Why the fuck does a SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT decrease in speed come

>>29001083
Shedinja can sweep if Paralized.

>>29001083
> he isnt using ground types

>>29001083
What, you would prefer if Thunder Wave had like 85% accuracy? Are you high?

Yeah its a bit op but still, its fony that you complain about a kids game

>>29001083
Gen 7 meta will consist of Tapu Koko and Raichu and the rise of Electric Terrain teams with Discharge. It will be worse than megas or weather, screencap this.

>ground types
>electric types
>volt absorb
>limber
>guts/quick feet + facade

>>29001139
>centralizing

>>29001131
I don't think that's the way to change it, that just decreases the variance and people will just be like "wow you hit twave AND it fully paralyzed?"

Pokemon took note of Thundurus especially in the VGC years that it was big and gave Electric types an immunity to paralysis in Gen VI. Removing the 25% chance to not act is pretty reasonable considering Thundurus' impact on VGC15, and Twave would still be played because it's a strong form of speed control

>>29001139
>heal bell
>lum berry
>refresh
>rest

>>29001207
I can beat Primal Groudon with a FEAR Rattata, that doesn't make pdon bad nor Rattata good. Counterplay potential isn't a metric for balance

I use it on speedy mons online and watch them get fucked up when they can't move. Hilarious.

>>29001230
>I know there are a million ways to counter thunder wave but I can't be bothered to use any of them so it's OP

>>29001235
>not running Paraflinch against ubers online
its real fun
the disconnects are real

>>29001083
Theres nothing wrong with that though. Its makes sense that even Paralysis has a chance to shit on priority users which ensures slower pokemon would always have the turn advantage against paralyzed faster ones.

>>29001257
I don't think that's what he's saying, I think he meant that there are a lot of ways to mitigate paralysis that are fairly standard.

>>29001257
Fuck off with your fucking retarded ass logic.

Thunder Wave is the single best move in the game by a long shot. Better than Scald, better than Knock Off. It's not just run by one specific Pokemon so you can't just spout the classic "just use this piece of shit Pokemon/ability that wins under these ridiculously specific circumstances" that most people seem to think makes sense.

>Use a ground type
Mega Latias runs Ice Beam. Ferrothorn runs Power Whip. Clefable/Chansey beats most good Ground types. Slowbro has Scald. Thundurus has HP Ice. Klefki has Magnet Rise and Spikes.

>Use an Electric Type
Chansey/Clef/Latias/Ferrothorn wall all special electrics except Ferrothorn vs Manectric, and Mane can't switch in on a Power Whip comfortably anyway. Yes these usually beat Slowbro but none can comfortably continually switch in on Scalds because eventually they get burned or die.

>Use Volt Absorb
All of these are just electrics that do the same as above

>Limber
All limber mons are complete and utter shit except for a few which have small niches if they use a different ability

>Guts/Quick Feet
Guts is still getting paralysed and so is still fucked

No good Pokemon learn Quick Feet and either way they're still getting the Para chance

Basically, even though there are short term switch ins to Thunder Wave sometimes, a lot of the time there aren't and you're going to have to let something get TWaved.

After that it's basically dead. Clefable with only Moonblast can beat Specially Defensive Heatran if Heatran is paralysed. Tell me that move isn't broken.

>>29001379
>Tell me that move isn't broken.

It isn't broken.

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>>29001083
> and nearly every Pokémon has access to it.

That's what makes it balanced retard.

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>>29001106

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>>29001379
>everything has a counter so this one thing has no counter

>>29001083

start using it on your team or shut the fuck up

In a game where each turn is important this thing is broken.

That Raichu guy in the last VGC was a cowared.

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>>29001518
I bet you're that whore

>>29001379
>What is heal bell
>What is killing the pokemon who may have thunder wave before that your winning condition get paralized

>>29001134
This. Also Monkeys

>paralyze now only decreases speed by 50%
>badly paralyze works the same as it does now, TWave only has a small chance of inflicting it

honestly you gotta be retarded to think full para is a GOOD thing to keep in the game

>>29001547
A bunch of Pokemon run Thunder Wave as a secondary move. It's either get Toxic'd by Chansey/Porygon2 or get paralyzed by it.

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>mfw I thought it cut speed by half for the longest time

>>29001664
And thanks to heal bell you heal all theses
I really feel like you're making a problem what isn't, the goal of a statuts move is to weaken your staying power

>>29001703
Same here

>>29001718
Okay, but it's still undoubtedly the best status move. Burn and poison can easily be played around, and sleep is unreliable.

>>29001083
You are six generations too late.

>>29001775
burn is really handicaping on a physical mon and poison litterally reduce your staying power to zero in a better way than the paralized status does
A slow pokemon being paralized is really just weakened by the stunning chances who are pretty low so it's no big deal

>>29001379

If T-Wave was the best move, then everyone would use it. As of right now Knock Off is the best move because every pokemon that can learn knock off is using knock off.and has way less measures of counter play compared to status.

>>29001543
>>29001518
Is there a replay of this somewhere? I feel like it'd be hilarious to watch.

>>29001826
>burn is really handicaping on a physical mon
And nothing but a minor annoyance on a special one. A burned Pokemon doesn't lose any turns, and some can just SD to get their attack back to normal.
>and poison litterally reduce your staying power to zero
And that takes so many turns that it isn't nearly as big a deal as 1/4 speed and a chance of just not getting a turn at all.

>>29001872
>wasting a fucking turn by swords dancing
holy autism

>>29001885
>only using attacking moves

>>29001083
>heal bell
>aroma therapy
>volt absorb
>motor drive
>lighting rod
>switching in a ground type

git gud faggit

>>29001131
Actually, that's a good solution.
It should be like Toxic, where it has 80% accuracy naturally, but 100% if used by Electric types.
A move with its distribution and effect shouldn't be so safe to use.

>>29001872
Nobody burn a special mon, and making a pokemon lose a turn doing sword dance to get back his attack power to where it was is a fantastic thing, and poison is mostly being used on wall, or other pokemon who are supposed to be here a long time

My, aren't you a thunderously butthurt faggot.

>>29001083
Wait Thunder Wave can drop your speed and at 75%?

I have legit never had this happen, just been paralyzed usually. Maybe I'm magic or some shit.

>>29001379
Knock Off is way better. Way less risk.
The only solid counters are Justified and Megas. IIRC you still get the damage bonus with Sticky Hold.

>>29002019
what?

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>>29002019
No, it's like how a burn lowers your physical attack, paralysis drops your speed by 75%

I just hate the chance to do absolutely nothing. Because it always happens to me multiple times in a row. It's never just once.

>>29001083
Wow.
I've never seen anyone buttmad over the status ailment equivalent of String Shot.

What a loser.

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>>29001134
>mfw I use raindance

>>29001083
Do you know what paralyzed means?

>there's no reason that a Ferrothorn going for Thunder Wave on my Reuniclus should be rewarded
>using a move to help you win shouldn't be rewarded
>inflicting statuses on pokemon shouldn't be rewarded

O
K

>>29001842
Twave is still better than Knock Off due to the game impact of being paralysed has over being Knocked Off.

Knock Off is easier to use, as in, less risky to just click when there's multiple plays your opponent can make, but the game impact of twave>knock off

I would say the definitive best moves are 1) Twave, 2) Scald and 3)Knock Off.

>>29002165
Knock Off is less risky, but not as rewarding. Removing an item is annoying but most pokemon can still function. Paralyzing a fast pokemon renders it useless.

>>29004307

IF Twave was a better move then every pokemon that can learn Twwave would have Twave in their smogon lists, but they don't, meanwhile every pokemon that can learn knock off has knock off in their smogon analysis, even as an optional choice over another move.

>>29001083
Burn is worse inm y opinion.

>better distribution
>can cripple physical attackers for the whole match
>can chirp damage
>OU shit tend to carry it/RNG it via Scald

>>29004485
>i don't know how to read

>>29004557

the explanation still doesn't explain how Twave is a better move when everyone except for you says that Knock Off is currently the best move in Pokemon.

And as many people said, Knock Off has only like two forms of counterplay, which is having Sticky Hold or using a special item, and even then pokemon with sticky hold still get affected by the 50% boost, compared to having an Electric type, or having a Heal Bell/Aromatherapy user, or having a Ground type or having a Lum/Cheri Berry, or using Rest/Refresh or...

>b-but if a fast pokemon gets Paralyzed-

and thats why offensive teams have means to deal with paralysis and stall teams have rest/heal bell/armoatherapy etc. If you have an offensive team and have no way to deal with Twave spam, thats entirely your fault. The only way to "deal" with Knock Off for all teams is to suck it up and deal with it

>>29004646
Sticky hold doesn't counter Knock Off, you hit the Pokemon hard every time and no item makes up for that.

I'd say if you were looking at items that do perform well against Knock you're looking at Rocky Helmet and Choice Scarf, the Helmet is good since it's usually an item on a bulky 'mon, so the chip and attack from that 'mon will usually kill an offensive Knock user or prevent a defensive Knock user from switching into a lot of things. Obviously the Scarf is dependent on the Knock Off user.

As I said in the other post, Knock Off is a fantastic move, but having your item removed isn't as crippling as paralysis for a lot of Pokemon.

If you don't have an item you can lose 10% or a choice boost or leftovers recovery at worst.

If you are hit by paralysis you lose 75% speed and 25% chance to move that turn.

Paralysis is a loss condition. Knock isn't.

It's also worth mentioning that when you hit the first Knock you do less damage every time to that Pokemon without an item.

It's all theory about game impact and threat removal. And although Knock has a good game impact and less counterplay, paralysis has a larger impact on the game.

>>29004847
I meant 10% LO boost too.

>>29001083
I bet you think Static is OP

>>29001379
>Thunder Wave is the single best move in the game by a long shot
>Not Stealth Rock
Opinion disregarded, run a cleric, shitter.