ITT: pokemon that are NOT actually usable ingame Seriously,

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this cute lil fella is useless until it evolves, but to be fair it runs train after evolution

I have never been able to make slugma work.

Tried to beat Sapphire with Beautifly. You'll basically finish the game with silver wind, gust, mega drain, and one other random move. I've heard people say gen 1 has the worst bugs, but they're fucking wrong. At least you have 3 sleep abusers in gen 1, and crit machine scyther

Xatu pre-ORAS was pretty excruciating.

>there are people that can't make anything work in-game
Unless it's fucking Ditto or some other extremely gimmicky mon that makes the game plain unfun, there's no excuse.

>>27349269

>I beat the game with luvdisc!!! I had to grind it to level 90 but look at me, I did it! Look how good I am at grinding, give ME attention!

>>27349269
Your mission should you accept it, is to use the following team:

Cleffa

Shedinja

Dusclops

Swinub

Cottonee

Ledian.

Please do your best and record it.

>>27349269
>extremely gimmicky mon that makes the game plain unfun

So Pineco?

There's plenty of pokemon that are so terrible in game that it takes way too much effort to make them work. Things like Hypno, Beeheeyem and Beautify come to mind.

>>27349269
>the game isn't hard at all lol, I solo'd Red with my charizard so every mon should be like that

You're an idiot. Gen 2 Pineco is walled by any rock steel and ghost type completely, its best damaging moves are either self destruct/explosion or recoil moves, its slow, has a pitiful attack stat.

>>27349331

Unown, Luvdisc, Delcatty, and Ariados would be other candidates

So far the only poke I've legitimately given up on is Pachirisu in Diamond. Fuck that thing would just die to every little attack and it was so annoying

I pretty much operate on >>27349269 standards though so I've toughed through Dusclops, Magcargo, Beautifly, Spinda, RSE Xatu, etc. Just gotta plan out your TM distribution. Haven't gotten around to using everything yet though

I will say I never tried it in GSC but Forretress was a total bro in HG

>>27349372

It makes for good toxic stalling at least, even though that's boring as hell. Trainers all use male pokemon, so if you get a female pineco/forretress, and use attract on it, almost ever trainer pokemon in the game will fall in love with your poisonous pinecone

But seriously, why aren't you evolving that shit?

>>27349269
>Unless it's fucking Ditto
Impostor Ditto is the best mon in the game.

>No STAB
Hidden Power.

Okay, that's a cop out, and you're certainly not going to get perfect hidden powers without sharking, but yeah, hidden power bug.

>>27348935
Correct

>>27348971
Incorrect

>>27349192
Incorrect

>>27349246
Correct

>>27349383
All correct, except ariados

>>27349334
>hypno

Bullshit I'm running hypno for the first time in hgss and he's kicking ass.

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try to use this shitter in gen 3
>no good normal moves
>60 base sp. atk for crunch
if you MIGHT wanna try, use shadow ball
but srsly, don't use

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>>27348935
Doing a randomized emerald hack at work and thus Nigga is amazing. TM09 got randomized into haze (tm compatability is also random) so Fuck everything's stat changes. Also cut is a steel type in this game so eventual stab.

I know base non rom hack pineco is shit but right now ita like my best. Just beat flannery.

>>27349478
Don't know why, but I gravitate towards Mightyena every time he's available early-mid game. He IS hard to use, though, I'll definitely give you that.

>>27349192

Uproar, Stomp, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice are good in-game

>>27349372

I know it's only 20 base power, but I'd really recommend rock smash. It is very likely to lower their defense so it basically increases in power the more you use it, and forretress has the bulk to wear them down

>but it's walled by ghost types

There's toxic, and for the ghost/poisons you'll meet in the ghost gym, just don't use forretress. Not all pokemon are suitable for all matchups

>>27349548
It also gets fire blast and shit once you hit lilycove

>>27349478
He is basically the Furret or Raticate of the gen. Despite his cool design he is not much more than a shitmon.

I know it's an obvious one but Unown. The pokemon is basically useless all around, existing to showcase the Hidden Power move and be part of a sidequest, rather than actually battle.

>>27349619
Now Im gonna use an Unown in my Y run

>>27349383
I've used Delcatty to decent effect before. In a wonderlocke, no less.

>>27349570
Raticate got Super Fang and Hyper Fang
Furret (with is shit) at least got Stab on normal moves
yena got nothing

>>27349803
Dark typing was a goddamn curse for him in Gen 3. He's infinitely more useful in generations after his introduction.

>>27349814
Absol felt the same way

>>27349405
Completely useless against lance

>>27349412
Mr. Sub says hi.

Biggest offender is probably gen 1 Onix, one of the shittiest shitmons to ever exist. Most of its stats were lower than Pidgey, 4x weaknesses, and it doesn't learn a single coverage move. Even its high defense it undermined by its low HP and Special.

>>27349334
Hypno is excellent in Gen 1. Never used it in Gen 2, but I'm tempted to give it a try now.

>>27349331
>>27349383
Hacked in Cleffa, Swinub, Ledyba, Unown, and Pineco at the start of a Silver run just to test this out. Unown is shit, Ledyba is meh, Pineco has situational usage (mainly for Self-Destruct), Cleffa's actually usable in very early-game for status effects, and Swinub is okay so far, though it was lousy until it learned Powder Snow. Just got past Whitney.

Of course it's going to fall apart once enemy stats start increasing -- I white-out a ridiculous amount as it is -- but it's amusing while it lasts.

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>>27351847
Used Hypno in my nuzlocke, it gets Confusion early but that's the only Psychic STAB it'll get for a long time, learns Psychic at Lv 49. However, it can learn all of the elemental punches that can be bought in Goldenrod, so that alone make him capable of customizing his moveset to take care of whatever it wants. Hypnosis, despite the miss chance, is also completely dope, even without Dream Eater.

Can't really speak much about it in HGSS, but it gets Psybeam at Lv 28 and Psychic at Lv 40 so that should help tremendously, and while the punches are now egg moves only, you can still teach it Focus Blast from the Goldenrod department, and if you want to give it the Shadow Ball TM as well then that should net you all the moves you need to round off the coverage.

It doesn't hit too hard after the special split, which is a shame, although it has enough speed to outpace most in-game opponents, and those it doesn't will rarely be able to KO it quickly. So Hypno may not be a great pick, but it's far from worthless and should definitely be considered.

>larvesta
Good luck having something on your team that's absolute deadweight until the Champion

I sedan beautify and delcatry in kras and had no problem, delcatty was the mvp of my team

Try using a Smeargle in a normal run. It's not going to happen.

>>27349478
Eh, I managed to make mine work, despite the low SpA Crunch can do some damage with blackglasses on, its bp is decent. It's not a -good- pokémon but it can actually do stuff.

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I love this little asshole, but...is he supposed to be so weak? Am I just training him wrong, or just have him under-leveled, because he's like wet paper no matter what I throw him up against. His poison moves are great, but he takes hits like a stack of plastic cups.

>>27348935
use hidden power you nerd

Reminder that anything with an evolution need not apply.
Also Quilfish.

>>27349478
>Special Crunch
Dire times those were

>>27349192
It has good mixed attacking stats and can learn most TM'S.

>>27349570
I took both furret and raticate to the e4 with little problem. Never tried mightyena though, I always boxed it at some point

>>27354278
HA toxicroak in rain is goat

>>27354319
Special dark an physical ghost never made sense. Praise gen 4

>>27348935
Gen 4 Toxicroak. It's only strong fighting move it gets, that isn't an egg move, is reversal, which has negative priority. Medicham is a lot better if you find one with a good nature. Thankfully, Toxicroak finally got drain punch in Gen 5 from tutor.

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>>27348935
This guy, in just about every non-Hoenn game.
>horrible level up movepool
>zero offenses
>everything in the endgame has Flamethrower and Thunderbolt
>obtained at level 20something in Johto, right before Clair
>obtained at Victory Road in Kalos

>>27349883
Absol at least got shadow ball + SD to destroy phoebe's team. Iirc it got flamethrower>>27350020
, ice beam, tbolt, and brick break too.

>>27354033
>larvesta
>bad
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/larvesta-is-a-hero.3540630/

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Behold, the true unusable Pokemon. Trying to train one of these things only leads to suffering, especially with all the retarded movesets and choices the NPCs make. For extra pain, try one in gen 2 without encore.

>>27354660
He's good if you are replaying the game and you already know what moves the Pokemon you are gonna be facing have.

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>>27354735
I swear to god the game looks at what you pick, though.

>Sneasel used Quick Attack!
>Wobbuffett used Mirror Coat!
>Sneasel used Faint Attack!
>Wobbuffet used Counter!
>Sneasel used Quick Attack!
>Wobbuffett used Mirror Coat!
>Sneasel used Faint Attack!
>Wobbuffet used Counter!
>Fine, I'll just use counter since I know it's gonna be Quick Attack
>Sneasel used Faint Attack!

>>27354460
>assuming all fighting types have to be physical attackers

Anyone use Slowpoke in-game?

chuggaaconroy said it's bad

>>27354818
If you're playing gen 1 it's probably god tier the second you get Amnesia.

>>27354502
At least in Johto if you manage to grind it up it'll have Fly and it gets Steel Wing at level 49, so you can have it for Kanto, at least. It's not -that- dreadfully bad.

Shoutout to Slugma for being the hardest to use Fire type in the game.

>no speed with no stats that are good enough to make up for it
>Magcargo is weak to everything
>Magcargo has Quilava tier stats despite evolving at level 38


Yeah, I get it's supposed to be slow, but fuck, give it something.

>>27354818
>has had slack off since gen 4
>was retarded broken with amnesia gen 1

It only really was bad in gen 2/3.
Arguably pretty decent in gen 2 actually since pokemon didn't hit thaaat hard yet.

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>>27349478
>ORAS comes around
>dexnav is a thing
>catches one with play rough and moxie
>Literally killing anything fighting/dragon/dark while becoming stronger

>>27349478
>all dark moves introduced before gen 4 became physical instead of special

Why was it even Special to begin with? How was Ghost physical?

>>27354908
Wow nevere used one but it sounds pretty bad

>>27354952
>gen 2/3 sneasel

>>27354956
Magcargo has 80 Sp Attack and 410 base stats, despite evolving later than every single starter.

Quilava has 5 less BST, and has the same Sp Attack.


>>27354964
Is there any pokemon that got a bigger buff in gen 4 than Sneasel?

>gets physical ice and dark moves so it doesn't have to use it's pitiful 30 special attack
>gets a glass cannon evolution that's very fast

>>27349331

dude, you can beat ANY pokemon game with ANY pokemon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHUoziE-1o

>>27354502
Skarmory was an mvp in my Black 2 Run, Toxic and Spikes combined with Protect and Sky Drop fucked up Elite 4 and Iris when I was under leveled. Even then, I'm pretty sure it gets Iron Head for some decent offence

>>27348935
>needing stab for ingame
gen 1 parasact
slash
no breaks
final destinition

>>27349269
this

>>27354502
try getting skarmory in hoenn. you can get it before 4th gym and it's pretty rad. there is a reason why people thought skarmory originated in gen3.

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Gen 3 Mawile.

>Pure Steel
>No Stab
>Very limited TM options
>Mediocre stats

The only good thing you can say was since the attack and defenses were... OK, you could just throw all attacking TMs you got on her and ran away with intimidate and try to ran over any non special threats, but since this was before the split and NPC movesets are funky, that's one hell of a task.

>>27355346
before the spilt it was actually easier
you know if the enemy stab is special or not simply by knowing the its typing

>>27355346
Yeah he was pretty bad. Just like Sableye.

>>27349331
>Dusclops
Guaranteed victory.

>>27349331
>dusclops
It's actually good you retard

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>>27348935
well i for one foudn a bunch of pokemon absolute garbage ingame but still usable if used correctly.
>>27348971
this guy is true
>>27349309
water types tend to not struggle due to having stab surf, and water is always a good attacking type

also comes to mention, ledian and delcatty

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It couldn't do decent damage to anything, it couldn't take a hit to save it's life. I ended up replacing it with Chandelure or Mandibuzz eventually because it was holding the team back.

>>27354385
Furret was actually my first level 100 Pokemon. I taught it all the elemental punches and return back when I first used it.

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Tfw most of these are pokemon i've always wanted to use

>>27357038
I won't deny it was the worst member of my Black run, but without that fast Toxic + Leech Seed, I would have lost a few times.

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>>27348935
>>27348971
forgot these existed

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>>27350524
>Onix

>>27357038
Coil brah

>>27354818
>>27354912
>slowbro bad
>gen 3
Nigga wat? I stomped everything with it in LG. Great surfer, ice beamer AND psychic

>>27357038
>it couldn't take a hit to save it's life
That's the fault of its typing, its stats are pretty good.
It's naturally bulkier than Rotom, for example, and it gets reliable recovery through tutors if you're playing B2/W2.

>>27358587
and flamethrowerer

>>27354791
Your hidden power, mud bomb, focus blast, dark pulse Toxicroak will be the talk of the town! That base 86 special attack will absolutely destroy everything in sight.

>>27358524
Yes, but with Leaf Blade and.... to boot

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gen 3 movepool in general is fucking horrendous

>>27357038
>Emboar too
Slow and 65 in both defenses

>all the cats

Rhyhorn has shitty level up movepool.

Ledian

>>27349331
>swinub
this is actually pretty usable

>>27349803
I am almost certain that normal type did not get STAB in Gen 1. I'm less sure about Gen 2 though.

>>27352626
Update: I've beaten Chuck and Pryce, but Jasmine's going to be a doozy. Currently the entire team is at L28, except for Ledian, which is at L30. We'll see if I can do it.

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>>27349246
>Peck
>Night Shade
>Fly
>Confuse Ray
>Future Sight
>in HGSS, Me First
I don't see the problem. If it's not Ledian/Ariados, it's still perfectly usable in Johto

>>27349192

Use a TM my nigga

>>27361170
Confuse Ray and Fly alone sound good enough to build around for in game.

>>27354502
It's a beast in Black 2. Learns Night Slash through level up for no apparent reason other than the devs figured you might want to fuck the shit out of psychic and ghost Pokemon with skarmory. I've never used a skarmory before the Post-Gazette before and my umpteenth play through of Black 2 has been fun as hell thanks to Skarmory since all but one of my other Pokemon are shitmons.

>>27355346

Mawile still isn't great aside from the fact that Fairy/Steel is a retarded defensive typing.

It takes a lot of riding passenger and cherry picking even shittier Pokemon to get to a good place.

Also I'm seeing a pattern of most of this shit coming from unfortunate STAB mismatches before gen IV

>>27348935
>steel type in gen 2
>unusable
it's obnoxious but you can just break through almost anything with strength just because you resist everything
>>27354784
AI of standard trainers literally just uses random moves

>>27357038
>it couldn't take a hit to save it's life
bullshit, mine pulled through a lot of shit ingame with Leech Seed/Growth/Giga Drain. (+ Leaf Blade as a phys atk 4th filler slot move)

>>27349478
Fuck off Mightyena is top tier design and having access to a dark type out of the gate was an excellent choice. Loved this guy since day one; sure he wasn't ""good"" in Gen III but when they split Sp.Attack up he got much more usable. One of my all time favorites.

>>27361274
>Also I'm seeing a pattern of most of this shit coming from unfortunate STAB mismatches before gen IV
I think a lot of it is just Gen III having so many useless gimmicky shitmon when the game first came out.

Probably why they gave Gen III so many Megas. They fucking needed them just to keep pace. And you still have shit like Spinda and Castform.

>>27354784
wobbuffet cant damage dark types if they just spam dark in gen 2-3. so thats a bad example lol.

>>27361170
>those two flying attacks are physical regardless of generation
>night shade dealt fixed damage
>future sight didn't even get type matchup back then

Dear god how horrifying.

That said I had Giga Drain on my old Xatu, back when I taught it to him, it was 60bp with 5pp, now it's 75bp with 10pp

>>27361547
By Johto standards, Xatu's phys Atk is still within the level of usability
Night Shade is honestly a great move even if you're underleveled as shit like you'll be in GSC/HGSS
Granted Future Sight wasn't so good back then but it's still a decently strong move, especially if you pull it out against a mon with weak SpDef, then KO that one before the next one that might be more trouble is sent out and eats the hit

Deino is fucking unbearable to play with normally, has no moves, low stats, doesn't evolve for ages and then its ability is fucking Hustle.

I think the main "unusable" mons are those fuckers in Gen 1-3 who's moves and stats don't match their type, and there are also no good moves from Gen 4 to compensate.

>>27357038

Also NO MOVES

It doesn't learn any fucking moves because it's a grass type with no limbs, no legs, claws or wings.

So what do they give it to compensate for this? NOTHING.

THEY DESIGN A S-T-A-R-T-E-R POKEMON KNOWING IT WILL BE FUCKING USELESS

Hoppip is impossible to use in gen2.

>>27354818

Slowbro is one of the most overpowered pokemon in the entire game in Gen 1.

>>27354926
me too senpai. I got one with moxie, and then caught others with elemental fangs and play rough to breed them together. I always used Mightyena and it is exciting to see it get better options. Him and Jolteon were actually my main mons in Gale of Darkness.

>>27350524
This

>>27357038
I hope this is bait. Coil+leaf blade sweep was god tier

>>27358678
There's always Return.
>>27361145
>I am almost certain that normal type did not get STAB in Gen 1
Nigga have you ever heard of Tauros?

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>>27348935
As much as I love the little guy, he's a huge pain to use in-game. His typing isn't great, can't into offense at all, and isn't great at defense with dat HP stat.

I kind of want to try using a power-swap shuck in-game though. Or an infestation/toxic one.

>>27350524
I want them to fix onix somehow tbqh, do what they did with scyther/scizor and give him the same BST as Steelix. Then buff both their attacks by 10-20 and make Steelix weigh more.

>>27362012
Infest+Toxic is godly on him, but power swap is pretty much your only way of fighting steel and poison because of their immunities.

>>27362205
That's the nice thing about in-game pokemon, you can always switch out against hard counters and beat them with something else anyway.

Did anyone try using shuckle before gen 4 though?

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>>27362258
An anon here on /vp/ beat the wholle Johto elite 4 with Shuckle alone.

>>27362276
When was that? I think the last playthrough thread I remember reading was some anon doing playthroughs of the cringy fanmade rom-hacks.

a lot of these pokemon aren't viable playing the game casually but a lot are still plenty viable and usable competitively.

>>27349478
I dropped him the second I got an Absol every playthrough.

>>27364048
>gen 3 absol
>physical dark types in general before gen 4

>>27364069
Tyranitar is now, was in its introduction, and ever shall be totally awesome, world without end amen.

>>27364138
That's what we'd call an outlier.

>>27354818
Any pokemon that can learn stab surf is perfectly usable ingame.

>>27357038
>using grass types ingame

There is literally no reason to waste a team slot on those piles of shit

>>27362276
Was it at all related to this?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB34F11224E3E5591

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>>27364276
>slot on those piles of shit
:(

>>27349383
>>27349331
Im playing a duo type "theme" run on Oras. My team is; Ledyba, Spinarak, Nincada, Wingull, Ducklett, and Mantyke.

Ledyba was rough, it had a modest nature and only phys attacks for awhile. A lot of fights were it using supersonic and then tackle spam and reapplying supersonic when it wore off. Just beat Flannery and Ledian is doing alright. Once I got strugglebug in Slateport, it started to actually get some decent dmg in. Once it got dual screens, it basically takes no dmg and deals decent damage.

Spinarak was pretty weak. Most of it's fights consisted of Poison sting until poison applied, then leech life. I gave it Thief via TM and it started hitting decent. 2-3hko on most Pokemon. It evolved and while SLOW AS FUCK, having Shadow Sneak and Sucker punch helps a bit.

Nincada isn't that bad. Scratch spam was rough to be honest. Once it evolved and got fury cutter, things picked up. Slash/Fury Cutter spam, but it works.

Ducklett/Wingull are in an odd spot. They evolve later but their base forms are really bad. They carried early game, I guess, but once I got to Watson they were obviously useless. They weren't actually that helpful against Flannery either. Sunnyday and general "meh" stats. Pelistorm evolved and got a much needed powerboost, but still waiting on Fucklett.


Mantyke. A baby pokemon is kinda the real real right now. Bubblebeam + Confuse ray spam all game basically. I evolved it at level 30 and it's easily my clutch.
Currently, I know I can depend on Mantine and Ariados. Pelistorm just evolved and he has air slash and water pulse, so he's working too, but I just find myself relying more on the other two.


I don't use EXP share. I haven't been super training or anything like that. It's a bit more difficult, as I had to actually have a strategy going into some fights, like Watson and Flannery. But it's not impossible, as my Pokemon aren't "over leveled" and I'm still winning. I do figure the Elite 4 will be a little tough

Cindaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion in HGSS was a nightmare because they're pure special attackers but they only get fire-type special moves and every useful TM they can learn is physical, at the end I had a level sixty Typhlosion with Flamethrower/Swift/Hidden Power and Earthquake because I gave up trying to find something else

If only it could learn Earth Power

>>27361147
Found a way past Jasmine. Confusing Steelix and putting up Reflect with Ledian gave Cleffa barely enough durability to Charm it three times, which in turn enabled Pineco to slowly Rock Smash it most of the way to death, whereupon Swinub then swooped in and killed it with Mud Slaps. Magnemites died to two Mud Slaps each.

Most of the team's at L29, with Swinub and Ledian at L32 and L31 respectively.

Not sure how I'll handle Clair. The secret to Jasmine was that Steelix's locked to physical attacks and Levitateless Magnemites are worthless against a Ground-type. Clair's got strong Special attacks, though, and all my Pokemon except Ledian are shitty on Sp. Def.

>>27364770
I won a Symbol in Emerald with a Yawn+Dream Eater Chimecho once. Have fun finding it though.

>>27364790
I replayed plat a month ago and wanted to use chimecho and hoo boy it was tough

>>27364827
Granted that Chimecho was probably being carried by a Blaziken and Salamence, but still

>>27361697
Once you get poison powder it steps up a bit. Jumpluff is one of my favorite Pokemon.

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Maybe I just got shit on with 0 IV's something, but I boxed him the second he turned to Samurott, he just couldn't keep up with any of my team.

I always keep my starters, except for this piece of shit. And I've done Meganium runs.

>>27348971
Cradily is so fucking based.

>>27364276
Sceptile, Breloom and Ferrothorn say hi.

>>27365363
sceptile is meh bro

>>27365148

Using Samurott is hard because you're most likely going to teach him surf to get out of going to your PC constantly but his level up moveset (and movepool in general) heavily leans physical.

Tynamo. Dear god, poor Tynamo. I'll grant that Eelektross is a fucking boss Pokemon, but using Tynamo is like having a Magikarp for twice as long as you usually would.

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you get this so late in the game that you either need to level an eevee up wih the rest of your team until the 7th gym or drop whatever your doing and train an eevee up 20 levels when you get to the icy rock. Its even worse in X/Y and in b2/w2 its postgame.

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I've always wanted to use a shedninja because it has a cool gimmick, but it's garbage offensive stats aren't worth it.

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>>27365609
>easily one of my three favourite pokemon
>have to really go out of my way to use it in game

Why Gamefreak ;-;

>>27365643
Shedinja's attack is fine, and even if it wasn't it basically wouldn't matter with how it works since it's not like the AI switches

>>27365679
The one thing that annoys me with shedinja is that it's impossible to legally obtain with swords dance unless you get one of the practically unobtainable event ones.

>>27365643
Shedinja is an art, both against the AI and against other players. Use it right, and you will fall in love with it.

>>27354908
Shell smash Magcargo kills your team, proof is in battle maison.

>>27361697
This. Every time I used it I at least gave it the headbutt TM, but even then, it's base offensive stats are ridiculously terrible. It doesn't learn mega drain until 44.

The only other attacking move it gets is tackle at level 10.

>>27361672
It has arms.

>>27349309
Who said anything about attention?

>>27349309
>Luvdisc
Terrible example, as another anon put it.

>>27349334
>Pineco
It has attacks that aren't Tackle. Just because it doesn't have STAB doesn't make it unusable.
>Hypno, Beheeyem
Is this a joke?
>Beautifly
>a Pokémon with recovery
>unusable

>>27349372
Epic greentext, casual.
It's almost like other mons exist for the purpose of beating rock, steel and ghost types.
Are you going to put your Miltank up against a Steelix?
Dumbass.

>>27349412
True, it's pretty good with Imposter.

This board has way too many fucking casuals.
I really hope none of you that think most of the Pokémon ITT are unusable also complain about these games getting easier.

>>27354908
>>27354956

I used a Slugma in one of my HGSS playthoughs.

It basically became dead weight the moment after Whitney. Even when it evolved into a Magcargo it still got shit on by everything and everyone. Shit movepool, shit stat distribution, shit everything, except for design.

Lotad/Lombre in R/S/E

Not one fucking STAB move besides absorb until Hydro Pump at level 49.

>>27365643

>base 90 attack w/swords dance or hone claws is garbage

>>27366114
You get Surf but using Surf on everything ever isn't fun

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>>27348935
what about Lumineon? i almost forgot this existed til a second ago. its stats dont look that neat

>the pokemon evolves in the late 30's or later and isn't a pseudo/starter
>the pokemon has to be kept unevolved forever so it learns a move it's useless without
>the pokemon needs certain tm's you can't get until Victory Road/postgame
>it's a trade evo and you can't trade
>it's a stone evo you can't get until postgame
>the pokemon doesn't learn anything good ever
>its name starts with a D and ends in eino

If your favorite doesn't fall into any of these, be grateful for it.

>>27366148
Thats after the the 5th fucking Gym man. Your pokemon are just hitting level 30 by then. You don't even get to evolve it into Ludicolo until around level 40 in route 124. By that point other water types you have come across are better options.

>>27366276
I get what you mean. It's like if I can't get a SINGLE move that's at least decent by the 5th gym, the pokemon's fucked.

>>27366191
Lumineon gets outshone by nearly every other water type available. There's no real reason to raise one. The only thing it has going for it is its design.

We need more pokemon that evolve early on, and stay useful. None of this "evolve the bug pokemon and have it be good for one gym and never again" stuff.

>>27366311
Early first evo and later second evo like Cyndaquil?

>>27366286
I dropped that fucker in my original run back before the 4th Gym.

I gave up when at level 25 it got fucking furry swipes. I swear GF had a stroke when making the level up list for some of the pokemon in Gen III.

>have to evolve Eevee into Espeon before a certain level or it has no psychic move

>>27366319
The starters mostly all fall into that. The Nidos, Mareep's line, and Starly's line fall into that category as well, just off the top of my head.

>>27366335
Have fun with Double Kick on your Blaziken until level 50-something, that is if you forgot Brick Break existed.

>>27366311
>>27366319
I think the big problem is GF ransoms the best TMs for Postgame or Victory Road now that TMs are reusable. Remember when we got Thunderbolt at the Third Gym?

Early Bug Pokemon just have shit for STAB options early on and that is why they are dropped. Bug Buzz or X-Scissors should be introduced earlier as TMs. Butterfree doesn't get a Bug STAB until level 28!

Another problem is that they are competing with Flying Types against Grass Types. And most early game Grass Types are Poison Types too.

Then Psychic and Dark types are usually rare or reserved for Mid to Late Game.

>>27366365
At least you got Blaze Kick which destroyed worlds.

>>27366191
Swift swim + water-type is an amazing combination ingame that lets even shit like Lumineon be decent. It even comes with rain dance which is actually pretty important in gen 4 since the tm is stupid late for some reason

>>27358699
Literally one fo the biggest disappointments of the franchise given that it evolved from Bug/Water into Bug/Flying on top of being completely useless even in-game. It hurts me how badly Masquerain sucks.

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>>27361620
>tfw I raised a Deino and Larvesta on the same team on my first legit playthrough of B/W
Clearly I like to suffer or something.

>>27361697
Used that fucker in either Colosseum or Gale of Darkness. It got the job done but I remember it being a miserable affair.

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>>27366103
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp5ceMa5KXI

>>27366727
whoops, meant to reply to >>27366114
I'm about to go to bed, my bad.

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>>27364276

Please don't bully my aibo like that.

Also there are some pretty great grass types like Breloom.

>>27364698
After many attempts, I finally hit upon this Clair "strategy":
1) Unown is sacrificed to weaken first Dragonair. Swinub comes in to KO with Nevermeltice-powered Powder Snow.
2) Swinub baits out early Kingdra. Cleffa is sacrificed to Hyper Beam so that Pineco can explode on the recharge turn.
3) Ledian and Swinub take down the last two Dragonairs together.

Not very reliable, and I threw away two successful runs by accidentally evolving Swinub, but it worked.

Current team: L38 Unown/L38 Pineco/L41 Cleffa/L41 Swinub/L43 Ledian. I'm honestly surprised the team's made it this far, but Johto's awful EXP curve helps. And I completely disagree with OP at this point. I'm only making it past Leaders without having to overgrind because I can select their strongest Pokemon and hit "Delete". Sure, it's cheap, but certainly "usable". OHKOing Kingdra's nothing to scoff at.

>>27354908
Slugma is up there, but, I'll be honest. The most deceptively useless fire type has to be Ponyta. Just hear me out.

>Can't be caught till end game the majority of the time.
>Movepool is extremely lackluster till HG/SS
>only area it can shine in, Sinnoh, it is either gimped by shitty movepool or better options
>Evolves late
>offers no utility what-so-ever

I feel like Ponyta is just an extremely weak Pokemon all together and just is outdone most of the time. It's cute and all, but, I can't really see a reason to use it over other Pokemon.

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>>27357038
Truly the worst starter, even worse than Chikorita on all fronts. At least Chikorita knew what it wanted to be. You can make it work, like you can make any Pokemon work, but, it's still not worth the effort or time to do so. Only starter I ever wanted to bench.

Only saving grace was finally getting contrary for competitive battling. Even in Pokemon romhacks that allow it to have contrary, it's subpar till very, very late into the game. Even then it doesn't really excel and is better replaced with literally anything else.

Which is a huge shame, it's still an okay design and I like it otherwise. It's in game performance is lack luster though.

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Despite its good typing, gen 3 Lombre is hardly usable. Stats are terrible and you have to give him Surf (and potentially Strength) to make him useful.
And you can't even evolve him until late game.

>>27348935
Pineco is for setting up spikes and removing setup hazards. It then suicides itself.

Spikes
Protect/Endure/Reflect
Explosion
Rapid Spin

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I tried so hard but hes so squishy

>>27367368
Lombre is for setting up rain dance, hail, or sunny day for your team. Thats why his pre evo gets it and lombre can learn sunny day or hail. Change his typing to reflect that. Have your team be a team that benefits from whatever element. Lombre is a support mon.

Water Set

Rain Dance
Hydro Pump
Thunder Punch
Giga Drain/Rest

Fire set
Synthesis
Sunny Day
Solar Beam
Fire Punch

Ice set (not recomended but can be worked)

Blizzard
Hail
Fire Punch
Mist

>>27367461
Ice Beam
Rest
Sleep Talk
Hidden Power

Rest and spam sleep talk when needed.

>>27367230
Ponyta is used to trap people in RBY

You set up toxic, use fire spin, and wait it out till their within range of your double edge. Forth move is either rest if you want to stay in the game or use agility if afraid of being outsped.

>>27367526
OP Gen One TRAP SQUAD Team

Dragonite
Wrap
Agility
Hyper Beam
ThunderBolt

Rapid Dash
Fire Spin
Toxic
Double Edge
Agility

TentaCruel
HyperBeam
Wrap
Toxic
Blizzard

WeepingBell
Wrap
Toxic
Solar Beam
Mega Drain

Parasect
Spore
Leech Life
Swords Dance
Substitute

Pinsar
Bind
Seismic Toss
Swords Dance
Body Slam

>>27364439
>I had to actually have a strategy going into some fights, like Watson and Flannery.
I swept Wattson in Alpha Sapphire with a lv18 Nincada, he couldn't do shit to it

>>27367506
yeah cos you dont get 1shot by anything out there

>>27349429
fuck off

>>27365475
I just made him mixed with Swords Dance/Razor Shell/Revenge/Surf (I think I had Aqua Jet on him before SD). That worked well enough.
>>27365679
To my recollection one of the only ways to force a switch out of the AI is by using a Pokemon their current Pokemon cannot harm in any way. Shedinja will often fall in that category.

>>27366524
>It even comes with rain dance which is actually pretty important in gen 4 since the tm is stupid late for some reason
Can't you get the weather-altering TMs around Pastoria? I remember there being this guy you can hand shards to (that you can easily get mining in the Underground). Or was that just for Damp Rock and stuff?

>>27349334
I used beeheeyem on my team the first time I played white. It was slow as shit but it could atleast do some decent damage.

Fucking Pidgey in gen 1 holy shit. I was trying to use it in my VC Red run and it is so frustrating. Since Gust is Normal in gen 1, it won't learn any damaging Flying moves until level 28, and that's IF you refuse to evolve it. So it's basically just a Normal type that's weak to Electric and Rock, meanwhile Ratatta is a way more usable Normal type without those weaknesses.

>>27367252
I had swords dance and leaf blade on the first one I used and it did just fine.

>>27368532
The absolute worst part is that Wing Attack is Base Power 35 in gen 1

>>27355430
>>27356133
Dusclops is pretty much the worst ghost to use in Gen 3. Thank god for Dusknoir

>>27368532
What you want to do if you want to use Pidgeot is catch a Pidgeotto around Fuschia, it'll get Wing Attack shortly after and you have Fly already at that point anyway.

>>27349548
Uproar was fucking garbage before gen 5 though.

>>27354952
>How was Ghost physical?
Lick, the only ghost move that was dependant on stats

Astonish is basically the shitter alarm for Pokemon.

If it starts with that move it's 90% likely it's going to be dead weight.

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>good attack stat
>signature move
>water is special
Life isn't fair

>>27367461
I used one on my first Gold team. I later tried to use it one run, and I vaguely recall it KOing Clair's Kingdra with Present (though I doubt it was an OHKO).

I would treat it more like a team mascot than an active member really, but once you realize that it's meant to be bad it's okay.

>>27367506
Why the hell would you run Delibird and remove Present? If you're going to use it, might as well have some fun.

>>27369831
>agility
>weakness policy
>crabhammer

gg

how the fuck do i make a zubat useful ingame?

>>27370069
What do you mean? That line is perfectly fine for a playthrough.
Even in gen 1 with no Crobat it's still far from unusable.

>>27366892
you haven't mentioned your Unown's HP type

>>27370159
what attacks are good on him?
i always get rekt with
>leech life and astonish

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Adorable as hell, but shit competitive. It just doesn't have that good of a moveset for a pure Grass-type.

Until it gets inevitable Mega for Sun and Moon (it's a hula dancer and has some ties to the Sun. If it DOESN'T get a Mega, Game Freak are confirmed to pick Megas randomly), how does even one use it?

>>27370183
Is this your first time playing pokemon?

You can't judge a pokemon off of what moves it has a level 5. It learns bite and wing attack relatively early in all generations and the line has decent speed and attack which is pretty much all you need for an ingame playthrough.

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>>27369914
>"water is special"
>weakness policy
>>27369625
>lick, the only ghost move that was dependant on stats
>the only ghost move
Okay, I give you forgetting Astonish and Shadow Punch, as they're quite uncommon. But how do you forget Shadow Ball.
Unless we talk Gen 1. In which case...
>ghost type in g1

>>27354319
Surf, Crunch, Ice Beam Sharpedo.
Dragon Claw, Crunch, Leaf Blade, Thunderpunch, Sceptile.
Flamethrower Crunch Dragon Claw, Hydropump Salamance.
Halcyon days indeed.

>>27355346
Don't forget Astonish as your only attacking move for a bit unless you roll a high level one. At least normal moves don't fail against one of the most common types in the wild.

>>27370801
ORAS really drove home the realization that the phys/spec split in gen 4 was less kind to Sceptile. It has a fucking amazing physical movepool but its SpAtk is its stronger offensive stat by a considerable amount. Having to use Swords Dance in every battle to pose even a decent threat isn't too great, and even its old signature move Leaf Blade effectively abandoned Sceptile for greener pastures with other Pokemon more fit to use it (Victreebel, Leafeon, Virizion)

>>27369914
>learns crabhammer at level 58 or so

By then you've already beaten the game.

>>27369466

Dusclops used to be incredibly good competitively with an Eviolite, much moreso than Dusknoir.

I once tried a solo run of Gold with only a Pineco and a walk through walls code to bypass things like Surf.

There is physically no way to have a move that can damage Ghost types before your rival battles you with Gastly. The only option is to item stall and Struggle.

Don't even get me started on Jasmine's Steelix, you basically need to hope you get a Special Hidden Power.

>>27370173
Poison.

There must be a worse HP type, but I'm not sure what.

>>27374403
No that's basically the worst type you can get. Basically all poison moves can at least poison or have some side effect, unless it's HP Poison. At least HP Dragon isn't resisted by much

>>27369856
Delibird isnt for fun. Its for killing.

>>27367937
Its one of the many pokemons that need support. Its a support mon. The people in this thread seem to think every pokemon is a attack mon and thats just not the case. Some are the clerics and healers and support roles.

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>>27348935
Skitty.

Serious. I tried a mono-normal run in Hoenn, picked her because reasons, but she is completely useless.
Attack sucks, Special is worse, can't stand some tackles. No moves...

Serious, you just can't.

>>27355312
>before 4th gym
>flannery

>>27374655
It feels like every low encounter rate pokemon in Hoenn is absolutely shit statwise. It's good if you play pmd, but literally everything is good there.

Skitty, Chimecho, Volbeat, Relicanth, there are so many low encounter rate pokemon in Hoenn that just aren't good.

>>27374655
Skitty like every pokemon in this thread is a support team mon. it isnt for attacking. use baton pass, thunderwave, heal bell, and calm mind to up your team for another mon.

>>27349383
I've had Unown in main team once in Gold.

>>27375537
>support pokemon ingame

Even if you tried to do that, it's made of glass.

>>27374581
I had a bad feeling about that.

I'm now able to make it past Will with some consistency and Koga with a little less. It will be a while before I get past Bruno, though.

I'm grinding by doing unsuccessful runs, and so levels have become completely lopsided. Current roster is L40 Pineco/L42 Unown/L43 Cleffa/L54 Swinub/L60 Ledian. Between Swinub's Blizzard and Ledian's Thunderpunch, I can handle pretty much anything but Machamp, which can sweep with Cross Chop + Rock Slide. Well, I'll figure something out.

If I had to rank the Pokemon by the standards of this heavily underpowered run, with 10/10 being a normal Pokemon:
Ledian: 8/10. Has some TM versatility, can inflict confusion, and sports dual screens to boost durability. Also is the only thing on the team with an actual Sp. Def stat.
Swinub: 7/10. Powder Snow made it possible to get past certain bosses, Mud-Slap kills Magnemites, and Blizzard OHKOs certain powerful enemies... if it actually hits.
Pineco: 5/10. Would have merited 7/10 pre-E4, but its durability is bad enough that it can only Explode on certain enemies now. Plus its utility goes down when I can't just run to a Pokecenter between battles, and Revives are costly.
Cleffa: 4/10. Was 8/10 in the very early game because everything had terrible stats and it could inflict status, but it has no durability any more. The sad thing is that it can occasionally get lucky and take down Jynx.
Unown: 1/10. It technically has its uses, such as meatshielding, holding Amulet Coin, and starring in Sinnoh's finest alphabet soup commercials. That's about it, though.

>>27357038
The only starter i've boxed.

>>27375472
Milotic is strong, but so hard(in gen3) to find that don't worth it.

>>27375537
Thanks bro, but this guy know the shit: >>27375592
worthless glass decoy... I got it just for the roleplay.

>it's a pokemon that has very high attack but is electric type

>>27367962
>To my recollection one of the only ways to force a switch out of the AI is by using a Pokemon their current Pokemon cannot harm in any way. Shedinja will often fall in that category.
Definitely not the case in gen 3 ingame, since I've used Shedinja before. Battle facilities in general have marginally smarter AI which you might be thinking of.

used it in soulsilver, pushed hard throught the whole game but it was like basically playing with 5 pokemon at most,

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>>27377972
forgot pic

You in here, EP?

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>>27349331
>>27349383
>>27375626
Final verdict:
Ledian's usable for setting up screens and delivering elemental punches.
Cleffa can actually cope early on, when everything has lousy stats, by inflicting status and taking advantage of STAB for offense. It should be evolved ASAP, however. Its durability will fall off miserably otherwise.
Swinub was pretty good - started slow, but Powder Snow made it a decent Pokemon, and Blizzard turned it into a glass cannon that scored several crucial OHKOs. I'm not sure why it was deemed Cleffa-tier.
Pineco is geared for one purpose: surviving just long enough to Selfdestruct or Explode. The ability to delete my opponent's strongest Pokemon was pretty much why I could get away with avoiding overgrinding until I hit a hard wall with the Elite Four.
Unown should not be used for any reason except gimmick runs. Of all the Pokemon to nominate for "not actually usable ingame", I would put this one at the top.

That was fun. Would do it again.

>>27378544
Shoutout to all the people that did a Psychic monotype that had to use a team of Unown for Bugsy

>>27378629
You have access to Slowpoke by the time you fight Bugsy, though.

>>27364277
wtf he is lvl 20 at the third video

>>27373833
You said it yourself, used to. And I wouldn't go as far as saying incredibly good. Low usage in UU at best. This gen however, Dusknoir is clearly the better mon again, being one of the best in PU, while Dusclops isn't even recommended to use anymore.

>>27356191
level 100 magikarp. That's why you're the fucking champ, Gold.

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>>27370235
Is he in that 90%?

>>27366232
>tfw heracross is my fave
>tfw sweeping e4 with SD + Close Combat/Megahorn
Feels good

>>27366232
my favorite falls into 4 of those points

Eelektross is suffering

Fuck I tried to use Dusclops in Sapphire

Not happening, biggest mistake of my life. Even Mightyena was more useful with Take Down, Swagger, Crunch and Iron Tail

>>27383822
Stalling with curse is great.

>it's the regional bird in a game that isn't gen 4 or 6

>it cant evolve but has the stats of a mid stage/unevolved pokemon
>it's at the very end of the game

>>27377896
My little brother just beat ORAS last week. He let me help him build a diverse team, but the one thing he wanted above all else was a Shedinja.

Sceptile, Shedinja, Magnezone, Talonflame, Gallade, Quagsire

>First Steven Run
>I warned the little jackass that champions tend to start with flying types
>sends out Gallade first
>Spikes
>wrecks Gallade, what follows is one Cradily asspounding his entire lineup of 55s
>Shedinja got wrecked by spikes

He's super discouraged and upset and worried about his lineup. I calm him down and tell him to send out Talonflame first.

>Talonflame barbecues Skarmory
>Quagsire chokes Armaldo with his mighty swamp dick
>Third pokemon is Claydoll, will you change your pokemon
>mfw claydoll has only has earth power
>"Bro, send out Shedinja"
>...Steven swaps out. Go Cradily!
>"Magnezone"
>Steven sends out Claydoll again
>"Shedinja"
>Steven swaps out his Aggron
>"Gallade"
>Steven sends out his Claydoll again
>"Shedinja"
>No one else to run to
>tfw steven loses his title because a small child used a shedinja on his metagross

>Soul Silver
>tfw just got a Ledian and a Kingler

They are alright, but its true, they sucked back then

>>27385597
>struglying with regionalbird
no, you are just bad at pokemon. Regionalbirds are pretty usable.

>>27387678
They're never fun to use, though.