Be thankful that we have more than, literally, one pokemon............................

>>29275912
>..................................................
Die in a fire

I can forgive them with Alola Forms which basically count as new Pokemon.

>>29275929
And you use the term ashime

Yeah that's one thing im thankful of. They actually look cool to catch!

>>29275912
>Not counting Alolan Forms
>Not counting UBs

>>>29275912
>Tfw gen 6 & 7 combined has less pokémon than either 1 or 5
JUST

>>29275981
>Alolan Forms
>New Pokémon
(you)

We aren't certain UBs are Pokémon yet, nor do we know if UB02 is one UB with forms or 2.

73 is an acceptable conservative number based on what we know.

>>29275981
No new numbers, no new pokemon.

>>29276039
>Alolan Forms
>Megas
>Not new Pokémon
Muh dex entries

>>29276055
Alolan forms will get new dex entries, I guarantee it.

>>29276039
>New design
>New moves
>New stats
>"Not a new Pokemon"
Fuck off.

>73

It's at least 79 though.

We know the Alolan dex goes over 800.

800 - 721 = 79

So 79 is the minimum amount of new pokemon

>>29276071
Will you bet me your firstborn child?

>>29276064
>>29276081

>Same name
>New Pokémon
(you)

Gens VI and VII are outliers due to Megas and Alolan Forms, both of which allow for both remixing or buffing of older Pokemon. Also consider the following: More Megas and Alolans can be added in the second wave of the generation, as opposed to no new Pokemon as it was in past games.

>>29276064
>>29276081
This shit got spammed for ages leading up to X/Y, but after the hype settled down most people agreed Megas weren't new pokemon. Not the twits are at it again.

>>29275912
>Unova has the most pokemon
Truely the best generation.

>>29276084
>We know the Alolan dex goes over 800.
S-source?

The only source we have, as far as I know, are the Dex sprites, whose numbers are inaccurate due to shinies, form differences, and representing the Alola dex, not the NatDex.

>>29276098
What if this anemia becomes the standard? That's the fear.

>>29276101
The difference is that Megas are in-battle forms while Alolan mons are new Pokémon in everything but name

>>29276096
>new design
>new typing
>new stats
>same pokemon
(You) (You)

>>29276113
I honestly wonder if the reason for Kalos' small number was Unova having so many.

>>29276148
>are new Pokémon in everything but name
It isn't though, Alolan Vulpix, for example, is just "a Vulpix from Alola" that happens to be different from other Vulpix.

>>29276130
http://www.mediafire.com/file/x0kczw4taez6qht/sm.zip

Download the dex and count yourself.

There's 81 Pokemon (including UB's, excluding Alolan forms).

That spiky water pokemon may be an alternate form though, if it is there's only 80 new pokemon.

>>29276101
They aren't new pokémon but from the design/developement standpoint it's almost the same thing. New models with their own animations, new stats, abilities, typing, and in the Alola form case, movepool.
That's why we're bound to get less pokémon whenever they create this kind of gimmick. The workload for them is the same as for new pokémon.

>>29276164
>new design
...that's barely different from the normal design. Just like any other form.
>new typing
So do many different forms
>new stats
Again, forms and megas

>>29276039
Yes we are certain there pokemon, they have there own pokeball and can be registered in the pokedex.

>>29276210
They took less effort than building a pokemon from the ground up and cheated us out of getting new pokemon. It's a gimmick that fucks over everyone but nostalgiafags.

These fucking gimmicks need to die. And to think I used to like Alolan Vulpix/Ninetails, I'm bot touching the fucking thing now.

>>29276214
Forms are different pokemon at everything but name.

>>29276190
I've seen that, yes.
>Including UBs
>there's 8 UBs
>81-8 = 73

>>29276214
But many other forms keep a single type (like how shaymin gains the flying type and keeps the grass type) Vulpix, persian and marowak have all lost there orginal types

>>29276146
That depends on how you want to look at it. X/Y gave us 73 all new Pokemon, which isn't much, but also 30 Megas, which gave a much needed boost to some popular but underwhelming mons. Plus another 18 in ORAS. That brings the final tally up to 121.

Plus new Megas/Alolans give us something to look forward to in the second batch of games, be it remakes, sequels, or 3rd games. I remember the old days were the second half of a generation didn't give us new Pokemon, at best it had a new form for a legend and that's it.

To be honest, I'm happy with this going back and remixing old designs. Quantity doesn't always equal quality. Just look at Digimon.

>>29276218
>they have there own pokeball
True, but they have a special Pokéball for a reason.
>and can be registered in the pokedex.
That we can't say with 100% certainty. While the sprites we have indicate that they are register-able in some kind of device, they might actually have their own mini-dex seperate from the main dex, or just be in the Alola Dex but not in the National Dex. Which would be weird, but they are UBs.

>>29276285
True, but I'm more inclined to see them as drastically different forms than different Pokémon altogether.

>>29276304
>Counting megas
No.

>Looking forward to more of these non-new bullshit encouraging them to skimp us on new pokemon.
Also no.

>Quantity doesn't equal quality!
Yeah and we're not getting any quality either. Unless you legitimately like trash like Alolan Persian. Not a new pokemon AND A shitty design. Most of the Alolan originals aren't good either. This inverse relationship you propose isn't some absolute.

>>29275912
You should probably add UBs to that list and also wait until the final list with the mythicals and stuff

There is one thing I find odd.
What if this is controlled leak.
I mean, they undergone through some process of preventing leaks and deleted all important info on moves and stuff.
So why they left pokedex sprites when they clearly can be replaced with blank pixels?
Chances are slim but what if there are more pokemons? And if thats all pokemons then that means they already exposed nearly all of them in promos.

>>29276362
Marshadow IS the mystical.

>UBs
Whether you like it or not, they are part of the national dex, seeing as they come BEFORE the mythicals. So they count for the total number of registered species.

>Region forms
They're basically completely new pokémon, with their own dex entries and everything. There's more difference between regular and Alolan Sandslash than between Plusle and Minum, Volbeat and Illumise, Solrock and Lunatona, and the Nidorans. The same can be said for the Oricorio forms as well.

But still, they don't increase the total number of Pokémon, so it's understandable why people wouldn't count them.

>Megas
Literally just battle-only power-ups. From GF's perspective they require as much work as regular evolutions, but following every other parameter, they don't count.

>>29276353
>Not liking Garfield Persian.
>Thinking not liking 1/18 makes the entire concept trash.

Alright Anon. You enjoy your salt.

File: generation_graph_incl_UBs.png (34KB, 1028x454px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 1028x454px

:^)

>tfw gen 5 is STILL as big as 6 & 7 combined

>>29275912
>Sinnoh
>"""""""""new""""""""" Pokemon
Pft

File: 1359754119815.jpg (820KB, 4999x4968px) Image search: [Google]

820KB, 4999x4968px

>>29276448
>He likes Alolan Persian
It's like you want people to immediately dismiss your opinion.

File: sonny.jpg (82KB, 250x329px)

82KB, 250x329px

>>29276572
It's cute.

File: dumb_graph.png (41KB, 1034x446px)

41KB, 1034x446px

:^)))

>>29276618
You people who keep posting those fat ugly cats don't seem toe realize they have far more definition in their faces than Alolan persian and their bodies are similarly stocky, while they just glued a circle to regular Persian's lithe body. Even if you like the concept, the execution is trash.

>>29276755
Why are megafags so insistent that their non-numbers count? To fuel their mindless optimism?

>>29275912
>You expect me to get angry about this?
You should.

>>29275929
> basically count as new Pokemon.
Except they arent at all.

Gen VII's main ""problem"" is that they didn't implement a bunch of literally IT JUST GETS BIGGER evolutions for literally every mon just to pad out the numbers and instead allowed for a respectable number of 1 and 2 stage pokemon.

>>29276164
>new design
It takes the previous design and lore as basis and has the same name.

They arent new pokemon, this shouldnt eveb be debatable.

>>29276755
Please add the 25 other Unown forms to Gen 2

Just calculated the average mons,rounded, per gen

>as of gen 2=125
>as of gen 3=128
>as of gen 4=123
>as of gen 5=129(almost 130)
>as of gen 6=120
>as of gen 7=114

It was always among the 120s and Gen 7 dragged it down the biggest since Gen 2(which is understandable given Gen 2 is the second and how it got conceived).

>>29276304
>Quantity doesn't always equal quality
There´s no correlation between them and we´ve already discussed this, stop bringing that up.

>>29276755
New alolan forms will come in remakes desu
Like they did with oras

>>29276758
The reason its head doesn't math is to visually make it clear that it's face is a defect from over breeding by alolan royalty. That's the lines gimmick. Compare. For example, Purugly, whose flat round face matches it's body because the point of the design wasn't about the fact that persians have flat round faces because of a genetic defect, but Alolan Persians face being a total mismatch with its body makes it visually clear that's what they want to get across.

>>29276854
! and ? Unown weren't in that. Add them to Gen 3.

He also needs to add Arceus forms to Sinnoh and Silvady forms to SM

>>29276953
Proof? Unless you have a dex entry leak somehow you're basing that on nothing. Not that

>It's shit on purpose

Would make it any better and less of an insult.

>>29276953
you are fucking retarded

>>29275912
The roster only seems shorter because people don't treat Mega evolution and Alola forms as new pokémon. guess what, you should. Just because they share the same pokédex slot doesn't change the fact they are as much as new things as a cross gen evolution like, say, Electivire or Magnezone.

>>29276961
Yeah.


But stuff like this does arbitrarily add only the things that bump up Gen 6 and 7 numbers, using what that person personally thinks is a good cut off point for which forms deserve to be added

>>29277014
>. guess what, you should
GF pls.

>Just because they share the same pokédex slot
Which, aside from the Nidoran artifact case, its the way we always knew how two mons were different. No one counts Unown as 20 something different mons.

>Electivire or Magnezone
Those arent Electabuzz or Magneton.

And, even if we agreed with your bullshit, Alola has a fucking short dex.

>>29277019
If alolan forms can be counted as different, then every single different form should. Including Spinda.

If you´re gonna be retarded, at least be autoconsistent, which is more important.

>>29276978
>spoon feed me cause I clearly can't think on my own
You and others are the reason everything is going downhill.

>>29277019
They do it entirely because they don't want to accept that a gen can be substandard. They're probably not even their favorite gens, they just want to defend GF from criticism out of nostalgia from the gens that are.

>>29277209
Do all the Spinda forms have different models, textures, typing, movepools and Dex entries?

>>29277234
No, I want you to prove your wild theories. Anyone that's taking a literature class can spin a bullshit interpretation out of anything, that doesn't give it any legitimacy.

>>29277243
No, but they are different forms. They count as new pokemon under your own logic.

Also, source on the Alolan forms having different entries other than being from Gen 7?

>>29276978
If I were basing it on nothing, it would be equally as valid as your thinking it's pointlessly shitty as that isn't validated by Pokedex entries or anything either. It's just the logical progression of what they were going for. Yes, strictly speaking I'm only extrapolating that, but that doesn't make it less relevant than thinking its just ugly for no reason.

>>29277279
He's probably going to count the fact that the Gen 7 dex entries for those pokemon consider the Alolan form. However, if he's doing that, he needs count the dex entries for other gens as separate pokemon too.

>>29277302
>it would be equally as valid as your thinking it's pointlessly shitty
No, because a bad design stays bad no matter the intent behind it, while your theory relies entirely on a crackpot assumption after an old Japanese man's imagination,

>>29275912
Gen 6 and 7 have shorter release cycles - 3 years instead of 4. So the average number of "new Pokemon per year" isn't that far off.

>>29277317
Uh, no, you don't understand. I'm basing an explanation nothing but the previous designs explanation and the logical progression of it. Yes, it's technically speaking just what I made up. But you just made up that's it a bad design a d ugly for no reason. Your point wasn't just that a bad design is bad even id it's supposed to be bad, our point was that you think I am pulling the explanation out of my ass. As we're operating on the same amount of information, if you believe there is no explanation for it being bad and it'a just ugly, then you are equally as baseless as you have no information on why it's the way it is.

And for the reply cord, a "good design" isn't one that's aesthetically pleasing. Its one that successfully convey its concept, especially by just looking at it. Things can look stupid or ugly if there is a reason fof it. If they couldn't, then it would be the case that only things that aren't stupid or ugly make good designs which is an absurd notion.

>>29277401
I dont think that's a good indicator, since its helped by other gens with few mons but here:

>as of gen 2=83
>as of gen 3=64
>as of gen 4=49
>as of gen 5=46
>as of gen 6=42
>now=40

>>29276081
By this retard logic, Meowstic male and meowstic female are two seperate pokemon, or the different Wormadan forms are also seperate pokemon, since they all have different stats, movesets, designs, and are permanent differences.

Except no one considers Meowstic 2 pokemon or Wormadan 3, because that's retarded.

The only difference between them and Alolan forms is that they happen to be introduces in different generations.

>>29277738
This "retard logic" is how the fucking game is programmed. Hell, alolan forms especially but including Megas and yes, major form changes as well. the only thing making alolan Pokemon not new Pokemon is the fact that they have designa based on old Pokemon and their name. It's literally akin deep. Not counting them as new Pokemon is shallow as fuck.

>>29277789
>This "retard logic" is how the fucking game is programmed.
We´re not discussing how the game is programmed, we´re discussing the domain side.
By your logic, Gen 1 had 200 pokemon, counting missingno, because they were in the code.

>>29277789
The pokemon studio opponents are also programmed in the same way, it doesn't make them pokemon.

>>29277789
This.

Dex number is fucking irrelevant. Alolan's and Mega's have enough identity to seperate them from their base forms as far as "appreciable content" goes.

And you know what, I'd even count major form changes too. Rotom forms, Therian forms, Midday/Midnight Lycanroc, Male/Female Meowstic, etc.. You bet your ass there's a hugely different identity between Thundurus Incarnate and Thundurus Therian.

>>29277803
No, were discussing by what adbitrary distinctions we count as new Pokemon. What is the reason we care about the number of new Pokemon, presuming that you do?

>>29277838
> as far as "appreciable content" goes.
No one has ever argued they arent appreciable content.

They arent new pokémon tho.

>>29277855
> by what adbitrary distinctions we count as new Pokemon
Dex number as it has been the case for 20 years with the only exception being the nidorans. It´s not arbitrary at all. It´s just you fags are trying to change the acepted conception just because, otherwise, it would mean admitting GF is not perfect.

>>29277859
But if you recognize that's its real content that takes effort to create, WHY does it matter about the number of new Pokemon? Why have dick measuring threads like this?

>>29277859
Well it depends on what you're trying to measure.

Are you measuring dex number count alone? Then sure. Are you measuring "how much content, pokemon wise, did such and such gen add?", which is almost always what that data is meant to indicate, then yes it matters.

Strictly speaking, Alolan forms are not new pokemon, as that's a definition catered by Gamefreak. But as far as time, effort, practicality, identity, and value added, I would effectively consider Gen 6 to have added roughly 120 "pokemon", after considering Mega's. Mega Pinsir may not take a different dex slot, but its as different as if it got an evolution. It looks different, has different stats, plays differently, etc..

>>29277243
You know every Pokemon has different Dex entries each Gen?

And that you are who decided Spinda cant count, not GF?

>>29277875
You didn't answer the question. Why do you care how many Pokemon there are? It can be agreed that forms and Alolan variants aren't Pokemon because they aren't a new species. However, if they take the same or similar or effort to concept, create, and program, etc., What's the problem. Why does the pokedex number matter?

>>29277945
Because it's only ever not mattered now that Gen 6 and 7 have a low number of new mons

>>29277994
Thwta not an answer and is flagrant dodging of the point if I've ever seen it. It doesnt matter because it's only just started to matter.t hat doesnt malr logical sense.

>>29277894
>But if you recognize that's its real content that takes effort to create
Yes. Which is not what we´re arguing.

>WHY does it matter about the number of new Pokemon?
Because new pokémon is better than renewed old pokémon(even if that´s also a good thing, but you shouldnt have it in detriment of newer mons).
Also, new mons take arguably more effort.

>Why have dick measuring threads like this?
For starters, because you apologists fags still insist on defending GF´s every move.

>>29277930
>Well it depends on what you're trying to measure.
Pokémon amount.

>Are you measuring dex number count alone? Then sure.
Exactly.

> Are you measuring "how much content, pokemon wise, did such and such gen add?"
adding something entirely new is more of an addition than modifying previous content.

>Strictly speaking, Alolan forms are not new pokemon, as that's a definition catered by Gamefreak.
Exactly, why are you even arguing then.

>>29277945
>You didn't answer the question.
You asked me how do we count different mons and I did. Just because it´s not an answer you agreed with doesnt mean its not an answer. It doesnt help that it´s the correct one.
The only way you could argue I didnt answer your question would be if you appeal to the fact I didnt say an arbitrary distinction, I said an actual one. Because we dont need an arbitrary one, you´re the one championing that.

>Why do you care how many Pokemon there are?
Because discovering and collecting new pokémon is one of the main selling points of the franchise for starters?

>It can be agreed that forms and Alolan variants aren't Pokemon because they aren't a new species.
Exactly.

>However, if they take the same or similar or effort to concept, create, and program, etc.,
Are you a GF employee? No, so you shouldnt care about that. Also, it doesnt take a similar effort to concept since you already have a basis. Also, by your logic, Gen 2 introduced 251 new pokemon(special split, shinies and new sprites), Gen 3 introduced 386 new ones(engine change) and so on.

>>29278036
That´s another anon. Also, it started to matter now because they screwed it up now, not before.

>>29278073
>Exactly, why are you even arguing then.

Because the argument is, and never has been just about counting the numbers that the dex went up by. The subtext is about content per generation, and Megas, Regional variants and major form changes all count as content.

File: whoa.png (48KB, 1029x467px)

48KB, 1029x467px

>>29277738
>Not counting them as new Pokemon is shallow as fuck.
Here we go

>>29277994
Yes, the fact that this has no other purpose than raising the number if Kalos and Alola Mons is substantial. It is never about going and adding forms to every gen's count, but increasing these numbers specifically.

And "what will count and what won't" will again lead to an arbitrary cut off point as we argue over which forms should count as new.

Not to mention these forms taking as much time as a new Pokemon is very debatable as we don't know

>>29278101
>Because the argument is, and never has been just about counting the numbers that the dex went up by.
That´s literally what the argument is about. Check OP´s post. It´s about the dex number. You wanted to make it about something else to defend GF-sama.

>>29278130
Meant for >29278036

>>29278073
The extra effort to create a new Pokemon and, say, Alolan Persian is marginal at best. Like it takes a couple brain synapses firing less to come up with a name and aspects of the design. Is it technically less effort? Yeah, I guess. But A) its so small it shouldn't matter to anyone. Does that means we shouldn't count all the clones and trios in unova because they took less effort to concept? Would Alolan Meowth and Persian suddenly be okay if they gave them a new design and called them blackcat and fatcat? Because that's the only difference between them and new Pokemon. Stop strawmanning about Gamefreak apologists and actually talk about the point. You don't know me and cmant presume to know I would literally defend anything Gamefreak does because I don't think an arbitrary number designation is all that matters to quantify the amount of effort put in.

>>29278153
>That´s literally what the argument is about

No, anon. It's not. That's what's written, but if you spent any amount of time on this board, you'd know that's not the case.

Also

>hurr ur just trying to defend GF xDD

Never said more content is necessarily good content.

>>29278168
>>29278130
>>29278036

>>29278174
Oh I forgot the B) point which was any less effort it might take to come up with names and designs was made up by them coming up with ways to make "new Pokemon" (new things to use) without inflating the Pokedex numbers.

>>29278115
Are you not including the genies, hoopa u, deoxys, etc?

>>29278174
How do you know this

>>29278238
Those are changeable forms
I guess Megas are too, but for some reason they are considered new Pokémon by a certain breed of autists.

>>29275912
>Unova has the most amount of pokemon
>Has the least amount of representation
I will never not be mad

>>29278285
What about Wishiwashi then, you counted him.

>>29278174
>The extra effort to create a new Pokemon and, say, Alolan Persian is marginal at best.
No, since you already have the concept of Persian, a pokemon someone might already like, so its easier to get approval of it.

>Like it takes a couple brain synapses firing less to come up with a name and aspects of the design.
design is not that easy anon.

>A) its so small it shouldn't matter to anyone
You can measure creative effort?

>Does that means we shouldn't count all the clones and trios in unova because they took less effort to concept?
Those are different mons. And they have always been divisive.

>Would Alolan Meowth and Persian suddenly be okay if they gave them a new design and called them blackcat and fatcat?
They would look too similar to meowth and persian, so they would be bad designs.

> Stop strawmanning about Gamefreak apologists
I wish I was strawmaning, but that´s what you´re doing.

>and actually talk about the point
Says the guy who wants to make this about programming effort(which, as I said in another post, could be used to claim any gen after 1 has more mons than it has, something you need to adress) and not about actual amount of new mons.

>nd cmant presume to know I would literally defend anything Gamefreak does
You´re at least defending one bad decision.

> I don't think an arbitrary number designation is all that matters to quantify the amount of effort put in.
You just said creative effort is measurable. Therefore, more mons mean more effort.
Good job killing your own point.

>>29278236
>point which was any less effort it might take to come up with names and designs was made up by them coming up with ways to make "new Pokemon" (new things to use) without inflating the Pokedex numbers.
Why is not inflating the dex numbers inherently a good thing? You NOW care about numbers?

>>29278219
>No, anon. It's not
Check the freaking OP´s post.

>That's what's written
I dont recall talking to you or any of the posters of this thread, so I´m basing it off what´s written.

>but if you spent any amount of time on this board, you'd know that's not the case.
I´ve been since the beggining.

>Never said more content is necessarily good content.
You are literally using content to defend the games´s lack of new mons.

>>29278285
Just consider designs. Add them, see how it looks. Just don't include late male and female diferences as in Raichu, Cacturne or Heracross

>>29275912
Hoenn has the best amount. Should actually be more between Hoenn and Johto, something like 120.

Kalos and Alola are fucking shit.

>>29278285
You forgot Minior then

File: generate_ass.png (49KB, 1028x465px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 1028x465px

FUCK WE FORGOT SHINIES THEY ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT EVEN THOUGH THEY SHARE A NAME

>>29276081
>all deoxys forms are new pokemon!!1
Kill yourself you fucking retard.

>>29278409
While I like Unova more, I feel Hoenn´s approach is the better one. Ideally, every gen should be like that with the ocasional Unova.

>>29278424
Nice BTFO towards those retards who think alola forms are new pokemon.

>>29278395
>Check the freaking OP´s post.

What, you mean the post saying we should be thankful for what we have, reffering to the practical content? I did check it. Clearly the subtext of this, and nearly every other argument has been reffering to content.

If I got a generation that had 200 unique designs, all with different stats, types, abilities, etc.. but they were all classified under 1 dex entry, I wouldn't complain about the lack of new additions.

>You are literally using content to defend the games´s lack of new mons.

I am literally not. I'm not "defending" anything, I've never stated any preference for any generation. All I said is that Mega's and Alolan forms are as good as new pokemon. Anon, I HATE most of the Alolan forms, hell, I hate most of the new pokemon, but I'm not going to say that they don't count.

>>29278115
Personally I would distinguish between forms that are aesthetic only (Unown, Frillish) and those that are actually different (Wormadam, Oricorio, Megas, Alolan forms).

The former don't count as new Pokemon IMO because every variation has the same type and stats. The latter do count as new Pokemon.

>>29278570
This.

In the same sense that there's no practical difference between the several billion or whatever Spinda forms, or the male-female variations, or shinies.
However, something like Meowstic, where nearly every facet of the pokemon is different between the forms, it's clearly different.

>>29278502
>What, you mean the post saying we should be thankful for what we have
Yes, with a graph about the number of NEW pokemon.

> Clearly the subtext of this, and nearly every other argument has been reffering to content.
Not really. The very fact this argument is a thing proves it. If people didnt care about the amount of new pokémon then this argument wouldnt exist at all. Apologists are the ones pushing non-new mons content(newer mons are technically content).

>If I got a generation that had 200 unique designs, all with different stats, types, abilities, etc.. but they were all classified under 1 dex entry, I wouldn't complain about the lack of new additions.
If they have one entry, it means it´s one pokémon species, so they would all be related in some way. I mean, using the logic everyone went by for the last 20 years of the franchise up till yesterday at least.

>I'm not "defending" anything
Then, what´s even your problem? Also

>All I said is that Mega's and Alolan forms are as good as new pokemon
So, you´re defending their decision to include fewer new pokémon with a retarded argument.
.
>but I'm not going to say that they don't count
As new pokémon? they dont
As content? yeah, but, again, it´s not what we´re arguing here.

>>29278570
>distinguish
You either go by dex numbers(the actual distinction of different mons) or take literally every single difference as a different mon. Those two are the autoconsistent options.

File: spinda.png (42KB, 1027x456px)

42KB, 1027x456px

hoenn best gen
most new pokémon

>>29278645
>apologists will disagree with this

>>29278641
>Yes, with a graph about the number of NEW pokemon.

And then also talking about content.

>As new pokémon? they dont
>As content? yeah, but, again, it´s not what we´re arguing here.

Great. So, even though the dex count is less, they made up for it in content in other ways? Glad we agree.

In summation, XY and SM have less literal numbers added to the dex, but the appreciable content remains roughly the same over the years.

>>29276167
I always thought that had something to do with it honestly. We went from the largest number of new Mons ever to the smallest, it can't be a coincidence, though I believe that Mega Evos and the two Primal Reversions didn't help Kalos' numbers and probably led to even less new Mons.

>>29275912
So /vp/, who do you think was the one Pokemon the marketing team forced into happening just so they would legally be able to say "With More New Pokemon than X and Y"?

>>29278641
>You either go by dex numbers(the actual distinction of different mons) or take literally every single difference as a different mon.

Or you go by the actual differences that matter.

>>29278641
>Those two are the autoconsistent options.
Not true. Life isn't black and white anon. If you weren't so autistic you'd realise there's such a thing as nuance.

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>>29278739
>And then also talking about content.

>Be thankful that we have more than, literally, one pokemon................................................................................what? You expect me to get angry about this?
At what point does it mention content?

Also, the very fact the posts exists, means people care about the AMOUNT of new mons, therefore making all of this about the amoun.

If people didnt really care about the amount of newer mons and just the other content, then there would be no discussions whatsoever about this because there would be no issue. Not to mention the datamining and the demo didnt reveal much newer content, yet these debates started when the amount of new mons was leaked.

The discussion is about the amount of newer mons. Proven by the fact it started now and not before.

>they made up for it
But I never said they made up for it. They didnt made up for it and, actually, they had to make up for Gen 6´s lack of newer mons.

>In summation, XY and SM have less literal numbers added to the dex, but the appreciable content remains roughly the same over the years.
It´s not what we´re debating. Also, newer mons are more important than other gameplay content. This franchise is, and this will probably blow your retarded apologist mind, called "Pokémon".

>>29278817
>Or you go by the actual differences that matter.
dex number, yeah.

>>29278884
>Life isn't black and white anon.
>pulling the "literally everything is relative" card
fuck off cuck.

>>29278884
Only autists actually care about Dex numbers when theres still plenty of new things to play with as there ever was. Hence why it's such a god damn issue here everybody is shitting on SM now even though hype was through the roof only just before we saw all the new Pokemon.

>>29278989
>theres still plenty of new things to play with as there ever was
But anon, that´s relative :^)

>>29278989
>I don't want a totally new game
>I want more nostalgia pandering

This is exactly why gamefreak keeps getting away with it. You all used to mock DQM and yokai watch for recolor mons, yet it's perfectly okay for gamefreak to do it.

>>29279006
My dick is relatively in your asshole

>>29278936
>At what point does it mention content?

The subtext. The board has been complaining about lack of new Pokemon ever since the leaks, reffering to a lack of content. OP's post is a direct response to that.

>Also, the very fact the posts exists, means people care about the AMOUNT of new mons, therefore making all of this about the amoun.

Because people are easily fooled by arbirary labels.

>But I never said they made up for it. They didnt made up for it and, actually, they had to make up for Gen 6´s lack of newer mons.

Yes they did. You agreed with me, there's roughly the same amount of appreciable content. There may not be the same amount of new numbers added to the dex, but if there's 120 new, usable monsters that are entirely different than past iterations, but 40 aren't factored under a new dex number, it doesn't change the amount of new content. All that's different is that it's organized differently.

>Also, newer mons are more important than other gameplay content

Not talking about gameplay content. Talking about Mega's, and Alolan forms. New "monsters" that might not be labelled as seperate Pokemon, but are still an appreciable content addition.

>>29279023
le vp is one person may may:)

>>29279099
So you agree that recolored mons are shit? I mean what are you trying to say here? Use your words and not your memes.

>>29279123
Is full of shit a meme?

>>29279037
But I say it´s relatively not, so I´m right.

>>29279074
>The subtext.
Made up by you and already proven wrong.

>The board has been complaining about lack of new Pokemon ever since the leaks
Which happened yesterday.

>reffering to a lack of content
Reffering to a lack of new pokémon, as this very sentences literally said.

>OP's post is a direct response to that.
Except OP´s post, as shown in my pic, talks about the amount of newer mons.

>Because people are easily fooled by arbirary labels.
That´s irrelevant, whether people are right or not on thinking there is or not newer pokémon, the discussion still happened and it´s about the amount. How people got into that conclusion doesnt matter to this.
Also, what arbitrary label?

>Yes they did.
No.

>You agreed with me
I agreed Alolan forms ARE content, you made up the rest in your head.

>There may not be the same amount of new numbers added to the dex, but if there's 120 new, usable monsters that are entirely different than past iterations
Which is not the case here. Alolan forms arent entirely different.

>Not talking about gameplay content.
Your previous sentence says "usable". Pokémon are used in the game, your whole point is about resorting to gameplay content(also, the whole "hey it takes time to program them into the game" argument). Can´t you not contradict yourself for five minutes?

>New "monsters"
They are new forms of previous mons, specially in the lore, which is the only thing that matters since you just said you dont care about gameplay content.

>>29279223
> that matters
that matters to you*

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>>29275912
So I mean, it depends on what you count as additions.

>>29279223
>Made up by you and already proven wrong.

Lolno.

>Which happened yesterday.

And this impacts this how?

>Reffering to a lack of new pokémon, as this very sentences literally said.

Which doesn't matter as far as personal satisfaction goes if an equal number of new "monsters" are added, ie; OP's reference to people being upset.

>Which is not the case here. Alolan forms arent entirely different.

Alolan forms are new monsters. You cannot argue that. They did not exist previous to SM. Furthermore from a more tangible perspective, they have different identities from their non alolan forms. Theyre new monsters.

>Your previous sentence says "usable". Pokémon are used in the game, your whole point is about resorting to gameplay content

I was never reffering to time to program. I literally never said that. I know this is your first day here, but here's a tip: there's more than one poster at any given time.

Give it up, kid. You can keep grasping at straws all you want, keep crying that daddy GF didn't give you what you want, but Mega's and Alolan forms make up for a lower dex count. They look different, act different, have different types, abilities, movepools, identities, practical use-- theyre as good as new pokemon.

>>29279392
>Lolno.
not an argument

>And this impacts this how?
It´s when the amount was discovered, which kickstarted all of this, therefore, this all being about the amount.

>Which doesn't matter as far as personal satisfaction goes
Are you really gonna introduce "muh subjectivity" in this? Because lots of people,including me, like having many new mons, proven by the fact these arguments exist.
It´s moot to bring this up.

>Alolan forms are new monsters. You cannot argue that.
I can, I did. They aren´t, they aren´t even promoted as that, they are promoted as newer forms of Kanto mons, not as new mons, like, say, Digimon does. And they don´t take another space in the dex, which, with the aforementioned exception, the way that has been used to distinguish new mons since the franchise´s conception. And you can´t argue that, so stop twisting it. You´re literally going against the stated lore of the franchise, not even against my opinion.

>I was never reffering to time to program. I literally never said that.
Ok, my mistake, but you still said usable. Which is a gameplay feature, as said in the sentence you quoted here. Adress this.

>Give it up, kid. You can keep grasping at straws all you want
I´m not the one constantly contradicting myself in my own posts, making definitions up, moving the goalposts or handwaving opposing arguments.

>Mega's and Alolan forms make up for a lower dex count
>make up
So you´re defending them, you already said you werent.

>look different, act different
They are different forms living in different regions. Heck, the lore of them even says they used to be the same as the older mons.

>have different types, abilities, movepools
You already said you dont care about gameplay.

>>29279608
>Because lots of people,including me, like having many new mons
Ok, but what is it about new mons that you like? Seeing new ideas? Having new things to play with? Seeing new types? Don't Alola forms cover all of these save for maybe new ideas (with stuff like alolan dugtrio probably just being a joke, but even that's contributing something else, a joke that some people might find humorous for the people that like goofy things) in some respect. It just doesn't have a seperate Dex number. Does having the Dex number increase your enjoyment?

>>29277014
It is literally nothing like cross-gen evos. Mega Mons don't even stay evolved. As far as Alolan forms go they are just new forms. 2 gens ago this wasn't even a conversation, no one looked at the two forms of Keldeo and thought those count as two different Pokemon, because they aren't.

>>29280013
Are you really only gonna adress the moot argument and handwave everything else? Please tell me you´re not the anon I was replying to.

>Ok, but what is it about new mons that you like?
Potentially good designs, potentially interesting type combinations, seeing something new and learning about it as I play(even when battling generic NPCs in a new gen you´re either seeing a new mon in action for the first time or getting used to them).

>Don't Alola forms cover all of these save for maybe new ideas
Not so much, since, in the end, it´s the same old grimer with a new color. I mean, it´s good to develop that specific pokémon´s lore maybe, but it´s not really a new thing since I´m already used to them after seeing those for many gens(them all being from gen 1 doesnt help this either, but that´s not really relevant to my point). I already know Meowth. Yes, now there will be Meowth that look different because they were used by Alolan royalty, but that´s still Meowth. Having something entirely new beats that, even if Alolan forms ARE good as of themselves. Same as megas( aside from a few execution nitpicks that are irrelevant here). But they arent as good as an entirely new thing. that´s, partially, what made BW so good. It felt more like a new thing over every other gen(except 1 for obvious reasons).

>Does having the Dex number increase your enjoyment?
Having more pokémons to know, appreciate, catch and so on does.
New pokémon take dex spaces(they have to since that´s inherent of there being more mons and to what the pokedex is all about), so, in a way, yeah.

>>29279381
You forgot Spinda and shinies, :^)

There's also one additional Floette.

>>29275912
>Unova
>156
The idea behind BW was the best in the series so far. It's such a shame that it made children angry because they couldn't use their favorites from older regions, which made them go back to the usual from BW2 on and eventually caused them to shit all over XY and SM with that pitiful amount of new things.

>>29277838
But the fact is that these forms you listed are NOT different Pokemon. GF has never listed them as such. So then based off what you are comparing Alolans and Megas too the Alolan Forms won't be new Pokemon.

>>29280267
The post was too large and it was the entire core of the argument anyway, as the issue is about nber of new Pokemon and why that's considered bad. I'm not.

But I mean you still didn't really answer. Alolan Meowth is showing the results of a cat being selectively bred. Alolan Exeggcutor is showing what happens when a tree gets access to more sunlight and clean air. They're all new concepts. Those two examples in particular are concepts made even better when were familiar with what the other results are in fact. Could then have made new Pokemon for those concepts? Yeah. But it isn't inherently better at all. It "could" be. Maybe a palm tree Pokemon that evolves into a giant under strong sunlight or whatever could be an amazingly awesome design. Or it might not be. It could go either way. That's why i dont believe it matters whether or not it was an entirely new design. I mean, does that mean every new idea that was executed poorly in the past don't count in some way if the reason we want new Pokemon is the potential that they are amazingly awesome?

>>29280528
>The post was too large and it was the entire core of the argument anyway
No, there were many argument threads.
-whether the discussion was about the amount of new mons
-whether the other fag cares about gameplay or lore, among other contradictions.
-whether the other fag is actually defending anything.
-whether alolan mons are or not new pokémon
In fact, I literally said how pointless it is to bring subjectivity up and explained it and you didn´t adress even that, can you read well anon? But, since

>I'm not.
I´ll still reply to you since you arent handwaving arguments aimed at you unlike the other fag.

>But I mean you still didn't really answer.
How? I said why, keep in mind that this being about subjectivity I could say pretty much any shit I wanted and you can´t argue it. That´s why is moot to care about why I like newer mons, since that wasnt even into question.

>Alolan Meowth is showing the results of a cat being selectively bred.
It´s the result of a MEOWTH being selectively bred. Meowth is a pokémon introduced in Gen 1.

>Alolan Exeggcutor is showing what happens when a tree gets access to more sunlight and clean air.
It´s the result of an Exeggcutor having access to more sunlight. Exeggcutor is a pokémon introduced in Gen 1.

>They're all new concepts.
Yes. Not new pokémon.

1/2

>>29280528
>But it isn't inherently better at all.
On the matter of discovering newer mons it is. On the matter of discovering what could happen old mons I agree, but, obviously Gen 7 mons don´t have anything like Alolan forms(except Oricoro) so it´s kinda pointless.

>That's why i dont believe it matters whether or not it was an entirely new design.
But your whole argument makes some sense if you consier them entirely new designs. If they arent, then they arent new things.

>I mean, does that mean every new idea that was executed poorly in the past
Then they arent new ideas if they were executed in the past. But, for example, the idea of a sword pokémon sounds great, yet the worst designs of the franchise are that. If they ever do that again, I don´t want that to be anything like the Honedge line.

2/2

>>29278424
Ad kanto shinies to johto

>>29280942
This whole post is why I said you didn't really answer the question. Theyre new concepts. Not new Pokemon. Yeah. But why do we specifically need to see lots of new Pokemon with new dex numbers and everything? Alola forms are executions of new concepts. The designs are based on old Pokemon, and they could have have made new pokemon, but why did they need to be new designs to be better? It's still a new thing, even if it's just a new meowth. If for example we had gotten that palm tree that evolves into a giant, people would just call it an executor ripoff anyway even though the concept is new but that's not really the point. I DO consider them new designs in the same way I would consider Pokemon based on similar animals or evolutions of old Pokemon as new designs, but I was assuming that you don't.

Also they were new when they they were first made is what I meant.

>>29281565
>This whole post is why I said you didn't really answer the question.
Explain how. Not saying "this whole post". Explain how telling you my personal tastes dont answer the quesiton of my personal tastes. But actually fucking do so.

>Not new Pokemon
That´s what I´ve been saying.

> But why do we specifically need to see lots of new Pokemon with new dex numbers and everything?
I already explained why. Read it.

> Alola forms are executions of new concepts.
On old mons, as I said.

>but why did they need to be new designs to be better?
novelty is better than executing past ideas in a different way. Why do you think people dont like movie remakes?

>t's still a new thing
No
one
is
denying
that

>even though the concept is new but that's not really the point
That shits on that very same sentence, if people complain about it being an exeggcutor ripoff, and they are wrong, then it´s irrelevant. Bringing this up would only make sense if people were right in this case you mentioned.

>but I was assuming that you don't
Yes, that´s kind of the whole thing.

>Also they were new when they they were first made is what I meant.
the...the fuck? Of course a new mon is new when it was first made. How does that even account on what is done to that mon 6 gens after? Are you high or something anon?

>Poliwrath and poliwhirl are diferentes Pokémon! But man what are hoy saying, Alolan exegguttor and kanto exegguttor are the same thing! And same goes to mega haberte and haberte!

Fuck off

>>29281959
>novelty is better than executing past ideas in a different way. Why do you think people dont like movie remakes?
If you people didn't watch or find themselves entertained by remakes, they logically wouldnt keep getting made. The reason remakes have a bad rap is that they take something that people love and change it which people generally don't like. Not solely on the basis that they are not new.

>>29282089
>If you people didn't watch or find themselves entertained by remakes, they logically wouldnt keep getting made
People like to get mad, but remakes dont have a good reputation anon.

>Not solely on the basis that they are not new.
You really need to get in touch with normalfags.

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>>29282076
>cascoon and silcoon are different pokemon
>meanwhile ground-wormadam and steel-wormadam are the same pokemon

>>29282239
That would be cruel if you didn't know what Pokémon you would get from the Wurmple until after 2 evolutions.

Just a note here. By doing some quick averaging of the numbers, there are 113 pokemon introduced, per generation.

With Gen 7 at 73 pokemon, the number of new mons it introduces is only 64% of the average.

Though when you think about it, this lower number allows Game Freak to make better use of their whole roster. Take Gen 3 and Gen 5 as an example. Over the course of the games, pokemon from those gens have WAY overshadowed pokemon from other games.

So that's why I liked the pokemon spread of XY. But SM is doing this very poorly, by pandering to gen 1. The Alola forms only make this worse. Don't get me wrong though, I like the concept of the Alolan forms, but, as is par for the course for new mechanics in Pokemon, it's poorly executed.

>>29282076
I meant banette, not haberte. Fucking keyboard

>>29282308
Gen VI made everything frog/birb/sword.
How is that not overshadowing older mon?

>>29282283
>plusle and minun are different pokemon
>meanwhile hoopa confined and hoopa unbound are the same pokemon

>>29278645
I was thinking the same kek

>>29282626
>Ikuzefrog and fair and balanced Protean Ninja are the same Pokémon
>Mew and Mewtwo are different Pokémon

>>29282506
Because of the relatively small number of introduced pokemon, for one. Then there's the three separate dex sections of 150 mons each, for the largest regional dex of any game, at 450. That's 378 pokemon to fill the rest of the dex with, almost the entire National Dex as of Gen 3.

I'm not really talking about the competitive metagame here, where Talonflame and Aegislash are a near-constant presence. Just standard gameplay. Right now, in my copy of Y, the only Gen 6er that I've got on my team is Aegislash.

>>29282873
The ideal is that the region is able to stand on its own ideals and ecosystem.

According to /vp/

>Unova has 156

Calls 3/5th of the designs forgettable and terrible as a whole. Demands better designs.

>Kalos has 72

Praises over better designs. Complains about the low amount of Pokémon.

>Alola has 81 (Solgaleo & Lunala have pre-evolutions, UB:01-08 are catchable, therefore are Pokémon)

>Complains about designs. Complains about low amount of Pokémon despite it being more than Kalos' 72.

>>29283155
Yes. No matter what happens, no one will be happy here.

>muh alola forms!!!

Oh okay then I guess Arceus counts as 16 different Pokemon too

>>29283155
If there is something, /vp/ will find a way to hate it

>>29283482
>Has the same stats across all his forms and possesses the exact same moves
>Alolan pokemon are, in every way other than name, different than their original forms

Nice try faggot

>>29283544
Different types, just like alola forms, ergo different, unique Pokemon

Keep moving the goalposts, faggot

Oh and Deoxys is 4 different Pokemon too if you're going to go with muh stats, same with Shaymin being 2 Pokemon

>>29283605
Hell, sure. Count deoxys and Shaymin if you want. It took as much effort to make them as it did the genies or the monkeys.

>>29276243
autism