For any alchemyfags that are still confused as to why the firefags

People who are butthurt that he is not Fire are children that still think Sun is some sort of fucking fireball when it's FUCKING NOT. Sun has nothing to do with fire anyway you fucking retards why do you associate sun with it?! It's a GAS ball not FIRE ball you dumbfuck pick up a book you IDIOT.

As already established, pyschic is used for cosmic shit which Sun fucking is and the pokemon is based on alchemy&metal shit therefore it's steel. FIRE would not make sense because SUN has nothing to do with FIRE you RETARDS. Psychic/Steel makes sense but you guys are RETARDED!!!

I mean, Solgaleo is actively described as the beast that devours the sun. And we had the AZOTH alchemy thing in ORAS so. It's not like its out of nowhere. I still haven't heard, though, if this is the case, what the heck Lunala is supposed to be.

>>26676515
>complains pokemon is too simple and kiddy
>complains when they have to google to understand a pokemon's origin

>>26676557
>SUN has nothing to do with FIRE you RETARDS.
Le sunny day face

>I won't deny where Game Freak is coming from, but it's still stupid.

Of course! Instead of going the actual in depth, creative route, let's please the close-minded morons of 4chan and make it fire-type!

Who cares that Pyroar and Entei are already fire-type lions!? Let's make these idiots happy!

>>26676557
The game is marketed towards children you fucking manchild.

Are you actually fucking denying that you saw the first trailer and though "That's definitely not a fire type"?

Sure in reality the sun isn't fire. However, sunny day powers up fire type moves. You can't possibly deny the connection between the sun and the fire type in pokemon. Does that mean Solgaleo has to be fire type? No, just look at Groudon.

It makes real world sense, but not in game sense. The sun is consistently associated with fire type up to this point, and besides the exception of Cresselia/Darkrai, the moon has been pretty closely tied to fairy pokemon/types since even gen 1. They dropped the ball on these typings IMO.

>>26676564
>we know he's the guy who says this
>/vp/ is one person

Fuck right off.

>>26676557
>>26676560
>>26676564
I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying that I'm butthurt about it myself.

I'm saying that the target audience won't get it because they know nothing about it, and I doubt the game itself is going to tell you "oh, it's psysteel because of this one image of a lion eating the sun" or whatever.

Meanwhile, little kids who don't easily have access to Google are going to assume that the sun is fire, and get confused when Solgaleo is psysteel.

>>26676557
Technically the sun isn't a ball of gas, but plasma. Plasma may actually be closer to fire than it is gas. The main difference is the sun isn't actually fire, but a mix of heavier and lighter elements. A giant fusion reactor. But stars are technically not burning balls of gas, they are plasma.

>>26676557
Plasma ball, not gas ball.
The Sun is plasma, fire is plasma.
And while the Sun isn't technically made out of fire it is still incredibly hot. Fire is more of the heat type anyway, you have pokémon within it like Camerupt, Primal Groudon and Volcanion that has nothing to do with actual fire, just heat. And in Groudon's case it is also connected to the Sun.

>>26676620
You think kids were gonna think Palkia was Water/Dragon?

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>>26676621
>a giant fusion reactor
So you're saying that it should be Poison type, because radiactivity?

>>26676641
Okay, you got me there.

>>26676655
Victini is a nuke.
And guess what? It's Fire.

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>>26676708
Victini is the Greek goddess of victory and athletic shoewear you faggot.

>>26676560
>I still haven't heard, though, if this is the case, what the heck Lunala is supposed to be.
Lunala is possibly based around what birds in general represent in alchemy to which case they symbolize the souls journey to the spirit world.

"Firstly, let us look at the symbols in general. What did the alchemists wish to symbolize by birds? The essential thing about birds is that they, having as their domain the air element, mediate between the earthly realm and the heaven world. The alchemist in observing the flight of birds, recognized in them a picture of the human soul undergoing spiritual development.

The soul, aspiring upwards, flying free of the restraints of the earth bound body seeking the heavenly light, only to have to return to the earthly consciousness again after the meditation, the alchemist symbolized by the bird. Thus the bird symbols, in alchemy, reflect the inner experiences of soul alchemy, the soaring of the soul free from the earth bound body and the physical senses. The soul, in the meditations of soul alchemy, touches upon the spiritual world, and brings something of this back into the outer life again. The birds as symbols mediate between the physical and spiritual worlds, they reflect certain archetypal experiences encountered by the soul in its development through the alchemical process."

All of this explaining its Ghost-typing. There is one more thing to point out regarding the moon and what it symbolizes in alchemy:

"Alchemically speaking, the moon represents Silver, the Lesser Work, or Mercury. It conjoins with the sun, or Gold in the Greater Work. In more practical terms, the moon represents fertility, resurrection, occult power, immortality and intuition. The moon is a feminine property and alchemists would incorporate it with the sun (gold) to assure balance."

So this could be something to think about in terms of what it actually represents outside of just the moon.

>>26676913
Your problem, therefore, is why Lunaala is a bat and not a bird. I don't believe bats mean exactly the same thing as birds do in Alchemy, do you?

>trying to reason with patternfags and muh deepest lore kids

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>>26676750
Kek

>>26676655
Not necessarily. It creates nuclear fusion at its core, which is made up of dense elements. It doesn't necessarily release radioactivity in the same way a bomb would. But it can cause cancer, lol.

>>26676750
>guarantees victory
>immense power stored in a small physical container
>sealed away in a basement by its owners
>in murrica region
Yeah it's Nike, but a nuke too.

Gamexplain did a nice video discussing possible lore in SM regarding alchemy

>>26676557

>sun has nothing to do with fire
>the move Sunny Day boosts the power of fire-type moves

And yes I know Sunny Day also makes Solarbeam a one-turn move and helps Cherrim/Chlorophyll grass-types, but the point is that the sun has already been used in the series in relation to fire-types

In this case, Solgaleo should be Fire/Grass :^)

>>26677346
Since I won't bother watching the video if it they are just parroting info we speculated about here ever since the trailers aired, which has been the case with the other videos I have watched of them, did they actually have anything worthwhile to say about Lunala?

>>26676515
Lol, Yggdrassil was also very obscure and a lot of people still don't get it thus far.

Fuck off summer!

>>26677346
post the damn link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8llADuptdsM


I am starting to think that the villains in S/M are going to be a cult.

>>26676515
What's stupid about it is that GF wants to have their cake and simplify it too.

The lore behind Sungaleo's typing is deep and draws from multiple sources. I respect that. But at the same time it does represent the Sun version game of Gen 7, so it would also make sense to make it at least part fire.

At the same time GF is obviously interested in "casualizing" the games so as to keep the attention of children who's attention is being competed for by phone apps.

I'm not sure where I stand on this though. I feel that GF has a tall order in balancing the series for both new and old players. As long as they don't just fuck shit though, I suppose I'll be content.

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>>26676515
Why are people trying to make something simple so complicated? Solgaleo is not the sun. He eats the sun. He can't eat the sun if he is already the sun.

Lunala is not the moon either. She calls the moon. She can't call the moon if she is the moon.

If you look at "Sun" pokemon only one of them is even fire type.

Solgaleo and Lunala are "Sunne" and "Moone" respectively so they use the old timey spelling. This might mean they are not the scientific based concept we have of sun and moon. They could be the mythical, ritualistic, or fabled views people had centuries ago.

>>26677420
It's more that they only are the same animals, and nothing about them ties into the life/death/balance theme of the XYZ trio.

The idea that Zygarde's formes also are based on Loki's children is beyond retarded though.

>>26677610
If anything, perfectgarde is based off of Odin, who sacrificed his eye to obtain higher perception. The two cores have one eye each, and Zygarde needs to split itself up into pieces to monitor the ecosystem.

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>>26676515
999 Confirmed?

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That old as balls alchemy image is actually onto something when it comes to Pokémon.

Plasmaball aside...
The beast that devours the sun actually exists.
After making up so many different elements in its core, most stars (like our Sun) will innevitably produce Iron.

Iron is a very bad metal for stars. Iron drains energy, which is pretty much what stars are all about.

The consumption of energy makes them collapse and they are destroyed.

Iron IS the beast that eats the sun.

Literally EATS it by draining it.

Solgaleo even features a sort of supernova in his attack when he beams out the Sun.
It makes sense he's iron-type.

It'd be cool if he were Fire\Steel, yeah, but it's not inheritly bad that he's Steel\Psychic.
And it all makes sense this way.
And hey, it's a good way to teach kids how we're all going to die one day because a giant lion suddenly decides to eat the Sun :3
Science ftw, bitches!!!

>>26676620

The target audience paid attention at school

The target audience are not only dumb ameriburgers

>>26677602
>He can't eat the sun if he is already the sun.

Now, I'm all for the alchemical references and I believe them to be true in every way possible. But the thought process here is just messed up.

When we're dealing with abstract concepts such as references, hints and generally mythical things, we don't go and say stuff like the sun can't eat itself, or that the moon can't call itself.

For example, think of a sun becoming a white dwarf and ultimately a black dwarf. That is the sun eating itself.

Think now of the moon seing its reflection in a pond and calling out to the only existance that ever resembled it. This is the moon calling out to itself.

I mean, yeah, sure. But your logic is flawed and invalid.

>>26676515
Why the hell does it have to make sense in the frist place?
It's Pokemon, it ain't gonna explain shit.

The sun is not a ball of fire and plasma is not fire either. Go choke on a dick, you uneducated swines.

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>>26676515
Yes, i see the problem.

>>26680155
All right then. Explain why Solgaleo is weak to the thing it's supposed to be eating then.

>>26680179
Why are you weak to eating uncleaned puffer fish?

>>26680179
Did you NOT fucking read >>26680003
?????

>>26680218
Read again.

>>26680179
Because the weakness chart's a bitch, that's why

>>26680218
That's all fine and dandy, but the type weakness chart still says fire melts steel.

Solgaleo's jaw should be melting off.

>>26680241
Solgaleo should had a ability that resists fire and dark

>>26680306
Nope
He gets renamed clear body

Plasma is an as yet undiscovered type that is NVE against and weak to steel.

Because the sun is a psychic ball of steel

>>26680109
The sun has no steel on it either so stop repeating like a brainless parrot what you read on these threads and use your brain.

>>26676515
The disgusting font choice makes me pick the left one

Also, actual concept work > obvious first choice

It's clear that op is a complete pleb both in taste and in mentality

>>26676557
>look at my High-school tier physics knowledge

Are you also the kind of moron that complains about the "impossible feats" on capeshigt movies to feel smart on the internet?

Daily reminder that the emissary of the sun is weak to fire.

>b-but there's no fire in the sun

Then I guess grass pokemons can walk on the sun since it's fire what they are weak to and not extreme heat according to your retarded logic

>muh alchemy shows it eating the sun
>It's fucking weak to fire and by extension fares poorly in sunny weather
Honestly I have no problem with it being a fire type, but its senseless to make it weak to fire. Unless the ability ends up actually having a 'resist fire' side effect along with the clear body effect, you can't say it's not a stupid typing.

>>26680659
*not being a fire type, my mistake

>>26676515
The problem is not that it's not Fire. It's that it's weak to it.
>But the sun is heat
Heat is heavily associated with fire anyway. If it's supposed to represent the purification of metal how come an old bell with the same typing can avoid the fire weakness but the embodiment of the alchemic purification can't? I fucking love Solgaleo but they fucked up hard with the weakness.

>>26680643
Emissary
noun, plural emissaries.
1.
a representative sent on a mission or errand

I can be an emissary of a gun dealer but i'm still weak to being shot at.

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>Game Freak puts a lot of effort into the lore of the Legends, after complaints of over-saturation/lackluster Legends in the past two Gens
>Now people are complaining that they shouldn't have bothered, and kept it basic

Are you guys for fucking real?

What bugs me is that people will argue against the alchemy theme to the death, but when the Norse theme was brought up for XY's trio it was accepted stupidly easily, little kids understanding what it meant be damned.

>>26680733
It's literally just the typing being weak to fire that's getting them riled up. Lunala sees nowhere near as much nerd rage.

>>26680179
Grass type ;V

Stop. All of you stop right now.
You're all idiots, even the one's who think they've got it.

The sun is not fire? You're right, it's not burning the same way fire on earth does (which is combustion). Yes this has been covered already because people can use wikipedia pretty well these days when they want to sound intelligent. Let's take a look at the design composition of the pokemon Slugma. This pokemon isn't made out of pure combustion is it? No that's silly, it's based on Nuclear Fission.

Now there's some people who get angry at other people for not knowing that the sun is fire as we know it. However you can't really be angry at people for expecting Solgaleo to be a fire type. Why? Because the fire typing is a generalization of things associated to "heat". The sun is definitely hot, and it can definitely cause combustion - explain forest fires etc. Those are caused by the dryness of forests and intense heat during summer droughts. None of that would be possible without the sun's heat.

Ok so the sun is out of the way, why didn't they choose to make Solgaleo the obvious fire type? Ah you see, you may want to call Pokemon a childrens game and you aren't wrong. However the target audiance for pokemon is a very broad range, it's just that children are the larger age group and so more sales will go towards them. Not all children are under 8 you know? A 9 year old can understand and research how these pokemon came to exist and why would that be a bad thing? It's education.

They chose the typing Psychic and Steel for good reason, it presents questioning and it's done it very well for us too - US meaning adults and teens on vp. Pretty sure we know why Psychic was chosen, but Steel? First the concepts are created, and by concepts I don't mean art, I mean ideas either in written language or imagination. "Oh hey cool, guys what if we made the next box legendaries based on the sun and moon!" it starts there and develops further.

>>26680702
Bad analogy since the gun dealer is also weak to shots.

>>26676515
i dont see the problem. regardless of the reasoning behind the legendary's design theme, considering literally every pokemon is some sort of a pun, most of them just go completely under the radar.

>>26677828
Appearance isn't EVERYTHING, anon.

>>26680714
Yes anon, /vp/ is a singular contraditory hive-mind, not a a mass of individuals that might have variable opinions.

Dumbass

>>26680775
Well opinions can be wrong, and this thread is an example of that.

Dumbass.

>>26680774
Appearance is literally the only thing that slightly connects the XYZ trio to Norse mythology if anything at all.

>>26680780
What makes your subjective opinion somehow more correct than mine?

Ice burning and that does not mean it is fire

>>26680306
>and dark

fire would be enough. flash fire would have been very interesting on it, if it had a lot of fire moves at its disposal. it wouldve been the first time we've seen something like that.

>>26680786
People getting their autism in a twist because Game Freak didn't make Solgaleo Fire type, and decided to create lore about Alchemy instead?

It's much more interesting, and yet people complain. I don't care, those opinions are shit and wrong.

>>26680786
You can say it's an opinion that water is bad, but it doesn't mean it's either or, because it is a basic human need.

>>26676935
according to dicksuckology it's a bat because something something myth you've never heard of proves it that way


stop being so uncultured anon it's common sense

>>26680003
>>26676557
Is this board filled with children?

>>26676621
>Plasma

> N is coming back to save the plot again

Thank god

>>26680803
>Is this board filled with children?
Yeah the guys you quoted are either children or simply falseflaggers.

>>26680792
Do you have any objective study as of why is much more interesting for Solgaleo to be alchemy relarted than being star nuclear-reaction related? Or is that your own subjective view of what is interesting and what is not that you're basing on and that goes to show you're full of shit when you call other people's opinions "wrong?"

>>26680179
Because it's going to lose the fire weakness in its Syncro form with the player

>>26680766
*isn't fire as we know it
sorry.

So the idea develops further because as we know there are no pokemon based on a single concept. They're not going to just stop at sun, they took it into something interesting, something historical, something mythological etc and they pokemonized it. They did it with XYZ, they did it in B/W... You get the idea. So the whole "sun moon" idea didn't have to BEGIN with those concepts, it could have been alchemy to begin with. But what part of alchemy is it? They're loosely based on Magnum Opus - the 4 stages of creating the philosophers stone, and also other alchemical symbols and meanings such as "the beast who x". So I'll start with Magnum Opus, because it's not getting through to people over the "beast" we've discussed too much.

Magnum Opus main phases:
Nigredo (putrefaction, blackening)
Albedo (cleansing, purifying, whitening, reflecting sunlight, silver, moon)
Citrinitas (empowering, consuming the sunlight, yellowing)
Rubedo (Reddening, the colour of life, alchemical success)

You can see that Solgaleo and Lunala have a great matchup here, and then even Magearna has a spot. Magearna clearly has a philosophers stone at its core and would Represent Rubedo and with its name incorporating "Mag" from Magnum Opus.

The beast who devours the sun is metaphoric in 2 senses. The beast is ignorant and impure, it consumes from the greater being called the sun which represents knowledge and purity. This way the more the lion consumes, the more wisdom it attains and thus the more "pure" and enlightened it becomes. This can also be used to describe the phase Citrinitas. Steel should be weak to the sun and heat, because that's essentially what's greater than it.

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>>26680822
and remember, Norse mythology has its own beasts, children of Fenrir.

Same kind of people complain about granbull being a fairy.

>>26680844
and what, Malamar not being water type?

>>26680822
Going back to the Manum Opus phases.

Each phase has a ton of metaphoric shit going on too. For example Albedo is feminine and "fluid", Citrinitas is masculine and "firm". They each respectively represent the spiritual realm, physical realm and opposition to each other. Rubedo is the "joining" of both opposites in marriage and unity, something you would have never thought could be possible.

There's some theories that Lunala represents Nigredo, but that actually wouldn't make much sense as it's calling upon the moon. But there's a lot of play in the name Marshadow, with mar meaning serpent, marriage, obstructing, it could very well work for both Nigredo and Rubedo. Nigredo in the terms serpent (representing putrefaction) and to obstruct due to blackness. For Rubedo it would work for being an eclipse and a symbol of marriage. Shadow works in both aspects, however nothing jumps out as being "red" for this phase. Why would Mar be followed by shadow if it was alchemical success? It should be Marubedo or something. So it's pretty safe to assume Marshadow represents Nigredo, which would mean Lunala would have to represent Albedo.

>>26677602
underrated post

>>26680888
Underrated post confirmed.

>>26680888
Honestly, Im the one who just wrote the fucking essay up there but this is pretty much how I ACTUALLY feel. But I do find the whole alchemy thing really neat (and it's screaming alchemy with the "beast" and third eyes and stuff desu), so it's nice to discuss it anyway. Especially when people start going off about the sun not being fire and being plasma crap. Fire pokemon don't HAVE to be combustion based, just as sun pokemon don't have to BE the sun. It's just, how does solgaleo EAT the sun and is weak to fire? There was a great explanation for it and GF gave us the push we needed by using "the beast who devours the sun" as the lore.

>>26680950
yeah, I like it

>>26680803
>being this buttblasted over being proven false

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>>26680844
>Why is the "Fairy Pokemon" since Gold/Sliver even a Fairy type?
Those kind of people seriously need help.

>>26677602
So the sun and moon are actually NOT sun and moon? My life is a lie

>>26677393
Sunny Day is called Clear Sky in Japan and boosts moonlight too so Solgaleo & Lunala should both be Fairy/Dark :^)

I am excited for all the Italian Pokémon, picking water. I have a feeling there will be a lot of fire types

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sI0Fl8wR68

>>26676557

Fucking retard. Lava themed pokemon aren't made of fire either but they're still fucking fire type.

Sometimes I think that for a design succeed must be empty and without complex details. It's unbelievable that all the smart details receive much hatred.

The only thing you want are designs without any creativity.

Hasn't the night and the moon had ties to souls since soulsilver, technically? Namely, Lugia being tied to the night in terms of the starting screen, appearing against the moon, the name of the game as well? I mean, just because it could be relevant now, why soul silver? Just the first time I ever heard of a connection between souls and silver.

>>26676515
>the target audience of this school does not understand math, so we should not teach math.

>>26681663
It's referencing its Egg Group dipshit.
Or do you think all members of the Fairy Egg Group should be Fairy type, and all the members of the Dragon Egg Group Dragon?

>>26682504
Egg groups should be visible but for some shitty reason don't

>>26681895
You're the kind of faggots that defends Vanilluxe because "hurrdurr it has a theme of ice cream and regular ice, SO CLEVER!!!11"

screencap this. an in-game event will cause solgaleo and lunaala to fuse into arceus

>>26676750
i'd fuck that goddess

>>26677298
I just realized that you literally only have to change a single letter to turn Nike to nuke.

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>>26682504
>Or do you think all members of the Fairy Egg Group should be Fairy type, and all the members of the Dragon Egg Group Dragon?
Of course not retard. Because a good majority of them don't have their egg group names as their species classification. People can know Granbull is a Fairy without looking at it's egg group.

>>26676577
>Who cares that Pyroar and Entei are already fire-type lions!? Let's make these idiots happy?

>what is metagross / beldum / metang / mega metagross
>what is bronzong / bronzor

I love how people whose entire knowledge about alchemy comes from a pokemon website feel entitled to educate people on the topic.

>>26682733
No, I'm the kind of players that like the designs and don't want just a dragon with edgy face.

Enjoy your permanent rage.

>>26676515
So the problem is that you are a child?
Otherwise I don't see any problems. We are all (hopefully) adults here. I myself didn't know about the azoth shit, then i saw some vids and did some researchs and now I got it. You can do the same, unless you are an underage retarded fag yourself.

>>26682990
>You are not an adult if you disagree with me

>>26682847
>what is metagross / beldum / metang / mega metagross
>what is bronzong / bronzo
Not Psychic/Steel Lions?

>>26676557
>It's a GAS ball not FIRE ball you dumbfuck pick up a book you IDIOT.
The Sun isn't made of gas. That's about as wrong as saying the sun is made of fire.

>>26676610
>>26677393
>The sun is consistently associated with fire type up to this point
Counterpoint: neither Doom Desire nor Solar Beam are fire-type moves, despite both being about sunlight.

>>26682800
How is having your fairy group named Fairy any different than having your species Fairy?

>>26683240
>fairy group
Well fuck, meant egg group.

>>26676515
Here you go you fucking nerds:

http://aminoapps.com/page/pokemon/4956474/alchemy-science-and-the-lion-the-basis-of-solgaleo

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>Lugia lives under water
>it's a water type
>Stunfisk lives in the water
>it's a water type

>>26676750
I fucking hated that card.

Lol let's steal everything.

>>26676515

>Implying GF gives two shits about whether 8 year olds fully understand references to myths and legends
>Especially after making Dolly the Sheep references, Simurgh, thunderbird and slavic firebird pokemon, Foo Lion pokemon, a literal hoho, Ryujin/plesiosaur combo pokemon, elemental braille golems, the Leviathan, behemoth and ziz trio, aeon dragons, dryads and tanabata festival comets, the imperial regalia pixies, space, time, antimatter and fucking demiurges, sea angels, hedgehogs that don't time travel, Morpheus and Selene, Tao dragons, french musketeers, hurricanes and thunder and earthquakes, The destruction and renewal of nature, and Yggdrasil.

They could go full NGE and it wouldn't be the furthest reach they've made.

>>26683340
>They could go full NGE and it wouldn't be the furthest reach they've made.
ROW ROW
F I G H T T H E P O W E R

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seriously, what the fuck gamefreak?

I'm all for the Alchemy basis defending the reason why Solgaleo is Psychic/Steel type, but honestly sometimes I can't ignore the contradictions the pro-type defenders indirectly bring up.

For example, the whole >Sun is not actually a ball of fire argument. That's all interesting, but it makes you ask "by that logic, should Sun inspired Pokes like Volcarona have its fire type removed?"

>>26683462
I think I'm in the same boat as you. The way I see it the Steel type is from alchemy and possibly the nermean lion too. So looking at Solgaleo from a lion standpoint it makes sense, which is all it needs as long as it is incorporated into its design and concept.
I think it is very important to understand the difference between the pokémon itself and what it represents, and to an lesser extent what it is based on.
So saying that Fire wouldn't make sense for a sun themed pokémon because it's not "technically" fire is dumb. But the sun being hot was just potentially just a theme they didn't want to focus on with Solgaleo, it isn't the sun, it just represents it and for all we know it might not have any control over heat at all.

>>26683462
The argument is more
>Sun inspired and related mons don't HAVE to be fire type

In fact, literally none but Volcarona are, if I recall correctly. In fact, there's two that are Psychic. Should Solgaleo have been like Volcarona? I'd say no, because it looks like it's not literally supposed to be the sun, avoiding the whole "Sun is (not) made of fire 2.22" but something related to it mythologically. It seems to be going back to the Gen I and II concepts of just being super powerful Pokemon, not embodiments of natural forces. It's not entirely wrong to say "hot = fire," given that Volcarona is said to act as a replacement sun and given Flame Body. But again, Solgaleo is merely Sun theme adjacent. Should it be Steel? I'm more ambivalent here. The design really doesn't seem to need it. I don't particularly care that it's weak to fire. If the alchemy thing ends up playing out, I'd be more satisfied with it, but at this point I could take it or leave it.

This is all just farting in the wind until we see how it all plays out in game anyway.

Perhaps it's SUPPOSED to be weak to the sun/light (Fire-types) just as Lunala is weak to the moon/darkness (Dark-types)

>>26683673
I don't understand how Lunala being weak to Dark is a problem at all.
Like realistically the moon isn't particularly weak to cheap tricks, and darkness is well, just lack of light.
From a symbolic standpoint it actually makes sense that it is weak to Dark, if you go with literal darkness that is. The Moon is nearly always portrayed as at its strongest during a full moon, when it is fully illuminated, and at its weakest when you can't see it at all, being covered by the Earth's shadow.

>>26683767
I never said it was a problem, just that it's possibly a theme the two have.

>>26683783
It was more of a tangent since I have seen plenty of people who thinks that. I was actually trying to add to your point but I could have been more clear.

>>26680768
Stars eat each other as well. They are not immune to mutual influence

>>26676515
God forbid the kids actually try to educate themselves on something other than
>FIRE = HOT!
>HOT = SUN!
>SUN = FIRE!
Also the kids should have learned that fire can't survive without oxygen in those mandatory fire safety lectures and going by that logic come to the conclusion that the sun isn't fire because there's no oxygen in space.

>>26684578
goto
>>26677393
and
>>26680643

How about get over it. Seriously who gives shit, it's a children's game, be an adult and accept whatever the game offers or stop playing.

>>26684680
What do those posts have to do with anything?
Other than the fact that they're trying to justify their retardation with extreme leaps in logic.

>>26684578
Are you going to say that Camerupt and Heatran should be retyped too, because they aren't connected to literal fire?

Also your "research" is incorrect. Fire can exist without oxygen. Any other strong oxidizer will suffice, oxygen is just the most common by far.

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>>26684682
Why are you even here if you dislike the atmosphere of this discussion? Please fuck off.

>>26684718

How is Sunny Day being Fire type a leap in logic?

Personally, I find it interesting that they are making more references to things that aren't very well known. Pardon my thirst for interesting things, but I appreciate the pokemon that make me look up what the inspirations are. It could lead to some learning opportunities.

Why does it have to be dumbed down? It's ridiculous. Read a book.

>>26683660

Neither Espeon or Sunflora's design are inspired like the sun unlike Volcarona

>>26684879
>Why does it have to be dumbed down?
Americans

>>26684929
Neither is Solgaleo what's your point?

>>26684996
I mean, I guess the main is kinda sun like. With a set of rays in a circular formation. Got that sun symbol too.

Still, it's also not supposed to substitute for the actual sun like Volcarona either.

>>26684983
So retards like you :^)

>>26676637
>fire is plasma

/vp/ everyone

>>26685051
I said Americans anon.

>>26684823
Not him, but this discussion has happened every day it feels.

IT IS NOT THE SUN, IT EATS THE SUN.

THIS IS A METAPHOR FOR A SOLAR ECLIPSE.

This thread is dumb.

>>26685082
It's ironic of you to say that when fire is in the plasma state. That's a fact.

>>26676515
The only problem I see is a lack of creativity on the right.

>>26676620
what kid nowadays doesnt have access to google?

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Based on this actually.

>>26676515
>Raikou based on Raijin

>Thundurus based on Raijin

vintage gamefreak

>>26685308
Raikou is raiju, which is a beast. Thundurus is Raijin which is a flying clouded god.
In fact it is said that raiju is Raijin's companion

>>26683454

don't make me bust a kappa in you esse

What if the sun does Electric-type damage?

>>26684718
only nerds like you talk about the logic behind pokemon.

normal people just think it's a shitty concept to make it psychic/steel. People trying to bring scientific arguments to this discussion make me cringe.

>>26685599
So you're retarded then.

>all type resistances and weaknesses must align with a pokemon's origin

>a pokemon's typing must be easily identifiable just by looking at it

There's absolutely no reason to try to perfectly explain a pokemon's attributes just on their inspiration alone. Please note, I said perfectly

>>26683340
>Dolly the Sheep references
They didn't do that because it was too problematic.

>>26685729
Like Lileep being a grass/rock-type and Shelmet being a bug-type?

>>26685040
Volcarona's design was based on looking like the sun symbolically. It brought light and warmth to people, being an insect and creating light within its body isn't something new - glow worms etc. However it's a fire type because it can cause combustion, and who knows what its internal organs are like or what heat it contains within itself. It did in fact through lore replace the sun, but in an indirect way - it was its own sun and not the sun we know. A substitute, like how we have fireplaces, animals, hot water bottles, other living creatures to provide us warmth. It just so happens that it can also illuminate itself and they decided to make it fire type because why not?

Solgaleo is in the same boat so-->>26683462
If you read the correct posts in here you would learn that the fire type isn't just about combustion, it's about nuclear fission, fusion,heat energy, radiation, physical light etc.

This is like saying that Vaporeon shouldn't be a water type because in its natural form its not just water? Or Lapras because it also isn't.

The reason solgaleo is weak to fire probably has nothing to do with anything, it was just a coincidence. Let's get real the typing have never 100% made sense ever and they existed before solgaleo. But they wanted to create a steel emissary of the sun, which can be made of anything so long as its somehow symbolic in some way. Steel was a great choice, especially in terms of lore and in terms of critical thinking. Again, it makes people think, why was it not the obvious fire type it should have been? There are many, many arguments for BOTH sides. But if they were and are going for alchemical reasoning or lore, or even some literal physical properties of our reality and sun then steel would be the best choice. If they were to be going off mythological deities and direct representation of the sun in our reality (as in thee actual sun and not an emissary, representative or symbol) then yes fire would make more sense. TBC

>>26683454
top kek

>>26683454
Saying that you have never heard of Kappa in Japan is the same as saying that you have never heard of Red Riding Hood in the west.

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>>26685797

Volcarona's wings are based on sunspots.

>>26685842
Then it should be electric/steel

>>26676515
Are we just going to ignore all the other Pokemon that are also based off of obscure mythology, like Mawile or Froslass?

>>26685797
I don't mean that the sun is literally fire in terms of combustion. But it is fire type in terms of heat etc. People would argue that there is steel within the sun, but that doesn't change the fact that it's the hottest bloody thing in our solar system and it doesn't matter how or why, fire type is based on heat, radiation, friction, fusion, explosions ETC.

So yeah, Solgaleo IS an emissary, an ally, a representative, a symbol. It's not THEE sun, so it doesn't have to be fire? And as for it consuming the sun there's a great explanation for it here. Where the beast is ignorant and impure so it consumes knowledge from the greater being aka the sun. The sun purifies the lion and therefore at some point the metals sort of become a second "sun", it may not have to be hot, it may not have to be fire. But it's a metaphor that the metal and the sun are now the same thing because it's allowed the sun to penetrate its body and fill it with wisdom and purity. The sun is now within the beast in a new form.

Steel being weak to fire may just be coincidental, like I said. But it would make sense for the lion to be weak to the greater being it's consuming from - The sun is actually winning in the battle. However steel was always weak to fire, and on a realistic level that doesn't entirely make sense but I'm guessing it's to do with metals having no convection and better conduction. They retain heat and it gets to much higher levels, thus hitting critical points and hurting the "Spirit" that animates the steel a pokemon is made of.

I know it's a big complicated mess, but I think it's amazing. Just my 2c.

>>26685825
Then why isn't there Red Riding Hood Pokémon?

Technically the sun isn't made of the steel either. The heaviest element inside it is cobalt.

>>26685858
Because Pokémon is from Japan.

>>26685842
There are literally thousands of moths and insects with spots on their body. To single out one specific trait of the sun to suit the pokemon is a bit ridiculous. I mean yes, it supports volcarona further as being symbolic of the sun still, which is good for its lore. But what I'm trying to say here is that there's never just one answer when it comes to pokemon. They're comprised of more than just one element (design wise), they sometimes even have more than 10 possible elements.

Dwarf Star ;^)

>>26676515
Memento mori, if the nineth lion ate the sun.

>>26676620
>Meanwhile, little kids who don't easily have access to Google

Any kid who doesn't have access to google probably doesn't have access to pokemon.

They do, however, have access to polio and malaria.

>>26676620
>little kids who don't easily have access to Google

What year are you living in?

>>26683462
Probably because the legendaries are based on the concept of Spiritus, Anima, and Corpus, which were related to the sun, moon, and fifth element respectively. Each of the three also corresponded with a primary goal of alchemy. Anima, soul, was the goal of transmuting metals, such as lead into gold. Spiritus, spirit, was creating life. Corpus, body, represented the ultimate medicine (which is what the elixir of youth/philosopher's stone were).

Hence metal, ghost, and probably something like fairy for the third.

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>>26685886
Where kids are more capable of learning new things unlike American kids who hear someone say that the Sun isn't fire and proceed to imprison them for heresy just like Galileo?

>Sun is hot
>Fire is hot
And yet, by that logic, Solgaleo would be a Fire type. But it isn't.

Also this, >>26676557 although plasma (another state of matter), not gas.

:^)

>>26680775
They never once, NEVER ONCE, said /vp/. They said people.

So why don't you shove it up your ass you fucking faggot. You don't get to hide behind me not agreeing with you when someone calls you out on being a dumb faggot. You don't get to point at me and say "Look, see him!? /vp/ is made up of many viewpoints! SO STOP CRITICIZING ME!"

>>26676515
Solgaleo has no reason to be fire type. Its is inspired by the lion that devours the sun, not the sun itself. This isn't another palkia/dialga. Get that through your tiny head.

>>26676515

Pokemon don't have to be based on the obvious you fucking idiot.

>>26686062
>This isn't another palkia/dialga.
God, they were the worst.

>>26686112
Yeah, but Giratina's distortion world was fucking baller.

>>26685848
underrated post

>>26686217
Criminally underutilized though.

>>26686238
agreed

>>26685983
Another state of matter or not, it produces and radiates massive amounts of heat. Again, there are fire types based on fission, combustion and fusion.

It is still accurate to believe that a sun pokemon should be a fire type based on its thermal based properties. But yes, it is based on alchemy which is more to do with metals, which I don't think some people are processing very well.

>>26676515
the sun is was created all elements up to iron (a lot of metals) so steel type makes for sense than fire. The sun isn't even made of fire, what are you a child? If so, leave 4chan. The sun is nuclear fusion of helium and is made of plasma, so if anything it would make more sense for Solgaleo to be psychic and electric type not psychic and fire type. Just because something is hot, it ain't fire.

>>26686062
I never understood why the fuck palkia and dialga were water and steel type.

>>26676515
So, you're saying that the basis for creating a Pokemon should be a shallow concept that requires no thought instead of something interesting. Got it.

>>26676655
Radiation is poisonous, not POISON. People these days are imbeciles. :(

>>26680003
Finally! Someone who actually understands their science!

>>26676515
once again.
Steel is Light type in Pokemon.
Sun should be Light type so its Steel
Psychic in Pokemon means - From Space
So... Its part psychic.

>>26685983
Plasma is just a state of matter, and the one fire usually takes.
The plasma the sun is mad of is not fire though.

>>26686394
It's actually closer to being electricity.

>>26686334

Space=volume->liquid->water

Time is one dimension and its direction and speed is fixed->solid->steel.. That or clocks lol

Giratina represents the gaseous state of matter, ghost type fits best as well as fitting the whole underworld theme of it

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>>26686406
What? The plasma the sun is mad of? That nuclear fusion, which isn't particularly close to either electricity or combustion.
Anyway, see pic related, many phenomena take a plasma state.

I think it's a cool reference. It being a fire-type is just predictable and basic. Are you really defending casuals and retards?

>>26686409
>Space=volume->liquid->water
What are you smoking? Every matte of state has a volume.

Time isn't fixed, it's relative, although you are correct that direction seems to be.

It's just
>pearls are found in the ocean - Water
>diamonds are really hard - Steel
>antimatter is weird - Ghost
Then you can add in that they may represent the states liquid, solid and gas, but that has no connection to their space and time theme, and your derivations are insane.

>>26686451
I was saying that electricity is closer to being like that of the plasma that the sun is made out of more that fire and your chart proves that, as lighting is hotter than fire and has a higher charged particle density like that of the sun. I merely said electricity was "closer", not "close"; suggesting that it would make more sense to make it electric type than fire type. I already made a post on nuclear fusion and even linked that to being how that could of inspired them to make Solgaleo a steel type, so please don't get me started on that shit again.

>>26686409
This is extremely retarded.

Wouldn't be surprised if Solgaleo got an alternate forme in which it gains a partial Fire typing. Might represent it having reached a sort of ideal state after having "consumed the sun" and gained 'similar' properties or something.

>>26676515

The mistake is that people think the Lion suddenly is the sun

Except it's not

The game is fucking telling you it wants to devour it

>>26686520
>weird
weird is reserved for psychic types

I really don't give a shit about the typing but those "le sun is not le fire" fags need to shut their reverse assholes.

>>26686926
just no. no. no nonononono

>>26686926
SHUT UP. Shutupshutupshutup SHUT UUUUUUUUUUP

Fuck off. Seriously, just fuck off my /vp/. I'm tired off you trolls, digimonfags and genwunners always, AALWAYS, making fun off pokemon. No. Nuh-uh, just no. Stop it. Just get the fuck outta here if you don't like it. Nobodys forcing you to stay here with us real fans. Pokemon is fucking based. It literally changes lives. I still remember the christmas morning when my mom gave me my first game and I got to delve into the magical Sinnoh... Holy... Fuck... The feels... The joy... A lonely kid salvaged from aloneness. IT's undescribely. I can honestly say pokemon saved my life. And if you're gonna insult it, then get ready to be fucking destroyed by me.

>>26686687
>>26686409
>>26686520

First to those who think it's retarded, I'm guessing you've never seen donnie darko?
http://www.donniedarko.org.uk/philosphy-of-time-travel/

Go down to "water and metal"

Anyway...

Besides that they represent the 3 states of matter, solid, liquid and gas.

Dialga being the solid represents a fixed entity that is able to go back and forth through time without being affected.

Palkia is all about the matter of the universe, as the universe is just a big soup mix.

Giratina is the antimatter, or the contrasting plane of existence which includes spirit and dreams.

I know it's not directly related to Donnie Darko, but it's found in a lot of text that time travel is based on steel and water, giratina doesn't belong on our plane of existence so it being ghost makes sense. All of this is just metaphorical ramblings, but it just is what it is.

>>26686974
The sun is part fire. Get mad autismo.

This is like saying don't you see why they don't understand evolution it's much easier to think a man in the sky made us rather than we were once fish

>>26686991
Also to clarify, time doesn't exist and it truly is an illusion. To explain:

We measure time by how many of this can happen within how many of that. It's relative like someone said up there but it is directional. Space and matter = Time anyway. No matter what the same amount of matter and energy is within the universe at every given point of "time". Meaning that time is actually irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and we're all infinite and exist at every point in different forms. All it takes is for our matter and energy to be reconstructed as it is now exactly at some point and bam we're alive again with the same thoughts and memories. So matter = Time. It's just all about how relevant one process of a reaction is to another process of a reaction and how relevant that is to us in our limited life as a whole living human.

>>26686991
Cool stuff. I've always found the themes surrounding Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina to be among the most straightforward and down-to-Earth ideas among the Legendaries. The seemingly not-so-straightforwardness of Solgaleo's (and perhaps Lunala's) themes are pretty interesting too, though, to say the least.

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>>26687041
>autismo
mfw you fell for the copypasta bait

>>26687098
Good lord. I'm glad you're not a scientist with the superficial bullshit you spout.

>>26687098
>Time is an illusion
should of left your explanation there... instead of going into that bs...

>>26687098
Please learn what the fuck entropy is, and why it is statistically impossible for the universe to line up exactly the same way as it did in the past.

>>26680179
Maybe it's just really bad at its job

>>26677602
How can he eat the sun if the sun is super effective against him?

>>26680740
Lunala is weak to dark types, the moon is at it's most visible in the night. Both typings are retarded.

>>26687545
Well, it hasn't eaten it so far, so it all checks out.