How do I get into competitive Pokemon? Why does /vp/ say

>>25862587
VGC is garbage. Don't play it unless you want to see the exact same 8 pokemon (literally) in every single battle.

>>25862587
>xerneas groudon chalk bullshit

yeah nah fuck off vgc shill

Just play for fun using your favorites.
As long as you're enjoying the game and your qt gardevoir there shouldnt be a problem.

>>25862452
>Read guides, there are thousands of them
>They simply never go past 1200

>>25862587
Kill yourself.

>>25862452
To get into competitive, you should watch battles. Go on Pokemon Showdown and use the Watch Battles feature, trying to watch the higher rated battles.

OU Suspect Test is where you should look under.

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Smogon in a nutshell

Play VGC, the official amd superior metagame where players win prizes for doing what they love.

>>25862452
Don't. Pokemon wasn't made to be a competitive game.

>>25862755
>le smugun meme
Do you realise tiers are literally made so your favourite shitmons won't be roflstomped by megafug and the likes? Or are you braindead?

>>25862683
Do people actually not manage to get past 1200?
I started on showdown yesterday and I'm at 1400 already

>>25862587
le lava dinosaur moondeer sky worm meta

>>25862831
This.
The only reason people complain about this is because they want to use their stupid blazikens, greninjas and M-Khangas. They don't give a shit about favorites, they just care that their easy win mode has been taken from them, and they throw a fit like a fucking baby.

>>25862831
>>25862855
if my favorites are so badass and good why don't you learn to adapt and counter them instead of banning them like the little pussies you are

>>25862888
>if my favorites are so badass and good
>why don't you learn to adapt and counter them

The second one doesn't follow whatsoever, do you have a brain? The reason they're banned is they have no counters.

>>25862452
>Why does /vp/ say Smogon is shit?
Smogon makes some decisions that seem pretty arbitrary if you're not on the ladder and familiar with the meta. A lot of it seems like sour grapes, like when they banned Greninja. A lot of casual players seemed like they just banned something that kicked their ass too hard.

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>>25862921
if you're talking about kanga its countered by so many ghost types with will o wisp, not to mention if it just wants to stay in scrappy form it doesn't hit hard enough for the typical bulky ghost.
Also have you heard of the ability mummy?

Blaziken is countered by slowbro, and this was when slowbro didn't have a mega so people couldn't use an eviolite.
Should wall even harder today.

Go ahead and say shit like greninja is broken when nobody uses it on battlespot (official nintendo meta) because its beaten easily.

TL,DR: git gud

>>25862452
>How do I get into competitive Pokemon?
-Find a pokemon that you like
-Figure out what it's good at and what it's bad at
-Add pokemon to your team that support it's strengths and cover it's weaknesses (if your core guy is weak to Scizor, you might want to get a Scizor counter. If your guy hates Rocks, get a spinner. etc)
-Don't be afraid to look outside the confines of OU, rankings are based on popularity and there maybe you need a situational guy that isn't normally popular
-Throw in a surprise or two, most people are mindless retards that copy/paste smogon sets and expect you to do the same. Don't be afraid to use an unexpected set or unusual move on your guy
-Play a lot and figure what works and what doesn't. There is a LOT of trial and error

>>25862961
Kang can run Crunch or even backup Pursuit help if need be.

Blaziken has access to Swords Dance and Knock Off, with again, the option of Pursuit trapping in the back.

>How do I get into competitive Pokemon?
Don't. It's a waste of time and nerves. Competitive Pokemon is a glorified RNG abusing contest, no matter the format.

>>25862961
If all teams in the meta are required to carry a dedicated counter to deal with one specific pokemon, then yes, it's broken. That's what overcentralization is.

>>25862961
>There are people in the year 2016 who STILL don't know what a counter is.

Also, the reason tiers exist is so that you CAN use your favorites without them getting shit on by Pokemon who are blatantly better. If you honestly believe this game is balanced, then you may be actually retarded.

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>>25862452

Because they're a bunch of salty faggots. Smogon is just guides for competitive sets, and a tier system so you can use your bros without getting stomped by broken shit. Of course you're still free to use shitmons in a higher tier, just not the other way around.

To start just watch some matches and play random matches on showdown, and read smogon guides for specific pokemon. You'll pick up the specifics. Of course it's more honorable to build your own team, but you can copypaste from RMT.

>>25862998
>what is mummy
>knocking off a mega stone
How about you play the game instead of theorymoning in your little chat rooms.

>>25863010
Says the guy with garchomp and landorus in every game.

>>25862888
Because we dont want every team to consist of the same 6 Pokemon which would be the case if they stayed

>>25863035
I can name you counters for everything smogon has banned this generation, keep in mind that things like greninja dont even need counters to begin with seeing as any form of priority will kill it

>>25863040
>Literally anything used Ice beam!

>>25862961
\Yes lets run the same 6 Pokemon on every team like vgc because thats fun

>>25863064
So its okay to say ice beam beats landorus and garchomp making them fine but if someone says close combat beats kanga then they are wrong?

smogontards everyone

>>25863050
>>25863082
I love this argument because clearly they just follow smogon like sheep and play on the simulator instead of playing the real game on the 3ds.

If every team consisted of the same pokemon without smogons omnipotent bans (and keep in mind this is what battlespot is) then wouldn't someone just counter team that team and climb to #1 on the ladder?

>>25863088

Tons of things learn ice beam. Very few things learn close combat, and most of them would still have trouble landing it without getting fucked. Lando and chomp also have other weaknesses while Kanga only has fighting.

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Lets not forget smogon is the preferred metagame for pedophiles :^)

No seriolusly, look up Briella and Haunter

>>25863103
No because if you make a counter team to counter a counter team, you will get beat by the original threat they were trying to counter. If i tried to counter a team that was countering Blaziken, Kanga, Greninja Lando I, Genesect etc and you built a team just to counter my mons you'd still get beat by the mons i was countering because there are very few counters for these mons in the first pace So if you want to get shit on by Mega Mom go ahead

>>25863040
Cof still takes the double Crunch, and since Pain Split and Rest are Cof's only recovery options it's easy to wear down, probably killing it next time it has to wall. And that and Sab are the only 2 that can hold it off, unless you want to bring Spiritomb into it too.

If everyone is forced to run Mega Slowbro that's outright unhealthy.

>>25863110
Terrakion and Keldeo both can one shot it while being faster, not to mention 95% of kangas cant touch diances.

As for defensive threats things like garchomp, lando, skarmory, and ferrothorn run rocky helmet with 2 of those proc'ing passive damage twice.

This is all of couse not even considering the shit that beat kanga in the first place that smogon banned (mawile, mega luke, lando-i, aegislash)

>>25863155
So every team should run cof is what you're saying. Not to mention that its bad against literally everything else but alright everyone should run cof

>>25863063
And what's your point about the counters? Everything has one, but that just falls into over-centralization like >>25863010 said.

Also, Greninja dying to any form of priority is a flat-out lie. Even if it did, there's always the chance of it just switching out.

>>25863155
So how is kanga recovering from rocky helmet + stealth rocks.

Are you running wish and or rest?

>>25863176
No if you reread what I said, Cof gets worn down pretty easily. I'm not defending it.

>>25863191
Drain Punch/Low Kick/Ice Punch
>Stealth Rock
I hope this isn't a serious point

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If you absolutely must play favorites that aren't good, playing in weaker tier formats is a step in the right direction.

In the weaker tiers the pokemon you hate seeing over and over in OU aren't there. And your favorite pokemon can do much more damage and play well against the rest of the tier.

Unless you have favorites like Luvdisc or something. In which case just be reasonable and expect that it won't do well. No point in getting upset that luvdisc can't compete with a mega charizard.

>>25863187
You smogon tards shouldn't be talking about over-centralization when running ice beam and HP ice is viable on nearly everything.

You also have no sense of your metagame if you think stealth rocks should not be accounted for like this guy >>25863212

I also love how the mega kanga set you have to counter is

-Return
-Double Edge
-Ice Punch
-Crunch
-Drain Punch
-Low Kick
-Pursuit

Does it also have 252 in HP, Speed, Atk, and both defenses?

>>25863244
Kang only takes 1/8 from rocks with the potential to sweep a whole team once it's out, please tell me this is bait.

And no shit you have to account for the multiple move options, different sets suit different teams and you're not playing the same guy over and over.

>>25862670
only if the strong ones are your favorites.

didnt like Ferrothorn before i knew what a wall it is

>>25863244
I am one Smogon player who doesn't believe things should be banned on over-centralization. I am a Smogon Player who believes things should be banned because they are Broken.I agreed with every ban this gen besides Aegislash
and maybe Mega Mawile

>>25863277
Yet you make it seem like if kanga shows return + ice punch to knock out garchomp then reveals some low kick + sucker punch it will also have crunch to get rid of any ghost type.

Its versatile but scouting its moveset is part of being a good player which obviously isn't taught at smogon university.

>>25862961
>Blaziken is countered by slowbro, and this was when slowbro didn't have a mega so people couldn't use an eviolite.

This is wrong. How has this gone unnoticed?

play by smogon rules if you want to prey on children. otherwise, stick to vgc

>>25863290
Broken meaning it swept a mods team and they brainwashed you into thinking it needs a ban.

I qualified for the Greninja suspect test and even though peoplle were on the fence about it the mods made it so anyone who voiced their opinion about it being ok in OU was silenced, had their post deleted, and on some occasions banned.

Of course when they can't shill their agenda to the general population they'll just throw out votes like they did to get mega gengar banned in ubers.

>in b4 that was once so it wont ever happen again

>>25862452
Don't play Smogon, play VGC.

VGC is official, can earn you money if you git gud, and the meta is far more diverse than any Smogon metas.

Just reminding everyone that you can't hammer sense into idiots no matter what to do.
Main reason as to why they reject smogon in the first place.

Also:
Adapting and not banning shit makes the metagame look like VGC, weren't you faggots complaining about how it's the exact same 6 mons in the same team?
At least you see about 20-30 in 6v6, while you just see 6-10 in VGC doubles.

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>>25863427

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>>25863403
Sure, way more diverse than any of the metas, because fuck the lower tiers and monotype.

>>25863403
>and the meta is far more diverse than any Smogon metas.

I love this meme! XD

>>25863442
It's actually quite disgusting that Smogon has no respect whatsoever for those who like these pokemon.

>>25863450
Shoutouts to Kim with the Lilligant.

>>25863336
>Its versatile but scouting its moveset is part of being a good player which obviously isn't taught at smogon university.

Of course they encourage scouting. Any good player scouts. But if you're forced to populate your team with chiefly answers to Mega Kang, then that's an unhealthy meta.

If you have to run Ferrothorn, Cofagrigus, Tank Chomp all on one team just for Kang, and send out the right mon on the right move, what kind of game is that? It's not like Kang is the player's only mon -- you devoted half your team to bringing down 1/6 of the other guy's.

>>25863037
>tiers are there so your bros won't get fucked by the strongest!
Then why don't you niggers tell OU elitists to shut the fuck up?

>>25863191
Not sure but Kangaskhan seens to get Wish by event.

I keep seeing this overcentralization bullshit, so I'll give a simple rundown.

If you go into a serious Smogon discussion thread and make a post by using overcentralization as a serious argumeny, it's going to get deleted. If you constantly repeat this, you'll get banned.

Overcentralization is a meaningless buzzwork that now only serves as a tool to spot shitters that have no idea what they're talking about and remove them from real discussion.

SMogon is the best thing to happen to /vp/

The butthurt at one mention HAHAHAHAHA

>pokemon wasn't meant to be a competitive game

That is the most pants on head retarded thing I've ever heard on this board

The entire series is about battling. Battling. Every single game has had multiplayer pvp since the beginning and the series was inspired by the creator's childhood habit of battling insects with his friend AKA competition.

And if you're inferring that people shouldn't go to the lengths they do to create good pokemon and form a complex metagame, there are literally IV checkers in the game, as well as mechanics purposely put in place to breed natures and IVs onto a pokemon, and items that boost EVs gained from battle.

You're just butthurt you don't know how to play.

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I got into competitive in Gen 4, and I ended up being #1 in Gen 4 Ubers on Shoddy Battle back in the day.
1. Pick a tier
2. Read the tier list and the tier list below it
3. Pick 3 pokemon you like from those lists, giving preference to the higher tier list
4. Read the Smogon sets for those mons and understand what Pokemon you're using
5. Pick three mons which cover their weaknesses and fill whatever niches you want on your team

You can get pretty far just by doing the above. If you want to make it to top-tier play, you need to deviate from Smogon sets. When I was playing Gen 5 UU, I remember using a specially-bulky Accupressure/Rest Tentacruel with Sludge Wave and Surf as its attacking moves. Nobody ever expected the poison STAB, which ended up netting several wins against bulky grass-types. Not a set you're likely to see on Smogon, but it worked because it was unpredictable.
I think that same team had a lead Magic Guard Alakazam with Trick/Twave/Encore/Psychic and a Choice Scarf. Again, completely unconventional, but because of that it was unpredictable and usually ended up crippling two/three mons on the other team. I never got to the top of UU, but I did get far.
My #1 G4 Ubers team had Shedinja, both Groudon and Kyogre, and a Palkia with Fire Blast/Thunder/Surf/Spacial Rend to take advantage of the weather. It also had a Forretress with HP fire, which 2hkos other Forretress in sun. You can get pretty far with unusual teams.
It's probably best to play cookie-cutter teams while you're learning the tier, but always look to how you can deviate from the standard sets if you want to get higher. Lots of players just say
>Well, I need something to counter Lando T, but Icy Wind isn't listed on the Smogon sets, so I better not put it on my Gengar! If it isn't already standard, it can't be useful!
And end up being shitters until they stop playing.

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>>25862961

You have to counter Greninja completely differently in singles. Protect is a lot less ubiquitous. And M-Kang is borked.

>>25863037
>play random matches
>someone thinks this is good advice

???????????????

thbqthwyg it always bothered me more the clauses.
Tiers are still for prancing lala homo men that can't deal with powerful threat or just bring a team of 6 perfect IV box legendaries like children, but their clauses reek of sweeper safe space.
Most of the shit they complain about have counters in fucking abilities; Insomnia for sleep, Technician for evasion, OHKO rarely hits anything and most things that have Keen Eye don't learn it, who the fuck gets frozen twice; but the things they allow and love need you to cripple one of your mons with shit moves like rapid spin.

I don't dislike Smogon for being Smogon but for it being a product of western players being shitters. We are to japs what spics are to us.

>>25863403
>The meta is far more diverse than any Smogon metas

Is this a joke? Can there actually be people this stupid that exist? Did your mom drop you on your head when you were a baby?

>>25863479
How the fuck do they "not have respect"? Can you please clarify, because I couldn't possibly see how moving them up a tier so OU could be less over centralized counts as " disrespectful."

>>25863537
This doesn't even make sense. Do you know anything about Smogon rules other than what you heard on /vp?

>>25862452
>Why does /vp/ say Smogon is shit?

It doesn't, it's just that Smogon's rules only apply to its meta built around Showdown. If we're talking about playing in the game, it's a different field because the game uses lvl 50 base instead of 100 and some pokemon have wildly different stat allocations at 50.

>>25866740
>Clauses are stupid because you can bring 3 Pokemon with specific abilities on every team

Are you retarded? You really expect everyone to carry counters for evasion, sleep, and OHKOs on every single team?

Clauses ban uncompetitive things. Evasion, sleep spamming, and coin flip OHKOs are not competitive in any way.

>>25866958
No you aren't expected to carry counters on every team. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. It's called life. You can't always win, and shit can't always be "fair". What's more competitive, seeing who can out speed who/ knockout who's staller first, or using everything the game intends you to use in a strategy. And for fucks sake sleep and evasion aren't hard to fucking beat. Sleep, wow, good thing my slower, but stronger pokemon was holding a Lum Berry. Evasion, Haze, all status are back to normal. How hasn't Haze become the counterpart to Rapid Spin, especially with all the fuckers who like to abuse Calm Mind and Swords Dance?

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>>25867204
>"Just use a move with shitty distribution that gets rid of any positive stat boosts you have!"

>>25867228
Yeah because those boosts are going to do you sooo much good when you can't land a hit. The move has enough distribution to be used well, you just want a reason to not have to deal with evasion because if the "IMMA SMASH GUY" plan doesn't pan out you don't have anything else. Maybe you'll think it's a good idea when you're going up against a triple Dragon Danced Mega Salamence. Sure you'd need a focus sash to get it off, but you wouldn't get royally buttfucked.

>>25862452
/vp/ is actually full of smogon shills.

>>25862452
The first step is to kill yourself, OP.

>>25863124
Too lazy. What happened?

>>25863082
>>25863050
But that has been proven wrong by literally every top 10 in the regionals anywhere, except France

>>25862452
Smogon's community itself is questionable, but that's kinda beside the point. The way they structure their 6vs6 singles meta isn't so bad. I've since come to embrace the position that 6vs6 singles itself is the thing that is toxic or broken. Back as far gen 4, it was fine, but gen5 just shat on all pretenses of balance that were left. Megas were the nails in the coffin.

I love gen6,don't misunderstand me. I just think 3vs3 singles is the only non-Uber singles meta that has any intellectual integrity left.

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>>25862452
>Ban all legendaries and Mega-K from VGC

This fixes the metagame. Hopefully the powers that be will come to their senses when sun & moon get released. I just hope my gen 6 mons will still be legal, I ain't going through that breeding process again

>inb4 just inject them
Truly, these people are worse than Giovanni

Play Little Cup OP, I need more opponents, the community for LC is way too small

>>25865994
This is the only worthwhile advice i've read in this thread.

Fuck the rest of you.

>>25862452
Read guides on the Smogon forums, and just go play competitive. Also don't listen to /vp/ about any competitive format - almost everybody is a clueless idiot.

Your second question: Smogon does have some flaws (for example, it curates the metagame based on making as many playstyles viable as possible, not on making games consistently fun or fun to watch, and Pokémon is just not a super well-made game in the first place in terms of competitive.) Most of the ranid /vp/ opposition to Smogon is just underaged kids who think Smogon is an evil anti-fun empire for them to hate.

>>25869848
It's very easy and convenient to dismiss any argument whatsoever by projecting everyone as being underaged and a clueless idiot. How nice it must be, living inside your special bubble.

>>25869871
Not him but he's 100% right. Anyone who opposes Smogon is uninformed in the full definition of the word.

Because of the number of times we have to keep stressing that Smogon isn't some 'favorites killer' or anything and the explanations we give, it's pretty safe to say their stubbornness is indicative of their immaturity.

>>25863350
It's obvious bait and you fell for it

>>25869959
What you just replied to was bait, and you fell for it.

>>25863244
>i don't know what a counter is 2:the return of the fag: the long awaited sequel: electric boogaloo: now in imax
Just go and stay go scrub

>>25862452
I'll do you one better, skip smogon and just play vgc. Or at least the vgc format on smogon. Singles is one of the most unbalanced formats out there, full of bullshit and crap bans. Not to mention it turns into stall hell. Get ready for matches with 3 figure turn counts.

>>25869871
It's true, though. Most - not ALL, but MOST - of the more aggressive, angry Smogon hateposters don't understand one or more of the singles meta, the fundamentala of how a Pokémon team works against threats, or the basic concept of a competitive metagame. I base that statement off the arguments that they themselves bring up in the multiple threads a day we have on this subject. There's a post in THIS THREAD complaining about fucking Mega Gengar getting banned. The fact that most of these people come across as angry teenagers is purely incidental.

>>25862452
>Why does /vp/ say Smogon is shit?
Mostly because /vp/ is shit

>>25862961
>this was when slowbro didn't have a mega so people couldn't use an eviolite.
Did no one else see this?

>>25862452
They say that, but what they really mean is that Pokemon competitive as a whole is shit.

Do not take it seriously. That is the ultimate rule of Pokemon competitive. You're better off playing dice. If you're a big fan of random number generators there are better games to play than competitive pokemon.

Breeding competitive mons takes too much time so play showdown. That's the second rule. If you don't do this there is a /wifi/ thread for breeders and 6IV dittos come from somewhere I guess.

Third rule is ignore any other rules that you want to ignore.

>>25863124
What's that? Don't make people look it up and tell us.

>>25874161
So first it came out that Goddess Briyella was actually a man and had been ERPing with and possibly soliciting pictures from young boys and girls for some time. Bonus memes are awarded for the fact that Briyella was always one of Little Cup's most vocal fans.

Haunter openly advocated against informing the authorities and basically wanted the whole affair hushed up and Briyella quietly banned. Rumor has it that chaos thought that was fishy and started keeping track of Haunter, who is a fat Italian lawyer in his thirties.

About two weeks later it came out that Haunter had also been erping and possibly getting pictures from at least once underaged girl on the site.

This is why Showdown! and Smogon have recently become so strict on explicit content, and have started logging all PM's.

I barely play competitive pokemon at all, the only teams I make on showdown are random karenfag teams nased on pokemon I like, most of the time I don't even use the smogon recommended sets for anything more than just suggestions since I like to pick my own moves too.

But how can you people possibly not understand the necessity of tiers? This is not a balanced game. If it wasn't for smogon's tiers, 90% of existing pokemon would become worthless. How am I supposed to use shitty pokemon like Shiftry, Magcargo, and Flareon without tiers? They are simply outclassed in every way otherwise. What's wrong with creating metas that allow people to play with any pokemon they like? The only other option would be to try to play with my favorite pokemon against people using Arceus, Primal Groudon, Xerneas, Greninja, Mega Kangaskhan, and Talonflame and get utterly wrecked 100% of the time just because the pokemon I want to use simply can't compete regardless of what strategy you employ unless your opponent is 9 years old.

I simply don't understand the alternative to this. There is none. Either tiers have to exist or we are essentially all going to be forced to play Ubers/OU anyways.