Is he the strongest rival? He's the only one who could

>>28749879
By level or by story?

>>28749879
Well, I guess you could say that

>>28749879
How do you determine strongest?

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>>28749879

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>>28749925
>Exeggutor with 3 moves
How did he even manage o do that

>>28749925
Yes, it's incredibly fair to use his Gen 1 team, where there were only 151 Pokemon and not a good variety of moves.

Surely using his Gen 3 or Gen 4 teams would make my point invalid, so why try right?

>>28749879
I wouldn't say beating the weakest E4 is enough of an accomplishment.
In any case I would say Wally or Barry hold that title. N if you're one of the people who consider him a rival.

>>28749960
You mean the gen 3 team that was still restricted to gen 1 Pokemon?
And the gen 4 team that still follows that same rule?

>>28749964
>it's Kanto so it's shit

>>28749879
>and Lance isn't a pushover.
reaction image

"Hurry up and come."

What did he mean by this, /vp/

>>28749925
Why do people spam this? Worse than the people who spam "the problems with ORAS" image

>>28749957
He had to delete Cut but didn't have any good moves to replace it with because the move relearner didn't exist in gen 1.

>>28749925
>his team gets worse sets than before

I really think they just wanted to make your rival to be retarded, while having a much higher leveled team. Yellow gives everyone better team, but Blue still is pretty shit

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>>28749992
Yes

Only Gen 1 Pokemon

>>28749996
>Says that as if the Kanto Elite Four isn't shit

>>28749925
>Do you know what that means? I'll tell you! I am the most powerful Trainer in the world!

>>28749964
>Wally
He had a weaker team than Blue for his Victory Road fight. Sure, there's his postgame team, but that doesn't have a basis to compare Blue with since the latter doesn't have a postgame fight. Plus, Blue became was temporarily a champion and went on to become a gym leader. Wally was just another trainer.

>>28749960
>implying Rhydon didn't have better moves than Leer and fucking Tail Whip
>implying Exeggutor couldn't have 4 moves

>>28750031
IIRC there was this limitation back on gen 1 that made it so you could only add 2 custom moves to each mon

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Reminder that Barry's mons grow one level each time you beat the League maxing out at level 80.

>Lance isn't a pushover
>Jynx used Powder Snow

>>28750017
Unlike the problem with ORAS image Blue being the worst is fact and not opinion.

>>28750086
He maxes out at 85 though.

>>28750086
He's the second strongest trainer after Red right?

>>28749996
>worst geography (inb4 muh circles)
>worst gyms
>special
>only 10% of the content you can get from any recent game
>worst girls

>>28750034
aren't those rematch teams though?

>>28750117
>strongest
Depends on what you mean by that. Wally is objectively the strongest.

>>28750034
>picking his non canon postgame team
Why don't you just post the other rival's postgame teams then? Blueb is still the worst.

>>28750117
In terms of level. Yeah.

>>28750139
Levels don't mean much since we know trainers like gum leaders and champions have several teams of different levels

>>28750134
Yep.

Wally and Barry are the strongest, no question

The only reason no other rival becomes champion is because you beat all your other rivals before the E4 so they don't even attempt it

is it possible to make AI vs AI matches to test this? Like, making a bunch of simulations to figure out which trainer is the strongest

>>28750075
Blue does have a rematch in the remakes (which I presume we're counting).

>>28750122
>worst geography (inb4 muh circles)
Kanto is more interesting than Kalos and the fact that after a few gyms, you can challenge the rest of the gyms with the exception of the last one in any order you want gives it some points.

>worst gyms
No gyms in the series are interesting. They're all puzzles for 5-year olds.

>special
This is an argument against Genwun, not Kanto. Kanto is present in 4 gens.

>only 10% of the content you can get from any recent game
FRLG has more content than:
>XY
>ORAS
>RS
>DP
And, debatably, BW as well.

>worst girls
Who gives a fuck

>>28750161
I know. Wally is objectively the strongest in that case.

>>28750034
Gary's bro is an exeggutor?

How baller can one trainer be!?

>>28750184
The idea that a critisim can be dismissed because the rest of the series has it is silly since the critisim is that its the worst. Its not impossible for Kanto to have the worst gyms, even if you think they are all bad

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How about him?
I know his team is kinda PoopooPeepee, but he's like the only other rival to beat the elite 4, even if it's after you.

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>>28750141
Sure thing.

Tell me with a straight face Blue is the worst again.

>>28750303
It bothers me that Serena has to use stereotypically feminine shitmon. What is she, a Lass?

>>28750303
>Serena's Jolteon

>>28750184
>Kanto is more interesting than Kalos and the fact that after a few gyms, you can challenge the rest of the gyms with the exception of the last one in any order you want gives it some points.
That doesn't change the fact that the geography of Kanto doesn't change throughout your journey even in its remake. Basically the only biome is grassland. Being able to do the gyms in no particular order isn't a factor.

>No gyms in the series are interesting.
You do realise that puzzles aren't the only thing that makes a gym interesting right? There's also the matter of design.

>FRLG has more content than:
>>XY
>>ORAS
>>RS
>>DP
Objectively wrong. XY as a whole had a longer main game. FRLG also lacked a legitimate Battle Tower.
ORAS. You have to be kidding. Super secret bases alone gave it now content. Same as RS really and the same goes for contests.
DP has the same reasoning as ORAS/RS but to a lesser degree.

>>28750319

It's a video game.
It shouldn't be taken seriously.

>>28750303
...Half of Serena's team doesn't even have a fourth move?

>>28750319
Calem has the exact same team except with a male Meowstic, so...

>>28750303
What about Bianca?

>May/Brendan STILL have 5 Pokemon in the final battle

>>28750303
That's still pretty pathetic.
Blue is even just barely edged out by Serena because of the mega.

>>28750387
Shut up retard. It goes
>Barry
>Wally
>Blue
>Cherren
>Hugh
>Serena
>Silver
>May

>>28750415
...How is Barry higher?

>>28750350
Not him but it also has the mountainous area next to Pewter. Mountains isn't a typically mentioned biome. Not as much as say, Johto or Sinnoh though. Also the ocean area which is meaningful when Unova and Kalos has very little

Also, doesn't Sevii have a Battle Tower? Though that's still not Kanto.

>>28750425
The levels of his Pokemon increase by 10 depending on the times you defeat the E4 till he maxes out at 85 for his starter.

>>28750432
>Also the ocean area which is meaningful when Unova and Kalos has very little
Unova also has seasons which changes the visuals of the region as well as much more biome than Kanto. Funnily enough though one of the reasons people don't like Kalos is because of the jarring changes between the biomes.

Trainer Tower also isn't a battle tower.

>>28750465
Well alright, he edges out Wally in level, but does he come close to the same smart item usage? Not gonna count the Mega against him.

>>28750415
>Serena above Silver
I don't even like Silver all that much and yet I think this is retarded.

>>28750497
Well, it doesn't really matter who's first.

Blue is irrefutably third.

>>28750184
>FRLG has more content than:
>>XY
>>ORAS
>>RS
>>DP

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>28749925
>this is the RBY Champion
What would the other champs' teams be like if they were Gen 1?

>>28750519
Yeah, I wish we could get a count on BW2, they all seem to have better teams but you apparently can't fight them 6v6 Singles, and they force everyone to be at Level 50. I was considering looking for BW2 until I got that far into the postgame, it doesn't sound quite as glamorous now.

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>>28750541
>RBY
Actually only RB, in Y he's got a very different team, with changes based around what his Eevee evolved into based on whether you won or lost some of the fights.

>>28750387

>Implying her mega absol is "good"

It is the second least threatening pokemon in her entire team outside meowstic. She doesn't even have the decency of having sucker punch on it.

Even Clefable is more threatening simply because it's rarely used at such a level and most forget about the retyping and move pool.

>>28750548
Eh, the 50 level thing is so it matches closer to online battles, so I'm okay with it.

>>28750572
Specifically

If he got a Vaporeon he'll have a Ninetails and Magneton
If he got a Jolteon he'll have a Cloyster and a Ninetails
If he got a Flareon he'll have a Magneton and a Cloyster.

>>28750495
I wasn't saying Unova and Kalos had little changes, just that Kanto has a biome more than those two

Then what is it?

>>28750623
>just that Kanto has a biome more than those two
But they both have a mountainous biome?

>Then what is it?
It was like 8 floors or something, sometimes with multiple trainers on each floor with their mon matching your highest leveled one however they have set teams. You also aren't healed between battles like the tower but you have to manually heal with items like potions and revives.

Basically you beat them to reach the top and then you earn an item.

>>28750303
>Silver never evolved his Magneton and Sneasel

This triggers me more than it should. I appreciate the fact that Crobat shows his character development, but c'mon, give him a proper team, at least eovlve his signature mon.

>>28750037
The Kanto E4 is stronger than Kalos.

Inb4
>muh megas
Megas are overrated, it's just a BST boost and most of the NPCs don't even use the broken ones. A team without megas can win against a team with one.

>>28750519
>Blue is irrefutably third.
He's much lower than that

A good list would be more like
>Wally
>Hugh
>Cheren
>Barry
>May
>Blue
>Silver
>Serena

Barry would be higher he's severely losing out on the item front.
Blue on the other hand loses out in movesets.

>>28750717
That sounds awesome.

I was talking ocean. Kanto seems to have more traversable ocean than Unova/Kalos

>>28750810
>May stronger than Blue

Okay, now I just know you're trolling.

>>28750760
I don't think Silver even has a postgame fight so they forced him into 'doesn't exist until National Dex' mode. Though of course, it's really weird to try to figure out when Kanjohto becomes postgame and my memory is a bit bad on it.

>>28750810
What is the logic for your May placement?

>>28750017
>>28749960

>BLOO IS BEST RIVEL ALL OTHER RIVALS SUCK
>gets proven wrong
>Y U KEEP PROOVING ME RONG?!?!?! DELEEEEEEEEEEET THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!

kys, beeyotch.

>>28750851
Moveset.
Mega Blaziken is also a decent damage dealer.

>>28750842
You can fight Silver after Kanto, so no, they just didn't give his mons evolutions for some reason.

Also Magnezone and Weavile were in the Johto dex in HGSS regardless.

>>28750034
>charizard
not canon, dlete it

>>28750862
That was the first time I replied to you

What's the logic behind your May placement?

>>28750870
Only 1/3 times will she have a mega Blaziken.

Her movesets are nothing special, certainly nothing that would put her above Blue. Blue's FRLG team has good movesets, I don't know why you're ignoring it.

>>28749879
i could always beat him but silvers third battle was hard i always picked cyndaquil till i realized totodile was stronger via why silver was hard to beat

>>28750882
That kind of just sucks considering the huge buff they gave to Red. Hell Mt. Silver barely has anything in it and they could have thrown a last encounter with him there as a new thing.

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>>28750893

>>28750870
I don't see her moves being better than even Silver outside Icy Wind

>>28750918
>Not teaching it Thunder Punch when it evolves

>>28751040
how could it evolve if it sucks so much it loses every battle?

>>28750350
>You do realise that puzzles aren't the only thing that makes a gym interesting right? There's also the matter of design.
And you do realize that nobody should pander to your taste?

>>28750931
Another Silver encounter on My Silver would have been good, yeah. Though the mountain is supposed to be lonely. I did at least love the new outside areas. Plus a lot of level 50 Mons to train with

>>28751090
>making gyms that aren't uninteresting and t=don't take 5 minutes to blow through = pandering

>>28751090
I would wish Gyms could just stick to what they're there for and not have puzzles at all. Just go in, fight the trainers, fight the Gym Leader, get badge. Maybe that's boring... but they're already boring. You can only make it LESS tedious that way. The Elite Four doesn't pull that shit on you, though Victory Road is also in every game.

>>28751090
Uh, what?

>>28750350
>making a brand new facility is bad

>>28751170
You telling me that Falkner's gym battle in the sky or Elesa's roller coaster gym weren't awesome?

>>28751090
Retard detected

>>28751220
I don't even remember anything about those two except which games they were in.

>>28750915
>Blue's FRLG team has good movesets
That's a bit of a stretch.
Counter on Heracross isn't going to do much for it at all.
That Exeggutor set is terrible, hell, Exeggutor is terrible as a whole.
>Hydro Pump and Hyper Beam
>On Gyarados
>in any gen after one
That's just a waste of two moveslots right there. Even something like Return or even strength would have been better because it makes use of that 125 attack stat.

The only good ones are Tyranitar. Charizard and Alakazam aren't good but they aren't bad either.

Comparing that to may that makes more use out of what the Pokemon are inclined to makes her better.

>>28751220
>says that as if Falkner's gym had anything resembling a puzzle

>>28751220
I liked Hoenn gyms in Gen III, the Psychic gym in Emerald was great and Juan/Wallace's gym was cool

>>28751291
Wasn't hyper beam a physical move back then?
I know hyper beam tauros was a thing at some point.

>>28751291
You realize Hyper Beam was physical in Gen 3 right?

May has type coverage on every one of her mons but her moves aren't very strong, she has Quick Attack on 3 mons, and only has 5 mons to begin with, not 6. And don't get me started on levels.

Even if May has the upperhand in terms of movesets, it's very, very slightly. Blue's movesets are passable, so are May's. They aren't good nor bad.

So that leaves levels and Pokemon used

>Levels
Blue wins
>Number of Pokemon
Blue wins
>Pokemon used
Swellow, Wailord and Raichu are trash. On Blue's team, only Exeggutor is trash, but he can have Arcanine instead depending on your starter.

Blue has the better team. I don't know what's with your hate boner for him, but this is irrefutable.

>>28751170
Not much I can say besides that I disagree that gym puzzles are boring.

>>28751322
It didn't. It was the aesthetics. Gyms can be good by puzzle, or concept.

>>28751332
They had really good puzzles.

>>28750176
Yeah,go full action replay and capture their entire team to find out their exact stats and then build that team in showdown or something like that

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>>28749925
That's not even his real team

>>28750903
>That was the first time I replied to you

That was the first time I replied to YOU, beeyotch.

>>28750176
>/vp/ presents: Rival's AI tournament

>>28751417
I keep forgetting that there is a good chance I'm replying to someone who is 14 years old at any given moment

>>28751390
>I don't know what's with your hate boner for him, but this is irrefutable.

It's not a hate boner, we're just telling you to get his dick out of your mouth and think for a second

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>>28751404
dumbass

>>28751455
Nice ad hom, gaylord. I'm 21, which is 3x your age.

>>28751464
If I had his dick in my mouth, I would have said he was the strongest. I said he was the third strongest which is true because he has the levels, the team variety and the movesets to back it up. I can accept someone putting Hugh or Cherren above him because the level difference isn't that high, and they do utilize items while Blue doesn't.

Saying May is stronger than Blue, however, is just being retarded.

>>28751455
Pro-tip, filter beeyotch.
"People" who use it and their opinions are less than dirt.

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>>28751471
>choosing Bulbasaur

like he said, not even his real team

>>28750168
>A sick kid and a doof are stronger than numerous other rivals of prodigal potential and dozens of some of the strongest trainers in the various regions
I feel like Pokemon sends the best messages

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>>28751471
Bulbasaur

>>28751426
why not go full retard?
>take a bunch of AIs from HGSS and BW2
>make tournaments based on type of character
>gym leader tournaments
>E4 gen vs gen team battles
>rival vs rival
>champion vs champion
just imagine

>>28750303
>Heracross used by two rivals
Damn, I never knew muh boy was such hot stuff.

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>>28751536
>>28751588
>implying Bulbasaur is not best starter

>>28751534
>>28751486
You're really good at baiting looking really stupid.

>>28751642
well he is getting you to reply so its working

>>28751534
t. biatch

Also, nice ad hom

>>28751291
In gens 1-3 Exeggutor was pretty good though. That set isn't that bad, there could be something better than Light Screen but besides that nothing goes to waste unlike Venoshock Breloom or quick attack on a fast electric type.

>>28751668
I know, that's why I said he/she was good. I can't deny its working

>>28751390
>You realize Hyper Beam was physical in Gen 3 right?
My bad on that one but that still doesn't excuse Hydro Pump.

>May has type coverage on every one of her mons but her moves aren't very strong
Nor are Blue's when you get down to it especially with how they're distributed.
Plus May's more focused on speed down moves in order to give her Blaziken the edge on speed. Which is why her Raichu is packing Thunder Wave, Breloom Rock Tomb and Wailord Bulldoze. Not to mention the team covers the weaknesses pretty nicely.

As for the other two starters, I'd say Swampert is the one that benefits the least seeing as Sceptile gains an extra 25 to attack bringing it to a decent 110 attack. It also can't be paralyzed through conventional methods because of lightning rod and being a grass type as they're immune to powders.
Mega Swole is just pure bulk and a STAB EQ coming off of 150 Attack is no laughing matter.

So in other words
>Levels
Blue

>Number of Pokemon
Not important

>Pokemon used
Tie

>Movesets
>May

>Team Cohesion
>May

>>28751754
>being one Pokemon short
>not important
>May has 3 trash mons out of 5
>Blue has 5 good mons out of 6
>tie

C'mon now

>>28751807
What?

Number of Pokemon has never mattered. After all the BW/2 E4 still go as one of the more difficult ones even outside of challenge mode.

Also what do you mean "5 good mons out of 6"?
In gen 3 Charizard and Exeggutor are both shitmon and those sets are nowhere near that of May's. Also it just hit me that May's team isn't even a post game team.

>>28752130
Not him/her but I always found the Unova E4 super easy. Well, easy.

I do think number of Pokemon is now always important, as the Johto leaders with two Pokemon were still harder than the Kalos ones with three, but it does have some importance

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>>28752130
>In gen 3 Charizard and Exeggutor are both shitmon

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>>28752219
The split hit a lot of Pokemon hard especially those two.

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>>28749925
>Using a team from 20 year old game that has been remade to prove a point
I mean it's understandable for exegguctor to have a missing move since the game was rushed.
If you look at his Yellow team he has the missing move.
It's unacceptable for shitty XY to have trainers who have moves missing on their mons

>>28752304
>since the game was rushed.
>six years in the making

Alright, here's my list of the rivals from what I think would be strongest to weakest:
>Blue/ORAS Wally
>Barry
>Hugh
>Silver
>Cheren
>May/RSE Wally
>
>
>
>
>Serena/Calem

>>28752301
Good thing gen 3 was pre-split.
In gen 3 that Blue team only has BL (granted it's gen3 BL which is like half the dex, but they are decent mons nevertheless) and OU Pokemon from that gen including. In ORAS May has only one OU mon and one Uber with an awful movepool that doesn't really capitalize on its strengths making it not really Uber worthy on top of that her movepools are worse, her levels are lower and she has less pokemon therefore she's objectively weaker than Blue.

>>28752424
>Cheren that low
He beat the E4

>>28752488
Been a while since I played BW, so my memory is a bit hazy. All I went off was his team which is pretty weak, but maybe putting him above Silver would be a better placement.

>>28752488
>>28752507
Switch Cheren and Hugh. Hugh never beat the E4, so his feats are just battling alongside the player to take down Plasma

>>28751638
"GEN 1 IS SO EASY WAHHHH" Picks easiest starter that has no bad match ups until the 5th gym

>>28752388
It was rushed for shipment that's why you have missing mons and glitches, a lot of mons that are gen 2 were originally supposed to be in RB