What moves would you like to see being nerfed in gen VII?

>>28334551
What is being attacked in this pic?

>>28334559
It's a linoone you cuck

>>28334559
A pokemon

>>28334559
It say it right there in the pic, you dense fuck.

>>28334559
Bronzong. The name is right there.

>>28334559
scald

>>28334551
Nerf -ate moves so they don't give a 30% boost.

It would make Mega Pinsir and Mega Gardevoir more manageable.

Also nerf Knock Off so only Dark mons get the 50% boost, on top of STAB of course.

>>28334619
I think the massise increase in knock-off's power was done to highlight the megas in gen XI, since they are a counter to it.

I also hope it gets nerfed now.

>>28334559
Linoone.

Mfw people forgot this 'meme' already.

>>28334665

>gen 11
>megas confirmed

>>28334551
>gamefreak
>nerfing water anything

yeah sure

>Knock Off
>Brave Bird

>>28334559
An Ariados, gaytard

>>28334551
Does 60 damage but has 50% chance to burn

>Hot Water has more chance to burn than fire

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>>28336420
>Technician exists
>surf with a 50% chance to burn

>>28334551
all the moves with 120 PWR 100 ACC

>>28334665
What you just said is so earth-shatteringly retarded, but this is Game Freak we're talking about, so why am I even surprised

>>28336729
>wanting to make special attackers even stronger

Paralysis.
The Speed drop is enough but that juicy 25% chance to not do anything makes it a no-drawback move. Fuck paralysis so goddamn much.

>>28334619

>Nerf -ate moves so they don't give a 30% boost.

Nah, the boost is totally fine.

I agree with the Knock Off nerf though.

>>28334551
G I T G U D
I
T

G
U
D

Knock off doesn't get the power boost
Scald either gets a 10% burn chance or becomes a water type freeze dry that hits ice SE
-ate don't boost 30%
Parental bond second has no additional effects and does 25% damage
Gale wings only works on attacking moves under 60 power

Knock off and scald

>>28335227
Why would Brave Bird need to be nerfed?

Some of this stuff you guys are complaining about is silly. The -ilate Abilities are fine, they are just attached to ridiculous Mega mons(save Aurorus). I'd like to see more regular mons get them.

Of everything said, only Knock Off, and Scald's burn percentage need to looked at.

LOL at people that forgot the 120 BP Special attacks lost 10 Pwr in Gen VI.

>>28337015
BAN TALONFLAME
REMOVE TALONFLAME
KILL TALONFLAME

TALONFLAME IS SHIT
TALONFLAME IS SHIT
TALONFLAME IS SHIT
TALONFLAME IS SHIT
TALONFLAME IS SHIT

>>28336914
The voost isn't neccisary when it as already giving them STAB.

>>28336696
>Technician exists
I'll give you a moment to list all the Pokemon with Technician who can also learn Scald. It won't take long; there's only one.

Rock Slide's flinch chance removed
Play Rough to 85 power
Swagger to 50% accuracy

>>28336696
>>28337108
Make it 65 power like they did with Low Sweep.

>>28337135
The point, moron, is that only Smeargle gets both Technician and Scald. And I sincerely fucking doubt people will start running Technician Scald Smeargle. Drop it to 60.

>>28337045
>Decent moves with no drawbacks and high base powers, balanced by lack of Super-effectiveness and being resisted by 2 and completely ignored by a third type exist

>-ilates give these abilities STAB on various 'mons
>AND increases their base power
>with no downside whatsoever

>Iron fist only applies to a select few moves and increases their powers by a lower % than ilate does, on top of the fact that Punch moves are all weak as balls anyway and Close Combat etc. doesnt apply, though Focus Punch does

>>28337063
√

>>28337164
That's a square root symbol, not a check mark, you fucking underage dipshit.

>>28337154
Doing that prevents them from doing a Technician Water type in the future, fucktard.

>>28337182
??? That's fucking retarded as dick. Prevents them? Lul

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>>28337182
oh jeez oh wow you're so right holy fuck how could I be so stupid, we could totally get a Technician special attacker Water type in the future

just like all those special attacking Technicians we already have

Technician is for physical attackers, you absolute drooling mongoloid.

Scald: BP lowered to 65, or burn chance lowered to 15%, or some partial compromise between the two
Knock Off: BP lowered to 55
Toxic: Base accuracy lowered to 85; still 100% when used by a poison-type
Sneaky Stones: base damage decreased to 10% max HP; still retains all type advantage increases/decreases
Encore: no longer hits through Substitute
Tailwind: now lasts for the standard 5 turns instead of 4
Mud Slap: base power increased to 45
Twineedle: base power increased to 40
Iron Tail: base accuracy increased to 85
Steel Wing: base accuracy increased to 95


thank me later

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>>28337063

>>28337261
I'm sure Scizor would love that Technician boost.

>>28337161
That doesn't mean -ilate abilities need to be nerfed, just that Iron Fist needs to be buffed

>>28337244
TIL Mr. Mime and Roserade are physical attackers

Fuck you I can put things behind spoilers too

>>28334559
It's clearly a red sweater.

>>28337172
He's calling him a square for not liking BRAVEST BIRD

REMOVE PROTECT
E
M
O
V
E

P
R
O
T
E
C
T

>>28337077
Yes it is fag, Garde would be UU without it.

It's not broken, except on mence and that's just one mon.

It's not worth making the other -ate mons shit to nerf one mon.

>remove -aite damage bonus
>mega garde and slyveon have no reason to even make use of the ability anymore, moonblast is better.
>m pincer gimped, forced to use the ability just to get stab because it learns no flying moves

You people are fuckin dipshits

I mean i can understand maybe wanting it nerfed to 20% or somethin but removing it would be fucking retarded

>>28337261
>Scald: BP lowered to 65, or burn chance lowered to 15%, or some partial compromise between the two
If you're gonna lower the BP you might as well keep the 50% burn chance or else you just gonna make the attack useless.

>>28337614
It's only 30%

>>28337375
>Garde would be UU without it
good

>>28334600
Bronzongs aren't red, this one looks like a new pokemon

>>28337510
Hyper Voice is still a spread move that hits through substitutes. Also worth it to nerf Mega Mence.

>>28337614

Pokemon Showdown's randomizer has stopped giving pokemon Surf because "the burn chance from scald is just too good." It needs either of those changes. I'd be happy with something like 70 BP and 20% burn chance, which is why I added that compromise part

>>28337510
good, there's no reason moonblast shouldn't get a nerf either.
95bp with a 30% chance of SpATK drop?
Either it should be dropped to 90BP and get a 10% chance, get a weather gimmick like Moonlight has, or have a less than 100% accuracy.

>>28334551
Yeah, fuck Bronzong, I hope it gets nerfed

>>28334619
You mean Mega Salamence right? Also known as the only broken one

>>28337261
Agree with all of these, with the exception of Knock Off. Knock Off should go down to 45 base damage to avoid Technician abuse.

Currently:
Technician K-O: 65 base damage
Technician K-O on item: 97.5 base damage

Your version:
Technician K-O: 82.5 base damage
Technician K-O on item: 82.5 base damage

My version:
Technician K-O: 67.5 base damage
Technician K-O on item: 67.5 base damage (No Technician boost as Technician is calculated after the item boost)

>>28338309
Why aren't technician users allowed to have technician knock off? The item boost is calculated first right? Would a 82.5 bp dark move with the added effect of removing items be so bad?

>>28337974
surf power needs to be 100

>>28337361
You just ruined VGC congrats

>>28338378
Considering it has no added effect, I think it should at least be 95 bp. Hydro pump could go back up to 120 as well.

>>28338378
Surf should've stayed 95 power because it doesn't have a secondary effect like Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Flamethrower.

>>28337709
It wont happen so get fucked faggot.

>>28338399
what would vgc look like without protect?

>>28338532
Matches ending in 4 turns

lower Knock Off's power to 50, give no damage boost from knocking off an item. It's much too easy to spam it because of how it's the strongest Dark type move.

U-Turn has 5 less BP

>>28338417
Its secondary effect is hitting multiple targets

>>28334619
>>28334665
>>28335227
>>28334619
There's nothing wrong with knock-off. Just stop using items.

>>28338532
>Mega Kangaskhan used Fake Out!
>Talonflame used Tailwind!
>Mega Kangaskhan used Double Edge!
>Talonflame used Brave Bird!
>Opponent fainted!
>Opponent fainted!
>Mega Kangaskhan used Double Edge!
>Talonflame used Brave Bird!
>Opponent fainted!
>Opponent fainted!

>>28334551
Would it be better if scald was base 90 with 10% chance more akin to other moves like thunderbolt?

>>28338844
No because then in singles it's just Surf++

>>28337261

What's wrong with scald again? Is some kind of problem in OU I don't know about?

>>28334551
Focus blast gets 105 power but 85 accuracy im tired of missing with it 3 times in a row.

>>28337723
when pokemon are attacked by scald, they turn red for half a second

>>28339128
So how come Fire Blast gets more accuracy than Thunder/Focus Blast anyways?

>>28339319
Blizzard/Thunder have 100% accuracy in their respective weathers.

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I think if anything Knock Off just needs a pretty drastic BP nerf and a buff should be given to Dark moves like Night Slash. Now there's actual reason to use one over the other.

Scald is so iffy, it's bullshit that nonthreatening waters can prevent Grass-types from switching in because of a 30% chance. A Tentacruel should never beat a Ferrothorn, yet it does.
I would completely remove Scald from many Pokemon's movepools. Bulky waters don't need to be made bulkier. Offensive Water-types like Keldeo and Starmie should keep it because they're taking the gamble of low power move that might not burn versus high-power move that might miss. I know Starmie can run bulky, but I don't think Starmie really abuses Scald as much as, say, Slowbro or Alomomola.

Thunder Wave. Fuuuuuck Thunder Wave. Full paralysis has lost us all more games than we can count, I'd bet. Completely remove the full paralysis chance. In no universe should a Ferrothorn or a Chansey ever, EVER go for a Thunder Wave on a Clefable. Ever.
EVER

Throw in the towel and make Focus Blast 100% accurate. Stop fucking nerfing special attackers, Game Freak. Make Rock Slide 100% accurate as well, and just remove the flinch chance. Now it's the same exact fucking thing as using Thunderbolt or Thunder.

Remove the confusion chance from Hurricane. Why does it even have a confusion chance? Let M-Pidgeot enjoy UU, please.

Stealth Rock damage should be capped at 25%, I feel. Don't do anything dumb like make them wear away after x amount of turns, just cap the damage. Talonflame and Zard-Y are still checked. Multiscale and Sashes are still broken. 3HKOs are still turned into 2HKOs. But 4x weak Pokemon are no longer "you had better have a good offensive presence or into NU you go".

U-Turn and Volt Switch now make you select a Pokemon to switch to before the turn. Not as the turn plays out. Parting Shot, Baton Pass, and any other swap moves remain the same. I'd like to see what this does for the meta, honestly.

>>28339053
Just some fags who know about scalds massive distribution, but still won't prepare for it, switch out or dimply not use a physical attacker against scald users.
Scouting, switching and teambuilding are hard, after all.

>>28334551
Extremespeed

>>28334551
Remove Stealth Rocks, they're too centralizing.

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>>28339650
So forcing a special attacker to potentially lose 12.5% of their HP every turn they're in at zero cost to you isn't cancerous at all?

How stupid do you have to be to STILL believe Game Freak is infallible and knows how to create a well-balanced game?

>>28339520
This is the most sensible post I've seen on /vp/ this whole year.
Focus Blast would have to lose some BP to trade for 100% accuracy. Aura Sphere is 80 BP but has the benefit of -% accuracy, so maybe Focus Blast should be 90 BP, or 95 BP but with no chance to cause a SpDef drop so it's not boosted by Sheer Force.

>Knock off
Loses loses the x1.5 damage boost thing, a utility move shouldn't deal that much damage
>Scald
BP dropped to 40, a utility move shouldn't deal that much damage
>-Ate abilities
Lose the unnecessary 30% damage boost.
>Moonblast
Drop it to 90 BP and make the spatk drop happen only a 10% of the time
>Stealth Rock
PP dropped to 16, no longer factors rock weakness.
>Seismic Toss
PP dropped to 16
>Flinch chance is no longer affected by Serene Grace

>>28340076
I forgot
Hurricane gains 10 Acc but loses 20% chance of confusing.
Focus Blast gains 10 Acc but loses the spdef drop chance.

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>Mfw Knock off wrecks 6v6 players meta game

>>28340175
The more I look at Gliscor the more weirded out I am by its design

It's so skinny

>>28339796
>getting this salty about sneaky pebbles

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>>28334551
>getting triggered over scald

>>28340076
>PP dropped to 16, no longer factors rock weakness.
This PP reduction doesn't even matter, who the fuck sets Incognito Boulders 16 times a game?

>>28340537
It'd stop people from mindlessly spamming them while I spam defog.

>>28340537
PP Stall, if you've ever been to showderp you would know that it means a lot

>>28340537
As long as its PP is less than Rapid Spin I'd be satisfied.

>>28340537
It would help you vs stall since you'd be able to remove more than can be set.

>>28337261
I like the Steel Wing idea.
Encore should absolutely hit through subs.
Twineedle should get buffed to 50 BP. It's fucking Beedrill, it doesn't get Megahorn, it needs it.

Scald: 70 Base Power, and 20% burn chance.
Surf: Buffed to 100 BP. It has no added effect, and is a fucking tidal wave.
Rock Slide: 100% accuracy. Now it's still a weaker Iron Head.
Buff Fire/Ice/Fire Fang to base 70 power, and remove the miss chance.
Buff Leech Life to base 60, and give it the improved drain effect of Draining Kiss.
Buff all of the base 60 "Perfect accuracy" moves like Swift and Faint attack to base 80 , like Aura sphere. Base 60 was the standard set back when Strength was considered a viable competitive move.
This also gives Ghost a usable physical move, a Dark alternative to Knock-Off, and a decently distributed special normal-type move.
Drill Run, Sky Uppercut, Fly, and a number of other weaker moves with imperfect accuracy get 100% accuracy. They are already niche picks over shit like Earthquake and Close Combat, why punish people for picking them twice?
Buff Poison Tail to 80 BP. Seviper is shit anyways. Let it have this.
Boomburst: Reduce to 95% Accuracy. Overheat, Draco Meteor, and Leaf Storm have this accuracy ON TOP of the Special Attack reduction. This isn't too much to ask for.
Aeroblast, Spacial Rend.and Cross Chop: Buffed to 100% accuracy. They aren't breaking anything, even without the 5% chance to punch your 3DS. Cross Chop is just never used. It still probably isn't as good as Close Combat.
Wild Charge: Either buff it to 120 BP, or remove the recoil. A base 80 move with no added effect doesn't need a drawback.

Iron Fist: At least a 30% boost, if not a 50% boost. It is almost as limiting as Strong Jaw in effectiveness.
Illuminate: Negate accuracy reduction and Evasion boosting effects on the field.

Introduce a special priority move for Fire, Dragon, and Electric. Currently the only special priority is Vacuum Wave, and literally nobody gets it.

>>28337182
So what. Then there is one pokemon that has surf with a burn. Would be a neat, unique combination. But we both know that Game Freak would make it a physical attacker. So let's just not worry.

Stealth Rock: Each use places 4 "charges" that are consumed when a Pokemon switches in. Using Stealth Rock while there are still charges on the opposing side refreshes the charges.

It keeps rocks threatening, gives a reason to use Spikes instead, and reduces their centralizing qualities, since literally anyone can just switch into something 4 times.

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>>28340537

>>28340776
Stall vs stall is an abomination.
There are no winners.

Parabolic Charge: Give it to Magnezone, Electrode, Metagross, Klinklang, and any other "mechanical" Pokemon.

Introduce a Poison-Type Giga Drain. "Digestive Juice" learnable by most Grass-Poison types, as well as various consumption-based Pokemon.

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>>28340889
Honestly that live was the funniest fucking live I'd seen in a while. Just the absolute absurdity of it all. Blunder is a very entertaining dude.

I honestly recommend everyone watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=014i_7dk1YI&feature=youtu.be&t=1480

>>28334559

I think it was an ESL asking for the attack name.

>>28340889
While I agree with you there is something satisfying about stalli.g gliscor to death with aerodactyl.

Hydro Pump: Counts as a pulse. Just give it to Blastoise and Clawitzer. Really. Make them think twice before just slapping Scald on and calling it a day. It's not like it has any added effects to counter-balance that miss chance versus Fire Blast anyways.

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>>28341200
>tfw you swap in your Cofagrigus on a Gliscor
>tfw they always knock off
>mfw

>>28341281
Most of the ones I fight just pussy out and Protect that first turn, or else just switch it in so it poisons instantly. Teach me your ways, senpai!

>>28341324
Make them forget all about Cofagrigus. Or have a brother who's way too aggressive for his own good. There's always taunt+muh mentum moves as well

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>>28340978
He makes stall actually watchable.

Why is no one complaining about the real issue that is thunderwave? Almost anything gets it, your speed is dropped, and you have a chance to not do anything.

Do you causals not play the meta?

>>28341324
There's a second layer of depth to playing with Cofagrigus.
The first layer is switching it in, hoping to take an attack and nullify the enemy's ability.
The second layer is the mere threat of you having Cofagrigus in the back. It serves to put pressure on your opponent and possibly cause them to overpredict.

In the case of Gliscor vs Cofagrigus, there's nothing wrong with letting Gliscor get poisoned. A little-known mechanic of Toxic Heal is that it still increments the Toxic counter.
If at any point Poison Heal gets supressed or replaced by Mummy, the Gliscor would take poison damage at the end of the turn as if it had been Toxiced all along.

>>28341534
Once knock off gets nerfed or Cofagrigus gets reliable recovery he'll be the next Tangrowth for sure. For better or worse

>>28339053
Have you ever gone above 1100 elo? How the fuck do you not know about burn halving attack, which is the real reason why scald is so deadly and used so much.

>>28339829
There's nothing wrong with offensive pokemon losing health if they're not built to take hits anyway

>>28341534
I play a bit with either a Cofagrigus or Yamask in tandem with a Pursuit Slaking, but otherwise I'm still kinda foggy on ways to use Mummy that don't backfire on me.

>>28336914
>Nah, the boost is totally fine.

t. Mega Pinsir user

>>28334551
Nerf Rock Slide's flinch chance to 10 from 30 and make it 80bp instead of 75.

Tried to think but couldn't come up with anything else as a vgc player, attacks are pretty well balanced atm.

>>28341817
I'm just theorymonning here as I haven't used Cofagrigus in a serious team.
A Volt Switch user seems like a good addition.

With a fast Volt Switch, you can switch out on a Pokemon you have previously infected with Mummy, and bring in a pokemon of your own that can take advantage of Mummy (like Slaking).
A slow Volt Switch user can help your team pivot around a pokemon infected with mummy by letting you get a threat to it in safely WITHOUT your own pokemon getting Mummied.
Mega Manectric is probably the best fit, since its Ability is sort of a "one shot", ie. it only activates on switching in and activates before it gets hit since abilities have higher priority than any attack.

>>28341817
You can't really use Mummy if you plan on using ability-intensive Pokemon. You have to use stuff that's just as good without its ability as with, really.

>>28342118
Or a Trick Room Cofagrigus to further beef up Slaking.

>>28341517
>Almost anything gets it
Chansey Clefable Ferrothorn and Slowbro aren't "almost anything"

>>28341793
Um, yes? If your attacker loses all of its HP it can't attack any more. If your attacker suddenly starts taking extra damage then it can't do its job of attacking as much as it would otherwise. It's like you think every offensive Pokémon is a Shedinja.

If I have a Latias on my team it's because it fits the team well, maybe it can Defog undesirable hazards and it has a great bonus of countering Keldeo. But Keldeo can freely spam Scald because if my LO Latias gets burned suddenly it can't switch into Scald + Rocks + Burn damage many more times and it can't dish out as much damage as it should be. LO + Burn racks up extremely fast. It's not fair that entire Pokémon can be neutralized at zero cost to the user. Why the fuck are defensive Grass types allowed to lose to defensive Water types? Why does virtually every single Water type in the game have access to this bullshit no-drawback move?

>>28342827
I think, in general, if a move has a secondary status effect (I.e. scald, most electric moves, etc) it shouldn't be able to proc against a Pokemon that resists it.

Latios in your situation wouldn't be able to be burned by Scald, for instance. Or paralyzed by Thunderbolt. Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp could, but these secondary effects on NVR moves wouldn't.

This in general would improve type matchups, and make switching into these moves not fuck you over.

>>28342587
You underestimate how many pokemon can viably run Thunder Wave.
Try searching for "site:smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/ "thunder wave" "OU"" and you'll see just how many analyses mention Thunder Wave in either a set or under "other options".

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>>28342827
>Can spit water
>Can spit fire
>Can't spit hot water

>>28338532
Pokémon with Detect getting more usage.

>>28343131
Garchomp is a Dragon that can Dance with swords. Why can't it Dragon Dance?
Krookodile is a crook who fights dirty. Why can't it learn Sucker Punch?

A lot of shit in Pokémon doesn't make sense. I'd rather have a game that's balanced than a game that's unbalanced just so it can make sense.

>>28334551
Either nerf Protect or buff Detect. As of now there's absolutely no reason for Detect to even exist other than to be an ingame-only shitmove. Not only do the two moves function exactly the same, Protect has more PP and can be learned by every Pokemon that can learn TMs.

>>28334559

This meme has returned it seems.

>>28343985
How about since Protect has more PP, make it so that Detect instead of working the same way, starts off at 100% chance to activate first use, and a second use drops to 75%, then 50% instead of a guaranteed failure next turn. Then it's different but still useful.

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>>28342394
Why Trick Room? Slaking has 100 Base Speed.

>>28344340
Fuck I'm probably thinking Regigigas don't mind me

>>28339520
a reliable rock move YES FINALLY