Does anyone find it vaguely sexist that Gamefreak kept 'Red'

FRLG didn't change anything. Red was still the canon protag of those games.

Poor Vaporeon. It didn't evolve fins to be subjected to that kind of treatment. Please release that darling creature into a more comfortable environment for it, and everything will be all right.

Epic

>>26548942
They're not retconning anything, you're not using that word right. Leaf was never canonically established as the Champ. Red is the only canon player character. In every other game, the gender of the player character is not canon.

>>26548942
>sexist
Fucking people calling everything sexist these days.

>presumably you selected Leaf
Those are some baseless assumptions there.

The difference is that Red is his own character. Blue/Green, whatever you want to call her, never appeared in the games or series beyond Pokemon Adventures, and in Pokemon Adventures never beat the Elite Four. I know that they're separate cannons, but Red is canonically the "champion" of the series.

Trolling aside I wouldn't have minded a second superboss.

>>26548949
>>26548973

So what make Red's journey more canon? Why are Leaf's life experiences de-legitimized, when at the end of FRLG, she will literally be registered in the Hall of Fame just the same way as if the playable character were assigned male?

>>26548981
So if one selected Lyra in HGSS but Red in FRLG, then the vice versa (Ethan/Leaf) is just as plausible.

>>26548986
Pokemon Adventures is about as canon as the anime. Most gym leaders in Pokemon Adventures as Ghetsis-tier evil.

>>26549006
no trolling, i just find plotholes very problematic.

I'm not calling it sexist, because he was in GSC and they were trying to make it true to the originals, but I wouldn't have minded if it used the dongle function similar to the memory link in BW2. If you have a copy of FRLG in the game with Leaf as your main, Leaf would be the champ instead of Red.

>>26548942
>vaguely sexist
>identified
Pls make the b8 less obvious next time

>>26549038
that would be a progressive step, but why should the presumption be made that the player chose Red in FRLG, a presumption that must be rebutted by presenting actual hardware?

>>26549039
>oh no, the 's' word! get lost sjw, just let me enjoy mah games

pls, you don't understand the issues at stake.

>>26548942
Male protag is always the canon protag

>>26549087
Red in HGSS is not the same as the player character in FRLG. The HGSS Red should be considered as an individual character as opposed to "this is me from another game". Because how silly does "the final boss is MYSELF" sound.

Going off 'Red is a canon character', Red has always been the one waiting for you at the top of Mt. Silver. Simple as that.

Game is about to be three generations old. Why is this only coming up now anyway.

>>26548942

Is HGSS post-game canon?

>>26549145
>Red in HGSS is not the same as the player character in FRLG. The HGSS Red should be considered as an individual character as opposed to "this is me from another game".
But HGSS is literally set three years after FRLG. Are we seriously meant to believe that the legendary trainer on Mt. Silver is not the protagonist from FRLG, just somewhere with exactly the same background as him and who managed to emulate the exact same feats.

>Because how silly does "the final boss is MYSELF" sound.
You're not literally the protagonist, you're simply following their narrative. Video Games are basically CYOA gamebooks with flashy graphics. Like in Fire Emblem 6, you were the son of the protagonist of Fire Emblem 7.

>Game is about to be three generations old. Why is this only coming up now anyway.
It's never too late to deconstruct historical injustices.

>>26549193
*just someone

>>26549087
Then it becomes more problematic when the game has to decide whether to face Red or Leaf. Do they ask you who to fight? Do they include both? Is it random? What would your solution be, anon?

>>26549145
>Game is about to be three generations old. Why is this only coming up now anyway.

Newfag alert. This was an issue before the game was even released. It has been a continuing point of controversy for years.

>>26549087
>>26549193
>non-issues are issues
>historical injustices
Go away

>>26549247
Gender of the player character would be my choice.

>>26549247
>Then it becomes more problematic when the game has to decide whether to face Red or Leaf. Do they ask you who to fight? Do they include both? Is it random? What would your solution be, anon?

My solution was presented in the OP: it should be presumed that the player has assigned gender to their characters consistently over the games. So if they chose Lyra in HGSS, it should be presumed they chose Leaf in FRLG.

>>26549247
>This was an issue before the game was even released. It has been a continuing point of controversy for years
Literally the first I have heard of this in the 6 years this game has been out

>>26549269
But I choose the PC based on which one I like the look of, not based on what I identify as.

I would've kept Red as the Boss, and given Leaf a role in another sidequest.

>>26549193
>historical injustices
>in a Pokemon game
>in a game that has no importance in the real world
Good thing there exists people like you to get flustered over "issues" like this. Who knows what the world will be like without you.

>>26549269
I don't feel that's a fair assumption. I chose Hilda in White and Nate in White 2, because I felt those characters fit the stories better than Hilbert and Rosa. That's just my personal preference, not saying anyone else is wrong for using anyone else. So what if I want to use Leaf in FRLG and Ethan in HGSS? How is your solution any better than Gamefreak just assuming everyone chose Red?

>>26549193
>managed to emulate the exact same feats
Is it explicitly mentioned anywhere in the game that Red actually performed said feats? That's just an assumption on the player's part. All we really know about Red is that he hangs out on top of Mt. Silver and has a team consisting of Pikachu, Lapras, Snorlax and the Kanto starters. Nobody mentions anything about him anywhere.

>Roy in Fire Emblem
Doesn't this just kind of support my point that Red is a character in his own right? The narrative dictates that you fight Red at Mt. Silver: you're simply following what they wrote.

Seems silly to acknowledge this in one breath then flip about and go "but the narrative should change to suit my personal beliefs" in the next.

>>26549247
>Newfag

Not all that new. I used to be a regular here but left it behind when I got tired of some of the shit going on at the time. During the time I was a regular I've never once heard this being an issue mentioned.

>>26548942
Sage

>>26549349
>I don't feel that's a fair assumption. I chose Hilda in White and Nate in White 2, because I felt those characters fit the stories better than Hilbert and Rosa. That's just my personal preference, not saying anyone else is wrong for using anyone else. So what if I want to use Leaf in FRLG and Ethan in HGSS? How is your solution any better than Gamefreak just assuming everyone chose Red?
It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than making the blanket assumption that no one _ever_ chose Lead in FRLG.
Maybe they could can implement a subtle way of choosing. Like at game's beginning, your mom could say, 'Remember that documentary we watched about the legendary trainer who did this or that? You've loved pokemon ever since! Say what was their name again?'

>Is it explicitly mentioned anywhere in the game that Red actually performed said feats?
Pretty sure it's mentioned in the official game guide.

>>26549360
>Doesn't this just kind of support my point that Red is a character in his own right? The narrative dictates that you fight Red at Mt. Silver: you're simply following what they wrote.
...no? Roy's gender identity in FE is fixed. And that understandable because the game takes place in a patriarchal medieval setting in which female heroes are unheard of. But in FRLG, the hero could be assigned any gender.

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I'm so tired. I play Pokemon games to get away from this shit and stop thinking about it. It's a Japanese bug collecting chess simulator ffs.
I get being interested in social justice work but I don't get *this.*

(if you're shitposting/b8 excellent work)

>>26549016
>So what make Red's journey more canon?
GSC and HG/SS.

>>26549418
>Roy is fixed, Red isn't.
The point I was trying to make is that the Red you face in HGSS is fixed into the narrative and separate from whatever choices you made in FRLG. The creator of the game decided that Red is the one you face canonically. And in that way of thinking his gender identity is in fact fixed for the events of GSC/HGSS.

>>tumblr

You talk like a fag and your shit's all gay, but yeah, not having Leaf if you played as a girl was lame. Or hell, have it so if you W-Slot your FRLG, it'll use your protag and name.

there are certain player characters that fit the protagonist role a little better than their counterparts. Dawn for example seems to be the character that I feel fits the sinnoh story best. Same goes for Serena in X and Y. It's kind of the same thing with the starters. I can't see Red choosing a squirtle because I always thought it wasn't in Green to pick Bulbasuar. Nothing against it and of course you can play however you want but its just headcanon at best.

>>26548942
Leaf should be like Zinnia if she must appear:causing trouble but ended up always right anyways

Why are people replying to this obvious bait?

>>26548942

You seem to be mistaken that both Leaf and Red are after the same goal

They aren't

The manga even tells you this

>>26550151
Summer

It's sexist because japanese are still unaware of this 'sexual and gender diversity and indentity' movement here in the West. And they're sexist still.

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>>26548942
WHO CARES

ITS A FUCKING GAME

NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS FUCKING GENDER SHIT

GET OFF AND KILL YOURSELF!

The game doesn't know what you named the character or what party you used, so it just had to go with whatever got the message across. By the same merit, they probably decided it was easier to just leave Red there instead of trying to guess which gender you chose in FRLG.

And, as others have said, there was no good reason not to have an option to read your GBA cart, but it didn't.

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>>26548949
>tfw you canonically don't exist

Shit must be pretty rough

>>26550519

Leaf does exist

She just doesn't do what Red does

Just like how May, Dawn and Serena only care about contests

>>26548942
>>>/dumplr/
kys

>>26549269
Wow. Way to be exclusive you piece of shit. What if I played my games based on how fluid my gender was at the time I played it?