So Midnight Form take a outrage from an Arcanine LVL 45 and doesn't

>>28707276
Possibly. Could be that day doggo is speed, night doggo is defenses or HP. Would tie in with their moves and descriptions a bit.

>>28707276
its confirmed utter trash then?
>slow mono rock
>no new sanic rock move


why even bother making the thing?

>>28707337
It's just further proof that it's a failed design that should have never been greenlit.

>>28707276
hes gonna be one of the few rock types with recovery
moonlight in his move set is obvious

>>28707304
>day doggo is speed, night doggo is defenses or HP
Fuck, please don't be this I wanna get Sundoge

>>28707337
If it has 100+ in Def and SpD it will be OU.

>>28707337
Depends if it gets recovery.

Whole lot of assumptions in here...

ITT idiots think only Pokémon with speed are good

I really don't understand the reasoning behind making it defensive at all. Even though rock is one of the worst defensive types, most of them visually make sense seeing how they're made of fucking rock. But this werewoof doesn't look hard or bulky in the slightest.

Obviously. It's described as being masochistic, his whole gimmick is that it enjoys getting hurt, why make it frail?

I can see it being OU if defense and special defense are both over 90.

>>28707368
It's more likely to get mediocre defenses and a high HP to take advantage of Counter.

>>28707443
>enjoys getting hurt

> It doesn’t mind getting hurt if it means victory in battle.

Pretty sure that implies it'll take a hit if it needs to to win.

>>28707389
This thing will get Moonlight and you know it. At least I hope.

>>28707461
>>28707368
Did you forget we're talking about a ROCK type?

Do calcs first.
0 Atk Arcanine Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 72-85 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's close to 80 base hp and 65 base def, Zoroark learns counter too.

>>28707368
>slow pure rock defensive type
>shit abilities
>will be OU

>>28707276
It can be salvaged if it gets Curse, Moonlight, and some decent defenses.

>>28707363
Well both are likely high attack if it helps. Day doggo is described as using it's high speed and rock collar to bash and cut into enemies, though. That said, we are talking stat differences instead of base stats, so who knows what each will really end up being. Day dog may be a glass cannon build, or it may be some kind of speed tank, who knows.

>>28707561
Being as fast as zoroark would be completely fine with me honestly. Sure as hell faster than the vast majority of rock types.

I swear if they pull a luxray with this thing's speed...

>>28707610
As long as it's decent offensively and can learn a couple of ground type moves I'll probably use it. It looks cool.

>>28707619
Yeah I assume day wolf will be super fast around 115 base speed but average in every other Stat, while night dog will be around 105 base speed with 120 attack.

so what hidden abilities do you think they'll get? I feel like no guard would make sense on moon doge, seeing is its all about taking a hit to get a hit in

>>28707610
As if the descriptions mean anything anymore. Popplio is described as fast, but its stats are shown to have speed as one of its dump stats.

>>28707684
Regenorator since werewolf have superhuman healing, or tough claws.

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>>28707684

Prankster
Moxie
Tough claws
Sturdy
or that >>28707702

>it's insomnia

>>28707571
How is Vital Spirit bad? You don't fall asleep

>>28707877
Nobody uses sleep inducing moves anymore.

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>>28707877
It's not that it's bad per se. It just that given most sleep users are grass types, breloom existing and lycanroc being rock type........yeah...

>>28707276
>Safe to assume it's a defense powerhouse?

I think so, especially since it's probably going to get moonlight and maybe a drain move like drain punch.

>>28708080
Check >>28707561
It's going to be another Zoroark

>>28707518
>Inb4 moves like payback, revenge, vital throw

>>28707276
0 Atk Arcanine Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 49-58 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

good one

>>28707421
That's not what I've been seeing in this thread at all...

>nonstab move off of a weak pokemon

Doesn't confirm shit

>>28707337
>>no new sanic rock move
What are egg moves

>>28707276
Non STAB Outrage is not that powerful.

>>28708748
Accelrock is day form only so unless they made 2 priority rock moves it's stuck with Stone edge/rock slide most likely.

>>28708830
>only cincinno/cincinno can learn tail slap

>Buizel and Vulpix can be bred tail slap

Sure you're likely right but I won't rule out the possibility of egg moves

I don't know if you guys understand.

Midnight Lycanroc's schtick almost entirely revolves around the use of Counter. It may not be a literal punching bag like Wobbuffet, but the point is to take one strong hit and send it back to the opponent. It's not about staying alive, it's about KOing the opponent before getting knocked out. So long as Lycanroc is just bulky enough to take a hit and not get OHKO'd, it will be able to do this job.

That being said, I'm hoping it gets Sucker Punch to finish off Pokemon who survive the counter.

>>28707363
Rock is bad defensively fuq you meen

>>28707684
I want No Guard, but we might get Reckless instead.

>>28707276
>non-STAB Outrage off 110 attack

Fucking BEASTLY

>>28707877
There's no need to sleep it to kill it.

Look at Regirock for an example of how good defensure pure rocks are.

>>28708910
The point is that counter is useless except for

1. walls who literally cannot be taken down without risking it. See gen 3 Blissey who might as well have been immune to special attacks. People ran counter just because they knew the enemy would be forced into physical attacks to threaten it.

2. walls who have a way to force the enemy to stay in, namely Wobbs and Wobbs only.

See a counter user? Status it and/or switch out to a special attacker.

This thing's typing pretty much guarantees it can't function as a wall in high tier play. If they make it defensive, it will be UU at absolute best.

>>28707368

Have you seen cresselia

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anyone else orgasming over the fact were finally getting a fast rock type that's not aerodactyl?

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>>28709152
Hmm....never check all the dogs + speed wise.

Arcanine: 95
Houndoom: 95
Mightyena: 70
Manectric: 105
Lucario: 90
Stoutland: 80
Zoroark 105
Furfrou: 102

So aside from the gen 5 dog, all of them have had at least 90 speed and I really can't see GF making night wolf slower than that.

>>28709321
Granbull?

>>28709339
....Oh that's what I forgot
Granbull: 45

Bleh

>>28707337
No STAB priority is a shame but you're retarded if you honestly believe that this thing will have no way of getting Sucker Punch.

>>28709421
daydoggo and moondoggo are the same pokemon

they would learn the same egg moves and possibly TM's

>>28708886
Are there any cases of a Pokemon being able to be bred egg moves that it can learn naturally by evolving? You'd be putting Accel Rock on Rockruff, after all.

>>28709141
Yes, it's not a rock type.

>>28707276
Predicted stats: 101/121/81/51/81/71 (total 506)

All I'm asking is like 90 in attack/def/sdef

>>28707679
Nice headcanon.

Sundog is more of a physical attacker than Moondog, who is defensive.

>>28707276
>unstabbed outrage from an uninvested arcanine
yea defensive powerhouse

>>28707421
Only rock types with speed (and Tyranitar) are good.
Golem, Gigalith, Carracosta and Regirock are shit, Aerodactyl, Terrakion and mega-Diancie are good. Archeops would be just as good with a decent ability.

It's gonna be a base 70 speed shitmon isn't it

>>28709868
>I assume

Chances it gets Moonlight?

>>28707368

Theres only two current OU rock types, and both of them are offensively based.

Unless Lycanroc gets a HA that makes it immune to it's weaknesses, it's not getting OU.

>>28707276
>2ko'd by a non-stab Outrage from a Pokémon without boosting items or attack boosts

OP, we're probably looking at 90/60/60 bulk right here. That's terrible, and even then, pure Rock is one of the worse defensive typings in the game.

>>28709789
I've probably read this wrong but Charmander getting flare blitz from Charizard?

>>28707877
Because the only sleep move used regularly is Spore

A Grass move learnt by Grass types
Which Lycanroc would get annihilated by anyway

>>28709152
We have many.

>>28709741
Not the same level up moves though. I could see this one naturally learning dark type moves despite not being a dark type.

>>28709980
Dark Void in battle spot.

>>28709890
That's why Custap berry exist. Priority explosion fampai.

>>28710028
>Darkrai used Focus Blast!

>>28710197
Darkrai isn't allowed in Battle Spot though, Dark Void always comes from Smeargle
>inb4 Smeargle used Focus Blast

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>>28710197
>relying on focus miss
not that rock accuracy is much better

>all these butthurt Sunfags made they get day version

>>28707276

I just realized

ALOLAN ARCININE FAGS BTFO
LEAKS ARE FAKE

>>28710473
>slowpoke.jpg

>>28707877
>I'll switch my rock type into Breloom, it's totally safe because Spore won't work

>>28707558

Did you forget that his appearance completely betrays the typical Rock-type?

>>28710245
>moonfag mad he gets the shit design and shit pokemon

>>28711968
Did you forget that sumo fucking TELLS you what moves are super effective and not?

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So verlis dog will probably be shit, but will the other one be that good?

Accelrock doesn't seem that great as it probably already outspeeds its targets and needs stronger STAB to KO. What would it offer over Terrakion or Aerodactyl?

I feel like Counter on Moon Wolf is GameFreak's misguided attempt to "counter" Mega Kangaskhan.

Rock-type to resist Fake Out/Double Edge, Counter to return double damage back to her.

Like I said, misguided, since Kanga gets PuP/Low Kick/EQ, but that is what the thought process seems to be to me.

People are focusing too much on counter. More than a few speedy/frail pokemon learn it.

I ran some calcs and it seems to have somwhere between 80-90 base def if all IVs are 0 and there are no EVs, I hope it gets good attack and sucker punch

>>28710473
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOqy8cC72wA

>>28712346
>nightruff will have an abysmal special attack stat to make up for it.

>>28712346
With what hp did you do calcs with because 80 base hp and 65 def is what I'm getting. It's going to be glass.

>>28712148
>Genies don't exist
Being able to kill Landorus before it EQs your ass out of battle or Thundurus before it TWaves you is godsend.

>>28712642
>godsend
Godsent*

>>28712046
That has nothing to do with the conversation.

>>28712642
>Being able to kill Landorus before it EQs your ass

Landorus is neutral to rock and bulky as fuck.

>>28710229
reminder that accelrock will have <80% accuracy because it's a physical rock move

>>28713306
If it really stays a signature move, maybe it'll be lucky and get 95% accuracy.

>>28713306
>>28713326

They're literally throwing their body at the opponent. I can't see the accuracy being less than 100

>>28713484
>high jump kick

At the end of the day theyre both furbait

>>28713532
you cant change direction in the air unless youre flying or gliding.

>Defensive

>Worse abilities
>Worse stats
>Worse design
How will moonfags ever recover?

>>28713532
Touche

>>28707276
Considering it's guaranteed Counter, this was basically already figured out.

>>28713641

>not enough info to jump to conclusion
>objective fact until hidden ability revealed
>not enough info to jump to conclusion
>opinion related to taste

How about waiting until we have the game.

>>28707363
Yeah speed based Pokemon are bad, I mean look at talonflame.

Outrage fucking sucks coming from an Arcanine

>>28713694
>footage, "signature" move and description suggests defensive playstyle
>assuming there will be a hidden ability
>defensive spread with its type means worse

So basically if it's completely the opposite of what all the evidence suggests, it might be good.

>>28713484
>tackle

>>28713777
Forgot
>defenses are lackluster based on the footage

>>28713786
Tackle has 100% accuracy you sour fuck

>>28711300
No,
>I'll switch my rock type into Smeargle, it's totally safe because Dark Void won't work

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>>28707368
Carbink is my favorite OU mon.

>>28712148
Every fast rock type is good except for Archeops.

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>>28713777
>>28713806

>footage, "signature" move and description suggests defensive playstyle
It's not suggesting it's defensive. It's showing it's taking a hit to win like the site description said.

>assuming there will be a hidden ability
Isn't flygon and Eelektross the only pokemon without hidden abilities?

>defensive spread with its type means worse
>defenses are lackluster based on the footage
Again I really doubt counter means a damn thing aside from matching the site description.


Hey I could easily be wrong since these are all assumptions on my part, and if worst come to worst, I'll accept it.

>>28713777
>footage, "signature" move and description suggests defensive playstyle
Greninja also has a defensive signature move, and Lugia has an offensive one.
>assuming there will be a hidden ability
There's no reason not to assume that.
>defensive spread with its type means worse
[citation needed]

>>28713892
>Isn't flygon and Eelektross the only pokemon without hidden abilities?
Almost every pokemon with levitate has a hidden ability, also Archen

>>28713910
If you don't know that defensive rock types are trash you don't know anything about competitive and are therefore not in a position to discuss it.

>>28713892
Which means that it has to take hits, which means it's more defensively oriented than sundog, which means it's worse.

There are lots of Pokemon without HAs.

Counter and the site description shed light on its playstyle. Like I said, it might be good if its playstyle and build are the complete opposite of everything that's been shown and said about it, which is a fucking silly thing to hope for.

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>post yfw the counter and priority moves are their z moves

>>28713998
We all know that rock sucks defensively, but there's no way to know how Lycanroc's stats look like.

>>28709741
Meowstic

>>28714025
You can extrapolate its defensive stats from the video. Based on the damage it took from Outrage they're really mediocre, no matter how you slice it.

>>28714094
Based on the damage it took from Outrage we can tell that a non-stab Outrage coming from a base 110 attack with no EVs and no items is nothing impressive.

>>28713998
>description shed light on its playstyle
>when we have Popplio

>>28714094
And...stick with me now, would within reason mean it's stats are clearly not focused on defenses and HP at least.

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>>28707276
>Safe to assume it's a defense powerhouse?

>>28714138
This. The description implied that Popplio is physically oriented, with some hints that it's fast.

Reality? Shit attack and shit speed.

>>28714138
Every Pokemon whose description says "fast in the water" is slow on land. That's why they make that distinction in the first place. Popplio follows the same pattern and only reinforces the reliability of predicting from the dex.

>>28714124
Yes, and based on the calcs from that damage we can tell that moondog's defenses are mediocre.

>>28714143
Or that its BST is just not that high. But on top of that moondog's spread is unoptimized compared to sundog, with more points being put in defense to align with its playstyle. So that makes it worse.

>>28707428
because werewolf are incredibly resilient monsters that can only be killed by silver?

>>28714292
Real bears are tough as fuck, but bear Pokemon are always made of paper.

>>28714292
>werewolves can only be killed by silver
>yet GF didn't go for the opportunity to make it fairy type so that it's the type associated with the moon and at the same time give it a 4x weakness to steel

>>28714271
>Or that its BST is just not that high.

It's next in line after Lucario(525) and Zoroark(510) with a clear media push. I doubt both dogs stats will be below 500

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best example on hand

Reminder that despite these 2 having separate move pools and hidden abilities, they share the exact same stats.

I definitely think day dog will be better than night dog, but in both cases, mono-rock is such a shitty typing. Offensively, sure, day dog will be able to pick off zard and talon, which is cool, but it just seems to me that almost every team except for hyper offense is carrying hippo, ferro or some other bulky rock resist that I just don't see day dog being able to break. Sure, there are other attacking rock types in OU, but Tyranitar and Terrakion both have awesome secondary attacking STAB moves and mega Aero has a bunch of decent coverage moves that it's picked up across the gens, most of which are boosted by Tough Claws. At least for these games, I think it'll be quite likely that day dog will have poor coverage owing to there being no move tutors and it's got no secondary STAB to fall back on.

On the flip side, night dog also has all these problems and is also likely to be rather slow just based on its design, its description and how they presented it in trailers. If it were a dark type with Swords Dance and sucker punch then we might have been in business, but alas, it isn't a dark type, and while it might have Sucker Punch that's not that great without STAB, and for a tanking style pure rock is just raw shit, it gives it so many weaknesses and not that many good resists. Also while Vital Spirit isn't a terrible ability, it's not going to be beating any of the common sleep setters in OU so it's pretty pointless.

Neither of these forms have too much future in OU, I feel. Sand rush and accelrock might give day dog some niche uses, but at the end of the day both are likely to be free switch ins for top tier OU threats like Keldeo, Landorus, Breloom etc, which will send both of them scurrying for cover. I see day dog maybe being mid-to-low UU and I'll be surprised if night dog is any better than NU. It's annoying because it's carrying on the trend of most new mons since gen 5 that aren't megas being pretty shit.

Why do people keep acting like Arcanines Outrage is good. I keep seeing this shit used as proof of bulk.

It's not STAB and Arcanine is hardly a strong Pokémon.

>>28713806
Not that anon but it did not have 100% accuracy before gen 5.

>>28714320
Actually, you got me thinking. Bewear can have Fluffy, which gives it physical resistance but also a weakness to Fire despite its Type.

Instead of making it Fairy Type, they could have made Midnight Lycanroc have some kind of handy resistance effect that also gave it a weakness to Steel (despite it already having it, of course) - maybe in its case resistance to Special moves given some of Rock's main weaknesses.

>>28714320
wtf, i hate Pokemon now

>>28714230
>base defense: 60
what a ruse

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>>28714466
I know competitive is one of the main things people like about pokemon but it's not the only thing. It's fine to like a pokemon and not worry about tiers and shit.

>>28714320
>>28714724

Why not both? In this case, that would end up giving it only a weakness to Ground and Steel, but this weakness to Steel would be 6x.

>>28714834
Not how that works, it'd be more like 8x.

>Bullet Punch!

Fucking ow.

>>28714821

Well yeah, if that's your thing then fair play. I'm just following the general train of discussion in the thread.

>technician hidden ability and bred accelerate

what then?

>>28714466
Hopefully day dog can learn elemental fangs and night dog can learn elemental punches via move relearner

Day dog can be solid UU/RU with Accelerock/Stone Miss/Fire Fang/Ice Fang

>>28716096
EQ > Fire Fang

>>28716285
>Biggest counters are Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory
>Yeah, shakeyquakey will teach them a lesson!

>>28716354
Also, its STAB rock should do decent damage to Heatran, so EQ isn't required

>>28716354
>implying you can kill Skarmory with non-STAB fire fang
>implying you can touch Ferrothorn without losing 50% of your HP
>implying you can survive Bullet Punch

>>28707276
>Make a counter pokemon
>Don't give it rough skin or new rough skin analog
GameFreak what the fuck man. This thing is destined to be an all or nothing that is nothing 95% of the time. And I get the "theme" behind Vital Spirit, but it makes it unable to fucking rest and recover to actually counter again. At least Wobbuffet has a shitload of HP to make countering work, even was given encore to make the counter/mirror coat predictions way more doable.

I have to wonder if both Night and Sun Doggo get Moonlight and Morning Sun respectively. At least maybe Lycanroc could be turned into some sort of bulky fighter if it gets an good movepool.

>>28716420
Rest is shit though, don't use it

>>28716413
Predict the switch. Base 100 non-stab fire fang does about 25-30% damage on Skarmory. Fire Fang is quad effective on the other two when predicting

>>28716439
You can't, so it's ok.

>>28713945
I think you meant that most pokemon with levitate have no hidden ability.

>>28707389
>implying it doesn't learn Moonlight

>>28714320
>fairy werewolf
Is this what you're looking for?

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>>28717190

A way to make it better

Hidden ability: lunar guard
Takes half from Dark,ghost,and psychic types

>>28717248
Delete this!