/4ccg/ - 4CC Edition

vae victis

benis

benis

this is a nice thread

>>182248931
οἴμοι

>>182248890
this has nothing to do with video games. your being such a stupid retard to think that this is the right place to post your little social media meme shit is pathetic. fuck off and get a life, shit stain.

>>182249323
I know this is a shitpost, but how is a general focused on extensively modding a video game not video games?

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>>182249291
που σε ρε πατριδα

pay denbts

>>182249118
That's just /4ccg/. The usual viewer doesn't see this.

>>182249465
You're either deluded or lying through your teeth. /4ccg/ has maybe 5% to do with game modification and 95% to do with what is essentially social media drama. Hint: almost nobody here actually knows how to modify the game.

When the cup stopped being its own thing and started being a vehicle for aspiring e-celebs to make their mark, it died. Ved getting involved was the beginning of the end. At least his shit was high quality. But as with all diseases, the trend progressed and the condition of the cup became worse and worse. We had no idea at the time that we were applauding the catalyst of the cup's demise, but that's exactly what it was. I'm sick of the hyp videos, I'm sick of the commentators, I'm sick of Boris and Sou and the newfag streamers, I'm sick of the fucking wiki and the nitpicking and hypocrisy over the rules, I'm sick of the ceaseless committee actions and polls and all the rest of it. It's jumped the shark. And if you don't like it, there's a dedicated contingent of like ten newfags who discovered 4chan within the last couple years who will tell you to gtfo, stop hating what they like, >no fun allowed, etc. and then run back to Discord to jerk each other off over telling that meanie grumpy pants what's what.

I hate all of you, but most of all I hate myself for helping ruin what I loved by being part of it. The cup should've died with Germanbro.

The only reason things are probably not that bad is that it happened during the /pol/eague. So instead of only one team being /pol/, everything was /pol/, and that's what may have triggered the mod. As long as the moderation issue doesn't spill over into the actual cup, it should be ok.

>>182250835
Pretty sure it was just the stadium. And things like /britpol/ or /sng/ or /ancap/ or /sg/ aren't even remotely offensive.

>>182250673
So, like all other /vg/ generals?

>>182250673
Well you're not wrong

>>182250978
Nah, the stadium was fine until now. It's the context it was used in that caused the shitstorm. And you have the refs, the competition logo, the swipe, etc. Basically /pol/ overload. Not using the stadium was a choice to reduce the heat.

>>182250990
>other threads are pure cancer, so it's okay that ours is pure cancer
Have some self respect for once in your life. You're somebody's son. People sacrificed so that you could live and make something of yourself. Don't waste the gift of life making such embarrassing excuses for something as truly awful as /4ccg/.

>>182251324
You're arguing it's not video games. I'm arguing it's as video games as the other generals, so there's no excuse for treating it differently.

>>182251324
And yet you're still here. Funny, that.

>>182251442
I'm not the anon that started that, I chimed in after. And the reason for treating it differently, if that's how you want to frame it, is self respect and caring about quality. This thread is only as bad as people allow it to be.

And this really isn't video games. It's endless wanking over namefags.

The whole "like the rest of /vg/?" line is a red herring anyway.

>>182250673
I thought you were just being a weak troll with your first message, but yeah.. I can't really find anything I disagree with here.

>>182251817
>caring about quality on /v/'s /trash/
Also, there's a shit ton of PES being streamed, it's most definitely video games. The shitposting is merely an intermission.

>>182251741
I'm not making any excuses for /4ccg/ and I don't do the things that I associate with making it worse. Nice ad hominem, though.

>>182251857
It's not a troll. I really feel that way. And yeah, I don't see how anybody could disagree other than said aspiring e-celebs or the peons that congregate around them in lieu of making real friends in the real world. Once I recognized that I was part of the problem, I stopped cold turkey. I wish others had the clarity to do likewise and let it die.

>>182252112
t. ony

>>182252112
Once you make it part of your identity though, it's pretty hard to leave cold turkey. I know there was a meltdown on here a couple months back over whether it was ok to refer to a cup "community", but like it or not you make friends through the cup and you talk about/play/do things with them that aren't always directly cup related. It's just something you have to deal with, even though I'd rather there be a clearer line between "Cup things where the person doing them is irrelevant", and "Things with friends that aren't the cup".

Being a little delusional if you don't think this thread is a perfect microcosm for /vg/, though. I don't think there's a single thread on this board where more than 25% of the posts are game-relevant.

>>182252112
>I don't do the things that I associate with making it worse
And those are?

Why is it that I feel like needing to take a shit every time it's chilly?

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>>182252112
>I stopped cold turkey
>let it die
>still here whining

Is it time, brothers?

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*walks away from the winter 18 cup*

>>182252403
I'm not saying you're wrong about /vg/. I'm saying we could do better, but choose not to.

>>182252860
>talking about the cup is the same thing as participating in it
I see you have an inflated sense of importance.

>>182253139
>I don't like the cup and don't want to see it anymore
>so I'm going to spend my free time in the the thread about the cup talking about the cup

>go on a weekend trip with my family
>come back
>/pol/ actually won something
wew
lad

>>182253376
I feel like you're focusing on the fact that he did the "You nerds should focus on REAL LIFE and GETTING LAID like COOL GUY ME" thing, and not the substance of his argument. Yeah, coming in here to tell us how much better off he is than us is a little cringeworthy, but he does make some good points. It just seems like a cop out to completely ignore them.

>>182253685
>all 99s /pol/ final boss conceded first
Seems about right

>>182253717
I'm not saying I'm better than anyone. I have like two "friends" in real life but I never see them. I said up front that I saw myself doing the behavior that was destroying the cup and that's why I bailed. Be the change you want to see in the world and all that. I admitted I was part of the problem, not a cool guy who's better than anyone.

I don't expect anyone to engage with the substance of what I said. If there was a willingness to do that, the cup would already either be dead or radically different.

>>182253376
I know all too well how hard it is to let go. I go weeks without checking in here and just happened to check in today. Eventually, hopefully, I'll stop for good.

>>182254023
your wife and kid don't count as friends PMB

>>182254489
>not "your wife and her kid"
What a missed opportunity.

>>182254005
I was just talking about the fact that /pol/ won the /pol/ league, not the final boss, but that works too.

>>182254023
>bent only has two IRL friends
No wonder he clings to Tony so hard

>>182252112
>in lieu of making real friends in the real world.

Nice projection

>>182256683
not an argument

less than 50 posts in and this thread is already shit

>>182257696
Do you know where you are?

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>page 9

>>182250673
Have my two cents.
In my opinion the Cup has become too much of a "serious business", unironically an e-sport. There are rules upon rules for something which at the start never dreamed about being fair.
The point of the Cup, as far as I got it, was to watch wacky football with memes, not to make it this amazing competition, all professional and shiny. Now it feels overproduced and overly competitive. I don't know when this changed, if it was managers or whatnot, but I think the Cup died the moment it started to be taken seriously, like a serious tournament where doing well actually matters something.
Maybe it's because people care too much about it, maybe they latched onto it, but in doing this it feels like they forgot what this is. It's a competition between 4chan boards. Some autism is to be expected, sure, but also some level of self awareness. It's a dumb thing really, and its really weird to see it getting turned into anything other than that.
The Cup also drew more people in over time, so of course it turned into a "community", for lack of a better term. And some people became closer, but I really don't think there's anything wrong with that per se. It's when this closeness turns from "let's do things together" to "let's do things together and pretend they are relevant to the Cup because we're "Cup people"" that it goes wrong.

>>182259290
>In my opinion the Cup has become too much of a "serious business", unironically an e-sport.
This. Literally remove managers. 48 teams. How this hasn't been done 4 years ago is a huge mystery.

>>182259290
>>182259429
Also, to give you some of the hottest hot takes: Pick x people (honestly given how this will be done you might as well dump this all on Durgen) who will prepare 32 tictacs per Cup complete with pastebins, trying to make some fun meme-y stuff with good variety , and RANDOMLY distribute them to teams. For Babbies make 16 more sane setups and randomly distribute them to teams which didn't promote for the last Elite to give them a better chance this time.
I can already see esports fags get assmad about this.

>>182260335
I would absolutely love this

t. big market manager

>>182259290
>I think the Cup died the moment it started to be taken seriously, like a serious tournament where doing well actually matters something.
This. It died the moment someone started calling the loser shit because it didn't win a RNG slot machine.

>>182260335
I've been saying this for months, it makes me smile to see other people saying the same thing.

>>182260335
Enjoy your 800 viewers elite finals when two no-market teams land on good tactics.

>>182260335
Why not make it 32 sets of the same tactics and place everything in the hands of RNGesus?

Because the second you assign different tactics at random, you'll get fans of various boards claiming it was rigged against them.

>>182261103
If all those viewers were in for the E S P O R T S, the cup was never for them in the first place.

>>182261491
The viewers are in to see their board play.

>>182261906
Then fuck them. The first cup had 16 boards in it and people still watched it. The point was seeing boards play against each other, not cheering for your specific board in a serious competition. Blowing up the cup with teams and managers and everything else killed it in spirit. Now the people who attached themselves to the corpse are beating it to death even more.

>>182262094
Kill yourself, you self-important scum.

>>182261103
>the amount of viewers matters
The goal is not to be the biggest stream on smashcast, the goal is to have fun anon

holy fucking shit dude

>>182262374
No, you meant to direct that at circlejerking managers.

>>182262094
Seems like a couple thousand people are still enjoying this corpse. Thanks for letting us know we're having fun the wrong way.

fuck managers our own new cup when

>>182262458
You want to get it to the point where you're having fun in solitude.

>>182262561
CA NA DA FAG

>>182248890
when's the /pol/eague gonna be in the video archive? I'd really like to get the recordings.

>>182262632
THIRTY
SIX
MESSAGES

>>182262663
It's on comfy.

Remove Managers
Remove Viewers
No Tactics
Germanbro Only
Final Destination

>>182262617
That won't happen for a while. Even with the quoted 800 people which might be generous the cup would live on for quite a while. And by the time everyone's interest dies out and it's just a handful left it's time to let the cup die

>>182261906
And removing the esports from the cup will give every board equal chances of seeing their team play.

>>182262697
I'm not taking you for commentating!

>>182262889
Each board deserves chances proportional to their interest in the cup.

lmao just play the fucking game man. if you asked people that weren't tictac nerds what part of the cup they hated most they'd say the goofy menu simulator bullshit. nobody cares about that beyond the kind of people that would post here offseason, but they're all the ones talking in the echo chamber and nobody ever gets other opinions. it's why so many people here are lashing out.

say what you want about rigtor but in the last couple of months he's realized that his autism is better served learning to make stuff the average cup viewer cares about, instead of making people think he's some boogeyman puppetmaster.

>>182263014
Good thing we're polling viewers' interest now, then. Randomized tictacs with MINOR stat changes for slower boards (no more than like -4 or -5 to stats).

>>182263237
If we go as far as -10 I'm ok with it.

>>182262374
>"The cup should cater to me and my manager friends so we can play with each other and have boards cheer for us"
>calls someone else self-important
Anon, I...

>>182263014
Which you can do with polls, either gauging interests or making team rosters, wiki autists and aesthetic fags. No need for people actually managing and testing.

>>182263237
That favors big market teams for no reason.

I can't tell what is a joke and what is real anymore. How does anyone think that pushing small boards aside is any good?
Do you really want another 20 stars on /fit/ and /mlp/?

>>182263014
I, for one, welcome the /mlp/ Cup.

>>182263601
Being big market is a good enough reason on its own.

>>182263741
Then you might as well call it the Big Market Cup.

>>182263625
>/fit/
>big board
lmoa

>>182263625
One, /fit/ is not a big board. Two, there are a ton of "big markets" that have never won a cup. Three, it would go exactly the opposite of what you're saying - randomizing tactics means that the same small group of teams aren't "Perma-elite" that nobody gives a shit about.

>>182263625
>I can't tell what is a joke and what is real anymore.
Welcome to /4ccg/

>>182263542
>>"The cup should cater to me and my manager friends so we can play with each other and have boards cheer for us"
No, the cup should cater to the audience.

>>182263237
>Randomized tictacs with MINOR stat changes for slower boards (no more than like -4 or -5 to stats).
Enjoy the /u/-/mlp/ Summer '18 final!

>>182264023
And what does the audience want?

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>>182263873
>>182263952
>/fit/ isn't a big board
Maybe not in /v/ or /pol/ league, but pretty big.

>>182264147
To see their board go as far as possible.

>>182264227
>going by threads and not posts
nice alternative facts you have there

>>182264105
Are you >implying /u/ is a fast board

>>182264236
And with randomized tictacs they'll get just as many chances of that as any other board.

>>182263542
>"The viewers are in to see their board play."
>"Then fuck them."
>thinks he can save his sorry ass from that bullshit
holy fucking shit dude

>>182264236
That's e-sports mentality. Welcome to the start of the conversation.

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>>182264417

>>182264236
You can still root for /yourteam/ if it has random tactics and runs autopilot, and most likely that'll be an improvement for most teams' chances in the elites. If anything, it'd make the streams more enjoyable when all the tedious tactical stuff pre- and mid-game could be skipped.

>>182264424
Sounds like you're defending the people who only watch their team's games. You are the cancer, my man.

>>182264423
>Are you >implying /u/ is a fast board
not at all, I'm >implying /u/ wouldn't get nerfed because of their board interest and aesthetics although to be fair if you left a group like current /merit/ in charge of deciding which teams get hit hardest by nerfs /u/ would probably be on all 40s and running 2-4-4, ditto /mlp/, /pol/, /a/, and whichever teams last beat the wallpaper teams

>>182264485
>it'd make the streams more enjoyable when all the tedious tactical stuff pre- and mid-game could be skipped.
This. It'd also reduce, if not remove the chances of either team being accidentally rigged.

>>182264606
The vast majority of people are there to only watch their team's games. You're in the minority.

>>182264861
Personally, I watch games for my boards, and most other teams if I have at least a little interest. If it's an /h/ vs. /c/ match, for example, I'll probably skip that match since those are essentially just image dump boards.

>>182265041
See? You wouldn't want /h/-/c/ to be the final, would you?

>>182265160
Why can't /h/ - /c/ be a final under the current system, again?

>>182265160
If it was the final I'd still watch it. If it were a group stage that didn't mean anything I would skip it if I had something better to do.

>>182265271
Because of ESPORTS

>>182264861
Doesn't matter. Appealing to the masses is a fallacy. Whether somebody is right or wrong has nothing to do with whether they're in the minority or not. Treating the cup like an e-sport attracted an e-sport audience. Wow! I am surprise!

If you're telling me that the cup is fine and dandy because viewers like the horsefuckers like it this way, I'm gonna tell you to go fuck yourself. The cup sucks and it's all about super serious rules and competition and namefags now. Some people may like that, but that doesn't change the fact that they like the shadow of something that used to be special same no longer is.

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Maybe the cup didn't change, but rather it is we who have changed

>>182265401
>It's not me who is wrong, it's everyone else!

>>182265362
this is the same system that has allowed Mauled of all people to win an elite cup and you're telling me that /h/-/c/ can't be a final?

>>182265842
You would've convicted Galileo of heresy, you dumb smug cunt.

>>182265842
>stating facts is wrong

>guy who takes memeball so seriously whines that people take memeball too seriously

>>182266103
>Opinions and subjective views are facts now

What's the matter? Can't stand being on the losing side of history?

>>182260513
A part of me feels like saying this is too hugboxy, but this post is absolutely true. There's no room to make meme tactics when people start to take results seriously. Look at SDA, he keeps making meme tactics and gets shit on for it every time. And hell, as a manager myself when it gets close to cup time I start feeling pressured to come up with something that wins rather than something that's fun because otherwise I'll not only be letting the board's fans down but also invite people to shit on the team and the board itself.

It's why I'm glad there's more silly invitationals now. Even stuff like /vg/l got competitive, but fake team leagues and other shit like that don't have any pressure to do well, and you can just make fun silly shit because losing doesn't matter.

The discord channels sure are quiet when things get heated up here

>>182266259
>it is an opinion and subjective view to state the cup is too serious and circlejerky for what is supposed to be a thing made for fun and memes
I can stand being on the right side. Can't say the same about you.

>>182262094
>The point was seeing boards play against each other, not cheering for your specific board in a serious competition.
>People shouldn't want to see their board play
Why the fuck not? It's more fun to see a team that represents you compete than it is to see a team you don't care about. The serious competition part I can agree with, but there's no reason we shouldn't allow boards in as we have.

>the main cup will never be as comfy as the >VGL

>>182266259
>Losing side of history
Wew lad
The cup wasn't an e-sport at its start: fact.
It's an e-sport now: fact.
The shift to a prestigious e-sport led to the cup becoming a cult of personality revolving around managers and circlejerking commentators/streamers: fact.

>>182266242
>go to restaurant because the food is good
>food changes and it's not as good anymore
>"This restaurant sucks now"
>"WHOOOOOOAAAAA LIKE WHOOOOOOAAAAA STOP TAKING THIS SO SERIOUSLY"

>>182263089
>if you asked people that weren't tictac nerds what part of the cup they hated most they'd say the goofy menu simulator bullshit.
In that stream poll most people said they liked having people trying shit in the middle of the game. It's when it takes half an hour that it becomes bad.

>>182266667
The VGL is also bad. Especially with the prize being having a player on the /vg/ team. It just adds fuel to the competitive fire. Then you have people like Karth and Resolink who take their team too seriously.

>>182266505
The teams don't represent you. You are not your board. You think like a Tumblrina. Next you'll be talking about equality of representation in the cup and symbolic violence and microaggressions against small markets.

>>182264797
And instead guarantee that some teams would be purposefully rigged, since people could just introduce shit tactics into the tactic pool and let RNG decide who gets fucked.

>>182266505
This is the ideal "compromise" for me. Autopilot cups where every existing and historical team would be allowed to compete as long as they have a roster. I wouldn't really even check for board interest by making threads and spamming cup links since people can like teams other than their main team and want to see them play even though they don't browse the board. It might even encourage them to actually check new boards out.

The current system is that if your team doesn't have enough vocal primary fans then you're not allowed anywhere near the cup and the viewers who only come around when the cup is actually on don't even know why team x is not playing, or that it existed at all. And that's mostly because some vocal cup people really hate small-market teams they think have no fans at all.

The only real problem would be streaming which is the reason the Megababby was killed in the first place, but with "new" capable streamers like QD and Kekkels backing up the old cast, the pressure put on a single streamer would be smaller.

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>>182262758
Yeah but I meant like proper archiving like the mkv files with the chatlogs and such, any idea?

>>182266674
Exactly, find another restsurant

>>182267139
>memevitationals
>archived
Welcome to the pains of the VGL.

>>182266674
>It's an e-sport now: fact.
Then where's my check?

>>182267164
>you're not allowed to criticize a good product turning to shit
How thin is your skin?

And there is no other 4chan Cup. There are plenty of e-sports, though, so why don't you just go find another one since that's what you like so much and let me have the old cup back?

>>182267104
This. I want /cgl/, /x/, etc. back and they're nto even my boards.
Who thought it was a good idea to kill small boards, especially ones that have a manager willing to do the work?

>>182266394
>mfw discords are better at shitposting than channers nowdays

>>182266943
VGL really is going bad. It's starting to have the typical manager circlejerk where managers talk about playing against each other and completely forget that they're representing their generals instead of themselves. And it really did get worse this VGL. If just saying that /llsifg/ got lucky will get the defence force shitting on you and praising Bitten for being the greatest manager who ever lived then there's something really wrong.

>>182267071
>The teams represent the board
>The board is made up of users
>Users provide the posts and content that make up the board
And anyway, it's not representing "me" as like a lawyer or something you dense fuck, it's representing "me" like how a national team represents that nation. Are you really too stupid to understand that?

When will you anon stop arguing about stupid stuff

>>182266943
>>182267406
still not as bad as the elites, where everyone tryhards from the start desu

>>182267406
You also get Rorona crying about losing a game

>>182267702
Remove Roro

>>182267338
The problem is that there's a large amount of people who find teams like /p/ and /t/ and such absolutely boring and end up tuning out, but there's nobody there to replace them like there is when someone detests, say, even an /r9k/ or [s4s]. If it's a team only 5 people want to see play and everyone else just fucks off, what's the point of them playing? While I hated seeing /out/ and /c/ go since I found them fun, if I'm the only one then I can't really argue with them being gone.

>>182267096
That is not the problem of the board, that is the problem of the keks in charge.

>>182267327
>And there is no other 4chan Cup.
Still mad nobody cared about your cup, Canadafag?

>>182267327
Then make change happen instead of talking about it

You're all bark and no bite

>>182267690
I'll give you that. I really love watching teams whose managers only show up around the VGL because they usually run amazing meme tactics and always provide entertaining games. But even that's kind of disappearing now that more and more VGL teams have cup managers who run tryhard tactics and actually test against their opponents. Look at /domg/, they're a really fun team that died this VGL because they drew /lolg/ and /drg/

>randomise tactics
>circlejerking switches to which tactics maker is the best
Congrats on solving literally nothing.

>>182267406
>If just saying that /llsifg/ got lucky will get the defence force shitting on you
>If you insult a group of people they will insult you back and/or defend themselves
What a concept.

>>182267702
Why wouldn't you be disappointed about letting people you represent down?

>>182268035
>saying a team got lucky means you insulted a bunch of people
What a time we live in

The real problem is we can't find any good commentators anymore so it's impossible to make a shit game entertaining because nobody has any charisma or talent.

>>182268007
Yep before it was fine to fly with meme tactics, now you get your tryhard formations even in VGL, getting to the point where if you don't conform to tryharding, you'll be lucky to scrape by for a rep.

>>182268035
>calling someone lucky is insulting them
Goes to show idolfags have no sense of self-awareness

>>182268165
Literally, unironically, unban DF.

>>182268165
Why would I want to comment a game to get shit on?

Let me ask this: Could aesthetics alone carry the cup? The randomized/all the same tactics ideas take out the fun of seeing good tactics play well and shitty tactics fuck up, so that's about all that's left.

>>182268035
They DID get lucky. Every team needs more than a bit of luck to get anywhere in this RNGfest. Saying "team that won [tournament] got lucky" is not an insult, it's a fact, and if someone takes it as an insult then they have never watched a PES match.

>>182268195
>Yep before it was fine to fly with meme tactics
still is, literally look at /pg/

>>182268165
I want to commentate but I'm afraid my mom will walk in and talk to me in front of hundreds of strangers

>>182268220
>>182268139
The way people around here say "you got lucky" is basically just a shorthand of "your team is shit and fuck you for winning with it". I'm not even an idolfag, it's just the same thing that's done with every "lucky" team.

>>182268221
>DF
>good commentator
Will never understand this meme. The guy is as dull as a can of grey paint, carries himself with an air of superiority over everyone and makes me feel like I'm watching the official radio stream for an amateur football team.

>>182268009
You don't necessarily need to have a guy in charge of making tactics. Get formation, sliders and all off random.org and maybe roll for fluid and advanced tactics and then put together a formation or even grab a default one from somewhere. If you don't want a 2-3-5 all-10s in the mix then just roll for sensible amounts of players in the formation. Some people are going to argue over which random gen website is the best but that's going to be memes and I really want to see that happen

>>182268414
t. burger

>>182268221
There is literally no reason DF shouldn't be allowed to commentate. Shit, Pete Rose can still go see a baseball game and shit.

We just need more commentators with funny accents

>>182268415
Why not just get the results off of random.org in the first place then?

>>182268414
Agreed desu.

>>182268415
You can't roll for formation, there's more to it than just how many players are on each line.

>>182268415
>I really want to see that happen
Then fucking make it yourself

What is with people "wanting" stuff yet can't lift a finger to make it happen?

>>182268235
Randomized tactics can still be retarded as fuck and result in amazing games and cinderella stories. If anything with the change aesthetics and other creative stuff would hold even more value if it becomes THE way to "improve" your favourite team.

>>182268235
>Could aesthetics alone carry the cup?
For a while. Then everyone gets used to /u/-tier aesthetics on every team and either start wanting for more not knowing that's as far as aesthetics can go or accept the stalemate.

>>182268374
that's the definition of scraping by, even scraped by qualifiers.

>>182268591
They're actually hypocrites who are as e-sports as everyone else, they only want to see memes as long as it doesn't affect their team.

>>182268553
I hate kids with funny accents

>>182268414
I disagree but see where you're coming from. He's not a shouty screamy guy. Some like that. Some don't.

>>182268558
Because PES adds another layer of RNG on top which makes it exciting in the first place. Sure some matchups are predictable, but there's always the chance of PES going PES and rolling for the highly unlikely result.

This is not really what you meant I hope, but I'd rather watch the added layer of RNG in PES instead of watching someone stream random.org rolls for results.

>>182268406
And that's esports mentality infecting the cup.

>>182268558
Not much entertainment and watching teams play in that.

>>182268406
this x100
/4ccg/ uses "you got lucky" to dismiss teams all the damn time

>>182268485
DF can still see a 4cc game. Doesn't mean he should be let in the booth.

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>viewers constantly make fun of people who lose games
>viewers constantly want serious logos
>viewers constantly want their teams to do good and win
>viewers suddenly now don't want the esport mentality they instilled into the cup itself

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>>182269126
Yeah, it's not like they let Pete Rose on TV, that would be insane.

>>182269152
This

>>182268591
>>182268730
Tell me who I need to talk to about it and I gladly will.

>>182269152
Viewers did a retarded thing and want to make amends. Nothing bad about that.

>>182269343

Except they still do these things

>>182269152
The cup "community" is a glacier, dude, it takes a while for people to get fed up with bullshit.

>>182269152
something something 4ccg is not one person

>people are once again arguing over shit that will never happen
This is why it's good we have /merit/.

>>182269204
Yeah dragongate isn't exactly close to betting on matches.

>>182267603
I'm not too stupid to understand that. I'm saying you're wrong. /b/ doesn't represent me, thank fuck. /b/ is a thing I like and that's it.

That's why you think like Tumblr. You're erasing the line between you and the things you like.

You are not your board.
Your board is not an extension of your personality or identity.
You =/= things you like

>>182269251
>spoonfeed me

Fuck mate, either you want to do stuff and start planning it, or you can keep flailing about on /4ccg/

Nothing ever happens by just talking about it

>>182267898
I've been accused of being three different people lmao. Thanks for proving me right about /4ccg/ basically being social media drama and not video game related at all.

And not an argument, btw.

>>182267921
I did make change happen. The cup is bloated with people participating in it and that ruined it, so I stopped participating. One less manager in the cult of personality. I can't remove everyone else or I would. I could remove myself, so I did.

#bringbackGB

>>182269591
Man literally everything you like is an extension of your identity. If we take all the things you like, hate, and care about away from you, what's left to be your identity?

fuck off back to your childfucking OaB

>>182269963
>I've been accused of being three different people
I guarantee nobody here actually thought you were PMB, Bent, or Canadafag.

>>182269963
>One less manager in the cult of personality.

If you were in the cult of personality then you only have yourself to blame. Some managers are able to handle their team without being attention whores, so why couldn't you?

I also fail to understand how people participating is a bad thing? (and wow people want to participate to what they like, what a shock)

>>182269969
You really depress me. Stripping away the dross to find out who you truly are is the goal of so many different religions and philosophies because people have believed for millennia that there's more to being human than consuming things. For you, being human is merely being a hub of preferences in a consumer culture. Your identity is entirely dependent on what others create and serve for your consumption. Not lying, I'm sad for you.

>>182268958
That's just wasting time at that point, if random.org controls everything from the outset just set it there and be done with it. The extra RNG PES adds is pointless.

>>182269052
Not much entertainment watching a 2-3-5 someone rolled for your team get fucked every game and nothing being able to be done about it either. Plus then people would still shit on your team and your board regardless, which takes it from being boring to watch all the way to being an actual detrimental thing. Don't think the "esport mentality" meme doesn't extend to the viewers, too.

>>182269538
Exactly, meeming on a fake sport is nowhere near as serious as potentially rigging a real sport. He should be allowed in the commentary team.

>>182269387
And still will even in the hypothetical No Manager, Random Tactic, etc situations proposed.

>>182270651
>>182270096
>>182269963
>>182269251
>>182269701
Hello, r*ddit

Knew that idiot would show up eventually.

>>182269591
And it represents the thing you like, which in turn makes it represent a part of you. You have this idea that it means that you have to make it part of your identity or whatever, but you're thinking way too far into it.

>>182270651
>>182270651
>Stripping away the dross to find out who you truly are is the goal of so many different religions and philosophies because people have believed for millennia that there's more to being human than consuming things.
What's the difference between consuming a media and consuming a religion or philosophy? Especially with the "Your identity is entirely dependent on what others create and serve for your consumption" line, all these religions and philosophies are exactly that all the same as a TV show or video game is. The only real difference is the inflated self-importance.

>>182270918
You skipped right to the end didn't you? You don't have to include a broken 2-3-5 that will only lose in the pot where formations are being drawn from. If you want every team to have a chance and a competitive look then you can just take pre-made teams and if you don't want the people behind the pre-made teams getting credit for anything then you can chop those teams into smaller pieces like formation, offensive sliders, defensive sliders and so on and every team competing rolls for one set of each. You don't need to take everything literally and use no imagination at all

And there's also always the fact that watching PES is >fun, so even if all teams ran purely off tactics from random.org there would be lots of people who enjoy watching it just for the game itself, even if that doesn't appeal to you specifically

>>182270651
>this nigga believes a human's personality can be separated from a person's experience, memories, tastes, likes and dislikes

A person the whole package mate, you can't just decide which parts belong or not to them.

If you believe a pure human form exists, why aren't you a monk in some tibetan monastery then, instead of complaining about esports in a meme event on the internet?

>>182269963
>Thanks for proving me right about /4ccg/ basically being social media drama and not video game related at all.
4chan is a social media site, except names are discouraged. Prove me wrong.

>I did make change happen. The cup is bloated with people participating in it and that ruined it, so I stopped participating. One less manager in the cult of personality. I can't remove everyone else or I would. I could remove myself, so I did.
And nothing changed. Good job, you self-sacrificial hero.

>>182270536
>If you were in the cult of personality then you only have yourself to blame.
I did blame myself. Getting involved was a mistake.

>Some managers are able to handle their team without being attention whores, so why couldn't you?
It's more complicated than that. Like others have said, today a team's performance becomes a referendum on the skill and worth of its manager(s). You can't escape it, because the attitude that team=manager is so deeply embedded in the culture of the cup now. That's a product of the transition from a silly event run by a weird German kid where 4chan boards play football into a super serious e-sport where verified and authenticated managers submit official documents proving interest so that they can compete in an elite competition to prove who has a superior understanding of PES. The fact that there are mercs is proof that I'm right. That's got nothing to do with me failing to avoid attention. The cup was like that when I got involved and it's even worse now.

>I also fail to understand how people participating is a bad thing? (and wow people want to participate to what they like, what a shock)
Because the cup wasn't about people participating. It was about boards playing other boards in a dumb game that you enjoyed by watching it. If you could introduce managers in a way that didn't devolve the cup into a competition between managers, fine, but I don't think that's possible.

There are fans that want to "participate" in shows they like because they like those shows so much, but it's hard to think of a better way to ruin a show than to turn it over to its most autistic fans. The cup is no different. Not everything in the world exists for you to get involved with and not everything in the world is improved by your participation. Your mentality is what turned the cup into a behemoth of rules, regulations, and event calendars full of Borises, Veds, and Pavals.

>>182271469
>This tactic is shit, let's reroll it
This is literally rigging in a tournament where RNG controls all the sliders. You either include it and force a team to be worthless and that team's fanbase to suffer an unwinnable situation, or you change it and make things unfair for everyone else who has a shit setup but not shit enough to reroll.


And yes, watching it would be fun to some, but is it more fun to more people than the alternative? And would they watch the whole run, or tune out once they realize the number of teams who have no chance and literally can't change anything to give themselves a chance?

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>>182271443
>What's the difference between consuming a media and consuming a religion or philosophy?

>>182271832
Nice hat, but in the context it's not even trying to discredit the latter two. In the context of the argument he's claiming that media is given to you but religion and philosophy aren't. Both religion and philosopies are given to you in this day and age and few if any people actually make their own, but the same can be said about media too. So, in this discussion of how much something is part of your self, where is the difference?

I don't expect and actual reply and just another funny hat meme, but I feel the need to respond all the same.

>>182271998
Not le funny hat meme man but you sound like an undergraduate douchebag.

>>182272234
I won't disagree, but it still doesn't prove me wrong.

>>182271545
>4chan is a social media site, except names are discouraged. Prove me wrong.
Nigga, names are what make social media social. That's precisely why namefags are cancer.

>And nothing changed. Good job, you self-sacrificial hero.
What the fuck do you want from me? I'm supposed to hack the wiki or get the channel taken down to prove to you that I mean business? Piss off. One guy leaving while dozens stay changed nothing, no shit. If you feed one starving kid, thousands more still go hungry. Life sucks and most problems are bigger than any one of us. I can't fix the cup, but I did what I could. If everyone else followed suit, the cup would be fixed. Kinda why I'm here talking about it.

>>182271807
There's no rerolls in what I said, that system would simply not have any braindead formations included in the big pot from which they're drawn. If I could plan a system all by myself I'd go for pure random.org with all the 2-3-5s included, but I understand that a good bunch of people would probably not like that so restricting the amount of possible formations or "rigging it" could be a solution to that. Besides, if the limitations are put in place before the teams even get to draw anything it's equally rigged for everyone and back to pure RNG luck.

And I do believe people would watch it. There's enough people who simply enjoy the cup along with supporting the team they like the most that they'd stick around for their secondary teams or even just for the other games. And besides, complete helplessness caused by the team's tactic being shit can be combated as well. Each team could have three random presets and there could be a pre-game roll for which preset is used, but that's getting a bit too complicated and should not be included in my opinion

>>182272395
>You have to know who the other person is in order for it to count as being social
Wew lad

Also, the issue isn't that you didn't change anything, it's that you're trying to put yourself up as some big dick hero for being so brave as to leave, and mourning the sad state of the world that it didn't follow you.

>>182271545
4chan has some of the characteristics of a social media but the important difference is the whole anonymity part. Mainstream social medias which are the usual definition of the term require a unique profile, which thank fuck 4chan doesn't enforce

>>182271998
There's a difference between having a preference between Coke or Pepsi and having a rich interior life where you strive to experience the depth and breadth of your humanity by contemplating your existence, your relation and obligation to others, and doing and creating things in the world that fullfil the soul's yearning for transcendence.

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I love esports. I love pointless competitions of things that shouldn't be so much that the first thing I do every morning is have my legs compete to see which can hit the ground first.

>>182272493
>that system would simply not have any braindead formations included in the big pot from which they're drawn.
In other words, the bad ones would be thrown out, which means that tactics that would have originally landed on one team would then go to another, so it's still rigged.

>Besides, if the limitations are put in place before the teams even get to draw anything it's equally rigged for everyone and back to pure RNG luck.
If the initial bag is rigged, it's still a rigged competition.

>And I do believe people would watch it. There's enough people who simply enjoy the cup along with supporting the team they like the most that they'd stick around for their secondary teams or even just for the other games.
Again, some would, but would most? And the bigger thing is if they would when they know their main (or hell, in a worst case scenario main and secondary) team have no chance? It's easy for me to stick around to watch other games when teams I like are doing well, but if they're all getting wrecked the interest drains quickly when I remember I could be doing other things than watching things I like crumble.

>>182272550
No, the issue is that the cup sucks because it revolves around personalities.

Your reaction to me pointing that out is to try and make the conversation revolve around me, a personality, instead of talking about the cup itself.

You're proving me right.

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>>182269152
>viewers suddenly now don't want the esport mentality they instilled into the cup itself
The irony is delicious

>>182272989
>moving the goalposts
You tried to make yourself more relevant than you really are, failed and now you're here throwing a fit. Take the L and move on with your life.

>>182272759
>where you strive to experience the depth and breadth of your humanity by contemplating your existence, your relation and obligation to others, and doing and creating things in the world that fullfil the soul's yearning for transcendence.

All of which you do in ways taught to you by others, so in the end it's the same basic consumption just with more pretention. Every philosophical argument ends up with "Plato said" or "Socrates said" bullshit which shows that most people who do this don't even create anything themselves, they just follow what they're given. I chose my religious beliefs and my philosophical thoughts and my outlook on life myself, yes, but I'm not so delusional to pretend that I'm not just choosing them from the ideas and beliefs I've been given. I can mix and match them all I want, but I didn't actually create anything.

>>182272989
>He says as he continues to play himself up as a personality
Congrats, you left and somehow are still the thing you hate the most about the cup.

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Why is everyone such a bitch?

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I mean to an extent managers need to exist because they're the liaison between any board and the Cup. The people in the Cup are too focused on the managers instead of the teams at times and I can pull a few examples to mind but I think that we do lose a bit of perspective because we are the most entrenched people in the Cup and to us it isn't something that happens every once in a while so what we see and what someone who just watches sees aren't the same. Bleedover does exist but I think that for the most part, the Cup as it is streamed is in a fine state.

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>m-muh esports killed the cup
Holy shit git gud. Fiver on it being /a/ weeb faggot.

>>182273617
The one time you give a reasonable message you use the fake trip. baka.

>>182273617
>The people in the Cup are too focused on the managers instead of the teams at times and I can pull a few examples to mind
Is one of the examples yourself?

>>182250673
Then the cup would have died in a heavily rigged state due to dragongate, with a shitty format, with the commentary being one of the few positives, in hindsight. The GB era had many problems, and you're just blindly letting your nostalgia get to you. Even Ronery knew this and very few people disagreed when he brought up the downsides of past cup commissioners (the ones before boris, iirc).

>muh e-celebs
nigger, no one cares about any of the people behind the cup outside of 4chan. Hell, even within 4chan, less than 1% of people even know about the cup. If you want to do the math, 4chan gets around 22 million users per month, and at the peak, I don't think we broke past 3000 viewers. Even when you include mulp people, they just care about their show being involved in some vidya mod.

>>182251857
That's because you weren't here in the earlier days of the cup.

>>182273762
Big market teams usually don't have this mentality. This is more likely a smaller board fan who's trying to make their team even with bigger ones. If you have to keep the weeb gimmick it'd be more of an /e/ or /c/ fan, though it could be any babby team fan really.

>>182273762
I think it's more about new cup followers after the /pol/ league.

>One person should make every team's tactics
So why is Dragonfag banned again?

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>>182273923
>/e/
Reminder that their prize for their best run was having /b/ raid them after they lost that babby cup final. Given the small amount of "fans" they have, they're probably stuck with HT_meme until he decides to fuck off.

>>182272859
The whole manager part isn't exactly fair either, since some people are obviously better at PES than others, be it skill or luck or something in-between. The initial bag of managers is also rigged because they're not equally matched, and it's down to chance that this specific manager likes this team the most and wants to manage it. If anything, the manager system is rigged towards bigger boards.

And what you described already happens. If a popular team runs terrible tactics viewerships will drop, and they will drop equally bad if the team rolls bad tactics thanks to RNG. What might happen instead with pure RNG tactics is smaller teams that rolled good tactics perhaps for the first time in their existence might see a boost in support.

Besides, if you want everyone to have an equal chance I'm sure some PES wizard can come up with a reasonable set of tactics that will result in mostly exciting games when matched against the other tactics in the tournament. Losing is a part of the game, and the team you like can't always win. But with a full RNG system they could go from dead last to winning it all thanks to the unpredictable nature of it all.

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>>182273851
I gotta ruin something every time I post.

>>182273134
I never said I was relevant. This started with me saying I'm not relevant so I left. You're not relevant either so you should leave too. The cup is full of irrelevant people. You're building up straw men.

>>182273158
Volunteering in a soup kitchen or building a house for somebody is not "consumption" the way watching GoT or being Team Swift is. You sound confused.

>>182273229
I'm an anonymous human being. The conversation is supposed to be about the cup, not me, but you keep making it about me because I am more interesting to you than the cup. That's exactly the behavior I'm criticizing. You think you're being witty, but you're exposing your intellectual poverty with every reply.

>>182273617
>managers need to exist
t. newfag

>>182273762
>git gud at RNG
Not biting the b8

>>182274017
>one person stops making every teams tactics
>becomes esports
makes you think

>>182244902
Id probably rather go for that gif of a nigger who tried to rip the copper out of a transformer if i wanted an offensive gif. The one where skin is melting off and you can see his fucking lungs coming out of his body while hes still alive.

Theres other porns who can do porn except for straight up loli and we wouldnt get away with that anywhere

>>182276045
>and we wouldnt get away with that anywhere
That's the point.

>>182274084
>The whole manager part isn't exactly fair either, since some people are obviously better at PES than others, be it skill or luck or something in-between. The initial bag of managers is also rigged because they're not equally matched, and it's down to chance that this specific manager likes this team the most and wants to manage it. If anything, the manager system is rigged towards bigger boards.

This is acceptable because in a manager system it's impossible to make everything even. In an RNG-Based system, it is possible to weed out inferior tactics, so letting inferior tactics in just means that those teams that get them are screwed out of the chance to actually compete competently. (Yes, theoretically we could recruit people who manage at similar skill levels and seed them amongst teams, but that's not something that can be achieved in actuality).

> If a popular team runs terrible tactics viewerships will drop, and they will drop equally bad if the team rolls bad tactics thanks to RNG. What might happen instead with pure RNG tactics is smaller teams that rolled good tactics perhaps for the first time in their existence might see a boost in support.
The difference is that even the change that a nightly provides can turn a terrible tactic into something that can at least win them a game, or the manager can panic and cause PES to happen. Unless you also roll nightly changes and/or roll for mid-game changes and such, it reduces the overall excitment level because it reduces the number of variables.

> Losing is a part of the game, and the team you like can't always win.
This is fine, but there's a difference between losing and being stuck with a losing tactic for an entire cup with no hope of being able to fix it.

>>182274406
>Volunteering in a soup kitchen or building a house for somebody is not "consumption" the way watching GoT or being Team Swift is.
The reasoning behind your volunteering is, though. You want to help the homeless because other people told you it was good to help the homeless, you equated it with positive reinforcement and good emotions, and therefore integrated it into your own personality. You didn't wake up one day, decide all on your own that helping the homeless was good. And I'm not saying it isn't or that it isn't a likely conclusion to reach, just that the chances of you actually coming to it on your own before being told are low to none. You're simply consuming the ideas of another.

>>182277603
You're conflating being influenced by others with passively consuming goods created by others. Those aren't the same thing. Learning a skill from somebody or adopting a morality from somebody isn't the same thing as having a favorite Marvel movie. If you think they are, I have another fedora pic for you.

>>182274406
>I'm an anonymous human being.
Just because you're not namefagging doesn't mean you're not attention whoring. You just want to feed your own smug self-satisfaction as people reply to you with messages of support for your actions.

> The conversation is supposed to be about the cup, not me
Then why did you bring up how amazing you were because you left it behind, tearing yourself away from something you used to love in such a beautiful, dramatic gesture? If you didn't want people to suck you off over it you wouldn't have brought it up.

>but you keep making it about me because I am more interesting to you than the cup.
It's not hard to be more interesting than something that isn't showing action at the moment. if the cup was actually on at the moment, or if there was something to talk about then it'd be easy to ignore you.

>That's exactly the behavior I'm criticizing.
And perpetrating.

>You think you're being witty, but you're exposing your intellectual poverty with every reply.
No, I think you're being an attentionwhoring knob, and I'm bored as shit so I may as well feed the bait.

>>182264227
>that site doesnt even include /b/ cause it would completely assblast the graph

>>182264227
>vp just had 118 new threads at 9pm

did fe.ma.le g.oo.dra come back

>>182278037
>You're conflating being influenced by others with passively consuming goods created by others.
You're passively consuming the influence of others. You may think about it, consider it, and maybe even get rid of that influence, but it's only replaced by another influence.

>Learning a skill from somebody or adopting a morality from somebody isn't the same thing as having a favorite Marvel movie
Of course, but it's still coming from the same place of consuming what you're given by others, just for different results.

>If you think they are, I have another fedora pic for you.
Too bad you don't have an argument to go with it.

>>182278259
No but Bui

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it's the year of /backup1/