Heroes of the Storm General - /hotsg/

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When go Q build on Valla and when W?

>nova spends entire teamfights afk waiting for low hp heroes to lasthit with snipe
>hammer absolutely refuses to unsiege and stays put while a punisher punches her to death

>>183830517
>When to go Q
When the enemy has a lot of blind
>When to go W
Tomb of the spider queen

I thought we'd have garrosh info why did 4chan lie AGAIN?

Can you VP the core on Hanamura/Towers of Doom and prevent it from taking damage from enemy rockets?

>>183830551
>when you are unga but your team is bunga

>>183830736
actually i am bunga and my team is unga

Why the fuck do I have to give money to twitch just to get some HGC portraits?

So much blizzshekels leftover from playing wow and nothing to spend it on in hots because I have so many fucking shards.

>>183830517
Q for burst or vs blinds, also on BOE
W for waveclear maps/tomb/infernal or whenever you can keep your hatred up. always go W if paired with auriel on any map.

never go aa build. its shit.

>>183830517
>q build
boe, or at least take Monster Hunter at 1
>w build
whenever you feel like it, especially if you have auriel since the aoe damage gives her lots of heal juice

how do you guys level cho'gall? just asking randoms?
>interesting skin on heroe i dont enjoy

>>183831321
Play with friends. You do have friends, don't you?

Start playing Lunara. Fun fun fun

>don't que support
>get team with no support vs a team iwth tyrande
Thanks blizz

>>183831469
>friends into hots
no , every match i wonder why i'm playing it honestly

How do you do it /v/? How do you stay positive when nearly every game you get at least one total idiot who throws the game?

>>183831993
by finding a way to avoid caring about individual games outside of my personal performance within them

or just taking a break and realizing how much fun other things are

>>183831993
I win those

>zul'jin goes in to kill zagara
>3 people show up to gank him
>I hook him to safety before he gets the kill
>he gets blasted by a stealth tyrande
>"WTF I HAD THE KILL"
God I fucking hate people

>>183832419
Zul'jin just wants to press R man before he dies. Don't bother saving him, he might get some value out of it

>>183831993
did you try not being a manchild who gets mad about losing a video game

>>183832419
>making way for da bad guy when da bad guy wanna give axe instead
come on mon

>>183831993
I mount up and look at my Happy Cloud.

>>183832807
I tried but your mom wouldn't let me.

how do i malthael

>>183833069
spam the fartcloud out
when you see a good opportunity W in and press R
now the whole enemy team is marked so when you press Q you get infinity hp and therefore you are tanky as fuck
hope your team follows up

>>183831993
Stick a needle in my dickhole while thinking hots is still better than having a needle in my dick

God DAMN Li Ming is fun.

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>>183831993
By expecting them to throw the game and do passive aggressive remarks that proves me right. If they try to prove me wrong I still win.

>>183831993
desu I feel like even on support I can carry a lot of games so it doesn't really bother me. You have to know what macro decisions to make for the team, most of the time people listen

if you could have duplicates of the same hero in the same team, what would be the strongest comp?

>>183833738
5 samuros

does lazer azmo win vs leoric in lane?

>>183834027
That depends entirely on whether Leoric lands/holds W and whether he has E up to get out of dodge. Which is pretty easy given how much laser slows Azmo early, countering Leoric W's one weakness. I'd say Leoric wins given equal skill players and no ganks. I'm gonna guess Azmo can't do shit after Leoric hits 4 and gets Fealty though.

WTF I thought we could get Sun's Out chests until the 28th? The fuck is going on Blizz?

what happens if one picks gall in ranked
and the enemy teams bans cho?
>20 catchaps later
i should leave

>>183833738
2 or 3 azmos would be pretty fuckin ridiculous
after 10 you would just always have every single lane pushed up to the enemy fort
a team of 5 cassias would be funny since they all benefit from each others' blinds
5 hammers would let you enjoy the authentic terran-vs-terran experience
5 genjis or 5 mings would also be crazy since you get 5x the resets
5 rag means the enemy team can just never push because of constant molten cores and lava waves

>>183834648
you cant do that

>>183834648
you can only pick chogall when your team has two back-to-back picks and you take both at once

>ming thinks she cant die to my chromie Qs because of spell armor
>doesn't know my auto attacks hit just as hard as my Q

>>183833329
>I'm so good, I asspound myself.
GLADOS hero?

>>183835254
Ming doesn't have spell armour, and how can your AA hit as hard as your Q?

>>183835734
>Ming doesn't have spell armour
Yes she does

>and how can your AA hit as hard as your Q?
Bronze talons

>>183835734
Ming gets spell armor on 1
Chromie gets massive AA boost on 2

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>>183835734
this is the average competence level of hots' playerbase, everyone

>>183835734
>Ming doesn't have spell armour
bronze detected

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>>183835734
>>183835734
>Ming doesn't have spell armour, and how can your AA hit as hard as your Q?

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>>183835734
>Li-Ming doesn't have spell armor
This guy.

Also; Bronze Talons on 2

>turned in 70% of the team's coins
>not MvP
lmao?

>>183836434
>turn in 7 coins out of 10
>how am I not MVP guize?

>>183836573
ye that's what i asked

>>183836434
>mvp

who
cares

>>183836619
because you're gay. go back to sucking dick

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>>183835856
>>183835858
>>183835861
>>183835870
>>183836007
>>183836042
>Implying I play Anal sluts like Li Ming
I only play as a mage when I want to ORC the enemy team

>>183836912
>implying you're not a faggot

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>>183836912
Good damage control anon, tell me more!.

>good team vs good team and good matchup
>win

>bad matchup
>lose

>bad team
>lose

>bad team and bad matchup
>lose

Man I sure do love me those video games

>>183836912
>not knowing the basic capabilities of all heroes
you're one of those guys who uses fend on a deflecting genji and wonder why you die arent you

>>183836434
MVP is basically KDA
If you turned in 900 gorillian coins it doesn't matter if someone has more kills and less deaths than you

>>183836912
>I don't know her kit because I'm not a shitter
>doesn't know li ming has spell armour or that chromie can AA nuke you
>not a shitter

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>D.va has been nerfed into complete dogshit for ranked but still fucking trashes qm because she gets put against no warrior teams

why the fuck is it like this?

>>183837135
He would need to know what Fend is first

>>183837109
>play bad
>lose
Explain this one hotsbabs?

>>183837037
Sure

Filthy is the anal slut Li-Ming, pure is the Gul'dan who shall destroy your enemies with untold power. He shall deal a huge amount of DOT or sustain damage on your enemies, he will fear them and break them.
>>183837135
No, I'm not stupid to the degree where I attack Genji with a deflect or Zarya with a shield.

>>183837302
Because shitters gonna shit, she literally is the Murky of Warriors, both of her health bars are crap and her mech damage fucking sucks so the only thing she has is half of the warrior's purpose which is to be a fire magnet.

>>183837302
because fuck that bitch

>>183837345
Cassia's E

>>183837375
>first game I'm stitches with nova, butcher zul and aba
>vs chromie, mura, tyrande, zeebro and a fuckboi
Yeah good luck winning that

>second game, play xul on bhb, soak top two lanes, leave team bot
>they're 4 people
>stukov and assassins
>they can't push for shit
>three people are trying to counter me
>team can't win 4v2
>never turns in
>leaves the captain completely alone, allowing the enemy team to cap
>lose

>third game
>fuck you I'm not going to waste my time on this, 0 deaths azmo, 140k siege, 28k exp, team bronzebrawled all game mid and fed all game
>11 deaths medivh, 10 deaths uther

GEE
IT'S ALMOST AS IF BAD GAMES HAPPEN

WEIRD, HUH?

>>183837687
how do i subscribe to this blog

>>183837971
By killing yourself

>dragon map
>enemy team gets dragon around level 20
>tell my team to let them end it
>they go for keeps instead of core
>think it will end in another 5 minutes when they get the objective again
>they are complete retards and don't just secure the objective
>takes forever but they get the dragon
>rushes in straight at core all alone
>dragon dies when core is at 60% and a couple of them die so they back off
>game finally ends at 31 minutes when they get the dragon again
Surrender vote when? It was clear we were not going to win like 10 minutes into the game thanks to the team comps QM shat out

>>183837687
>first game
bullshit
>second game
>losing bhb
entirely your fault
>third game
>afk xp gain azmodan wonders why his team lost while being a man down
typical shitter

Even if team is bunga, you bunga along with them fuckface

I like to see a graphic with the differences between difficult and fun of using a hero

>>183839027
i'd like tot see a graphic explaining what the fuck this post means

>>183839481
I'd like to see a graph of your IQ

Protip: try inserting difficulty where that anon wrote difficult

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>>183839559
dont bully me

>>183828465
>willful dishonesty
Nope you lying sack of shit,
>>183828731
>>183829041
>>183829056
>>183829113
>>183829961
Stealth has already been addressed as to why it's OP and harmful for the game.

Stuns are imbalanced as they basically serve as an 'i win' button in too many circumstances, allow no counterplay, because they allow someone to rape you with impunity while you can sit there and do NOTHING in response, which is self-evidently bad game design and shouldn't be present in any game. Stun, as well as Stealth, can be reworked to allow for counterplay, provide a balanced reward for the risk involved (clicking a button), and not be so anti-fun as to be harmful to the health of the game.

Ranked mode should of course exist, but not exclusively as the tedious, boring Draft/Ban mode. Blizzard should have a blind pick teams mode so people can actually play who they want to play, and not have to balance Blizzard's game for them by wasting 5 minutes before each match with 'bans' which is the single most asinine thing in any competitive game.

there is nothing wrong with genji

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>>183839765
stop

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>>>>self-evidently
not an argument

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>reveal Garrosh will be next hero
>reveal no other info for an entire week
>don't put him on ptr for two weeks

>>183840520
They already said he is going to be playable in that china con this week.

no one cares about that orc like no one even remembers who he was

when are they going to add reaper

I hope there's more to Garrosh's release, like a new map or something. Whatever happens there's gamescom at the end of august so thats another chance to reveal a cool character or two, last year I believe we got Medivh and Gul'dan revealed.

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>>183840713
>more overshit
arent from round here are ya boy

>lorefags STILL caring which franchise a character comes from
get out of my thread and go waste your time writing fanfiction or something, jesus

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This build was fun as fuck. Instead of mindlessly rightclicking and later taz'dingo-ing, you actually depend on your abilities to do most damage.

>>183841206
no :)

>overwatch niggers think they matter
valla skin

>>183841249
>This build was fun as fuck. Instead of being useful, you're actually a piece of shit

I'll never understand this mentality

>>183841249
stop taking regen talents retard
but yeah the Q talents at 1 and 7 are fun

>>183840985
we desperately need reaper, mercy, ana, winston, and mei

>>183841249
>regen talents
>not even going AP build to make them worth it
why

>>183841537
literally the only one there that even has a chance of being added is Winston
The rest are overlapped out of existence or absolute super mega aids cancer or both

>>183841380
>>183841553

Alt to 4 is either the hardest quest in the game or boring ass attack speed.

Alt to 13 is more speed that you won't need against an ensnared opponent, or an incredibly niche and underused pick.

>>183841693
They've confirmed they want to add Mei at some point though.

>>183841693
you will not prevent mei the god from being added
rev up those blizz letters boi

>>183841746
>>183841790
Just because some blue posted they'd like to doesn't mean ti will happen.

>>183841884
its going to happen, sorry anon maybe next year they'll add your waifu

>>183841884
>Blizzard rep who literally works on the game and has inside info says they want to add her
>Just because they say so doesn't mean it'll happen

>Random guy #86594 on Malaysian candlemaking imageboard says they won't add her
>They won't add her, 100%, unquestionable

>>183841968
Legit don't even want anyone, just being realistic. Overlap is a real thing, you can't have two heroes that does the exact same shit (or one that does the same thing as another hero just infinitely better). They've already whimped out on some heroes for this exact reason.

>>183842395
Upcoming orc who shall not be named is major overlap and has no reason to exist outside of fanservice. If they can do that, they can do it for a lil ice qt.

>>183842516
I don'tthink you know what overlap means considering we have no idea what his fucking kit will be, whereas OW heroes have exactly one kit set in stone already.

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Sup bros, so I have some info on Garrosh and how he will play:

Obviously, he's a bruiser.
However, he plays like a mixture of Colossus Varian, Sonya, and Butcher.

Basically, in the hands of a competent player, Garrosh can easily 2v1 opponents.

He is intended to shake up the meta, being a hard counter to Supports and high mobile Assassins.

He's playable on the F&F build and has been for a bit, and he's a lot of fucking fun. Anticipate Gold and below ranked shitters crying OP like you haven't heard before.

>>183842752
You've told us nothing about his kit so why should we believe you

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I'm so tired.

I can't even blame team. I've lost the last 30 games or something.

>>183842860
Don't want to spoil / get in trouble somehow. I don't work for Blizzard, but someone in my household does.

I know the spotlight should be up by Thursday depending on where you are on the globe.

>>183838979
>no support
>no proper damage
>no back up defence
>vs all of that
Yeah
nah

>you can't lose in bhb lmao, you should've just carried harder as xul brah

>afk xp
>I was second highest hero damage in the game, throwing dunks midlane and soaking botlane
Nigga you dumb
Do you also suggest I leave my lane undefended to join in on some retarded brawl, while the enemy murky pushes top?
Fuck off
>hurr durr every loss is entirely your own fault
>but you can't carry in this game since it's a team game
Sure bud

>>183843190
niBBa do you KNOW where you are?

Shit gets leaked all the fucking time here, no body gonna come looking for you (unless you're axolotl may god bless his soul)

>>183843190
Come on anon, you gotta show more if you wish to be believed, spotlight on Thursday is a pretty obvious and safe bet.

>>183842712
>whereas OW heroes have exactly one kit set in stone already.
Nope.

>>183841716
yes more damage is boring and gimmick talents for the useless regen skill are interesting
doesn't mean the former is bad or the latter is good

>>183843523
Explain to me how they could add Mercy without deleting Auriel and Morales entirely?

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>https://static1.e621.net/data/c7/4a/c74aa20a9a0187ec02334d0399d2e6f7.webm
WOAH

>>183844421
this is a christian board

>>183844421
Gets ganked, free exp for enemy team
What is this, wood league

>>183844421
>Not in Ghost Wolf form

What's the point?

>>183838937
>surrender
lol fag

>>183838937
>Surrender vote when?

Just alt+f4 you weak piece of shit.

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Did they give swipe such an insane cooldown just so people would pick the objectively worse heroic?

>>183844421
orced

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>>183838937
>Surrender vote when?

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>>183845840
Don't worry they already surrendered on the idea of having a surrender button.

>>183845762
>.4 winrate makes it objectively worse

>>183846315
>only usable on open maps
>not objectively worse
9 times out of 10 shove will only move 1 person the same distance swipe moves everyone in its aoe.

>>183838937
>wanting to surrender

Congratuations, you are officially "that" guy.

>>183845828
Rehgar was bottom, he got Elfed.

when should I pick lazer drill/odin as tychus? both seem good and both have teamfight/pushing power, so I'm unsure which one is best or situational

>>183847507
Pick laser when you get more value with your minigun, i.e. vs double tank that you can safely attack and melt the crap out of them

Pick Odin in pretty much every other situation and rain shit down on the entire team

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>QM as tassadar
>have tracer on team

>Bought Zul'Jin with gold instead of gems two weeks ago
>on sale now


fuuuuck. Weeks of 0 heroes that I want going on sale and now he goes.

>>183847229
Yeah, "that" guy who actually knows how to play and can see the result of the game before it ends

>>183847652
The only time tracer actually isn't a burden on your team.

>>183847996
More like "That guy that gives up when the situation is less than optimal resulting in a guaranteed loss instead of a possible win through playing well"

>>183847996
>1% core comebacks have never happened before
>I have preemptively decided that we will lose, therefore I will throw
>I know how to play, but I still can't attempt to carry my team to victory

>>183848141
I've been carried by good tracers loads of times. Post launch nerfs btw.

>>183847239
Rehgar is the one with the dick, Valeera got orced

>>183848141
tracer is op btw

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>>183848521
Yes, but rehgar is a support and valeera is an assassin, and she's on top, We have to assume that this was the result of a gank from her. Thus Elfed.

If you are from Kiew or planning to visit it you can visit Western Clash there aswell, entrance is free and you will get free Garrosh code.
Or if you know someone who is going there ask them to bring you some Garrosh codes aswell

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10k gold wat do

>>183849691
probe this
brrraaaap

>>183849691
Swappy shieldy blindy man or burrowy ESSENCE man

>>183849691
wait for best orc

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>>183849838
i already own thrall though?

>>183848291
Just because a 1% core comeback has happened in a game doesn't mean it has a chance of happening in every game. Sometimes the enemy team comp is just too strong compared to yours and they are competent enough to play it right

What is the lowest skill level required, highest impact hero I can cheese to consistently? I'm bad mechanically but I enjoy winning

>>183850589
Butcher probably
Charge someone out of position mash your buttons in order and they die

>>183850589
gazzy

>>183850729
Butcher requires low mechanical skill but you need decent gamesense to know when and when not to charge
a lot of bad butchers just feed real bad because they charge in too early and try to 1v5

>>183850589
A strong tank. Arthas. Hit army, run at them.

>>183850589
There are different kinds of skill like mechanical skill to hit combos and gamesense to know when to engage. Li Li is probably mechanically the easiest character in the game, and also she's ranged heals so you don't need to know how to initiate/disengage, split push, jungle, etc. She doesn't have big impact though.

I would still probably say one of the ranged healers, maybe Morales.

>>183849691
Malthael = Genji > Dehaka > Varian

if you want to win games of course

>>183850589
pick sylvanas
teamfights consist of right clicking, holding down your auto-aim Q, and spamming W
group with the team deathball, do NOT splitpush
try to corral your dumb team into attacking a building with you whenever you have a talent tier advantage, you're 5v4, you have a boss or objective, etc
you stun building, 5 angry men hit building, building dies

>>183850589
Ignore >>183851027

Do NOT pick splitpushers if you want to win and are bad at the game. Not only will it rarely work, but you will learn terrible habits doing it.

>>183850589
Morales is great as long as you don't put yourself in danger.

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>>183851146
yes but have you considered:
only retards play sylv as a splitpusher, also you cant read

>>183851146
>Guy 1 tells him to pick Sylvanas
>Guy 2 tells him not to pick splitpushers

Not seeing how those are mutually exclusive

>>183851262
>retards
let's be honest here, that's who we are talking to
>I'm bad mechanically but like to win
I get that Slyvannas needs to push with the team, but they will inevitably pick Sylvannas, fuck off to top lane and hit buildings for 21 minutes and cry about bunga team

>it's a stealth faggot ruins another match episode
is blizzard ever going to fix this shit? it's fucking awful.

>>183851502
Play Chromie and take stealth detection talent

>its a "i got stunned by the enemy team" episode
fucking remove this feature alreayd blizzard i am objectively correct about game design

>open TWO legendaries in a row
>literally doesn't matter because they were both one of the million tints for skins I already have that I don't even like more than the current tint

>it's a "enemy team hit me" episode
fucking blizzard pandering to PVP faggots get a life nerds

>>183851582
LITERALLY cleanse

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>n HGC fan can start unlocking items for a specific team once they reach 100 Bits Cheered.
Hmm.....thats 1.5 bux. Which teams are considered gud enough to reach finals anyway?

>>183851828
MVP black from korea and Fnatic from europe.

>>183851828
Fnatic, Dignitas, MVP (big maybe), Tempo, gale

>>183851828
Don't listen to this guy >>183851962
american teams are shit

>Resonation + Phase Disruption on Tassadar
holy shit this is so good
why does everybody always take oracle talents

>>183852192
Roll20 did surprisingly well for being amerifat

>>183852252
Because massive CDR and vision constantly?

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>>183851828
Also i forgot the article
http://us.heroesofthestorm.com/esports/en/news/20937017

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>Play Arthas
>Entire enemy focuses me because I am low
>Pop army and mash r while using my coil to heal
>Enemy realizes they are fucked staying near me so long
>They try to run away
>They can't
>Win

At first I didn't think he was great due to seeing so many people play him like shit. Until I tried him out and now he is my favorite tank next to Stitches.

How do I git gud with AA assassins

>>183852308
>Roll20 did surprisingly well for being amerifat
They are not even going to the western clash.

>>183851828
Naventic.

>>183852405
right click on the enemy pplayers do do damage to them and make they're hp go down
then right click on the ground to mvoe
then right click on the enemy champion again

>>183852361
Just wait until you get familiar enough with him to stop being a pussy and take the fun ult instead.

>>183852582
Yeah you are the fags that made me not want to play him because they pick that shitty ult while they blow up. Unless the enemy is trying to run away its pretty useless since you should already be in the middle of them.

>>183852732
Sindragosa is a 70 second on demand Sylvannas on all their structures and Earthquake in a line. Both ults have uses.

>>183852732
you dont START fights in the middle of the enemy team
sindragosa is for initiating

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I am now begging for Forced 50. Please, Forced 50. I just want to win a game.

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>>183852976
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vB9U2hx6Qg

>>183853141
I need to upload my shit again. I stopped a million years ago.

Solid public shaming though. Silver, gold.

>>183852913
>Start fight with sindragosa
>Blow up

Landing your howling blast works just as well especially if you get the talent to increase the range.

>>183853285
Nigga how do you not blow up with other tanks who don't have ghouls? He already has passive armor and coil. I'm not saying Sindragosa's the right ult every single time but it's a good ult.

>>183853285
>Picking the bad talent so you don't have to pick the good ult
I don't get it

>>183850076
That's worst orc. Wait for best orc coming in ~2 weeks.

When's the next patch? I want them to fix Naz's bug already

>>183853403
LMAO

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>>183852913
>using Sindra during combat
You use it to push keeps on escort maps dummy

>>183853394
>the bad talent
are you one of those memelords who goes dps arthas

>>183851762
If every hero had cleanse, you (might) have an argument.

>>183852582
Sindragosa is a pretty bad win-more ultimate though.

>>183853563
every hero needs stealth not cleanse

>>183853440
Tomorrow most likely

>>183851572
>play a shit hero to have a chance against something that should be removed from the game

>>183853601
Why?

>>183853441
Dumb.

>>183853801
It adds a necessary layer of strategy the game desperately needs due to positioning not mattering much.

When do I pick Poison Nova over Skellies and when do I pick Kalan's edict for either ult?

>>183853970
But that would simply allow someone to entirely undermine all the skill needed for proper positioning. What a shit idea.

>>183853972
Against dive heroes with low support, aka probably never. Good against Illidans and Valeeras. Skelemages just give so much control over a fight and synergizes with his kit.

Edict kind of sucks shit. It's good on Infernal Shrines where you can be doing the objective and also have skeletons spawning in lane so you can get value. Maximum only get like 40-50% CDR under optimal circumstances so weight the options. If you get Jailors, get the skeleton upgrades at 20.

>>183854235
That's entirely incorrect.

>>183853972
>poison nova
when you can reliability hit the entire enemy team with it

>but I walk in, get cc'd, it gets put on cd and i die
and that's why you take skeles, which also offer utility/pick potential

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>>183852732
>should i slow the entire enemy team by 60% and turn off any structures they might be clinging on to for dear life from an entire screen away?
>no need, i'll just take army so i can survive long enough to pop my melee range circle of 10%/sec slow, walk up and stand in the middle of their team
>there's no way they can stop me unless they have stuns or roots or knockbacks
>i sure hope i don't get silenced or stunned and die because i can't press R

>>183852976
STOP. PLAYING. QUICKMATCH.

That is the source of the woes for 90% of the bitching that goes on here. You cannot expect a reasonable fucking outcome when it's a complete tossup as to what you'll get on your team, what the enemy team will get on their team and whether or not ANY of it will be good for the map you're on. Quick match is pure garbage and much like AI should only be played by the mentally fucking deficient or the severely handicapped.

Go play unranked, you'll have a much fucking better experience.

>>183854469
>no argument given
k

>>183853601
>>183853970
Every hero does have stealth.
Just stand behind a wall or in bushes and the enemy can't see you.

>>183854683
>don't have fun playing the game!
>pay the mode that forces you to waste 5+ minutes before each match being bored while your opponents decide if you even get to play the hero you want to play
Sounds fucking shitty tbqh.

>>183853462
I have that exact same hoodie

>>183854807
Finally anon catches on.

>>183854683
Every time I try unranked, I realize how little I actually know about counterpicking and playing. There's a reason why my QM MMR is Plat while my Unranked is Bronze.

I get that both are bronze, but yeah.

Anyway, I finally won a game, so I'm done for the night. I'm just pissy because I missed getting a surfboard.

>>183854928
>>183854807
That's not the Stealth actual Stealth heroes have. Not even comparable.

>>183854975
Picks, counterpicks and composition alone aren't keeping you anywhere. Agreeing with the other fellow here and suggesting you stick to draft modes.

>>183854871
>don't have fun playing the game!
You already weren't having fun you dumb fucking twat. That's why you're on 4chan complaining about how you lose so fucking often playing retard mode.
>pay the mode that forces you to waste 5+ minutes before each match being bored while your opponents decide if you even get to play the hero you want to play
Two to three minutes at best; and stop trying to fucking "main" things you goddamn autist. No one cares if nova just gets your dick rock hard, play the actual GAME not the hero.

You'll have a much better experience than hurr durr stealth bumblefuck retard mode, where you can randomly into tass+tracer+uther 3stacks or cho'gallauriel 3stacks or whatever fucking game ruining nonsense you cant see coming because there is no way to do anything about it, so you're stuck playing lame duck for 20 minutes.

Quick match is for retards. You CANNOT expect a reasonable experience from it, it is best to not play it at all.

>>183855262
I find it kinda funny that you're saying quick match is for retards but you're also telling him to go play unranked.

>>183855262
>play the actual GAME
Me playing the hero I want is playing the game you retard.

>playing retard mode
The --->only<--- 'retard mode' is the one that forces you through a tedious, boring waste of time that ends with you not playing the hero you want to play. It's objectively, self-evidently shit-fucking-awful game design and I can't imagine what kind of brainless fucking lemming would actually defend it. Like holy fucking shit.
>banning cards out of your opponent's deck before a match in a card game
Seriously, who the FUCK would EVER think this was a good idea that should be put into a game?

>b-but Blizzard is too fucking talentless to balance the game so we NEED to waste 5 minutes before each match 'banning' heroes
Exactly the problem.

Ranked Team/Solo Quick Match is the only actual mode that matters, and Blizzard are fucking morons for not including it years ago.

>>183855624
... what?

>>183855624
He's saying the mode that makes you waste 5 minutes before each match before you find out if you even get to play the hero you want to play is the 'smart' mode. It being ranked or unranked wasn't central to his attempt at an argument.

>>183855791
Unranked is for people who blame QM for their losses but are also horrible at the game so they don't want to play ranked instead and parade their bronze rank around. It's literally just as full of retardation as QM except people are way angrier because they think draft makes it "serious".

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I am prepared to go all the way.

160k healing at 30 mintues

>>183855963
not to mention the 6 hour draft for the literal same experience

>>183855963
I blame myself for my losses, but these two guys tell me it is QM's fault.

Whatever. I didn't want my bitching to start an argument. I just wanted to vent. It is my fault for playing what essentially amounts to a random hero every day (whoever is next to level up).

who said the azmo brawl was 30 minute games
i just had one end at 13 minutes

turns out games can end pretty fast when your globe does ~40% of a hero's health and your team can throw 5 globes at once

>>183855762
>Me playing the hero I want is playing the game you retard.
Then you don't get to complain about losing. You get to take that shit silently.
>tedious, boring waste of time
Ensuring a that your team doesn't have whatever the matchmaker chose to throw at it so that both teams are reasonably balanced is "tedious and boring".

>Seriously, who the FUCK would EVER think this was a good idea that should be put into a game?
People who aren't retarded. People who can go "Oh god, Earthquake + Apocalypse + Bloodlust + bugged Hyperion is total cancer right now and I really don't want to play against it every match because it is literally not working as intended and is generally way too powerful, I am going to ban one of the most egregious offenders and then make sure that neither team ends up with more than half of the respective nonsense".

But hey, you are the literal retard who thinks that quickmatch is capable of being "balanced" and thinks that bans are "dumb", and you probably have some ridiculous gripes about stuns too don't you bud.

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>Lose
>Teammates start screaming how its all my fault and how I better not dare play my character again
>Immidately do another match without swapping characters.

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fuck

>>183856119
>but these two guys tell me it is QM's fault.
No one said that. They said that quickmatch is inherently unbalanced and unbalanceable and that if you're concerned with winning and not having the matchmaker randomly throw garbage at you, you probably shouldn't play QM.

Quickmatch is ridiculously easy to abuse (Cho'gauriel, Tass+tracer duo, Genji+uther duo) and the average match quality can vary greatly. If you queue as something like artanis which is bad on basically zero maps, you'll usually have an okay time, if you queue as niche thing you'll get fucked up the ass about 70% of the time.

There will be matches where you are thrown against an enemy comp where you literally have zero tools to deal with it because they're a bunch of hyper-pushing specialists and you got 2 stealthies and zero waveclear.

If you play a draft mode, you can see the map and literally take your 'fate' into your own hands, being considerably more accountable for your choices. Didn't want to fill? You fucked up. Didn't take hero that was good for the map? You fucked up. Didn't counterpick enemy hero? You fucked up. It's not hoping that the matchmaker will give you the tools to deal with the enemy team (or them to deal with you) or the map, it's choosing to take them yourself when you see what's on the table.

>>183855039
>stealth is only being visible while you're in direct combat
>stealth is not only being visible while you're close enough to be in combat
So the game automatically hiding your dumb ass would put more emphasis on positioning than having to use the map to put yourself in a better position.
>but muh shimmers tell you where stealthed things are
And paying attention to the map tells you where enemies in the fog of war are.

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>say "more on tracer" because their tracer doing work
>our tracer: "I was trying thanks for being a cunt :)"
>me: "?"
>our tracer: "calling me a moron piece of shit"

>>183856254
>Then you don't get to complain about losing. You get to take that shit silently.
No no, stupid. I play to win with the hero I want to use to play the game with. It is ENTIRELY the onus of the designers to make that hero viable. And it sure as FUCK isn't up to me to waste 5 minutes before every fucking match to deny my opponent the hero he wants to play, either.

Yes, sitting in a lobby instead of ACTUALLY PLAYING THE FUCKING GAME is pretty much the definition of tedious and boring. Your argument essentially amounts to "Well, you have to waste that time being bored before each match because Blizzard are talentless hacks who can't balance their own game so you have to!"

The rest of what you have is basically the same as the above. A brainless lemming defending the ONLY people responsible for bad game design/balance while blaming the people who should never fucking have to be arsed to even worry about it. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you, and people who think like you?

>>183856682
I'll give another go at unranked and try to learn what picks are when. I genuinely don't know if Chen is bad on Battlefield of Eternity or if Lt. Morales doesn't work on Dragonshire though. Everything would end up being ultimately a guess.

But I guess that's how you learn.

>>183856698
>he's actually trying to compare clicking a 'you can't see me' button and therefore entirely undermining risk with a predetermined matrix of locations throughout the map that everyone knows and everyone can use
That's the kind of dumb I'm glad I never had to deal with for myself.

Entering bushes should have a ~1second fade time before you're Stealthed btw. Would make it less open to exploitation.

>>183856771
>It is ENTIRELY the onus of the designers to make that hero viable.
You cant do that given a completely unpredictable environment, you have to assume some level of choice or thought is being put into it. There's a reason why they don't try to get all talents to equal pick rates; they know that some are going to be picked less than others; they do try to get them to roughly equal win-rates though.

>Incoherent quickmatch shitter ranting and squealing "I WANT TO BE ABLE TO PLAY *MY* HERO IN EVERY MAAAAAAAAATCH, I WANT TO BEEEE A ONE TRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK".
Shut up, fuck off, you're a moron. Go back to league if you want to be a retarded onetrick.

>>183856940
His argument is essentially that Draft is 'better' because it forces you to waste 5 minutes being bored before every match so that the match has a chance of being more balanced, because Blizzard can't balance their own game. It's up to you if you consider the wasted time/effort to be worth that.

>>183856771
>getting this triggered over a fucking video game
grow up faggot. how do you even function on a day to day basis honestly

>>183856940
Put some thought into things anon. Battlefield's objective is super strong (but it doesnt hit back), and being a two-lane map the dominant strategy is 1:4 split.

So you want a solo laner, and things that are good at pve damage (artanis, greymane, valla). It's also a pushing objective so stuff like Sylvanas can make it a lot more powerful.

>if Lt. Morales doesn't work on Dragonshire though
Morales is super vulnerable to getting flanked and she's not a very strong fighter. She isn't great on dragon shire, but healers like malfurion with his roots and silence can be great at securing kills.

Where morales does shine is on braxis, where its difficult to flank and get in on her, and her ridiculously high throughput healing means her team can out-sustain yours in a fight for the objective.

>>183857127
>being a quickmatch only shitter
Don't be this retarded kids.

>>183856041
I have seen stukovs with 90k at 10min into the game.

>>183856771
Why are you playing a team game with different maps when you don't care about teamplay and map-specific strengths?
Go play fitegames.

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>>183856041
Why is Stukov such a low winrate when he beats all other healing in the game by miles?

>>183857631
pro fgc players still have multiple characters they're good at and might pick different ones depending on their opponent
making different choices in different situations is apparently literally cancer, though, so maybe anon should stick to babbymode single player games

>>183857118
>You cant do that given a completely unpredictable environment
There's literally nothing unpredictable about the environment you pathetic mong. Every single variable in the algorithm was put there by the game designers. It is ENTIRELY their responsibility to balance that algorithm. You are defending talentless game designers and promoting the idea of players having to waste 5 minutes before each match being bored so that that match can (theoretically) be less shitty. Pretty much the definition of victim blaming, heh. The blame is entirely on the developers, because the responsibility is entirely on them.

>There's a reason why they don't try to get all talents to equal pick rates; they know that some are going to be picked less than others
Sounds exactly like something that someone with your mindset would say and be perfectly fine with.

I want everyone to have the freedom to play who the fuck they want, you autism-ridden literal subhuman. Your argument (again) redirects all blame from the only people who are responsible for balancing the game to the players, and rationalizes all unjust inconvenience to them. In all fucking seriousness, what the fuck is wrong with you and anyone who thinks like this?

>muh League
Not only is League shit anyway, don't they have Boring Mode (Draft) in their ranked game as well? Or is someone there actually wising up?

But really, go the Magic the Gathering forums and tell them their opponent should be able to ban cards out of their deck before each match because of the 'completely unpredictable environment'. I'd love to see the responses.

>>183857749
>people pick him
>do nothing but use his E and feed

>>183856770
>our only source of reliable CC is Brightwing
>keeps using it on whatever's in range whenever she has it up, feels like
>Tracer just blinks in, kills her or Valla and makes it out safely
>multiple people ask her to save her W
>shut up :) ty

like
aight

>somehow make it to level 20
>she burns W on enemy tank
>Tracer jumps in and kills her
>wow team no peel
gonna kms myself

>>183856771
>it is ENTIRELY on the onus of the game designers to make that hero viable

I want a genuine answer from you how you think this game could have 68 unique hero's that if they were always good and never dependent on team comp, enemy comp, or map that they all wouldn't be the same generic boring trash

>>183856771
>I play to win with the hero I want to use to play the game with.
I bet you're the type of chucklehead that throws games when people ban nova on you.

I never queue into a draft mode with the idea of "I will only play this hero", I will adjust my criteria of what I "want" to play based on what my team shows and what the map is. There's a lot of variety to be had and I'm not bored due to autistically grinding out one hero. If it's a good map and a good comp I'll play almost anything that I feel reasonably practiced with, and guess what, it's actually *fun*. Matches aren't completely based upon the whims of the very loose rules that the matchmaker has. You never have to see ridiculous mirror matches. If something is horrifically unbalanced you can ban it!

>>183857501
>Boring Mode is the 'real' mode
Nice meme, manchild.
>playing god-awful boring shit mode more than the 10 matches to get rewards

>>183857631
>>183857631
What does any of the shit have to do with you twats defending talentless game designers who outsource the balancing of their game to the players?

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>>183857812
why are you so fucking angry

>league is shit
>literally doesn't know enough about it to say whether it has a draft or not

can you go be a dickhead somewhere else

>>183856951
Wait, are you saying that the current stealth some heroes have makes them too easy to recover from positioning mistakes?
And giving that to every hero in the game would make positioning somehow more important?

>>183857127
Eh. A game with this many variables would need a massive overhaul to simplify the gameplay in order to make every combination balanced in all scenarios. I've heard your POV a hundred times over, man. I may only really play QM, but I'm not expecting the world here the way you seem to.

>>183857391
Those were just some examples, but fair enough, I should be able to extrapolate from the structure of the maps. I'll admit, I'm shockingly ignorant of this game beyond the basics. I'm never surprised by a talent or skill a hero has and I have a general outline of the strategy per map as well as what heroes directly counter others, but that's about it.

Appreciate the advice.

>>183858023
>I bet you're the type of chucklehead that throws games when people ban nova on you.
I don't play Stealth characters. No one should have to deal with the hero they want to play being 'banned' from them though. That anyone would defend that obviously retarded game design is genuinely baffling to me.

>I never queue into a draft mode
You should put a period right there. Again, the ranked modes that should exist are Blind Pick Team/Solo. You pick who you want, then you play the fucking game (crazy, huh?), and game balance is left up to (wait for it...) the game designers! What an idea!

>There's a lot of variety to be had and I'm not bored due to autistically grinding out one hero
The above system supports both play styles.

>If something is horrifically unbalanced you can ban it!
Or the devs can balance it! Again, why do you defend game designers not doing their only job while forcing the players to be bored while doing it for them?

>>183857812
>promoting the idea of players having to waste 5 minutes before each match being bored
I am literally ADHD and I am never 'bored' in draft. What kind of twitchy non-existent attention span do you have, have you been alt-tabbing through too many facebook feeds while watching youtube? How the fuck did you ruin your attention span this badly. And once again, drafts take maybe 3 minutes.

>Sounds exactly like something that someone with your mindset would say and be perfectly fine with.
It is entirely correct to be perfectly fine with it, because there is nothing wrong with it.

>I want everyone to have the freedom to play who the fuck they want
I guess by now we've established that you're delusional and out of touch with reality. Hell the "welcome to heroes of the storm" video that blizz released basically outright states in several different layers that 'certain things will be better in certain scenarios, from hero picks to talent choices'. It is near impossible to get things to a point where all choices are functionally equal, there will always be a heirarchy of objectively superior decisions.

That isn't "shitty game design", that's just you sperging out over your delusions. It's balanced imbalance.

>But really, go the Magic the Gathering forums and tell them their opponent should be able to ban cards out of their deck before each match because of the 'completely unpredictable environment'.
Comparing apples to assholes. Being someone who played magic frequently and skirted the edges of the local scene, magic has an entirely different set of solutions. People design their decks around what is currently popular in the meta and decks aren't "good" if they cant deal with other meta decks. And they have their sideboards, which is "Oh hey, this asshole is running this piece of imbalance, well this card happens to absolutely shit all over it, so I'll add 3 to my deck in exchange for swapping out 3 cards that don't deal with it well".

>>183858171
I haven't played league since 2011 when they reworked Tryndamere's playstyle and he was no longer fun to play. I played him exclusively to Diamond in ranked btw.
>tfw one buttmad shitter told me to play Amumu
>I instalock Tryndamere and say "I only play Tryndamere" and he ragequits
>he's in my next match on the enemy team
>I shitstomp him
Good times.

>>183857812
>But really, go the Magic the Gathering forums and tell them their opponent should be able to ban cards out of their deck before each match because of the 'completely unpredictable environment'. I'd love to see the responses.
You've tried really fucking hard to force this argument before, but functionally sideboards and meta-knowledge aren't any different from hero bans. Not that the comparison is in any way accurate, it's just delusional irrelevant whataboutery.

>>183858703
Congradulations anon, you have set the bar at a new low (or high?) for the most tremendously fucking stupid person I've ran into online.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I think you should fuck off and go somewhere else, and I pray you die in a housefire.

>>183858150
Drafting is a part of the game. It is taken into account when they're balancing it. You're intentionally deciding to skip it and then complaining about balance.
It's like saying margherita pizza is shit, but every time you've made one you didn't put tomatoes or cheese on it.

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What did they mean by this?

>>183858930
>What kind of twitchy non-existent attention span do you have
I just want to do the thing I double-clicked the HotS icon for: Actually play the fucking game.

>It is entirely correct to be perfectly fine with it, because there is nothing wrong with it.
No, having shittily designed and worthless traits isn't 'perfectly fine' by ANYONE's reasonable standards you fuckwad. Again, WHY do you people DEFEND talentless game designers who aren't doing their jobs? What do you gain from it?!??

>I guess by now we've established that you're delusional and out of touch with reality
No, it's just an empty platitude by yourself. The welcome video example doesn't detract AT ALL from my point, because someone who wants to only play one hero can still be viable in whatever role that is for his team (tank/support/whatever), unless, you know, his hero gets 'banned'.

It's funny you engaged my Magic example but so clearly showed an inability to undermine it. Both examples you gave are present in HotS and translate as an analogy quite well:

>People design their decks around what is currently popular in the meta and decks aren't "good" if they cant deal with other meta decks
This would exist in a Team Blind Pick mode as well. Obviously so.

>And they have their sideboards
Those are called traits in HotS. There's many traits you 'sideboard' in against certain heroes.

I really want to know what makes people's initial response to these issues to automatically defend the game designers, though. It's fucking absolute insanity to me.

>>183859295
Don't stand in range of the exploding mech.

>>183859210
>Drafting is a part of the game
So are several other shitty things that shouldn't be part of the game, hence this conversation. Bear in mind that most things from this game were actually just arbitrarily copied directly from a Warcraft III mod from 15 years ago without being rebalanced or fixed. Insanely stupid shit like Draft is one of those things.

>It is taken into account when they're balancing it. You're intentionally deciding to skip it and then complaining about balance.
ie - It's a crutch used to justify their LACK of ability to balance the game. Nice attempt at politicking that, though.

>It's like saying margherita pizza is shit, but every time you've made one you didn't put tomatoes or cheese on it.
No, it's more like saying that I shouldn't have to waste time cooking my own margherita pizza because that's the fucking cook's job. You're the guy defending the lazy, shitty cook.

>>183859636
>Again, WHY do you people DEFEND talentless game designers who aren't doing their jobs? What do you gain from it?!??
Asserting it over and over doesn't make it more true. The game is balanced around the idea of a draft, there is a reason why quickmatch isn't called "fair and balanced game mode". It is literally throw shit together quickly.

>This would exist in a Team Blind Pick mode as well. Obviously so.
Except your own desires completely undermine that, you want everything to be equally likely, which makes your 'blind pick' mode completely retarded. There is a reason why no "moba" game has competitive blind pick (the only exception was LoL games in series where absolutely nothing mattered and that was only in korea and it happened for maybe two or three games in the hundreds per season and as said, literally affected nothing).

Game designers will never be as quick to react to shit as players will be, and as you introduce more permutations into the game the need for additional bans to cut down on shenanigans increases. It is literally a method of saying 'No, you do not get to build a cheese comp. You will have to make due with second best'.

Drafting is part of the game you tremendous tard. You are not correct, stop being an autistic faggot about things.

>>183859636
>Those are called traits in HotS
I meant 'talents' not traits.

>>183858396
>I'll admit, I'm shockingly ignorant of this game beyond the basics
More than 90% of the community is. General game knowledge in hots is extremely low, partially because people aren't forced to learn anything when quick-match is available.

>>183859636
You aren't playing the game though, drafting is a fundamental part of the game.
It's like wearing shoes that you took the laces out of. If you don't want to deal with laces just find another pair that has those velcro patches or wear crocs, don't complain about how the ones you have now are shit.
Stop being a poopbutt.

>>183860403
The problem is that the game doesnt even try to explain anything to you.

>>183860514
Sure it does, you just need to not be playing quickmatch to figure out "Hey holy crap, drafting [hero] here led to a loss because they took the whole map away from us and I couldn't do anything to them", "drafting x vs y led to z situation repeatedly, maybe x is good/bad vs y".

>>183860030
My dude you've still yet to address how the fuck you balance 69 heroes so that any random combination of 5 of them is perfectly balanced. I'm not going to do the math on how many combinations of 5 from a pool of 69 you could pick but it's a fucking lot.

Like for your ideal world any hero strenghts/weaknesses would just need to be straight up removed. Sylvanas is fucking great on maps like shrines/boe for snowballing an early advantage but pretty shit on cursed hollow cause both her splitpush and teamfight is bad, guess we should balance her to just be generally good at everything. And then we gotta do that for every other fucking hero that might give any kind of advantage against an enemy team comp. You got a random grab bag of autoattackers while the enemy got Cassia and Johanna? Tough titties. Or maybe you get Cassia and Johanna into double mage and they're mediocre as fuck. Guess we should balance them to be neither generically strong nor weak against any particular comp, like every other hero

Also queue times for this game are already stupid high for ranked, especially the higher you climb. Your system of I'll queue assassin along with 5,000 other people cause who the fuck wants to play support and then DEMAND the game put you in a balanced match with a support double warrior double damage is fucking dumb. You know why that doesn't happen in qm? Because no one is queuing those heroes, and you'd just be back to whining about high queue times and probably quit

tl;dr you're a fucking idiot

>>183860514
This.

I had to dig shit up like ARMOR vs PHYSICAL ARMOR vs SPELL ARMOR and stuff like damage types from wikis that datamined this shit instead of something in the game telling me this.

>>183860686
sorry anon but that's not an argument you're just shitposting and I'm not the other anon.

>>183859206
>Congradulations anon, you have set the bar at a new low (or high?) for the most tremendously fucking stupid person I've ran into online.
Genius IQ and make six figures. /shrug

>>183859046
>functionally sideboards and meta-knowledge aren't any different from hero bans
With the colossal difference that sideboards don't stop your opponent from playing the deck he wants to play
>sideboards = talents
>meta = meta
Translates quite well, actually.

>>183860173
>The game is balanced around the idea of the devs inability to succeed at their jobs
Nice argument. Are you the same guy with the moronic pizza analogy as well?

>you want everything to be equally likely
No, that's a strawman that was never said. I want players to have the freedom to play who they want to, and each hero to have a degree of competitive viability within a standard deviation of other heroes fitting the same role - ie to not suck - that is, for the devs to succeed at basic game balance

>There is a reason why no "moba" game has competitive blind pick
And that reason is because all MOBAs are directly copy/pasted from a single Warcraft III mod made by a single guy. They're inbred, essentially. And it shows, badly.

>It is literally a method of saying 'No, you do not get to build a cheese comp. You will have to make due with second best'.
Which should be accomplished by the devs actually doing their jobs during testing, which is the point of testing. The cool thing about video games is they can be patched to fix imbalances. Your argument really is just 'its too hard for game designers to do their jobs so we have to do it'. It's been that in every post you've made.

>a shitty mechanic is part of the game you tremendous tard
see >>183860030

>>183860779
it says so in the description of related talents, how retarded can you get? fucking millenials

>>183860942
It doesn't tell you about general ARMOR or that every hero has 25 of it.

>>183860779
Armor is one of the tooltips on loading screens though. It outright tells you "some heroes have armor" and gives a small list of them. Much like dota a lot of it is on you memorizing what heroes are, what their abilities are and etc.

As far as heroes with armor. Arthas + Johanna have physical armor, Anub and Tyrael have spell armor. Varian has armor from taunt, Greymane has armor in worgen form, Cho's trait is armor (competes with gall's spell damage trait). Stitches doesn't have armor but has a very low cooldown level 1 spell shield that people often associate with having spell armor even though he doesn't.

Lots of other heroes have talents for various kinds of armor.

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>>183861034
>every hero has 25 armor

anon where did you read that because it's not true

>>183857821
Or even worse, think that they are the best damage dealers, take all W talents and use D on enemies they manage to hit with it instead of healing teammates
Oh and shoving people to safety

>>183861034
Nope.
https://psionic-storm.com/en/comparateur-heros/#d=armor

>>183860030
So the cook is lazy because he asked you what you wanted on your pizza, you said "i don't care" and he STILL didn't get it right?
>>183860938
>genius iq
>can't grasp what core genre mechanics are
Be honest, have you ever complained that an fps is too focused on aiming at things you want to shoot, something that was copy/pasted from a game that came out 25 years ago?

>>183860743
>My dude you've still yet to address how the fuck you balance 69 heroes so that any random combination of 5 of them is perfectly balanced
This is the best counter-question asked ITT so far so I wanted to give it enough time for a due answer, but I've been bombarded with lots of moronic posts. I feel like a gladiator fighting four randos at once.

Firstly, I never said they should be perfectly balanced. I somewhat addressed it in this post: >>183860938 with:
>I want players to have the freedom to play who they want to, and each hero to have a degree of competitive viability within a standard deviation of other heroes fitting the same role - ie to not suck - that is, for the devs to succeed at basic game balance

On to
>Sylvanas is fucking great on maps like shrines/boe for snowballing an early advantage but pretty shit on cursed hollow cause both her splitpush and teamfight is bad
These are the types of things I'm talking about which are good. Heroes should have strengths and weakness, but no weakness or strength should be so bad that you simply have no chance against any other hero of your role.

You HAVE to pick this hero for this map, or you can NEVER pick this hero on this other map = shit game design.

Certain mechanics that are hard counters to entire classes should be looked into anyway at being rebalanced.

>and you'd just be back to whining about high queue times and probably quit
No, that's actually an entirely reasonable price to pay for playing the exact hero you want to. It's simply a mechanic issue that can't be helped, and not a game mechanical flaw. I have thought about this exact thing, and have zero problem with it.

>>183860938
>Genius IQ and make six figures. /shrug
>lying on 4chan
Time to go back to /r/iamverysmart. I'm sure you're a 10/10 with a 24 inch long penis too. I guarantee you that anyone who was legitimately "genius IQ" and making 6 figures would have a lot better things to do than shitpost on 4chan.

>Translates quite well, actually.
No, it doesn't because you're still trying to force an irrelevant comparison.

> I want players to have the freedom to play who they want to, and each hero to have a degree of competitive viability within a standard deviation of other heroes fitting the same role - ie to not suck - that is, for the devs to succeed at basic game balance
You do realise the only outcome from this convoluted statement is that draft mode still ends up being the most balanced way to play.

>They're inbred, essentially.
The one game that bucks the genre trends and is somewhat competently developed and you want to force a bunch of incestuous nonsense on it. So much for "genius IQ" (what online test did you take, oh mr.mensa).

>waaaaaah devs why don't you make it peeeeeeeeerfect, why cant it be flawless and perfect!

>>183861686
>So the cook is lazy because he asked you what you wanted on your pizza, you said "i don't care" and he STILL didn't get it right?
Actually genius anon!

>>183861686
Has the shitty pizza analogy not worn thin for you yet?

>MOBAs are unique among all games because the devs' talentless inability to balance the game is actually... PART of the game!
No matter how much you spin this silly shit it won't be true. Draft was tacked onto a Warcraft III mod 15 years ago to outsource the balancing of the game to the players rather than the only people responsible: the developers. Draft is not a requirement for five characters to fight inside a virtual arena in isometric view. Get the fuck out with that laughable shit.

>Be honest, have you ever complained that an fps is too focused on aiming at things you want to shoot, something that was copy/pasted from a game that came out 25 years ago?
You're really bad at this whole analogies thing. No, I haven't complained about FPS's being about aiming at and shooting things (an ACUTAL core genre mechanic) but I would certainly complain if my opponent could ban me from using my gun before a match because it was favorable against the armor type he chose. What god awful fucking gameplay that would be, and what sludge-dwelling level of moron would actually defend it?

>>183861820
>I feel like a gladiator fighting four randos at once.
Have you considered that the only reason you're being dogpiled so badly is because you're overwhelmingly wrong and that you've failed to carry any of your thoughts or ideas through to their logical conclusion? You're not being persecuted you're just a stupid asshole.

You have demonstrated critical lack of understanding about the game genre and the process of balancing, all while ranting incessantly about stupid shit and going off on wild tangents.

>I want to play this multiplayer team game like a single-player game and it should be the most efficient way to do it or the game devs are incompetent mongrels

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It ends now

>>183862437
>Draft was tacked onto a Warcraft III mod 15 years ago to outsource the balancing of the game to the players
You have got it partially right here. Draft was added at the request of the players. Why? Because dominant strategies existed. Drafting and banning allowed people to "break up" the dominant strategies and get some variety into their games, and deal with things in a reasonable balanced manner.

It is psychotically unreasonable to expect developers to ever get an ever fluctuating game into a state of perfect balance.

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>>183861820
But see people don't play ranked mode to play their favorite hero, they play it to win. When you have heroes that excel in a niche like Sgt. Hammer, Sylvanas, Medivh, Butcher, Tassadar, Abathur that require some level of coordination and team support (or fuck even heroes that are just good on some maps like Falstad for his global but kinda weak on any smaller map that's not Hanamura), people aren't gonna play those heroes. Like even less so than they already do.

So what would happen is everyone just queues generally safe heroes, the ones you would first pick in draft anyway. Greymane, Anub'arak, Malthael, Uther, Genji, those sorts. Outside of the problem of high queue times this also just makes things really....boring. Every match is going to play out mostly the same because everyone will queue mostly the same heroes. Sure maybe you'll have the guy fucking excited to be playing Medivh in ranked, but his rating will tank like a mother fucker. Even a hero like Sylvanas, who isn't awful but also isn't particularly great most of the time is going to have a pretty low winrate and fall into like silver league eventually, compared to the person who is saying "I'm only queuing Greymane" and then you get to diamond the world is suddenly full of "I'm only playing Greymane" and every game is so similar they all blur together.

You COULD buff those heroes, sure, but it would only be in the sense of dumbing them down. We know Medivh and Abathur are fucking fantastic heroes, Aba in particular had like a 90% winrate at MSB. The only thing holding them back in HL is team coordination in draft, you remove that they're just borderline useless

Yes you would be "free" to pick whatever hero you wanted to play in ranked, but let's be real you'd have 0 chance to climb with a good chunk of the roster, and likely get flamed and mass reported by your team cause you queued your favorite hero instead of one of the 15 meta ones.

It's just not healthy for the game or playerbase

>>183861913
>I guarantee you that anyone who was legitimately "genius IQ" and making 6 figures would have a lot better things to do than shitpost on 4chan.
I'm not actually shitposting, though. I'm trying to explain the most basic of game design principles to you so you can stop feeling good about defending lazy, talentless game designers.

>No, it doesn't because you're still trying to force an irrelevant comparison.
You haven't made any compelling argument how Magic doesnt translate to HotS other than continuing to say so. I sure hope you weren't the guy who made the FPS analogy, too.

I can even tell you which Magic mechanics are analogous to Stun in HotS: Land destruction, hand destruction, and counter-spells. Guess which mechanics Wizards have taken steps to drastically reduce in effectiveness the last few years?

>waaaaaah devs why don't you make it peeeeeeeeerfect, why cant it be flawless and perfect!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

>and you want to force a bunch of incestuous nonsense on it
You were good here until this part. Draft is the incenstuous part. It's derived from a single mod made by a single person. Blizzard was smart enough to remove cancerous shit like 'denying', 'last-hitting', and wards, though.

>You do realise the only outcome from this convoluted statement is that draft mode still ends up being the most balanced way to play.
...because the devs are bad at their jobs and thus need the players to do it for them? You've been saying that the whole thread.

Regardless, there needs to be a ranked mode for people who actually want to play the game instead of being bored denying their opponent from using the hero they want to use before each match. That's literally all I'm asking for, and the autismo legions come out in defense of their talentless game designers overlords in response. It's weird.

Regardless of what your opinion of game balance might be (haven't fully read the entire quotewar desu), the idea that a handful of devs should just perfectly balance the game with every iteration because "that's their job" is idiotic -- their job is to design first and foremost, the balance can only be tweaked after player feedback and quantitative data, measured in thousands and thousands of games.

The idea that bans and drafting are crutches to justify poor balance is objectively wrong, after all no hero is universally considered overpowered or boasts a win rate of 80% at the highest levels, the best hover at 55% and the worst at 45%. Some of the current "strongest" heroes (according to general perception and win rates) can be countered by some of the "weakest" heroes, which can only mean that any and every hero is "viable" given the proper situation or player skill.

Bans are tools given to players to reduce variance and in turn open up strategic team composition.
There is never an enforced team composition, nor should there be. A team of triple supports and no tank can be perfectly viable and lethal. It's up to the players themselves to decide so, and bans and drafting help with that. To remove that freedom from players is to assume that they're incapable of making the conscious decision of weaknesses/strengths balancing themselves.

>>183863092
>lazy, talentless game designers.
abloobloobloo.
>still trying to force the MTG comparison
hurr durr
>look guys I know what logical fallacies are!

>more retarded shit
I'm done anon, I have more important things to do than further engage in this idiocy with you. Literally no one agrees with you, but we cannot make you not be wrong. Just like we cannot make you not constantly shitpost. Have fun with your double-digit IQ.

>>183863313
>haven't fully read the entire quotewar
Don't, it isnt worth it.

>>183862437
It hasn't worn thin because it was a good analogy.
You want to play a specific hero, you don't want him to have any weaknesses that require the support of your team, you don't want him to have strengths which can be balanced by having specific counters, you don't want him to have mechanics that can be good on some maps and bad on others and all of this looks like a good idea to you.
You don't want to play hots, a game where you go into a match and try to win, you want to play xyzhero simulator, a game in which you are xyzhero and everything is magically fair so you don't ever have to feel bad for being a sub-optimal choice.
You are a waifufag, except worse because your love isn't strong enough to carry you through the losses.

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>>183863313
>mfw watching grubby in an all GM game win with no support no tank vs a double support comp

like that shits cool, if you didn't have draft you couldn't actually go "you know what, they have 0 poke, let's just go for fat damage" and bulldoze people in 10 minutes

>>183862770
>Why? Because dominant strategies existed
And why? Because the dev team COULDNT BALANCE THE FUCKING GAME.

And why? Because the dev team was one fucking guy in his spare time on a pre-existing game engine. What's Blizzard's fucking excuse?

>a state of perfect balance.
This strawman again. The last line of this post >>183863092 addresses the entirety of what should be done.

>>183863051
>But see people don't play games for fun
wew. You're committing a false dichotomy fallacy regardless. Each hero should be competitively viable within its role, and thus each person could play their favorite hero and still be competitively viable, even if not optimal.

>Yes you would be "free" to pick whatever hero you wanted to play in ranked, but let's be real you'd have 0 chance to climb with a good chunk of the roster, and likely get flamed and mass reported by your team cause you queued your favorite hero instead of one of the 15 meta ones.
This is exactly the kind of baffling thought-process that you drones keep demonstrating.
>instead of one of the 15 meta ones.
>15 meta ones.
This is the devs not doing their fucking jobs. That's entirely their fucking responsibility, and that's where 100% of the fault lies in the scenario you just described.

>>183863664
I think what you mean to say is that having different matches is extremely bad because you have severe autism and any sort of change sends you into a berserk tardrage.

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I am sick. I am SICK. DO YOU HEAR ME? ARE YOU HEARING MY WORDS THROUGH THIS TEXT? I AM DONE. FINISHED. IT'S OVER. ALL OF YOU ABATHUR HATERS CAN GO TO YOUR NEAREST INN N OUT TO SUCK THE HAIRIEST COCK IN THE WASHROOM.

WE SPEND THE ENTIRE GAME SUPPORTING YOUR ASSES, PUSHING THE LANE YOU CUNTS WERE TOO LAZY TO PAY ATTENTION TO, PROVIDING IMPECCABLE VISION GLOBALLY THROUGHOUT THE MAP FOR YOUR SHITBRAINS TO THROW THE GAME WITH YOUR MENTAL INCOMPETENCE.

Here's a friendly tip: THE NEXT FUCKING TIME ABATHUR PINS ON SOMETHING, IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD FUCKING IDEA TO GO SEE WHAT THE FUCK THE DEAL IS. DON'T GO GANKING. DON'T GO CLEAR A WAVE. DON'T EVEN BOTHER SAVING A FAGGOT ASS TEAMMATE. LISTEN. TO. YOUR. ABATHUR.

Every fucking time there's one of you faggots that virtually forget about Abathur's existence. God how I wish you were in the enemy team so I could slide this Zerg dick down your throat and out your ass until the vibrating force of my ejaculation rearranges your molecular strands into a BETTER AND USEFUL ADDITION TO THE GOD DAMN TEAM. Fuck you, FUCK you, and FUCK YOU. Good fucking night.

>>183863545
>I'm done anon
I accept your capitulation. None of what you put in this post actually addressed anything it was responding to, and you haven't given a single argument against the Magic comparison. It's pretty fucking apt in a lot of situations, at least in a general sense.

>>183863561
>It hasn't worn thin because it was a good analogy.
Just like your equally retarded FPS analogy?

>You are a waifufag, except worse because your love isn't strong enough to carry you through the losses.
What losses? My 'waifu' got 'banned' by my opponent so I never got to play the character I wanted to. Of course I banned the hero he wanted to play too, so even though neither one of us had fun, at least it was equally un-fun for each of us.

>You want to play a specific hero, you don't want him to have any weaknesses that require the support of your team, you don't want him to have strengths which can be balanced by having specific counters, you don't want him to have mechanics that can be good on some maps and bad on others and all of this looks like a good idea to you.
All of this is just simply wrong, and was never said ITT. I WANT my hero to have plenty of weaknesses I work around, and bad matchups, etc. I just want him to be viable within his role. Not the best, not optimal. Viable. I also don't want to have to waste 5 minutes chosing the heroes my opponent can't play before a match. I want him to have the freedom to play whomever he wants to, and for his hero to also be viable within its given role. That is, for the game designers to succeed at their jobs. That's literally it.

>>183863836
There is a game mode where you don't have to worry about any of that though, just play against the easy ai and you'll never have to worry about bans, counters or strategies. Queues are shorter too.

>>183863996
Unacceptable.

>>183863836
>And why? Because the dev team COULDNT BALANCE THE FUCKING GAME
No. Because dominant strategies will literally always exist. The more complex your game is the more likely that dominant strategies will exist. There will always be a hierarchy of objectively better decisions. Always. Your incessant screeching about 'balancing the fucking game' is completely invalid.

>This strawman again. The last line of this post >183863092 addresses the entirety of what should be done.
>>183863561
You literally would not know what "playing the game" looks like even if it beat you to death with a shovel. You have a conceptualization of this game that is entirely divorced from the reality of what it actually is.

>>183863996
I'll just ban Abathur so you can't even play him. Then you won't have any fun at all. Of course that won't be the devs' fault for letting me do that to you, oh no.

>>183836912
>when this fucker want's to disgrace Gul'dan with deflection.

Don't you dare taint my boi like that nigger.

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>>183864228
>I accept your capitulation.
Ah yep, step one to internet 'debating', declare yourself the winner immediately so when you screech at someone with incoherent shit until they leave, either out of frustration, boredom or a simple unwillingness to deal with your stupidity any longer, you can claim that you actually achieved victory!

No one agrees with you, you were not right about anything, you didn't "win" the debate. I just don't want to waste any more fucking time on giving you (you)'s.

>>183863836
>But see people don't play games for fun

I did not say that, I said people play ranked to win. And for a lot of people, winning ranked games is fun. For a lot of people, playing Lunara endlessly is fun, and that's why qm exists, to get to play Lunara in a match as fast as possible. Do not talk about logical fallacies and then stuff words into my mouth.

I didn't really get to make this point in my post but basically, what you are advocating for would involve the devs being forced to dumb down and remove the nuances of various heroes that only work because it assumes coordination of teammates in draft. Making everyone as generally good as Anub/Greymane/Uther is just making the game boring and uselessly bloated, there's no point in having all these heroes if they are all roughly equal in all situations. And even then they won't be roughly equal, no game with a cast larger than like, 10 heroes is going to be, ever. There will ALWAYS be a hero who is 5% more efficient in a role than another, and because of how metas work people will massively queue the 5% more efficient hero.

>>183864268
Nice reductio ad absurdum. I like it. I'll requote the core of my point from this post>>183864228 for you though:
>I want my hero to be viable within his role. Not the best, not optimal. Viable. I also don't want to have to waste 5 minutes chosing the heroes my opponent can't play before a match. I want him to have the freedom to play whomever he wants to, and for his hero to also be viable within its given role. That is, for the game designers to succeed at their jobs. That's literally it.

>>183864330
>No. Because dominant strategies will literally always exist.
As long as there exist viable (again, not optimal) counter-strategies there's nothing wrong with this. It certainly doesn't necessitate wasting time removing my opponent's ability to play the hero he wants to play before a match.

>The more complex your game is the more likely that dominant strategies will exist
And the onus of the devs is to remove excessively dominant ones to allow for a balance, varietal playing field. See: Every competitive game in existence that manages to be successful without 'bans' before every match.

>the perfect game mode would be QM with mirrored teams
top kek

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I'm going to join your game and then just sit in the spawn area, occasionally doing something so I'm not kicked for being AFK. If you're lucky, I'll post a smiley face in allied chat.

:^)

Remember thread by playing quickmatch you support people with mental illnesses like >>183864757 He is indicative of the absolute retardation you will have for teammates. Stop playing quickmatch today!

>>183864542
Remove the buzzwords in that pic with logical arguments you couldn't counter, and you've got it.

>No one agrees with you
That's a neat ad populum and all, but I've out-argued rooms of people before. The literally ONLY core argument that all of you have, digging through all of your white noise, is the same fucking thing you started in with: "the devs can't possibly balance their own game, so we have to waste time before each match doing it instead". Fuck that.

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>>183865026
Sure champ

>>183864781
>there are people that actually want mirrored teams
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE

>>183864940
>He's mentally ill, guys! He wants the devs to actually balance their game instead of making us waste time to do it!
Pay no mind to the guy with shitty arguments behind the curtain, etc.

>>183864908
Who are you talking to?

>>183864781
>this again
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

>>183863996
kek

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Why is Cassia so good?

Holy shit she's amazing. Best girl.

When will they fix QM matchmaking? Abathur is still being thrown against Tyrande and Tassadar who are clearly completely different roles. Abathur is more of an assasin role in most games

>>183864228
Every hero is viable in their own role though, every character can win every game as long as you're good enough. Is there a damage dealer that doesn't deal damage? A support that can't help their team? A tank that can't protect them in any way, even if it is just outright killing the enemy team? No, there isn't, some are just harder to use and some of them require specific teammates to reach their full potential.
In your dream scenario what happens when the randomly assigned support on your team is based around being good at helping autoattacking damage dealers and terrible with casters? What would mean viable in this case? Autowinning when paired with a valla, but also being good enough as all the others when he gets put on a team with jaina? Or did the good daddy developer take care of that and made it so heroes only get placed in teams that work with them?

>>183865393
it's just quick match bro. who cares if we win. don't be such a tryhard, i play heroes for FUN you nerd

>>183865382
Would Cassia win vs WONDERWOMAN

>>183864757
probably cause no other genre has the metric shitton of characters MOBAs do, and even then competitive games exist where players do have map/weapon bans so I really don't see your point about this supreme hatred for bans

Also you vastly overestimate how many dominant strategies and counter strategies would exist in a game where every character is equally viable. Currently in hots there are strategies revolving entirely around 1 sole hero doing 1 specific thing, or some specific interaction between heroes, that lends the game a lot of variety with how many viable strategies you can choose from on any given moment

When you throw all of that out the window to say "screw it, everyone good at all times, there's never a situation where a hero is bad" you crap all over the depth of this frankly already kind of shallow game. Like look at competitive first person shooters that give you a choice of 'heroes' (or classes w/e) and the meta is nearly always cemented as shit. Team Fortress 2 6v6 has been mostly the same shit for literally a decade now, Overwatch has a more fluid meta because of semi-regular balance changes but overall there's maybe like, 2 or 3 viable strategies and counter strategies at any given time in that game.

strategy and nuance > I play this hero only make it work

>>183865474
Don't come crying when you get an Abathur who is afk in base then

>>183865393
>QM matchmaking
feels like half of all hots comments/discussion can be boiled down to bitching about qm mm/comps

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There's a very specific feeling invoked in me seeing someone brag about their IQ and smugly responding with "X logical fallacy try harder next time, I've outargued rooms of people", I'm not sure what I'd call it exactly but I'd say it's a mixture of second hand embarrassment as disgust.

>>183865674
>>183854683

>>183865210
You're all big talking about how bad the balance of this game, how drafting is just a bad crutch to make the game more balanced. What do you propose to make the game more balanced? It sounds like you're assuming balance is just a few numbers changed away.
Also why the hell do you waste your valuable free time playing a game that is so obviously shitty?

>>183865674
Maybe they should fix the matchmaking then by adding enough matchmaking rules to make balanced teams

>>183865712
it's /r/iamverysmart leddit shit. an attempt to claim authority where none exists. an attempt to lend your arguments more weight than they have, because they are being ripped apart when left to stand on their own merit.