>He thinks zodiac theory is legit >He thinks water starters=weapons

The real Fire theme

>Charizard: Flame on tail
>Typhlosion: Flames on back
>Blaziken: Flames on wrists
>Infernape: Flame on head
>Emboar: Flame on neck
>Delphox: Flame on stick

>>26837465
>Litten: flame in mouth?

>>26837441
Zodiac is legit
Grass follows prehistoric creatures & evolution

Water one is pushing it

>>26837483
It's the final evolutions that have open flames in their designs. Not all the first/second stages do, like Torchic an Tepig

>>26837490
Zodiac is not legit. Cyndaquil and Fennekin disprove it entirely, and Charizard is really pushing it

I'd agree with you on grass except torterra is the world turtle and septile is my mom's gecko

>>26837507
I mean, I was just kind of jokingly speculating, but then you came and decided to be a faggot

>>26837483
>>Litten: flame in penis?

>>26837516
Cyndaquil is called the Fire Mouse
Fennekin is a canine
Litten is a cat even if it's not an outright tiger

They don't want to play directly into it like the same way they don't do Gray or Z but the fact that they haven't outright deviated shows they're following something.

Sceptile has an uncanny resemblance to Dilophosaurus, especially if you look at the original R/S sprites. Venusaur resembles Dimetrodon, but with the flower instead of a sail. Obviously Meganium is Brachiosaurus. Chesnaught is a Glyptodon, which was around the time of the Ice Age when early mammals roamed. The others are just early modern day animals that are related to dinosaurs.

>>26837507
>Cyndaquil and Fennekin disprove it entirely
They don't. Cyndaquil is rodent just like rats and Fennekin is a canine just like dogs. If anything, they're evidence.

>>26837441
You know, as much as I hate zodiacfags, at least they picked a pattern and stuck with it instead of changing it every time something doesn't fit like the fucking dinosaur/reptile/prehistoricfags. And at least it's conceivable that a future fire starter could be based on something so far removed from anything in the zodiac that they won't be able to say it's "close enough" anymore.

The prehistoricfags can never be proven wrong though because pretty much any animal a Pokémon could be based on evolved in some form before people did. You could just as easily say "grass starters are animals" and it would amount to the same thing, while also being completely obvious and not a fucking pattern. And this non-existent pattern will continue to hold regardless, which almost makes them more annoying. Almost.

File: tObk4C7[1].png (670KB, 617x776px) Image search: [Google]

670KB, 617x776px

>>26837591
>Cyndaquil is rodent

Enchiladas aren't rodents

>>26837590
>Chesnaught is a Glyptodon

You know what, I take back what I said here >>26837637, prehistoricfags are more annoying than zodiacfags. Grasp at straws harder you fucking retard.

>>26837590
>Implying pokedex is canon
>Implying blastoise is a shellfish

>He thinks foxes are fucking dogs

>B-b-but they don't play directly into it!
Stop being in denial, faggot. Cyndaquil is very obviously an echidna (pic related) or hedgehog, based on how it acts (getting flame wheel and defense curl) and how it looks.
Also, fennekin is not a fucking dog. Braixen is not a fucking dog. Delphox is not a fucking dog. You're retarded if you think that.
>Inb4 Muh canine family
It doesn't work like that. Foxes are their own species and in their own family that is derivative of canIDS not canines. The canid family includes dogs, wolves, foxes and tanukis and foxes are too specific for it to be "close enough".

You're goddamn autistic and you should kill yourself.

>>26837637
That's not true. The prehistoric pattern makes sense and can still easily be broken if GF goes and introduces an anachronistic early animal.

We've gone from pre-dinosaurs to early mammals and birds, so if GF releases another dinosaur in Gen 8, that pattern is out the window.

File: echidna-claws-up.jpg (333KB, 644x429px) Image search: [Google]

333KB, 644x429px

>>26837668
I forgot pic related like an ass, but my argument still stands, you faggot

>>26837680
This. Prehistoric fags keep stretching the parameters, same with zodiacfags.

>>26837661
You're getting mad when you don't know any more than I do. I think your annoyance can be assuaged with a prehistory lesson. These connections don't come from thin air.

>>26837668
You hit the nail on the head about the Pokedex except for the part where you dismissed it as being non-canon.

The Pokedex uses a child's exaggerations and limit of knowledge (since the protags are 10) to explain the Pokemon. Calling it a mouse is supposed to be the big tip off that it's fulfilling that role.

I don't think foxes are dogs, but they fulfill that role. Same way I don't think cats are tigers, but you get the idea.

The denial is in your court considering you refuse to accept that GF doesn't follow strict guidelines. Look at Samurott and the rest of its line, for example. GF likes to break patterns, yet for some reason we don't have anything completely off from a Zodiac mon. Where's the Fire Ant or Fire Fairy or Fire Giraffe?

File: fuck.png (107KB, 365x330px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 365x330px

>>26837591
>>26837590

Fennekin is based a fennec fox, which is a vulpine, not a canine. Yes it is in the family Canidae, but so are wolves, coyotes, jackals, and tanukis. There is a difference between canine and canid. If you insist that a fox is a dog because it is in Canidae, you must also insist that all these things are dogs as well, and I somehow doubt that the Chinese were envisioning jackals or tanukis when they added the dog to the zodiac.

File: Pokemon-SunMoon-Starter-Litten.png (201KB, 600x438px) Image search: [Google]

201KB, 600x438px

>>26837483
They're on the back, in the form of it raising its hair. I don't get how are the fake evo artists miss this detail.

>>26837590
If cyndaquil is a mouse, the charizard can't be a dragon, it's the lizard pokemon

You have to apply the same set of rules for there to be a pattern

>>26837766
Yes, they're close enough. I don't see what the confusion is. It's not like I'm saying a Fire Elephant is somehow to represent a dog because they're both mammals.

And it's the Japanese that are taking inspiration, not the Chinese that are paying a direct homage.

>>26837483
>Litten: Flamin pussy?

>>26837787
>You have to apply the same set of rules for there to be a pattern

No I don't. There aren't any set of rules like some game. This is all observation at what's provided.

File: 123.gif (13KB, 329x322px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 329x322px

>They're close enough!
Zodiacfags are literal retards. Saying Foxes = Dogs because they're both Canidae is like saying pic related is a Cockroach.
Even disregarding biological differences, you're talking about an aspect of Chinese mythology. Dogs and Foxes are ENTIRELY different in that aspect, whereas dogs are seen as loyal guardians, foxes are seen as tricksters and fiends (probably why they chose a fox for a Pokemon with a wizard motif)
It's also stupid to say Charizard is supposed to represent a long, when a long is nothing like a european dragon. They're just called "Chinese Dragons" for western convenience.
I don't even need to say why calling an Echidna a Rat is stupid.

>>26837759
>B-b-but the pokedex is filled out by a child! That's why it exaggerates things!
Which is why it isn't canon, you fucktard, the entries don't make any sense half the time

>Foxes aren't dogs and echidnas aren't mice, but they fulfill those roles!
Fuck off with this shit. Quit moving goalposts, you're already BTFO.

>Saying I'm the one in denial

>Gamefreak likes to break patterns, which is why it's weird that they kept so closely to this one!!
Except for cyndaquil isn't a mouse and isn't a stand-in for a mouse, meaning this theory is BTFO since gen 2

>Implying if there was a fire giraffe you faggots wouldn't call it a horse

One more point I have to add, how come the first and final evos almost never match up?
If Charizard is a dragon, why is charmander just a lizard? But then cyndaquil is a """mouse""" and typhlosion is a badger? And litten is a fucking cat, so even if his evo is a tiger, you'll still be grasping at fucking straws since cats are deliberately not in the zodiac.

>>26837794
>>26837822
You both are fucking moron faggots and you both need to kill yourselves.

File: rip the skin.png (360KB, 504x461px) Image search: [Google]

360KB, 504x461px

>>26837638
Either you're making such an ironic joke I can't tell it's a joke, or you're a phone poster. Either way, I'm just imagining Knuckles the Enchilada now.

I also think you've got the wrong Mustelids for Quilava and Typhlosion. In my opinion they are closer to a badger and a wolverine respectively, though I'd like to hear your reasoning on why you chose those particular animals.

>>26837759
Also, like >>26837787 said, you have to apply the logic of cyndaquil being a mouse to Charizard as well.

Meaning g, no matter what, zodiac theory is BTFO cuz Charizard is only a lizard, not a dragon.

If folks on here can accept that a ball with long ears with no bushy tail as a rabbit, why can't they accept a shrew-lke rodent as a "rat"?

File: is this really bait.jpg (118KB, 1600x900px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 1600x900px

>>26837794
>Yes, they're close enough
Yep, that's why virtually no culture in the world made a distinction between these animals long before scientific nomenclature and cladistics were invented. There definitely were many times in history where someone said "we're hunting foxes" and then when their hunting partner died because they were actually hunting wolves, everyone shrugged and said "they're close enough. He should've known what I was just taking inspiration anyway."

I'm honestly not even sure if I'm talking to a troll at this point.

>>26837858
I think you don't know what canon means. It's an official reference.

The goalpost was never moved, stop pretending you know how to argue. I've mentioned from the start how Litten didn't need to be a tiger to check the tiger slot. I've mentioned how the others are connected to what they represent.

>Except for cyndaquil isn't a mouse and isn't a stand-in for a mouse, meaning this theory is BTFO since gen 2
Dex could've said Fire Echidna Pokemon or Volcano Pokemon (like the rest off its line, hmm, why would they point out it's a mouse??) or something else, but it didn't.

Giraffes have a very unique set of distinguishing differences. The fox has a red coloration and..?

Because we've been talking about influence this whole time, not copypaste.

>>26837661
You have holes for eyes?

The resemblance is uncanny, save for the fact that Chesnaught stands upright and has longer arms.

If that's enough to discount it, then I guess Delphox isn't a fox either.

>>26837933
I've already explained it's an expanding pool of influence. If something tips you off to there being such a connection, you don't shut your eyes to every other means of being given a clue.

>>26837955
It's because they look the same minus the color, if it's that hard for you to grasp.

I swear the next fire starter is gonna match the zodiac theme, then the next after that, and the next after that and so on, and people are still gonna be like

>lel!!!! dog=/=fox!!!! cyndaquil is a echidna!!!

>>26837955
>close enough

is basically how a lot of animals are classified, and why we have back and forth from initial classification. Like Panda Bears.

>>26837955
The Japanese did lump Badgers, Bears and Porcupines together in the same group initially.

File: a fox.jpg (89KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 500x333px

>>26838005
>They look the same minus the color
Holy shit, you're right! I never realized that before. On an unrelated note, check out this picture I found of a fox. I had no idea there were foxes this aggressive or large!

>>26838049
Rats and mice are often identified interchangeably despite a large size difference.

>>26838012
The next fire starter could be a rhino and you faggots would say "It has horns! Like an ox! Close enough!!"

>>26838075
Next starter could be a Bison and you faggots would go 'it's not an ox! Zodiacfags BTFO!'

>>26838029
We have back and forth from initial classification because initial classification is shown to be wrong or because new standards are created. Pandas have had a back and forth because of initial studies of skeletal structure, then studies of their teeth, then finally genetic evidence.

>>26838045
This I'd actually like to hear more about. I've never heard this before, but I wouldn't put anything past those crazy Japs.

>>26837638
>implying Cyndaquil has actual quills
Putting an echidna next to animals that don't have quills either only furthers how ridiculous it is to pigeonhole Cyndaquil as an echidna.

File: download.jpg (127KB, 637x358px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 637x358px

>>26837590

No just no.

Venuasaur looks nothing like a Dimetrodon.

Venusaur is obviously a Beelzebufo.

Sceptileis probably not based on a Dilophosaurus since heliolisk is what one should look like.

>>26838110
And now, simply because of the name, Pandas are described as bears, and toys like teddy bears come in polar and panda varieties using the exact same shape despite clear differences between them.

All sorts of primates are lumped together as well as just being generic 'monkeys' as well despite members of those groups being genetically further from one another than say a dog and a fox.

Applying those to design of fantasy creatures is what one would call 'creative liberty'

All you really need to construct an abstract cow really is a large body, four legs and horns.

>>26838147
I think this poster is a literal kid. The last sentence reeks of it.

>>26838099
Well yeah, that would be correct. Bison aren't Cows. Just like how Foxes aren't Dogs. And how Echidna aren't Rats.

Tbh senpai I thought the trend for grass types were just reptiles, save the elusive chespin. Never really thought it was specifically dinosaurs

>>26838147
Heliolisk is based on the frilled lizard you ignant fuck, dilophosaurs didnt have frills on its neck except in jurrasic park.

File: 1442378624628.jpg (66KB, 500x479px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 500x479px

>>26837638
>nezumi have to be rodents

>>26838164

I think this poster is a kid his whole post reeks of it.

>>26838210
Kid indeed, mimicry confirms it.

Zodiac is real. The other ones are retarded.

File: 1466110480728.png (176KB, 512x512px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 512x512px

>>26838210
I think everyone in this fucking thread is the same fucking person because everyone in here reeks of autism.

>>26837787
Charizard is the "Flame" Pokémon, though. Idk where the "Lizard Pokémon" meme came from.

>>26838230
>Your autism is shameful, but my autism is a-okay!

File: image.jpg (38KB, 350x335px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 350x335px

>>26837787
>lizard pokemon
wew kid

>>26838178
How the fuck does it not fit the pattern. If we get 12 "close-enough" starters, are you still going to argue against it based on the creators' use of artistic license?

>>26838280
>are you still going to argue against it based on the creators' use of artistic license?
Oh, so you're the creator now? You're the one who created the fire starters, and it's your artistic license that connects unrelated animals to the zodiac?
Get your head out of your ass. Your whole argument is based on grasping at straws, and making connections where there aren't any. And now you have the audacity to speak for the actual creators?
A fox isn't a dog. An echidna isn't a rat. A dragon isn't a long.
You'd fucking say an earthworm is a snake at this point. That's how desperately you're reaching.

File: Tamaskan Dog.jpg (8KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 275x183px

>>26838029
>is basically how a lot of animals are classified

This is a wolf. Wait, no, it's a dog. A dog bred to look like a wolf, but some Husky, Malamute, and German Shepard does not a wolf make.

Therefore it is classified as a dog, wholly a dog, and not a wolf. No matter how close enough to a wolf it physically is.

>>26838320
I'll see you in gen 12, newfriend.

File: POKEMONSUNMOONCAST_.png (69KB, 251x171px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 251x171px

>>26837507
so its the wwe Championship belt then?

>>26838244
He is literally Lizardon

>>26838465
They were saying Fire Mouse = Cyndaquil so Lizard = Charizard, but Charizard is the Flame Pokémon. That's the only thing I'm questioning.

>retards still think that cyndaquil can't be the rat and fennekin can't be the dog
Fucking fucktards.

>>26838204
This
Hedgehogs, shrews, moles, and by extension echidna, aren't rodents, but fall under the nezumi label.

>>26837996
deplhox isnt a fox its a dog retard

File: 1463696831641.png (161KB, 500x313px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 500x313px

>>26838589
>implying that it is a fennec fox
>implying that is a wolverine
>implying you know biology

>>26838629
still not a dog and a mouse

>>26838667
>it's close enough when I do it!

>>26838730
You don't really understand irony, do you?

>>26837441
>Delphox and Typhlosion don't count :^)
How much of a retard can you be.
Watch the next fire starter be a Zebra and they say "Hurr durr doesn't count as a horse"

File: il_570xN.169027949.jpg (36KB, 570x452px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 570x452px

Are owls prehistoric?

>>26838828
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornimegalonyx

Grass/Ground

>>26838828
If you go look at prehistoric owls, they have long legs and walk on the ground. If Rowlet's line really does become Grass/Ground, it would fit together perfectly.

>>26838792
Ok

>>26837590
>Cyndaquil is called the Fire Mouse
So, not a rat. And it has no tail.
>Fennekin is a canine
Nope. It is not.
And, it is not a dog.

>Litten is a cat even if it's not an outright tiger
So, it is not a tiger. Well...

>They don't want to play directly into it like the same way they don't do Gray or Z but the fact that they haven't outright deviated shows they're following something.
Nope. The only pattern they follow is "not two time the same animal". That's all. Just ask someone to walk randomly, it easy after 7 step to say "yup they go in this global direction". But it's false.

Stop pushing it.

Also, wat with 13rd gen ?

>>26837591
>They don't. Cyndaquil is rodent
No it is not. It's a echnidea.
>Fennekin is a canine
No it is not. It's a vulpid.

>>26837695
This.

>>26837759
> fire ant
Well ant's look like goats, they have approximatively the same number of legs (GF doesn't have to follow strict rules), and antenna is very similar to horns ! So it loosely fits, pattern is not disproved !
> fire fairy
Well fairies are mythological, just like dragons, so it fits the dragon category. I mean come on, GF was clearly thinking about dragon but tried to avoid a charizard 2 so they juqt take the general direction and make a fairy. Also, charizard is a reptile like snake, so it falls under the snake line. Pattern is still ok !
> fire giraffe
It's totally a horse with a long neck. They're both equidae so it does check.

Actually, every mammal can fit in one zodiac category. Every animal, if we think loosely...

>>26838012
Wat is gen 13 ?

>>26841449
They've had two turtles

>>26841594
Water turtle and land tortule
> just a general direction

Or
I was just talking about fire starter, that have to be mammals
> changing rules

>>26838099
I would say "it's not a goat! Zodiacfags blown the fuck off." Since foxes are "close enogh" to dogs, then goats are also "close enough" to bisons

both are bovidae after all

>>26841649
goat would fit in with sheep since they are interchangeable in the Chinese zodiac.

For that matter all rodents and rodentlike animals were used in year of the rat imagery, much like how pheasants have been used for year of the rooster.

"close enough" is basically something that has been used in the actual zodiac.

>>26838331
he_just_threw_the_fishing_pole_in.jpg

>>26838178
>splitting hairs this hard