Why /vp/ want megas gone? Do you really want Mawile, Sableye,

Or just give them evolutions that makes more sense.

Because they powercreeped the living almighty shit out of the game

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>B-b-but megas make bad pokemon viable!
Not really. If GF wanted to make bad pokemon better, they could always change the abilities assigned to their two slots, change their base stats or change their move pools. They don't need an excuse such as new evos or megas to make pokemon better.

In the end, mega evolutions are not meant to give a competitive edge to bad pokemon, they are just a marketing tool to sell more copies of the games based on hype. Nothing else.

>>28556111
I think it's because of certain 4 pokemons whose megas were so strong to the point people needed to build entire teams around the idea of just defeating the damn thing.

And that's assuming you're not already using one of them.

>>28556111
>Sableye
>suck
Sableye is top tier m8, even without mega.

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The only people who want Megas removed from the game are those whose bro didn't get one.

>>28556111
I don't. Megas are pretty interesting. Besides they're here to stay.

>>28556111
>Why /vp/ want megas gone?
Because it's stupid crap that doesn't fit pokemon

>Do you really want Mawile, Sableye, Pinsir, Manectric and a fuckton of shitmons to suck again?
Do you know what they did before megaevolutions? Balanced the game with some thought put on it instead of just tackling megaevolutions on whoever felt weaker at the moment

Do you also know what else they can do? Just add regular evolutions to existing mons like they did several times before

Megaevolutions are a completely unnecessary gimmick that add nothing useful or interesting to the franchise

>>28556111
The only time I felt the powercreep was noticeable was Gen 6.

Also the designs often aren't great.

If all Megas were as well done as Mega Lopunny or Mega Beedrill in every respect then nobody would dislike them

>>28556212
Gen 5 powercreep was pretty noticeable if you ask me.

>>28556206
And you're perfectly allowed to have an opinion, even a wrong opinion!

>>28556259
and you're perfectly allowed to fuck off back to digimon and stop ruining the better franchise

>>28556202
Shouldn't it be the opposite? If your bro is shit, you'd want Megas to stay so it can possibly be good? It's not like Flygon will ever be good without Megas, it needs one to be good.

I hate Megas because while Absol and Beedrill became better, Kang, Mawile, Lucario, Blaziken, Salamence, FUCKING GENGAR became TOO good. Holy fucking shit are Megas cancer.

>>28556353
Blaziken was already too good

>>28556250
I mean, I did notice stuff like the amount of high attackers in the Gen, but it never got to the point where it made actually start thinking about it. Plus Hidden Abilities gave so many old mons viability without being overkill compared to Megastones, and I will mention the weather abilities as the exception from now

>>28556383
It's mostly weather that made me think about it. Like the whole bullshit with Swift Swim.

>>28556202
Heracross got a Mega evolution

Heracross is one of my favorite pokemon ever.

Mega Heracross can fucking DIE IN A FIRE (But skill Link on Heracross is really good so I'd rather just have that as a hidden ability)

>>28556111
On one hand I hate megas as a mechanic, on the other hand I love Mega Mawile. I wish they would just make some of the megas actual evolutions and throw most of them away.

>>28556202
I'm mixed. Mega Scizor is only a little bit better than its normal form. But I can only see the power creep getting worse and I'm worried that it'll need that tiny boost to stay relevant.

>>28556111
I love some megas like Mawile and Ampharos but it's just not worth it

>>28556299
>MUH DIGIMON MEME HURRRRRR HURRR

>>28556448
Competitively it's actually significantly better unless you need to run another Mega. That huge defense boost helps it more than people think and gives it chances to set up or just outright wall shit.

I'm actually honestly puzzled at how we dealt with average 70/100/80 defenses in previous generations

They're definitely not gone. They're just saving them for postgame since it was so easy to steamroll any trainer in the story with megas

>>28556407
Yeah. I only ever played my friends and randoms during that era so I never experienced weather wars, only heard about them. But that could be fixed by changing weather mechanics.

I have no idea how this power creep could be fixed. I don't like the idea of 700+ stats becoming common while GF refuses to fix several older Mons in real tangible ways

>>28556212
The new pokemon themselves had particularly high stats individually, but they were often min-maxed badly. A lot of them have boatloads of attack or special attack, but also not enough speed to be viable.

Alternatively, Hidden Abilities getting introduced was actually really REALLY great for balance since it was a universal mechanic and almost everything in the game got one, and a lot of pokemon got really good ones that made a lot of previously unviable pokemon viable (See: Auto-weather on Ninetales and Politoed, for example), so there was this sense that a rising tide lifts all boats.

Gen V was pretty good as far as power creep was concerned. The only real problem was that Auto-weather ended up being super strong, and so everyone had to build around that.

>>28556482
I'm not saying it's way better purely because it's not like it jumped to uber tier power like some other mons. Which is what bothers me. I like some of the power boosts, Mega Diancie is fun and Beedrill got a huge boost. But man, what the fuck is Mega Salamence? That's some bullshit.

>>28556561
>tfw ninetales is still so terrible it doesn't even have a drought set on Smogon

>>28556111
I don't really care want them removed, but they were a big letdown. When they were first revealed, even with Blaziken and Garchomp, I actually thought it might be interesting. It came across as potentially every pokemon having an alternate form that could better balance them. With Garchomp they said right off the bat it was slower, so I thought this was where they wete going.
Then it was revealed you could only have one mega evolution per match and they had to hold an item. When that happened, I lost hope of it being interesting. Limited to only one meant that your mega would become the cornerstone for your team and you couldn't opt out of using them.
So your mega would be your "team captain" and with a hold item, all megas would need a stat boost to be relevant. It would only be a matter of time after release to see which megas were good and which weren't.

Hmm, a small set of pokemon that you had to have at least one of on your team and drastically affects how you build it. I thought everyone hated that in Gen V, Game Freak.

>>28556250
The Gen V meta with the Gen VI auto-weather nerf would probably be as close to perfect as the game is going to get, unfortunately, common 700+ BST pokemon with OP abilities (Including the reintroduction of infinite auto-weather if you're using Primals) introduced way MORE problems.

>>28556586
Judging by how WELL Sally dealt with the introduction of fairies this generation, I'd say it needed some sort of break, but that's just me consistently getting long runs in the Maison with it.

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>>28556185
>give a competitive edge to bad pokemon
>marketing tool to sell more copies of the games

These are not mutually exclusive, faggot. Buffing people's favorite shitmons makes the games more appealing.

Pic very related.

>>28556637
Thinking about it, the power creep really is quite crazy. Something like Salamence is in BL. Metagross is in UU. It's so hard to imagine. The only funny part is that somehow, Staraptor is still in BL for some reason.

>>28556688
Meanwhile Tangrowth is now OU.

Shifting meta =/= power creep.

>>28556680
Take your nose out of your ass and look around you, faggot. Many people that even got megas for their favourites shitmon actually think megas are a retarded idea because GF handled them in a retarded manner, changing something that could be an alternative into something strictly necessary and buffing even more stuff that never needed any buffs instead of using megas to pump shitmons de facto

I don't know about anyone else, but I want megas gone because they've been designed poorly. Most megas are for pokemon that should just gotten evolutions and the rest are for pokemon that were already either OU or damn close to OU.
Why the fuck were megas the only option for pokemon like Audino, Mawile, Pinsir, Absol, etc? They're 1-stage pokemon with sub-optimal stats.

>>28556827
This

>>28556827
The only thing I can think of is Eviolite. But then again, they buffed Knock Off in gen 6 too so I don't know.

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>>28556111
I want sableye to suck again

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>>28556206
>stupid crap that doesn't fit pokemon
Literally the same people that are perfectly ok with "Synchro Forms" and Ultra Beasts

What are the chances Arcanine gets a mega?

>>28556926
I'm not
But guess what? They fit pokemon now, exactly because mega evolutions are a thing.

No one shitted on your doorstep before, but you allowed a dog to take a shit there once, now the entire neighborhood is using your doorstep as a toilet and you can't do shit about it

>>28556601
The Drought nerf hurt

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>>28556111
Powercreep and they could've done the exact same shit with evolutions to the ones that needed it

Megas are a sale tactic, not a healthy mechanic.

>>28556680
Buffing people's favorite shitmons could happen without adding evolutions or mega evolutions. It's only a matter of updating what actually matters when the pokemon is used: The base stats, types, moves and abilities.

For instance, Azumarill got quite the boost from the changes made to it in gen VI, without the need for mega azumarill.

Mega evos are completely unnecessary outside of marketing.

>>28556981
Doesn't help there's a bird that kills any Chlorophyll sweeper for free.

>>28556561
Exactly. That's why I felt Gen V was a great time for the creep.

>>28556625
Also this.

>>28556827
Also this. The designs have generally not been good.

>>28556926
>vp is one person

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>>28556738
>Many people that even got megas for their favourites shitmon actually think megas are a retarded idea

>Many people

>I

ftfy

You are also incredibly fucking retarded. Megas ARE alternative, they are completely optional, as opposed to something like regular evolutions. They are also not permanent nor replace the pokemon, again, unlike regular evos. They are still free to add/change moves, abilities, stats etc. Megas don't preclude any of that.

You are complaining about an objective buff because it didn't strictly adhere to your personal arbitrary criteria of what a buff should be. You are a big fucking baby.

Bonus: shitmon megas are by and large massive improvements, while 'strongmon' megas are usually DOWNGRADES. See mega chomp, ttar, lati@s, blaziken.

>>28556206
>Because it's stupid crap that doesn't fit pokemon

Just like ultra beasts

>>28557095
>while 'strongmon' megas are usually DOWNGRADES

I know you are incredibly retarded and biased but not even you actually believe in this shit

Poor Salamence and Gengar players amirite? No one will ever use their megas, totally balanced!

>>28557101
You're speaking truths, brother.

>>28557095
You misunderstood what he said. Very much so. you're both saying the same thing. Except, you're saying that the inferior version will still be useable when outshined by the mega evo, for whatever reason.

>>28557169
A handful of megas went overboard, but that doesn't negate the multitude of shitmon megas that saved them from non-use.

The point is that giving a strong Pokemon a mega doesn't automatically make it broken, in fact in most cases it makes them worse. Conversely shitmon megas like khan and mawile can be plenty broken too. Saying "ONLY THIS CATEGORY OF POKEMON SHOULD GET MEGAS, THIS ONE WOULD BROKEN" is objectively, provably wrong.

>>28557251
Yes it does, because the nature of Megas mean that the only ones that matter are the strongest ones.

>>28557169
T-tar, Slowbro, Latis, and Garchomp is most likely what he was talking about.

>>28557251
>that doesn't negate the multitude of shitmon megas that saved them from non-use.
What 3-stage mega has done that? Why is a mega the only option for 2-stage or 1-stage pokemon?

>>28556111
>Pokemon with 700 BST
Because of that. Shitmons are shitmons and should stay as shitmons, not everything needs to be equal (especially when in the case of megas, many of them are far more equal than others).
You do know that the lower tiers let people use the so-called shitmons on an even playing ground, right?

>>28557639
This. There's no reason to use Mega Audino or Mega Glalie, etc.

>>28557703
Hell, the other guy already pointed those out in his post.

>>28557754
They're fun to use? They also are functional in their respective tiers.

>>28557800
>tiers
Smogon is fine but were not talking about a meta made specifically to make every Mon viable somewhere

And I just knew that was what you were talking about

>>28557800
>They also are functional in their respective tiers

their tiers are "mega tiers"

if they're going to be shitty megas, why even be megas at all? there is no point in shitty megas, it goes against the very principle of the fucking thing

do you even read what you type or you're just farting on your keyboard

>>28557749
>tiers

See >>28557823

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>>28557717
Who said it is? It's just the option they went with. It doesn't preclude the changes proposed in the original bitchpost >>28556185

>>28557639
>the only ones that matter are the strongest ones.

Which includes shitmons. But there is also something called a niche. Plenty of megas are viable depending on how your team is constructed.

Megas did increase usage for all Pokemon who got them. Obviously not by equal amounts, but they're objective buffs. Who's to say that stat or ability changes would be more effective? That's conjecture. Their execution could be just as mixed as megas, or worse.

It slays me that people just denounce megas as a whole when their execution and result is so widely varied.

>>28557858
So you're talking about Battle Spot then? Enjoy your Mega Moms.

>>28556185
is this is a joke? They already did that with dream world abilities, and they suck anyway

I never understood the logic of giving shitmons megas at all. They need evolutions and shit to be good and plenty need way more than 100 BST increase to be worthwhile.

I get why the strong favorites get megas but not shitmon.

>>28557888
But then again, the worst megas might as well not exist if nobody cares about them. They exist at the same time as the broken shit like Mega Salamence and the slightly more balanced shit like Mega Scizor. Megas in general didn't do shit to help in balancing the game, if anything they only made it all much worse while denying us of the possibility of more cross-gen evolutions, like Gen IV had (which are a good thing and a much better way of handling useless old Pokemon, despite the apparent majority's opinion of them all looking like shit).

>>28557888
>Megas did increase usage for all Pokemon who got them
anything new increases usage you dense moron
you know what else would increase usage? new stats. new abilities. new movesets. new evolutions/babby forms - anything new. the way megas were implemented had a clear goal in mind and they completely failed at that when they decided shit like salamence deserved megas too because lol who needs variety?

>>28557950
Because most shitmon can be saved with a simple stat shuffle and hidden ability. Just look at Mawile and Kangaskhan.

>>28557907
Hidden abilities are the shit faggot

>Feraligatr
>Dragonite
>Gliscor
>Espeon

And many more

>>28557907
Imagine if the shitmons got everything mechanically that was given to them while mega evolved, but you didn't have to mega evolve them or do anything of the sort. It was just their new baseline.

They can do that, you know? If it was actually about bringing balance or boosting certain pokemon. But, they won't, because that would not be flashy and sell as many extra copies.

>>28557895
No, you are implying Megas were designed with Smogon in mind, or using the fan meta as a defense to the concept, which is simply a poor argument

>>28557888
Stuff like abilities or moves could have ended up better because the concept isn't focused on only one being allowed. It is harder to find a niche when every mega is battling for 1 spot rather than 6.

>>28556111
It'll be hard to say goodbye to mega altaria, but I think it's for the best

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>>28557846
>if they're going to be shitty megas, why even be megas at all?

Why are you acting like Gamefreak deliberately tried to make shitty megas? They were experimenting. They didn't always succeed. No one said all megas are well designed, but condemning the whole concept is overreacting.

>>28557966
>(which are a good thing and a much better way of handling useless old Pokemon, despite the apparent majority's opinion of them all looking like shit).
Then why the fuck is it a good thing? You just explained how it isn't, without explaining how it is.

Megas gave way more Pokemon competitive usability.

Cross-gen evos are non-optional and permanent. They outright replace the Pokemon that people already liked with abominations like Rhyperior. And cross-gen evos didn't balance the meta either by your logic, you just got broken ass shit like Gliscor and eviolite Chansey, while shitmons like Magmar remained shitmons.

Your logic is fundamentally flawed and it's obvious you just have a bias towards conventional evolutions and against megas, without any sort of practical reasoning to back it up.

>>28557907
>Hidden Abilities are shit

You lying faggot

>>28558049
Yeah, but there's very little chance that megas aren't being removed.

Mega Fug's here to stay

It's not an experiment

>>28558010
>got everything mechanically that was given to them while mega evolved
They would be beyond fucking broken. The only reasons megas are allowed to be that strong is because they're limited.

You are clearly not arguing from a competitive viewpoint.

>>28558033
Are you saying that megas weren't designed with competitive battling in mind? Smogon is just one community of people who play competitive Pokemon, their opinion isn't any more important than any other community in particular.

>>28558085
you're the one who apparently shift from a competitive view to a subjective one whenever you feel like it

you claim that shitty megas have their niche because they are "fun to use" but you know damn well competitively no one is going to pick shitty megas over the borked super strong ones, specially when you can only have one

make up your goddamn mind

>>28558049
Megas also give already powerful mons 100 more stat points to play with. Just look at the base stats of pretty much every fucking mega, dear fuck - Gen IV's evos didn't solve all problems but they definitely breathed life into some old things. Do you think people would care as much about Magneton and Tangela if they had never gotten an evolution?
>you just got broken ass shit like Gliscor and eviolite Chansey, while shitmons like Magmar remained shitmons.
Neither did megas, you have things like Mega Audino and Mega Gengar all the same.

>>28558085
The point being made is that mega evolution is completely unnecessary as "a way to make shitmons viable". Because such changes can be made without the mega evolution, by delving into the mechanics of the game.

Mega Evolution is a coat of paint. And somehow people are convinced that their car can't possibly go faster without the red paintjob.

>>28558110
Way to move the goalpost.

"You're not arguing from a competitive viewpoint" is just a more polite way of saying "you don't know shit about competitive." Which you don't if you think megas as standard Pokemon would be "bringing balance" (your exact words).

>>28558106
I would say a large number of them were designed off what would make the mechanic look really appealing.

>>28558110
>>28558173
I am an outsider and I am very confused right now

>>28558173
>Which you don't if you think megas as standard Pokemon would be "bringing balance" (your exact words).

you're not even arguing with the same person you dense motherfucker. you're the one moving the goalposts around and calling it basketball

no one is saying "make mega salamence the final mega salamence evolution for good", people (yes, more than one) are telling you that you could do the same changes megas were proposed to do without relying on the mega mechanic and you would have way better shot at success because you wouldnt need to make them crazy strong seeing as you wouldn't limit the selection to just one, which would also help in more variety of teams and pokemon usage instead of everyone picking the same strong megas over and over

>>28558173
Nobody said that. It was said that the mechanical changes that come with mega evolution and "make shitmons viable!!" can be brought forward without mega evolution itself. Thus, "mega evolutions bring forth shitmons so they can be useful!" is not a valid argument.

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>>28558162
>base stats are everything
Spoken like a true shitter. I'm sure Mega Garchomp's 700 BST are tearing through ranked.

Megas breathe new life into old things. You think people would care as much about Mawile and Sableye if they never got megas? Non-argument.

>neither did megas
You're supposed to be telling me why cross-gen evos are better. You're failing to do so.

>>28558164
So a buff is bad because it has an aesthetic element also. Got it.

I don't want them gone, I've just accepted it. The sooner you do the same the better famalam.

>>28558258
Yeah Garchomp Lati@s Tyranitar are all excellent examples of dogshit megas.

M-Salamance is strong as fuck, don't deny that

>>28558258
>So a buff is bad because it has an aesthetic element also.
Correct, in so far as that "You can now use your favorite pokemon!" is not an argument for it. Because, you're essentially using a different pokemon from the favorite in question. As, the only differentiating factor from that subpar pokemon and another with the same type is exactly that: It's aesthetic component.

>>28558258
See, you just proved one of my points - if MegaChomp isn't actually better than a normal Chomp, then why does it even exist? And MegaCross's 185 base attack for example is completely ridiculous, despite that alone not making it the absolute murderer that as you see I'm implying it should be.
As for Sableye, it's always been known for having no weaknesses pre-fairies or being that Prankster faggot in Gen V. Not top tier OU material, but still useful enough, and Mawile never really mattered much.
>You're supposed to be telling me why cross-gen evos are better.
They allow for more options while not going batshit insane with stats. Magnezone, for example.
>So a buff is bad because it has an aesthetic element also.
You're the one who shat on Rhyperior just because it looks ugly.

>>28558280
And yet they all have the same BST. Really makes you think.

>>28558238
So megas DON'T make shitmons useful?

Who said it's the only buff they could possibly get? And why shouldn't it be in the form of a mega? "Because it doesn't need to be" is just another way of saying "because I don't personally like it that way."

>>28558224
Again >>28557888
Who says that other kinds of changes would be more effective? So what if you can use more than one? Why would you if another Pokemon still does it better?

At least megas give shitmons an objective power up, often a dramatic one, which is what makes them worth using over others. Conversely, the mega limitation means that they don't outright replace the other mon, so I still might have a reason to use, say, Darmanitan over Megazard X.

>>28558400
Rhyperior isn't even that ugly, it just got a dumb color scheme.
I'd rather take the rhyperiors that come with the steelixes and scizors (remember those? they were added too) than having a fucking mega onix.

>>28558423
>really makes you think
Yeah really makes you think they're incompetent at balance

>>28558423
So you whole argument this entire discussion is "you can't say nothing else would possibly work because there's a chance they wouldn't, meanwhile i'm going to defend megaevolutions which we all clearly see that don't"? Good to know, saves my time.

Just so you know, defending megaevolutions because one did it right in a sea of failures is just a way of saying "keep them like they are because i like them"

>>28558423
Again, the point is that the "b-but megas make shitmons viable" argument is not valid, as this can be achived in a large number of ways without recurring to it. Whether you want more megas or not, in the end "It gives shitmons a buff" is not one of the arguments acceptable for mega evolutions.

"Because it looks the cooliest and makes my inner child happy" is an acceptable argument on the other hand.

>>28556111
I would like them to return.
But they definitely need some tweaks.
Mega Mom, Mega Lucario, Mega Mawile, and Mega Sableye all need nerfs.

>>28558471
When the fuck did I say any of that? I didn't say nothing else would work. I said you can't just assume it will work.

>we all clearly see that don't
Citation needed. Refer back to >>28558049, you're condemning the whole concept just because some of them weren't executed well. Some abilities are shit too, I guess we should just get rid of abilities.

>>28558482
>trying to dismiss an argument on face because you can't actually refute it
Do you seriously not see your hypocrisy here?

Just because there are multiple ways to do it doesn't mean this way doesn't count. It is objectively a buff. Your autism doesn't change that.

>>28557907
>Contrary Serperior, Regenerator Slowbro/Tangrowth, and Unaware Clefable/Quaqsire.
>"They suck anyway"
???

>>28558598
The argument has already been refuted, by explaining how mega evolutions boil down to an aesthetic component as all the mechanical changes can be made without it. Thus, the aesthetic component is the only component unique to mega evolution.

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>>28558684
Pokemon could also mechanically evolve without changing their appearance. I guess evolution is unnecessary and a mistake.

>>28558684
And the aesthetic component can be replicated with a permanent evolution. So mega mawille that is used as a good example could be a permanent evolution to mawille with a slight nefr stats and it would still boost mawille usage the same way while still making possible to use mawille and other strategies in your team including salamence if you felt like it

>>28558750
You're correct in that it is unnecessary outside it's aesthetic value. Thus arguing "This pokemon needs an evolution so it is stronger" is not a valid argument either. On the other hand, arguing "This pokemon would look much cooler with an evolution where ____" is a valid argument for a new evo.

Either being a mistake was never meant to be implied.

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>>28557095
>Blaziken a strongmon
>Having to run shit like protect and sword dance even with focus sash, leaving it with two moves
>one of which can get it bodied by ghost types without them even trying

>>28558884
>implying Blaziken isn't just for baton passing

>>28558817
Nobody said it "needs" something particular to be buffed. But the objective fact is that by receiving an evolution or mega, they are getting an objective buff. The aesthetic and marketing are tied to that, they are not mutually exclusive. They are all part of the same package.

All you've argued is that there are alternatives. No fucking shit. Doesn't mean that megas do not entail buffing shit Pokemon.

>>28558049
>Why are you acting like Gamefreak deliberately tried to make shitty megas?
The alternative is that they're shitty at games. Some non-legendary megas have 700 BST while other have just over 500. This isn't rocket surgery, apologist-anon.

>>28556206
And how exactly does mega evolution not fit into Pokemon?

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>>28558884
That explains a lot of things about Speed Boost Blaziken right

>>28558980
The objective fact is that arguing for megas because "It makes bad pokemon stronger" is a bad argument. You're in essence not arguing for mega evolution, but for buffs for specific pokemon. Since these buffs can be provided in other ways, you're not arguing for mega evolution at all.

>>28559002
>Some non-legendary megas have just over 500

Yeah, like Mawile, Sableye and Medicham. I'm sure they're really struggling with their shit BSTs.

Meanwhile Mega TTar is just wrecking everything with its whopping 700!

>>28559059
>a few exceptions mean the rule isn't a rule
Sure, anon. You tell em.

>>28559059
That just strengthens his point, tho.

>>28559058
The way you're still missing the point just blows my mind, so I'll break it down again.

>these buffs can be provided in other ways
1. That doesn't somehow negate megas from being buffs.
2. That doesn't mean these hypothetical "other ways" would be executed better.

>>28559059
If GameFreak had enough insight to only give megas to Pokemon that needed them, nobody would complain about them - but then they went and created shit like Mega Mom, Mega Gengar, Mega Mence and so on. I won't even mention Mega Fug in here.
>Mawile
that's not how it works you piece of shit.jpg

>>28559116
He's blaming Gamefreak for being shit at game balance when he thinks BST is what determines viability.
And apparently giving Tyranitar a sidegrade rather than an upgrade is bad game design.

>>28559114
Actually those are the only three Pokemon with a BST "just over 500." In fact Sableye and Mawile's are lower.

>>28559059
>Mega Sableye: 50/85/125/85/125/20
Please give me one valid reason why this couldn't have been an actual evolution instead.

>>28559136
>That doesn't somehow negate megas from being buffs.
Yes, it does. This means that mega evolution is not a buff, but an aesthetic component attached to the buff in question. Since the buff can be provided without the aesthetic component, arguing for the buff is not arguing for mega evolution.

>That doesn't mean these hypothetical "other ways" would be executed better.
That doesn't mean these other ways would not be executed better. Hell, you could have "boost stones" that do everything mechanically exactly like mega evolution without the aesthetic component and it would do exactly the same to "make shitmons viable" as mega evolution.

>>28559232
I'll give you three.

1. Eviolite Sableye
2. Mega Sableye is literally top tier, and that's WITHOUT being able to use items
3. BST isn't everything you fucking shitter

>>28558110
>you claim that shitty pokemon have their niche because they are "fun to use" but you know damn well competitively no one is going to pick shitty pokemon over the borked super strong ones, specially when you can only have six
>you claim that shitty items have their niche because they are "fun to use" but you know damn well competitively no one is going to pick shitty items over the borked super strong ones, specially when you can only have one

>>28559187
>He's blaming Gamefreak for being shit at game balance
And then, you proived him right by pointing out how gamefreak fucked up balance with examples and everything.

>>28559261
except that you can't only hold one item for your entire party

woops there goes your entire point

>>28559295
You know very well that he means you can only hold one item per pokemon. Don't be deliberately retarded.

>>28559339
>Don't be deliberately retarded

Take your own advice. Comparing megas to items is stupid, you can only have one item on each pokemon but you can have six items on all six pokemons unlike megas.

>I dont want megas gone, only smogon fans want them gone cause they cant use good teams and work around them shitty pokemon players will always be shitty but we VGC gods actually know how to play the game!!

make the suffering end

>>28559260
>1
That's why Porygon2 and Dusclops exist, right? Did GameFreak really consider them so broken that they don't want to let anything like that happen again?
By the way, Eviolite Sableye's defenses would be about on par with Mega Sableye's, if not a bit lower.
>2
That's because Magic Bounce is ridiculously good. Letting it keep its old abilities should work well enough, Prankster Sableye with those defenses could be a problem but nothing that can't be handled.
The same thing goes to Mawile, turning Mega Mawile into an evolution and giving it Strong Jaws or its old abilities instead of Huge Power would work while not making it broken as fuck.
>3
Those stats are perfectly arranged, though. Or are you saying that Sableye doesn't need an evolution?

>>28559295
>deliberately arguing semantics to avoid addressing the point
I'm surprised you haven't called me a niggerfaggot yet. So tell me again, why is it okay with you for shit Pokemon and items to exist but not shit megas?

>>28559390
>So tell me again, why is it okay with you for shit Pokemon and items to exist but not shit megas?

Because you're not forced to only have one pokemon holding one item you niggerfaggot

There, you happy?

>>28559240
The mega evolution mechanic is a buff you fucking retard. >>28556185 said they are a marketing tool. Buffing them via the mechanic is part of that marketing. How is this so hard for you to understand?

That is literally just mega evolution under a different name. The mechanic is what people are talking about here, which exists for marketing via buffing. If you had said "the aesthetic part of mega evolution is only for marketing and not for buffing," you'd be right. And you would still be making a completely irrelevant point.

>>28556601
Drought is banned in tiers below OU.

>>28559412
Who's forcing you to use Megas? If you're talking about competitive play, why is that even an issue? You might as well complain that running less than 6 Pokemon puts you at a disadvantage.

>>28559383
Eviolite Sableye would be way more fucking broken than those. Its bulk would be slightly higher than mega, ON TOP OF HAVING PRANKSTER. The fact you're even considering it balanced tells me you don't know shit about competitive.

I'm saying that BST doesn't exist in a vacuum, and M-Sableye's stats with its other qualities make it top tier despite the BST being low.

>>28556202
I want them to stay even though my bro didn't get them.
But I'm not really sure how a Mega Shedinja would work without it just being broken.

>>28559421
The point is that megas don't make "shitmons viable". Buffs and mechanical changes do.

The primary complaint against mega evolution is that they are ugly or otherwise aesthetically unpleasant, while the primary argument for them is that they "make bad pokemon better". This means that, technically, you could meet both arguments by removing the aesthetic component and thus removing mega evolution thematically and lore wise from the game. This is what it means that the argument for buffs is not the argument for mega evolution. But, arguments for it's aesthetic and lore value are. This is the reason why "It looks cool/I like it/It's important to the pokemon world" are actual arguments for mega evolution while "it makes pokemon stronger" are not.

>>28559488
I'm not him and this is slightly off topic, but why do people find Mega Sableye to be such a problem? I usually one-shot him with a Choiced wallbreaker.

>>28559545
Most people run teams that spend like a million years setting up. Giving time for things to become a problem.

>>28559488
So? If it ends up unbalanced enough to the point where it becomes centralizing as fuck, just give it a somewhat complex ban after testing for long enough if it's that broken or not. Isn't that what happened to plenty of megas already?
>>28559518
But the base form is only used for one turn, possibly slightly longer for Sableye because of Prankster. Literally nobody would still use them or their lines if they didn't have a mega, but if they had a permanent evolution then their evolved forms could use a bit more usage.
What fucking sort of argument is that anyway holy fuck it's obvious that nobody in their right mind would use unevolved forms without eviolite YOU FUCKING GOT ME AAAA

>>28559518
>Megas where much better at making the base form actually be used.
no they aren't you braindamage megadrone

even if people only picked mawile to eviolite, it would have the same effect of increased usage while still giving people a different strategy with an evolved mawille which could have different movesets and hold items

this doesn't happen with megas.

but trying to say every crossevo is some trade item shit is just you moving the goalposts up your ass again to defend your subjective opinion that megas are better than every other alternative because other alternatives MIGHT not have worked so we dont need to try them, just keep making more mega shit and eventually two or three will get it right. now that's a great solution to everything because you like megas, how's that not a killer argument?

>>28559610
>just give it a somewhat complex ban after testing for long enough if it's that broken or not

Gamefreak doesn't balance around smogon.

>>28559541
Mega Evolution IS a mechanical change. The mechanical change's purpose is marketing via buffing. These things are not mutually exclusive.

You cannot just claim that only the aesthetic portion counts and is the only marketing aspect of the feature. The buffs are part of it. The nature of those buffs is the mega evolution mechanic. Arbitrarily renaming it doesn't change what it is.

Here's my hot take on the situation. When megas were first announced back in August '13, I thought Pokemon jumped the shark. The idea of Pokemon totally-not-making-nods to Digimon seemed silly, but over time, megas... Seemed like an all right idea. You only had one on your team at most, and some megas actually gave some weaker Pokemon a new niche. While yes, there's some really peculiar megas (Why would you use MegaAmpharos? Or MegaAggron?), the fact that MegaMawile and Kangaskhan were met with such ire to both be sent to Ubers, Pokemon that a generation before were left to rot in the lowest tier, shows that Game Freak was trying to rebalance the meta in their own flashy way.

It also kind of harkens back to Gen 4 and how a good chunk of new Pokemon were, well, evolutions. So instead of having another generation where a good bulk of Pokemon are just evolutions of old ones... Why not have mega evolutions? This even gave an opportunity for ORAS to introduce their own evolutions, to keep the generation fresher.

On top of that, I liked that megas made it so you had one key member that you wanted to save for when the moment was right. I feel the hate against them is very, _very_ hyperbolic. There's some Pokemon that probably didn't need a mega, and some megas aren't as strong as they "should" be, but at the same time... Some Pokemon are just downright bad, like Delibird and Farfetch'd. It's frustrating that certain Pokemon, even with a new evolution, are still left in the dust, but I don't think it's the concept of mega evolution that should be to blame. I feel megas should remain in the series, and hopefully Gen 6 isn't the last time we'll see of them.

>>28559712
The point is that it doesn't need to be balanced, as communities can just use bans and restrictions to balance things themselves. Even in the worst case, it's still going to be more balanced than any fucking mega.

>>28559889
>communities can just use bans and restrictions to balance things themselves
You mean Battle Spot? VGC? That's not how it works.

>Even in the worst case, it's still going to be more balanced than any fucking mega.
What an utterly retarded statement. Even by your own logic the "communities" can just balance that.

>>28560053
>You mean Battle Spot? VGC? That's not how it works.
Exactly. I mean, Mega Mom is completely fucking broken but it's still allowed in those, while it isn't on Smogon OU. Any balance fault by GameFreak can be fixed by any willing community, although in their own circle only.

>>28560225
Has mega scizor made scyther better?

>>28560225
Weavile made sneaker Sneasel better by being a better version of Sneasel in the same evolutionary chain as it. It might not be great in the current metagame, but it's still better than Sneasel, and nobody in their right mind would use an unevolved form of a mon unless they have a gimmick to it (usually Eviolite).
How can that be hard for you to understand?

>>28560365
How does Raichu make Pikachu better?
How does Garchomp make Gible better?
How does Espeon make Eevee better?

You guys are forgetting that pokemon is a 6v6 battle game.

1. You are not using the base shitmon, you are using the mega form.
2. You can only use 1 mega, so people end up using the most broken ones
3. Shitmons gets less use because they get destroyed by a strong mega. Since you can only use 1 mega, other shitmons with megas are usually never played on the same team

>>28560365
>>28560418
People usually only use the base forms of something to immediately Mega Evolve them, you know. They don't always give a single fuck about the non-mega form, they don't even use the mega form, they just throw it on the field and slap their bracelets. That's even worse than training a Sneasel for long enough until you get access to that claw item and evolving it, or training Tangela until it learns Ancientpower.

>>28560528
You are not going to use them in your team if you plan to mega another mon. What you described is mega tactics

>>28560611
Shitmons with megas are not going to be used if there's another pokemon you want to mega in your team. Pseudos and other mons that were viable before are not shitmons. People would use something similar to Mega Audino if it was permanent and didn't take your only mega slot. Does anybody use Mawile, Beedril or Kangaskhan if they are going to mega another pokemon?

>>28560796
>Nope, but they can make teams that can cover for beedril shityness until it evolves into mega beedril.
>until it evolves into mega beedril
>mega
Yep, you can't read

>>28560895
Literally retarded

>>28560611
Why should there be any point to using an unevolved form over an evolution? The Eviolite friends are an exception to the rule. Cross-gen evos are good because they bring attention to an evolutionary line, not to a Pokemon in particular.
And how the fuck did you get banned anyway.

File: 1463372207678.gif (2MB, 400x240px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x240px

>>28556111
/vp/ is mostly underage Sinnohfetus who feel threatened by the addition of an actual new mechanic, something that hasn't happened since before they started playing the franchise. Actual oldfags who started with RBY recognize how great Mega Evolution is.

>>28561500
(You)

>>28556185
>If GF wanted to make bad pokemon better, they could always change the abilities assigned to their two slots, change their base stats or change their move pools.
That is called Mega Evolution.

>>28561500
False

Source: I turned 30 years old this month and started playing in the 90s, and I think megas are fucking stupid.

>>28561500
t. Charizardfag

>>28561500
>No TRUE Scotsman hates mega-evolutions.