/rlg/ - Roguelike General

tf2 is a roguelike

>>170872780
Now that we've adequately summarized the entirety of last thread let's leave it there and have a happy and new thread, free of all previous arguments or discussions.

A game is not a true roguelike unless your character is a rogue.

No games are roguelikes since they have an on/off mode. A hypothetically "real" roguelike would be eternal and unstoppable.

A game is not a roguelike unless it is in fact Rogue, but the name has been changed.

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>>170873156
>>170873308
>>170873431

All games can be roguelikes. Whether one is or not depends on the player.

>>170873431
I think at this point we need to have a serious discussion about what the word "like" means in the context of one thing being "like" another.

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>>170873779

>>170873431
Rogue, in fact, cannot be a roguelike because it IS Rogue.

>>170874078
Will you make me a roguelike?

>>170874280
you already are one

>>170874127
Ah, it is exactly like Rogue except for the name. Therefore, it is not Rogue because it is not named Rogue, and it is as similar to Rogue as possible without actually being Rogue. Therefore, it is the pinnacle of Roguelikes, and we here at Roguelike General should never play anything but re-named Rogue, lest we stray from the true tradition of the genre.

is blush a rougelike?

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>>170874551
Well this thread is off to a good start.

>>170874280
give me an orb man

Ok let's stop shitposting now.

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>>170874952
Never

>>170875016
what rogue is this

>>170872780
The hats are in a different menu so it's not truly a roguelike.

>>170875115
Amazingly Wondrous Orifices of Oddness, also known as AWOoO

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>>170875115
Awooo

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We shitposting now?

>>170875385

DELETE
THIS

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>>170873145
to summarize last thread properly we also need to post about dragons :3

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>>170875385
Holy fuck. Explain

>>170875115
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Angband

>>170875601
tldr it's where your ocular nerve attaches to your eye
since it's nerves rather than photoreceptors, you can't see anything
the brain is really good at filling stuff in so most of the time you don't notice, plus you have two eyes

>>170875601
I choose multi-track drifting, destroying the empty trolley and resulting in no casualties.

>>170875734
also proof that intelligent design dont real because it's an extremely retarded design with no actual benefits -- octopodes evolved eyes independently and they don't have this problem at all because their nerves just go BEHIND the retina

#demigod pryde world wyde

>>170875734
>the brain is really good at filling stuff in

>there are people whose brain hemispheres are severed and incapable of communicating
>most do not notice oddities
>specialized tests are required to show that the hemispheres have separate functions and can't actually communicate in some different way
>somehow the hemispheres coordinate movement and decisions just fine, without exchanging any information
It's amazing how different cognition is to what it looks like from the first person.

>>170875601

I will ride a big truck (firetruck) and simultaneously run over 11 people bec. earth is very big and can only handle small populations.

>get all 15 runes
>haven't found a single (ONE) [1] wand of digging the entire game

nice fucking rng

>>170876913
Just use shatter lmao

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>>170875574

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Balrog berserker feels pretty mindless.

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>Go upstairs on slime 5
>10 fucking golden eyes
>Get perma confused
>Die
>Just find out Cure potions remove confusion

>>170877218
>filename
Is that your fetish?

>>170877976
you got to slime 5 without knowing that cure potions cure confusion?

>>170877976
You're not the only one who's done that, but I still don't understand how that's possible.

99% of the time, if I get a random status, I assume a potion of curing will cure it. I mean, shit, it's in the name: why would it only be useful for poisoning and rotting? In practice, yeah, cancellation is used for the nastiest statuses, but most of the time, you'll have a couple of leftover cure potions to at least test if there's a simple way to heal yourself.

>>170878162
I beat this piece of shit game 10 times without knowing that cure potions cure confusion.

>>170857920

"you are the polar opposite of compassion"

>>170877451
You know what's mindless? Magical items. They're no-brainers. Berserker cuts out such bloat.

>>170877451
Just tried one for the first time. It kind of felt like I was playing Progress Quest manually.

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ded rogue

>>170883384
>He didn't learn how to fist the dudes with his new found head fists
Even a monster like you can fist.

>>170873156
I propose a naming convention:
A character in any singleplayer, grid-based, turn-based, procedurally generated game with permadeath and food clock will be referred to as "rogue" regardless of profession and race.

Ahoy page 10 - are you telling me no one wants to post in the early morning hours but me? This is proof NEETs are a vital resource to the health of /rlg/.

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What should I grab for my second mutation as an archer? I've already got peerless sniper or whatever it's called. I was thinking potion chugger or speed reader.

i'm playing tome4 and you hate it

>>170886491
Potion Chugger is solid.

rogue

City of the Damned is fun and you should play it.

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>Staff of Teleport explodes

I shouldn't have bet on using staff, I suppose.
Didn't help that I was a tonberry, too.

Can you stop the sidebar jumping from one side to another in Caves of Qud?
I can't find the option in the menu and it's annoying as fuck.

>>170896065
Yeah, I think it's something like turn on alternate hud or whatever. It's nearly as annoying though. Idk why they didn't just copy DCSS and have a dedicated space for messages.

>>170897971
Literally unplayable.

>>170875601
if i move the lever in any way then I'm responsible for the others dying but if I don't touch it at all then it's not my problem

>>170899647
>you miss
>you miss
>you hit but do no damage
>it is lightly wounded

>>170892619
It's not actually fun though.

>>170899647
Yeah but if you don't move the lever you won't get any XP

>>170875601
I will pull out my katana and slice the trolley in 3 equal parts, sending each one in a seperate direction and killing all 11 people. That way nobody can blame me why I let one person die and let the other live

>>170899647
What if one of the eleven people is your waifu?

>>170904931
then I'd save my waifu obviously
bad luck for those other guys

Are spellhunt remnants the best gloves for a brawler? They seem really strong but I also found sludegrip

>>170907642
Spellhunt remnants are fucking amazing and will remain relevant throughout the game because of the upgrade mechanic.

>>170907975
Wew the next boss also dropped flamewrought so I'm sitting with 3 unique gloves on a brawler now.
What is the upgrade mechanic? I'm assuming it has to do with it's ability to destroy arcane items and that will strengthen it. Haven't found any item that it can destroy yet even though I've been keeping all uniques

>>170906290
Obviously, if you knew where she was.
You're not allowed to choose the door that was opened.

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>Only way to deal with ghost moths in spider:$ is to wear -4 boots of Sinv
>Only source of MR for elf is the hat of pondering
>Vaults' first room is guarded by a fire crab and I have RF-
>Depths is guarded by a fire giant

Well I'm gonna grab that goddamn spider rune at least

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Screw that, they don't even have Sinv.

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Fuck ghost moths seriously

>>170912876
>those shield sprites everywhere
PHOTOSHOP
CHEATER

>>170913204
It's more likely some weird refresh artifact from his sprite being larger than a square. You'll notice the shield pixels only linger over non-empty tiles- the water and spiderwebs.

>>170913204
>photoshop
Man, I wish.
I get those weird thingies all the times with this tile.

>>170908203
Spellhunt Remnants can be used to eat a higher-tier magical artifact - eat a t2 arcane artifact and they'll become a t2 item, and so on. You can "skip steps" if needed and feed t1 Remnants a t5 item if you choose; in any case the t5 remnants are almost certainly the best gloves for a brawler who's not attached to magic.

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Oh hey. I only read about this super rare vault.

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Well it'd be rude not to accept it.

DCSS question - what happens if I cast Orb of Destruction and Dithmenos' Shadow Mimic procs?

>>170914962
What do you think?

>>170915196
Do you think we could whip up some sort of anorexia-analogue therapy for DCSS devs to go through? Like, you're already a pretty girl. You don't need to keep doing this to yourself just to get thinner.

>>170893424
staff of teleport doesn't help against camelot knights anyways since they can follow teleports
you need wand of teleother to successfully ditch them

but for future reference you should *identify* your important devices -- only {cursed} ones explode, and you really don't want to be stuck with your only source of recall or tele suddenly gone

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RIGGED

>>170914962
shadow mimic doesn't duplicate the actual spell, it just shoots a shadow projectile thing

>>170915815
>mumo
>in elf

>>170915815
>Really walk into that teleport trap?
>ye sure whats the worst that can happen?

>>170915815
werent you in this situation yesterday too
crawldevs are telling you to go play a deathsword

>IA
>occultist
>balls deep
>"oh man this floor is cleared and I got all these nice traits, spells and scrolls, let me just quaffID this potion"
>i'm confused!
>giant mantis shows up
>just can't walk straight to touch the stairs right by my side
>i am dead!

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>>170915881
It's either clearing the fire dragon lair end, depths 1&2 with two (2) patrolling fire giants or vaults with a friendly fire crab or trying my luck in elf since abyss is out of my league right now

>>170915939
Yeah, last time I fell down a shaft. I expected it to be some kind of special weird bug.
Nope, teleport works too.

Also, do blademasters hit crazy hard or what

>>170916130
You live or what? I want to see you splat

What is the best way to id things in DCSS? Do you just try the things or wait until you have enough scroll of identification?

>>170917749
Do you have remove curse? Check things out in bulk and then simply remove curse.

>>170917749
Read-ID scrolls at the end of each level, use ID scrolls on potions, wait until I have at least one remove curse before trying jewelry.

>it's a hydras camping lair entrance and cyclops camping OM entrance with a long blade build episode

>tfw no hidra waifu(s?)

>>170918321
>he doesn't hunt for efreets/erica up to D:13

nerd

I keep splatting in IA but at least In reliably reach depth 10 now.
It's 30 levels deep, isn't it?

>>170919097
Nearing 40 iirc

>>170919286
Damn it.
That thing is brutal.

>>170919343
The wall collapses

>>170917442
>-14 HP

>>170919592
I feel my sanity slipping...

>>170914134
They're pretty great, though eventually a T5 randart with triple procs is probably better. Combination kick's usually plenty for knocking off sustains on anything but the craziest of mages.

>tabbing through trash mobs in tome
>suddenly get put in critical health by an offscreen unique
this isn't fun

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Does !newlife replenish HP when used? Asking for a friend.

>>170920887
Meant as in currently playing in a watchable form.

>>170921349
Sadly, no.

>>170921386
Nah, I only play MuMo while I'm mad.

>>170921470
Sounds reasonable

In DCSS, how does enchantment work? What's better: A +2 battleaxe of freezing or a normal +4 battleaxe?

>>170922613
Enchantment affects both damage and accuracy. You can roughly think of enchantment as only adding a third of the enchantment to its base damage, and then using a rule of thumb as "more base damage is better".

Still, a branded weapon is usually better than a plain weapon. A battleaxe has base 15 damage, right? So, with a lucky roll, you'll do 15*1.5 = 22.5 damage due to the freezing brand, which is more than the +4 battleaxe could possibly do.

In particular, the multiplicative damage brands (freezing, flaming, vorpal, holy wrath) are more effective on highly damaging weapons (roughly weapons with base damage of at least 13).

Electrocution and pain (the latter with high Necromancy skill) deal the same range of damage regardless of the base damage, so it's usually optimal to use them with low damage, high speed weapons (e.g. a quickblade of electrocution).

>running away from a ghost, no big deal
>step on a magical trap that drains spirit
oh my fuck

>>170923531
ok thanks. And Is a troll leather armor (regenation but only 4 ac) worth it against plate mail with 10 ac?

>>170924664
You could try them out yourself, but no it's better to just have us play the game for you.

>>170924881
too late, already dead

>>170924881
rood

>>170924664
a fully enchanted TLA is the best possible armor in the game, barring a TLA of RF found in volcano.
Second best is leather of RF.

>>170918890
there was no azrael, erica or efreet, no weapons of flaming, no fucking RAPIERS and only a hand crossbow as the ONLY FUCKING RANGED OPTION. NOT EVEN A SHORTBOW. I got to d:14 with stairdancing then got sniped by a vampire with a wand of acid

>>170924664
Wear whatever gives you the highest total AC + EV

>>170925027
But that isn't true at all. They're very good, but far from the best. Its totally subjective based on what character you're playing.

>>170923965
>I am running away from a ghost!
>I step on a trap!
>My spirit feels weaker!

>>170925027
this is very wrong. They're amazing in early-mid game but taper off after 2 runes.

>>170923965
How do you even kill those cunts reliably, is TNT the only way?

>>170927570
>>170927690

The master spices does not lie.

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Well that's appropriate.

>>170930059
smeagol always deserved too be killed, frodo was just a cuck

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I just got my first rune!

>>170930561
Congrats senpai. Looks like you have that one in the bag so far. Get that EV up.

>tfw just figured out how to use ttyrecs so i can watch replays of godtier crawl players

my body is ready

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I don't think this is going to be good, is it.

>>170932156
Rev up those feet and activate stairs. That's going to be a long floor clear.

>>170932436
Is there a way for me to deal with Mara other than evoking feet?

>>170932156
>>170932531

As an FYI: if you plan on taking out Mara (which might not be a good idea), he and other Rakshasas are demonic, so your holy wrath triple sword will be ideal for him.

But yeah, your best bet is to just go back upstairs, find the last staircase to the fourth floor, and slowly clear out the level.

>tfw bad at roguelikes

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>>170932908
>tfw bad at roguelikes too
>but persistent
Keep going.

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>>170932689
I'd like to thank that one Naga for giving me this arbalest, it took six very accurate shots even though he cloned immediately. I shot the furthest one away and he blinked and in four shots he was dead. Also, there are a lot of death yaks around, wtf is up with that?

>>170933318
I do since they're fun but I'm not tactical at all
I hate running from fights so I splat every run

>>170933471
>Also, there are a lot of death yaks around, wtf is up with that?

Polyphemus is probably lurking around, if you haven't already seen him.

>>170933701
Feet are your most powerful ally tho. Most people attribute the success of primordial man to tools and his taming of fire, but it was the evocation of feet that let us ascend to where we are today. Beat your feet, so that you might get the meat.

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>>170933701
>I do since they're fun

I will never understand this.

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>>170933735
Haven't found him despite lurking around the whole level, but I got the rune and I'm heading off to Elven Halls. First thing I see when I come in. He looks pretty fucked up and has a nasty spellset, should I risk it?

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Do people actually have trouble with google drive? you just right click the fiel than click download from the pop-up.

>>170934020
autism
Other singleplayer games are way too easy since you can always exploit the ai even if you limit yourself in other ways
But roguelikes provide an actual challenge

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>>170934138
Name me one (1) roguelike that provides a challenge without you needing to gimp yourself

How are you supposed to play normal speed species in DCSS? I 15 runed a Spriggan, but now I'm trying a Deep Dwarf necromancer. What are you supposed to do with enemies too tough to melee (eg. double headed ogre with 2 GSCs)? With Spriggan the answer is always "kite them to death", but kiting is mostly impossible for a DD.

Eating chunks is really annoying too. How do Gozag food shops work as a food source for normal metabolism species?

>>170934379
>it isn't a challenge because after you spend hundreds of hours mastering the mechanics and learning the monsters and items it becomes rote

>>170934040
You can do it, I believe in you!

>>170934379
I already told you mate I'm bad at roguelikes since I don't like running away

>>170934105
sounds like a false flag to push people to donate

>>170934379
mumo

>>170934581
Yes.
See: DDA.

>>170934513
Also, any advice for skill/stat upgrades for a DDNe?

>>170934379
Infra Arcana

>>170934040
Asterion isn't too bad, but he is dangerous. A Heroism+Finesse (or even Heroism by itself) should probably do him in, and I think the rN++ from your triple sword will protect you from the pain brand (and the flaming brand should do more damage to Asterion).

He literally is just a Minotaur Makhleb worshipper. Greater Destruction can blast you with strong elemental damage, but if your elemental resistances are covered, you should survive for at least 10 turns.

>>170934748
Oh there we go. That is ein roguelike that's hard as balls no matter what.

>>170934602
Play DCSS as a Spriggan, become a running away expert out of necessity.

>>170934890
>DCSS
I only play good roguelikes like tome

>>170935042
or spelunky

>>170930059
>finding one of the slay orc artifacts early enough for it to actually be relevant
is this even possible

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>>170934813
>>170934586
I chickened out and went to clean out the first level of Vaults instead (and also out of curiosity since I hadn't gone there - and boy I nearly got my butt handed to me). Turns out he is kinda a pushover at this level. His summoned thing spawned too far away and only reached me when I managed to get the last hit, so that might be part of it.

Vaults seemed really tough, especially the deep troll priests and shamans constantly breaking walls next to me and buffing everything. Also, the guys that lock doors are absolute assholes. Do I clear out Elf, or do I continue trying my luck with Vaults?

Also, Oka gave me a +6 triple crossbow of velocity. Is it worth using at only level 10 of crossbows? My alternative is a +2 arbalest of Freezing (I also have another one of Flaming).

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I thought these were Elven halls, not Orcish Demon halls.

>>170936323
Get outta there lad

>>170935625
It is not. This was on the first floor of Lonely Mountain.

I want YOU to play Infra Arcana and report your games!

>>170936323
ID that wand of digging, you merfolk malcontent. It will 100% get you out of situations just like that. If only for a few turns.

>>170936994
>>170936356
I died! Not even mad, I listened to >>170936994
advice and ID'd the wand of digging and made clear ways back to stairs on elf 2 where it saved my butt twice when distortion halberds appeared. Unfortunately I was too curious and I went into Elf 3. Everything was going fine until very awkward placement had 3 demonologists squatting behind the corner (and one of those assholes that makes holes in the terrain - annihilator? Not sure). I popped silence and backtracked but it wore off and they ended up just filling my way out with executioners. My butt hurts but my mind is super tranquil. Such a shame, since I really adored that mask that I found and I'll likely never find it again until I play idk, Formicid Necromancer. Anyway anons, thank you for your help! I'll fault less another day.

>>170936935
I want you to do my next physics 2 exam

>>170938356
Anon, you're supposed to refuse to learn.

>>170938434
>I am taking the exam!
>I am writing the answers on the paper!
>I turn in my exam!

>>170939094
>I botch the exam completely!

A BROKEN BACK RENDERS YOU GRACELESS

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>>170938356
Good job anon, even if you splatted like that, you still learned something and that will always help you to splat less in the future! Good luck on your next run, anon!

>>170939323
first person only, anon

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tum tum

>>170939918
that's Mist, anon.
Another of those games that are hard as balls.

>>170940054
Veganism

>>170935548
v
a
g
a
n
t
e

>>170940054
>>170940258
MOOOOOOOODS THEY'RE AT IT AGAIN

>>170940058
>tfw one of only three people that have played HoM

>>170940516
Is that game actually any good?

>>170936323
Ok but watch this
Portal
Projectile

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>>170936935

>>170940738
It's actually really good, to be honest. It also has multiplayer if you have >friends. Even if they were to suddenly drop development I'd say that it's worth the price.

>>170941286
Thanks friend. I always come to /rlg/ for quality roguelite discussion and you haven't disappointed.

>>170941445
Oh shit I'm sorry I thought I was at the club two blocks down.

In a land far away and a time long past, this was the best spell repertoire that could be achieved:


a - Darkness Hex ########.. 0% 6 None
b - Ring of Flames Chrm/Fire ########.. 1% 7 None
c - Fire Storm Conj/Fire ########.. 2% 9 None
d - Necromutation Trmt/Necr ########.. 1% 8 None
e - Haste Chrm ######## 0% 6 None
f - Tornado Air ########.. 2% 9 None
g - Cigotuvi's Embrace Necr ########.. 0% 5 None
h - Glaciate Conj/Ice ########.. 2% 9 None
i - Controlled Blink Tloc N/A 1% 8 None
j - Shatter Erth ########.. 2% 9 None
k - Mephitic Cloud Conj/Pois/Air ######## 0% 3 None
l - Summon Butterflies Summ ######## 0% 1 None

Now no one even plays the game.

Trog just gifted me a vampiric bardiche. But the game says: "The item is vampiric, you must be full or above to equip it".
My live is full, why can't I equip?

>>170942217
Full satiation. You must eat enough food for your status to be 'Full' to equip it.

>>170942217
Get fatter fatty. Eat those burgers

>>170942217
>>170942514
>>170942693

Also, the hunger cost of vampiric weapons is just from the initial wielding. They don't burn more satiation than any other weapon.

>>170942693
Pizza did the trick for me.

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Finally getting around playtesting hunter a bit.
And for once, a rather nifty Dasai-reforge.

>>170944182
In IRL or in RL?

>>170945620
well pizza in dcss was removed, it can't be in game

>>170945736
WRONG

>>170945445
I really need to upscale the HP, probably. A little.

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>search every nook and cranny for a secret door
>keep going insane
I CAN'T FIND THE EXIT

What part of the code can I slash to get rid of pcb duelist auto-targeting on kills after level 35? It's violating my human rights when fighting large groups of enemies.

https://github.com/poschengband/poschengband/blob/master/src/duelist.c

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>>170947083
It's in cmd1.c. Search for Endless Duel.

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>mfw reading PCB code
They should just drop PCB and make PCB2 on the new Angband code

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Merfolk bastard is back - is the floorgod being merciful?

>>170947815
Yep. It'd fix a whole goddamn host of issues.

bage den DD:

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No luck changing that endless duel code - it doesn't translate to any ingame effect. I tried just changing the level requirement (to 51), getting rid of the code entirely, and getting rid of bits and pieces.

>>170951301
We need a meme-themed roguelike
In before slex - it has some meme-spewing, but it's not a true meme rl.

>>170951797
/rlg/ - The Roguelike?

>>170951446
...did you actually compile after changing the code

>>170951841
Yes.

We need more people to make it a thing.
We need programmers, designers, tile artists and someone to shill the game.
I'll be the idea guy.

>>170948213
did they prune +5,+x rings of slaying or is that just a +5,+0 ring

>>170951947
Nah you can do something else anon, I'll be the idea guy.

>>170951980
It's a +5, +5 ring.
Accuracy and Damage have not been separate values in weapon enchantments or slaying bonuses for a while.

>>170951947
i'll be the shill

pcb is not a real roguelike but /rlg/ is so stop talking about pcb you tools, everyone's moved onto /rlg/

What's the option to allow you to pick up a specific thing from a stack of things in PCB? I vaguely recall someone mentioning it a few threads back, but can't seem to find it.

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>>170953323
easy_floor

>>170953578
Thank you. I looked over that like a dozen times and missed it every time.

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I really fucking hate it when my weapon breaks and I'm surrounded by monsters.
Also, fuck Lich.

>>170954290
mobile games aren't roguelikes
also that game clearly has more than 1 bit, so it's a liar and a fraud as well

>>170954586
t. stone soup PRO

>>170954692
why would i shitpost about notroguelikes if i was playing a notroguelike myself?

>>170947815
Yeahy. But it would be a superbly significant effort.
And lot of people probably would't benefit from it.

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That was a bit awkward.

>>170955712
ah, you're fiiiiine

>>170954692
Yeehaw

Should I play PCB?

>>170956350
No, you shouldn't. It isn't fun. It is tedious and scummy.
Do it anyway.

>>170956350
You won't be able to play the game because you won't finish managing your options and settings before bedtime

>>170956350
this. >>170956564
Also don't play the inferior version.

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>>170956350
of course you should, anon~
accept the bloat into your tender, warm boipucci

>>170956615
>Also don't play the inferior version.
nani?

>>170957068
he's telling you to play pseudo or PCB-R instead of vanilla pcb

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shit we really need to update the pcb pasta huh

>>170958093
whats pcb-r

Is moderate bloat even a bad thing?
Having 10 mediocre classes to try out and have fun with is more fun than one tightly designed character option.

Down with tight, long live thicc design

>>170958752
If PCB is for autistic children, PCB-R is for slightly less autistic toddlers

>>170958752
PCB with some added stuff, less grindan, a few QoL things.

>>170959298
where can i get it/see a list of differences

>>170956350

No. You shouldn't play real roguelites

>>170959426
just google it

>>170941934

>mephitic cloud

this is mah favrit memey

>>170959426
there are so many angbad variands it's unbelievable

poschengband?
more like posliteband
heh

>>170960158
even rogue is a roguelite :o

People should stop making all the variants and just unify and make one great Roguelike game.

>>170960368

So how about we merge /lite/ and /rlg/ now? :)

>>170960493
>but muh bloatlike

>>170960493
it's called Rogue

>>170960783
Not roguelike - it's modal

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>>170960842
please do NOT berlinpost in my favorite thread

>>170960943

>berlin is bad

It isn't you roguelite apologist

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>no dullahan monsterrace in PCB

>>170960943
Provide a sensible alternative to berlin then

Oh wait you can't

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>>170961121
>>170961262
>However, the broad nature of the Berlin Interpretation allows many games not traditionally considered to be roguelikes to be categorized as such, so stricter definitions of what qualifies as a roguelike have been adopted by various communities. Currently, one of the most accepted interpretations on /vg/ is that a game is a roguelike if and only if it has these 4 elements:

>Permadeath - Might be optional or have ways to cheat (eg. Wizard mode), but it has to be a core element of the game.
>Turn Based - Roguelikes are about thinking, not about quick reflexes.
>Grid Based - Everything happens in a grid, where every element of the game use a set space, usually one tile, although some games have multi-tiled monsters or structures.
>Randomly generated content - Since (perma)death is so common in roguelikes, every new game has to be different to keep the gameplay from becoming repetitive.

berlinposters are the real roguelite shitters
also fuck you read the pasta in the OP

>>170959426
https://github.com/floatRand/PoschengbandR/blob/master/PCB-R%20changelog.txt is as good as you'll get. Float's said he'll update it at some point, but that should still get you the gist of it.

Game's on that github as well.

>>170961416
>>170961262
>>170961121
>>170960842
BERLINSHILLS BTFO

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>>170961416
But /rlg/ told me cats imply non-roguelikeness.

>>170960842
I would actually like this to show the Berlinfags what a real roguelite looks like.
But then again, roguelites have nothing to do with roguelikes besides being permadeath, so not worth it even for the short lulz it would provide

>>170961534
Is it really better than banilla?

>>170961826
ya

>>170959927
mephitic cloud is one of the best spells in the game. unless they removed it like everything else in the game.

>>170961416
>implying turn based can't require quick reflexes

Crypt of the Necrodancer is a roguelike by the Berlin definition.

Devil team keeps removing things and yet there are still things left in DCSS.
What was actually added to the game?

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>>170961416

>Permadeath - Might be optional

Stopped reading right here.

>>170962119
>rogue is not a roguelike beacuse wizardmode
sasuga, animeposter

>>170962221

>wizardmode

no need to resort to mental gymnastics roguelite apologist

>>170961826
Depends on how much roguelike grinding fulfills you sexually. There's still plenty, but you get to the interesting parts much quicker.

>>170962056
pakellas

>>170962309
that's literally what it says tho?

>>170962119
This is the only argument of you berliners I actually can understand. But here is a question:
Shouldn't it be already called a roguelike if it has an optional permadeath mode? So only this mode is considered a roguelike?

Why do we have roguelikes with Wizard Mode but none with Fighter Mode?

>>170962056
I'm personally not a "crawldevs are pure evil" thinker, but it does seem like their goal is to

1) Remove things with high impact
2) Add low impact things that may/may not replace the high impact things

Scarves are an especially low-impact item since they're rare in the first place and then spawn with good egos even more rarely. Barachi were initially low-impact -- in fact, so impact that hardly anyone played them. Same with Desolation of Salt, due to being a rare portal.

>>170962325
What, does it cut out bandits->wargs->hounds or something?

>>170962976
What does high impact mean? What does low impact mean?

>>170962458

It's called a roguelite for having optional permadeath because the optimal choice for all players is to always play at no-permadeath. You are intentionally ignoring the elephant in the room to satisfy what is convenient for you. There are no BUTs here.

>>170963454

A sensible workaround for this are features like felids because it's so gimped compared to any other species a player can choose.

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I am amused at how green my party turned out, including my gi and shikigami.

>>170961534
Thanks friend

>>170963648
>felids
>gimped
They're third best after Spriggans and Centaurs.

>>170963002
Nah, whole thing just goes a bit faster. Later game consumable grind's a lot less time consuming as well.

Incidentally, PCB early powerleveling in general's more about shooting hydras/young/mature dragons in the face than hounds.

>>170963268
Literally what it sounds like. Wands of haste had a huge impact on how you played the game because of how important of a buff haste was. Now there isn't any more haste.

Scarves are low impact because they're rare, meaning they're not something you can count on appearing when you need them, and compounded on that is their relative weakness (0AC, no guaranteed good brand or anything).

>>170964000
Scarves are the only way to get RMsl now, but you probably won't find one.

>>170963879

delusional

>>170964257
Exactly. If you average it out over however many games, the number of worthless scarves you find is going to be a lot lower than the number of scarves with RMsl.

I'VE BEEN IN A COMA FOR THREE MONTHS AND MY BIRTHDAY IS TOMORROW
WHAT CHANGES HAVE OCCURED TO CATACLYSM DDA
ALSO HOW IS TRUMP STILL PRESIDENT HOLY FUCK

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Gozag truly the best god.

>>170965160
Xom is love, Xom is live

>>170964995

>I'VE BEEN IN A COMA FOR THREE MONTHS
>ask about a roguelite
>ask about a brainless question

Tsk, you should have slept forever you literal waste of food and oxygen

>>170964995
Performance, some QoL, no more spending 5 minutes to pick a gas tank, construction skill removed (made constructions actually usable), better limb healing.
Rest is mostly minor fixes

>>170966148
>construction skill removed (made constructions actually usable)
damn, can't wait to get out of rehab and test this out

>>170965939
>>ask about a roguelite
What should he ask about?
We're in roguelite general because all """roguelikes""" here are modal.

>>170966270

How can roguelikes be real if literally all of them can be savescummed? This is why the berlin interpretation is incomplete since it should definitely include "Savescummable" as one of the Major Value factors of real roguelikes

>>170966842
here people discuss which don't savescum

>>170966842
the definition should not be if savescumming is possible. It changes literally nothing for you, as you don't savescum.
The definition should include if permadeath is possible, this is the important part (and the game should be balanced around permadeath)

>>170969432
permadeath was just an engine limitation back when the original rogue was programmed because they hadn't invented savefiles yet

>>170969663
yea same thing with being tile based
and turn based
real-time sprite based roguelikes like spelunky are the best

>>170969663
False. Rogue had save and quit. Deleting the save file on death was a deliberate choice to allow competitive play, same as on the old PLATO CRPGs.

Are you faggots going to argue about what is and isn't a roguelike in every goddamn thread? Do you realize you say the same things to the same people every time this comes up?

>>170970213
Isn't spelunky modal?

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>>170970809
Dead thread, no FotM, the void won't fill itself

>>170970841
non-modality was just an engine limitation because computers at the time weren't powerful enough to handle multiple modes

Demon of Khorne is both powerful and fun if you power through the part when you're a dog. Not sure if the weapon you get when you hit bloodthirster is set stats or not, or if you can take it off (should've tried) or reforge/enchant it.

On a related note, don't fight uniques if your _speed is empty.

>>170971632
Procedural generation was just an engine limitation because computers at the time weren't powerful enough to keep whole levels in memory

>>170971632
tileset was just an engine limitation because computers at the time weren't powerful enough to handle ascii graphics

>>170971863
programmers at the time were just too lazy to hand-design levels

>>170970978
/rlg/ is atm just people posting screenshots of them dying and berlin trolls

>>170961965
Well, yeah. It even has a real turn-based mode, if that's your thing. It's just too shallow to support any real discussion.

>>170971712
The 1d50 sword? Yeah that's fixed. Probably the best character to find a ring of power on.
Actually does weaponmastery synergise with the swordmaster's wild weapon sustain? Does the dice boost happen before or after it the class power massages the weapon's damage dice into their new shape?

>>170972591
doesn't the berlin turn based implied that it must not be real time?

>>170970809
Yes and yes.

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i am notoriously shit at understanding ascii games, but I found cataclysm DDA and it looks sweet as fuck

how do i into a zombie apocalypse?

>>170972847
Implies but does not outright state it. Turn based with time limits is still turn based, even if the limits are strict enough to make it a rhythm game.

>>170973119
Make a spear, use its reach attack to kill the dudes. Become entranced by the cockroach king and build a kingdom of guile and greed. Except instead of guile, its oats and purified water.

>>170973154

>time limits

NOT A ROGUELIKE

We need to update the faq to kick out the berlin interptretation and come up with a good definition so the fags can stop crying roguelite at every 2nd roguelike posted here

>>170973498
Eventually the computer will break or you will die IRL.

>>170973724
Any definition is going to end up looking a lot like the Berlin interpretation anyway, and most of the game the shitters shitpost roguelite at already fit the Berlin interpretation well enough.

>>170973925
>you will die IRL
wow life is kinda like rogue
really sizzles the synapses

>only way to watch top-tier players is via ttyrecs
>ttyrecs are in ascii, even when tiles were used
>a tilebabby like me is thus forced to get used to this aesthetic

not gonna lie, i can see the appeal of ascii now. once you get somewhat used to it, it's not that awful.

>>170974171
>life is modal though

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>>170973119

>>170974219
for me it's the other way around lol. I always found tiles so shabby and loved the simplicity of ascii. But now that I tried tiles I don't have to immeadiately puke when I see them

>>170974083
Does the Berlin Interpretation say that all points must be in the game, or is there room for interpretation?

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>>170974275
>life is just a grindy roguelite with shit mechanics and amazing graphics

Tiles are objectively better for crawl because they convey more information at a glance than the ascii is capable of.

>>170974510
>for me it's the other way around lol
lol

>Does the Interpretation say there is room for interpretation?
huh
really ionizes those nerves

>>170974510
Depends on how you interpret it.

wtf is this game, it looks like dwarf fortress.. ?

>>170975101
>it carries an ancient foul curse

>>170975101
Maybe it is dwarf fortress.

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>>170974171

Woah...

>>170974219

Feed someone enough trash and he will acquire a taste for it.

>>170976208
like pcb

>>170976458
what a trash game
no tiles, no mouse interface, it doenst even have a way to have multiople lives like dcss and tome
fuckign /lite/ garbage imo

I can't clear Lair and Orcish Mines as MiBe, I am only able to beat the first floor, then I die. How much do I have to level before I clear them?

>>170977881
Generally, you enter lair as soon as you can. Maybe do an extra dungeon floor or two if you feel pretty diesel, or if you're one of the few characters who prefers to do as much dungeon as possible before lair. (like a MuWz). What are you dying to in particular?

>>170978042
I die when there are too much ranged enemies so my berserk runs out when I try to reach them

>>170978138
Learning how to berserk is the biggest part of MiBe. It'll let you win almost any fight, but a good rule of thumb is to NOT berserk when there are lots of ranged dudes present. Evoke feet into a better position, where their ranged attacks are all but useless and engage. For threats like orc priests, who can smite you from anywhere in LoS, you want to either shoot them yourself or break that line of sight with hallways, stairs and so on. Also, I can almost guarantee that you aren't using summon battle brother enough. Use that. It'll save you when things go wrong. Also, play slower.

>>170978138
don't spam berserk so much then
in fact dont even use berserk in the first place

>>170978513
>Play MiBe
>Don't berserk
Berserk has a high learning curve, my man. But you should use it more than not, if you have it.

>Vehumet gives you the exact spells you want so that you have Sticky Flame, Airstrike and Ignite Poison by the end of lair

Thanks Papa Veh

>>170978385
thanks, I will try play more conciously in my next playthroughs. It's always easy to blame RNG because you are so imcompetent that you don't even know what you do wrong^^

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>>170978570

>Berserk has a high learning curve

Stupid minotaur! Berserk has no learning curve and I would endlessly spank your butt until you understand!

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Alright dudes, NEW SLASH'EM EXTENDED!!! Play the brand-new bleeding-edge version 1.9.3 on our server at em.slashem.me now! SAVEGAME ERROR CRUSHED! New items, monsters, traps and all kinds of other stuff await the fearless adventurer - have fun! :)

>>170980609
Thanks for the update, as always, bud.

>>170977881

You have the option of travelling to the nearest mental institution, undergoing the psychiatric evaluations and filling out the necessary application documents.

Is there any advantage in dcss for being satiated? I tried google but wiki is old and rest is trash. I head you get more xp when you are full?
Is the gourmet amulet worth?

>>170983767
>I head you get more xp when you are full?
What? No.

>>170983767
your character performs better overall when full
satiated and very full slow you down a bit, engorged slows you down a lot and reduces EV but doesn't affect most other aspects of your character. also every state at and above satiated increases your hunger rate
When you're hungry, you perform a bit worse at most actions because your hunger distracts you
very hungry-near starving you stop regenerating health, along with uncancellable slow status, which lasts 100 turns (24 hours) after eating
starving causes double slow with HP loss each turn; lasts 700 turns (1 week) after eating before you recover fully
btw don't burn your raw meat or you might get cancer
also don't undercook or you might get tapeworms

>>170985912
That's C:DDA not DCSS you cheeky leek

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Nice.

>the -5 cloak of Zofaec {rPois Str+2}

Acquirement is SHIIIIIIIIT

>>170921213
>Tabbing through trash mobs in tome, be archmage
>accidentally double tap across a corner in Lake
>electric eels do two criticals in two turns
>die

>Tabbing through Far East with my bulwark
>orc patrols everywhere

this isn't fun

>>170977316
Underrated.

>>170989114
i dropped tome when my psionic with 1k+hp, shields, decent resists and shit got oneshot by an unique from the chest

>>170974647
The only reasons to ever play ascii are:

>Tiles not offered
>Webtiles is laggier than shelling in

>>170983767
hunger in dcss literally doesnt matter
the only two effects are
- you have to be satiated to equip vampiric weapons (usually this costs a ration)
- bad shit happens if you somehow get all the way down to starving despite getting F R E E food everytime you press c on top of a corpse
unless you are spamming high level spells with no investment in the spellcasting skill (which reduces hunger costs), you will never run into any problems
hungry ghosts and deathcobs dont even exist anymore, either

>>170959927
Mephitic cloud:
>is louder than shouting
>can block ice/flame/mutagenic/chaos clouds from spawning in a tile
>trivializes 90% of D:1 to Lair
>can confuse enemies through zot
>can confuse Antaeus (pretty low chance per turn, but it can happen)
>only costs 3 MP