Haven't been on /vp/ in a few years, since BW2. Came back

Smogonfags were driven out of this board when people got enough of their cancer and elitist attitude

>>27615769
tiers r4 queers

>>27615790
Or they got tired of all of the casuals on /vp/ and left. I'm not a smogonfag but you can't pretend that both sides aren't cancer.

>>27615833
Same thing, Im just glad they fucked off.
If you want to play their retarded version of the game that is about banning everything they dont like and being smug about it they have their own site with their own forum dont bring that shit here.

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>>27615790
I can only guess that the hostile attitude from XY newbies drove most of the competitive community away.

This sucks. I really would like to see some healthy competitive discussion going around, but these days it's all "Why did Smogon ban this! I'm too lazy to read the suspect thread!" and "Haha I beat a 1100 guy with my karenfag team, Smogonfags don't know shit!"

Everyone used to be really helpful but I guess that's what happens when there's a rush of newbies to any typically closed-off community.

>>27615830
Don't be like that, you know it's better to play around 30 Pokemon than to play around 10.

>>27615769
Everyone got tired of pokemon overall with ORAS. SM hopefully will make things fresh again with all the new stuff for competitive

Smogon is pure cancer
Why havent they banned critical hits?
Or any move that doesn have 100 accuracy?

It literally makes no sense and they take the stupid useless shit they do too seriously and act all elitist about it
Fuck them

>>27615872
As opposed to what? Playing the version where every team is a mix match of 10 Mons?

>>27615769
>Now it seems like everyone here makes the same misconceptions about Smogon and competitive as a whole that casual GameFAQs/redditors make
Maybe because those types are what make up the board now?
Redditor is not a bogeyman.

>>27615769
Smogon jumped the shark, so most people here stopped giving a fuck about their fan-made metagame.

Personally I dont see the issue, if you want to play by their rules head to showdown.
There is nothing to discuss here.

>>27615769
Then make the general, it would be great for S&M metagame speculations. And would like to discuss the current one with other /vp/oreons desu

>>27615909
>>27615950
>>27615872
This discussion has been had hundreds of times before, I'm sure. But I'll do this, just because.

What bans have Smogon made that have been unjustified? Every single ban is voted on by the community; every single ban has an entire discussion thread dedicated to it. Instead of automatically assuming that a ban is unjust and shitposting about it disparaging Smogon all the while... why not actually give it some thought and read the thread for it first?

I think newbies are really opposed to the idea of an "institution" in Pokemon battling. Smogon is anything but that. It's completely community-oriented. NO ACTIONS take place without it being voted upon, save for completely justified quickbans such as Mega Salamence and the Mega Gengar ban that was immediately reversed.

Aegislash was tested TWICE due to the controversy and banned both times, Greninja has been discussed to death. What is the problem?

>>27615955
But there used to be discussion here, and many people didn't really like the mods at Smogon. They liked the format, but preferred anonymity. That has completely changed. Nobody hated Smogon before, people knew that you could play other formats if you wanted and you weren't being forced to play anything.

Seriously, just because some random twelve-year-old got mad at you for using Greninja or Double Team doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the community or the format.

>>27615955
Exactly. Nothing of value was lost in /vp/. Smogon has its own forum.

>>27615911
Not everyone who plays actual Pokemon games plays by VGC 2016 rules. There are nigh infinite ways to build a team, different battle styles to explore, rated and unrated, strangers, friends, special battle tournaments, mono-type, etc.

>>27616059
>Every single ban is voted on by the community
A community that isnt /vp/, I dont see why we should care at all.

>>27616064
>There are nigh infinite
Oh look, it's fucking nothing!

>>27615790
this as far as community

>>27615769
as far as gameplay it's because you can mix most tiers for pretty standard results, using BST as a means to establish tiers is alright if you like working with a smaller pool of pokemon, but really only faggots play it and you should just play anything goes

>>27615769
Smogon dropped in quality.

That's what happened. Combine that with the demise of Karenfags and casualfags have invaded this board.

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>>27616091
This is nice bait.

The best battles are against people that really use their favorites and you can tell.
Pokemon was never meant to be competitive, smogon just ban things and then has to ban the next best thing and it never ends, I dont like it.

>>27616091
But so many people on here assume that it's some evil overlord creating boundaries for every tier. People like that used to be mocked and scorned.

It is pretty much a given that if you want to play singles, and you don't want to play Battle Spot because 3v3, Smogon was the best ruleset to play by. You don't have to deal with stuff like evasion or Dark Void spam, it's a lot more fair. Almost every Pokemon can perform a role and do it well.

>I don't see why we should care at all
Judging by the explosion of shitposting every time a ban is announced, /vp/ cares a whole fucking lot.

>>27616059
>Strawmanning this hard
You're not helping your cause by doing this.

Make a /cpg/ thread or move on with life. Everyone who wants to play Smogon ORAS OU is already doing so. Meanwhile I'm raping teenagers who use Greninja on Battle Spot with Porygon2 and having the time of my life.

To each their own.

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>>27616165
>The best battles are against people that really use their favorites and you can tell.

>>27616054
This, make a general for it if you like.

>>27616178
/thread

>>27616091
/thread

Except OP is a faggot trying to bait and get a 200-reply argument thread, just like last week.

>>27616196
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
Battling people you know and that have good taste is the best.
Taking a game that has critical hits so serious is just silly

>>27615881
This

But I don't regret being rough on the XY newcomers

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>>27616246
>Battling people you know and that have good taste is the best.

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>>27616165
>The best battles are against people that really use their favorites and you can tell

You've never gotten above 1400 have you

>>27616320
I dont even know what that means

>>27616165
>Wants to use his favorites
>Shits on the format that lets him use his favorites effectivly

>>27616331
That you're a shitter
Kill yourself

>>27616064
>There are nigh infinite ways to build a team

es true. Mega-Mom has like, three movesets. There is lots of variety.

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>>27616165
But what if my favorites are Mega Kangaskhan, Arceus, etc? I'm serious, I love those Pokemon. But I know that they don't have a place versus a Kecleon. That's why tiers are in place.

Hell, even VGC has done something resembling tiers. There was a small event where you weren't allowed to use Pokemon that were above a certain usage.

>>27616178
I tried making some competitive discussion threads. All of them have died before hitting 50 posts.
I wouldn't really mind this if people just minded their own business, but /vp/ has a huge hateboner for Smogon. I was asking what changed to spark this when it was the complete opposite before, karenfag was an actual insult for those who hated Smogon without reason, now it's something like a badge of pride.

>>27616231
Please refer to >>27616173.

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>>27616246
>Battling people you know and that have good taste is the best.
Agreed. My 1,100 hours on Pokemon X were enjoyable mostly because I was playing with people I loved. If someone was a faggot we'd laugh it off because we knew they weren't being serious. And if they went full cancer, the rest of our community had our backs.

Battling anonymous people is fine, but nothing tops the friend list.

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>>27616331

>>27616320
>tfw I hit the 1700 using my favorites
It's impossible to go beyond that unless I have some serious skills though.

>>27616387
>referring me to your bait post

Not gonna happen, you faggot hypocrite.

Wah wah, my threads only get 50 posts love me more /vp/!

Grow some testicles.

Well I for one have hated smogon before it was cool

>>27615769
A wave of the people you speak of managed to find /vp/.
These people think the evil Smogonite bogeyman is out to get them.

For clarification, I'm a muh favouritesfag, but that's exactly why I enjoy Smogon tiers and Showdown.
The games, as they are, are quite anti-player.
They outright implemented a feature to make pre-gen 6 Pokémon unusable in ranked battles.
At that point, if you want a competitive experience, Showdown is easier and better, with BattleSpot I can't even use my old mons, so I'm instantly denied the competitive experience on cart. If I can't use my old mons, I may as well play on a simulator.
The tiers also help some of my favourites be very good, UU is the tier I play in most solely because of Porygon2, Arcanine and Nidoking/Gatr. All four shine in the tier, whereas in an unorganised meta they wouldn't do as well.
You CAN use them, but you wouldn't be getting very far without luck and meme setups.

It's also worth mentioning that these people have absolutely no idea what they're talking about as shown here:
>>27616165
>>27616246
>>27616331

The hate for smogon is maybe 5% genuine, justified dislike based on the bans that they feel are dumb and the users themselves.
A good 60% comes from clueless tards like the one I quoted, and the other 35% is probably misguided hatred.

I didn't enjoy the restrictive rules of smogon from battlenet times. I sometimes do play on their sim but just make a gimmicky team for troll purposes.

>>27616452
Nothing in that post was bait or even sounds like it could be bait. But continue with your paranoia, I guess. I just miss the competitive discussion we had on /vp/, I wonder if the old archives are anywhere so I could post some examples.

It was super common for someone to just kinda ask "hey how is this Keldeo/Heatran core looking, how can I improve it?" And someone would suggest adding on a Celebi or something, and useful EVs to consider, and some weaknesses they might want to look to patch like mixed Infernape or something. There wasn't any hostility or anything, people even talked about VGC like it was no big deal so it's not like I'm masturbating about some Smogon utopia here. People just knew competitive and were willing to talk about it and help each other out. It's just completely different now.

>>27616567
sasuga smogonfag making up percentages about stupid shit nobody cares about

I, for one, got fed up with smogon's powertripping bullshit when they decided to ban leppa berry. There was no reason to do so and it was completely unjustified. sage for shit thread.

>>27616634
Can you think before you post? You know exactly what people were using Leppa Berry for; nothing legitimate. People were abusing it to cause endless battles and nothing about that is fun or competitive. Did you use Leppa Berry strats? Why does that ban upset you?

>>27616612
>taking that part of the post literally
Enjoy wallowing in your own shitposts, I guess.

>>27616664
>I was just pretending to be retarded
Ban yourself from life smogonfag

>>27616680
You could say that, but sadly you aren't pretending.
Enjoy your last (You).

>>27616703
Neither are you, now fuck off

Whoever started posting on this board around XY time needs to leave.

>>27615769
>Smogon is fucking hated around here when it was nothing like that before. What happened?

People wised up and realized that a fan-run community has no say in sanctioned competitions.

>>27616663
Isn't that currently their only complex ban anyways?

>>27616725
Nobody assumed that in the first place.
People started assuming that Smogon thought they had a say in Nintendo's garbage official formats, which has never been the case.

>>27616578
So be the change, or shut up. Whining and farming (You)s is only serving to stir the pot of discontent.

You asked your questions, you got some answers AND suggestions for how to move forward. Now put those suggestions into practice if you aren't a hypocrite faglord.

Plenty of people on /vp/ still play Pokemon: the Simulator. Make a /cpg/ and you WILL get replies, good and bad. You decide for yourself if it is rose-tinted glasses you're peering through or not.

Just do it.™

>>27616663
>waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh, my precious smogon points, I'll lose 20 if I forfeit this match, that cannot be allowed, boo hoo, mommy pls ban the mean leppa berry! ;_;
go fuck yourself. I, for one, enjoy dicking around with infinite metronomes, it makes the same old slog through the same variant of 3 teams bearable until you get far enough up the ladder people actually know how to play instead of ctrl+c ctrl+v. If you're so far up on your high horse you refuse to let people have fun because someone might have to forfeit a battle and lose a few precious e-peen points, you need to step the fuck back and stop being such a colossal faggot. If you get trapped in the funbro cycle you deserve to be forced to forfeit.

>>27616743
There's been a few more complex bans, such as the ban on Speed passing in NU and the infamous Speed + other stat Baton Pass strat. I wouldn't really call Leppa ban a complex ban, it was a complex ban when it was Recycle + Leppa but now it's just flat Leppa.

>>27616436
That's cool. What's your team

I actually like to use my favorites in RU

I love competitive but I stopped talking about it because there was no discussion to be had without being shit on about >muh smogon.
I don't even like OU, I much prefer RU but people have the same attitude either way.

>>27616776
>>27616815
now kiss

>>27616760
>I like to waste other people's time! How DARE you be upset about that!

>>27616760
Funbro is uncompetitive.
Give me one reason why an uncompetitive strategy should be endorsed in a competitive format. It forces an endless battle, that's cancerous no matter how you look at it.

>>27616815
I've wanted to get into RU for a while. It looks offensive like OU without the dumb bulkiness of UU. Is it fun?

>>27616743
Baton passing is banned, Swift Swim + Drizzle was banned at some point, Prankster confusion is banned, etc.

It's a little more than just fucking Mega Chicken and Smogon Sword.

>>27616776
Mostly UU pokemon. Sableye, Arcanine, Noivern, Crawdaunt, Swampert and the only exception being Venusaur.

>>27616760
>If you get trapped in the funbro cycle you deserve to be forced to forfeit
I've never understood how the Smogon community hasn't understood that. And without Heal Pulse, Leppa Recycle is a legitimate win condition. Even using Leppa on something that just spams one low-PP move can be legitimate.
I didn't really mind the ban of the Funbro sets, >>27616845 has a point, but a flat-Leppa ban is just close-minded.

>>27616845
I haven't played in awhile, but the lack of stall and the pool of mons that are viable make it pretty nice.

>>27616840
Oh, so you're advocating a ban on toxic, heatran, self-healing moves, and substitute, among other things? I didn't realize stall teams were banned from OU.

>>27616845
>Funbro is uncompetitive.
Pachurisu is uncompetitive. Oh wait...
>Give me one reason why an uncompetitive strategy should be endorsed in a competitive format
Because uncompetitive strats can actually change the meta if they're well thought out, changing how competitive operates? Funbro not included, obviously.
>It forces an endless battle, that's cancerous no matter how you look at it.
Actually, it doesn't. The battle will end, one way or another. And if endless battles are really so competitive, ban leppa+fling and leppa+heal pulse. fling and leppa serve no purpose but to give the opponent more PP, which only has a bearing on struggle. Heal pulse in general might have some purpose, but combined with a leppa you know what's going to happen. Leppa by itself is not an issue in the slightest, you dickwaving fucks getting triggered by it is the real issue here.

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I really disliked smogon rules... but holy shit VGC is absolutely horrible.

>Primal Groudon
>Crescelia
>Talon flame
>Mega Salamance
>Kangaskhan
>smeargle

I know it's never going to happen. But official nintendo sponsored OU tours would be such a joy to watch.

>>27616941
>The battle will end, one way or another
That's only by DC anon

>>27617024
I'm more of a Mahvel guy myself.

>>27615769
Anon, I'd appreciate a /cpg/ or maybe even something like pokemon showdown general /psg/, I haven't been here since X and Y first started getting leaks.

>>27616320
Dude you're sick

>>27616975
Official singles would be a step in that direction.
I'm not mistaken in thinking that they don't have them already right?
And an update on the ban list would be good too. We don't need a sweeping ban on the "pixie" mythicals, and we especially don't need shit like the primals.

>>27617051
Batman is best, marvel is better

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>>27616941
>Pachurisu is uncompetitive. Oh wait...
Pachirisu isn't uncompetitive. It's unorthodox.

>Because uncompetitive strats can actually change the meta if they're well thought out, changing how competitive operates? Funbro not included, obviously.
What do endless battles do that changes the meta in a good way?

>Actually, it doesn't. The battle will end, one way or another.
Except it can only end when one player gets fed up and forfeits. Not when one player outplays the other. That is not healthy in a competitive format.
Name one competitive community that would allow bullshit like this.

>And if endless battles are really so competitive, ban leppa+fling and leppa+heal pulse. fling and leppa serve no purpose but to give the opponent more PP, which only has a bearing on struggle. Heal pulse in general might have some purpose, but combined with a leppa you know what's going to happen.
There was a strat going around after the Leppa + Recycle ban where a Trevenant would Skill Swap its ability to the opponent, activate a Red Card and switch to Gardevoir, who would trace Harvest and trap with Mean Look. People kept finding ways around it. You'd bitch no matter what, since you're ALREADY defending endless battles as a legitimate strategy.

>Leppa by itself is not an issue in the slightest, you dickwaving fucks getting triggered by it is the real issue here.
What the fuck actually used Leppa Berry? You're not upset because your legitimate Hydro Pump Leppa Berry strategy was ruined, you're upset at the act of banning Leppa Berry.

>>27616975
Have you tried Smogon Doubles? It's like the best of VGC and the best of Smogon combined.

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>>27617051

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>>27616941
>>27617132
It's not even fucking banned.

>>27616975
The only balanced singles meta is 3vs3 with a bunch of legendaries banned. Basically, Battle Spot singles. If that's what you want, that maybe might be a thing one day. 6vs6 will never happen, and hasn't happened since the days of link cables.

Most Smogonites don't even know what that metagame can look like, nor do they enjoy it or understand how to succeed in it, unless they try it.

I might be going crazy but I swear I've seen a Durant doing skill swap and fucking me over by giving me the 'truant' ability, but it apparently doesn't have the move?

What the fuck?

>>27617261
Probably entertainment. It gives you THEIR ability. So you both have traunt, and they switch out

>>27617261
Entrainment, not Skill Swap.

The strat is usually Durant uses Entrainment to give you Truant, goes to Dugtrio who sets up to +6 and Protects on the turns you aren't loafing around.

It never works because you can just switch out, though I was caught off guard once when the Durant had a Red Card.

>>27617261
Entrainment.

Gens 5 & 6 added some fairly zany status moves.

>>27617286
>>27617291
Oh, that's probably it. Thanks anons.

>>27617132
unorthodox = uncompetitive.

>>Funbro not included, obviously.
reading: it works.

>Except it can only end when one player gets fed up and forfeits. Not when one player outplays the other.
Except in order to end up in the funbro scenario in the first place, you HAD to be completely outplayed. Funbro is awful, it has the special defense of a wet paper bag and gets shat on by toxic, and its defense is only good for taking non-SE hits. You'd have to leave an infernape or TTar with no dark move in against a slowbro to get trapped. Even then, if the TTar has thunder punch or some shit that slowbro is going down. Face it, faggot, if you end up getting caught by funbro you are a shitter and played incredibly poorly.

>Name one competitive community that would allow bullshit like this.
Funnily enough, the FGC isn't autistic enough to ban hadoken, despite hadoken spam easily making short work of plebs like you. Only in pokemon are you fucks autistic enough to ban things that punish bad play.

>People kept finding ways around it.
So then why not just bite the fucking bullet and accept that you fucked up? If people went through that level of insanity to get a leppa on to something, they should be rewarded for their creativity, not banned from the fucking game you shiteating cocksucker.

>You're not upset because your legitimate Hydro Pump Leppa Berry strategy was ruined, you're upset at the act of banning Leppa Berry.
Actually, I'm upset because I have to slog through the same copypaste teams over and over until I finally break through to 1500, because you fucks have a few set ideal teams that scrubs copypaste ad nauseum because they think it's the team and the team only that will make them win and not skill at the game, and I'm not allowed to have fun with infinite metronomes to stave off the boredom and monotony. Oh wait, metronome is a gamebreaking move that needs to be banned since it doesn't follow the healthy meta.

>>27616320
>having a certain number of meme points in a fanmade simulator with a few thousand players total is the ONLY objective measure of skill

>>27617337
>balance mons and stall and a nice chunk of all HO gets trapped
>you got outplayed

Fuck off

>>27617337
>>27616941
You're just wasting your time, man. OP just wants to stroke his ego and argue. He won't make a /cpg/ thread if his life depended on it. He's just an atheist who thinks he's god of debate.

>>27617422
Well considering he didn't even know what it was, it kinda shows how shit he is

>>27617422
>with a few thousand players total
That's blatantly wrong though, there's consistently about 10k-15k players online at any given time.

>>27617438
>oh look, it's a slowbro, a pokemon known for its defenses and boosting to power up scald
>HURRR, this means I should leave in a pokemon that gets destroyed by scald or lets the slowbro set up and calm mind without a care to +6
yes, actually, you did get outplayed. Anyone with half a brain and more than triple-digit elo would have switched out, funbro or not. Guess what? Block does not have the same mechanic as pursuit.

>>27617457
You're right, there's no point in responding to him further.

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>>27617462
>it kinda shows how shit he is that he isn't one of the few thousand regulars on a fanmade meme simulator for a game with millions of players
>you can tell I know what I'm talking about by all these smogon points I have

Takes me back to the days of forums when postcount was the definitive measure of whose opinion was correct

>>27617471
>roleplay rooms? Whatever could those be? Surely, SURELY it is to discuss the metagame strategy and to play the battle sim, SURELY it must be for that.
oh you sweet, naive fool.

>>27617537
>he lost by 12 points in baseball but because he doesn't know how scoring works
>he doesn't understand the points so it's he games fault

>>27617584
You don't lose in baseball because of how the scoring works, you lose because you have poor hand-eye coordination, your pitcher was choking, your batters just woke up and can't even count to three, the umpire is clearly biased to the other team, the coach has no idea when to pull the pitcher, ran the wrong way around the bases, or just plain old bad luck.

I take it you've never even seen a baseball, let alone watched the sport. Shove your analogy up your ass where it belongs and make a better one.

>>27617632
Ok here's a better one. How about fencing or pingpong

>>27617650
I know nothing about either of those sports so go ahead.

>>27617680
All I'm saying you can't blame the game when the player doesn't know he's bad when he is doing bad for not understanding the score

>>27617707
Then next time say that in the first place, don't make a shitty analogy that doesn't work at all.

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>unorthodox = uncompetitive.
No, not at all. Unorthodox is something that isn't typically used. Uncompetitive is something that operates completely differently than what is considered fair. Pachirisu isn't something you cannot outplay, a literal infinite loop is. It doesn't fucking matter if "you're bad and you got trapped, you deserve to be forced to sit through this and there is nothing you can do", it does not belong in a competitive ruleset.

>Hadouken spam
That isn't the same thing as an endless battle and you fucking know it. If it was something like "If use this setup that deals no damage but causes knockback that you can't escape from I can prolong this match indefinitely also I'm playing a FG that doesn't have a fucking timer somehow" then your argument would be valid.

>They should be rewarded for their creativity
No they fucking shouldn't, Dennis wasn't "rewarded" when he kept thwarting the Baton Pass bans nor should he have been.

>Actually, I'm upset because I have to slog through the same copypaste teams over and over until I finally break through to 1500, because you fucks have a few set ideal teams that scrubs copypaste ad nauseum because they think it's the team and the team only that will make them win and not skill at the game, and I'm not allowed to have fun with infinite metronomes to stave off the boredom and monotony. Oh wait, metronome is a gamebreaking move that needs to be banned since it doesn't follow the healthy meta.
That's great but what the fuck does this have to do with Leppa Berry?
And like >>27617195 said it isn't even banned. If you want to use Metronome with Leppa you're fucking free to. You're just crying for the sake of it.

You're complaining about copypaste teams because you just want to plow your way to 1500 without contest, sorry but other people are learning the game just as well. People who hate "copypaste" teams hate people for not ""experimenting"" with fucking physical Keldeo or some shit.

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>>27617707
>not caring about the metagame of a specific little league, a tiny fraction of the world's baseball-playing population, means you are SHIT at baseball

>smogonfags ACTUALLY BELIEVE their fansite is the definitive pokemon ruleset

>>27617934
Im saying you can't call a game shit, if you don't understand it

>>27617934
>anit-smogonfags ACTUALLY BELIEVE that smogonfags believe their fansite is the definitive pokemon ruleset.

>>27617934
You are probably the kind of kid who goes to the smogon-owned simulator (PS!) and then complains about people following smogon rules

>>27615881
>Don't be like that, you know it's better to play around 30 Pokemon than to play around 10.
I prefer not to limit myself. 30/721 sounds ludicrous, open yourself up.

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>>27618337
That's the point you stupid fucking namefag.

No restrictions means that the most powerful stuff is all you're ever going to see.