I'm sort of new to Pokemon lore, but is Arceus really God

The best explanation is that it created the Universe, but that exhausted its power and now it's (albeit the strongest of them all) just a Legendary Pokemon.

Because pokemon lore is shit.

You need a code, don't you?

Creation Deity =/= Omnipotent God

>>27993679
That kinda makes sense, it just seems like a ridiculous pokemon to me. The sheer power of the thing seems not to fit in with the rest of Pokemon, but I'm a genwunner so I literally know nothing anyway. Thanks though
>>27993705
got one already m80

>>27993679
It's also implied to have split its power among Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and the Lake trio.

Arceus didn't create everything, it created the beginning. Basically, it set the dominoes and then knocked over the first one. The Legendaries it created and actual evolution also had a hand in creation

>>27993739
Got'cha.

>>27993835

Basically this. This is why Mewtwo and most likely Zygarde Perfect Forme are just as powerful as it is. Mortals surpassing God.

>>27993870
Can you explain to me what the fuck Zygarde is? I'm currently going through my first play through of X so I've not got to him yet, but he confuses me. Are his formes similar to Deoxys or is there something else going on? And why does he looked like a Digimon at 100%

Maybe it's just an incarnation of itself.
Like Jesus

>>27993886

He keeps the world and nature in balance. He's constructed of tons of Zygarde Cells that form around a tiny Zygarde Core, which is just a tiny chibi Zygarde. So the more cells he has, the more his form beefs up til he reaches Perfect. Bout it really. We don't know any other relevant things about him til SuMo.

>>27993914
That makes much more sense, thank you anon

>>27993661
Here are all of Arceus's dex entries:
>It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.
>It is described in mythology

>It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
>It is told in mythology

>According to the legends of Sinnoh, this Pokémon emerged from an egg and shaped all there is in this world.
>According to the legends of Sinnoh

It's most likely a very strong Pokémon to which people have attributed folklore. People seem to forget that it's possible for there to be fiction within fiction.

>>27993661
Arceus is a creation God, not an omnipotent one. It was the first thing, then made the Creation Trio, the Lake Trio, and ostensibly Mew to go from there.

It's power is a reflection of having a little bit of everything within it.

Along with >>27993741, it is often theorized that the "1000 arms" the 'dex entries speak of are actually referring to a vast number of Arceus platforms, each one an avatar of a larger Arceus entity. Arceus also is almost confirmed to heavily hold back when captured, somewhat similar to how a Palkia or Dialga owned by a trainer does not go off creating new universes. The evidence for this is the HGSS Sinjoh ruins event where an Arceus in your party, depending on your interpretation of events, creates an entire new universe right before you, extracts one of the Creation Trio's eggs from it, then destroys it.

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It's the god of creation but as >>27993725 said it's clearly not an omnipotent being.

It didn't create everything there is in the pokémon universe itself but rather fathered everything by proxy, as it's first creations, Palkia, Dialga and Giratina made more creations.

Many religions from the past that are considered mythology today worshipped deities that although powerful were not omnipotent, like the egyptian gods, the shintoist gods and the 12 olympian gods of ancient greece. The abrahamic religions were probably the ones that introduced the idea of an all powerful, all knowing and ubiquitous god. But just because you grew up with this idea doesn't mean all deities are supposed or believed to have these characteristics.

>>27993954
People might attach bells and whistles to its legend (the whole 1,000 arms bit), but I think the general consensus that it's indirectly responsible for existence as the Pokemon world knows it isn't incorrect. I mean, it literally creates a being that manipulates time/space/antimatter right in front of you in HG/SS.

>>27993661
His voice though....

>>27993870
/tg/fag plz.

>>27994140

Anime isn't canon.

How does Mew fit in all of this? Every pokemon comes from it, does that mean Arceus created Mew first and then let "evolution" go its way?

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>>27993914

No. Uxie, Azelf and Mesprit keep the Eartg in balance.

>>27994193

No.

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>>27994193

Arceus didn't create Grimer and several other Pokémon.

>>27994193
More or less, actually. Mew were probably the first lifeforms that cropped up when Kyogre and Groudon were forming everything. Then evolution happened and here we are.

>>27994284

No. Fanon.

Where the codes at?

>>27994299
Yes, Richard, these are fanon. Go back to fapping to pokedex entries.

>>27994299
Oh, sorry. What's the official explanation, then?

>>27994316

No fanon information please.

>>27994319

I don't know where Arceus egg come from?

>>27994193
Mew was likely just the first mortal and the first being given a soul by the Lake Trio. Hence why Mew looks like them. Some Pokemon were created artificially later on yet Mew can transform into those. Its just a move.

>>27994369

Fanon.

Look what you did, op
You summoned HIM again

DPP fucking ruined legendaries by introducing literally gods of creation, space and time, satan, le three meme pixies of le balance, and tons of other useless legendary clutter.

Just one of the many reasons 4th gen was the lowest point in the series.

>>27994209

False. They keep the Mind, Body, and Spirit in-tact for Humans and Pokemon alike.

>>27994350
It's said from 'The Void', but that's so general and could mean so many different things that you can't really make heads or tails of it.

Following from OP pokemon, are we expecting Solgaleo and Lunala to have created the sun and the moon?

>>27994464
giratina isn't satan, it's just a poke that lives in another dimension and balances shit out from the shadows to keep Dialga and Palkia in check.

>>27994485

They keep the World in balance.

Are You confusing?

OP, watch all the pokemon movies in order if you're interested in the lore. They don't actually answer many questions but you'll have a grasp of what every legendary is about.

>>27994556

The Movies are not canon.

>>27994464
This. It was fun when legendaries were rare birds and shit that's rare to come by and some don't even believe they exist cos there's like one of them. This cross-dimensional fuckery is too much for me

>>27994486

Vortex is a Vortex.

>>27994464
I enjoyed when they were just powerful element based pokemon. Now they're angemon level digimon in OP power and rankings. Also Manaphy and Phione were a mistake

>>27994499

We shall see.

>>27994605

No. Don't acknowledge digimon on here.

>>27993870
Yeah sure dude. BST and lore are separate. Kyogre is nowhere near the power of Palkia. Rayquaza is a trillion times stronger than Slaking.

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>>27994633
It's kind of hard not to

>>27994696

I don't really care about Pokémon designs.

I care about collecting of all the Pokémon and Pokémon lore.

>>27994696
I think you should stop playing Pokémon if you care about Pokémon designs.

>>27994683
I dunno. I really like the idea of Slaking being a common Pokemon with the power to overthrow gods, that chooses not to because he's fucking lazy.

>>27993661
>I'm sort of new to Pokemon lore, but is Arceus really God of everything? Did it actually create the world, pokemon and everything else?
Yes,
>How does such an OP thing exist and is abled to be caught by a pokeball?
Its a pokemon.

>>27994854

It didn't create Grimer.

Supposedly, what you catch is a physical body that it uses as a proxy. It doesn't and never will have all the capabilities of an ethereal being.

>>27994683
This. In game you can defeat any mon with a level 1 FEAR mon, but that doesn't mean anything lorewise.

Rayquaza can destroy giant asteroids. Dialga and Palkia can destroy the universe. Arceus can create Dialga, Palkia and Giratina.

These are the ONLY tangible pieces of evidence. Everything else is fanon and headcanon. You can make educated guesses with that knowledge.

>>27993969
>Arceus also is almost confirmed to heavily hold back when captured
Do you have any source for that that doesnt stem from a westerner not being able to process fiction?

>>27993835
>arceus didnt create everything
>it just created everything
You really dont get creationism dont you?

>>27994464
There`s literally nothing wrong with introducing more powerful legendaries. You just need to drop that "hurr its bad if its too powerful" mentality.

>>27994992
kys

>the game means nothing

What is "the truth" then?

>>27994556
That's actually a bad idea since they don't even match up with the game lore most of the time. In Latios and Latias's case they had to invent lore completely from scratch.

>>27994377
Genwunfag plz.

>>27994921
Team Plasma boss says that pokeballs weaken legendaries you nitwit. Hence why he wanted to control Dialga/Palkia with the red gems.

>>27994921
I don't see many other ways to interpret the Sinjoh ruins event. And it sure as hell doesn't do that in battle.

>>27994921
It's implied when Cyrus gives you the Master Ball. Actually play the games for a change and then kys.

>>27995007
>kys
way to prove you are underage

>>27994868
It was created later but he kickstarted it. You`re american right?

>>27994921
See
>>27995036
>>27995062
Maybe if you join the rest of us filthy gaijin, you'll actually be able to read the story.

>>27995036
Oh, that. I thought you meant something arceus—specific.

>>27995036

It is fanon. You dumb fuck

I guarantee you, the Japanese don't even debate this junk, and it has nothing to do with the games either.

>>27995171

1. Arceus is just the Physical form of the original spirit.

2. Arceus gender is unknown.

3. Arceus created the Universe.
Not every Pokémon.

>>27995053
Pretty sure that arceus creating a legendary\universe out of scratch doesnt prove he cant do so.

>>27995062
>>27995201
That applies to all legendaries. The way anon worded it implied something extra was said about arceus.

>>27993886
The way I see it is that Zygarde is essentially the voice of the planet.

>>27995250
4. none of it

>>27994499
They're emissaries of the sun/moon, not really deities who created them.

>>27995280

Arceus is not a male.

>>27995293

5. You lack knowledge about Pokémon.

>>27995250
>
>1. Arceus is just the Physical form of the original spirit.
Que
>2. Arceus gender is unknown.
Wont deny that
>3. Arceus created the Universe.
>Not every Pokémon.
All other mons were created in the universe though. But yeah, he didnt literally create every single one.

>>27995330
6. There is nothing to know. It's not real.

>>27995335

Stop calling Arceus a male.

>>27994992
There's a difference between making them powerful and making them fucking gods retard.
This why gen 4 has the worst legendary trio.

>>27993661
I always figured the Arceus you capture was just a weaker avatar of the real thing, or it purposefully holds back because being the Pokemon of a trainer for a measely 80 years is probably nothing.

The Arceus event in HGSS has it outright redo the universe in front of you, so it's clearly still powerful.

>>27995348

Stop playing Pokémon.

>>27995310
Ok, it*

>>27995377

Better.

>>27995356
You're a goddamn retard if you think no one has ever called a Legendary he or she.

>>27995356
Ok, sorry

>>27995368
>There's a difference between making them powerful and making them fucking gods retard.
Only the amount of power it has lore—wise

>>27995356
>he doesn't want to take the shaft of this sexy beast, and have the word of Arceus spread all over his back

>>27995310
>>27995356
Triggered? God is referred to with a capitalized male pronoun you tumblrinas.

>>27995356
>autism

>>27995230
>team galactic boss explicitly says this
>still fanon
Whatever you say Skipper.

>>27995391

Arceus gender is unknown.

We don't know if it's a male or a female.

>>27994193
Mew is the common ancestor to all normal Pokemon. There are a handful of exceptions

>>27995413

Arceus didn't create Mew.
You dumb fuck

>>27995399
>Only the amount of power it has lore—wise
Thanks for pointing out the problem dumbass.

>>27995440
There`s literally no problem with that.

>>27995435

Pure fanon.

>>27995375
Now why would I do that? I actually like pokemon. You, however, seem disingenuous. Why else would you claim authority over anyone else?

>>27995310
Arceus is genderless, but it is still common to refer to things like it as He. It is a ruling that trumps gender pronouns. I doubt that most deities could accurately be defined as male or female as we understand it, and yet that doesn't stop the trend. The Christian God's name is literally the verb "To be" conjugated in the male tense.

>>27993914
>SuMo
FUCK OFF REDDIT

>>27995452
>no problem in jumping the shark and establishing a god long before the end
You started with 4 didn't you

>>27995470

Unknown Gender =\= Genderles

>>27995439
1, nothing that you replied to said anything about Mew whatsoever.

2, that is neither confirmed nor denied.

Biggest problem with Arceus and the other 4th gen legendaries is that it makes everything that comes after it look less impressive. I mean, who cares if Solgaleo can control the sun, or create suns, or whatever? If it had come right after gen 3 it would be cool, but now it is kinda whatever.

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>>27995404

It says deity.

a deity could be a female or male.

>>27995504

I said you are completely different person.

I wasn't talking to you.

>>27995496
Not him, I'm a kantokid, and while the Gen 4 legendaries are a bit of a mess, I believe it was good for the series to get them out of the way early. It stopped the endless "The latest, most powerful pokemon, Stronger even than Mewtwo/Mew/Lugia/Groudon and Kyogre/Rayquaa" trend that dominated up to Gen 4. Starting with gen 5, they were able to move on to more creative things, since Arceus is basically untrumpable.

>>27995232
There's a Japanese comic the gets posted sometimes where a bunch of kids swarm juniper with a bunch of questions that fans like to argue about. One of the kids yells out "who came first, arceus or mew?", so apparently Japan likes to argue about it too.

>>27995496
>>jumping the shark
Not what happened
>establishing a god long before the end
Explain what`s wrong with it
>You started with 4 didn't you
Gen 1. Which made having gods even better.

>>27995368
What? So you want them to be called something other than legendary? Stop crying and accept it. There's no reason they shouldn't be legendaries.

>>27995531
You would still refer to it as He, even if it were explicitly female.

>>27995464

What nonsense are you talking about?

>>27995599

No. I wouldn't.

I'm not sexist like you.

>>27995570
There has to be a point where they introduced the stongest pokemon. It would be better to have it in the middle than the last gen.

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>this thread

>>27995639
>strongest pokemon

Mewtwo
Arceus
Mega Mewtwo
Mega Rayquaza

>>27995639
Nah, they should have left it until the end. Especially since they jumped from exceptionally strong pokemon straight to gods and deities.

So is the general consensus for legendary power 4>3>6>1>2>5?

>>27995687
Nah
4>6>3>2>5>1

>>27993661
It's probably more like the king of gods in polytheistic religions.

>>27995686
Don't see the problem with it Tbh. Who cares what order it followed? If mew and mewtwo were still the strongest pokemon people would be bitching too. Just because they're gods shouldn't degrade their likability. Its retarded if the only reason you dislike them is because they didnt follow your imaginary timeline.

>>27995599
>you would still refer to it as He, even if it were explicitly female

This doesn't make any sense

>>27995630
Well, good for you, but you'd be wrong.
I'm not sexist either. There are simply rules about language that are followed because otherwise nobody knows what the fuck everyone else is talking about. Maybe these rules are based on a fucked-up or outdated premise, but that doesn't change the fact that this is the way the English language works. Proper organization of thought and language is more important than people's feelings.

>>27995687
Seems about right. I'd say 1=2 though. Lugia can create storms (albeit unintentionally sometimes) and Ho-Oh pulled a small-scale Xerneas with the Beasts, who are very powerful in their own right.

>>27995738
What are you even talking about?

>>27995763
Can you not read? Not my problem

None of you have the power to say anything.

Seriously though is there any legendary pokemon that can stand a chance against the creation trio, or even the lake trio except for arceus? They seem impossibly powerful.

>>27995788
You aren't even trying to make a coherent point anon. You're just saying "no they're good!"

Also the worst thing a series can do is leap across its boundaries without a steady progression. Gen 4 didn't just leap over it it smashed through with no regard of anything.
That's why gen 4 is the most disliked.

>>27995809
Hoopa-Unbound... might be able to? It's powers seem a little poorly defined, but it has at least some ability to manipulate dimensions, which could at least be troublesome.

>>27995872
Which is unsettling since if that were true, then the existence of Dialga and Palkia are pointless.

>>27995872
It could probably take out dialga and giratina with some attack teleporting shit but Palkia completely beats it at its own game.

>>27995756

Arceus gender is unknown.

>>27995838
>steady progression
So what pokemon did?

Also, there`s nothing wrong with the franchise overcoming its "limits"

>>27995838
>>27995838
>Steady progression
Steady progression? Progression of what? How would you progress after Gen 3? Gen 3 had legendaries related to Earth and nature. So the only logical thing to do is with the next gen have the legendaries related to stuff out of earth, or in the case, the universe itself. Youre saying going from Gen 3 to Gen 5 is progression? How is going from Earth and Nature to Ying and Yang progression? How? There was no progression to begin with anyway. Mew and Mewtwo were the strongest pokemon until Gen 4. So how is that progression? Were gens 2-3 pointless then in your book?

Btw my argument wasnt saying theyre good. Im saying its stupid to dislike them because they didnt follow your own timeline. Stupid

>>27995687
>>27995715
My headcanon is
4>6>3=7>1>5>2

>>27995943
>Also, there`s nothing wrong with the franchise overcoming its "limits"
The problem is that it didnt. Especially the Sinnoh games themselves.

>>27995957
Are you seriously trying to say that the physical representaions earth and seas are all there is?

>>27995872
I dont understand Hoopas powers. I dont look at the movie because it had a shit ton of plot holes. I dont think hoopas powers connect to the creation trio because then the creation trio can use their own powers to negate its ability. So idk

If you're going to talk about limitations, this discussion is henceforth nullified. All limitations were made nonexistent when this franchise was more than a game.

>>27995914
Lets use metaphors. If Palkia and Dialga made the internet, Hoopa-Unbound is the best hacker in the universe. No Palkia and Dialga, no internet, so Hoopa-Unbound would be totally useless. Hoopa-Unbound might be able to manipulate the internet, but it still needs the internet to manipulate.

Replace "Internet" with "Spacetime", and "Hacker" with, um, Hoopa, and you'll get the picture.

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>>27993661

Victini have unlimited energy.

>>27995984
What? When did i say that

>>27995996
And one can question if they really existed to begin with since internal contradictions make the game invalid as well.

>>27995435
I filtered fanon thanks to this thread.

Eat my dick, autist.

>>27996023
So could the internet then create a firewall to block the hacker? Because since the internet has power over the internet, cant it do whatever it wants with the internet?

>>27995984
>>27995984
>it didnt
You literally said it did.

>>27996034
>How would you progress after Gen 3? Gen 3 had legendaries related to Earth and nature. So the only logical thing to do is with the next gen have the legendaries related to stuff out of earth, or in the case, the universe itself.
You must be kidding if you think that "lol gods" was an appropriate thing to do at that point in time and that there's nothing else to explore on earth. That said even then they could have made more extraterrestrial pokemon instead if the wanted to go beyond earth.

>>27996074
So you filtered 99% of /vp/?

>>27996086
Why not? And the only one calling them gods is you. They're beings that control properties of the universe that allow the universe to exist. I dont see a problem with this and i dont see how this makes Gen 4 a bad Gen. What logical progression comes after earth and nature? Nothing thats more powerful than earth and nature. Therefore the universe was added and Gen 4 created.

>>27993661
It is God's first Pokemon.

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I'm a little awed by how beautiful I find Arceus sometimes

>>27996182

It's just the Physical form of the original spirit.

>>27996076
Probably, but the Hacker will come up with new ways. Remember, this is the best Hacker in the world. It won't ever break the internet, its own existence would be imperiled by doing so, but it is one of the only things that can even stick its thumb up the Internet's ass in the first place, which is notable.

>>27996212
Source?

>>27996076
Dialga can in fact shatter the time travel portals Celebi uses in the Mystery Dungeon spin offs. Notably it can do this while being totally insane and having lost nearly all of its control over time.

>>27996212
I feel this. Even though its just a theory i can definitely see this hapening when they give Arceus his original form. And it could be connected to the Primal forms of the creation trio too. Like when Giratina was said to be raging and Arceus sent it to the distortion world, arceus could have taken away most of its powers at the same time. Then in doing this it was afraid its other two creations would rebel as well, so it took the original powers of dialga and palkia away, storing it somewhere in the universe.

>>27996233
So who would be more poweful? The hacker or the internet? Or would it just be an infinite cycle of better or worse?

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>>27996244
>>27996285

>>27996336
Dialga and Palkia can literally destroy universes without breaking a sweat. Hoopa has absolutely nothing on them.

>>27996384
Is he stating that he knows it or asking about it for knowledge. I dont know the context here.

Stop beating around the bush. You know that something would totally destroy itself to undo something else just to prove it can be done.

>>27996384
fuck off richard

>>27996384
>see thumbnail
>its a screenshot
>expect screenshotfag
>screenshot actually explains what the anon meant

Great, thanks

What the ever loving fuck happened to this thread?

>>27993661
Think of Arceus as god and Mew as jesus..in a way

>>27994550
>Literally called the rebellion Pokemon
>Imprisoned for its misdeeds.
>Tried to fuck shit up but Arceus imprisoned it and pretty much tied it towards the Distortion realm (hell)

Are you retarded? Yeah it's supposed to be the balancer between Dialga and Palkia but that doesn't mean you should deny literally everything else.

>>27996583

Fanon.

>>27996513
autism

>>27996583
It would be adam, not jesus, if anything.

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>>27996438
>>27996503

>>27996172
>And the only one calling them gods is you.
Not him but the games themselves call them gods.
Also while Groudon created the earth Zygarde is essentially the representation of the earth itself. Then there are other elemental forces on the planet other than land and sea as well as other things such as science, abstract themes and what not. There was no reason for them to jump into gods like that when they barely explored things below that level.

>>27996686
Why is there no reason? Why does it need to follow some sort of path? You want it to be predictable why?

I think that the vague unknowable nature of these things is wonderful. It would be a whole lot shittier if it was completely defined. The wonder and mystique of these creatures and as such, the world at large, is kept in tactic.

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>>27996686

Pokémon deities are here stay.

>>27996727
>You want it to be predictable why?
No one said it would be predictable anon especially since they have a plethora of themes to work with. For example gen 5 was unpredictable for a multitude of reasons from basing their legends on a more emotion based concept to the region not being based on japan.

>>27996802
It also makes the world completely stupid since they can't science for shit.

>>27996583

Arceus = Jesus.

Both Arceus and Jesus are

Physical form of the original spirit.

>>27994193
Mew didn't create everything, as Mew did not create Krabby.

>>27996727
Not him but:
>>27995529
The gen 4 legendaries made all the others look less impressive. Who cares that Celebi can travel through time, or that Kyogre has control over the oceans, when Dialga has complete control over time Arceus is literally God with power over everything?

>>27996853
I think the tapu are a bit of an exception seeing as they aren't exactly gods but have existed long enough for their acts of protection to ingrain them as deities to the locals, the same goes for Rayquaza. They're just exceptionally strong.

The gen 4 legends are literal gods however.

>>27996859
It is predictable if youre going by this "progression". You can predict that the new legendaries will be more powerful than the previous. Thats predictable. Whereas if you didnt have to follow a path of progression then you wouldnt know what the pokemon will have in store. There doesnt need to be a path. This "jump" from Gen 3 to Gen 4 wasnt a jump because there was no path to follow in the first place.

>>27995356
>they doesn't believe in White Male God, which Arceus clearly is

Mud Race, shoo

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The only thing that is confirmed is that

1. no one in the pokemon universe actually knows whats really going on

2. The stories of Arceus creating the universe etc. are "legends of the Sinnoh region" (i think this was even mentioned in a game, but im not sure)


So yeah the legends are actually very powerful but "creating the sea, creating the universe" might as well just be legends

Yes, Dialga can distort time, and yes Giratina can enter and leave the distortion world. Do their powers go beyond that? Probably not, but we dont know.

>>27996932
>It is predictable if youre going by this "progression".
The two aren't mutually exclusive anon.

>You can predict that the new legendaries will be more powerful than the previous.
Not really. I think you're mistaking what people mean by progression. They aren't referring to the power of legendary pokemon but the concept.

>>27996888
>Who cares
Why would people not care for other legendaries? How does having control over oceans and nature make you irrelevant? It doesnt. It gives more creative opportunities for pokemon and makes them have a purpose. By your logic no pokemon is relevant except arceus because who cares if you can control time if Arceus controls everything that exists ever. Diagla and Palkia only exist so pokemon like Kyogre and Celebi are able to exist. Doesnt make them irrelevant or less cared by.

>>27996684
>>27996438

BTFO

>Creates the universe with its 1000 arms
>literally has no arms to speak of
>can't learn punch moves either

>>27997012
>It gives more creative opportunities for pokemon and makes them have a purpose.
Not either of the anon you're currently arguing with but can I say that it's hilarious that you're saying this whole defending the least creative legendaries yet?

>>27996864
Good thing this is fiction and you`ll always have actual science.

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>>27994783
>>27994819

>>27997087
I know lots of fiction that makes more sense than this.

>>27996888
I don't know, who cares about power levels? Who cares about some all-powerful god pokemon that isn't relevant when I think that sunlion and moonbird are just cooler?

>>27997010
Im going by this guy >>27995838
You are talking about something totally different. This guy is saying that Generations should steadily progress in terms of power. Thats nonsense. There is no "progression" Its just what they decide shoukd be represented by a pokemon. Solgaleo was decided to represent the Sun. How does that concept progress from ylveltal having the power of death. The sun and death are two different things.
There is no progression at all.

>>27996942
>The only thing that is confirmed is that

>1. no one in the pokemon universe actually knows whats really going on
Because they arent omnipotent, just like irl.
>2. The stories of Arceus creating the universe etc. are "legends of the Sinnoh region" (i think this was even mentioned in a game, but im not sure)
>this shit again
The plot of all post gen3 games hinges on legends being true.

>So yeah the legends are actually very powerful but "creating the sea, creating the universe" might as well just be legends

>Yes, Dialga can distort time, and yes Giratina can enter and leave the distortion world. Do their powers go beyond that? Probably not, but we dont know.
Probably yes, you have no proof otherwise.

>>27997137
>The plot of all post gen3 games hinges on legends being true.
Not really. Not even gen 3 was true.

>>27997033
I assumed the 1000 arms refered to the tendrils that surrounded arceus when it excited portals in the film

>>27997067
>Subjective
But you have rights to your opinion. Idgaf

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>>27995994
>Hoopa literally summoned all legendaries they even went Primal and shit, doing so hoopa created a distortion that not even palkia dialga, hoopa-unbound, nor megafug or anyother legendaries could stop

>arceus came see shit happens and stoped the distortion because fuck it im god

arceus is atleast stronger than every legendary combined

>>27997160
>implying "uh they're gods I guess" is creative
Their designs aren't even remotely clever either

>>27997110
Yes, you`re a western adult and care about that. Stick to those if ycu cant handle pokemon.

>>27997158
Oh, you didnt play them then.

>>27997161
>Calling movies canon

>>27997190
How so? Compared to whom? The digimon of the next generation or the animals of the last generation?

>>27997218
Sorry but Groudon and kyogre didn't expand the sea or land even when they were given their primal forms

>This guy sperging out about the use of pronouns and replying to posts with just "fanon"

I know the word autism gets thrown around a lot on this website but holy moly.

Or maybe English isn't his first language.

>>27997196
Apparently, no one else here can "handle pokemon" either because they're trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense.

>>27997237
So what, is "d-digimon" your be all end all argument?

>>27997124
>>27997012
>I don't know, who cares about power levels?
Think of it like this: as a kid, I watched the first pokemon movie and was impressed with Mewtwo being a badass, creating storms, using mind control and such, and it worked because he was in a world where his movie feats looked impressive by comparison. That movie would have lost any sort of impact if I knew back then that he lives in the same world as pokemon who can casually create and destroy universes.

>>27997271
When has a question ever been the end of an argument?

>>27997274
But that's your point of view. I'm saying is they shouldn't be disliked for being what they are. Its 2016 havent we been passed this?

>>27997288
You tell me, you're the one trying it.
In any case the big offender about the gen 4 legends is the lack of cohesion. They have anything tying them together at all beyond the fact that they're gods. That and their designs are all over the place like they just threw parts on the wall and saw what stuck. A lot like Digimon funnily enough.

>>27997342
>I'm saying is they shouldn't be disliked for being what they are.
I don't dislike them. I like their designs and Giratina is one of my favorite legendaries. I just think that things could have been better if, for example, Dialga was just a pokemon like Celebi who can manipulate time. Making them those uber powerful forces of creation kinda makes the other legendaries look worse by comparison.

>>27997342
>Its 2016 havent we been passed this?
Of course not. You can't just pass gods.
Also it absolutely squandered the lore and story that came from a God plot. Compare something like FF6 or Bravely Default to the Sinnoh games and you'll see what I mean.

My biggest gripes with most legendary pokemon is how 'in your face' they are for plot reasons.

I'd have probably enjoyed them more if you actually had to search for some of them and confirm their existence yourself instead of looking for the highest density of grunts in a given area.

Also the term "mythical pokemon" is weird as fuck.
>Mythical Pokémon (Japanese: 幻のポケモン Illusory Pokémon) are a group of Pokémon seen so rarely in the Pokémon world that some question their very existence.
Frankly this definiton would suit pokemon like Palkia/Dialga or even fucking Kyogre/Groudon way more than say Darkrai or Victini or Manaphy.

What is the point of creatures with ultimate power in a world where none of the creatures are supposed to be more powerful than the others?

>>27997344
Yes so why are you singling them out to other digimon-like legendaries? You literally just said their designs werent clever yet others like SM and XY have the same properties? And they didnt just "throw parts together." You can say that for anything. Dialga looks like a steel type, funny thing is its ACTUALLY a steel type. How are their designs bad if they look like what their meant to be? The Diamond that is put into Dialgas chest and the Pearls in Palkias arms are pretty cool t b h. And when they glow when they use their powers is also a unique design. Seriously i dont see the hate with them.

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>>27997237
the only piece of evidence of arceus doing shit is the anime manga and games, in all of them they talk about arceus as the creator, the embodimient of the original spirit

>in the manga and games it creates legendaries who control space, time and antimater in front of the protagonist, in the anime arceus himself states that everything is his creation and call pokemon magical beast (their original therm),

>proves his power defeating dialga palkia and giratina without 4 plates and desintegrated a distortion who not even the god of space could stop

I-its not canon guys

fuck off kill yourself and stream it fucking faggot

>>27997274
While that argument is structurally sound, but I'm not sure how much of it applies in practice here since the full extent of most deity-like Pokemon are never really seen or understood in full outside of in-game word-of-mouth.

It's the equivalent of hyping up a particular being to exist as the most powerful in the universe, but never actually seeing them in action or worse, they get taken out like a bitch before they can even do anything.
In that sense, Mewtwo's feats could still be seen as contextually impressive even if Arceus preceded the debut assuming you never actually bore witnessed to Arceus performing any of the feats it can supposedly do.

>>27996927

Nah. It's a deity.

>>27997402
I think the mythical grouping is fine. The idea is that others are known through well-known legend and the effects of their existence can at least be seen and measured. Mythical are forgotten and never have much impact on the world around them.

>>27997430
Thats my point. Its not canon. There is no reason to show that Palkia couldnt stop that Distortion. Palkia has FULL control over space and Dialga has FULL control over time. Therefore they are able to stop the Space-time warp. But the writers had to get Arceus in there someway so they said fuck you to them and negated their powers for the movie. Happens all the time have you not seen Mewtwo vs Genesect?

>>27997497
What about Mewtwo vs Genesect?

>>27997421
>Dialga looks like a steel type, funny thing is its ACTUALLY a steel type.
You do realise that's the problem right?

Okay compare say Solgaleo to Dialog. Solgaleo is a steel type but it's not just a lion with metal slapped on it, it's a mechanical lion with a body similar to a space suit.

Dialga on the other hand is just steel because it has metal on it. It doesn't even tie into it's theme because time isn't a stable concept to someone that can control it and see. In fact a lot of gen 4 mon had that problem in that they "just were" that type.

See what I mean?

>>27997521
If you compare Mewtwo from Mewtwo Strikes back to this new mewtwo there a majodifferences in power. If you compare Dialga and Palkia from Rise of Darkrai to Hoopa you can see major differences in power. Palkia transported a whole damn town to another dimension. And when the town disintegrated it looked very similar to the tower disintegrating in Hoopa.

>>27997249
Not the anon you're talking about but you sound like you didn't play the game. They emphasize the world is fucked if they stay awake.

>>27997540
Really? Because all i see in this board are people bitching about how a x-like pokemon isnt an x type. Have you seen the shit that the new eggsecutor got for being a dragon type?

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>>27997430

Arceus is a neutral creator deity.

While, Dawn and lucas were batting against team galactic.

Arceus was in the hall of origin watching or Sleeping.

>>27997601
>They emphasize the world is fucked if they stay awake.
It also said they had more power than they really did, what's your point exactly? Anyway they can't create land or seas anon.

>>27997623
You're really going to judge the entire board on dedicated shitposters?

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>>27997497
but thats the point of them there, hoopa has to be restrained by arceus because he can fuck shit up with the portals he make, its because the missuse of his power he created the distorion, if palkia couldnt stop it it was because the distortion was above his control, that only mean only an omnipotent being could stop it

it works like this

in control of:

Space Arceus>Palkia>Hoopa-umbound

Time Arceus>Dialga>Celebi

even the time distortion dialga created for send people to the past was fixed by arceus in movie 12, but that doesnt mean celebi cant send people to the past since he did it in HGSS

arceus is just above the control of them they can create and manipulate time/space but never in the way arceus can

when they can explode a galaxy on will of anger alone then we can talk

>>27997623
>Because all i see in this board are people bitching about how a x-like pokemon isnt an x type.
Not him but if you hadn't noticed most of that was directed towards gen 4 pokemon like Lucario.

>>27997475
I just call them event pokemon since that's what they are.
I mean generally there's a distinction between legends and myths, and frankly some of those mythical pokemon are more the stuff of old folktales than what would generally be deemed a legend or a myth.

Then again my whole fuss of words is just pure autism.

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>>27995024
>"The Truth"

My nickname. Can't wait to sing for y'all again in the "afterlife".

Sorry, newsouls, you won't understand this. People = ? (Don't worry he didn't figure it out, he had to beg for his life then I told him)

t. poster who in a way is talking about Pokemon

>>27997265
>Apparently, no one else here can "handle pokemon" either
Yes.

>>27997249
>Sorry but Groudon and kyogre didn't expand the sea or land even when they were given their primal forms
Yes, you stop Team Magma and Aqua before they accomplish their goals.

So yeah, play the games.

>>27997251
At least its the "good" kind of autism where he's trying to make people speak correctly.
/vp/ has lots of the "bad" kind of autism where people try to pass their own headcanon as fact.
I'll take the former every day.

>>27997414
i don't know, but that's not pokémon's premise.

>>27997915
>Yes, you stop Team Magma and Aqua before they accomplish their goals.
>So yeah, play the games.
I guarantee that I know the games more than you do considering you think the legends were true despite seeing otherwise.

>>27998034
So you don't stop team magma and team aqua.
Hoenn's fucked I guess.

>>27998091
Yell me where their land raising or sea creating powers are ever shown anon.
Also technically they stopped themselves when they lost control.

>>27996942
>>27997137
Play Gen 4 you fucking retards. Why do you guys even feel the need to comment in these threads when you have obviously never played the games with the relevant lore?

>>27997665
Dialga and Palkia can literally destroy the universe in the games, that includes all galaxies anon.

>>27998143
>Yell me where their land raising or sea creating powers are ever shown anon.
Never since the player stops that.

>>27998164
>Why do you guys even feel the need to comment in these threads when you have obviously never played the games with the relevant lore?
I'm the second guy you replied to, how am I wrong?

>>27998176
There's more than enough time for them to show such a power not to mention even their natural drought and rain ability didn't even stretch across the region.

>>27998198
I just kinda threw your comment together with the anon you replied to, sorry.

>>27998227
>There's more than enough time for them to show such a power
Does the legend establish a set amount of time?
Does that amount time be established in-universe to be shorter than the one it takes to go and beat them?(keep in mind whatever shit you do as a player between their awakening and you stopping them doesnt matter).

>>27998306
>Does the legend establish a set amount of time?
Nope. Which is one of the main reasons why they aren't as strong as the legends state. Any pokemon with the drought and drizzle ability could do the exact same thing if they had the longevity of Groudon and Kyogre.

>gameplay and story segregation: the thread

>>27998378
>Nope.
So you have no point.

>Which is one of the main reasons why they aren't as strong as the legends state.
>They can't do shit quickly
>That means they can't do shit!

>Any pokemon with the drought and drizzle ability could do the exact same thing if they had the longevity of Groudon and Kyogre.
gameplay and lore differences. The very fact you invoked that shows you have no clue what you're talking about.

>>27998397
>It's a /vp/, despite being a pokemon community has yet to figure out what a video game is thread

>>27998401
>So you have no point.
Sorry there anon but the fact that there's no stated time only goes against your point as it trivialised their abilities if it occurs over an incredibly long time. As I said before any pokemon could do that with their longevity.

>>27994577
You are incorrect Steven mentions a black Charizard in ORAS

>>27998468
Just a reference

The anime timeline doesn't match the games for that to be possible.

BEHOLD! A list of ALL the relevant high tier feats in the games.

1. Rayquaza destroys a life wiping meteor in ORAS. The same thing (they literally ripped off the story of a spin off) happens in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.

2. Kyurem freezes a city.

3. Xerneas and Yveltal power the ultimate weapon. Xerneas' energy can revive the dead and grant eternal life, Yveltal can eat souls and life force on a country wide scale.

4. Dialga and/or Palkia CAN DESTROY AND RECREATE THE UNIVERSE. Their fights can erase things from existence in the anime. Dialga can stop Celebi from time traveling, bring back Pokemon erased by paradoxes and travel backwards through time in the Mystery Dungeon series.

5. Arceus can create a member of the creation trio.

That's it. Everything else is speculation and fanon.

>>27998503
You're forgetting the times Groudon and Kyogre nearly destroyed the world.

>>27999042
They wouldn't have destroyed the world, but they would have made it uninhabitable for humans.

>>27993661
Sinnohfags think so. The rest of the world has its own theories.

Keep in mind that Japan is not a traditionally monotheistic region. Arceus is not the Abrahamic God of the Pokemon world. Even if it is truly what sparked the creation of the universe, nothing says it's exceptionally more powerful than other godlike creatures. Journey to the West is a good example of an oriental myth depicting entities who became more powerful than their creators.

>>27998442
>Sorry there anon but the fact that there's no stated time only goes against your point
My point doesnt hinge on there being a stated time.

>as it trivialised their abilities
Only according to your headcanon

>if it occurs over an incredibly long time
Define "incredibly long" and how it's shown in-universe to be so.

>As I said before any pokemon could do that with their longevity.
Any pokemon with Drought and Drizzle can create sunlight and rain, yeah. Which is not the only thing Kyogre and Groudon are supposed to do, not to mention you conveniently ignored, again, the difference between lore and gameplay.

>>27998468
>http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_cross-canon_references

>>27998503
> Rayquaza destroys a life wiping meteor in ORAS.
According to most of /vp/ it didn't. But yeah, if you play the games, that's what it does.

>Their fights can erase things from existence in the anime.
>the anime
not relevant

>Everything else is speculation and fanon.
the plot of the games post gen 3 hinges on legends being true(most of your post proves this), so they are until proven otherwise.

>>27999323
>The rest of the world has its own theories.
such as?

>>27999383
The Big Bang, for starters.

>>27999407
Is it talked in-universe?
Genuinely asking.

Speaking of Arceus anybody got an NA code? I live in the middle of nowhere.

For fucks sake why are you retards still arguing about this? You idiots sound worse than 9/11 conspirators. Arceus is the most powerful pokemon. So what? Does that make you butthurt somehow? Who cares about other religions? Whho cares about other regions? Who cares about anime vs games? Can you just shut the fuck up and accept Arceus as the most powerful pokemon. It affects nothing in the pokemon. Just gives reason to how it started. How is this contorversial? How does a 260 post thread start from a person asking a simple question?

>>27993661
His creation was the ultimate shark jumping point of the series, I don't know what the fuck they were thinking

>>27999608
>Who cares about anime vs games?
Proper information should be used on lore discussion.

>How is this contorversial?
I agree it shouldn't be. It happens because people approach a japanese kids IP with an adult western mindset.

>>27999614
>>/9fag/

>>27999608
If you don't like this discussion, why come to this thread to argue that no one should discuss it? You act as if the mere existence of this thread makes you angry, as if people shouldn't discuss things you don't like.

>>27997958
Oh really?

It's all over, guys, I have Mega Rayquaza, you can all go home now.

>>27999760
Because its pointless. Its like debating about why a Magikarp swims in water. Because thats the kind of pokemon Magikarp is. Why is Arceus the most powerful? Because thats the kind of pokemon arceus is. What difference does it make? Who cares? Youre just wasting your lives.

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>>27994921
There's a book in the Platinum Galactic HQ that gives reason for using the Red Chain.
A Pokéball essentially tames a Pokémon through trust and limits its abilities to be manageable under a single trainer's care.
The Red Chain binds the spirit and forces the Pokémon to use its full potential at the will of a master.
In the anime, the Red Chain resembles Arceus' Ring.

>>27999917
>What difference does it make? Who cares? Youre just wasting your lives.
This is a board dedicated to discussion about pokemon. You could say that about anything and everything discussed here. Also,
>>27999608
>Who cares about other religions? Whho cares about other regions? Who cares about anime vs games?
Apparently a lot of people, since this thread has hundreds of posts.

The question is why do you want to force your views on others.

>>27999794
Yes, Mega Rayquaza is suppose to be powerful.

And that proves you're not a retard, how?

>>27999984
People have already answered this, thank you.
Although the anime doesnt mean shit.

>>28000288
There's no purpose to train anymore, I'm already the most powerful there is.

>>28000342
>There's no purpose to train anymore
You mean lore-wise, gameplay-wise or competitive-wise?
I'm giving you a chance here.

>>27995292
So he's basically the lorax?

>>27994955
If I have a kid and he creates a cure for cancer, that means I cured cancer?

>>28000416
I used to think about Zygarde as something like the weapons in Final Fantasy 7. But now it's gonna be the Lorax to me.

>>28000405
Everything. Tournaments don't count because the rules were altered, therefore it no longer applies as the same thing.

>>28000458
No.

Which is consistent with christian creationism.

Mega Arceus when?

>>28000416
More like captain planet

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>>27993661

>>28000511
>lore-wise
Brendan/May caught Mega-Rayquaza because he/she is strong.

>gameplay-wise
Yes, you can use Mega Rayquaza to win more easily. After catching him of course.

>competitive-wise
You said it doesnt count.

Now, how does any of that make no sense?

>>28000598
Oh my god, you actually think you're God?

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>>28000626

>>27993661
Ayyyy's from another universe dropped the seed containing Arceus into an empty void and him just being there was enough to reverse entropy and cause a new big bang. After that he created physics physics because magic I don't have to explain shit and after creating the space/time trio he went to his own realm and went dormant. You know that llama creature that you catch in-game? That's not the true Arceus and it's one of "1,000 arms" placed around the universe that serve as physical avatars. The true Arceus is something incomprehensible to mortals and so ends this stupid headcanon.

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>>27999323