>ice is now super effective against water How does the

>>28163363

Water-types become better at dealing with each other.

Oh, and I guess the three viable Ice-types also benefit.

>>28163363
>ice is still weak to 100% of all OU's movepool
Slowbro can finally kill Slowbro, that's all it changes

The only thing that will put more ice mons in the competitive mix is a defensive buff. Otherwise ice attacks will just get more popular than they already are and nothing else changes.

>>28163363

How about

>ice is now both super effective and resistant against water

>>28163488
make it be resistant to ground too while we're at it.

Grass becomes even more redundant as an offensive type.

>>28163443
Exactly. Ice needs to resist more types, like Dragon, Flying, Water, and maybe Fairy.

And we also need Poison to beat Water and Bug to beat Fairy.

freeze dry is kill

>>28163504

Nah, that doesn't make much sense, how about

>Ice now resists Dragon, Water and Normal
>Is now super effective against water

The sad part is, it would make sense to make it resist bug and grass too, but that would be nerfing those types even more which is just not okay.

Ah que bien chingan.

>>28163600
why would ice resist normal? Plus resisting ground makes sense considering ice is super effective against it.

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>>28163363
Ice could have a higher freeze chance on water and lower on fire.

Ice is already a strong offensive type, what it desperately needs is to be worthwhile defensively because offensive ice types can already do decent work while the five million defensive ice types are absolute trash

ice should resist water, flying and dragon.

That would make it a viable type.

>>28163620

If rock resists normal, ice should too. Have you ever tried tackling a glacier? Shit's hard. Ice is less dense than rock but it can still get pretty damn solid.

As for ground, if vibration and earthquakes crack stone and metal, no reason why it shouldn't crack ice too. Just because it's super effective doesn't mean it should be resistant too.

>>28163620
>why would ice resist normal?

Same reason why Rock and Steel do. They're all weak to fighting, makes sense that they'd all resist normal.

>>28163395
>>28163423

Sad but true.

Until Water, one of the best types in the game, loses its near-universal access to ice moves, buffing ice's offense will only benefit them, not ice-types.

Ice needs to be better defensively in order to be a desirable type and even then it's still competing with water, which have an established niche in the meta as bulky pivots and tanks that can deal with a variety of threats.

>Ice has 1 resistance
>to itself

why?

>>28163687
>>28163423
>>28163395

Is Ice Beam distribution as big a "fuck you" to ice types as Toxic's distribution is to poison types?

>>28163363
Ice moves get better, Pokemon stay around the same

>>28163363
It wouldn't. Weavile would be better I guess but there's like no viable Ice types to begin with. Wouldn't change much.

If Ice could resist Dragon, would the Gen V meta have been less outrageous™?

I mean fairy type was a direct nerf to dragon types, but god damn, it feels like such a wasted opportunity that Ice couldn't get a chance to shine and rise as the one true dragon slayer type

>>28163715
>electricity has one resistance
>to itself
>only has one weakness, to compensate

>Ice has one resistance
>to itself
>and then 4 weaknesses lol
>literally the most common type in the game resists it

I just want ice to be cool...

>>28163717
Yes.

>>28163717
>murdering Landorus and Dragonite with my Ice Beam Tauros

yes. Yes it is.

>>28163833
electric has three resistances.

>>28163363
Wouldn't that give water types perfect coverage?

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Remove Ice's Fighting weakness and give it resistances to Ground and Flying.

>Steel resists Ice
tell that to the titanic

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>>28163859

>Ice Beam Tauros

What?

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>>28163903

remind me, why is ice weak to steel again?

>>28163924

Same reason rock is weak to steel, I guess

You can use steel tools to break through it. Take a pickaxe to a glacier or a boulder and you'll get through anyway

>>28163924
Some bullshit about steel being harder. Except steel becomes brittle in the cold. GF just has some autistic hatred for ice

>>28163924
Hit ice with a hammer. What breaks first?

>>28163622

Now you're thinking

>>28163964

Depends on the ice desu senpai.

I think what hurts Ice a lot is that double weaknesses to the type are really common, so in most cases (except Dragonite) you can kill things without STAB.

>>28163909

Surfing Tauros brah

>>28163964
most steel type moves have to do with reflection and light though

>>28163964
ram a glacier with a boat, What breaks first?

>Ice now resist Normal, Dragon and Water
>Bug now resists Dark and Psychic
>Grass now hits Steel and Dragon for neutral and isn't weak to Flying anymore

Did anything change?

>>28163909
Despite having a terrible base 40 SpA, with sheer force and a life orb, ice beam tauros can actually OHKO shit. For real. I didn't believe it either until I made some calcs.

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 416-494 (99.7 - 118.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 364-432 (112.6 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (((unless Multiscale)))

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 489-577 (153.2 - 180.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>28163909
max SpAtk EVs, Sheer Force, Life Orb, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Fire Blast/Flamethrower, delicious 350 Speed

They never see it coming until its too late.

with Stealth Rock support it can OHKO like a third of OU, its amazing

>>28164069
don't forget that it's Thunderbolt OHKOs Gyarados, and Fire Blast OHKOs Ferrothorn.

and for your 4th move you can pack Earthquake to fuck Heatran or Rock Slide to fuck Bravest Bird

Tauros with 4 Def EVs is guarenteed to live through Brave Bird, if only barely.

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>>28164015
>>28164069
>>28164084

This might be the greatest thing I've read in a while, my inner karenfag is pleased

Still bullshit how widespread Ice Beam is, but great nonetheless.

So does that mean that Nidoking could also make use of the same strategy to get value out of that sweet, sweet special movepool it has?

>>28164112
Wow. I know it's gimmicky to some extent, but if it can really be this destructive, how come Tauros is NU? Shouldn't anything able to OHKO this many things (and by surprise) be UU at least?

>>28164155
I've tried, and Nidoking suffers a lot when trying because its much slower than Tauros. Tauros outspeeds a goofy range of shit, since it caps at 350, but Nidoking doesnt even break 300 iirc.

That said, Nidoking DOES fuck several pokemon that Tauros doesnt, like Mega Gardevoir.

Nidoking is much less likely to surprise a foe by being Special-based, though.

>>28164207
Its fun as hell, but can be unreliable since its easy to wall with anything its not tailored to OHKO, and Tauros itself is fragile as shit
beware Conkeldurr.

>>28163363

Ice should resist Flying, Water and be immune to Normal because normal things can't touch ice without karate training.

>>28164155
Yes on the Nidos, actually.

Most Nidokings/Nidoqueens you'll see in competitive run on their SpA instead of Atk, despite seeming counter-intuitive at first, since thanks to sheer force and life orb, sludge bomb/earth power/thunderbolt/ice beam/flamethrower/etc. hits harder and much more threats that their physical sets could wish for.

Besides Nidoking doesn't even get gunk shot on the physical side, for whatever fucking reason, so you're better off with special life orb.

>>28164285

Poison Jab is still better at dealing with Azumarill and Garde.

>>28163363
No offensive changes to ice will work, since water types basically all have ice beam access. It'll just make water better.

How about Steelix?

I know that what makes special Tauros work is his 2fast speed, but seeing as how Steelix isn't nearly as fragile I feel like it could maybe work

Earth Power
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
HP Ice/Elec

Worth a shot?

>>28164387
I want to try this

>>28163488
Let's go one step further
How about Ice is now super-effective and immune to water

>Fucking 40 Sp. Attack tauros is viable with life orb because of high speed

I know the answer is probably no, but I want to believe.

Is this the way to make Zen Mode Darmanitan viable?

>>28164449
I've seen some videos and replays of it doing well but it appears you need a bit of luck

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>>28163363
Just give Ice some actually fucking resistances. If Game Freak wants to keep defensive Pokemon out of the type, they need to make it resist more than itself.

>>28164387
I've got nothing better to do. Gonna go do math, fellow Steelixbro. Will report back with findings.

>ITT: anons prepare to make Spanish Inquisition: The Team

>>28164449

252HP/252Def/4SpDef
Relaxed Nature
Assault Vest
Flare Blitz
Fire Blast
Psychic
Grass knot/Focus Blast

Best I can think of. Just flare blitz yourself to half HP with normal Darm to get zen mode. The defense investment and assault vest will make it surprisingly bulky and ensure regular Darmanitan survives a hit in order to change in the first place.

>>28164589
>>28164387
Still in progress anon, but here's what I have.

Quiet Steelix, Sheer Force, Life Orb, 4 Atk EVs and 252 SpAtk EVs

Earth Power, Rock Slide, Heavy Slam

4 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 426-504 (143.4 - 169.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 Atk Life Orb Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Gardevoir: 416-491 (148 - 174.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Heatran: 468-551 (121.2 - 142.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 702-827 (249.8 - 294.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 169-200 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also 2HKOs Sableye and Lopunny

while Lopunny 3HKOs it at best

couldnt find a use for Dragon Breath or Dark Pulse. Unless Hidden Powers Ice or Fire turn out to be AMAZING, it may be better to go PHYSICAL Steelix with this

>>28164754

Is it still worth at that point if you just go full defense? I know 140 att/Sp. att is a lot but people tend to minmax, does it still break through?

>>28164155
your inner karenfag might be appalled by the things I can do to a Magcargo, then

>>28164812

Is Heavy Slam better than Flash Cannon in this case? It has a maximum BP of 120, while Flash Cannon starts at 80 and just goes up. Might even be worth putting a Choice Specs in that steelix over life orb

And wouldn't Dragon Breath/Pulse work better against dragonite since they have higher BP and are special? Rock Slide's a physical attack so it doesn't benefit that much

>>28164934

Show me

>only ice types can learn ice moves like ice beam
>water Pokemon cannot anymore

Way better.

ice should be immune to grass

>>28164946
>choice specs Steelix

YOU MONSTER

also yeah I'm retarded, I didnt see that Steelix learns Flash Cannon. It doesnt hit quite as hard as Heavy Slam against most things, even with those EVs, though.

and Dragon Breath was barely scratching Dragonite. Rock Slide was hurting it more. Then again,, could be a flaw in the damage cal program, since it doesnt acknowledge Dragon Breath as being a move that exists.

>>28164992

>YOU MONSTER

MOM'S GONNA FREAK

Really, at this point I'm just trying to see how fucking ridiculous one can make these unexpected sets. It's fun.

What calculator are you using?

Also, maybe it's worth running both flash cannon and heavy slam seeing as how steelix doesn't have that big a movepool. Redundant, maybe, but what're you gonna do

Maybe run HP Fire instead, it gets both faeries and ferrothorn, with Dragon Tail to force switches into anything we can't actualy hit.

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>>28164969
The goal is to use standard Shell Smash mindgames to find an opening exploitable enough to switch in and buff safely (just buffing once and relying on the sash is not recommended)

but the REAL beauty, once you deal with enemy Priority, comes from baiting a physical move while you buff. A Single Shell Smash and a single proc of Weak Armor brings the snail up to 568 SpAtk and 394 Speed. With stealth rock, this shit OHKOs Metagross, Dragonite, Tyranitar, and basically anything with a Fire, Ground, or Rock weakness. Shit, even some OU mons that ARENT weak to those types won't live through a STAB Flamethrower from 500+ SpAtk. And when you're THAT FAST, the fucks you give above only having 1 HP.

Just gotta clear out priority and scarves before you open the door.

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>>28165121

>394 Speed MagCargo

I got....How do I say this....I got a boner.

I never really learned how to calculate stat increases, what type of calculator should I get to add the speed and Sp. Attk buffs you get from shell smash and weak armor? Are they a set percentage?

>>28165105
Pokemon Showdown has a damage calculator. Using that.

And anon.... I don't know how to say this...

even with Choice Specs, HP Ice can't OHKO Dragonite...

but Steelix learns ICE FANG, which benefits from SHEER FORCE

which with 252 attack EVs will ABSOLUTELY fuck a Dragonite

more research required.

>>28165180
if a stat is raised, that's +50%. if a stat is Sharply Raised, that's +100%. These are additive, so three "rose!" in a row gives you +150%, while 3 "sharply rose!" in a row gives you +300%

ya dig?

Water should be weak to Ice and Poison.

>>28163363
>reading up on bio homework
>brief chapter on chemistry
>water resists temperature change more than most substances as it readily absorbs and releases heat

I finally realize why the type matchup between water resisting ice makes sense.

>>28164977
This would probably do more help to ice types than a general attack buff

>>28165274
Steelix doesn't have the movepool for special shenanigans

HOWEVER! Mawile does!

When someone sees a mawile, they immediatly assume mega mawile, but they'll never see this set coming

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 244-291 (121.3 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 187-224 (106.2 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Sludge Bomb vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 135-161 (72.1 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 164-195 (81.5 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is next level spanish inquisition

I never realized but ice-type has all the best trainers. The only meh there is maybe Pryce.

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>This thread
I'm intrigued. Gotta remember to save some of these builds for Showderp team or something.

Sheer Force abuse is way too fun

Are there any other abilities that enable bullshit like this?

>>28163363
Freeze dry is a totally irrelavent move

>>28165121
You're a genius.

Speaking of bullshit sets

Has anyone ever slapped a Wide Lens on hustle Durant and just meme'd people with it? Its speed is actually quite high, same with attack and defense.

>>28164021
>mirror shot
>flash cannon
>ignoring iron tail, steel wing, metal claw, and all the physical steel moves that were around first

>>28166382
I have, pretty fun to use even if I usually get shit on

So we are all agreed that one of these sets is a good inclusion for a team due to the surprise factor, but the true full Spanish Inquisition team would never work, right?

I still want to believe

>>28164069
Holy shit I'll have to try this.

>>28166190
Hustle is sorta abusable if you can live with the accuracy drop

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Corsola Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Mega Charizard X: 534-630 (148.7 - 175.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

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>Ice now resists water and ground
>Loses weakness to rock
>Hail now gives ice types a 50% boost to defense
>Water types aren't affected by hail anymore (?)
>Maybe a new move that gets a special property from hail? Kinda like how Solarbeam gets charged faster under sunlight.

Is it good now?

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>>28167026

Offensive Like Glaceon
and Defensive like Regice

Id love that.

>>28163897
>Fighting-types can break metal and rocks
>can't crack ice

explain

>>28169357
Fighting type being super effective against steel is fucking stupid. Rock I get, a guy puching a brick to dust is a pretty iconic concept, and as a result I think fighting beating ice is fine, but not steel.

>>28164387
Dragon Pulse doesn't get the Sheer Force boost. You might as well use something else.

>>28165121
I actually made a Magcargo with a similar concept of Shell Smash and Weak Armor but never tested it. The thing that gets me is how damn weak Ancientpower is and how there's not enough Special Rock moves.

I never got to try it but Endure + Weakness Policy was always interesting to me. A couple different Pokemon could potentially make good use of it.
>Accelgor
>Hitmonlee
>obviously Blaziken
>Weak Armor Kabutops
>Ninjask (for maximum Baton Pass)
It literally has nothing to sweep with. Give the poor thing Acrobatics for fuck's sake. That and Scyther. Assuming you get rid of all priority threats spamming Acrobatics would be fucking incredible.