Nope. It's too late. I'm fucking done with this series.

People actually missing HMs, this fanbase is more retarded than I thought.

Yeah, nah, this is something I wanted since Gen III. Either key items, or a easier way of cut/surf/etc without having to use either a HM slave or having a move on a team member that I can't delete.

It was a outdated concept and needed to die and I am glad they listened to people after ORAS and being able to fly.

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Sometimes I can't tell if people are merely pretending to be autistic or if an actual "human being" has this actual opinion

I agree. There were more graceful ways they could've circumvented the "wasting a move slot on HMs" "issue" that kept the good thematics of HMs and don't just take your Pokemon entirely out of the equation.

Anyone who says they miss HMs is false flagging.

>>28995604
The only way you can get more contrarian than this is to complain about infinite TMs, Running, and the game asking you for using Repels again.

>>28995604
>he likes HMs
Baby steps anon. This is GF.
They replaced the generic surf/fly sprites/models with this system, I'm sure they'll make it so you can use your team in future games if this change is well received
But please, go away

> he wants to force pokemon to use useless shitmoves like cut strength and rockclimb just to get thru a route

abjectly terrible taste famhai

>>28995689
People don't do this already?

>MUH CASUALIZATION

>>28995625
I never minded them but I wish they made them deletable once they did away with the my PC feature for item storage seeing as it was there so that someone didn't get stuck on a Pokemon-less patch of land because they found a TM and stupidly replaced the move but didn't have the HM with them to get off the chunk of rock.

That just isn't an issue anymore.

That said i won't miss them. I always thought it was stupid to whine about them, and I never wanted that dumb key item solution either, but ride Pokemon is the perfect solution. It feels like a nice game mechanic.

>complaining about HMs
>literally you forgot when you clear the game

Not even a HM Slave can carry all HMS
The pain of distrubuting Surf and Waterfall as a move on one of my Pokemon

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If they just ditch HMs they might as well make the entire game one huge corridor with hundreds of trainers lined up. Why even keep boulders if you literally just press a few buttons to summon a tauros or some shit.

They'll probably still allow you to use the old HMs if you're that hellbent on it.

>>28995789
> you have to use two water types just to get thru victory road
who approved of this

>>28995797
>implying HMs aren't the same fucking shit except you need to bring a shitmon instead of using your favorites
Are you baiting or a legit retard?

>>28995604
>>28995664
Holy shit, WOW

>>28995604
HMs were a shit gimmick

>for overcome some obstacles in the overworld you must have a Pokémon with an specific move

This was very ingenious at first, but most HMs being shit moves or having low BPs when in post-game you have moves with higher BPs is what really made it annoying. I must thank both Unova and Kalos for making HMs optional.

>Unova
>first HM you must use in the story is Cut, after it the next moment in the vCard story you must use HMs is on Victory Road, which is almost ending the game.
>Unova 2
>first and only mandatory HM is Surf for go to the 8th Gym
>Kalos
>first mandatory HM is Surf again, but is only to cross ten tiles of water, second mandatory use of HM is on Victory Road to move some blouders with Strength and Surf

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>>28995604
Shut the fuck up you crybaby

HMs added absolutely nothing of value to the games and anyone who thinks getting rid of them will hurt the series is blinded by nostalgia or just plain stupidity.

>>28995816

>have three hm slaves for gen 2's victory road, because I needed one final pokemon to learn the final HM
>two battered pokemon, and a weak pokemon I was trying to train
>rival battle right at the end
>"IT'S LITERALLY NOT BAD GAME DESIGN BECAUSE SOME OF THE HMS ARE OPTIONAL, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHICH ARE AND AREN'T BEFOREHAND!!!"

>>28995789
Gen 2 waterfall, in particular, was a bitch. A lot of water-types just didn't learn it for some arbitrary reason. (most notably, the Wooper and Totodile line, the two Johto water types you were most likely to be using)

>>28995689
I have actually seen someone complain about infinite tms,claiming casualization.

This is bait you retards, there was a thread earlier today theorizing whether people like this would actually show up. This unoriginal fuck ran with that idea and you are falling for it.

>>28995797
Are you fucking implying that HM slaves somehow enrich the experience? That me carting around a Bibarel and wasting a team slot is good design? Fuck off.

>>28995816
To be fair, if you don't have at least one water type your team is missing out. Though I almost never carry a flying type so I guess its possible.

literally only /vp/ would complain about this

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>tfw this means the Mew I've had as an HM slave since Emerald might finally be free after years of servitude
I hope he can't cope and won't be able to survive in the outside world.

>>28995604
Is anyone else worried at the fact that they have yet to show the Charizard Glide?

Do you think it will be like Soaring or are we stuck to just going to a map as if we were using Fly?

>>28995880
This.

But for the record, anyone who says they miss HMs is an absolute fucking retard.

>>28995604
I won't miss HMs and anyone who says they do is retarded, but it would have been nice to have more Pokeride options.

>>28995880
To be fair /vp/ is a very easy board to bait. All you'd have to do is look at any thread on the board. At the same time, there have been some people who have legitimately complained about things like this before, so for most its probably hard to tell.

>>28995604
Why do fans like you think tedium makes the game challenging?

>>28995604
>tfw going through older games with all the HM moves on my pokemon and no slaves to get 100% items and things before S/M
>fucking Typhlosion with Cut, Rock Climb, and Rock Smash
>all those early routes with random rock climb parts just to fucking tease you in HGSS
>thankfully whirlpool is used only twice in the game

I honestly even had to plan my team out so I'd have Flash and Headbutt and still room for STAB. This is definitely one of those things nobody can complain about.

I don't miss HM's. But I do agree in a way with the sentiment that it is much more satisfying to explore with your own Pokemon as opposed to rentals. I totally get that.

>>28995911
To be honest, I'd be fine with it just being a fly clone since it would be much faster. The reason I liked Soaring in ORAS was because I didn't have to carry a flier. It was also kinda comfy at night, but I would trade it for convenience.

>>28995873
I've complained about it before, but honestly I understand it. With online and competitive play TM's are more important than they were in past generations. You need to be able to reuse them now becuase you're likely to not use your in-game team like you would in gen I and II.

Though my solution would have been once you find a TM you unlock it in that games department store. That way there's some kind of drawback to it.

>>28995957
I'd like both again if possible.

I loved all the hidden little islands in ORAS. It was my favorite part of that game.

HMs were only good when they were required to explore optional areas. Making them required to get through the main game was retarded.

>>28995975
Finding some hidden islands in SM with rare Pokemon could be pretty cool.

>>28995604
>where me and my pokemon were overcoming the dangerous wilderness together.
See, I never felt this way in Pokemon. Human civilization so so fucking advanced and every area feels like it's been renovated for safe touring. Even "dangerous" areas like victory road and the sunken ship in ORAS feel like totally kids safe areas.
Only things like the burned building, power plant and cemetary building in Gen 1 really felt dangerous, and none of that was due to nature or wilderness.

>>28995880
Not OP, but I've been complaining about this since they announced it.

It's an improvement mechanically, but there are better ways they could've done it thematically with no detriment from a gameplay perspective.

>>28995978
Nah.

I think the problem with HMs at the moment is how entirely worthless they are during the maingame.

Needing them in older games was fine in theory because they were a small little drawback you stretched across your team. Though they were obnoxious in II-IV given how many of them there were, the idea was solid even if the execution was faulty past gen I.

But in V and VI where you surf once and only need them for optional areas what's the point? Just don't have them and figure out a new way to puzzle solve. It's not worth being a part of the game at that point.

There never should have been more than 5. Strength, Fly, and Surf are staples and the other two are swapped around based on the region (Dive, Waterfall, Rockclimb, Rocksmash, whatever). The moves should have be somewhat good too. The player should have a use for them in battle and out of it. That is where the flaws lay.

>>28996041
this

there is no dangerous wilderness in the games except for route 216 and the RSE desert, you're always following a path

>>28995625

It's just pure contrarianism anon, no one actually has this as their real opinion. OP just wants (You)s.

>>28995957
Well they've shown two swimming options, Lapras Paddle and Sharpedo Surf, and it seems like one is to enjoy the scenery and the other is to swim fast to your destination. I hope the Charizard Glide feature is like the soaring feature and then there's another Pokemon Fly that just gets you where you need to go right away.

While I do thibk the system they're using to remove HMs is retarded, I prefer it 1000x to having to lug around a slave to pass Victory Road.

>>28996100

YES YES IT'STRUE GIMME THE (YOU)S SO YUMMY IN MY TUMMY!

>>28995975
I hated how you have TMs locked behind them though and how some days you have repeating islands.

>>28996161
Actually, I prefer the way they are doing it to the ways certain people have suggested like giving Pokemon field abilities and moves. The reason is because the way the rental system works it allows you to build literally whatever team you want with out being forced to use a specific type of Pokemon. You can go and make an entire team of fire types and go through the game just fine, for the most part. Also the cultural flavor seems fine to me. The only problem is that I don't see how this particular cultural phenomenon could carry over to the next generation.

>>28996234
>The only problem is that I don't see how this particular cultural phenomenon could carry over to the next generation.
Maybe have the Pokeride owner say "Did you hear? We're thinking of expanding to other regions!" in the post game?

>>28996234
>Poke Ride has spread to other regions as tourists came to Alola and saw how useful it was!
easy

>>28995724
>it was there so that someone didn't get stuck on a Pokemon-less patch of land because they found a TM and stupidly replaced the move but didn't have the HM with them to get off the chunk of rock.
Oh, so that's why you could never delete them. Huh. Makes sense.

>>28996262
>>28996269
Could work pretty well, though I guess all future games will canonically take place after SM. Should be fun for timeline folks.

>>28995604
>I don't like change waaaaah
You're going to get the games regardless, delete this post.

>>28995604

It hasn't been officially confirm that HMs are gone.

>>28996391

I debunked that myth when Pokémon X and Y were release.


I didn't buy Pokémon X and Y.

>>28996407
How has it not? At least the HMs for Surf and Fly are gone. Maybe not "gone", but converted to TMs or something. Probably forgettable now, too.

>>28996430
>I didn't get some games, that'll teach them!
Game Freak doesn't care. Nintendo doesn't care. No one here cares. You're acting like a child for no reason.

>>28995604

>It used to feel like an adventure, where me and my pokemon were overcoming the dangerous wilderness together.

Except HM's were the cause of linearity

With Riding Pokemon, you have no limit and can explore freely

>>28995604
literally no where does it state in any information we have gotten so far, that HM's have been retconned, like... at all.

>>28995604
This

>>28995604
>Liking HM's
Biggest hinderance I say. I hated having to have a flying type, and I don't like many water types. It forces too many things in your team.

Hopefully I can finally do a monotype without this shit.

>>28996493
Untrue, they can make Riding Pokemon unlock after beating trials
>You only have the experience to control Tauros after beating Totem Yungoos

>>28996234
>>28996262
>>28996269
Or just make it so you can call, you know, your actual Pokemon. That's what I thibk they'll do, have 5-6 dedicated flying/surfing mons, you catch/evolve one and you can call it when you need it's help. This removes stupid shot like flying on a Pidgey or surfing on a Marill, and it can be used on every region

>>28996437

It hasn't.

shut the fuck up you whiny turd

>>28996544
Good argument. You've really opened my eyes to your side of things. Nice talk.

>>28996563

There is no mention of it on the official Pokémon websites.

>>28996462
If you don't LIke something.
Then you shouldn't buy it.

I didn't like Pokémon X and Y.

Simple as that

>>28996558
>If you don't something.
What?
Assuming that said "like", then how would you know you didn't like them? You didn't try them.

>>28996578
>There's not mention of shiny Pokemon on the official Pokemon websites
What is your argument?

28995604 (Faggot)

>>28996607

That's what's Roms for.

>>28996540
>requiring me to catch and raise a Pokemon I don't want to catch and raise just to go places
Now we're back to square one. No thanks.

>>28996598
You've gotten really shitposty over the past few months, Richard. Maybe go to /b/ if you want to continue.

>>28996615

It's foolish to listen to unreliable sources.
You fool

It would be nice if Pokémon can use HM moves without it taking up a move slot.

>>28996628

I don't think you know shit actually is?

>>28995916
The only HMs I'll miss are probably waterfall and surf only cuz they're pretty decent moves in game.

>>28996617
(You)
Sometimes, we all need a friend. I'll be yours.

I'm glad they got rid of them. It was annoying having to use up someone on my team just to hold a useless HM. It was especially annoying in Gen 6, because every single team member gets exp in Gen 6, including the HM slave, meaning the Pokemon on my team who got replaces by the HM slave, missed out on EXP. I had to put a water Pokemon on my team (who I didn't want), just because ORAS has so much water I would have missed out on so much training if I didn't have a water mon permanently on the team. I would have been fine with HMs if you could use them from your PC. That would have been great.

>>28996631
What does that response even mean? I didn't bring up anything about unreliable sources. You're just adding things into the conversation unnecessarily to try to throw me off.

>>28996540
That defeats the purpose of what I just said about not being forced to have specific types of Pokemon. I mean it wouldn't matter for me in your senario as someone who has a living national dex, but for people who don't catch a lot of Pokemon the way ride is suggested to work would be perfect for their teams.

>>28996655
They'll probably be changed to tms like flash.

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Even though OP might be baiting I get what you mean.
I don't like HMs either but you had a sense of adventure, like it was just you and your Pokémon travelling through the innawooods on your own, far from reach of civilization at times.
But if you're one call away from a company related thing like this, it makes it feel more like a theme park or family friendly safari where you're not too far from home.
Hopefully this and the riding from XY are just baby steps to fully utilizing your own Pokémon.

>>28996723
Pokémon has always been a theme park. Why do you think the routes are numbered the way they are?

>>28995604
https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/28987159/

arr lmao

>>28996695

get out of here pomf. let's face it, I've utterly destroyed you kiddo. you literally can't refute any of my points and you know it.

"muh bait muh bait" - t. loser still in middle school who is agree because the alpha cahd bully knocked up his crush even though he spent his whole middle school years follwojng her around like a lost beta bitch puppy thinking that a girl would ever fall for that because he is a complete retard who doesn't know that women want a real man not beta orbiters so now he has to take his anger out on the internet

>>28996744
There are routes in real life, doesn't mean that you're not out of reach from people.
I guess it's more the feeling of an adventure that you and your Pokémon have achieved together and this may hinder that.

>>28996776
wat

>>28996744
The human-built paths through them are numbered just like roads and highways in real life, Route 66, 52nd street, etc.

>>28996776
I stopped reading about 6 words in. Good talk, buddy. I hope you had a good day at school today.

>>28996791
>>28996806
yeah but nothing in real life is literally telling you what path to take to go to the next badge

>>28996100
I actually have that opinion.

>>28996816
It's just a pasta anyway.

>>28995604
>Ironically shitposting because some anon said this would happen
Meme harder, dipshit

I don't like HMs. But I don't like their new solution, either.

>>28995604

you fucking underage...

why you think they showed surf in the trailer?!

>>28997343

too tired for your retarded shitglish, so fuck off you morons

>they showed surf

HM's seems to be optional

>>28995604
HMs are shit. They've always been shit.
Pokemon riding is a way better way of implementing the feature.

As contrarian as people can be, I doubt you'll find many people who'd agree with you. HMs have always been annoying and never been a good addition to the series.

The only thing that I think will actually annoy people (and is also something I'm curious about) is if there is no bicycle in Sun/Moon.

Genuinely curious as to whether people think the bicycle will be coming back, or if it'll be completely replaced by Tauros and Mudsdale.

>>28997343
They can easily turn it into a TM like they did with Rock Smash and Flash.

it's obvious as fuck this is supposed to be a replacement for HMs (and item finder, judging by what Stoutland does) or you wouldn't be able to just call them anywhere.

>>28997402

I understand but they still exist and still should be usable

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>>28995604
>Waaaaaahh the games are too easy!!!
>I have my pokemon a move that's not part of its perfect sweeper moveset?! What kind of bullshit is that!!!

>>28997416
Nah, my issue is that I have to use a retarded fish and a retarded bird every fucking gen and I can finally have a team without those.

>>28995604
I see this as a step towards making our own pokemon usable in future games. I welcome it.

I wonder if people cried when they made TMs reusable too.

>>28997388
It looks like Tauros will be replacing the Bike. It looked about as fast as the XY bike in the Festival Plaza trailer.

My only concern is whether Surf will be a TM or move tutor move now. I really like using it- something about summoning a wave of water and sending it crashing down on the enemy feels amazing.

>>28997416

What makes you think those statements are said by the same people?

>>28997471
Fly has always been optional. No game requires you to use Fly to get anywhere, so you don't need a 'retarded bird'

Also
>a retarded fish

Water-Type has the most pokemon, and only a few of them don't learn Surf/Waterfall, so you are more likely than not to find a water type that's both usable in battle and in the field, AND many non water types learn those, as well so you can play through some games without needing a water type at all if that bothers you so much.

The only TM that is objectively bad is Flash and games nowadays don't even require you to have it in your team anymore since you can explore dark caves without it.

>>28997515
The fact that so many people complain about "having to carry a shitmon" when the most common HMs (Surf, Waterfal and Strength) are actually great moves to use in-game.

>>28997541
99% of water pokemon are retarded fish. There's only like 2 water pokemon that don't look like absolute shit.
Not to mention that Fly is an incredibly important convenience. It's necessary just to make the game not be complete drudgery

>>28997541
Strength is garbage unless you're a Normal type. There's also ofcourse Cut and Rock Smash.

Wait HMs are confirmed gone? What did I miss?

>>28996695

don't listen to rumors.

>>28997541
Strength is generally outclassed by return and waterfall is only really good on physical water types. Not that I minded either of those things that much, but those moves aren't always that great.

>>28997575
>99% of water pokemon are retarded fish
That's an incorrect statement since most water type pokemon don't even look like fish.

>>28997575
>Not to mention that Fly is an incredibly important convenience. It's necessary just to make the game not be complete drudgery
Fly always transports you to a Pokemon Center, so you don't need to carry a bird pokemon with you at all times. You can always leave it in the PC upon reaching your destination. So far, ORAS is the only game that allows you to fly to a route, and you still don't need to carry a flying type because you have soaring, for which you actually use one of your pokemon, instead of a rented one.

>>28997601
The games that require you to use Cut to keep moving forward only do so at the beginning, when you most likely don't have a full team yet, so you don't have to sacrifice a party slot for cutting trees. Since you don't need it later in the game, its low power it's not really a problem (in fact it's unlikely that any of your pokemon will have any move with a higher BP). Usually by the time stronger moves become necessary you can replace your pokemon that knows Cut or make use of the Move Deleter.

Rock Smash could be stronger, but since it lowers the foe's defense it's not actually that bad since it allows you to take more advantage of your stronger moves.

>>28997633
As I said, HMs sometimes keep your pokemon's moveset to be perfect, but even if they can fully take advantage of one move, they still have three more they can use. And let's be honest, most of the times spamming the stronger move is more than enough.

>>28997625
http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-ca/aug-1-ride/
Tauros and Sharpedo are the new Rock Smash so it's pretty safe to assume that these things are replacing HMs

>>28995604
What Pokémon will be used for Rock Climb?
Defog?

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>>28995604
Bet you'll buy 'em anyway.

Tropical Islands would have trained pokemon for this stuff. You need to rack in $ from tourists.

I'm pretty Fucking sure that you can still using surf and Fly from your pokemon as HM, PokeRide is jjust optional

>implying HMs are removed
The new rider features will cost money to employ. It's just a price vs convenience thing. You'll still be able to use your own Pokemon.

HM's need to die