Why haven't any of the post-Gen 1 games featured a protagonist

>>28015645
What development? Blue has more development than he does.

>...

So complex and developed

>>28015645
>as developed and complex as Red?
>complex

What's so complex about him and why is Red's cock stuck in your throat?

>>28015691
>Missing all the rich subtext

he's an autist, that's kind of complex.

>>28015645
Complex lol

Red had no development
Bait Aside
The BW B2W2 and ORAS protags had tons of development
Hell there was a fucking romance in B2W2 and kind of one in ORAS

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>Fatherless with a neglectful mother
>A friend turned Rival
>A dream to become a Pokemon master
>Gets made fun of and taken advantage of for being a mute. Despite this he strives to prove himself.
>Has a special connection with both people and Pokemon that makes them instantly trust him
>Brave enough to take on and topple an entire terrorist organization by himself
>Despite his rival being ahead on him every step of the way, he never gets discouraged and keeps on going
>Finally fulfills his dream of becoming a Pokemon master and defeating his rival
>Still feeling inadequate he reliquishes his champion title to Lance and exiles himself to Mt.Silver to train and discover himself
>Red slowly loses his sanity and knows nothing else but battling and training. He never leaves the mountain and loses contact with all his friends
>After being defeated by Gold, Red is freed from his obsession and returns home to start a new life

Gosh Gen 1 was fucking dripping in subtext

>>28015928
[citation needed] on like half of that

>>28015928
Points 2,3,6,7,8, and 9 I believe in. The rest need some further citations to back them up.

>>28015928
I love how you invent motivations out of nowhere. By this logic all the protags of every game are "complex".

>>28015928
look who the fuck rolled in from /r/fanfictions

>>28015928
It's also implied Blue bullied Red.

>>28015928
Headcanons don't count as subtext. That's like implying Norman was a divorced alcoholic which explains why he lives away from home.

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>this thread

>>28015984
You have to admit it is pretty good fanfiction though.

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>>28015645

>>28015928
Edgy self-insert Gary Stu.

Your fanfictions are piles of pure shit.

>>28016223
>>28016288

>>28015645
>complex
Red is pretty much the Ryu of Pokemon, so I wouldn't say he's complex.

none of the protagonists have any development at all

only their alternate universe selves where they're rivals/neighbours/faggot assistants have development

red is just as complex as any of them

>>28016367
red has the most development of all because he actually appears in games as his player self. all the others are less developed them him, save perhaps the black/white protagonists because of b2w2

>>28016344
I wouldn't say you're complex

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>>28015928
>mute

>>28015928
>Fatherless with a neglectful mother
His mother cares about him and worries, since he hasn't seen her in a while, he speaks positively about his dad if you look at one of the TVs in the game.

>A dream to become a Pokemon master
Really he and Blue are just Oak's errand boys, since they only got their PokeDexs to complete it for Oak, doing gyms and becoming the champ was just a side thing.

>Gets made fun of and taken advantage of for being a mute. Despite this he strives to prove himself.
No one makes fun of him, hell in universe he talks, just we the player rarely see it.

>Finally fulfills his dream of becoming a Pokemon master and defeating his rival
If its anything like kung-fu mastery he's still improving and getting better, I'm sure he likely doesn't even think of himself as a master.

Also he's beating Blue a number of times before this point.

>Red slowly loses his sanity and knows nothing else but battling and training. He never leaves the mountain and loses contact with all his friends
Seeing as he's around other people in BW2 I'm going to say he keeps in context with people.

>After being defeated by Gold, Red is freed from his obsession and returns home to start a new life
No

The most complex protag is the RSE one. He is the only one with a dad. And the only one who has a backstory (moves from another region). There's nothing more, the protag is always a generic kid.

>>28016584
>Brendan/May moved from Johto
>Flannery comments after you beat her that you battle like Norman implying he's trained you in Pokemon battles
>May/Brendan are very implied to be your love interest in ORAS

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>>28015928
Try not to cut yourself, Edgelord

>>28015928

Don't forget that he is also trans and black

>>28016424
Oh yeah. I forgot about the copy cat girl

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>>28015645

All of them are interesting.

>>28016759
Rip kris

>>28016813
lyra is better

>>28016759
Red
>Im here to win nigga
Ethan
>Im here for the fun
Brendan
>Im here for /fit/
Lucas
>I just finish my art classes
Hilbert
>I like Red outfit
Nate
>My mom choose my cloths baby
Calem
>/fa/
Alola fag
>Ness copy

>red goes up to people and autisticly asks if they like pokemon
>he is literally just another one of those "Hey! I love Pokemon, do you?" NPCs

>>28015928
Except he would say things like "Dad would love this!"

>literally supposed to be a quiet, blank slate that players can project themselves on to
>developed

you what

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>>28015928
>red is mute
I bet you think every silent protagonist isn't capable of talking

Red's just serves as something for all the edgelords and teenagers to eat up and proclaim as "da best pokemanz trainer evar!!!" yet he's literally never even been hinted towards as being the "best pokemon trainer ever" and certainly not the most complex protagonist. The only reason he's in some of the games is for a callback and nostalgia service to all the genwunners.

Even though all the protagonist's don't have much complexity, if you really wanted the most complex one it would probably be the BW ones, mainly because in BW2 he's hinted towards mysteriously and actually accomplished something great. He awakened the dragon and beat Team Plasma and ruined Ghetsis' plans, and then goes missing after that. In BW2 their mother even mistakes you for them and says that she's worried about them and would go and find them if only she wasn't afraid that they'd come back when she's gone. They were also in the beta of BW2 in the PWT (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Black_2_and_White_2_beta#Pok.C3.A9mon_World_Tournament) and made references to their friendship with N, which is also one of the only protagonists to have an established friendship with someone else.

>>28017010
>face him alone on the peak of the mountain
>has the highest levelled team of any NPC
>he says nothing, you just battle
>says nothing when he loses, just disappears/leaves
>"yet he's literally never even been hinted towards as being the "best pokemon trainer ever"
epic

>>28017088
If he lost, he's not the best trainer ever, now is he?

>>28016418
I really wouldn't, either. I work, I cook, I parent, I play video games. Not terribly complex

>>28017096
you can complete the national pokedex and own all the mythical event legendaries and have them all be level 100 with max IVs and perfect EV training and good natures and mostly all shiny/all shiny in plenty of games and with plenty of characters, but that is only a potential because the player is in control of what they'll be

if we ranked them by their in-game performances then the main character of the most recent game would always be the best because they have the most pokemon, and by this logic, sunfag would be the best

red is however shown to be the strongest as an NPC

>>28017088
Isn't Steven from Emerald stronger?

>>28017188
Sorry you can't handle the fact that Red gets bootyblasted by Gold/Crystal/Ethan/Lyra

>>28017207
Yea, especially because red's team is complete garbage.

>>28017010
The BW protagonist just vanishing for 2 years, with not even N knowing where they are was some spooky shit.

Probably died.

>>28017207
his pokemon are lower levelled (compared to HGSS) and besides he's just a fag digging in some cave for some gay stones to give to wallace. it's not half as dramatic and final-bossy

>>28017188
Yea and gold/lyra canonically beats red
So gold>red

>>28017263
probably got tired of the world and decided he was done with it

>>28017088
>>28017096
>>28017188
>>28017207
Nate/Rosa>Ethan/Lyra>=Hilbert/Hilda>Red/Leaf>everyone else

>>28017301
He probably is stoned somewhere in unova

>>28017286
But at the family trainer house North of Mauville City, they said you'd be shaking in frustration if you fought him.

>>28017302
nah

Nate/Rosa>=Ethan/Lyra>Leaf/Brandon/May/Lucas/Dawn/Hilbert/Hilda/Calem/Serena>Red

>>28017188
>Barry the sperglord with ADHD has 6 Pokemon that are almost as high leveled as Red in HGSS and higher than Red in GSC

Also, levels don't mean shit. Doesn't change retarded AI. Also, Red as an unevolved Pikachu on his team. If you want something closer to strongest Trainer, look at someone with not "muh level 88 Pikachu" but someone with an actually okay-good choice of team, strategy, and doesn't have an unevolved Pokemon on their team. Like N. I'm pretty sure he's the only character in the main story with a legendary on his team and in BW2 he uses weather teams, an actual strategy and utilises items like weather rocks and weather abilities to help him with that. Any 5 year old can spend weeks walking around in the grass training their Charizard to level 100 but it takes thought and strategy to actually beat people who also take the time to level to 100.

>>28017353
>>28017302
They're all self-inserts and literal non-characters with no development you retards.

The only thing you can judge them on is design.

>>28017263
Yeah, it kind of frustrated me that in one of the only games that it would make sense, a direct sequel set in the same region as BW1, the BW protagonists don't make an appearance. I thought it would be a great idea because they could use the Memory Link to have him/her use your BW name, the dragon you caught in BW on his team and your BW gender. But nah, he didn't even make an appearance in the PWT, but Red did. Fucking Red.

Also, if you talk to the BW protag's mother, she says they were off looking for someone called "N", so it's implied that they went on a wild goose chase looking for N when N just decided to dick around in Unova for a while longer.

Basically everyone but the player gets developed because you're the only one that knows what you want to do from the start.

Take BW:
>Hilbert/Hilda and their friends want to be pokemon trainers
>Their parents ask Juniper to give them a Pokédex to finally go on a journey
>N wants to get rid of humans and training as a whole because "muh perfuckt world"
>Hilbert/Hilda don't question shit and just go on their happy trip
>Bianca at first is excited to be a trainer, but hesitates because her father's a fucking nuisance and wants her to go back home
>At the end she becomes the professor's assistant (and gets hotter by BW2)
>Cheren wants to be the best trainer, but acts like a little shit
>It's not until someone he looks up to tells him to calm his tits that he starts to act like a normal person
>N starts to understand that Pokemon battles are a form of bonding between a human and their partners so he goes on a self-search and fucks off for two years

Literally, the only one with a tiny bit of common sense is the player in every game.

Also, it woulda been fucking awesome if Hilbert/Hilda appeared in BW2 as a final boss (Not to appeal to your Red fetish)

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>>28015645
>liking cyan pants
Here is a better protagonist for you.

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>>28017088
>>28017096
Gold rekting Red on Mt.Silver with his super-rod when?

>>28017359
>bringing competitive autism logic into discussions of actual canonical traits of characters
they are two separate things. red can be the strongest trainer while having a team that looks kind of good but is actually shit.

N is a good champion-level trainer and possibly approaches red and possibly rivals red but he's also a memer who can't keep pokemon, whereas I would argue that the pokemon canon favors those who keep pokemon as lifelong partners as stronge

kind of related
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Black_2_and_White_2_beta#Quotes

>>28017857

While I would agree with you on the fact that N is weak because he only uses Pokemon from each area, at the end of BW he actually gets character development and realises that using Pokemon in battles isn't a bad thing, and in BW2 he keeps his teams and only rotates through the seasons. Also, it's stated that to have Reshiram/Zekrom join your team you have to be recognised as a strong hero, and since N is easily able to recruit them without even having to catch it, it's a testament to N's skill. If you really wanted to go by NPC's and canonical traits, then yes, I suppose Red is a good battler, but N's ability to instantly make friends with even the strongest of Pokemon shows how good N can be too. He just never showed his strength because he always used to release Pokemon after they were done helping him.

>>28016998
Why are they all Vegeta? Am I missing something?

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>>28018037
>"Everything can be understood through Pokémon battles! Let's go!"
>"Words are the source of all misunderstanding! Everything can be understood through Pokémon battles! Let's go!"
>"You communicate with Pokémon using feelings, not words! Everything can be understood through Pokémon battles! Let's go!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgZkgt4Jnxc

>>28017088
>>he says nothing,
... this isnt even remotely true at all. He doesnt have specific dialogue because he's supposed to be a reflection of the player

>>28017339
That was just a victory road trainer. Steven's name doesn't even start with a V.

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>>28015928
> like nearly every protagonist.
>they were always rivals
>oh, so a trainer wants to gid gud, like everyone?
>mute, no protagonist ever talks in the games
>like every protagonist
>he had help, also like every protagonist
> no protagonist would
>like every protagonist
>pretty much the only cool thing about him
>what is this fanmade story shit, ayyy
>again, what tumblr story is this? hahaha

>>28019540
>he had help, also like every protagonist
I'm not even that anon, and I think he's full of shit myself, but Red didn't have any help from anyone.

He's the only protag this has happened to.

>>28019540
best fucking characters, I love those 2.

protagonist male:
3>1>2>BW2>BW1>4>6
protagonist female:
3>4>5>Leaf>6>2>>>>>>Mario

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>>28017329

>>28019600

not the same anon.

Didn't he had help from the dragonite champion? don't know his english name.

And to be honest ,team rocket was the weakest team, magmar/aqua,galactic and so on are much much crazier and stronger (storywise)

>>28019600
That old man helped him learn how to catch pokemon. Checkmate athiests.

>>28019749
>Didn't he had help from the dragonite champion? don't know his english name.
Johto's protag got his help, there was no champ in Kanto till Blue and Red, since the Pokemon League just opened up in that region.

>And to be honest ,team rocket was the weakest team
I'd have to agree with you on that.

>>28019774
kek

>>28016865
>not
Red
>let's wreck em
Ethan
>let's wreck em
Brendan
>let's wreck em
Lucas
>let's wreck em
Hilbert
>let's wreck em
Nate
>let's rekt em
Calem
>let's wreck em
Alola Dude
>let's wreck em

>>28018327
Toriyama has a habit of using vegetas face all the time, also occasionally goku

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>>28017581
>liking a character that's intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor

>MC
>Development

Anon....

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>>28017010
Half the trainers in BW2 talk about shit they did with the protag or compare you to them so that even if you never played BW1 you would still know of them. I'd say that makes them the most developed since they're apart of a games plot that they aren't the actual protagonist of.

>>28019840
>not
Red
>Watashi wa sorera o hakai shimasu!
Ethan
>Watashi wa sorera o hakai shimasu!
Brendan
>Watashi wa sorera o hakai shimasu!
Lucas
>Watashi wa sorera o hakai shimasu!
Hilbert
>let's wreck em!
Nate
>let's rekt em
Calem
>Je vais les détruire!
Alola Dude
>ONGA BONGA !

>>28015645
Because he's the only main character who actually got some sort of growth outside of his main game and outside of the player. We can fight him, because of that we know how his main team is formed, and thanks to that we know which game is the canon one (Yellow) along with what events actually happened. We know which one was his starter and since he's the one on the Champion Tournament on Black 2, we know he became the Pokemon Champion and not Leaf. Things like those along with his mysterious but imposing attitude, puts him in a very different league than every other main character.

>>28017010
I still want to know what happened to Hilbert and Nate. Canonically they would have to be the champion, right? Yet there's no references pointing to their status.

>>28020133
Meant to type Hilda instead of Nate, don't even know what happened there.

>>28020116
>Yellow canon
>When Blue's team isn't his Yellow team

>>28020351
>>28020116
Don't fucking start this shit. The same shitposting happened in the canon starter thread.

>>28015928
I WAS going to say that most of these apply to Ash (just replace 'mute' with 'loser', 'brave' with 'stupid', and remove the bit about him doing it by himself) but
>Finally fulfills his dream of becoming a Pokemon master
Never mind.

>>28019988
>>28020133

Yeah, I agree. I still wish Hilbert/Hilda were featured or at least mentioned more in BW2 because of all the things they did in the original BW. Perhaps I'm silly for wanting depth for a protag in a Pokemon game, but I feel there could be so much potential in a direct sequel for featuring the legacy of the previous character you played as. Not even Cheren or Bianca make much mention of them besides "ahh you remind me of this one trainer, oh that's the one, you know, my childhood best friend that I went on a journey with and whom went missing for two years, whatever" and the Memory Link battles, and they were supposed to be their best friends. It's nice that the scarce and vague mentions of the previous character makes them seem kind of legendary, but I really would have liked it if they had appeared as a battleable NPC and had some personality to them.

>>28020794
The fact that they removed them from being fightable in the PWT is the biggest kick in the teeth.

>>28015645
I think Hilbert/Hilda is probably the most fleshed out just by how much everyone talks about them in BW2

>Red and the B/W protags will always be the only ones who we know what happened after finishing the game
I really wanna know what happened to the MCs of the other regions too