>kanto is the best region because it's non-linear literally

>>29045770
that's johto's Kanto

>>29045770
You can beat gym 3-7 in any order.

No other pokemon game gives you that much choice.

Still, Kanto is not the best region.

>>29045770
>most of the time i hear people talk about the game being non-linear its just because they were dumb when they first played it and they missed the things they were supposed to do
In the more linear Pokemon regions/games you CAN'T "miss the things you're supposed to do".

>>29045812
Gen 2 has some gyms you can beat out of sequence, but they chose to balance it terribly and make every area leveled as if it's the first one you go to. Remember hitting the Lake of Rage Rocket Hideout and using your Lv30+ fully evolved starter against Team Rocket's Lv20 Rattata?

I'd kill for a really "open world" Pokemon game where most of those empty squares were filled in

>>29045812
>You can beat gym 3-7 in any order.

I think it's only gyms 4-6. You definitely need surf to even get to gym 7.

>>29045812
>I'm gonna pass right through all these cities without fighting the local gym leader or doing anything at all! Then I will come back later with overpowered team for this old place! n-o-n-l-i-n-e-a-r-!

>>29045863
While that would be nice for exploration purposes, it would make it easier for them to fuck up the level curve (see>>29045826)

I think the only way they could pull it out without blocking areas would be with some sort of level scaling system, and there aren't many games that did that right.

Once you beat Misty and obtain Cut, the game opens up. You can immediately skip the gym leaders and beeline for Celadon and do the entire Rocket storyline (Game Corner -> Tower -> Silph Co) before facing another gym leader. As for the gym leaders themselves, you can face Surge, Erika, Koga, and Sabrina in any order (you must finish Silph Co before you can face Sabrina, though, but again that can be done with ease), and you can also face Blaine as soon as you want after you face Koga. Giovanni and the rest of the end-game opens up once you beat all of the other gym leaders (because the Rocket story is a pre-req for Sabrina, this means you'll by necessity have completed that too). If you wanted to you could in theory go Brock -> Misty -> Koga -> Blaine -> Sabrina -> Erika -> Surge -> Giovanni.

>>29045885
Yeah, I forgot to say thatl You need to be able to surf before facing Blaine, so you need to beat Koga before him. But that's the only requisite among those gyms when it comes to order.

>>29045940
The fact that it isn't the most convenient thing to do doesn't mean the option is not there if you wish to play that way.

>>29045940
That doesn't devalue the fact that you can do it. Name another mainline entry that gives you even close to that level of freedom if you wanted it.

>>29045966
>Brock -> Misty -> Koga -> Blaine -> Sabrina -> Erika -> Surge -> Giovanni.
Interesting order. I should try this once.

>>29045883
Kill yourself

>>29045770
It's a terrible game, that's why it's so non-linear.

Honestly, you faggots would have liked to play the XY gyms in any order? That would have been a fucking mess and not enjoyable at all. RB was terribly designed and had many overlooks. It's not a perk. It's not okay.

>>29046035

Sounds awful. The only "hard" part would be beating Koga and then the rest of the game is just facerolling the other 5 gym leaders.

>>29046035
The nice thing about that order is that it actually (sort of) gives Diglett Cave a purpose since you can use it to travel from Vermillion to Viridian to face Giovanni and then go to the league.

Of course, you probably have Fly by that point but if you want to take an alternate route you can do that.

>>29046085
It'd be nice to be able to battle against Ramos earlier. Grass-types have so many weaknesses that placing the gym anywhere but in the first three places means you will most likely breeze through it because your flying, fire and but types all have good moves by then.

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>tfw I transferred Fresh Water into my Red version right after beating Misty using Stadium 2's storage system
>tfw dicking around in Saffron city before even making it to Vermillion
Kanto a best

>>29046014
>Breaking the game
>Freedom
Yeah, fighting Lt. Surge Lv24 Raichu sure is exciting with a Lv50 monster.
Bosses are supposed to fight in a right order, the game doesn't has variable levels and teams, the gym is there in your side and it's open, ignoring it to go to the next city is not what I call "freedom" but just "muh freedom".

>>29046254
>it's not freedom, it's just freedom

>>29046254
Right. It's much more fun to not be able to progress at all thanks to a horde of dancing men.

>>29046254
Your Pokemon should be early 20s to mid 30s for everything after Rock Tunnel to before Giovanni (where game is non-linear). If you go back and fight Surge you'll be evenly matched.

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>Two ways of getting to Fuchsia
>Two ways of getting to Cinnabar
>You can beat gyms 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 (providing you've already beaten gym 5) in whichever order you please
>You have to use your initiative to progress from gym 3 to gym 4 - you have to go back to Celadon to find the pathway to Rock Tunnel
>You can only access the Pokemon Tower properly once you've passed through Lavender, beaten Team Rocket in Celadon and acquired the Silph Scope, at which point you then return to Lavender
>Going through Diglett Cave once you get to Vermilion takes you back to Route 2/Pewter
>You can pass through various stages of the Pokemon League HQ depending on the number of badges you have
>8th badge is in the second town you visit

Oh geez OP what a linear game huh? LEL.

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>>29045770

Is there such a thing as a non linear pokemon game?

>>29046085
It was such a terrible game that it created a phenomenon you salty fuck.

>>29047075
>You can pass through various stages of the Pokemon League HQ depending on the number of badges you have
Yeah but it's useless and there's no points in doing this
>8th badge is in the second town you visit
And it's not open when you visit it

>>29047075
Not OP, but consider Hoenn.
> genuinely open-ended area resulting in an uncountable number of ways to get anywhere in the ocean
> You have to use your initiative to get through the desert without the go-goggles
> admittedly not much in the way of nonlinear gym patterns
> you can only access Lavaridge Town properly once you've passed it, gone to Fallarbor, and made your way back down (or gone through rusturf tunnel) to its base, at which point you still aren't actually there
> going through Rusturf Tunnel once you beat the third gym takes you back to just near Rustboro
> 5th badge is in the third town you visit

But, let's go deeper.
> plenty of side content and optional routes to explore
> likely to go around the entire region multiple times, especially if taking part in that content
> there are many, many times when you actually cannot know what your next destination is (unless you've played the game before,) culminating in the search for the undersea cavern
> berry growing, ash collecting, catching 'em all, rematches via trainer's eyes, items behind HM gates, miscellaneous daily shit
Once you beat all the trainers on a route in Kanto, you're done with it. Sure, there'll be one or two new 'mons to catch, but the only places where it's hard to find them all are the safari zone and Mt. Moon.

>>29047489
Hoenn is a bit more linear than Kanto in terms of the order you have to do things in, but it makes up for it by looping back on itself and having lots of optional side areas.

>>29047489
Hoenn is a great region too specifically for these reasons, I think it might be the best overall. It has a much more linear progression though, the line is just goes all over the place, but it still is pretty much one primary line.

>>29047616
The most you get is skipping over Brawly or Winnona for a bit.

>>29046035
I do it every time I play Kanto games. It's more fun that way.

>>29047345
So did FNAF and Undertale

>>29047489
>>29047565
Not meaning to flame or anything, but Hoenn looping back onto itself is one of the reasons I thought ORAS fell short of X and Y. It's all stuff you've seen before and you could end up mixing up the routes, whereas Kalos constantly gives you new areas and environments to explore, making every route and town unique. Although they aren't too big, they keep your curiosity and attention long enough.

>>29045770
Kanto was fun for its time. But it is awful to replay. It's boring, the sights are bland and underwhelming, the best Pokemon in the game are all in the Safari Zone and not near the end of the high level open world areas, etc.

Gamefreak is shit at RPG making. All they have is consistency and the unique idea of monster collection + battle.

>>29045883
If you look at the maps those areas are actually where most of the mountains, dense forests and general wilderness is located. I assume that's where the real bulk of Pokémon live.

>>29047464
There are fucking wild Pokemon between the gates.

I was so disappointed when other games removed this.

>>29048065
> Kalos constantly gives you new areas and environments to explore, making every route and town unique.
> constantly
Sure, in between the ten-minute-long dialogue sequences with your """"friends"""" and unfathomably boring Team Flare segments.
> new
New in the sense that each one is shaped differently, sure.
> environments
There are about four interesting environments in the game: the rocky cliffy area in the southwest, the desert route, the autumn routes, and the snowy route. Of those, only the autumn routes were visually interesting, and only the snowy and rocky routes were interesting to navigate. Most of the game was just bland, linear, and repetitive, with the most exciting thing being a few items locked behind HM gates.

Never in Kalos do I feel that a route is anything more than a passageway between two towns, with some meaningless details thrown in to try and add flavor.
> explore
If by "explore" you mean "go on a tour of," sure.
> unique
Without looking it up, tell me what route 11 looked like. You can't.

>>29045770
Traveling to cinnabar

>>29048645
This

>bridge route
>fall rock route
>route with Sinnoh marsh
>route with tall snow
>route with rocks everywhere

Etc

Nothing felt inspired or had much to do

>>29048065
Hoenn routes are actually all quite distinct. The ones that loop around are entirely optional, and serve more as alternatives.

The biggest place where hoenn starts to feel samey is after Lilycove, and not just the ocean. That's the point where a lot of the caves also atop being as different.

A bit of Touchup to those later routes and hoenn would be superb. Just a few more pallets or details so it was more clear where you were, like making the area around Shoal cave more icy, putting coral near pacifilog, or even just sticking more sand in some places or different colors of stone.

That's the only real beef I have with Hoenn, but I still prefer it compared to the guided tour of Kalos. The only optional places to explore there that I can recall are the bay near Coumarine and Terminus cave.

>>29048645
Not him, but

>Never in Kalos do I feel that a route is anything more than a passageway between two towns, with some meaningless details thrown in to try and add flavor.
Actually sometimes there are secrets obtainable with HMs
>Without looking it up, tell me what route 11 looked like. You can't.
I'll give you that I had to think, but you picked one of the more boring routes so I guess it evens out.

Your average entrance to cave grassy route with glowing rocks leading up to Reflection Cave.

>>29048645
My point is that having a new area to travel through is a real refresher for me. Also, route 14's playground next to the haunted forest to the North was something I hadn't seen before, and it was a nice touch. After all, Kalos was NAMED for beauty.

Also, route 11 was the road connecting Geosenge to Reflection Cave, though there is nothing I can say to prove I hadn't looked it up. Thanks for the loaded question.

>>29048833
The only place to my knowledge is right after the badge check gate.

Where you waterfall down and fight a few underleveled trainers and find a one room cave with Banetteite

And it's a landmark on the map

>>29045812
Yea, but who does that really? I've never or heard anyone doing that.

>>29048905
I'll give another example then, Frost Cavern's outside has a neat little secret with Surf + Waterfall where you get a good TM, I forgot which one though.

XY really lacked these areas, but at least I can remember a couple instances.

>>29048907
I often skip past several things, especially on monotype runs where I want to fill out my team as soon as I can.

>>29048938
Isn't that like the town before you get Waterfall?

It's stone edge, remeber getting it for my tyanritar

>>29048823
This I can agree with. While Hoenn definitely capitalizes on the exploration factor, some routes were indistinguishable from others at times, and the touch-up would be a great thing to have done. In contrast, Kalos inarguably had the smaller region and less areas to explore, but it all looked fantastic thanks to the capabilities of the new system.

>>29048969
I think it is.

Also if memory serves me correct Route 16, along with the marsh of Route 19, were completely optional. Terminus Cave was also explorable maingame minus Zygarde's room, so there's that as well.

>>29047489
>> genuinely open-ended area resulting in an uncountable number of ways to get anywhere in the ocean
two
all the other water routes are blocked by something
>You have to use your initiative to get through the desert without the go-goggles
and there's nothing there. it just connects two routes
>you can only access Lavaridge Town properly once you've passed it, gone to Fallarbor, and made your way back down (or gone through rusturf tunnel) to its base, at which point you still aren't actually there
how is this a positive thing? if this counts then you pass near saffron several times before actually going there
> going through Rusturf Tunnel once you beat the third gym takes you back to just near Rustboro
and the only reason this is a thing is because hoenn only gives you fly after a fuckton of progress, which makes it even more linear
>5th badge is in the third town you visit
pointless if you can't fight there when you reach it, see viridian

>berry growing, ash collecting, catching 'em all, rematches via trainer's eyes, items behind HM gates, miscellaneous daily shit
>counting ash collecting as "content"

and FRLG is still Kanto you know. Vs Seeker rematches are way better as a way of disproving "once you beat all the trainers on a route in Kanto you're done with it"

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>No one has mentioned Sinnoh yet

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>>29049100
>You get to choose what order you can do two gyms in!

>>29049100
we'll do in a thread about boring, linear as fuck regions, don't worry

>>29049002
> it all looked fantastic thanks to the capabilities of the new system.
Except it didn't.
> colors are all light-gray as fuck
> areas where you can't walk are just differently-colored, slightly elevated grass

>>29049074
I was just providing counterparts for what the other anon said about Kanto.
> all the other water routes are blocked by something
Are we remembering the same games, here? I remember being able to wander around the ocean for hours.
> and there's nothing there. it just connects two routes
The same could be said about Snorlax. (Although I would argue that Snorlax is better than the desert, for multiple reasons.)
> how is this a positive thing?
I enjoyed the weird-ass path you have to take to get there.
> fly
I usually just put Fly on an HM slave and bring it out when it's really, really inconvenient not to. When travelling between cities, I'd rather just take the road.
> pointless if you can't fight there when you reach it, see viridian
Again, I was comparing the two regions, not contrasting them.

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>>29049265
> sinnoh
> boring

>>29049002
Yeah, the ideal would be a mix. Lots of interesting side areas to explore, with a good amount of artistic differences so it's easy to tell where you are in the world.

>>29049317
When it stops feeling like an adventure and starts feeling like a chore? Yeah. Sinnoh is slow for many, many reasons, and the constant required HM use doesn't even amount to any more exploration than the gens that came before.

>>29046014
>>29046014
Diamond and Pearl let you fight maylene, wake and fantina in any order desu

>>29049322
Alola seems to be living up to that idea -- especially in the latest "Legendary" trailer -- but the fact that it's split up into four relatively small islands has me a bit worried for some reason.

>>29049291
Okay, look. I found it great, you didn't. It's pointless to argue about it.

>>29046254
except that in yellow koga, sabrina and blaine have teams basically on the same level range (specially koga and sabrina) so yes, you have the freedom to fight them whichever order you want (blaine after koga for surf obviously), not "muh freedom"

it's not "but you were meant to fight x before y look at their levels". koga and sabrina have aces on the exact same level range. nothing forces you to fight koga or sabrina first, by the time you have full access to her gym you also have full access to fuchsia. this is non linearity.

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>>29049291
>Kalos
>Didn't look amazing

>>29049478
The reason I'm wary for Sun/Moon is that there doesn't seem to be that much space, and I get the feeling the trials will send you to most of the interesting locations right away.

Hopefully there are a good number of caves hidden on the map, but even being able to choose the order you do trials on each island would be nice.

>>29049713
you are so easy to impress anon

>>29049713
That spot was designed to take pictures though

>>29045770
>You can skip Erika
>You could fight Sabrina or Koga in any order
>It's so non-linear guys, I swear!

I'd say Kanto gives you a false sense of freedom while the game gradually puts you on a linear path through obstacles. When you first come to Celadon City, it seems like the game opens up, but you can't fight Sabrina without taking care of the Rockets in Lavender Town first. and then you can't get to Fuchsia either because you need a Pokéflute to awaken two Snorlax blocking both paths to the city, which is given to you from Mr. Fuji in Lavender Town. You could ignore Erika, but why? You need the Rainbow Badge to be able to use Strength, which is what you need for Victory Road, might as well take her out the first time strolling into Celadon without backtracking. Really, your only non-linear option is Sabrina or Koga after Lavender, but that's hardly non-linear.

>>29050274
>ut you can't fight Sabrina without taking care of the Rockets in Lavender Town first. and then you can't get to Fuchsia either because you need a Pokéflute to awaken two Snorlax blocking both paths to the city

Getting the silph scope, the pokeflute and freeing Silph from the rockets is the same, long "quest"

By the time you open fuchsia you also open the possibility of fighting sabrina and nothing determines which one you should fight first, not even gym leader levels

tell me another pokemon game that does that

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I'd kill for a pokemon game where trainers and gyms scale in terms of levels/evolutions/moves with the player, though obviously story tied gyms/trainers are set at a specific level. As well, certain gyms are meant to be at higher or lower levels as part of tier'd lists, essentially meaning some gyms/trainers will only start at a certain low level, and others will stop leveling at a certain point, based on the story.

The kicker? you can pick your starting town, meaning you can effectively have any gym be your first

>>29050317
The original Gold and Silver, you could fight Pryce before Chuck and/or Jasmine, but there's a definite level difference between yours party and his gym, which is why they changed that for HeartGold and SoulSilver.

But really though, being able to fight something earlier than intended doesn't make it the best in the series, it just means you've fought them earlier than intended.

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>>29050103
I think that paths taken during the trials will end up with us going through some of the bigger locations, but the paths leading up thereto will have a lot to them, e.g. pic related. My biggest concern is that the region will feel more divided than previous ones due to the island format.

>>29050523
>tell me who does this thing
>this game does it, except it really doesn't

and no one is saying it's "better" for it. the point still remains that it was the only who did it

>>29050553
And? Does it make a difference compared to the other games in the series whether you fight out of the order that was laid out for you?

>>29050616
And what? That's the point of the thread. Can't you read?

>>29047075
>You have to use your initiative to progress from gym 3 to gym 4
>>29047489
>You have to use your initiative to get through the desert without the go-goggles

Are people using "initiative" when they actually mean "intuition"?

>>29045790
what did he mean by this?

>>29046789
Better than Kanto and Johto ass backwards level balance desu.

Why is linearity bad? Having the option of choosing the order of doing the gyms doesn't make the game better. Not one bit. Breaking the order makes the game worse. There is literally no benefit to non-linearity until Game Freak introduces a level scaling.

>>29045770
Because all the 'non-linear' stuff is shit complain. It's better than any backtracking like the bullshit in Sinnoh or Hoenn.

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>>29047075

>You have to use your initiative to progress from gym 3 to gym 4 - you have to go back to Celadon to find the pathway to Rock Tunnel
>You can only access the Pokemon Tower properly once you've passed through Lavender, beaten Team Rocket in Celadon and acquired the Silph Scope, at which point you then return to Lavender
>8th badge is in the second town you visit

>Linear means passing through each area only once

But anon those are perfect examples of linear gameplay. You are doing things exactly in the order the game wants you to

>>29046086
Only if you use the same mons.
But if you're ever using pokes higher level than the gym leader you are a complete pleb anyway and theres no helping you.

>>29047345
I love Pokémon, and in 96, the games were good. But they have aged terribly compared to other GB games and RPGs in general. Thats why I believe RB were the worst games ever.

>>29049317
You want to progress? Hey it's me Barry! Go after that guy! Oh and that one! And oh! You need Rock Climb for this! How inconvenient!

>>29045812
You can do gyms 4 and 5 any order in D/P/PT

>>29045770
In Gen II Kanto was almost perfectly non-linear, yet everyone hates it because "muh reduced rundown shithole".

HGSS made it less of a shithole, but also more linear...

>>29045770
Doesn't matter, each city/town looks almost samey anyway :/

>>29054867
>they were good but they aged so they're the worst games ever

you must be 18yo to post on this board you stupid fuck

>>29052677
no, they mean initiative, i dont think u understand what either of them mean

>>29052990
Kanto and Johto are the best designed regions from aap perspective. There are nearly no inorganic blocks on the game compared to gen5 and 6 blocking off every route until you beat the gym.

>B-But Johto is small and cramped!

Yeah because it's designed with the roamers in mind. You basically open the entire region up in order to travel for them.

>>29054867
There is only one gameboy game that aged well and that's Link's Awakening. Which is worthless due its GBC deluxe version anyway.