Kanto and Johto Ash are by far the only times where the character

Agreed.

>>27945120
Glad you agree anon.

>>27945050
I miss his sarcasm.

Ashnime is a stupid term.

This is actually true. I cringe whenever someone say XY is the best season and mock the past seasons.

>>27945050
The anime was always trash. Kanto, Johto, Unova, Kalos. Who cares. It's all the same shit. Some of it might be less shit, some of it might be more but none of it is worth watching.

>>27945050
Alain MC when

>>27945617
Just because it's shit doesn't mean it can't be discussed.

>>27945639
The mega Evo specials?
>>27945050
He also had some bonding with goodra and greninja. XY has a weird personality that I can't really explain but you can see it in him during early xy and when he battles the Mohawk guy at the league. I'm honestly puzzled on why he took his lost at the league so casually considering how he was at the end of BW

>>27945050
the anime was fine until his charmander evolved

it went from
>form strong bonds and capture pokemon to become a master
to
>lol, charizard so random look at him go!! so cool

This is honestly what baffles me about Ash fanboys, they literally look to his boring, personality-less XY version as the perfect example of Ash as a character, claiming that he's reached some new point in character development. How has he supposedly developed as a character? Just being smarter in battle. Battles, battles, battles, they're an undeniably important part of this franchise, but if that's all your character is good at then it becomes really boring very fast. The XYfags only care about battles, many will tell you the animation is the only reason they like XY, not that I can blame them.
But even Alain has something other than battle prowess.

Nah Sinnoh was great too

Ash's character development towards Paul especially was great

Ash vs Paul in general was 9/10

>>27946162
Ash didnt develop, Paul did.

>>27945050
>not Hoenn Ash which combines the best of Kanto/Johto and REKTing Legendaries.

>>27946228
This. BF saga was GOAT.

>>27946122
Well, if Ash had actually won you could say how XY was focused on developing his battle prowess so that he could finally win. as it stands, it's been a completely devoid of meaning season.

XY is the best because the only reason to watch the show is the battles, which XY has the best of. The plot, character development, basically anything that isn't the music and fights is shit.

>>27946228
That was good and I think BF Ash is his very peak as a battler, but Hoenn started the amnesia where each series became a soft, unsatisfying reboot that didn't bother resolving previous plots before resetting the characters. Plus some series staples like Snubull, Jigglypuff, Team Rocket's pokemon team and motto, Ash's connection to Ho-Oh... went away.

>>27946122
>"b-b-b-but Ash is the cool older brother of the group!! He's not bland this..this is his character now!!"

>>27945050
Kanto Ash was the only entertaining Ash. As he got more competent he lost that humorous shitter aspect and became just a hollow, boring caricature. Seeing Ash get BTFO'd by everyone in Kanto for being a niwaka was great.

>>27946430
But XY doesn't even have the best battles, Ash vs Paul is still GOAT

XY would have been 100% justified if Ash won. Because it felt that the lesson he learned from Unova's loss was to not fuck around anymore... which he certainly did not during XY.

>>27946477
Nah, Ash vs Shota is the best in the series. Ash vs Alain would be better, but Goodra jobbing and Greninja jobbing kills it.

>>27946519
Ash didn't deserve to win.

Man why did Ash stop doing that cap backwards thing. It was so iconic.

>>27945050

I agree with you completely about Ash, but not about Johto. Johto is one of the worst arcs overall for how boring it was. And Ash companions being shit we had already seen.

But as far as Ash goes, I believe his climax was the DP league, he should have won then and then reboot the series for BW.

>>27946455
Jigglypuff's joke lives on. It's currently a Minncino that does it.

>>27946680
Tobias PTSD

>>27946831
But during BW is where nostalgiafaggotry was at its highest, he was turning his hat at the start

>>27945050
Absolutely correct, anon. Down to the outfit. Didn't know anyone so based posted on /vp/

Hoenn Ash was great. He taught May some pointers and you saw some significant growth with him. He was also slowly growing more with Sinnoh. That reset was fucking stupid and I'm not surprised that idiocy resurfaced with X/Y.

>>27945050
Totally agreed.

>>27945050
Imo DP was his best outfit, but as far as personality goes nothing will ever beat OG Ash.

>>27947019
This but people would call you a "nostalgiafag" because you don't like cardboard Ash.

>>27946951
Early stages of denial before the Dark Void settled in

I still lose sleep trying to understand how there are adult people who unironically watch this rehashed shit anime every season.
It's always the same trash advertising for little kids.

>>27945050
Found a really good post summarizing this

>Cameron was bullshit, but it was like the punchline to the shit arc that was BW.

>Tobias was bullshit, but at least it made Ash look strong as fuck by taking down two legendaries with his B-Team and really hammered home how far he came.

>Alan just makes it feel like all of Ash's efforts were fucking pointless since even Greninja's perfect synchro form did worse vs Alan than his imperfect form did fifteen eps earlier, and most of ash's team did jack shit during the finals, thereby undermining their importance up to that point.

>To top it all off, Alan was setup as his rival, meaning Ash not only failed in his attempt to win the league, he failed at his most immediate challenge of beating his rival for a third fucking time even after training for that purpose.

This is like if Blaze Infernape of DP lost to Paul's Electriver and Ash just lost

>>27947122
i don't, in fact I've just been coming to /vp/ these last few days to mock butthurt anons. Haven't really visited this board much since the HOENN CONFIRMED days.

>>27947122
>caring about what others do
>on a board where we post not cropped porn of fictional animals and girls to a child's video game

It's a fucking anime, on a website for anime, just fuck off

Why are ashnimefags so salty all the time? Not even McDonalds fries are this salty.

>>27945050
Ash still had some cockiness in Hoenn. At some point it got so bad that he needed to be REKT by Drake to learn some humility.

Since then he's been basically the same. Even the Ash-Greninja arc that XYfags considered the pinnacle of Ash's character growth felt forced as fuck and had a godawful resolution.

But it sucked from Orange Islands to early Johto because Shudo filled it with filler garbage. People were so pissed off that Shudo quit and Tomioka had to wrap up the rest of Johto.

>>27947181
it's a cartoon. No character development, no plot, no timeline, no consequences. Not an anime.

>>27947253
How many episodes did you watch?

>>27947253
At this point caring about what The Pokemon Company will do with Ash is like caring about what Disney will do with Mickey Mouse. He's a mascot, not a character.

>>27945050
>johto Ash
>interesting
Johto is by far the worst arc in the anime. There was nothing of interest and when something that could lead to something came up it would just be forgotten. Not even Best Wishes was that bad.

>>27947253
Ok..... People can have different tastes anon.

Like I like HGSS, and you may not

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>>27945050
I can still watch the entire first season and be entertained because the characters were actually interesting back then, and 1st season Ash was fucking GOAT. Also the show was funny and Ash didn't have the shitty english VA he has now. 1st season Brock and James are also GOATs.

The anime as a whole hasn't been very entertaining to watch for some time.

It's not just Ash, it's everybody. All the good guys are painfully good, and friendly, and helpful, with like, no grey area. No sass. In the old days, everyone had an atittude, and it was actually funny to listen to the banter. Now it's all tea parties and contests, and nobody is every mean, unless they're a big poopy evil person.

There's less interesting episodes in between major battles too.

I don't even think the new animation in battles is all that interesting either, everything is too shaky and fast, too many dumb looking effects and perspective shifts. I can hardly tell what's supposed to be happening most of the time.

>>27947299
Johto had a lot of filler garbage, but I feel that it did enough with the gym battles, the encounters with legendaries and the silver conference that had they decided not to send Ash to Hoenn, the Silver Conference would have been the best point to have Ash win and become a pokemon master.

>>27947343
>All the good guys are painfully good, and friendly, and helpful, with like, no grey area. No sass. In the old days, everyone had an atittude
They tried to do that with Iris.

Everyone hated her.

Do people really only value this anime for the possibility of the main character winning the league? The actual meat of the series is what happens in between battles, isn't it?

>>27947219
McDonalds has been pretty stingy with their salt lately desu.

>>27947384
Except jackshit happens inbetween, you could skip most of XY and still know what is happening.

>>27947360
>the Silver Conference would have been the best point to have Ash win and become a pokemon master.
The best point was Kanto. They should have moved on to a new protagonist the moment a new region cropped up.

>>27947339
I loved how Ash would insult Misty out of the blue for no reason. He was such a snotty rude brat, I miss that Ash.

>>27947384
I don't value the anime and don't watch it, but I remember being hopeful for Ash winning the league in Johto and Hoenn, after that it became obvious where the series was headed. I feel a mix of pity and scorn for the people still watching, still hoping for anything resembling a coherent plot and characterization.

>>27947466
I dunno, I felt like the indigo league was set up from the very beginning for Ash to lsoe, I don't think it would have felt right for Ash to win that one. He should have learnt his lesson and won in Johto. Plus in Johto he had his leveled up team from Kanto in addition to his new captures, he hadn't gone full reset retard mode, it would have made the most sense.

>>27945536
This.

>>27945536
That was Veronica Taylor. 4Kids dub in general was a lot more fun and snarky. TPCi dub doesn't have the same heart in it.

>>27947371

They fucked up by making her the only character full of sass in a sea of goody two shoes, it just made her seem like a bully instead of someone who riffed off her friends.

Ash and Misty were always firing back at each other, so the chemistry was good. By the time Iris came around, Ash went full on Mickey Mouse Syndrome, so it just felt like she was chewing out some helplessly nice guy.

You've got to spread that sass or it's weird and out of place...

plus it doesn't help that this was BW, where they dialed up the annoying repetitive gags and catch phrases to 11. Nobody wanted to hear "you're such a kid" again after a handful of episodes.

>>27947514
>he hadn't gone full reset retard mode
You did see what he was rocking during the league right?
He was less competent than he was in the Indigo league by a large margin.

>>27947371
misty did the same shit but it worked because ash could actually bite back.

they need characters with personalities where banter actually works. i don't know why the show devolved into

>>27947343
>All the good guys are painfully good, and friendly, and helpful, with like, no grey area

but it fucking ruined it

>>27947564

I feel like even some of the japanese voices have gotten worse over time.

Pikachu used to sound really cute, but now it sounds like the VA is squealing too much, trying to force too much excitement into every sound Pikachu makes.

>>27947579
And he was still fucking learn, not someone who just took down 2 legendaries with his B team

That was like an insult onto how good he used to be, he was literal Novice trainer

>>27947571
And yet he managed to beat Gary.

>>27947629
*with misty

>>27947423

That just sort of confirms that XY was pretty garbage, and people only watch for the battles. Or shipping faggotry.

>>27947664
Meaning Gary, despite his boasting, was a worse trainer than he was at the time.

>>27947715
But Gary won 10 badges in Kanto anon

>>27947579
Ash and Misty were such a good combo. And I don't mean romantically, calm your shit Amourshippers, I mean as a comedic duo. They just bullied the living shit out of each other with GOAT bantz.

>>27947664
Charizard beat Gary lmao

Memefrog probably watched the Silver Conference and wanted to replicate Charizard's run as closely as possible right down to the Blaziken match

>>27947739
But there are only 8 sanctioned gyms per region. And we know Gary lost at the viridian gym. Fucking counterfeit badges and unofficial gyms man.

>>27947739
And he only needed 8.
Just goes to show how smart he is.

>>27947835
>But there are only 8 sanctioned gyms per region
That's wrong. There are several official gyms that are not shown in the games. Pretty much every one of Ash's rivals had official badges that we hadn't seen anywhere else.

You're probably thinking of that gym with the Sandshrew guy, as well as the Electabuzz/Scyther gyms. They were indeed not official, but that doesn't mean much since at some point in DP even Team Rocket had their own unofficial gym.

>>27947976
I think fom DP onwards the anime switched to having 8 gyms per region like in the games, but in previous series there were indeed several references to gyms not seen in the games.

>>27947835

>Gary rode around in a convertible for a lot of his journey
>obviously has lots of money

This kid probably bought most of his success. It took the loss at Viridian to open his eyes.

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>>27948014
Nigga DP was the one who made the existence of the weird anime-only official badges an undisputed fact.

>>27948019
To be fair the loss at Viridan isn't something anyone should have expected. He went up against OG Mewtwo, which is by far the most godlike pokemon shown in the anime, even Arceus wasn't as OP in his movie.

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>>27948014
>>27948049
Same for BW and XY.

>>27948049
>>27948072

I'm sure a similar case with unofficial badges was shown all the way back in Indigo league, but you're right, DP didn't change the unoffciial gym thing.

>>27948084
I think back then they just didn't put that much effort when designing the anime-only badges so they were bland as fuck.Now they look even cooler than some badges from the games.

>>27948231
I don't know, nothing the anime has produced has surpassed Wulfric's badge.

>>27946577
He totally deserved.
Not an Ashfag, but this guy has been training for almost 20 years.
>but he learned to face his loss
he learned that in the first or second time.
If anything, kids will learn this lesson: Don't follow your dreams, they will not become true.
Also, that Alain guy is just an edge character. He also never had a team, he only cared about his charizard. It was later that they introduced his metang and the rest were introduced during their battle.

>>27948566
> training for almost 20 years.

its only been like a year in universe though

>>27948855
There was an episode a long time ago that celebrated a year of Ash and Pikachu being together, and then BW 3-4 regions later stated he was 10 again

There is no continuity of time

>>27948855
>a year
nah, he completed a year somewhere around Johto

>>27948855
It's been 0 time since no one ever ages. time don't real in pokemon anime.

>>27947275
I really wish there were a shorter, one or two season anime related to Pokemon. More mature (not edgy, there's a difference), and characters with, well, personality. Geared toward older fans, like Origins, only without the shit like Charizard pandering and recaps that Origins resorted to. Because it's clear that there are older fans of Pokemon, and the current anime doesn't exactly have everything to be desired from a such a long-lasting and popular franchise.

>>27945050
>kanto and johto
stopped reading there

i bet you haven't even seen the johto league champions or master quest seasons

>>27949018

You're a faggot, but also correct.

OP, Indigo League was fun, and Orange Islands was okay, if not the starting point for the series rise in blandness, but Johto was shit tier, quite possibly the worst season. I'm kind of ashamed that Brock and Misty were even a part of it.

>>27949018
Master Quest was pretty fun desu

Johto Journeys was boring and JLC was probably the worst season of the anime, maybe even worse than BWS2.

Early Johto Ash > every other Ash

Fucker thought he was invincible with his Charizard, challenging weak as trainers with it. That was the Ash I liked best

>>27949137
Best part is that Charizard went along with it and enjoyed it, like against the Chikorita

You cant imagine boring Ash and no personality memefrog doing this nowadays.

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>>27949137
>>27949383
Agreed.
it was great

>>27945050
Agreed.

Seems that, after Gen2, the Animate series became nothing more than a marketing ploy to show case the new pokemon and regions of each Generations of games.

If ShoPro were to be brutally transparent, Ash's goal isn't to win a Pokemon League; but to create an army of Pokemon from every region that PokeCo came up with for their mainline games, and then use them in the rematch with the Indigo League for the franchise send off.
It what I came up with in: >>27949165

Not only will it shift the focus from his goal to the relationship between the Pokemon that he captured is said region (since, afterall, the Monsters themselves are the real star of the show), but also make his lost at said Regional League much more believable; if he's really serious, then he should use every monsters he obtain so far and swept the competition. This also prevent future writers of future installments of the Pokemon Animated series from pulling the same stunt from the 4th generation; where they introduced post league elements, but forced to rob Ash of his trophy when Black/White are announced.

But the most important thing that Ash is now a Stand in for not only the veteran players, but also to the new comers to the franchise; so to reinstate Ash's goal to be the best Pokemon Trainer in the world to fit with the longevity and unpredictability the franchise would be a great and honest way to deal with the future hype and disappointment of every regional league that he participated in.

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>>27950044
The fuck is "ShoPro"

>>27950207
The corporation that owned/produced the Anime, at least that what I been told.

>>27946101
yup. That was the turning point in that single episode. From there on out there were maybe a handful of good episodes. Prior to that every other episode was great.

>>27947473
That and Brock and Misty would regularly engage in pokemon battles. Hardly happened after halfway through the first season.

>>27947473
>>27947566
>tfw Hoenn Ash and Misty just acted like nice pieces of cardboard
Hoping for good banter dynamics with Mallow

>>27950474
How the fuck can you people still hope for anything with this piece of shit purgatory series.

>>27947790
Blaziken actually survived Seismic Toss with a really smart manuver though, Alain's Charizard literally just tanked everything without a problem. It barely looked battered after that giant Water Shuriken, what bullshit.

>>27946521
I don't think him losing affects the quality of it, but i agree it could be tweaked. Talonflame should not have D-KO'd, but gone on among things.

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>>27950474

Don't kid yourself anon.

The anime is never going to be good again. It's just going to keep sucking and it won't be good again. Ash is going to be really nice and energetic, but ultimately helpful. There will be at minimum 3 pokemon out of their pokeball at all times, and they all have this same recurring gag that's going to happen in nearly every episode. Ash's companions will also have a running gag that won't ever change. It's never going to be good again. Everything is going to suck. It's never going to get better. We'll just get more filler shit where nothing exciting or off the beaten path happens. We'll get an episode where we learn how important berries are or some shit. Maybe a Pikachu won't dress the way a normal Pikachu dresses. They're going spend a whole half hour remarking on how different alola pokemon are from the pokemon back home and it's going to be so boring. It's never going to get better because it's never going to be unsuccessful. Pokemon is just going to rake in the autism money and the kawaii culture money, and it has no incentive to be better than what it is. It's not ever going to get any better. It's going to suck forever.

>>27950625
>>27950512
1 to 1 remake of OS with XY tier animations when

People say like he learned nothing.
He made zero mistakes in his battle against Alan, the dudes zard was just stronger in the ne that is all, ash didnt make any mistakes and he gave it his best.
He still should have won but i dont feel so mad right now.
Pilachu was the real mvp

>>27950876
>not using Water Shuriken on Charizard while rain was up
>despite just having done so to finish off Bisharp

>>27950671

I really don't want that.

>>27950625
rude

>>27950876
>He made zero mistakes in his battle against Alan
lol

>>27950876
His mistake was thinking he knew everything about synchro and that he could control it 100%, thus relying on it too much

>>27949496
This ironically is what it's like in Kanto after Johto in GSC

I honestly can't remember that much about Ash from all those years back, so I went to watch some important matches(yes, the dub) from the older series, like Ash VS Ritchie. He felt like an entirely different person, he was mischevious(remarks that he's not "stealing" TR's bicycle, he's borrowing it), argumentative(with Misty), genuinely was upset about losing, while also keeping the traits you see from him in XY(outside of the smarts).

Why did they change this into who he is now? Did TPCi want to "sterilize" the anime and Ash by extension? Is personality not allowed in kid's shows according to TPCi?

>>27953334
>that time during his first ever trainer battle when he going to fist fight Team Rocket
The new series will never ever get gold like this.

Also, the dub was great during moments like this

I only watch the anime to see animated pokemons. I knew Ash wouldn't win the league. Totally neutral to that.

>>27946455
Ho-oh still popped up from time to time until pretty recently. And Snubull was written out of the show less than a year after it was introduced.

>>27953782
>until pretty recently
The last time it appeared was in fucking 2005.