So, since Zinnia and Maxie/Archie have all but confirmed alternate

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>>28817953
No it doesnt.

>>28817953
It looks like shit

>>28817953
there is nothing that proves oras take place before xy in the megaverse

>>28818041
infact the creation of the O-power man would suggest the opposite

>>28818041
Going by the official chronology, XY takes place alongside B2W2, and ORAS is just Hoenn which took place alongside RBY.

>>28818002
Why go through the effort of drawing the eye behind the "hair." What the fuck is the point of that?

>>28818041
OP here I made a mistake, ORAS takes place at 0 and XY at 6, only reason for that is a tweet from one of the producers.

>>28818041
Half the people who talk about the pokemon timeline dont know anything related to what they are discussing

>>28818059
There's more than one o-power man which you can see in xy. If that's the best argument you can come up with then that just proves how little actual proof there is.

>>28818066
>>28818082
which has since been proven wrong by the games' introduction of the megaverse. There's a reason this tweet was deleted almost immediatly, which he would not have done had it actually been canon.

>>28817953
Can you please stop talking about this liquid shit theory?

>>28818118
Bulbapedia's shit tier timeline still uses that tweet as it's only source lel

>>28818089
Because it's mostly non cannon nonsense that fan boys are pulling out of their ass.

Origins is like FRLG in mega universe.

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>3 fucking universes

>>28818118
>There's more than one o-power man which you can see in xy.
There's only one Mr. Bonding.
Also the Royal Unova was an actual ship by the time of XY while in ORAS it was still in planning

>>28818118
It hasnt been proven wrong at all though. I mean, I suppose it has if you start adding your own made up additions to the Megaverse theory

>>28817953
>FRLG
>canon

>>28818296
>There's only one Mr. Bonding
he's in multiple places at the same time (just fly between hotels and he's always there) and every single one always treats you as if they've met you for the first time, asking if you need an explanation on o-powers. There's more than one.

>>28818296
no one in xy mentions the royal unova

>>28818503
>he's in multiple places at the same time
Canonically he's getting there before you.
> asking if you need an explanation on o-powers.
Did it ever occur to you that O-Powers can be obtained in every area and that's just there to explain to players who missed the others?

In any case we know that there's only one Mr. Bonding because his creation was revealed in ORAS. The men disappeared after giving him all of their power. There can be no other Mr. Bondings and I invite you to try and find and proof that there can.

>>28818542
This is why you don't go to Bulbapedia for information.
If that doesn't float your boat, pun not intended, an NPC in Lumiose mentions Plasma making the news.
A Plasma grunt themselves mention the mistakes of the previous teams and their failure including Magma and Aqua.

>>28817953
Theres only two universes. Mega and non mega.

Pokemon hasnt goy a official timeline yet zelda did later.

>>28818838
The gameboy games usually get thrown on the charts as a simple way of illustrating that they're not part of the non-mega timeline anymore. Whether or not they're split into their own timeline is pretty inconsequential.

>>28818737
then mr. bonding can canonically teleport apparently. The fact that 8 men fusing into a single human being and teleporting across Kalos seems more likely to you then it all being a giant joke and there being more than one mr. bondings says something about how deep your autism goes.

Universe 1 is obv all the games from gen 3 to xy sans Ruby And sapphire.

Universe 2 is gen 1, ignores gen 3 remakes of gen 1 and xy and Omega Ruby and Alpha sapphire. But is part of Sun and Moon.

Technically, couldn't you call the GB timeline something like the non canon timeline? Have RS and then DP follow Gen 2 in a linear fashion.

>>28818979
The trick master can teleport too, so I don't see it as too crazy (like they could just be using a Pokemon or something to teleport)

>>28818737
team plasma existed in the megaverse as well, but that specific grunt only existed in the old universe. What he has to say about other teams doesn't apply to the megaverse.

>>28819007
Except gen 1 connects to pokebank and sun and moon.

We are not dealing with solidified time.

>>28818995
We probably have two timelines intersecting. Your universe 2 probably never had hg ss.

Or maybe gen 2 is erased.

>>28818979
>The fact that 8 men fusing into a single human being and teleporting across Kalos seems more likely to you then it all being a giant joke and there being more than one mr. bondings says something about how deep your autism goes.
Oh so now you're using the "it's destroying my argument so it's a joke!" card
Also literally anyone can teleport or fly somewhere in an instant. This is Pokemon, not real life. Hell, YOU can teleport if you want.

>>28819041
>but that specific grunt only existed in the old universe. What he has to say about other teams doesn't apply to the megaverse.
And you can prove he doesn't exist, how?
Every other character has a mega verse counterpart. Why do you assume only he doesn't?
Also you do realise the events of these teams play out in nearly the same way just with the existence of megas, right?

>>28817953
You have to keep in mind, gamers use different teams and yellow and emearld are different.


Different games also have different pokemon not found on either a or b cart.

Another thing is where you fit it all?

>>28819041
People suddenly no longer existing is the exact sort of arguments from nowhere I mentioned. You just decided he didn't to further your argument

>>28817953
I don't see why people keep on making this shit overly complicated.

All you have to do is realize that there's one base timeline for the most part. You can simply then just retcon newly revealed shit like Megas and Pokemon always existing into the timeline.

ORAS gives some leeway for the notion of alternate dimensions, but there's no reason to over-complicate matters.

Gen I = Gen III > Gen II = Gen IV > Gen V >or= Gen VI > Gen VIII

Substitute the originals with the remakes and there you go.

>but megas!
retcons are a thing in long-running franchises

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>>28817953
Doing something

Unsure what to put in the Max drawing though, since he doesn't have any signature weapons or anything

>>28819287
Gen VII, not VIII. I goofed on that.

>>28819290
Wait lol, wrong thread on the wrong fucking board lol

>>28817953
The timelines are 100% identical between the mega and non-mega universes. Archie/Maxie tried to expand the sea/land in both, Ghetsis tried to take over Unova in both and Cyrus tried to destroy the world in both. Everything from every generation still happened despite the slight differences that mega evolution brought. Heck even Deoxys' meteor hit the Earth in both despite being directly hit by the Ultimate Weapon. The timelines are identical.

>>28819287
>but megas!
>retcons are a thing in long-running franchises
Except when the game itself brings up that if alternate dimensions are a thing, the giant laser that created Mega Stones would be the diverging point.

>>28817953
>mega universe not including FRLG, Gen 4,Gen 5 and HGSS
>GB universe
It´s based on unsourced headcanon so no.

>>28818241
There´s 4 confirmed though.
But the GB one proposed in the OP isnt.

>>28819437
There's 2 you fucking moron.

>>28817953
>Professor Elm creates the Johto pokedex
He didn't, you get the pokedex from Oak again in gen 2.

>>28819417
When the game itself brings up something that always happened, its different?

>>28819419
This, honestly

>>28819287
>All you have to do is realize that there's one base timeline for the most part.
Anon it's already been confirmed that there's at least two.

Two isn't a hard number to follow especially when the only distinction is that mega evolution exists. Everything else just slots into the same timeframe.
In other words ORAS still occurs at the same time as the events in FR/LG and XY still occurs with the BW2.

Basically
War (does with weapon) > ORAS/FRLG(m) > HGSS(m)/DPPt(m) > BW(m) > BW2(m)/XY > SM
and
War (doesn't end with weapon) > RSE/FRLG > HGSS/DPPt > BW > BW2/XY > SM

Are the only two confirmed lines. How are people finding this of all things complex?

>>28819287
ORAS does not give "some leeway" to the notion of alternate dimensions, it uses their existence as an explicit plot point. Moreover its rather clearly stated that the other dimension does not have Mega Evolution.

So what's less complicated, simply assuming that Gen I-V take place in this canonically established universe, or assuming that the alternate universe theory was simply wrong (or it was right but previous games didn't actually take place there) and retconning Megas into existence?

>retcons are a thing in long-running franchises
True, but less so for Pokemon. Game Freak often bends over backwards to prevent retcons, for example the Incense items to prevent inconsistencies in breeding.
It's pretty clear that their introduction of alternate worlds in the Delta Episode was a way to explain away Megas in Hoenn without having to retcon.

>>28818838
>Theres only two universes.
Four, Gen 5 also are stated to be 2 universes.

>>28818962
>timeline
universes

>>28819007
> couldn't you call the GB timeline something like the non canon timeline?
Yes, it´s not confirmed to be canon

RS was though so it can´t be there.

>>28819043
>Except gen 1 connects to pokebank and sun and moon.
That´s gameplay, not lore.

DPPT starts during HGSS. Remember, tv report on Gyarados?

>>28819287
>retcons are a thing in long-running franchises
ORAS clarifies its not a retcon. That´s the part most people miss.

>>28819451
Blacks and ORAS
Whites and ORAS
Blacks and RSE
Whites and RSE

4

>>28819479
Megas existing doesn't mean every game and region has megas, it means Mega Evolution exists in the universe.

>>28819480
The only thing canonically established as taking place elsewhere is RSE

>>28819541
>Megas existing doesn't mean every game and region has megas
I never said that every game and region do. Even though it's more likely than not.
Anyway just that the events in those games occurred in the same places in both universes.

It's pretty straightforward

Fuck alt timelines

>>28819595
>Fuck alt timelines
Ok, you hate the HGSS event.

We´re talking about alt universes though.

>>28819573
No its not more likely, there is literally no indication whatsoever that this is the case. In fact, we know that things can exist in one region but not the other, as the regional dexes show.

That is why these timelines lose me. It works off the assumption that games can't exist in the Mega verse without Megas being plastered all over every region, for no reason

>>28819609
kkk

>>28819595
So. Much. This.
It's dumb and stupid.
This level of autism is the same that we saw back in Gen2. "Where were the Gen2 mons when I was in RBY!?"
Sometimes.... things just change.
And that's it.

Megas are new not because of alternate timeline BS, but because they discovered how these stones will trigger changes in various Pokemon.
Same damn things with Zmoves.
Seriously, autists. We don't need 50000000000000 timelines when "times change" makes better sense.
(Not to mention we'll need new splits with EVERY gen. Dumb.)

>>28819750
Fuck, saving this.

>>28819731
lol butthurt timeline fgt arguing on 4chan get cancer

discussing a fictional series on a page notorious for people like u kys

Where does the whole alternate timelines stuff comes from? I haven't paid much attention to gen 5&6, can some1 enlighten me?

>>28819639
>there is literally no indication whatsoever that this is the case
Except for the fact that megastones just seem to be regular meteorites that have been charged by energy of some kind.
After all Maxie/Archie were planning on changing an ordinary Meteorite into a Megastone.

>In fact, we know that things can exist in one region but not the other, as the regional dexes show.
Of course, but the megastones aren't exactly Pokemon are they? Not to mention each region has some area that contains ordinary meteorites that have landed.

>It works off the assumption that games can't exist in the Mega verse without Megas being plastered all over every region
Again, I never said they had to be in the region and again it's likely that they do for several reasons even trainers travelling from other regions.
It's just that those events occur in the same places in the two timelines. This isn't a hard concept to follow infact all you really have to remember is that there's one universe with megas and one without.

And the reason megas are a central part to this is because Mega evolution and the war is what caused the divergence in timelines.

>>28819731
Fuck off you spastic forum trash. Timelimes are a thing. Covering your ears and humming loudly isn't going to change that.

>>28819804
Zinnia says there's a world without Megas, referring to how ORAS has Megas and RSE doesn't.

All the autism comes from people arguing over what exactly it means beyond that

>>28819731
In the end what we need is a fanbase with a reading comprehension on par to at least pokemon´s target audience that can accept things arent like their headcanon.

tl;dr we need a completely different fanbase.

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Pokémon consists of the following 6 timelines imo
1. Red -> Omega Ruby -> Gold -> X
2. Green -> Alpha Sapphire -> Silver -> Y
3. Blue -> Crystal -> Emerald -> Platinum
4. Yellow
5. Fire Red -> Ruby -> Heart Gold -> Diamond -> Black -> Black 2
6. Leaf Green -> Sapphire -> Soul Silver -> Pearl -> White -> White 2

>>28819804
In gen 5, an NPC says there is another universe refering to the other version.(blacks and whites are different universes)
In Gen 6 Zinnia states there´s an universe that has a Hoenn without megas(original RSE, in an universe different to ORAS).

/vp/ decided they were talking about timelines instead of universes, that FRLG, Gen 4, HGSS and Gen 5 are Hoenn regions without megas, that every single character should talk about something in order for that to exist in the same universe, that Gen 1 and 2 are canon, and that somehow Origin and even the ashnime are canon.

>>28819860
Let's all just ask Masuda or Tajiri when a opportunity arrives

>>28819837
>In the end what we need is a fanbase with a reading comprehension
Word, what's the point in conversations about the lore and what not if people aren't even going to pay attention to what's said in the game.

>>28819830
But do the reworks not override the original games?

>>28819899
FR/LG and HG/SS do.
ORAS doesn't.

>>28819810
I already remember the person in another thread saying that every meteorite should be a Mega Stone one and all the shit that caused, so I'm just going to put a pin on that. But no, I don't think some meteorites having mega stones means they're in every region.

>all you really have to remember is that there's one universe with megas and one without.
I know. That's what I already beleive

>>28819899
Yes. Like always.

>>28819883
Hmm, but if there are multiple universes with the same world and just small differences, wouldn't that mean that each universe underwent its own timeline?

And no, I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely interested in this, since I've been working on a timeline for another franchise for some years now.

>>28819909
Why would some do and some do not?

>>28819810
>this guy again

>>28819541
>The only thing canonically established as taking place elsewhere is RSE
I agree. Going a step further I think it's better to say, "the only games that canonically take place in different universes from each other are RSE and ORAS," meaning that no matter how we place the other games in the series, we have two timelines.

We have the RSE timeline, in which we know Megas do not exist
And we have the ORAS timeline, in which we know Megas do exist.

So now we have to try to place all remaining games into one of these two timelines, if possible. We'd like to avoid making a third, brand new timeline since I agree with your ideal of keeping things simple.

The remaining games Gens 1 through 5 all lack Mega Evolution, which would place them in the RSE timeline. Furthermore, since they existed long before the notion of alternate universes, I think it makes intuitive sense that all Gen 1-5 games, RSE included, would be in the same universe.
Placing the remaining Gen 1-5 games in the ORAS universe would be more complicated, since it would require retconning Megas as existing in those games, despite never being mentioned, Pokemon native to those regions having Megas, and Megas being widely known and used outside of Kalos in the Mega universe being firmly established in ORAS.
It's true that we don't have evidence in canon either way, but between the two possibilities, placing these games in the RSE timeline is simpler.
It also allows for new remakes to be easily inserted into the timeline if Game Freak so desires.

XY is easier to place, since it does have Megas. It must be in the ORAS universe, because Megas simply cannot be retconned out of XY since they're, well, there.

>>28819804
>giant meteor in ORAS is going to destroy the region
>scientists make an item called "Link Cable" that will send it to an alternate universe to get rid of it
>Zinnia pops up and goes on a long rant about alternate universes
>wants to use Mega Fug to destroy the meteor instead, since whichever universe they're sending it to is supposedly an alternate universe Hoenn that doesn't have Mega Evolution and thus has no means of destroying the meteor

>>28819860
>imo
>>28819942
>if there are multiple universes with the same world and just small differences, wouldn't that mean that each universe underwent its own timeline?
time is part of the universe, so while that is technically true, it´s as relevant to this as saying each universe has a Looker. The division introduced was for universes, not timelines.

>Why would some do and some do not?
Because RSE was stated to be the execption.

>>28819997
Well then all games exist in the same universe except for AU-ORAS.
Or was ist said that the universe Zinnia came from is RSS?

>>28819959
>We have the RSE timeline, in which we know Megas do not exist
>And we have the ORAS timeline, in which we know Megas do exist.
They are universes, not timelines.

>The remaining games Gens 1 through 5 all lack Mega Evolution, which would place them in the RSE timeline. Furthermore, since they existed long before the notion of alternate universes, I think it makes intuitive sense that all Gen 1-5 games, RSE included, would be in the same universe.
Gen 1 and 2 were remade and there´s no mention, as you already said in this post, that FRLG,HGSS, Gen 4 and 5 arent on the mega universe too.

>since it would require retconning Megas as existing in those games, despite never being mentioned
It really doesnt. The games fit as they are, not everyone should talk about megas all the time.

>It's true that we don't have evidence in canon either way, but between the two possibilities, placing these games in the RSE timeline is simpler.
Well, it would help if you actually cared about the evidence we do have.

>>28819959
>placing the other Gens in the Mega Verse would be more complicated

Except no. All of that shit you mentioned does not matter. Glaceon and Leafeon exist during FRLG despite them not being in the Kanto region. Lentimas Town existed during BW despite being inaccessible and never being mentioned.

Despite Megas existing not being incompatible with the games in any way, you just decided it can't fit, but arbitrarily

>>28819731
Except alternate universe are explicitly confirmed in-game.
Game Freak doesn't like the "times change" explanation.

"Where were the Gen2 mons when I was in RBY!?" They hadn't migrated there yet.
This explanation works perfectly fine.

"Where were Megas in RSE?" can't be answered with "They hadn't been introduced there yet" because we clearly see in ORAS an alternate version of RSE where they very much have been introduced.
Of course, you could argue that ORAS outright retcons RSE, like how FRLG outright retcons RBY (which I would argue for)

Yet Game Freak, for whatever reason, did not decide to do this and instead decided to make two universes, one where Megas exist, and one where they don't. It's clean, it's simple, it's not complicated.

>>28819959
>because Megas simply cannot be retconned out of XY since they're, well, there.
To be fair megas aren't really plot relevant. It's more the weapon that would mess things up.

>>28820035
>Well then all games exist in the same universe except for AU-ORAS.
You mean RSE and ORAS?

>Or was ist said that the universe Zinnia came from is RSS?
It wasnt specified, she stated her clan observed the RSE universe but not where she herself came from. Safe assumption is the ORAS one.

>>28817953
Or or or

There are two timelines

The remakes

and

The originals

>>28820056
>Of course, you could argue that ORAS outright retcons RSE
It can´t since it has literally been said it´s not the case. RSE is canon.

There is one aspect I don't understand.

Indeed, Zinnia puts the split as being caused by the creation of the Ultimate Weapon. Yet, when Rayq's lore dump is put on us, it's Mega is not related to the Ultimate Weapon at all.

>>28820087
Doesn't work. ORAS makes it explicitly clear that Az built a weapon in their universe, but didn't in the RSE universe. XY isn't a remake.

>>28817953
Wait, isn't the Ultimate Weapon the machine he used the resurrect Floette and make both of them immortal? I thought that the whole StS ion cannon thing was a secondary function/something it was repurposed for for the whole revenge-getting thing.

Universe one is megas

Univsrse two is megas.

Oras and and rse dont exist in the same universe.

So is it canon that Oak is 47 at the start of RB? Because he looks like he's in his 60s.

>>28820086
No, I mean all games exist in the same universe, except for the ORAS without megas (where Zinnia came from).

>>28820136
I think they were one and the same function. It used the life force of all the other pokemon to resurrect Floette.

>>28820048
>It really doesnt. The games fit as they are, not everyone should talk about megas all the time.
Not everyone, sure. But will the champions of each region as well as other powerful and ambitious people not seek out Mega Evolution?
Wouldn't Professor Rowan, who literally specialized in the study of Pokemon Evolution, at least mention Mega Evolution if not be interested in its study?
Wouldn't Colress, who traveled all over the world and was obsessed with bringing out the true power of Pokemon, pursue Mega Evolution as a way to do so?

So sure, I agree with you that it is entirely POSSIBLE that all the Gen 1-5 games take place in the Mega universe, but it would be pretty bizarre for that to be true. Everything I mentioned would have to be explained away somehow or other.
Whereas no such questions would arise by placing these games in the Non-Mega universe.

>Well, it would help if you actually cared about the evidence we do have.
Tell me about this supposed "evidence we do have"
Where is there any evidence that any other games take place in the Mega universe?

>>28820054
>Despite Megas existing not being incompatible with the games in any way, you just decided it can't fit, but arbitrarily
You're right, Gens 1-5 aren't completely incompatible with the Mega timeline, they're just MORE compatible with the Non-Mega timeline.
They have to be SOMEWHERE in ONE of the universes, why not put them in the one that requires less retconning?

You guys are making things needlessly complicated.

>>28820164
> I mean all games exist in the same universe, except for the ORAS without megas
There´s no proof this is the case. The only explicit splits are Blacks and Whites and ORAS and RSE.
Nothing is said about the rest.

>(where Zinnia came from)
Never stated.

Gen 6 is entirely in the mega universe.

Rest are not.

>>28820127
The difference Zinnia talks about are megas, like Mega Rayquaza.

>>28820215
[citation needed]

>>28820100
Did you miss the part in my post immediately after that line where I also say that isn't possible?

Learn to fucking read, people.

>>28820164
Can you make a worthwhile addition to the thread?
All of your posts are just injecting headcanon into everything.

>>28820232
Because how the character states megas don't exist in the other world, and one gen 5 game mentions evos happening different.

>>28817953
Mega universe doesn't have oak?

Opinion discarded

>>28820211
But the burden of proof lies with those making the claim that not all games take place in the same universe.
And again, where ORAS and RSE specifically named? Or did Zinnia just say "this universe and that universe"?
Because from what I can gather, it's just an assumption that the universe Zinnia comes from is RSE. It could very well be an AU-ORAS and RSE has been overwritten in the normal universe.

>>28820207
Why is Rowan not mentioning it to you evidence of him not knowing it? And small retcons like that are common in the pokemon games. You are implying that we know everything about every character and every area and that it all needs an explanation, and then calling us needlessly complicating when we say "but the games have shown this to not be the case."

There is no explanation for why we never hear about the new places in BW2 (outside Humilau)

There is no explanation as to why we never see the place your mother buys a Focus Sash or Berries in Johto.

Not every aspect of the entire Pokemon world needs to be witnessed by the player in order for it to exist at any given moment.

>>28820236
I'm not injecting anything into anything. I couldn't care less about this whole thread, I'm just curious about the topic that is timelines/alternate universes. I mean I don't even know who Zinnia is.
You guys can bash your heads in for all I care.

>>28820232
>A world where maybe the evolution of Pokémon took a slightly different path, where Mega Evolution is unknown... A world where that war 3,000 years ago...never happened. A world where the ultimate weapon was never even built.

Hmmm...it doesn't really say. Are these events related, or is she listing two different things?

Pokemon has yet to write the official two universes thing.

Megas don't exist in the other honeen or rse.

>>28820127
>Yet, when Rayq's lore dump is put on us, it's Mega is not related to the Ultimate Weapon at all.
Megas and the Ultimate Weapon are two different things but neither exist in the non-megaverse. So those are the two defining differences.

>>28820131
It does.

The originals don't get replaced until remakes are made. So it'd still be

For the timeline featuring remakes
>FRLG = ORAS -> HGSS = DPPt -> BW -> BW2 = XY -> SM

And the original timeline, without remakes
>RBGY = RSE -> GSC = DPPt -> BW -> BW2 = XY -> SM

>>28820233
>Did you miss the part in my post immediately after that line where I also say that isn't possible?
I did, but I found it weird since if you had it right then you wouldnt say its possible to argue RSE has been retconned since its not. But if you have it right then I have nothing else to say.

>>28820261
>megas don't exist in the other world
She talks about a Hoenn without megas. The rest can perfectly exist in the same universe as gen 6.

>>28820282
>But the burden of proof lies with those making the claim that not all games take place in the same universe.
It was stated in Delta Episode and Gen 5.

>And again, where ORAS and RSE specifically named? Or
Of course not, she mentions a Hoenn without mega evolutions. Where is that featured?

>it's just an assumption that the universe Zinnia comes from is RSE
You are literally the only person saying this.

> It could very well be an AU-ORAS and RSE has been overwritten in the normal universe.
Who said ORAS cant happen on the same region as, say, XY?

>>28820321
The format implies she´s listing two differences. But it can be a translation issue.

>>28820321
Where Mega isnt known. Also evos happening differently.

States two universes.

>>28820327
>Pokemon has yet to write the official two universes thing.
play Delta Episode

>>28820310
Then why bother participating in a thread you don't know all the details of?

>>28820342
ORAS doesnt replace RSE in the same way HGSS and FRLG do for RGBY and GSC.

>>28820353
>It was stated in Delta Episode and Gen 5.
>Of course not, she mentions a Hoenn without mega evolutions. Where is that featured?
From what I can gather, it only stated that there's an alternate universe version of ORAS where megas don't exist.

>You are literally the only person saying this.
I am not saying anything, I'm just asking things to get an understanding of the whole issue.

>Who said ORAS cant happen on the same region as, say, XY?
Nobody, why?

>>28820207
>Wouldn't Colress, who traveled all over the world and was obsessed with bringing out the true power of Pokemon, pursue Mega Evolution as a way to do so?
Yeah and if you played XY you would know that an NPC talks about Colress and how he studied the rocks outside of Geosenge.

Even though it is stated that BW2 occurs at the same time as XY, some events from BW2 happen before some of the events in XY, just like how some events in HGSS occur before some events in DPPt (Player starts his journey during the Red Gyarados encounter)

>>28820363
You do realise that whole line is referring to a single universe right?
The evolutionary difference is that Mega Evolution doesn't exist in that universe.

>>28820353
A world without Mega evos means the entire other world not just hoenn. Where they never existed at all.

It's quite obvious Megas don't exist in the other world and not just for that worlds hoenn.

>>28820392
Explain how?

>>28820392
Why not? the way the other games replace each other is never stated. This is entirely arbitrary

>>28820381
Because I'm interested in the topic of timelines/AUs, as I said.

>>28820413
>some events from BW2 happen before some of the events in XY
Such as?

>>28820451
>an NPC talks about Colress and how he studied the rocks outside of Geosenge.

Oh look, it's another "It's not just a kids game that cross-references other games in the series without actually considering any larger timeline - it's definitely a well conceived, branching timeline/multiverse!" episode

>>28820445
Then you do the research BEFORE you participate in a conversation or at the very least ask for details you're fuzzy on instead of injecting information that doesn't matter or isn't confirmed.

>>28820411
>From what I can gather, it only stated that there's an alternate universe version of ORAS where megas don't exist.
Well, she wont refer to the games as games in-universe anon.

>I am not saying anything, I'm just asking things to get an understanding of the whole issue.
You brought that up though.

>Nobody, why?
You´re suggesting there´s an AU with only ORAS there.

>>28820435
>A world without Mega evos means the entire other world not just hoenn. Where they never existed at all.
Yes. And?
There´s no mention of an Unova with/without megas. It can very well ve that they just dont appear there.
The only explicit difference is RSE-ORAS, until further confirmation, Unova(and everything else, I use it as example) can happen in both.

>>28820438
Play Delta Episode.

>>28820442
The other games have been remade. Whether the case is the same as in ORAS or not hasnt been said.

>>28820471
Exactly what I'm thinking.
People put way too much thought into this. I mean, the topic itself is interesting, but the people here are really overdoing it.

>>28820465
That just means he was there at some point in time not that they don't occur at the same time.

>>28820413
>Yeah and if you played XY you would know that an NPC talks about Colress and how he studied the rocks outside of Geosenge.
To me, this implies that the Colress of the Mega universe does pursue Mega evolution, and that a remake of BW2 in the Mega universe would probably give Colress a Mega.

Not who you're replying to, by the way.

>>28817953
>Professor Elm creates the Jotho Pokédex
This goes to show how little care has been put into making that chart.

Anyway, isn't there a text on pokémon transferred from older gens through bank that states that they come from another dimension? I might be wrong on this since I can't find the exact text

>>28820127
yes and what does make rayquaza's mega evolution different from every other mega pokemon in existence? The lack of mega stone! All the other mega evolutions are tied to the ultimate weapon and require mega stones, raqyaza instead prefers to dine on meteorites which also allows for mega evolution.

>>28820127
Zinnia mentions that there was a meteor shower 3000 years ago that resulted in the first appearance of Mega Fug. She also says that mega evolution is the direct result of that weapon. The implication is that all of the Mega Meteorites are the result of Az's weapon also irradiating a bunch of a space rocks that still fall down to Earth from time to time.

>>28820496
Are you saying ORAS is not a remake of RSE?

>>28820451
That one NPC that talks about Game Sync and the Professor from BW who made it?

Or the NPC in the hotel side quest that asks you to find his Brycen-Man figures, and Brycen-Man film only become popular when the player from BW2 features in the movies

>>28820499
It's not that people are overthinking this just that people are somehow getting confused at the concept of two timelines.

>>28820517
It changes the message from "after a journey through time" to "traveled across space and time" when you send a Pokemon to gen 6.

>>28820483
Did you read what I wrote? I stated an alternate possibility.

>>28820496
>Well, she wont refer to the games as games in-universe anon.
>You´re suggesting there´s an AU with only ORAS there.
And here's the problem. To me, it seems some are assuming that because Zinnia comes from a universe without megas, it has to be RSE, when it could very well be ORAS, just without megas.

>You brought that up though.
Yes, because I'm trying to get an understanding of the problem at hand.

>>28817953
Original Timeline [1996 - 2000]: RBY = (RSE) > GSC = (DPPt) > (BW) > (BW2) > (XY) > (SM)
Remake Timeline [2002 - 2012]: FRLG = RSE > HGSS = DPPt > BW > BW2 > (XY) > (SM)
Mega Timeline [2013 - present]: (FRLG) = ORAS > (HGSS) = (DPPt) > (BW) > (BW2) > XY > SM

Games in parentheses presumably have their events, or some version of them, take place in that universe even though the game itself does not occur there.
e.g. XY establishes that villainous teams from various regions still existed and executed their plans, but we don't have games in the Mega universe for those events.
Brackets denote release dates of the games themselves, Game Freak never goes back and makes another game in a timeline they're done with.

Streamlined version without parenthetical titles:
Original Timeline [1996 - 2000]: RBY > GSC
Remake Timeline [2002 - 2012]: FRLG = RSE > HGSS = DPPt > BW > BW2
Mega Timeline [2013 - present]: ORAS > XY > SM

>>28820342
>The originals don't get replaced until remakes are made
nice headcanon that has no basis in reality whatseover. Stop sticking to that fucking tweet that game freak deleted and just play the actual delta episode.

>>28820508
It could simply imply Colress went to Kalos to study Geosenge and then went back to Unova

>>28820517
Trading is just a game mechanic

>>28820531
What's so confusing about it? At one point, an event happened that ended in a specific result and in a different universe, the event did not happen.

>>28820496
There's also no mention either that black and white have to happen in the same universe either or the same regions both exist on two worlds.

Kalos could have a version with no Megas.

>>28820539
>And here's the problem. To me, it seems some are assuming that because Zinnia comes from a universe without megas, it has to be RSE, when it could very well be ORAS, just without megas.
Zinnia isn't from an alternate universe.
Also, the item that links between universes is literally called the Link Cable. What do you think Game Freak is implying?

>>28820542
there is no proof that oras takes place before xy in either xy or oras. All the proof you keep providing is hints in games taking place in a differnet universe and then claiming they're somehow still valid in a completely different one.

>>28820544
The Tweet wasnt deleted by "Game Freak" and is still more canon than your headcanon. It is in now way contradicted by the Delta Episode

>>28820499
Discussion is fine, but when these threads become all about how
>"I have a complete understanding of the timeline due to bits of arbitrary NPC dialogue!"
That's when you need to simmer down, take a step back and consider the fact that you're trying to rationalise alternate timelines in a series of children's games that consistently retcons and references without consideration for any of these theories

>>28820573
>there is no proof that oras takes place before xy in either xy or oras.
Oh boy, this argument again.

Mr. Bonding, ect, ect.

>>28820525
It is, but the way the both relate each other in-universe is different than the way it happened to the other remakes.

Unless further confirmation.

>>28820539
> some are assuming that because Zinnia comes from a universe without megas
for the billionth time, no one but you said this, Zinnia said she observed the other universe, we dont know on which one she was born it and it doesnt matter at all.

>comes from a universe without megas, it has to be RSE, when it could very well be ORAS, just without megas
RSE=Hoenn, no megas
ORAS=Hoenn+megas

If anything, it´s a Hoenn region, not ORAS. That said, aside from the fact that they wont refer to the games as games in-universe there´s also the fact that the quote was there as a nod to the original RSE(as is the special diploma you get if you have a mon from there) more than a way to create a pokemon multiverse.

>Yes, because I'm trying to get an understanding of the problem at hand.
And you made that part up.

>>28820570
>There's also no mention either that black and white have to happen in the same universe
That doesnt go against what I said at all. And they are stated to happen in different universes to each other.

>Kalos could have a version with no Megas.
Sure, it can. Which game does that appear or get referenced?

>>28820572
Then how does she know about the alternate universe without megas? I thought that was the whole point.

>>28820550
>It could simply imply Colress went to Kalos to study Geosenge and then went back to Unova
Yes, I'm not arguing that. Though since the NPC who says this is in the Mega universe, the Colress who visited Geosenge isn't the Colress we know. Colress likely wouldn't visit Geosenge in the Non-Mega universe, since it wouldn't have anything to do with the latent power of Pokemon.

>>28820586
>"I have a complete understanding of the timeline due to bits of arbitrary NPC dialogue!"
All NPC dialogue is arbitrary, is a video game. And there´s nothing wrong with basing your knowledge of it using it. This is only contested in the pokemon fanbase.

>the fact that you're trying to rationalise alternate timelines in a series of children's games that consistently retcons and references without consideration for any of these theories
Theories shouldnt matter, facts do, and they introduced the concept of other universes(not timelines) in an explicit way.

>>28820592
yet the PSS in oras is an updated version of the one in xy, weird how throwaway game mechanics affect timelines now

Old timeline

RBGY without Megas/Fairy-type = RSE without Megas/Fairy-type >> GSC without Megas/Fairy-type = DPPt without Megas/Fairy-type >> BW without Megas/Fairy-type >> BW2 without Megas/Fairy-type

Current timeline

RBGY with Megas/Fairy-type = ORAS with Megas/Fairy-type >> GSC with Megas/Fairy-type = DPPt with Megas/Fairy-type >> BW with Megas/Fairy-type >> BW2 with Megas/Fairy-type = XY with Megas/Fairy-type

/thread

Kanto = Hoenn > Johto = Sinnoh > 1st Unova > 2nd Unova = Kalos

That's it, that's the timeline. This isn't rocket science. What ORAS talks about it's different UNIVERSES, which is Gamefreak's way of not telling us which version of the games is canon. What changes between universes is stuff like male vs femal protag, the legendary they found, original vs remake.

Use the version you like the most for the story in your head. But the order of events is always the same.

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>it's a "/vp/ argues about timelines and gets nowhere" episode

>>28820605
Sun and moon has xy characters, heck megas could be removed.

Anyway, it's obvious the universes official canon are not written yet or finalized.

>>28820618
Never explained.

>>28820605
Well then scratch >>28820618, looks like I misunderstood >>28819969.

>>28820631
PSS is a game mechanic. The Mr. Bonding scene is a story sequence.

>>28820528
>That one NPC that talks about Game Sync and the Professor from BW who made it?
Black and White occur before Black and White 2 anon. Come on, fix up anon.

>Or the NPC in the hotel side quest that asks you to find his Brycen-Man figures
Brycen was an actor long before you came along.

>>28820305
Like I said, it's possible that those games DID take place in the Mega timeline. I'm not denying that possibility.
I'm just saying it makes MORE sense for them to be in the non-Mega universe.
Do you have an argument to the contrary? Is there something that's harder to explain if they take place in the non-Mega universe that I've missed?

>>28820413
>Yeah and if you played XY you would know that an NPC talks about Colress and how he studied the rocks outside of Geosenge.
So we know Colress exists in both universes, and that the Mega universe Colress is familiar and interested in Kalos and most likely also Mega Evolution. This seems to prove my point more than yours.

>Even though it is stated that BW2 occurs at the same time as XY, some events from BW2 happen before some of the events in XY
Those weren't the events of BW2, those were equivalent events that happened in the Mega universe.

I'm not arguing that nothing from gens 1-5 occurred in the Mega timeline, I'm just arguing that the version we got in the games themselves, was the version of events that happened in the non-Mega timeline.

You just know there's some huge nerd at GF that is putting all those references in the games and makes sure they all fit his headcanon. I'm willing to bet Masuda himself doesn't give a shit about this

>>28820592
also what etcetera, mr. bonding is literally the only argument you've ever provided and as proven over and over again it's a retarded one that doesn't hold water

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There's really just three.
>1: Regular- rby>gsc>rse>dppt>bw>b2w2
>2: mega- ???>xy?oras>sm*
>3: remake- frlg>hgss>oras
*appearance of dexio and sina and their dialogue, i believe, makes sm take place after xy and/or oras

>>28820666
it's literally just the o-power game mechanic, there's no story. You really just make up your own rules as you go along don't you?

>>28820631
>>28820666
If one wants to be picky about it the PSS in ORAS is a previous version that doesn't allow for the sending of videos.

>>28820647
Univereses and timelines are two different things.

Each universe could have many timelines.

Universe M or Universe NM.
Universe with no Megas will eventually have to come back.

>>28820652
>Sun and moon has xy characters, heck megas could be removed.
Yes. That doesnt contradict what I said tho.

>>28820677
Proof on RBY and GSC being canon?
Proof on DPPT,FRLG,HGSS,Gen 5 not coexisting with XY and each other?

>>28820677
Dexio could be from a mega less universe.

>>28820672
>that doesn't hold water
So why doesn't it hold water?
Are you just trying to say that it's not canon because you have no argument against it? I see you time and time again to try and argue against it but you never have anything solid to counter.

>>28820687
The post-game scene of the bonding brothers fusing has nothing to do with the o-powers mechanic, aside from involving the characters who give it to you.

>>28820689
yeah it does, it has malva in every announcement and she looks exactly the same as she does in xy, which supposedly takes place like 10 years after if some of you here are to be believed.

>>28820700
Theres no proof otherwise.

Until the pokemon company sets it straight for once and all.

>>28820626
Bear in mind that I think they're talking about the same Colress, and that's what my post is implying.

>>28820647
Again, this

>>28820669
My argument is that it doesnt. It doesnt inherently make more sense, as any and all issue making them incompatible is very minor and examples of similar things happening are all over.

For me, since I beleive the timeline that was tweeted, XY is in the same timeline as every other game. ORAS is in the same timeline as XY. So it's all one timeline. There, I just explained the entire timeline with 3 sentences of explanation. It is the most simple, and leaves absolutely no contradictions whatsoever. So I use it.

>>28820743
I'm talking about PVs anon.
That feature is missing in ORAS.

>>28820700
hi richard
xy//oras cant coexist with any of the others because of the lack of mention of mega evos, something as big as that wouldn't go without direct mention somewhere. especially with the giant fucking statue of mega lucario in kalos

>>28820677
typo:
>3: remake- frlg>hgss
no oras

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>>28818078
It's a /vp/ redraw of this

>>28820722
>thinking that 8 men fusing into a 1 is a canon thing to happen in the pokemon universe and not just a throwaway joke
literally how retarded would you have to be

>>28820755
>and leaves absolutely no contradictions whatsoever.
Except that Gen 5 occurs in the non mega universe while XY does.

>>28820743
Nobody in the this bloody franchise shows visible signs of aging, other than a couple of Kanto gym leaders. (most of whom look the same age with a different fashion sense)

>>28820761
Did a region as big as Unova not exist during HGSS because it was never mentioned?

>>28820747
>Theres no proof otherwise.
So you will just abritrarily split the games in different universes because GF didnt say your division is wrong? I can take your bs and say HGSS is an entirely different universe alone and be as right as your are. Burden of proof is on you anon.

>>28820761
>hi richard
>using games content makes me richard

>xy//oras cant coexist with any of the others because of the lack of mention of mega evos, something as big as that wouldn't go without direct mention somewhere.
>They can coexist because you are not told literally every aspect of the pokemon world
By your "logic" no game can happen in the same verse as any other. So no proof then.

>especially with the giant fucking statue of mega lucario in kalos
>Kalos
You mean the region that appears on XY?

>>28820772
It's a joke, but it was very obviously made to be a (very silly) origin story for the XY character.

>>28820787
Proof on Gen 5 not happening in the same universe as XY?

>>28820630
>NPC dialogue
The difference is there's too many inconsistencies between lines of dialogue and where people conceive the games to take place on any single timeline (in any of the games) for any of these theories. The fact that there's no unifying theory by now reflects this.

>they introduced the concept of other universes(not timelines) in an explicit way.
Literally a nod to the other games and a way to implement Hoopa, and, more importantly, allow for the capture of legendaries from other games.

It's all just a bit of fun/fan service for older players

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>>28820573
ORAS is the alternate universe counterpart of RSE. They take place at the same time.
XY references events in Mega-BW2, which is concurrent with the actual BW2, which takes place long after RSE

>>28820772
We have immortal giants, flying into space on dragons, literal gods of space and time, Pokemon that split from a single mon because their masters got in a hissy fit and psychics are a normal thing.

How is FIVE guys giving their power to another guy unbelievable to you in this series?

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>>28817953
Whoa this thread exploded when I was working on a diagram.

What should I fix?

>>28820816
the statue is ancient and thus means that megas have been around for a long time, and the advancement of technology shown in the games means that contact between regions is very possible that word would eventually go around

>>28820787
That isnt a contradiction, that's your theory. You're using your thoughts on the games as an "official contradiction" to information only formed from official sources.

>>28820772
Something happening before your very eyes, and during the main game, isnt canon because you decided it was too silly?

>>28820845
Everything

>>28820845
>mixing spinoffs and anime with the main games
Fuck off.

>>28820816
>>28820859
also devil's proof lmao
>captcha: select all images with stop signs

>>28820845
Oh, forgot that BW2 and XY happened around the same time, will fix.

>>28820816
You have no proof either. You are using your own headcannon as fact, when it's not.

When it's obviously gamefreak never finalized the universes yet.

>>28820845
You're just trying over-complicate this for the hell of it, aren't you?

>>28820832
>Proof on Gen 5 not happening in the same universe as XY?
The fact mega evolution exists in XY and not in Gen 5. And no mention of it either when Mega Evolution is a well known fact by that point.

>inb4 but it might not be seen!
That relies on a whole bunch of unlikely assumptions. Especially for regions like Unova and Kalos which seem to have an abundance of NPCs from previous regions like Hoenn.

>>28820755
>XY is in the same timeline as every other game.
Which would naturally include RSE
>ORAS is in the same timeline as XY
Which means that RSE and ORAS are in the same timeline according to you.

Except they're not, that doesn't make any sense. How can the events of RSE and ORAS both occur?

>>28820833
>The difference is there's too many inconsistencies between lines of dialogue and where people conceive the games to take place on any single timelin
There really arent, people just can´t be bothered to interpret said lines.

>n any single timeline (in any of the games) for any of these theories
I´ve yet to see a contradiction with the way I see it.
Also, remember the timeline posted by the scenario writer? It pretty much confirmed the most accepted timeline the fandom had before it with the only difference being that XY was at the same time as B2W2(there wasnt a concesus on that).

>The fact that there's no unifying theory by now reflects this.
Or it might be that the pokemon fanbase lacks basic reading comprehension skills or experience with other franchises as staying mroe than 5 minutes on /vp/ should reflect.

>Literally a nod to the other games
so?

> a way to implement Hoopa
Hoopa hasn othing to do with this and we proved on a lore thread that it can´t go to other universes.

>>28820672
The eldest chatelaine says that they're planning to move to Kalos and leave Hoenn.
Of course, just like with Mr. Bonding, it's not outright stated that this is happening before X/Y

>>28820859
>>28820921
Megas are barely talked about in Kalos, much less be common in every region

>>28820922
It included RSE until ORAS replaced it. Now RSE is in that non-Mega verse. It is honestly, incredibly simple

>>28820859
>the statue is ancient and thus means that megas have been around for a long time
So? I dont constantly talk about ancient cultures all over the world. If anything that proves they can happen in the same verse.

>the advancement of technology shown in the games means that contact between regions is very possible that word would eventually go around
Yes, it´s possible. Prove it HAD to happen in a way related with the information we were given on pre gen 6 games.

>>28820900
>You have no proof either.
How? The way I see it has yet to be contradicted.

>>28820921
>The fact mega evolution exists in XY and not in Gen 5.
ME wasnt mentionedi n Gen 5 but you were never explicitly told it doesnt exist there.

>And no mention of it either when Mega Evolution is a well known fact by that point.
They also dont mention Battle subway in HGSS. So I guess Gen 4 and 5 are completely different universes.

>That relies on a whole bunch of unlikely assumptions.
No, it relies on the information we have been told which doesnt include Gen 5 and 6 being on different universes. It´s your opinion that relies on assumptions.

>>28820866
Elaborate.
>>28820870
The fact that you can send over Manaphy and other pokemon from the Ranger games, the fact that you can send over pokemon from the Gamecube games, they may not be part of the "main series", they are still connected.

As for the anime, I thought that Origins was basically an anime adaptation of RGBY/FRLG so they didn't have to recreate the games in the Megastone universe. The reason the Mega Evolution Special is there is because Alain was mentioned in ORAS. Maybe it's not connected, probably can be removed.

guys, please explain:

why is it bad to have two universes/timelines?

we simply have one in which megas did happen, and one in which they didn't.

end of the story.

the first one includes every game up to BW2 (no megas)

the second one starts with XY (megas)

I mean the very idea comes from characters in the game, and when we start judging story dialogue as bullshit, then what counts as acceptable source? the Website to the games?

I geniuly don't understand whats the problem.

With that said, OP's timeline is bullshit and overcomplicated

>>28821054
Your timeline includes spinoff games, anime, and stuff only connected by trading. When it comes to needlessly complicating things, It cant get much better than this.

>>28820961
>It included RSE until ORAS replaced it. Now RSE is in that non-Mega verse. It is honestly, incredibly simple
No, XY established a new universe, with ORAS being the RSE of the new universe.
That too is incredibly simple, no more complicated than yours.

A big advantage is that my theory will more easily support future remakes.

If they make a DP remake with Megas, then with my hypothesis, they would simply insert the DP remake into the Mega universe concurrently with the original DPPt in the original universe.

With your theory, they would have to insert the DP remake into the main universe, and then kick out the original DPPt into the special non-Mega universe.

Why not just assume that old games are in the non-Mega universe already, so that we don't have to kick them out of the main timeline?

>>28821084
Not many people are arguing that there's multiple universes/timelines

but

>the first one includes every game up to BW2 (no megas)
>the second one starts with XY (megas)

That's where people disagree. And since you're implying XY came before ORAS, I disagree too

>>28821043
Mega evos existed in the other universe as common fact. The other universe has no Megas at all. Gen 3 to 5 exist in a mega less universe.

Black and white has no mention of Megas whatsoever. And you know they will eventually remake that game too with Megas.

>>28821084
>why is it bad to have two universes/timelines?
It requires reading comprehension skills a bit lower than pokemon´s target audience to correctly understand, which is way smarter than most of the pokemon fanbase´s.

>the second one starts with XY (megas)
See? You have no proof of it and already think you get it.

> then what counts as acceptable source?
Pokemon fanbase considers headcanon as a valid source over the games.

In what universe does pokemon go take place?

>>28821150
Ours

>>28821140
Xy happens in the same time with oras, even alternative worlds don't have to have the same flow of time or events.

Look at Marvel vs ulitimate Marvel.

>>28821144
>Gen 3 to 5 exist in a mega less universe.
Where´s your proof the events of FRLG, HGSS,DPPT and Gen 5 can´t happen in an universe with megas.
Zinnia´s statement only applied to a Hoenn. That rules out RSE only.

>Black and white has no mention of Megas whatsoever.
Again, you should be told every piece of info from other games in every game, logic which, if you are consistent, would render all of this moot.

>And you know they will eventually remake that game too with Megas.
Where can I buy these remakes?

>>28821135
>XY established a new universe
No? Even without the twitter Timeline, XY did not do this at all.

>With your theory, they would have to insert the DP remake into the main universe, and then kick out the original DPPt into the special non-Mega universe.
Yes. And when that happens, I will do just that.

You're asking me why not assume something, and the answer is that none of my timeline is based on assumptions. If I assume anything then I'm making it worse than it was before. Until something new comes along and replaces the old information, the old information is just....information.

>>28821140
>>28821147

don't get me wrong

i'm talking about the order of releases. XY is the first RELEASED game from the mega universe.

Honestly, i have no clue which one comes first in terms of progression

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>>28821177
In the future? Every gen gets remade.

>>28821144
Aspertia City is a common fact in BW2 but was not mentioned in BW. BW and BW2 different universes confirmed

>>28821242
Except that it's a direct sequel from the same timeline.
Try again anon

>>28821224
>Honestly, i have no clue which one comes first in terms of progression
FRLG and RSE in one universe.
FRLG and ORAS in the other.

>>28821241
And for all we know, they can just reboot the series in a completely different universe. Using games that doesnt exist wont help your argument, use the ones that exist to argue about that has been stated.

>>28821242
Nope nigger. Different timelines in the universe with no Megas.

Your reading comprension is retarded.

>>28820339
This would at least imply that the presence of Megas caused the war and thus the weapon to be developed. We have no record of any other Mega than Rayquaza prior to the war.

According to Zinnia, the meteor that formed Sootopolis caused this Mega evolution. The formation of Sootopolis happened in the other timeline, too. Was it a different meteor? Even if that, did it not open a hole to a well of Primal energies deep within the earth? The ancient Rayquaza was able to suppress Kyogre and Groudon before, even in their Primal forms. However, Mega Rayq is given as the reason they lost their primal forms to begin with. The problem then becomes if Primals existed in the other world, since how did they lose their forms originally, unless they never had them at all? The only way for that to possible is that the Mega verse was literally born of power creep. It naturally possesses more energy than the other world.

>>28821267
Using your own head canon won't work either.

>>28821273
>We have no record of any other Mega than Rayquaza prior to the war.
Mega Ray happened some time after the war as AZ was there to witness it.

>>28821267
FRLG does not contain mega evolutions, Origins does, but is muh anime xd

>>28821290
What part of what I said is headcanon?

>>28821300
>FRLG does not contain mega evolutions
So?

>Origins does, but is muh anime
Exactly.

>>28821265
>>28821269
The argument was that Megas cant exist if it's not mentioned in every region and well known, even though you can traverse an entire region and not hear about the Pokemon version of Hollywood right below Driftveil City

>>28821311
>So?

Meaning FRLG is not part of the Mega Stone universe

just like the RGBY/GSC/RBE/HGSS/BW2 games we have played are not part of the mega stone universe.

>>28821337
+DPPt

>>28821208
>the answer is that none of my timeline is based on assumptions
Sure it is, you're assuming that every game by default takes place in the same timeline. We have to make "assumptions," there is nothing that's "just information" when new information changes how we look at old information.

Think of it like this.
XY comes along. Both you and me assume that XY happens in the same universe as every other game. Neither of us have any reason to think otherwise, so we just take this assumption for granted
Then ORAS comes along. We both assume it happens in the same universe as XY, which we also assumed took place in the same universe as previous games, including RSE.
But, we're given the information that ORAS and RSE happen in different universes.

So we have a contradiction.

The two of us simply give up different assumptions.

I give up the assumption that XY happens in the same universe as every other game, placing it together with ORAS in a new universe, which fixes the problem.

You give up on the assumption that RSE happens in the same universe as every other game, placing it in its own universe, which also fixes the problem.

I'm just arguing that the assumption I give up makes more sense to give up.

>>28821293
What then? Did power creep cause the war too?

>>28820936
>People can't be bothered
>I´ve yet to see a contradiction with the way I see it
>Or it might be that the pokemon fanbase lacks basic reading comprehension skills or experience with other franchises
>so?
>we proved it in a lore thread

*unsheaths katana*

Heh.. Finally..... a worthy opponent!

>>28821337
So if SM doesnt contain Megas in it's main game, does that mean it's not in the Mega Verse?

>>28821337
>Meaning FRLG is not part of the Mega Stone universe
It means we havent been told about or encountered mega evolutions there. By your logic, it cant be on the same universe as HGSS since there´s no pokegear.

>>28821393
Seems like a possibility.

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Damn, GameFreak can't even make Easter Eggs without the fans taking this shit to a whole new level.

Loving how we blow stuff out of proportions.

>>28821393
According to separatists, if a game talks about anything else other than mega evolutions it cant happen with Gen 6. So they dont really need to play Gen 7.

>>28821273
Specific quote being
>A witness to this series of events, a tall visitor from a distant land, said, “It is the Δ (Delta), born of the great disturbances in this world. By the bonds born of mankind's wish and the power of the stones, it will calm the troubles that plague the world.” That was when the Draconids constructed their great tower, to hold the rainbow stone that had granted Rayquaza its power, and to try to get a little bit closer to Rayquaza in the heavens above.

So the exact series of events were
>First clash of the primals several generations ago
>Small meteors at meteor falls attract Ray
>Ray defeats the primals
>second Meteor shower with a giant one that formed Sootopolis 1000 years later
>Meteor releases the earth's energy and awakens the primals
>Ray Mega Evolves and defeats the primals and takes away their primal forms. AZ witnesses these events
>Draconids build Sky Pillar

>>28821377
We have no idea what caused the war. It might have just been a dispute between another region.

>>28821405
What if the Pokegear was made after the events of FRLG?

>>28821435
You really don't know the different between a mention and going
>MEGA EVOLUTION MEGA EVOLUTION MEGA EVOLUTION FUCK YOU MEGA EVOLUTION
Do you.

It's the fact that NO ONE knows about it like it's a completely foreign concept.

>>28821373
But my potint is that it's not an easier one to give up.

We have seen remakes take the place of original games twice already. And when DPPt comes along, we both agree that it will happen again. Nothing has made the tradition of remakes being the one in the "main universe" now different. Not even any of Zinnia's statements. Using purely the games and things related to it, I have come to this conclusion and it makes perfect sense to me
That is me using stuff that happened in the franchise already. My assumption is coming from looking purely at what has already happened in the franchise.

>>28821470
That would make sense.
Making the Gear as Silph's answer to the Nav.

>>28821484
does anyone mention Split Evolutions in FRLG? I know that time based evolutions are most likely never mentioned.

>>28821514
My point is that if a DPPt remake comes around, you'll have to give up on another assumption and I won't.
The difference between ORAS and previous remakes is that previous remakes don't contain explicit references to taking place in an alternate universe from the game they're replacing.
If the story of FRLG mentioned that it takes place in a different universe than RBY, I would assume that RBY and GSC are in the old universe while FRLG and RSE are in the new one.

>>28821575
I dont have to give up on another assumption as remakes replacing originals is a fact that I have seen playing the game. It fits in right along with everything else

I'm sorry, I cannot support the world of idiots theory since advanced concepts have existed since the beginning. You would have to be fucking blind to not be able to observe type differences, and breeding would exist regardless of the world, even the original one, so someone had to have observed baby pokemon at some point. Evolutions, too, if they are induced by a naturally occurring element. (note that some evos occur even if they otherwise are induced by something that could be said to be manmade)

>>28821441
So, Mega verse just being created with more energy plausible? AZ's statement seems to imply that it was indeed the presence of the Primals that made Mega Rayq necessary. The Primals were only possible because of a greater concentration of energy on the ancient planet.

>>28821393
Megas are known thing in the mega verse. And myths around it.

The other world has no megas at all. None.

Universe without megas
FRLG = RSE > HGSS = DPP > BW > BW2 = Events of a Non Mega Kalos >=? Events of a Non Mega Alola

Mega Timelins
Events of a Mega Aware Kanto (Something like Origins) = ORAS > Events of Mega Aware Johto = Events of Mega Aware Sinnoh > Events of Mega Aware Unova > XY >=? Sun and Moon

Everything still happens pretty much the sams in both universes since the follow a singular timeline, but when something like " Oaks grandson said Smell Ya Later" is mentioned in XY its a completely different version of Blue. Him saying smell ya later happens in both timelines but in two different settings, one with megas and one without. Same thing with Team Plasma being mentioned in XY, the events still happen just in this newer universe where they were most likely influenced by megas/primals/what have you. Theres also a reason Pokemon say TRAVELLED THROUGH SPACE AND TIME when transferred. Jesus people how are you not getting this?

>>28821654
Magnemite was just Electric type in RGBY
In GSC, Steel and Dark type was discovered, Magnemite was discoverd to actually have another type

but

Magnemite was Electric/Steel type in FRLG
Dark and other Steel type pokemon were in FRLG (and Colosseum/GoD).

What about the Fairy type though?
It was "Recently" discovered in XY, but existed in ORAS. Maybe the events in ORAS were recent enough in XY?

>>28821777
Let me ammend this amd say Mega universe instead of mega timeline. I'm typing quickly in class

>>28821777
Universe with Megas, entire gen 6.

Universe with no Megas gen 3 to 5 plus Sun and moon.

Gen 1 and 2 exist away from this.

>>28817953
SM puts Oak in Mega Universe too.

>>28821793
I'm saying that even cavemen would understand how types work.

>>28821821
No megas in sun and moon.

>>28821820
No

>>28821777
I like your timeline, but the paragraph is dumb. Trading mechanics are just trading mechanics. And "he events still happen just in this newer universe where they were most likely influenced by megas/primals/what have you." is dumb as Megas existing doesnt mean they need to affect events, as SM has shown.

>>28822037
Um yes. You have no proof.

Whereas mine is facts.

Mega Glalie merchandise, Sina and Dexio have Mega items, Mega Gardevoir is mentioned in relation to Jangmo-o's ability. You believe nothing unless you see it? Then look. You need to see the Megas themselves in the game? Fair enough, but some of what I just said implies you won't believe it even if you do see it.

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>>28820845
Fixed it up for just the main games

>>28822211
They have no megas items.

No Megas are planned in game story wise or in the new anime.

Merch is always late or carried on, pokkens cosplay lucha pikachu for example.

>>28822741
>No Megas are planned in game story wise or in the new anime.
They don't have to be.
After all in XY megas weren't a central plot point and that was the generation they were introduced.

>>28822211
Megas being in post game means it exists so we can get them, but is not common knowledge in the region.

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There are 3 universes and one distinct timeline

GBC one that would most likely keep types. Magnezone being pure electric for example. No fairy type, no megas, Time Capsule exists, etc.

RBY = GBC Hoenn events ( again, type changes, etc.) > GSC = GBC Sinnoh events > GBC Unova events > GBC Second Unova events = GBC Kalos events >=? GBC Sun and Moon events

We will likely never witness these unseen events, but we can ration they happen about the same.

The Non mega universe is the one that RSE and FRLG brought about by severing the connection with, and even reinventing, events in the GBC universe. Same timeline, different universe. Types changed, events expanded upon, team changes, etc.

FRLG = RSE > HGSS = DPP > BW > BW 2 = Non Mega Universe Kalos events >=? Non Mega Alola events

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>>28822898
The Mega universe sets itself apart by being the only one with the great war of Kalos, AZ's weapons, and the subsequent mega evolution of Rayquaza and presumably many other Pokemon. Rayquaza is different in that it mega evolves after it eats meteorites that were most likely irradiated by AZ's Weapon. This universe sets itself apart by of course megas, but also the fairy type, the removal of the GTS in favor of the PSS, etc. This universe will most likely be the one we reside in until a further critical change takes place.

The events of a Mega/Primal influenced Kanto ( think Origins/Generations type of deal) = ORAS > The events of a Mega/Primal influenced Johto = The events of a Mega/Primal inspired Sinnoh > The events of a Mega/Primal influenced Unova > The second events of a Mega/Primal influenced Unova = XY >=? Sun and Moon

So in summary 3 different universe, one distinct timeline. For example, Blue Oak is a characters, every Blue Oak says "Smell Ya Later", but the Blue Oak encountered in Red Version is a different Blue Oak than the one that was said to have visited Kalos in XY. The events all happen fairly the same ( ORAS and RSE all involve Team Aqua and Magma and have basically the same story yet what transpires is all slightly different in each version) , but they are influenced by the universe they take place in. So someone can talk about Team Plasma in XY but it's not the same Plasma from the non mega Universe. We can very well witness these unseen events upon future remakes.

>>28820921
But in XY it is said that Colress went to Kalos and studied the rocks that emit the strange MEga Evolution energy, and if Colress who is a strong researcher in the science behind Pokemon strength doesn't know the full details of Mega Evolution, that could mean that it still isn't widely known by the masses.

Every save file is an alternate universe.

>>28823549
Nope.

>>28823681
It makes a lot of sense too. Gen 2/4 is set 3 years after Gen 1/3. BW2/XY are set 2 years after BW which, just throwing a good estimate, 5 years after Gen 2/4. That'd make XY/BW2 take place 10 years after Gen 1/3. Which makes sense considering an NPC says that Blue/Green is studying abroad in Kalos, Blue/Green is 11 in Gen 1, so he'd be 21 in XY and 21 is the average age most people graduate from their 4 years in college.

The Mega Bracelets also look really low tech compared to the more advanced looking Mega Rings. So it is clear the technology is there and being researched. Professor Rowan's profession was Pokemon evolution, and it is stated that Sycamore was one of Professor Rowan's students, and Sycamore's main study is in Mega Evolution, so it is clear that after ORAS, the concept of Mega Evolution has gotten popular enough where professional studies can be made for it.

However, since there are so few people doing research into it (all we know of are the Devon Corporation, Sycamore, and Colres), I think it is quite obvious that is the reason why Mega Evolution isn't known more by the masses. And even in XY, there are only so few people who actually utilize Mega Evolution, and even people who have Mega Stones and don't even know what they are for.

>>28817953
DPP takes place during HGSS, via the red gyarados sighting.

>>28823971
Theres one universe with Megas, the other not.

What gen fits in, needs to be ordered around.

>>28824061
If the games state that a character from the previous game knows about Mega Evolution, then how does that mean to you that the game is set in a separate universe?

Only time I think of separate universes is when it comes to the remakes

>>28824090
Because in one universe the great war never existed. In addition one universe that Megas never existed or ever will.


The Mega universe has Megas known, doesn't matter if there's researchers, people research the same thing for decades like Dinosaurs.

>>28824149
>Because in one universe the great war never existed.
How? That is one of the defining parts of the Kalos region and its history. If it didn't happen, the Kalos region would be vastly different than what it is now.

And even if the Great War didn't happen, Mega Evolutions still came about in Hoenn through Rayquaza and the meteor showers.

>>28824182
One universe has no megas ok? So that's the point.

There's still the other Hoenn with no Megas. You aware in fiction, universes don't have to have same events or even same flow of time or order or even people existing.

It could be quite possible Kalos doesn't even exist in the Non Megas universe.

When Omega Ruby cane out with Aplha sapphire, the same pokemon guy changed the timeline again with different order.

There's yet to be a official written canon universe.

>>28824379
>One universe has no megas ok? So that's the point.
How? You can't just take a set of games out of the timeline

>>28824405
That's the thing, two universes exist at the same time. Really there's more than two...but I'm sticking with the two universes thing from the main series games.

Besides plenty of games in series get decided to become non canon or over written.

>>28819899
Yes, hence the need for 3 time lines

FRLG And HGSS cannot exist at the same time as RBY and GSC

>>28824182
>And even if the Great War didn't happen, Mega Evolutions still came about in Hoenn through Rayquaza and the meteor showers.
Zinnia specifies that Mega Meteors first fell 3000 years ago, implying that they were somehow tied to the Ultimate Weapon.

>>28817953
they will give us Ultra Platinum and Super Pikachu Edition as the next remakes.

Oras cant fit in with black and white. They had the grunts of the previous versions.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 simply ceased to be part of the universe.

Can someone make a revised version of the timeline? I ain't reading this whole thread!

>Pokémon Snap! happens before the creation of the Pokédex, or even, in the middle of. Seeing as Oak's needs photos to complete its creation.

>>28824049
Yeah but it can't, because Cyntha appears in Johto after Gold/Lyra becomes Champion and mentions Dialga, Palkia and Giratina's "energy" when talking about Arceus. Thus the episode at Spear Pillar has to have already occured.
Also, Lucas/Dawn are watching a documentary on the Red Gyarados, not a newscast.

>>28817953
I like that OP tries to make a dating system, with the Pokedex and everything. I like that the GB games get their own "Not canon but we won't discount them" line like the old Zeldas got in the Failure timeline.

I would like to know why OP has Emerald and FRLG at different dates and why Plat and HGSS got the same treatment?

>Unova is not canon in the mega universe
>Kalos is not canon in the non mega universe

Oh shut up. All the regions exist in every universe, the plot is just slightly different.
One timeline, multiple universes

>>28826711
Two universes can't share the same timeline.

Only similar events.