http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread s/np-oras-uu-stage-7-2-a

>>27149674
Explain why, a life long fan of pokemon like me should care.

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Why do u go to a fucking autistic shit website that isn't even recognized by Nintendo. Get off my nuts you fucking faggot.
>best poke banned
>2nd banned
>3rd banned
>4th banned
You literally are a cock sucker.
Tilted

>ban every pokemon

>>27149767

Fuck off Richard.

>The game is changing. And Salamence, I feel, is going to act as a weather vane in regards to which direction this tier will be heading to in the future. Power creep has been ratcheting up for years now, and UU has felt the weight of it as much as anyone. Looking purely on paper, I can see why Salamence has to leave. There are just too many threats right now, and there is simply no way to prepare for all of them. Salamence contributes to this. Guess wrong between MixMence and DD and your answer could lose 60%, or worse.

>So kick these guys out, right? Keep paring a way at the edges until we can get back into the old days, when you could just switch in your "answer" to a certain Pokemon and breathe a sigh of relief. Maybe.

>Yeah, we could ban Mence, suspect others like Hydra, and generally keep working down until we have our ideal metagame, where you have threats, and their counters(or "Hard Checks" lol). The question is, such a thing even possible? Is there actually a core of Pokemon in our tier that would lead to this type of metagame? Borderline is now the largest it's been since it was it's own playable tier. Undoubtedly, Gen 7's BL will be even larger. How far are we willing to search for something that may not even be there anymore?

>It is looking more and more that such a thing is no longer possible. The era of Pokemon having counters is largely over. Movepools are too wide, and stats have climbed too high for that to be a viable strategy any more. The focus should now switch to counterplay. A broken pokemon has no counterplay, not "no counters". "You can't switch in safely" should not be a valid reason for a ban. These type of bans haven't gotten us anywhere in a long while.

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Smogon is fucking garbage.

>go on Showdown
>make team of obscure Pokemon
>get stomped to death by a tier whore running all of the best Pokemon
>brags the whole time like he didn't just steal the builds off the internet

>>27151249
I agree and disagree with this guy. I'll post a write up in the thread when I have some time.
A summary of what I wanna say is that BL is indeed too bloated. All the BLs are becoming too bloated. People need to accept that UU is at the power level of gen 5 and gen 4 OU.
The guy's idea requires a radical rethinking of everything. I don't think that's necessary. People just need to shift their windows of what each tier's power should be at.

>>27151302
Sounds like it's that guys fault and yours for getting your ass handed to you.

Git gud or don't complain when you go to OU expecting to encounter pokemon of the same caliber you used.

>>27151423
Basically this.
I think this was the whole reason they added another tier.
Retards just can't comprehend what that means because they added it at the bottom.
If they had added it in between UU and OU, everyone would understand that that tier was going to be more powerful than UU of gens past.
But because the new tier is at the bottom, they can't wrap their fucking heads around it.
What it means is that all of last gen's tiers will seep into the tiers below them.

>>27149674

Salamence is cancer in UU though

>>27151302
Its called a competitive format.
If you were any good you wouldve stood a chance.
You're also going to get stomped a lot before you actually do get good

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>>27151302
>make team of obscure Pokemon
The world does not revolve around your scrubby hipster ass

>>27149674

Do you actually play the UU tier, OP? If not I don't see why you made this thread.

>>27151249

Or it could be that the 18 mons in OU are all genuinely broken and would result in battles based entirely on luck or matchup. or would tip the metagame to hyper offense at the expense of balance and stall. The fact that so many people call the ORAS UU metagame the best of gen 6 is a good indication to what the answer is.

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>>27151658
>>27151507
>>27151600
>when you use obscure pokemon and win

>>27151423
Commonly Used fucking when?

>>27149674

Give me one reason why salamence shouldn't be suspect tested. Since you obviously play the tier based on your post, let us know.

And no, "because ice beam kills it" is not a reason. A reason in respects to its performance in the UU tier.

>>27149674
>smogon
not relevant to this board
fuck off to your forums

>smogon

can you go away

>>27149767
If you play with your mentally autistic friends, maybe, since that's the only time you'll use smogtard rules.

If you play the VGC at sanctioned events, or only play for fun, this doesn't affect you at all.

>>27151763

>tfw your OU: THE TEAM team lost because of a fucking Flareon

I got cocky and thought a Heatran could take a hit from it.

>>27151837
I think most of us knew that feeling at some point, especially if its some off the wall shit that no one really prepares for when they're teambuilding

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>>27152031
>tfw got caught out by a specs scizor with HP ice
I did not expect it in the slightest

>>27151249
>2016
>only now realizing that Smogon's meta is flawed by default
I just sit back and laugh, it's only going to get worse for them in SM

>>27152088
>once got 4-0'd by rollout regirock in a pbr wi fi match

>>27151798
>And no, "because ice beam kills it" is not a reason.
Has this ever been a legitimate reason, or part of a good argument for the placement of certain Pokemon? I remember when people were discussing Garchomp during DP OU and a lot of the arguments were that it was safe because various choiced Pokemon could revenge it safely

>>27152183
>I just sit back and laugh, it's only going to get worse for them in SM
I'm inclined to believe that a lot of people aren't fans of XYORAS metas because of how Fairies and Mega Evolution were handled

Why is this still an argument? If you don't care about smogon, don't play by their rules; no one is forcing you to. If you do, then ladder to get points and vote to not ban. Its quite simple autists.

>>27152268
Megas can be a legit criticism, but there is nothing wrong with fairy. The only reason fairies are good is because of Huge Power and Pixilate on a few things, not the actual type itself.

Salamence is easy enough to prepare for, it's just that preparing for it makes all teams look similar. You do Bulky Water +Fairy. Bulky water forces Salamence to switch or use Outrage since you'll whack it with Ice Beam. If it kills your bulky water type, you send in a fairy now that it's locked into outrage and revenge kill it. granted, those are both things you want on a lot of your teams, but Salamence is a centralizing presence. however, I still really like Salamence and don't mind playing a centralized metagame. I actually kinda like it since it makes a lot of the faggy shit I'm tired of fighting like Blissey/Mandibuzz cores and Beedrill Volt-turn obsolete. God, I hate Volt-Turn with a burning passion.

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>>27152429
I can see that, especially since a lot of Fairy Pokemon did indeed receive a lot of good or ridiculous abilities and moves.

>>27152429

Offensively, Fairy has no immunities,only one double resist (Heatran), and forms a Boltbeam-like combination with Ground. Defensively, Pokemon have to rely on sheer power to break through Fairies because of their uncommon weaknesses.

The only reason Fairy isn't a monster of a type is because iy shares Electric's problem of all its Pokemon being too similar. Slow, bulky, specially defensive.

>>27152429
>not the actual type itself
Are you joking?
It's only two weaknesses are terrible attacking types with very low distribution on high powered moves. Not to mention its weakness are completely shut down by steel, so it's incredibly easy to form cores with the type.
The only reason fairy isn't completely borked is because most of the type are low BST shitmons. Fairy is absolutely retarded. It needs one more type that's supereffective against it.

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Usually i have to make bait posts posing as rabid vgc players to get the shit flinging going but i'm glad Pokemon: Go has bought some real verlisify tier people to this board.

Now everyone sit back and enjoy the dick waving contest between the smogon drones and low ladder shitter.

>>27151302
>Use shit pokémon on a high tier
>Somene better than you and with a better team wins

F-FUCKIGN TRYHARD PIECE OF SHIT

>>27152798

How to fix Fairy:

Change its Bug resistance to a Ghost resistance (Ghost is retarded right now, with only Dark resisting it and Normal being immune)
Give Water a weakness to Poison; this will make people use Poison-types, thus making life harder for fairies

>>27152943
>Use shit pokémon on a high tier
>Somene with a better team loses

HAHA, TRYHARD PIECE OF SHIT

>>27152798
Was just discussing this more with a friend, we came to the conclusion that Fairy is a net benefit to any Pokemon it gets attached to, defensively and offensively

Name 1 (one) drawback Fairy as a typing has.

Why won't Nintendo buy SMogon so they can use their rankings? Say what you want, but at least there is some sort of balanced 1 v 1 pokemon battle system. I fucking hate that Nintendo uses 2 v 2.

>>27152793
>>27152798
Water and Ground on paper are just as good if not better, yet you never see complaints about those. Fairy is supposed to be a defensively focused type, but its the small pool of fairies with megas and/or crazy offensive abilities that make it seem better overall than it is. Now if Gamefreak starts making a bunch of basic fairy types with offensively focused stats and more good fairy moves, then their intentions with the type might be questioned.

>>27149674

I didn't even know what the suspect before but I've been shredding the suspect ladder with a copypaste Sticky Web/Tailwind team.

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I don't see the point in people complaining about Smogon if you don't play it
its a rule set not religion
don't like them make your own rules
>>27153163
they are rules not a company,I'm surprised showdowns hasn't been taken down its a complete copy of a main part of the game
>>27153109
Fairy does not resist fairy

No ones forcing you to play their metagame faggot, get your own friends create your own rulesets

>>27153163
>I fucking hate that Nintendo uses 2 v 2
Doubles is just what they use for real life tournaments, there is still a supported meta for singles, triples and rotations in the game

also
>Nintendo

>>27153209
Water is overpowered as well. Ground is strong, but ground also has to deal with very common immunities. Not only that, but ground is actually weak to very common attacking types. It can't switch in willy nilly and spam earthquake forever and ever. Fairies doesn't have to deal with a single immunity. It can span with impunity since there's literally only one pokemon that quad-resists fairy and there's not a single pokemon that's immune to fairy.


And your point about megas don't mean shit. Some of the strongest fairies are low bst kittens like Clefable. Clefable went from obscurity to the top of OU from a fairy typing and Moonblast, Fairy does too damn much. Its weaknesses are threatening at out. It gets resisted by barely anything and it has ridiculous moves like Moonblast.

>>27151830
>>27151823

>Not revelant to this board

That's a stretch. The most popular pokemon metagame of all time should allowed to be discussed on the board dedicated to all-things Pokemon. Sounds to me like you just have a problem with Smogon.

What is your opinion on GO being discussed on this board?

And finally, how did you become this pathetic and entitled that you think you can dictate what can and cannot be discussed when it comes to on-topic current events?

>>27153310
>Doubles is just what they use for real life tournaments

This is the fucking problem. Why? Singles with a ban list should be the fucking tourney standard

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>>27152088

>Will o Wisp Zard Y

>>27151302
There's a reason those pokemon aren't high tiered

>>27153326
>OU
Smogon's deformed meta barely says anything about a type

>>27153416
Sounds like something someone would run in high ELO

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>>27153416
Natural Gift Metagross is probably the weirdest thing that has ever caught me out.

>>27151249
kek

>>27151586
It's not even the most popular pokemon in UU, faggot. It doesn't even have over 20% in usage. A cancerous pokemon would be someone like Landorus-T in OU.

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>>27152088
>tfw the first time you got Linooned

>tfw yesterday I got into a match in OU against a stall team that lasted for 500+ turns
>it's so long the replay didn't even save the entire match
>retreat to UU until OU is fixed or SM come out
As long as UU stays as offensive as it currently is it should be fine. Just don't fucking touch Hydreigon.

>>27152798

Grass should be SE, Fire gets the resist, Water is the neutral party, offensively and defensively.

>>27153391
Doubles is faster, can do 3 game matches without running into overtime easily. Plus it's easier to balance than singles, since you have more answers to a single threat on the field.

>>27153897
w-what does Linoone do?

>>27154120
belly drum memespeed

>>27153897
I feel you bro.
>>27154120
Belly Drum, Espeed, Shadow Claw, Seed Bomb It's a baby Arceus.

Everyone has lost to it at least once.

>>27153391
Singles is just 100% hopeless, forget it. You need an ever-increasing and increasingly annoying banlist of Pokemon, items, moves, clauses, etc. They understand this now. Doubles is harder to completely destroy with one broken thing.

>>27153521

I don't know man. Zard Y's most common switchins are the Latis, Heatran, and most other bulky Fire types and certain Waters that can bulk a Solarbeam.

Burn does really nothing to the above. It was the weirdest thing ever because I got my Bisharp to +2 and was poised for a sweep but then the fucker burned me. I still won the battle but I just fail to see what that's meant to hit. Maybe Garchomp?

I feel like Dragon Dance is a better niche option on Zard Y with speed creep from XY to ORAS and the "good" speed tier nowadays being 110. It would really appreciate being able to move first against M-Metagross, M-Diancie, Keldeo, M-Manectric, Weavile, M-Lopunny, etc.

>>27154120
STAB Espeed after a Belly Drum. Like even unboosted, just the fact that E-Speed is 120 power for Linoone makes it hit like a Scizor's Bullet Punch. Then you BELLY DRUM that shit.

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>>27153109
Fairies cannot enjoy burritos.
That sucks, because burritos are delicious.
>>27154155
>Dragon Dance
Wouldn't Tailwind be marginally better on Zard-Y?

>>27154225
Helps the team. Zard-Y is part wallbreaker part utility mon

>>27149674
What's Ruud Gullit doing here?

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>>27153587
>using assist v-create shenanigans team
>send out Delcatty
>opponent casually switches into a water type to wall the obvious v-create
>one shots it because of normalize
>opponent rage quits against a Delcatty

>>27154017
If salamence goes then Hydreigon is next.

>>27154562
Why? Fairies shit on him and he has to rely on the 70% acc iron tail to beat them.

>>27154643
But Mence is one of the better Hydreigon checks. It's just like how when RU lost Steelix, Tyrantrum had to go as well.

>>27154643
That's what they're saying in that smogon thread. Also, I don't see the point of banning salamence this late considering that sun and moon are a few months away. I know they did the same shit in gen 4 and it was stupid back then too.

>>27154725
Wasn't Landorus-I banned in BW2 really late

>>27153847

>It's not even the most popular pokemon in UU

Among the best players (the 1760 stats), it is

| 1 | Salamence | 23.34945% | 96870 | 13.069% | 69856 | 12.311% |
| 2 | Sylveon | 21.34876% | 88367 | 11.922% | 67164 | 11.836% |
| 3 | Entei | 15.66671% | 68594 | 9.254% | 54073 | 9.529% |
| 4 | Cobalion | 14.87516% | 45507 | 6.139% | 35861 | 6.320% |
| 5 | Krookodile | 14.82654% | 60940 | 8.221% | 47640 | 8.395% |
| 6 | Beedrill-Mega | 14.33955% | 95132 | 12.834% | 71339 | 12.572% |
| 7 | Conkeldurr | 13.80346% | 77644 | 10.475% | 61007 | 10.751% |
| 8 | Crobat | 13.42425% | 95910 | 12.939% | 75205 | 13.253% |
| 9 | Forretress | 13.11584% | 83943 | 11.325% | 72591 | 12.792% |
| 10 | Swampert-Mega | 11.85249% | 46261 | 6.241% | 36631 | 6.455% |

Salamence does have over 20% usage among highest-ranking players

>>27154776

Woops, those were last months stats

These are the current stats:

| 1 | Sylveon | 25.31870% | 64142 | 12.837% | 48513 | 12.660% |
| 2 | Salamence | 20.95098% | 62640 | 12.537% | 45593 | 11.898% |
| 3 | Krookodile | 19.69806% | 46594 | 9.325% | 36540 | 9.535% |
| 4 | Mamoswine | 17.65086% | 37415 | 7.488% | 29877 | 7.796% |
| 5 | Celebi | 14.47212% | 31088 | 6.222% | 24268 | 6.333% |
| 6 | Blastoise-Mega | 13.84216% | 49281 | 9.863% | 39428 | 10.289% |
| 7 | Entei | 13.73032% | 41226 | 8.251% | 32121 | 8.382% |
| 8 | Hydreigon | 13.16153% | 52682 | 10.544% | 38787 | 10.122% |
| 9 | Aerodactyl-Mega | 12.81865% | 44979 | 9.002% | 32388 | 8.452% |
| 10 | Empoleon | 12.72537% | 46255 | 9.257% | 38591 | 10.070% |

The point still stands

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A reminder that bans are necessary for a healthy metagame.

Instead of automatically assuming Smogon is retarded, try reading the thread and forming your own opinion based on what people who actually play the tier are saying. Smogon's bans are 100% determined by its community. It's not the authoritarian institution people assume it to be. That means YOU can determine Salamence's fate if you can get the required points!

I don't agree or disagree with a ban because I don't play UU. I find the tier cancerous and prefer RU and OU. I'm not going to form an opinion on it when I clearly don't know the context because that would be fucking retarded.

>>27154773
Chandelure was banned in Gen V UU during XY. Nothing is out of the question honestly.

>>27155011
>Kyurem-White
Good to see someone else sees its potential

But yeah, I started out bashing Smogon because the people I followed on Youtube before I tried competitive were bashing them. Once I got into it I understood what all the clamor was about and decided it wasn't so bad

Terrakion should go back to OU. It's way better than Breloom or fucking Dragonite.

>>27155347
It's in BL so there's nothing preventing you from using it.

>being a mindless sheep who needs to do what smogon tells you to.

>>27154776
I hope they ban mbeedrill next

>>27154711
Did you never play UU without Salamence?

Smogon is a cancerous cult that GF/TPiC should destroy.

>>27157164
This. That thing is cancerous.
>u-turn

>>27152429
No, that's the opposite. The fairy type is one of the best in the game both on offense and on defense. The Pokemon that ARE faeries are all shit that have one gimmick that sells them. Vanilla Gardevoir is THE best fairy without such a gimmick. Look how much Gardevoir jumped after it got Fairy.

Look at Xerneas, the posterchild. Xerneas is utter fucking garbage without Geomancy. Not because Fairy is bad, but because it's stats are distributed retardedly.

Azumaril, Clefable, and Sylveon also have godawful stats, but an OP ability to compensate.

As soon as a Fairy type that doesn't have shit stats comes along, the metagame is fucked around it.

>>27157430
>Look how much Gardevoir jumped after it got Fairy.

Gardevoir jumped because of its Mega, vanilla Gardevoir is still trash

>>27157264
>>27157164
Just use scarf anything, mega aero or crobat.

>>27157164
>>27157264

that shit dies so fucking easily, git gud faggots

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>Smegmon

>>27157613

I don't think it should be banned either, but it's comments like this why some of you are never taken seriously. "It dies to everything" should not be your only argument. How about talking about the things that it threatens or doesn't threaten in the ACTUAL tier?

>>27153009
>Give Water a weakness to Poison; this will make people use Poison-types, thus making life harder for fairies
I've been saying this forever. People don't use Poison-type moves because besides Fairy-type it only hits Grass for SE damage. Grass-type are rare in the upper tiers making Poison as a coverage move useless. There are a lot of Water-type Pokemon in OU and UU is the home of bulky Water-types. Make Water-type weak to Poison gives people a reason to use Poison type for coverage.

Smogon is trying to bring stall faggotry to UU. When Alakazam was banned there was a increase in stall. With the Salamence suspect stall's presence in UU has increase even more. If you don't want 100 turn battles vote to keep Mence in UU

Do Smogon players even play or care about the games?

>>27159415

considering there's a program dedicated to simulating it i would say yes

>>27149674

Oh god no, please tell me Ruud Gullit didn't become a meme

>>27159307
Making Ice immune to water is a good idea too (I dunno about both) This gives all those fragile ice types a foot in the door, capable of switching in on fucking scald spamming which is too easy.

This also makes people think about what moves to put on watermons. Ice/Water is completely stopped by BOTH ice and water types now, you may want a better coverage move. This helps out grass types, who should be an easy counter to water but typically arent due to ice beam/blizzard proliferation on nearly every water pokemon.