Why no one use rollout in metagame? >also thread about moves

The first 2 or 3 rolls are too weak and the opponent gets tons of time to prepare for the last rolls.

>>28796235
I recently found out something thats OP
>Playing AS
>Has Ralts
>Teach her Echoed Voice
>Give her silk scarf
>Double team twice
>Spam echoed voice
>Destroys opponent

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>Ancient Power
That moment when Yanmega gets AP boost with Speed Boost

>>28796260
literally that one furfag that /vp/ won't shut up about

>>28796267
>Doesn't know the definition of furfag but has seen others use it and wants to look cool

>>28796290
>implying I'm not an ex-furry myself
I know those faggots better than anyone

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>>28796304
>ex-furry

Quash

Would a Rivalry+Attract Haxorus work?

Attract is pretty crippling.

Belch - Special, Poison Typing w/ 120 BP and 90% Accuracy but can only be used after consuming a berry

>>28796235
if metronome(item) worked with it, or it ramped faster, maybe.

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>Assault Vest
>defense curl
>rollout

>>28796443
>move can only be used once
>>28796428
>>28796436
you can switch out of attract and it doesn't even work on every pokemo
>>28796235
>wasting 3 turns to set up strong hits
not worth it, yo can switch out and kill the rollout user in that time easily
>>28796409
bad distribution

Charge Beam. It was used a bit in Gen 4 and 5 but now it's just gone.

The pledge moves too. They seem so interesting.

>>28796519
It should just work as special p-up punch

>>28796443
Seems like a pretty good rest/chesto complementary move.

>>28796519
>Waste both mons turns on one attack. >W/o combos scald and flamethrower are almost straight upgrades.

Idk about grass pledge though

>>28796443
>>28796505

what if it was 150 base power with 100% accuracy? and what if it lowered a stat on top of that?

>>28796577
Something that can run

-rest
-sleep talk
-snore
-belch

Quick send this to showderp!

>>28796235
They can switch to a Flying mon and thus make you waste a bunch of turns.

>>28796606

Maybe it would work with recycle but it's outclassed by gunkshot which basically does the same thing.

>>28796577
Chestorest hasn't been viable since like Gen 4 though. It's just way too slow.

>>28796591
Well, waste both mons turns on one attack that hit for double the power. That's not too bad if the second moving Pokemon was going to hit for less power. Wish it worked kind of like parental bond though. So you do like Venusaur 80 power grass pledge, then Charizard Y 160 power Flame Pledge.

Anyone think of any physical versions of special Mons or vice versa. Specs mienshao maybe

>>28796616
Damn, it was funny while it lasted

>>28796608
wait what

>>28796235
>why does no one use a move that locks you into low damage for 2-3 turns and then you potentially don't even get to the good last couple of turns because you've given your opponent plenty of time to counter it
I fucking wonder mate.

>>28796606
hello yes this is
already done it with both swalot and snorlax
its shit
theres nothing with belch, good enough bulk to proc the berry and not die, decent spa and poison stab

if it was physical it would be meme with sub drum salac but its not so
plus gunk shot already exists
call back when something with harvest gets it

>>28796235
try it and youll see.
>>28796256
def curl means that 2nd roll is formidable and 3-5 rolls are bad news.

>>28796739
>3 turns before you can even hit with a 120 base power rock type move with 90 base accuracy, being locked in the move, and can't even switch out
>in this time three rock slides would be 225 power compared to the 180 total power of rollout so far, stone edge would be 300 power, it wouldn't pay off until the third consecutive hit of rollout would be 420 power compared to stone edge's 400, where you gave up an entire moveslot and stuck yourself into rollout in exchange for 20 extra total power
>they switch to ferrothorn, leech seed, set up rocks, and you're likely to miss one of those 5 hits while they barely take damage and you kill yourself for them

>>28796505
>not worth it
what if you check out whatever can hit the rollouter first?

>>28796781
4 and 5 are badass. relying on rock slide won't hold against recover. rollout has better hitting rate than stone edge.
anyway, if you see something that can kil your rollout/ice ball, lure it out and kill it first.
>def curl
>60/120/240/480/960 stab
>implying anything can hold

I've always wondered why Yawn wasn't used as much.

Sure you have to wait a turn for it to kick in, but it forces that opponent to switch out, which grants you a free turn. Unlike Hypnosis with 60% accuracy, Yawn will always hit.

Feint
Same priority as extremespeed and breaks protect.

>>28796884
because sleep clause.

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>>28796505
Wrong, Anon. Belch can be used as many times as you want. A berry just needs to be consumed for it to be used.

>>28796889
It's used in Doubles some. Kinda crap in singles because of the really low power unless you're Mega Pinsir and want to fuck over the bird of priority after a Swords Dance.

>>28796884
It's not that common and the pokemon that do carry it typically either
>Have better options
Or
>Don't have the stats to abuse it.

>>28796876
Let's say you set up your Defense Curl and your first move of Rollout hits. Your opponent has two free moves to do whatever the hell they want.

Then your 2nd Rollout move misses. Would it have been more optimal to use 3 consecutive Stone Edges or DefCurl+2 Rollouts?

Stone Edge, plus it has a high crit rate. It is overall better for what you are trying to accomplish.

>>28796933
what better options does magcargo have?

>>28796935
use scopes for acc than. but serioulsy, playing rock type is all about taing the risk of missing for the reward of powerfull hits. not to mention def cur DOES give a boost to def.

>>28796952
Who even uses Magcargo?

>>28796935
You have to take the psychology into account man. Seeing the move might make the opp remember repressed memories from childhood.

>>28796889
Can see some use if you run Mega Pinsir in doubles

Sky drop could be pretty dank with toxic and protect. Don't know if any pokémon could actually use it though. Gale wings + sky drop would be nice too but I don't think it's possible.

>>28796884
Yawn + Baton Pass/U-Turn is pretty effective. Scouts so you keep momentum if they switch.

It's not a very high distributed combo. I run it on Vaporeon/Umbreon and Uxie.

>>28796235

>Altaria
>Sky Attack
>Power Herb

A fun PU set I use. Oneshots almost anything and surprises people

>>28796428
Nidoqueen does that better since it can take a hit or two.

>>28797060
In doubles/triples you can actually hit opponents while they're being Sky Dropped, with moves like Thunder or Sky Uppercut, or if you have No Guard.

>>28796884
I basically use it for that on some bulky mons for free set ups.

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>>28796304
>ex

>>28796264
Ive been running that but it never works. Even with a +1 sp atk sylveon would wall it and kill it behind sub with hyper voice ;---;

>>28796235
>Have Rock type
>Use Rollout
>Opponent switched to fighting type to resist the hit, it only has, like 80 Base Power by then.
>Fighting type outspeeds your Rokc Man, you get raped by Close Combat/HighJumpKick. You can't even switch to save your rock man because Rollout can't be stopped

That's why Rollout is bad.

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>Metronome Fury Cutter

>go to Smogon
>they worship Focus Blast as the best coverage move ever even though it is only 70% accurate
>but they call other 70% accuracy moves like Blizzard completely unusable

>>28796235
Present has amazing potential, but RNGesus hates me

>attract
>confuse ray
>toxic
>faint attack

Probably the best umbreon I had in game.

>>28800573
be honest:
how many sp fighting are out there?
what is the strongest 70% move?

>>28796264
Tinted Lens with Choice Specs is a better Yanmega set, bro. Speed Boost is really overrated.

>>28800604
does it matter when you're missing constantly?

>smoke screen + lax incase
my weezing shits on all people un prepared for evade play!
jk, i don't have a weezing.

>>28800627
live dengerouly, man!

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>>28800557
Would this work?
>>28800573
It's funny because unlike Focus blast, the other 70% acc moves have conditions that increase it to 100%

>>28800657
what site are you using
and
why not def curl?

>>28796591
Pledges can be good because it ignores speed like Round. So if you have a Chlorophyll Venusaur use Grass Pledge, Charizard will go right after for a 160 BP Fire Pledge.

>>28800680
http://www.serebii.net/games/moveset-xy.shtml
It's super useful for stratigizing, ound it just by googling moveset calculator

Also I simply forgot about defense curl's boost, only slims down the competition by a bit

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>>28800766
forgot pic

>>28796264
Ancient power needs 40% boost or more PP.

>>28800766
thanks man.

Scope Lens is an underrated item, especially for Pokemon that rely on high-crit moves like Stone Edge and X-Scissor

Rototiller in doubles used by Dugtrio.
Use with Bulky grass types.

>>28796519
I have a meme strategy in doubles, where I have a Thunderus use Role Play to gain Parental Bond from M-Kang, and then use Charge Beam as a bootleg PuP

>>28796505
You can also switch out of confusion but that still rustles plenty of jimmies.

>>28800842
I'd rather use scope lens on Pokemon with Focus energy for Guarenteed crits. Works well with Snipers and spammers of Draco Meteor and its variants. Also X-Scissor doesn't have increased crits.

imprison, to seal common used moves like knock off, sucker punch, rapid spin, stealth rock... why isn't it used more?
not to mention mimic.

>>28800564
Fun fact Galvantula has the highest attack for a Pokemon that learns Fury Cutter and Compound Eyes

>>28796235
every time i use rollout it misses the first or second hit every time.
its fucking bullshit.

>>28796409
Quash was used for a while in VGC with Murkrow, but at the end of the day there's better and bulkier support

Why does no one use acupressure

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>>28800915
I was thinking of Hone Claws Durant instead. Metronome, Hustle, and +1 attack sounds pretty neato on paper. Just a +1 in acc gives you 100% accuracy on it. I might just teach it to my Durant in-game, might be fun.

>>28801011
Drapion has been known for using that, and in doubles it could be useful on a support-mon like Shuckle or Tentacruel. Ultimately it's a good move that was given poor distribution because of how good it is.

>>28797060
I use sky drop on my skarmory I doubles because mine doesn't have brave pirb or drill peck, at least for me it works great, pulling fast mons out to waste their next move, or pulling slow mons to waste that turns move, and it does the same damage as aerial ace, and the mons too heavy for it are all resistant to that type anyways.

>>28800911
For mimic you have to waste a turn to get the move, and if the opponent uses the wrong move you're kind of fucked. Also only 5 pp on the copied move and ass distribution.

Did that no guard fissure thing ever work and end up being usable?

why rest+lumberry+harvest isn't used more? or rest + early bird? or sleep talk+ focus punch?

why sleep talk benefits from prankster but metronome isn't?

>>28801109
We don't know yet

>>28801109
We won't know until January when Bank becomes available for SM.

>>28801137
>>28801133
How come? I thought it's a gen 6 thing

>>28801109
We'll find out in January when Pokemon Bank updates and VC Pokemon can be transferred to Sun or Moon.

I know in smogon OHKO moves are banned anyway, but in game with a choice scarf it could be good.

>>28801142
Oh right, it required the VC games

>>28801123
Because the mons who have that option aren't bulky enough to effectively use it. Also SleepPunch would be unreliable. As for the bit about prankster, GF does stupid shit all the time.

>>28801017
Gavantula Can also learn Thunderwave and Swagger to allow for set up. Been using it as lead with Sticky Web to keep speed advantages.

>>28801162
Remember when Galv was briefly in OU because of Sticky Web?

>>28801062
My magnezone hates sky drop. But one tactic I try noone ever uses

>~rain team
>Magnezone + tentacruel
>Rain dance + electric terrain
>THUNDER
>also psych up to steal buffs

One shorter megawile's, a xerneas, a megabyte, etc.

Scald on Kingdra makes a lot of sense, but I see sets run a second water move in Hydro Pump. Does a lot of damage, sure, but only has 80% accuracy.

Would Octazooka be a viable choice as well? Only has 85% accuracy and 65 BP but 50% chance to lower the opponent's accuracy

>>28801184
>using Terrains
I like you

>>28800784
black def curl maybe roll out once then your dead.

>>28801191
Not really, that low power and accuracy makes Octozooka not worth it. Also surf seems God on Kingdra

>>28801191
From a purely theoretical perspective, since Rain runs on a timer you're better off trying to kill things directly with Hydro Pump rather than indirectly through Burn.

>>28796235
>still liking golem

>>28801202
Kinda wonder how well a grassy terrain + wood hammer + leech seed + etc. Torterra would do. Problem I know is the weakened earthquake, but I'm sure there is a way around it.

>>28801400
>Not using golem
>2016
Cmon man, right when it'll get accelrock in SM?

>>28801439
>weakened eq
i thought it only strengthen grass?

>>28801439
Eh I dunno, the passive heal for ALL grounded mons can be tricky. Though I have been fooling around with Grassy terrain Florges with Camoflauge, it's fun.

What about Charm? If you predict a physical attacker switching into it they're fucked. I use it on Espeon, send it against meme rock users and charm as they switch.

>>28796260
>Echoed Voice gets stronger even if it misses and caps out at 200
>Fury Cutter resets and has worse accuracy with max of 160
It isn't fair!

>>28796644
I sometimes run physical Octillery or physical Goodra. The latter hits pretty damn hard when you slap a band on it

>>28801901
i run iron fist ledian. when it works, it awasome.
>max atk
>max spe
>encore
>sd
>drain punch
>ice punch
>life orb

>>28801202
Is there even a point to misty terrain considering it doesnt buff fairy moves? I want to see the maximum speed that a fug's hp drops after a mega mawile play rough.
I kinda wanted to use rototiller for steelix to buff a grass partner considering grassy terrain hurts his quakes.
But leech seed along with ingrain and terrain could be pretty fun, especially with giga drain.

>>28801941
>max attack ledian
What like 180?
I like to think they accidently switched its special defense with its attack

>>28802026
thats what sd is for anon.
>sd
>encore
>sd
time for kill.

>>28801539
Buffs grass, but weakens earthquake and bulldoze (I think just those two)

>>28800573
Unlike other imperfect accuracy moves like blizzard, thunder, fire blast, hydro pump, iron tail, stone edge, dragon rush, cross chop ; focus blast doesn't really have alternatives that have reliable accuracy, good distribution and good enough base power. Hidden Power is too weak, and Aura Sphere has crap distribution, only ones having access to it being: Mewtwo, Mew, Lucario, Togekiss, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Mienfoo line, Clawitzer, Squirtle line (through breeding) and Raikou (through event)

>>28802000
If you really want to nerf Dragon move and also prevent status I guess you could used Misty Terrain; but I'll agree that it's the shittiest of the terrains.

>>28802114
Well Magnitude as well, but who the fuck uses Magnitude?

>>28802150
Geodude?
Magneton?

>>28802150
>Magnitude
>Using the poor man's earthquake

Granted it can have like 120-150 power at magnitude 9, but otherwise it does less than dig.

Quick Guard is surprisingly useful in doubles as it protects both pokemon, and priority moves are usually fairly easy to predict. you can easily fuck over any prankster user

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>>28802194
>Magneton

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People don't appreciate Fairy Lock enough.

Standard Klefki usually has a filler slot anyway (you run spikes/t-wave/attack and then usually toxic or magnet rise) but Fairy Lock is cool paired with setup sweepers, especially those that resist or are immune to Klefki's weaknesses.

For example, if you run Klefki+Mega Pinsir and a scarf ground type kills your Klefki (which is pretty common since scarf Excadrill is a common mon and a good Klefki switch-in) your Pinsir gets two swords dances while taking no damage.
Or you could run SD/RP lando-t and get +2/+2 while usually essentially walling whatever killed the Klefki.

Sure it's situational but it works often enough if you use the right sweepers with it, and you don't often miss the filler move anyway.

>>28797188
I use a bulky umbrein phaser with yawn. Works with stall teams, especially those who set or stack hazards. Set: Yawn, swagger, foul play, moonlight. Also if you have a Sun setter it adds to over all bulk.

>>28800657
Maybe only steelix and very situationaly.

>>28800784
Block, rollout, defense curl, spikes shield
>Them Verlis sets making chesnaught the man!

>>28796235
It gives the opponent too much time to counter it. It is godly ingame at least

>>28796450
>Assault Vest Rain Dance Goodra

>>28796264
>not going for Weakness Policy + Endure + Reversal
It's a neat set for fun plays

>>28800842
I run wide lense aero over scope lens. My attitude is that i'd rather the move hit than crit, plus it can't crit if it doesn't hit.

>>28796608
But anon, rollout is a rock move

>>28800979
Yeah like Mega Sableye, don't down play quash it's great. Murkrow is awesome, don't get me wrong, it just not competitive outside little cup.

>>28800784
I kinda want to try Block, Defence Curl, Milk Drink, Rollout on Milbank. Bulky investment of some persuasion.

>>28801141
Nope, gen 7. No pokemon with No Guard has access to an OHKO move right now, but since Machamp could learn Fissure from TM in Gen 1, and you can transfer pokemon from the RBY VC releases to SM, No Guard OHKO will finally be possible in SM

>>28802865
what about skill swap?

>>28800907
Man Kingdra was MADE for this strategy, but after breeding one and raising it ingame to fuck with my friend I can confirm that it hardly ever pays off. I must just have shit luck.

>>28803422
its not about luck. i tried using sniper+focus energy+lens, but it lacks the speed to sweep. d-dance is much better option for it.