So how much longer until faggots start saying HMs were a good

Already been said, but it's not a ton of people.

I just hope they keep Poké ride or something equivalent for the proposed Sinnoh remakes. Making you use HM's in that would be a very bad idea.

>>28987159
I mean, I'm glad they look to be gone as field moves, but I hope they aren't removed completely. I'd miss fly.

Hms were stupid, only used once literally

>>28987228
They're going to keep the HM slaves in Sinnoh to keep in the "spirit" of it

you know, because having a maximum team size of 4 when on the way to Snowpoint is fun

>>28987238
They'll be TMs like Rock Smash or Flash. Game Freak doesn't remove moves.

I'm sure they'll be retooled as TMs. I like to have waterfall or surf on a water type.

I'm surprised retards aren't saying HMs are completely gone like the sperglords who said the same about Megas.

>>28987277
>needing 4 shitmons from to play the worst generation

>>28987159
I honestly wish they hadn't remove them. I think part of the adventure is to overcome obstacles with your pokemon and combine your skills in order to explore the different areas.

Renting pokemon is just stupid. Why not just hail a taxi and ask them to take us from city to city?

It would have been much better if they just made hms deleteable or simply make it so every pokemon has a field skill they can use to cut trees, surf, move rocks, etc.

>>28987333
>>28987159
so about 7 minutes

>>28987159
i for one never had a problem with HMs

>>28987333
Would have been much cooler if you could actually use your pokemon instead of renting.

...still better than HM

>>28987354
>for one

you're probably right about that

>>28987159
I've always thought so, though on /vp/ in general it's been a minority position.

There are some pokemon I never ever would have used if not for the purpose of loading them up with HM moves.

>>28987319
No, I mean you need 2 shitmons
you need 5 or 6 different HMs when navigating Mt. Coronet later in the game

>>28987159
My honest hope is that you are able to use HMs on your pokemon and use them to get around if you so desire (surf isn't exactly a bad move), but rentals are there if you don't want to clog up your team with garbage.

From gen V onward, the point of the HMs were completely removed.

Back when TMs were consumable, the trade off HMs offered by being reusable, but permanent (which was already watered down by the Move Deleter, albeit near the end of the game) was really compelling, as compelling as you would expect using a TM/HM to be.

I was surprised to see HMs in XY, because the inconvenience is glaring next to all the reusable TMs that don't fuck your move pool so you can cut down a tree.

So, is this confirmation HMs are out?

I don't see the problem with this as it should have been a staple a long time ago. Pokemon are just like the tools and services we use everyday.

Wanna travel? Why use a plane when there's Charizard Glide? Wanna show off for some bikini bimbo on the beach? Ditch the surfboard and use Sharpedo Jet. Ferry's too slow? Whip out Lapras paddle.

These things give a much more detailed look into how people in the Pokemon world, not just trainers, get by.

hopefully never because they were an objectively useless and annoying mechanic

>>28987159
Does everyone forget that in oranguru's trailer, they showed Wiahiwashi using Surf?
You know? Th HM move Surf???

>>28987597
It was a move called Surf
You don't know if its an HM or TM or WhateverM

It looked weak enough to not oneshot someone weak to it so i'm betting TM

>>28987597
>You know? The HM move Rock Smash???
Surf will just be TM101 or whatever

>>28987597
I think you mean the new TM move, Surf.

>>28987597
It'll be a TM. Now, if only there was a Defog move tutor.....

>>28987623
>TMs are weaker than HMs
>GF would reduce the power of the Water-type Flamethrower
It's incredibly obvious that they fudged the stats to make Instruct look strong, anon.

>>28987597
Do you honestly think that if they get rid of the requirement to have a certain (usually useless) move on your team to progress, that they'd get rid of the move completely?

>>28987717
>here, take badge
>badge lets you use move outside of battle

Rock Smash hasn't been an HM for 3 gens now, and it's serving the purpose just fine.

there was a leakfag who said hms are in the game, and rental pokemon. it's a choose your own poison type of meme, and there will probably be secret areas that you can only access by having the hm, because you can't call a rental pokemon there

>>28987238
They aren't gone. Wishiwashi is seen using Surf in battle in one trailer I believe.

Probably gonna be TMs now.

>>28987333
>It would have been much better if they just made hms deleteable
It would take about two seconds for some retard to trap himself on an area surrounded by water with no way to escape, hence why they haven't done it.

>>28987506
Exactly

>>28987785
>they won't be gone, probably just TMs now

How fucking retarded are you fucks? This is 2nd person in this thread to assume "no more HMs" would mean that the move would be removed from the game. It's blatantly implicit that the move would be in the game, just not as an HM. The whole discussion is about the HM mechanic, not the actual moves. Holy shit.

>>28987434
I think you missed the point entirely. HM's were never meant to serve as a counter option to TM's, they were there so they could have environmental objects that you would need to have a Pokémon to overcome. They're unrelated except in that they both teach moves to Pokémon.

>>28987739
I meant the REQUIREMENT to have a move. I actually love the mechanic of using moves outside of battle to solve puzzles. The issue comes up that the HMs (and some TMs) are mostly useless in battle and it's a hassle to teach them to pokemon you'd rather use for battling. I think a great compromise would be if certain pokemon could perform certain tasks (like cut trees and move boulders), without the use of a move after a badge requirement or something similar is met.

>>28987830
>reading comprehension

>>28987159
>paddle

?

>>28987159
Genwunner here. Im glad theyre gone. No more pokemon slaves or having to use a move i dont want is great.

>>28987837
The weaker the HM moves are useful before you have your entire TM list. All gamefreak needs to do is diversify the typing of the moves a bit.

>>28987830
Reread that post, Anon.

>>28987848
Exactly, reading comprehension.

Everyone is talking about the HM mechanic. You stupid fucks are talking about Surf.

>>28987786

This wouldn't be a problem. Can't trash or box HMs so even if you delete surf the HM would still be in your pack

HMs should have been removed four generations ago

>>28987830
Wow, anon.

>>28987786
Not really... HMs have always been multiuse, and if you theoretically got trapped in say Sootopolis City because you erased Surf, Dive and Fly from all of your Pokemon and released all of your Pokemon that could learn those moves, you would still be able to fish up a Pokemon that you could give Surf and Dive to.

>>28987901
I was just responding to one poster, not OP. Holy shit.

>>28987901
Do you understand how conversations work? How retarded are you?

>>28987159
Hope charizard glide is like Soaring and not just a cutscene like fly.

>>28987901
The point flew over your head and to the moon.

>>28987977
>I hope they add real time traveling to Fly

fucking why?

What's the source of the OP image?

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I am gonna miss the flavor (for lack of a better word) of having my own mons doing the work instead of calling in a rental. But I'm not going to pretend this is in any way worse gameplay-wise. HMs long outstayed their welcome.

>>28987997
Because it's cool and all the important functions are in the menu anyways?

>>28987159
Tauros is one more right?

They Replace flying and surf in game while tarpus replace bike i think.

What about cut and strength?

>>28987997
We know there's two different Surfs (Lapras and Sharpedo), so there could be a Fly and a Soar too.

Soaring was fun.

I like that this is becoming a story of a whole different kind of trainer but I'll be missing HMs.

HMs were a big part of the whole bonding with your Pokemon ideal. Them needing you and you needing them to advance together. The very act of riding your super-powered pets is a simple way of showing a bond.

It wouldnt even be hard to make them not be a problem. All you'd have to do is make them:
1. Good moves
2. Replacable by new moves that are learned

>>28987400
No you don't. Required HMs in Coronet are Surf, Strength, Rock Smash, Rock Climb.

Chances are you have a water type on your team with Surf already so that's only 3 HMs needed on one slave.

>>28987997
because soaring is fun.
actually being able to fly on a pokemon was the best thing about oras for me.

I understand how this any better or much different, you are still have to try and use specific pokemons in your party if you want to explore or advance

>>28987159
Gen 8.

>>28988077
No? The rental Pokemon are ones you call to pick you up, they're not on your team. Like the Lati flute in ORAS.

>>28988054
I'll agree with that, that it feels worse not being our own Pokemon. I wonder if the better solution wouldn't have been to have key items (like hedgeclippers for Cut or whatever) instead of rental mons.

>>28988069
>>28988043
>>28988017

You guys totally misunderstood his question. He asked why you would want to add "real time-traveling" to Fly. It makes no sense that Fly is now a time travel device.

>>28988065
You still need a flymon. And either way, dedicating an entire party slot to overworld navigation is kind of dumb.

>>28988077
Nope, the rental mons are essentially key items

What's with all these bullshit anecdotes about how HMs made people feel connected with their pokemon?

TMs - consumable but can be overwritten
HMs - reusable but permanent

The whole point of HMs, ever, was to limit exploration to keep it in line with progression through the game.

As long as you still have the choice to Fly/Surf on your own mon I don't mind.

>>28988181
You should just seek out gurus and get taught how have your Pokemon carry you in water or smash rocks or whatever, and then you can use it automatically provided you have an appropriate Pokemon, which would be much simpler than having to have half a dozen moveslots given over to them yet still keep the feeling of your Pokemon being part of your adventure beyond just being weapons.

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>>28988205

Traveling the world on my Pokemons' back made me feel connected to them, yeah.

>>28987830
This. All others are retarded.

Clearly the first anon didn't mean using fly IN BATTLE, he wanted to keep using fly to fly elsewhere, instead of having to soar on a charizard back all the fucking time.

All they had to do was make HMs not permanent.

It's not like they get used up, so you'd never get stuck in an area.

>>28988273
But it's just a generic black whale-thing except for the Lapras, Kyogre and Sharpedo in gen 6

>>28988359
They're permanent for the sole reason that you can battle while surfing, so you can't replace Surf while surfing.

>>28988404
So, if the HM is currently in use, block it from being overwritten. Any other time, its delete able. Easy fix, Gamefreak, get on it

>>28988451
Or just make them into key items

oh wait

>>28988451
The new game will turn old pokemon with hms nto tms when ported.

>>28987830
They won't be gone. If you want to surf with your generic shadow-blob model, go ahead. You want to surf with a shark head strapped with a saddle? Be my guest.

Why not have both? There's going to be rentals, and maybe later on you can use HMs and not rely on a rental in order to solve puzzles and shit

>>28987238

The moves themselves aren't gone

Using them as HM's are gone

>>28988593

You aren't going to have simple roadblocks like a tree for cut

>>28988622
Straight-up roadblocks are barely better than broken bridges anyway. They should take a leaf from Golden Sun's book and copy its puzzle design.

>>28988593
Game might be open world except the island quests are in order.

Cut and strength could still be in.

>>28988205
>>28988381
If you dont understand this, it just means that you're not enjoying Pokemon the way some of us are.

Besides, limiting exploration is done by other roadblocks too.

I'm happy they are gone.
Using HMs on my party members didn't make me feel connected, it made me fell bad because they were being gimped just so we can cut a thorny tree.

>>28988764
You're right, I don't understand it

sitting on a generic fish sprite doesn't make me feel more connected to my Gyarados. I don't need to cripple my mons offensively to feel connected to them.

>>28987434
what? no

>>28988785
So they should just be solid moves like Surf and Waterfall already are.

>>28987159
I could them getting rid of HM moves in the Sinnoh remake. Instead when you beta a gym leader you get a rental Pokemon for that TM.

For example beating Roark will give you cut right, instead you get a pass which allows you to call a Scyther down to cut down a branch.

>>28988181
You don't need Fly either, it's just a convenience HM.

>>28988807
Just because it's poorly represented doesnt make it any less your Gyarados opening your way to whole new parts of the map.

>>28988822
Even better, we should be able to rent specialized pokemon and just use the HMs (now TMs) if we want to if they are good
Oh shit sweet, thanks GameFreak

>>28988807
You just don't roll play, man. What it looks like doesn't matter, use your imagination. Some people play pokemon for roll play only.

>>28988850
It really does

The flavor being different doesn't make it look any less like your Gyarados is just summoning a platform for you to sit on. And again, I feel that HMs "connecting" you to your mons is a shit reasoning when I already feel connected to them by raising them. It feels fucking bad to actively make your bros worse just to be able to get somewhere.

>>28988065
One slave is too many To Be Honest With You, Familia.

ORAS proved this.

>>28988877
But I want to Fly around the region on my Rowlet3 bro. Not some Charizard I dont give a fuck about.

>>28988895
role play*

and reread my post

>>28987159
Wooo

I can actually have 6 pokemons and not have to raise a HM slave.

Anyone who wants HMs back is retarded.

>>28988947
Just the single post or more of them. And you don't need to point out people's typos, tons of htem are going to appear when typing quick messages.

>>28988381

It's called using your imagination.

>>28988749
Please no. Those were the worst ones.

>>28988908
So HMs would be fixed if only every Pokemon had a unique HM sprite? I'd say it would certainly improve the experience but this seems like a petty complaint.

And having a platform that freely moves you around a vast ocean is not insignificant. It's even more significant if that platform is your super-powered pet that you've raised, trained, and bonded with.

>>28988980
I've used it for 6 gens, I'm done

>>28988945

And I don't want to use Pokemon I don't like just to have an HM slave or because the team I want to use doesn't learn all of them. For the first time I'll be able to have a team without an obligatory water type. Hell, I even liked how in ORAS I didn't have to use a flying type that learned Fly, all I needed to do was just play the Flute.

>>28988908

Why do you feel connection to hour Pokemon by raising them? Its just a generic sprite/model of that species anyway.

>>28987159
hms should just be an additional skill with greater distribution or something like that rather than a move. I mean im glad the hassle of needing an hm slave or having to go back and forth between the pc is gone now but i dont really like the idea of needing outside help to get me around to places on my journey from rental pokemon that arent part of my team. Calling the the charizard rental service to give you a lift out from the middle of nowhere isnt as cool as having your golurk or whatever fly you home.

>>28989052
And I guess here we're getting into subjectivity. I like the idea of riding around on my Pokemon enough to want to have to deal balancing a team around it or using HM slaves.

To me this is kind of a bad trade-off but for you its good because you dont value that experience as much. Neither of us can be wrong for liking thing.

>Cut: Functions as False Swipe, has 100% accuracy.
>Rock Smash: 60 BP with a 100% chance to reduce Defence by one stage
>Fly: 100 BP and Accuracy
>Surf: 95 BP
>Strength 95 BP
>Flash 100% accuracy, sharply reduces Accuracy
>Waterfall Unchanged
>Whirlpool: 30 Base Power and 100% accuracy
>Rock Climb: 95 Accuracy and 100 Base Power.
>Defog: Sharply reduces evasion

On top of this, all HMs are deletable freely. Every HM is given to you before, or immediately after you get the required badge, to prevent some kid from surfing to an island, then deleting surf with no way to reteach it. No city requires an HM to leave, without at least a tiny patch of grass containing a Pokemon that can learn the HM before this obstruction, and a strangely generous old man that gives out free Pokeballs to people who have none.

Cut, Flash, and Rock Climb get better distribution. Anything with teeth, claws, or blades gets Cut, any Psychic, Fire, or Electric type, along with anything that learns many of those types of moves gets Flash. Anything with legs gets Rock Climb.

Would you use them on your actual team, now?

>>28989201
this
>Cut, Flash, and Rock Climb get better distribution. Anything with teeth, claws, or blades gets Cut, any Psychic, Fire, or Electric type, along with anything that learns many of those types of moves gets Flash. Anything with legs gets Rock Climb.

with this >>28989077
>hms should just be an additional skill with greater distribution or something like that rather than a move.

>>28989201
If they're deletable freely, just make it so you don't need the move taught at all, just have an appropriate pokemon with you.

>>28989201
No, because building my team around navigating the world isn't fun for me. Key items are far more elegant than what you're proposing anyways.

>>28989247
with the rental service available should you want to travel the region using only a team of 6 kakunas

>>28989201
I Strength should be a Fighting type move and Rock Climb a Rock type move. Being the best Rock type move with 100% accuracy would make relevant on its own.

Strength should also keep the power it has but be able to Flinch.

Make Defog great again.

>If a Pokemon is capable of learning an HM, they can use it outside of battle without actually learning it.

Would this fix HMs?

>>28989452
I mean, a flying Pokemon should definitely be able to learn Fly if it can already actually fly

>>28988985
Eh, Strength wasn't too bad. 80 BP with 100 accuracy is serviceable in game. Cut was atrocious though

>>28989495
And if a Pidgey or a wingless Doduo can carry you across a region, a Butterfree or Yanmega sure as hell should be able to

>>28987333
>make it so every pokemon has a field skill they can use to cut trees, surf, move rocks, etc.
This is exactly what I wanted.

>>28988985
Unlikey they will remove all hms. Just the transport ones.

>>28989669
We already know that Tauros and Sharpedo function as Rock Smash and Mudsdale functions as Strength. Poke Ride is replacing all HMs.

>>28989688
Oh nice. What about cut.

>>28987159
There has always been a compact group of people that have liked HMs.
They might become more vocal now though.

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>People actually wanting HMs required again

This is the highest level of retardation I have seen.
The main problem with HMs is that they are required and the majority of them suck (defog) I hate having to waste slots on my teams movelist in order to travel around when a key item can mean I can create the team I want.
Even if they were all amazing the fact I NEED to use them makes them annoying as all hell as in regions like Hoenn you need to dedicate THREE slots to water travel, oh yeah lets waste three slots to using water type moves meaning I can't use some Pokemon's good move pools.
From having played all six gens so far, HMs are my most hated thing for ruining battles for the sake of navigation.
Really Key items and NPCs act as better gates than moves.

>>28989734
I played the first gen. Not having to have a hm slave or a certain type of pokemon on my team is good.

It was bound to happen during the transition to 3d at some point.

>>28989700

We haven't seen it yet. It's likely not in the game since Cut is garbage.

>>28989746

Nobody wants required HMs. We just want the OPTION to surf on our own Pokemon if we wish to do so.

>>28987282

If they can do it with rocksmash there is no reason why they couldn't do it with other moves

>>28989746
Amen. I hated always needing to catch a Water-type. No more HM blocks gives everyone the freedom to make exactly the kind of team they want. Soaring in ORAS was a step in the right direction. Now we're going the whole 9 yards.

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>>28988054
>muh bonding

>>28988980
>using your imagination
>in a video game

>>28987228
Well, they made Rock Smash an HM again just for ORAS, so I'm gonna say they'll be bringing back all of the HMs again if they do the remakes.

I honestly never had a problem with HMs.

Most of them aren't bad and most Pokémon don't get optimal movesets ingame anyway. Like oh no, I have to run Cut over the ever-useful Screech.