

Z moves don't need to make shitmons good, that's what a bunch of Alolans are already doing in this game. Marowak, Golem, Raticate are now interesting. Z-Moves are cool and all but shitmons problems are 100% related to their moves, their stats suck cock and that's what needs fixing which in the future games we might get more forms based on the region.

>>29299675
>that's what a bunch of Alolans are already doing in this game
Oh yeah. I'm sure scared about A-Sandlash. He's gonna wall all of my team with his dangerous ice-typing. Or even worse, he's gonna sweep me with his lower than normal Sandslash sweep. Oh the humanity.

>>29299640
well just check the move info
the animation doesn't change which is probably why you didn't notice

>>29299723
Fuck off, I clearly didn't say ALL of them.

>>29299746
Cool backpedaling and moving the goalpost bro.

Is it even bad that not all mons are top tier? There's a lot of them fuckers.

>>29293797
Someone explain to me why this bitch had sudden psychic powers in that short?

>>29299814
It's bad that only a small handful are top tier.
Anything to shake up that status quo would be great.

>>29299723
Will be better than normal Sandslash with Ice Shard, that's how bad normal Sandslash is.

>>29299495
solarbeam
like they already have
or focus blast
like most of them already have

fire type movepools are fine, its specific mons that need help, not the type as a whole

>>29299882
I completely spaced out on Solar Beam you're absolutely right.

So gf please give Grass-types Earth Power

>>29299495
thunderbolt is already water's too. Or at least thunder is because of rain.

>>29299882
Fire types also are more often that not double-typed giving them a secondary stab.

Meanwhile over half of all grass types are a mono-grasas shitmons.

>>29299258

Sableye was already annoying as fuck with Prankster and its Mega is even more annoying

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I will probably completely ignore this gimmick!

I just realized Z moves are glorified elemental gems, wow what a shit mechanic. Instead of balancing Ice they do this bullshit.

>>29300095
What's wrong with Ice?

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>>29296734
And fucking permanent sandstorm in half the games courtesy of ttar and hippo.

>>29300126
shares two weaknesses with steel and has no resistances despite 95% of ice types having slow defensive stat spreads

Which Pokémon are going to get the eleven exclusive Z-moves?

My bet is
>Pikachu
>Alolan Raichu
>Eevee
>Psyduck
>Snorlax
>Rowlet3
>Litten3
>Popplio3
>Lycanroc-midnight or Lunala
>Lycanroc-midday or Solgaleo
>Marshadow

>>29300291
I feel like it's a good way to promote the mythical pokemon, so probably both of them.

>>29300291
What about a UB exclusive Z-move?

>>29300291
Don't forget Lucario, Mewtwo, Greninja, Jigglypuff, and Charizard!

>>29300651
>Jigglypuff
Get that shit outta here, not even the anime cares

>>29300219
Literally a Glass Cannon type though, better than Fairy Type.

>>29300712
>Literally a Glass Cannon type though
Very few Ice Pokemon are actually built that way though.

>>29300651
>pokémon with megas getting exclusive Z-moves when they wouldn't even be able to use both of them at the same time
Nice meme

Megas were used to shill popular fully evolved mons. Z-moves give GF the chance to shill popular NFE mons. This much is obvious

>>29294138
Why are Surf, Waterfall, Fly, Flash TMs but not Cut, Dive, Rock Smash, Rock Climb, Strength or Defog?

>>29300712
2x on dark and fight >>>>>> 2x on flying and grass, not even mentioning the defensive benefits

>>29300823

Flash is getting cut. The others aren't TMs because they suck outside of Defog.

>>29300869
So will some of them still be HMs?

>>29300920

There are no HMs anymore. Surf, Waterfall, and Fly were changed to TMs because those attacks are actually good.

The rest are gone.

>>29300291
What are the eleven exclusive z-moves? And how do we know that there are eleven of them?

>>29294467
You literally couldn't sound more of an idiot even if you tried.

>>29293947
Mega Fug can use Z moves so what's your point?

>>29300965

We know there are 29 z-Moves, and you subtract the 18 type z-moves. Therefore, there are exclusive 11 z-moves, of which we know Pikachu, Raichu, Eevee and Snorlax.

>>29300956
That's interesting. Are there any Pokemon that learn strength, cut, etc naturally now?

>>29295242
They also beat one of the Fallout games

>>29299629
I agree with you anon

>>29301030

We don't know.

But the only Pokemon currently that learns Rock Smash naturally is Sawk.

While rich get richer and poor get richer but are still poor by comparison with Z-moves, I don't think that's the point the GF devs were getting at, I think it's the experience.

Both Megas and Z-Moves give a massive hype moment to a battle, but Megas restrict that moment to a handful of Pokemon, one of which you "had" to run, even if you were a casual. Z-Moves give that splashy little-Timmy-summoned-a-big-dragon moment to every Pokemon. Even though some Pokemon will be able to use them better than others, at least everyone get thrown a bone.

>>29301150
Which one? 3?

Since this doesn't help competitive at all and will not do much to help the casual game (why use your z-move on your weaker favorite mon when your more powerful favorites will do better with it?), the only two ways I can see to make this actually help balance the weaker mons someone might wanna use is thus:
1) Have z-moves only available to traditionally underpowered mons

2) Allow weaker pokemon to use Z-moves more than once per battle, and stronger mons can only use it once.

Both of these would take a little work to implement, but it would actually HELP close the gap, instead of just keeping it the same

>>29301706
>do better with it

Z-Moves are probably just straight OHKOs unless the Pokemon is an absolute tank.

>>29301949
Depends on the mon.
A weak pokemon using a 200 power move will probably hurt. But guarenteed KO? Maybe if the enemy is lacking in whatever defense the move was.

THAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT OF MEGAS YOU FUCKING DOUBLE TALKING PIECE OF SHIT

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU FUCKING DID?
YOU GAVE ALL THE MEGAS TO POPULAR POKEMON RATHER THAN THE POKEMON WHO NEEDED THEM

YOU FUCKING GOOK FUCKER
I DON'T CARE IF YOU FUCK UP THE GAME IN A 100 DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS TO MAKE MONEY BUT DON'T LIE ABOUT IT

DON'T TELL ME YOU'RE SUDDENLY GOING TO HELP ALL THE FUCKING GIMMICKMON OF THE PAST BE MORE THAN THEIR GIMMICKS OR ALL THOSE EARLY GAME POKEMON YOU SHAFTED WHEN YOU WON'T

>>29301007
I really hope that Rayquaza doesn't mysteriously lose his mega, I can see them saying that it doesn't work outside Hoenn

>>29302154
>YOU GAVE ALL THE MEGAS TO POPULAR POKEMON RATHER THAN THE POKEMON WHO NEEDED THEM

This is only true of starters, Garchomp, Mewtwo, and Lucario

>>29293989
Kanga, Zard, Blastoise, Garde, Sceptile and a whole bunch of other Pokemon disagree with you.

>>29302271
>Gengar
>Alakazham
>Gyrados
>Scizor
>Heracross
>Tyranitar
>Gardevoir
>Gallade
>Slowbro
>Lati@s
>Salamence
>Metagross

These Pokemon did not deserve them

>>29302353
>These Pokemon did not deserve them
Why? Because you wanted shitmons to get Megas instead?

>>29302458
That's sort of the point of balancing them out, yes.

>>29302554
Even giving Dunsparce a Mega wouldn't change its place as a shitmon. It'd be a waste of everyone's time. At least those Pokemon can make use of the Megas given to them.

>>29293922
Because genwunners
(Pikachu, Snorlax, Raichu...)

>>29293797
While I agree with the sentiment then why not just chuck Megas out the window with the rest of the trash?

>>29302554
Or just new forms or evos, Megas are gay

>>29302580
How do you know? The mega form could be a much different pokemon altogether in regards to stats and type.

>>29303052
Sure, some pokemon could do with a normal evolution or just a way better move set.

I liked megas.

>>29293797
>thinks a one-time-use gimmick attack will make shitmons not shitmons
Thank fucking god someone else is taking over the reigns from this fucktard.

>>29301322
I'm pretty sure one of the trainers in the demo has a pikipek that knows rock smash

>>29301949
>Z-Moves are probably just straight OHKOs unless the Pokemon is an absolute tank.

Pikachu's Z-move in the demo is 175 power (power varies based on the move it's based on and this is on Thunderbolt).

>>29303235
Even if it got a great Mega, it'd still have a BST of 515. A lot of Pokemon would be stronger than it without Mega Evolving.
Giving Megas to somewhat strong, yet not strong enough Pokemon like Gallade is more interesting and helps them a lot more compared to giving a Mega to a Bibarel.

>>29296746
There is no priority for z move you test that in the demo already.
The base power also depend on the move

>>29300291
>Pika
>A. Raichu
>Eevee
>Snorlax
>3 Starters
>2 Box Mons
>Zygarde
>Marshadow
Easy

>>29296825
Sunflora is way batter than Ledian just by having an actual usable special attack stat and the movepool to use it with

>>29303878
This guy right here.

>>29293797
>Masuda
>based
Are you on drugs? Masuda makes the worst games.

Z moves take too much time to execute. Also the names are lame.

Gigavolt Havoc? I never even imagined calling an electrical attack that, how about Gigavolt or Giga Surge or Return Stroke.

>>29304249
Return Stroke makes me want to have a stroke.

>>29293797
Is masuda stupid or something? All the good ones get a Z move too, how will this make me use something like bellossom more?

ITT retards

He's not saying Z moves let any Pokemon be top tier, he's saying that compared to mega evolution which is restricted to a few Pokemon, Z moves can be used on anything anyone wants

>>29302271
>the starters
>implying that venosaur charizard and blastoise weren't super under powered in various ways.
The only one I could see being good without megas is venosaur because of its ability and move set.

>>29304300
>The return stroke is the very bright visible flash that we see as lightning, caused by the rapid discharge of electricity. Once the step leader makes contact with a streamer, the negative charge that has accumulated along the leader channel flows rapidly to ground.

>>29300126
>>29300126

Ice has been complete shit since Gen II. Four weaknesses, 3 of which are absurdly common and almost always have been, no resistances other than itself, a more useless attacking type now, and the only other good defensive type (Steel) which can normally create decent dual/types, it shares two of its weaknesses with.

Gamefreak hates Ice for some bizarre reason.

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>>29302580
>>Even giving Dunsparce a Mega wouldn't change its place as a shitmon.
What the fuck are you talking about? Take a gander at pic related and tell me they can't make a shitmon viable with a Mega.

There was no need for Mega Garchomp, Metagross, Salamence ect because Mega or not, they'll always be good. If GF was serious about bringing shitmons to light, we'd get more cases like Mega Mawile or Mega Sableye.

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>>29293797
>get a one-time supermove to maybe make up for 65 Attack stat
>but EVERY OTHER Pokémon also gets one to use with their much stronger stats

Thanks Masuda, that really fucking helps. This is much more viable for my favorites than getting the M-Beedrill treatment. Not that I expected him to buff shitmons, Game Freak has never given a shit about that.

>>29299325
How do you need help with shuckle? He is a beast

Contrary: shell smash/infestation/toxic/rest with a lum berry or a rocky helmet
Or
Sturdy: Knock off/sticky web/sr/encore with a mental herb or leftovers


And it can mix those options up. It doesn't need a new move.

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>>29296310
>Patienceless kids needs to be able to beat the game with shitmons

Why? Why do they need that? If they have no patience, that's their fault. They already have the Gen 6 Exp. Share and the game LITERALLY telling them what moves to use in Sun and Moon, if they can't beat the game with all this overpowered shit they probably are not smart enough to read. They probably would not even know how to equip held items, which means they would not be able to take advantage of Z-Moves.

>>29301030
I can see Greninja learning cut naturally, kek

>>29296506
>no moves Zubat
Oh God, free me from this hell.

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>>29298326
>Except that you'd want a Life Orb on Talonflame.

And you'd want a Stick on Farfetch'd. First-turn 100% crit ratio is pretty much the only niche Farfetch'd has, and even then it's not viable in any tier.

>>29300126
>>29300712
>balance a type around being a glass cannon
>the majority of Ice-types have slow, bulky stats that go against the type's dynamics
>give away powerful Ice-type moves like fucking candy to non-Ice-types

This is what is wrong with Ice-types.

>>29304925
and even if there were actually pokes that could make use of its intent, it would still be the worst type because the horrendous resist/weakness imbalance.

>>29304819
>tiers

Away with you, Smogonfag

>>29304925
>>29305154
>What is Weavile
Pretty much an exception, but it's about the only real 'Glass Canon' Ice type. Yet as you said, it dies towards a soft wind, and struggles to stay in OU.
Outside of gimmick sash/pickpocket builds made to yoink leftovers on shit it can't OHKO.

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>>29305233
DO YOU THINK FARFETCH'D IS VIABLE IN FUCKING VGC?

NO, NO IT ISN'T.

The point of making tiers is to increase the viability of Pokémon by giving them environments in which they can shine due to Pokémon that would in a normal environment completely outclass them being removed.

VGC is the equivalent of only having OU and nothing else. A Pokémon is less likely to be viable in VGC than it is in Smogon's tier system.

Holy shit I'm a Karenfag, not a Smogonfag, and tiers are objectively better for Karenfagging than going by VGC's format. Farfetch'd is still weak as hell in PU, but it's got a much higher chance at pulling its weight than in a VGC match. Tiers are good.

>>29305284
Yeah, there are some good Ice-types like Weavile, but they're few and far between, which is why I said the majority were like that.

>>29305284
and Weavile isn't really viable as a glass cannon competitively. It really only does one thing well which is revenge killing.

>>29302580
You lack imagination, anon

If the people in this thread saying Z-moves will be better then Megas are serious, then holly dam you deserve your 3DS to get confiscated.

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Does that mean we won't get new megas for a long time?

Please no GameFreak, you can't leave her alone like this.

>>29305388
Until the DP remakes drop, you won't be seeing any new ones, sadly.

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>Give Pokemon megas
>Abandon megas and replace them with Z-moves

>>29305359
Fuck off, Zinnia.

>>29305370
Now hear me out.
>Z Moves are one time use attacks
>but nothing is limiting you towards only a SINGLE Z move per team...
>You just can only use a single Z move once.
>As such Z Moves become viable hold items for a one time nuke on pokemon who wouldn't have such options, a 5th attack in earnest earned via hold slot.
>Tons of stall pokemon are going to love it
>Tons of 'gimmick' pokemon at last have a real offensive option
>Most of the OU stuff will still run life orb and the like because it's better for them to always be good then to have a one time use card.

Unlike Megastones that once you pop one, you can't pop them anymore, I have a weird hunch you can pop a Z Move for each pokemon, as long as each one had a different stone. and using one doesn't disallow the others to go off ether.