>Z-Moves will always OHKO >Fucking banned I like the animations

>>28207329
You can use them once per battle. 1 (one) time.

>always OHKO

Except they don't

>>28207329
Is that confirmed?

>>28207329
>always OHKO
But Pikachu using the Normal one on Rowlet only did about half.

I did damage calcs assuming standard demonstration stats on Snorlax and Dragonite. Pancakes there has a MINIMUM of 200 BP. It's just one of the more extraordinarily powerful ones.

Do you think they'll have drawbacks besides the once-per-battle limitation? Like stat decrease or recoil.

>>28207383
Not really since in the Battle Royale footage at Gamescom Pikachu got away with using the Normal one with no drawbacks.

Again, it only did half damage to Rowlet though, so as far as Z-Moves go it's one of the weaker ones.

>>28207383
>once per battle
>leaves you with no item
Those sound like good enough drawbacks for me. Bait your opponent's Z-move into something it isn't effective against and enjoy the fun.

>Z-Moves will always OHKO
>Fucking banned

>assuming OHKO
>ACTUALLY LOSING INTEREST IN USING A MOVE BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE BANNED BY A BUNCH OF AUTISTIC PEOPLE WHO PLAY A CHILDREN'S GAME COMPETITIVELY
>playing pokemon competitively

hopefully the franchise dies with S&M so i don't have to watch it bleed from autism anymore

>>28207406

and the fact that Pikachu doesn't hit very hard in general without a light orb.

>>28207358
>assuming nintendo would use a HA dragonite in its trailer

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It doesn't Matter its going to be a game of who ever can kill they oppents z move user first and the only z move you will ever see online will be the flying type one used by this guy

>>28207434
>standard

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>>28207329
Ahh now someone see's what i see, it doesnt help the meta all that much and ya just know something like mega rayquaza wont get k.o.'d by this (unless its been officially announced that it is a k.o. move)
SM seems like a 10/10 game. But Z-Moves just seem dumb i felt like the snorlax gimmick as an incentive was kind of left field and overrated by nintendo

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>Just saw the new vid
>Alolan Raichu Z-Move

>>28207434
A-anon

This was assuming an Inner Focus Dragonite

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>opponent has Talonflame out
>switch in your Tyranitar
>Talonflame knows Bulk Up
>Tyranitar gets obliterated by Fighting Z-Move

Reminder that this will be the generation of epic lures

>>28207510
Nice bait but pokemon must know a move of the same type as the z stone

>>28207590
Indeed, thankfully, Talonflame knows the Fighting-type move Bulk Up

>>28207590
>Bulk Up

Come on anon, try reading next time..

>>28207439

Unless the flying type Z-Move has a secondary ability, people will still use the Choice Band set.

>>28207434
You mean gamefreak

>>28207510
Logic dictates that Z-moves can't be used from status moves (or else literally anything would have fire, poison and electric z-moves), but >GameFreak so you never know.

Unburden Pokemon (specially Hawlucha) could benefit from this

>>28207329
Honestly, the thing Z moves remind me most of is Geomancy. Potentially game winning effect that you can really only pull off once per battle.

I wonder, will all Z moves be just damage? Will there be buffing moves? Maybe lengthy weather setting or some kind of incredible entry hazard?

There are a lot of places they can go with this.

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>>28207783
>logic dictates
Anonmus pls

>>28207412

That sounds like a benefit for anything with Acrobatics. Free Z-move then boosted acro. Z-moves also don't take up move slots.

>>28207952
It probably won't work for Acrobatics. I don't assume the item is used up. Just useless.

>>28207952
I don't think that Z-stones are consumable. They'd still be holding an item, it just wouldn't do anything

>>28207329
>Dragonite as the opponent
What's the source for this video? I don't think I've seen this one.

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I think they look really cool!
>Bad for the meta
Who cares!

>Megas died for this shitty gimmick that'll never see the light of serious competitive games
I can't wait for all the shitposting about how Z-moves are worse than Megas once SM releases.

>>28207952
Nah, your mon will still be holding the Z move crystal, so Acro-boost

>>28208058
Fuck megas, dude. Region forms are a much better implementation of the same idea

>>28208058
>Megas died
Megas still exist. Not to mention Z-Moves are a fifth move that does monstrous damage. Sure you'll have to rework your strategies, but oh fucking well!

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>>28208058
>serious competitive games
>pokemon

>>28207952
Why would Z-Crystals be consumable? That would make the Munchlax with Snorlium more of a letdown.

>>28207922
>Hidden Power

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>>28208160
You can literally do that for anything
>Serious competitive game
>CSGO
See

Which trailer had Dragonite?

They don't always OHKO, retard.

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>>28208160
>serious competitive games
>SpongeBob SquarePants: Battle for Bikini Bottom

>>28207413
you sound upset

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>>28208315
http://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/09-01-2016/

>>28208147
Megas are universal. Region-specific pokemon are cumbersome due to them having to justify why only certain pokemon get regional forms, and also we have to see if any other regions get regional forms. Also how would you include Alolan forms outside of Alola?

>>28208289
>pokemon
>csgo
one of these games has a luck factor, the other doesnt

>>28207602
>>28207630
I don't think it works that way. Maybe you must have a damaging move of that type.

>>28207413
So quit pokemon then. No one is forcing you to keep following it, autist.

>>28207922
>or else literally anything would have fire, poison and electric z-moves
anon just because something is in parenthesis doesn't mean you should ignore it

>>28208419
A safari?

>>28208279
Hidden Power is considered a Normal move where abilities like Gale Wings are concerned, but it could go either way. HP is either going to give Hyper Sprint or something else.

>>28208289
One is designed with competition in mind, the other isn't.

Good luck figuring out which is which!

>>28208487
Looks like literally anything is going to have fire, poison, and electric Z-moves available to them. Didn't bring it up because it's obvious.

I'm guessing Z moves will ignore stuff like protect, but do you think stuff like substitute and even moves like fly can be used to avoid it?

Z-Moves are basically a buffed version of Hidden Power with a more kid-friendly approach.

>>28207329
>switch in a pokemon that is immune or resists their z-move
>they can't use it again
Wow, so op

>>28208629
Z-moves are literally my mom's limit break

Seriously, it looks like someone took my mom's limit break and put it in a pokemon game

What's your source?

Even if this is true, the new reveal is that it requires and item to use Z-Moves, so Knock Off will not only stop the moves but lose the user a turn. If something is predicted to run Knock Off, the Z-Move should be used immediately, before the item can be removed. Of course, the target could simply Protect, negating the move entirely and burning through the user's only use.

I see no imbalance here.

>>28208289
Pokemon that is so RNG based is a joke to even be called competitive. Inconsistent stuff like accuracy, crits, sleep, paralyze, confusion, etc.

Pokemon is far from competitive, it's just a game that has been forced into a competitive scene to make the VGC more relevant. The closest thing Pokemon has to a proper competitive game is the TCG, which is basically Duel Masters/kaijudo with a fanbase.

>>28208679
in during z moves having top priority and the stones can't be removed in battle if their holder can use a valid z move

>>28208426
>cs go
>not having rng

topu kek

>>28208718
>Duel Masters
Shame that they fucking butchered its English release

>Kaijudo
This was just a mistake

Pokemon TCG isn't really like either one, though

>>28208719
>in during z moves having top priority and the stones can't be removed in battle if their holder can use a valid z move

I'm not sure that sentence is written how you intended, and I'm having a hard time making sense of it on only two cups of coffee. Are you:

>Inferring Z-moves have top priority?

If so, do you have a source for this information, or simply making an assumption based on the function of Mega Stones?

>>28208762
they are very similar.
Shields = reward cards
mana = energy

it's very similar. Agree about the English release tho, feels like you're watching an Abridged Series.

>>28208722
>makes a claim
>doesn't back it up
mememan strikes again

>>28208836
I don't think you've even had any coffee. Why should I elaborate for a liar?

cant wait to use mega gengar to suicide bomb z move pokemon, like I did with megas a year ago

>>28208852
I'd compare it more to Vanguard if anything.

Kaijudo has counterplay and actual resource management.
Pokemon's lack thereof is what causes shit like Night March to overtake the meta. Turbo vomit out your setup, your opponent can't do shit, take 2 prizes, pass turn, repeat 2 more times and you win.

>>28208852
DM shields and PTCG prizes are opposite. PTCG has them as a win condition and DM has them as a loss condition.

>mana = energy
Are you serious? They're both resource systems but that's where the similarity ends

>>28208718
Explain how the TCG involves less chance than the VG, exactly? Aside from needing to draw the right cards, there's also frequent use of coins and dice. Adopting random chance into your TCG deck is a lot like adopting it into your VG team build: You make the choice of whether or not to increase risk and reward or to play it safe, and so does your opponent.

>>28208679
I'd imagine that z-stones (or whatever they're called) function like mega stones, in that they can't be knocked off

Protect ruins your day though lol

>>28208870
You shouldn't, and I never asked you to elaborate. Instead, I assumed that you were using a mobile device and suffered from an inaccurate autocorrect, and asked a question based on that. I'm sorry that my question was misinterpreted.

>>28208916
I just said, crit, paralyze, sleep, confusion, accuracy etc. are all rng that plays a BIG factor in the game. Not saying TCG is much better. I stopped playing the TCG a long time ago, enjoyed yugioh more as a TCG, since it allows to actually counter opponents moves.

I doubt it'll do more damage than a set-up pokemon. Plus you can only use it once per battle.

If anything I can see these being easily countered or generally not used because it's more useful to just buff your pokemon.

>>28209041
Huh. I found the Yu-Gi-Oh TCG to be entirely forgettable, due to the limited typing and options and enormous power ramp. Then again, I started playing it shortly after the release, so those may have been corrected. Overall, I much preferred M:tG over any other CCG, mostly because there's always a community for it, no matter where I travel.

>>28208916
>Aside from needing to draw the right cards, there's also frequent use of coins and dice.
The decks that win have as little of that as possible and Pokemon has some of the best draw/search power of any game. Ultra Balls let you discard any 2 cards to search any 1 Pokemon. Shaymin and Sycamore let you dig through up to 13 cards between the two alone, that's not including multiple shaymin, in order to get the thing you need or a thing to search the thing you need. And the most common decks don't employ any use of coin flips or die rolls.

>Adopting random chance into your TCG deck
People don't willingly do that though. At most they do it because there are no other options, like Professor Birch's Observations being some of the only draw power in the game. But as soon as Judge and N got back into standard, zero topping lists used Birch's Observations anymore.

>>28209102
mang, yugioh has grown a lot tho since then. Sadly yugioh has that "genwunner" community as well, that will mumble "muh no xyz's, pend, synchro's" until they die.

>>28208852
>what is Tec-9?

>>28209165
So what you're saying is that relying on chance is a recipe for failure? Because that's exactly what most competitive VG players believe. For example, why take a 1/3 chance of a OHKO when you can 2-shot most Pokemon reliably?

Generally, the biggest and most despised chances in VG are the ones that for your opponents to rely on luck: As >>28209041
mentioned, sleep, accuracy, confusion, etc. are the important ones about which to worry.

Ultimately, I think we're on the same page.

>>28209235
it's a pistol in csgo that allows you to run and gun for the price of 500. How is this RNG again?

>>28207413
Fuck off you entitled twat.

>>28209318
Problem is, you can completely build a deck without chance in Pokemon aside from the randomness of drawing cards(which is negated by building your deck with search/draw power)

You can't build your VGC team without crits without specifically relying on non-optimal shell armor and moves like flamethrower just come with the chance of burn.

I think that's where the idea that "TCG involves less chance than VGC" comes from.

>>28209175
pendulum's are awful, I actually like xyz and synchro's but pendulum just isn't fair

>>28208147
Literally only Kanto mons are getting new formes, fuck Alola formes

>>28207439
>Talonflame using a 1 time flying z move
>Can have Hidden Power Fighting
>All you need for a Z move is a move of it's type
>The official site confirms the z move will be either physical or special depending on which is higher

Come on mate

>>28209175
Those mechanics are poorly implemented, though, and Synchro is the only one that had direction from Takahashi. The best setup would be

>Ritual (but not bad)
>Fusion
>Synchro

>>28209389
That's just GF being awful with their pandering, it doesn't make the concept itself bad. I hate it too but give it time and you'll eventually see Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh mons, hopefully

>>28209402
>ritual
>bad
the last two times rituals got support, they broke the game and are still on several banlists.

Rituals are really easy to break if you make them useful because you can just build a deck of powerful monsters entirely instead of regular monsters being tributed for powerful ritual monsters.

XYZ was great because it was splashable and let things like Harpies get a coherent theme/idea behind what they're doing. It's doing loads to help Dark Magician get back to being meta too while the support trickles in.

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>>28207329
>Z-Moves will always OHKO
>Snorlax uses a Z-Move meant specifically for it
>Unknown factors for base damage of attacks makes it impossible to tell how hard it would actually hit
>Gumshoos basically being regional rodent means it probably has shit for dick defense with no Normal resistances
Can you just stop for a second and realize that a lot of 'mons that have been attacked by these Z-Moves have either had shit defense or had a weakness to said attacks?

I'm not buying the "OHKO" meme on this.

>>28209377
Pendulum is meh, but it's easy to counter, and Pendulum's aren't really the top tier compared to previous formats that had stuff like Dragon Rulers and Spellbooks, which didn't have any Pendulums.

>>28209402
Ritual got a big boost tho with Nekroz, it dominated the Meta and is still really good had got hit like every banlist this year. XYZ's aren't that bad either, it speeds up the game in a good way, and makes weaker cards more viable.

>>28208665
>Use Protect
>Z Move fails

OP indeed

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>>28209488
>Z-Moves will probably break through Protect/Detect/Kings Shield so this doesn't happen

>>28209480
Yugioh is a dying game :( Makes me sad, the regionals never have many people any more..at least in New York and PA they dont

>>28208908
>He's never played Vanguard

>>28209464
>>28209480
Nekroz were overcompensation

Xyz wouldn't be that bad if summoning conditions were more niche to discourage vomit monsters -> overlay every time

>>28209562
Didn't Shura and some other nekroz get ban hammered though? It's been a good two months for me

>>28209465
the japanese trailer showed it ohkoing a dragonite, see >>28207358

>>28209580
I meant that Nekroz being so strong right off the bat was overcompensation for Ritual being such a bad mechanic

>>28209529
they have a pretty good audience still. Some things that Konami is doing wrong, which kills yugioh is:
>new gimmick each series
this eventually turns out good like xyz's and synchros, but it drives a lot of people away and makes decks worth 100's of dollars almost useless.
>not going digital
Pokemon has a great online game for their TCG, where yugioh players have used third party sites, like DN, devpro, etc. which is currently getting purged because Konami wants less competition for their upcoming game. Which never comes out. People just want to casually play without going to their locals or buying shitton of cards.
>generally toxic community
a lot of cheaters, people who steal, flammers, unsporting stuff(Hobban), etc. that makes people quit.

lots of other stuff. Thing is people loved old Yugioh, with Yugi and the gang, which is why literally every yugioh movie has Yugi and Atem in it.

I'm not ever gonna use a Z-move unless the game makes me. Didn't use a Mega in X except against Korrina's Mega Luke.

>>28209562
Not even Nekroz, Gishki were problematic as fuck.

>>28209531
>5 rear units, 1 main unit that's your most important attacker, 6 damage which locks you out of using your cards, no skills to cut into opponents doing anything during their turn
Nigga I went regionals in georgia not even a few days ago and watched Machining beat gears. The comparison isn't that wild.

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Awesome lines where the middle evo sucks

I'll start

>>28209102
>>28209175
>>28209634
I used to love yugioh and love playing it but yeah Yugi, Atem, and the Egyptian undercurrent was the main thing I liked about it

>>28210234
yeah, I actually wish they continued the main series, but unlike the Pokemon anime, Yugi actually age. Kinda hope they go back to the original

>>28210282
They do exactly that in the manga and have a movie with specifically that as a plotline

>>28210282
Yeah
I mean the way things ended I'm not sure where they could go story wise
Atem went to the afterlife that shuts the book on him
And I'm not sure where Yugi and co. can go....were they still in high school at the end? I don't remember
I guess some new evil threat works well enough, maybe a time skip and Yugi is rusty or something
But with the millennium items gone etc I'm not sure how Takahashi could include the Egyptian stuff
Someone stealing the items feels old, and bringing Atem back seems kind of lame also
Maybe the items are destroyed so Atem returns to guide Yugi in recreating them
Idk

>>28210345
well that's kinda what they made the newest movie for.
(SPOILERS)

Basically it's set some time in the future, after the event of Atem leaving Yugi. Yugi is more grown up, looks a lot like Atem now. Kaiba wants revenge, but wants to battle Atem, and doesn't believe Yugi when he says he went to the afterlife. Kaiba even finds all the puzzle pieces again and combines them, nothing happens. But it is hinted at that Atem helps Yugi during the movie.
Ending is Kaiba going to another dimension, leaving Mokuba with KaibaCorp, and he travel to Atem's world for one last battle.

Pretty sure they made this just to make fans completely satisfied. Especially with all the stuff that has been hinted at from previous movies, and series.

if it's blocked by protect it's not worth banning.

>>28210320
What movie and what manga??

>>28207431
and it not stab.

>>28210527
That sounds hype as fuck

Hmm
If is

>>28210740
does actually seem awesome. It's out in Japan, but wont come out in the US until next year. Cant find a proper site to stream it from either.

>>28210780
Yeah I can't find one either
I'd watch a torrent if I could but I guess it's on lock down.

For dimension hopping is possible then Atem could come back
Maybe more of the Egyptian characters could come also
Not sure what the threat would be though

>>28207358

So far we can speculate that Z moves don't have a fixed based power. Remenber what they show in gamescom with pikachu and the normal Z move, you need to use a stardard attack ( not status move) as the base for the Z move and then it uses the power of the original attack plus a percentage bonus to calculate it's own damage, and that bonus maybe stacks with the STAB, so I would not be surprised if a Z attack that has the same type as the user can reach double the amount of it's own base power.

The move that Snorlax use as a base for his Z move probably was return or giga impact.

>>28211025
Did they say that during the Battle Royale? I don't remember that, and a friend of mine who knows German helped translate for me.

>>28208419
>>>28208147
>Also how would you include Alolan forms outside of Alola?
Safari, visit to said region, Alolan Incense (for breeding), not at all in next gen because smogon and /vp dubbed them a mistake.
Pick one.

>>28211052

I'm speculating and I made some calcs using the base power of slam, the move that pikachu select before using the Z move, and older starter stats, take it just as a possibility.

>>28211133
>safari
they regress once they're out of their specific region. I can see that happening

>visit to said region
maybe

>incense
sound stupid. those breeding mechanics are wack

>>28209319
>how is this pistol that it's precision is RNG based,rng at all?

>>28208426
>CSGO
>not rng
I get your point, but that's a really shitty example.

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>>28210103

>>28211025
>you need to use a stardard attack ( not status move)
Citation needed

>>28211133
>pancake incense
fixed that for you