/rlg/ - Roguelike General

>>158532868
There's nothing good about elves.

>>158532868
I squeezed duvessa's butt with my tentacles and she dropped her weapon only for her to be lethally poisoned by it. Their wrists are limp.

Stop sexualizing minmay

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reminder to report and ignore stag fags.

>>158533440
you can fuck the stag, you cant fuck the goddess of virginity

>>158533465
>you cant fuck the goddess of virginity
Reminder that anal doesn't count.

>>158533465
You know, it never occurred to me why artemis is weak to physical attacks.

Suddenly it all makes sense.

>>158533465
you can do legitimately anything you want to your property dude

>>158533746
she resists body though

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>>158533993
What about this demon?

>>158534050
>those tits
not awoo at all

Trying to jump in maidensnow eve and I can't figure it out oh god I'm terrible

it has fucking weird controls

>>158534006
Not the guy you're responding to:

Because Sauron tricked Ar-Pharazon into invading the Undying Lands where humans are barred, making him think they're the Undying Lands because if you live there you will be immortal, rather than them being undying because immortals live there.

Eru (allegory for God) got so PISS that he changed the planet from a flat plane to a sphere with a loud cracking sound and this flooded Numenor.

Sort of a bizarre overreaction but on the other hand the idea of the world being round because some powerful being wanted to keep humans from sneaking off of it (so that if you traveled far enough you'd just show up where you were before) strikes me as mildly interesting.

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>>158534087
awoo is all grown up now

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Name ONE (1) video game character than can defeat him.
Protip: You can't

>>158534382
Asura

>>158534382
@ with an antisummoning amulet scummed from the depths of 555

>>158534280
I answered him in the prior thread already.

>where humans are barred
Because the Valar are racist cunts.

>>158534552
>already
Excuse me for being 49 seconds too late

Also I was curious whether it would show a little reply thingy for an out of thread reply

>>158534619
Just informing you bro.

But yeah how 'bout them Valar. Bunch of unlikeable gits except Ulmo, eh?

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>>158534087
>>158534317
Updated

>>158535001
I gotta admit that max SP draining would be horrendously OP.

>>158532868
le edition maymay xD

>>158528136
amberites have intrinsic regen as well as racial powers to cast Restoration and Alter Reality

>>158535235
Faggot.

>>158534863
There's a lot of things I find really interesting about ME but the 'balance' of the setting was really borked in my opinion, just one bad 'valar' and a bajillion 'good' valar plus of course a God expy just struck me as overkill

>>158535446
Well the bad Valar pretty much overpowered all the good Valar except one.

But really, the issue that bothers me is how the Valar treat humans like shit and ignore them.

>>158535290
thanks. Don't have PCB on me right now, but whats good about demigod of a minor god? they have 180% xp but only +1 across the board compared to dunadan who has better stats with only 160% xp

>>158535316
kill yourself

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>a sage on each floor so far

>>158535556
all demigods get to choose twice from the demigod perk list, at levels 20 and 40. minor god has no advantage other than xp% over the other demigod subraces though

humans (HUMAN humans, the boring ones) get a single demigod perk at level 30

oh yeah and i think draconians get a racial perk too but their list isn't as cool as the demigod one

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>Come onto new floor
>Sheep, dryad and bugbear all in the room
>Try to run into a corridor
>Nope, Dryad summoned friends
>NOPENOPENOPE
Fuck, I have no idea how to save myself now

>>158535797
demon has redcaps

>>158535952
You can use your jump attack to go south and hopefully get to a door.

>>158536025
Got rekt

>>158535952
This game makes me think about how there's a lot of untapped potential for ero in roguelikes.

>>158536339
RIP. Note that you can also jump over watch with your jump attack. And that going super inquisitor is an instant action that will cure most debuffs, like bind and knock down. :^)

slash'em or slash'em extended?

>>158536731
I couldn't successfully jump in the tutorial. It'd always becoem unavailable onceI reached the jump point. I don't know what super inquisitor is either.

>>158536951
You have a super mode that'll increase damage/defense. You can activate it with holy water after charging up your meter I think. Its been a while. Jumping is super wonky.

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>>158537091
Cross/lance of fire?

>>158536726
Yeah, a lot of additional mechanics to give them shit to do with

>>158537226
Yep. Sometimes it'll activate if you're about to get your shit pushed in too. Make sure to abuse the shit of your vials. They're pretty busted.

>>158535001
well now i am hard

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>elona permadeath
I want to play it but this sounds horrible, who would grind for so long only to eventually die to some bullshit and lose it all?

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>>158537303
Fucking Entry vaults reeeeee
I can't pure like this

>>158537597
You only grind for extended game optional god battles

>>158537597
>i dont want roguelikes

>>158537759
Well I played it for 5 minutes and the little girl that I picked at the beginning somehow does a lot more compared to me. Feels like I need to grind to be worth anything and you guys have told me before that I need to do exactly that a lot in this game.
>>158537895
You don't really need to grind for a really fucking long time in roguelikes.

How do we fix Hand of the Dead?

After strength was changed, every melee range pure magical ability in the game indirectly became worse because anyone with low strength is squishy. Hand of the dead is full of those kinds of abilities.

>>158537597

>permadeath

Please don't do this. Just play on natural mode so you can't save/exitscum. Elona isn't designed with permadeath on.

>>158538263
>You don't really need to grind for a really fucking long time in roguelikes.
You do in every *band which is like half of all roguelikes

>>158538613
or just don't savescum instead of playing the weird mode that permanently reduces your stats if the game crashes?

>>158538613
>exitscumming is bad
>in an offline game designed purely around one's own fun with no goal in mind

I hope you live alone, wouldn't want anyone near you to catch autism.

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Half this shit came from the last two hordes that passed by my base. Fucking hell.

>>158538528
Secret tech is to pump 5 vitality/level for the ridiculous HP after Ferret fixed it. Forget about stats for damage

>>158538263
>Shitposters keep sending people on the ruse cruise
If you aren't hitting shit you aren't training your skills. Bench her for a bit if it gets out of hand. also, pets generally have an easier time training their potentials and they get a multiplier on their stat gains. They also get an ass ton of xp hitting stuff in jobs while you're running around picking plants and grabbing loot. Once you start unlocking the tier 2 jobs, have all your skills unlocked so you can start unfucknig your potentials and you're getting potions of potiontial to bless and quaff it inverts unless you're doing multipet

>>158538905
It is literally never optimal to go 5/level for any stat. The impact would fall off incredibly hard after a while. If you want ridiculous HP, soul armor a Well Fed Python.

>>158538894
I don't think you understand what it is to see 11 zombie hulks, 3 shocker brutes, 8 brutes, 3 necromancers, 3 masters, and a smattering of other zombies. You haven't gotten ptsd yet.

>>158538784

>play roguelike
>not autistic

does not compute

>>158539096
It's fine, anon. I've rammed through towns in a killdozer before too. Don't have to epeen about something trivial.

>>158539008
>doing jobs in elona
modal as fuck

>>158539096
where's that guy that sets his spawn rate at 100x and throws caltrops all over towns to clear them out

>>158538263
The little girl is not so good. I always skip the first town and go to the one to the left, and hire a female mage slave.

>>158539094
I might actually have to try out a soul armor with a well fed actaeon on a veil tank. The hp would be insane although the resists are shit

>>158539096
I usually play with max zombies and max evo, that's just tuesday.

Only real problem is that they destroy all the houses almost instantly and every drop is instantly destroyed by acid, so it kind of sucks.

>>158539865
doesn't well fed have -20% speed too

i think the resists are probably more important than hp especially if you can just do like freezing veil + tormentor + refresh and constantly keep your healer recharged

>>158539875
Acid destruction has been gone for ages

>>158539865
>well fed actaeon
I believe you've made some sort of mistake here.

>>158539970
Each 2% speed is supposed to change hp by 1%, with lower speed giving more hp. So maybe a well-fed zombie would be better because zombies are way slower, with similar number of weaknesses

>>158540081
I'm pretty sure you can do it if you feed the deer to something else, revive the deer, then feed the well-fed demon back to actaeon. I've never tried it but other people have talked about fusing the same unique to multiple demons in their party by reviving the fused unique.

>>158540078
Oh seriously? Huzzah.


>>158539865
Have you ever managed to afford anything remotely significant with Soul Armor?

The credits system holds back what could be a really great game.

>fatfinger z instead of a
>Attack
>Absolutely smashed by some dick ogre guy on wilds:5
>Butt and mouthed furiously raped
>Forget that the system is retarded and I have to manually swap from endure to resist
Mad as fuck

>>158540216
Keep in mind that the bonus HP from speed caps at 25% in either direction, so you don't receive any benefits from going below 50% speed.

>>158540303
Soul Armor's cost is proportional to how "good" the result is.

>>158540481
Incursion...?

>>158540303
Yea, I recently played around with soul armor on my last character. The costs are ridiculous. Each resist costs a huge amount, immunity costs a bit more, and weakness reduces the cost by a marginal amount. You basically have to drop all spending on anything else for several levels and full clear each level with SEPI and item sense for bonus credits to afford anything good. Wisp soul armor is hilariously overpriced for the horrible weaknesses it gives you. Not to mention that more resists means less HP.

>>158540491
Zombies are like 70-80% speed though right? So there's still room for HP gain by making it slower.

>>158540679
Maidensnow eve

>>158540695
>resists mean less HP
>HP is also impacted by speed

Well thank you, this helps a lot.

The game is so fucking hell bent on being biased against playing a tank and towards being someone who plays keep away that I will just accept it and have my summons be a tank like a normal person.

i mean if a demon gets lowhp you just fuckin desummon it

if a player gets lowhp he's fucked and probably has to blow some consumables

If you go full veil tank madman on the player character and don't even pick up an attack, then Juggernaut is a good pickup because you can just constantly walk back and forward in fights for FREE defense. Probably not that great of an idea.

>>158540695
Soul Armor could theoretically just have a fixed cost if the HP modifiers that came with resistances and weaknesses were rebalanced. But the thing about having more HP is that it becomes exponentially better, and that's why low speeds got nerfed. More HP means higher base regen, better scaling with Guilt, better scaling with Regenerate, and all of these things scale with Malleable. The longer you take to kill, the more turns you're alive to regain HP, which increases the time you take to kill. Also, Diehard may scale off modified max HP. If you have to deal 10% of something's max HP in damage to have a good chance of killing it through Diehard, and it has 200 max HP, you have a problem.

>>158540951
Veil tanks are the MiBe of Demon my man. Literally pump 5 vit/level, stack veils or 25% defense abilities, two healers at all times, walk up to enemies and let them kill themselves on you.

>>158541064
This is true. But ranged characters with low defenses can sometimes get unlucky and bursted down really quickly, for example walking around the corner into a pounce/bull rush pack.

>>158541202
Guilt is damage based healing so it's not affected by malleable (which means it's affected gluttony now that I think about it). Also that could be true about diehard triggering the cooldown less often with more HP, but poison and ignite are common enough that it feels iffy to rely on it.

>no follow up to the worm misadventures of infra arcana

>>158542094
Guilt is triggered by damage, but the damage doesn't affect how much is healed.

>>158542094
Wait, the damage doesn't suck with all into vitality?

>nobody likes pcb anymore now that the bug was fixed

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>mfw felid

>>158542735
>actually sleeping
come back when they all wake up and immediately surround you before you even get a chance to go back up

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>>158542801
how about this guy who just came down the stairs

>>158542528
Are you sure the heal strength is not damage dependent? Well it is triggered by dealing damage at least, and malleable says "Does not affect healing received based on dealing damage."

>>158542548
The damage will drop to ~75% of normal, but compared to a character putting 4 points of damage stat each level (175% of normal), you're doing less than half damage. But with ~5 damage veils triggering each turn on each enemy in the pack plus your active attack(s), the damage adds up really quick.

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>>158542932
I can't stop shitting myself even thought I know I should be fine

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>hmm, I'm bored, let's take a look at some random tavern post
>title: Hexes do not become useless late game.
>Lasty
>Confuse allows you to disable the majority of the game's dangerous monsters for a few mp from full screen range. It's powerful because it's a safe and generally fairly reliable way to get kills on many dangerous monsters for a tiny investment. There's nothing to prevent you from using it with non short blades.
>instantly press ctrl+W

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>Go to a new floor
>You're in a party room!
>Animation plays showing 2 dryads 8 dudes
>Message log screams by as 5 of the lobsters leap, 5 ogres charge, and I see a smattering of the rape sheep and giant dickmen that basically vaporize me
>Use backflip, buffs, dash aoe, redemption debuffing, wands, scrolls, bullets as hard as I can't but I can't stop the tide even after killing a good 20 of them
>Never even spotted a portal out
I was dead the moment I arrived. RIP +5 hound short sword of power

>>158543063
Link? I'd love to see him go on about how casting conf 8 times to pass a 20% mr check on anything that actually matters or up against MR immune is more OP than iron shot, fireball, LRD, or any aoe. We don't even have mass conf anymore and conf is spellpower capped. Not to mention frenzy is dogshit even with cheistats and int gear to compensate for every single hex enhancer being removed from the game. The majority of stuff that hexes work on outside of the midgame is trash you'd have just normally killed.

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>>158542718
rip

>>158542718
>fix the android rune knight and 777 exploit that let you skip al lthe stupid shit of the game so you can go get double move mana stormed or whatever other bullshit kills you in the endgame
>Surprised people don't want to put up with tedious grindy bullshit where the "lessons" you learn from splatting are happening when you're 30+ hours into a run
There was a reason rogue was short.

>>158542718
I'll just play the old version with 555 if it becomes fotm again

>>158543838
wait they nerfed runeknights?

>>158543916
Yeah, you're no longer a sheckle factory and the mp potions are nerfed for rune knights

>>158543616

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21955&sid=ee63d5d64d99251c6fc0671cf257473e

The real question is how people who don't even know how to play the game are allowed inside a development team instead of the dumpster. I think this is ample proof that crawl """""community""""" is basically a cesspool

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>>158543616
Hey, your animations seem to be working. Not sure why but I recently got a new computer and had to re-download MSE and for some reason the Knockdown animations do not work. The option in the config is stuck- Cant change it. Any idea what happened?

>>158544050
>Because there are plenty of enemies that resist them. Just because you can kill something with them doesn't mean you can solve all of your problems with them.
Please kill me

>>158544050
I mena yeah, it was something when you had polymorph, enslavement, mass conf and other strong hexes but it's just a sad gutted school that's going the way of charms, stealth, and summoning.

>>158544154
I have no idea. Like 2 years ago I did whatever the pasta told me and got on with life. Redownloaded it this morning and everything worked still. It's so frustrating cause you hit the point where yeah I can disable a tormentor or some draconians. Whoop de fucking do. I could have gotten real skill and killed all of them in view in half the turns and mp.

Ok how do hexes prevent you from getting tormented
Note JUST HEXES, not stealth + hexes

Dont worry lads, since they are removing sleeping and paralyze needles hexes will be the only thing left for stabbers :)

>>158544389
>Tormentors and hellions have fairly low MR (60)

>>158544487

ahahahahaha

>>158544487
Wow didn't know that only tormentors had torment
Guess I always did Tomb wrong
>just learn silence

Reminder that elliptic regularly blows the fuck out of lasty, see haste rework

>>158544389
If, keyword IF because SOMEONE WHO WILL NOT BE NAMED DECIDED LOLOLOLOLOL LETS REMOVE MASS CONFUSION, you have a clear line of sight to them you can zap a couple times. But that's still a wild fucking nothing because you can do the same with launchers or a bunch of spells.Fucking spergs.

>>158544557
Really should. It, vipers, prism, dazzling spray and others are freebies.

>hell - one that increased your weapon damage output enough to kill them in a handful of turns.
which hex is that

Reminder that they ruined spectral weapon too

>>158544767
WHAT? What'd they do?

I always thought the big endgame spell of hexes was darkness and not the debuffs

>>158544696
Spectral weapon which now is far more reliant on spellpower and you still get fucked up when the enemy slams it senseless

>>158544807
damage scales with spellpower rather than weapon skill, so youre 5 int mifi can't get it to 10% and double his damage any more

>>158544807
Scales with spellpower instead of weaponskill
max spellpower is only as strong as 14 weaponskill before

>a literal retard is in the development team
>no one questions it
>not a single soul
>crawl """"""community""""""

>>158544839
>Have maxed stealth + bar
>have 3 tile LoS with nightstalker and robe of the night
>Fucking orc and hobgobs shouts and wakes up everything for screens in those 2 tiles
It's disgusting

I told you niggers already that they need a hexes/poison level 9 spell that instant kills non-resistant targets and lethally poisons resistant targets, and mass paralysis/mass banishment as high level hexes spells. Also level 9 acid storm for conj/poison. Best way to fix those shit schools

>>158544903
>one
>forgetting about minmay
Its all council based anyway, a dev proposes something and everyone votes on it (all of them agree except elliptic generally)

>>158544906
>Acid spell
NOT ALLOWED
literally in the source code that they wont do acid spells

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>>158544903
>a literal retard is in the development team
Holy shit what? Who?

>>158544906
But oglebs pretty much does that already

>>158545003
Corin/Lastly

Have they removed digging yet

>>158544906

I suggested a lvl 8/9 spell that is basically Olgreb lvl 2 but with the need to recast more often and doesn't have a screenwide range

Is there even any dev on the DCSS team that /rlg/ likes?

>>158545329
Nope. Some would be okay then the cancer from all the other baddevs spreads to them

>>158545407

>hehe if you don't implement this [absolutely abhorrent update/rework that everyone will hate] you will get removed from the team!

What a noble sacrifice!

>>158545521
but tavern loves everything
hell tavern is still mad that digging is in

Pretty sure elliptic and yermak use pretty much everything to win runs

>>158544973
Does elliptic disagree because he's a principled and sensible person or because muh speedruns?

How do I use water in a vehicle tank?

I have a funnel over it. It's collected 2L. I put a faucet on it. I don't know how to affix my suckhole to the metal bit.

>>158544973

>circlejerk voting
>instead of letting the community as a whole discuss the proposed idea on a designated forum for 1 month at max and implementing the said result/not implementing at all of the discussion

>>158545896
use a rubber hose and siphon like gas

>>158545943
>Let's ask the niggers if they want more welfare
Community is and always will be shit. Haste as a spell without any drawbacks was far too strong and you would never get a community to support that.

>>158545271
>gave us caustic shrikes
As expected from a retard.

>>158546036
>use a hose
The fuck is the point of the faucet then?

>>158546050
examine usage so you can interact with it without wanting to kill yourself after a week.

>>158546108
>examine usage
I have no idea what you're trying to tell me. It's like 4am and I've been up since 4 yesterday.

>>158546036

Idiot, a community is always good for any gaming community. Sure there'd be a lot of bloat opinions to swim into but there are also a lot of potentially good ideas to fix a Dev A's proposal that most in the community will agree with.

>>158546180
You can hit e then refill it, fill a container, or drink directly without siphon menu autism

>>158546195
The community is always fucking retarded. That's the first rule of any community. It's swallowing nails to get them to do the hard but right thing as well as keep power creep away.

>>158546306

>The community is always fucking retarded

Arrogance like this is how you end up with garbage like Crawl.

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>>158546306
You're telling me to examine the spot on the vehicle with the tank/faucet as if it were a vehicle welding rig.

When I try that, nothing happens. A rig would give me the prompt asking whether I want to examine the vehicle or use the rig. Trying to do this with the faucet does nothing.

>>158546451
Fucking kill yourself. If you want ncrawl or circus animals, go play it.

>>158546463
faucet's for clean water. Gotta siphon the regular. You'll get a water purifier to nail into it fairly soon and you can just examine that to purify until your clean tank is full.

>>158546543
>faucet's for clean water
OH. Crystal thanks.

I bought adom. Did I fuck up?

>>158546708
yeah, pretty badly.

>>158546543

Why are you mad? Are you, by chance, a Crawldev?

>>158545158
HAHAHAAHAhha893hj98'j38'9j rfuinhjseuhnf
What are these people doing in our community, i bet he doesnt even have a single win under his belt

>>158546793
No, but if you think fucking retards agree with a change that is good for the game but hurts them or wont power creep you're delusional. Go ahead and tally up how many accounts have 10 wins or more and those who don't. Cause those crybabies are your "community"

>>158546768
I also got tome

>>158546971

Did you just unironically imply that every Crawl player is contained in tavern and anyone with 10 wins or more cannot be retarded?

>>158547245
Would you trust people who can't even play let alone be actually good at endgame content make tough balance decisions? Cause if so I'll ironic your anus to the size of kansas. People that don't know what they're doing can fuck off. And no, m-muh haste! Muh free ACskin! Muh unlimited tele trap summon spam! Muh two hundred ac cigutovi's! is not helping.

Reminder that Lasty has a 50% win or so rate online and is living proof that being good at DCSS neither means you know anything about game design, nor requires any level of rational deduction skills.

>>158547425

What? So you just don't know how a community works? Take a look at this example that actually happened in this very thread quite some time ago: Haste+Finesse bugfix.

Anon A was saying that Haste+Finesse is awesome. Anon B and some others argued that it doesn't. Anon A posted a picture that disproved them. Anon X sent a pull request that got the bug fixed

We do not have any idea about the identities of these anons nor what their winrates are. They might be a single decimal winrate skrub or worse, none at all but the fact that they helped the bug get fixed and improve the game in general doesn't change. This is a result of a lot of people regardless of status gathering together to discuss things = a community.

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How the goatfucker am I supposed to do the party room levels in maidensnow eve? I don't get enough food for vit to farm the first couple wilds levels for area effect items and wildly overleveling yourself. I can't shoot the monsters fast enough. It's impossible to run to the portal you don't know the location of because of crows and ranged sheep/tentaplants. You can't get pregnant and slink off with your shame because there's far more than your body can satisfy. I just get game over'd every time I rng into a party room

The only reason i even knew where the portal was to make it in time was cause a dryad thing summoned near it. Even then I pretty much lost everything trying to make it to it.

>>158547747
And Anon A is still upset about it.

What tool is required to repair casters+shopping carts?

Soldering iron or Welder?

>>158549057
Welder or duct tape

>>158547428

Looks like being retarded is a talent in itself

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Had to try and kill a lord of the border. Blew every consumable I had and it still wasn't enough. It's nuts trying to stay alive and space out the rape's enough that I at least get out alive. Even my gun got broke in the fighting. Hope I can keep the worm crab thing's inscription on my uterus though. That'll really save my bacon later if I can prevent getting it raped out of me or my bastard kid killing me.

>>158546451
But the community IS fucking retarded, that why Crawl is so bad. They just keep sucking cock and loving all the fucking retarded garbage the devs inflict on the game.

>>158552950
Most changes have been good though

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=21928&sid=9809bea7154ec88b41836f17159022b0

>>158553143
Most changes are just bugfixes, yes.

But most removals are not there to better the game, they are to soothe the autism of shitty players who are so fucking compulsive that they MUST abuse EVERY advantage to the maximum.

You think I'm joking? Check out the controversy with Dig, for example -- the controversy is that because to make the Orb run easier you CAN dig a straight path between stair cases, the autists feel like they MUST do so.

Do you know why Extension was removed? Again, not to make the game better, but because of a guy arguing with the devs over how he CAN save on spell slots by preparing Necromutation once... casting it until he succeeds... forgetting it to free the slots... and using Extension repeatedly to prolong it for the rest of the game.

Keep in mind I don't use "autist" lightly, but "I must play a perfect game every time RRRRARRRGGGHHH" strikes me as so.

>>158553393
Dont forget the guy that excluded every tile he walked on because of traps
Cant wait to see what fun stuff comes out of that

>>158553393
extend was retarded though, nothing you couldnt do by just recasting the spell

>>158553143
>removals of spells, races and backgrounds
>nerfs and complete butcherings of gods
>nerfing and removing everything that might in some autist's perfectly efficient run be """"""""""scummy""""""""""
>energy randomization, speeding up slow enemies and nerfing or removing every way the player can speed up

>>158553737
muh highelves

>>158553546
Jesus Fucking Christ.

but that's exactly the problem. In any other situation, this kind of completely pathological NO FUN ALLOWED player would be ignored.

>>158553737

Most of the removals were good.

>remove scummy features

Sounds good to me. Actually, those people who actually even thought of adding those scummy features should be removed too.

>>158553938
Name 5 good removals

>>158553965

1. Haste
2. rMut amulet
3. Pakellas
4. slime walls
5. stoneskin a.k.a scumskin

>>158553965
Branded ammo
Most decks, and decks for most characters
Djinnis
Twisted Resurrection
Tomb of Doroklohe

>>158554053
>>158554112
Crawldrones, everybody.

>>158554112
Branded ammo makes a difference via overriding when you get frost brand on your launcher and you actually need it to do damage

>>158554223
It got removed because it DIDNT override it, it multiplicated it
So you did Frostfire damage

>>158554223
Brands are less than 30% of your dmg, stop crying

>>158554172

>y-you c-crawldrone!! waaahhh

1&2 no drawbacks = scummy
3 unlicharge = scummy
4 slime walls = bloat, no relevance to the game at all after TRJ is defeated except being a nuisance to a MuMo/Ru sacrifice evo and/or earth and/or conj
5 no drawbacks = scummy

>>158554440
>losing an amulet slot
>16 fucking charms
>no drawbacks

>>158554495

Oh yeah? I'm pretty sure you're retarded enough to wear an rMut for the whole duration of the game once you get it

weapons are scummy
they give you more damage for no drawback
same with weapon brands

When are they going to remove silence and regen

>>158554495

>16 charms

What are you, some 2 (two) int minotaur trying to cast Haste? Just give up already, your MiBrain can't handle it even in its [Removed™] state.

The fuck is the difference between 0.19 beta and trunk

>>158555408
Well probably not much now, since 0.19 just got split off of trunk.

>>158547837
>I don't get enough food for vit to farm the first couple wilds levels
You know the cat will sell you bread, right? Get to the cave ASAP, and you have a base actually worth retreating to. Sell junk, buy food, repair your shit, and you can proceed as cautiously as you like.

Is there a drawback of having a dick in Maidensnow?

>>158556553
How do I reliably find the cave? I ended up using the lamp post thing to escape after failing to kill the wild hunt forest boss, get raped dozens of times and birth two kids then lucked into it during one of my low level gear scum runs

>>158556817
The portals all tell you where they lead, but I haven't played in a while, and can't remember what the text for the cave actually is.
Pick a direction, and take the same portal every time. If you end up back in the starting area, or find the town, it was the wrong one.
I'm gonna see if I can find it myself so I can give proper directions.

>>158556817
>>158557394
It's "Head lowland to avoid blizzard". Do that until you find the cave entrance.
The lamppost things always take you back to the last safe area, so once you find the cave, they'll teleport you there instead.

Note that you don't _have_ to take down orbs of fire.

>>158557846
Thanks. I was always going to the starter area or town

>>158553938
Do you get any sort of satisfaction from sucking up to game devs?

>>158558127
Yeah you can just let them malmutate the fuck out of you.

>>158558127
didnt some guy win with XL6 recently

>>158558127

simply ((((ebin)))) post

In Elona, how the hell do I check what equip slots does my pet have?

>>158558232

What do you mean? Most of the removals are indeed good. So do you have any defenses for your bloat/scum features or not?

>>158558543
You keep repeating yourself, illustrating pretty well where the drone insult comes from.

>>158558748

Aah, so you have none obviously. That's good, that means you fully understand the essence and importance of removing bloat and scummy features. Keep up the good work

>>158558473
(I)nteract or (G)ive. You can gene engineer in limbs until they have 13 slots without a speed penalty. Then you can splcie oddball species and raise off of mutant farms and wild mutant races monsters to get other funky slot combos

>>158559498
Yeah, I've started gene engineering just now, gave the little durrgon back and waist slots I believe, but still don't know how to check for slots.
(G)ive just opens up my inventory, and (I)nteract has some things but none of them is CHECK SLOTS BRO

>>158559713
Give and hit 9 or whatever the hotkey on the hud tells you to switch to looking at his

File: 1453949243856.jpg (62KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 400x400px

>>158560015
oshet, I'm idort
thanks

Did summonning get nerfed in crawl? It feels weaker.

>>158560646
Yes and no. It's less exploity and it's been hard nerfed by no stairs/out of LoS attacks but the individual summons are somewhat stronger and more unique.

>Chindi spends two rounds buzzing around aimlessly instead of using Snuff Out against a low HP dark weak foe
>causes link to fail, filling level with distrust

I wish you could order allies to perform specific actions.

>>158560646
In many many ways.
>allies outside LoS become retarded and helpless
>cap on number of summons
>massive XP penalty for kills by summons

Its another case of the devteam listening to pathologically scummy players.

>>158561550
with every passing update i feel like i'm following this game's development less as a player invested in the outcome and more as an an anthropologist watching this trainwreck

>>158561550
>defending the old summoning
pls

>>158561550
>massive XP penalty for kills by summons
This is an old, old thing. It was originally removed because using summons to soften up an enemy and trying to land the final blow yourself - doing things in a really complicated way because your deep knowledge of game mechanics tells you it's the optimal solution - was everything the devs hated.

>>158562616
But they didn't actually remove the summoning xp penalty
>durr summoning OP, less xp
>nerf summoning to fucking dog shit
>don't remove the penalty
>dcss dev logic

>>158562950
It's their leadup to just removing summoning all together.

>>158562496

My friend, there are gradients between "you can flood the realm with unlimited dragons" and "half fucking XP and your minions get butchered if you have to step out of view for any reason."

>>158562616
>This is an old, old thing.

From my perspective, not hoarding a pile of dead bodies to drop all on Kiku altars at once for piety is pretty new.

>>158562496
There is a reason why Su is usually the least won background outside of Nemelex choices

>>158563484
>hoarding a pile of dead bodies to drop all on Kiku altars
I can remember victory dancing and grey elves, but not that.
I should probably try playing the old versions for a change.

>>158562616
>doing things in a really complicated way because your deep knowledge of game mechanics tells you it's the optimal solution - was everything the devs hated.
Isn't that the whole point we are hating on right now? Autists getting shit nerfed

Tell me, how would you fix haste?

>>158564416
There was nothing to fix.

>>158564416
make it cause exhaustion on receiving the buff and make it unable to haste exhausted characters

>>158564416
Remove renewable and infinite sources and adjust potion spawn rates.

>>158564318
/rlg/ doesn't have much understanding of game design in general so it's often just aspergers whining at autists for actually designing a game.

Actually nerfing things that are tedious makes great sense. Last-hitting things through summons isn't retarded because it triggers /rlg/, it's retarded because it means you have to use convoluted yet easy tactics to play well.

The problem here is that summoning of the crawl kind is inherently bad and there is no way to fully fix it.

>>158564259
>Game selected: Dungeon Crawl Ancient 4.1.2a
>No o
>No tab
>Need to wield a knife to chop a corpse
>Spells can only be cast in straight lines
>Get sick from eating raw meat
It's like a whole different game.

>>158543063
Man, what the fuck is wrong with that nigga Lasty? Has he even played the game?

>>158564754
>cursed mace
>you die...

I like my lightning spire :<

>>158564940
Then it should be removed.

>>158564616
why didn't they did this?
maybe also causing slow after haste ends would be a balanced pay-off for being able to cast gotta go fast

>>158565035
Nah it gave contam to prevent chain hasting
which didnt matter because it didnt even go yellow before using it 4 times

What do we think of the new shrapnel spell that has a 90% chance to hit yourself

>>158564750
>/rlg/ doesn't have much understanding of game design
Neither do the DCSS devs and their retarded autismlord fellators. They're at a level of a shit DM that flips out when the players aren't staying exactly on the railroad and playing the game exactly like they wanted. The DCSS devs are the worst kind of combination of degenerate control freaks and retarded idea guys who do shit that makes no fucking sense.

A lot of roguelike development in present times is plagued by cancerous pretentious faggots who think they know anything about game design after somebody has taught them a bunch of buzzwords like "bloat" or "elegant".

>>158564808
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/lasty.html

>>158565385
>all his 15-runes are with easy scrub memecombos
mega-ass faggot

>>158565614
Hard to decide whether I pity Lasty or people who think 15-runing is relevant more.

Probably still Lasty.

>>158565385

>100k turncount 3 rune shitter

ahahahahaha

>>158565614
nobody gives a shit abotu 15runes
its just incredibly tedious and your character is maxed anyway

>>158565385
Seems I would also be on the devs list if my autism didn't pushed me to get the 15 runes on every rune. I feel like only winning with less than 15 runes is like playing Pokemon Emerald until you win the Elite Four and never going to the Bettle Frontier.

>>158565826
40k of those are casting confuse on orbs of fire

>>158565760
>>158565832
>15runes are not relevant
someone got memed by the tavernposters

korean-style crawling is the only way to play

Have you ever had fun while playing a roguelike?

>>158565984
Maybe if the extended branches were actually unique and not 8 times torment

>>158565832

Why is a game part that you can finish within 20k turncount considered tedious? Earlygame is the only close to tedious part of Crawl, nothing else.

>>158566061
they would be unique if lasty and the other faggots cared about them instead of butchering the early game
honestly, they reject every extended change

>>158566017
Fun is overrated.

>>158566017

You're thinking of Elona+

>>158554112
>djinnis
But life+mana was neat. It may not have been great, but I liked how unique it was.

Devs seem content to leave species in that have a minor variation on aptitudes and call it a day. Anything more extreme will get removed eventually.

>>158566449
but anon, grind != fun

>>158566017
I only play roguelikes for fun.

>>158566017
When I found the Dragonslayer in the ANgel of 100 challenge on DoomRL. It was the most cathartic moment of any game I've played. 70+ floors completely RIPPED AND TEARED.

>>158566337
I'm still mad about how they pay only attention to stupid bullshit that has no need to be changed, like fluff (RIP P), instead on focusing on the boring, atrocious parts of the game (Hells and Pan).

>>158566620

No anon, there are fun things in there besides grinding even if you're not new

>>158543063
Lasty is right tho. You can confuse around 50% of enemies right up to zot with around 40-60% success.

>>158566841
>wasting 2-3 turns and mp just to confuse a single distant monster for a few turns while more monsters are possibly walking towards you
Just train bows.

>>158566841

Do you know what late game is? You don't have the leisure to fiddle with lmao success """"""""rates"""""""" amirite especially in Pan/Hell/Tomb. The relevant enemies most probably won't even get affected by it anyway so it's always useless. Hexes does not have any use at all in late game.

>>158567078
Confuse is literally death ray when an enemy gets confused. There really isn't anything stopping you from kiting enemies 1 by 1 and taking 3-5 40% confuse chances on them, for a low-medium investment in hexes. Especially when hexes have other good spells to invest towards. I've long thought that confuse is a grievous balance crime, but I'm not calling for it to be removed or anything. I'm just surprised you guys don't know how busted it is.

>>158566017
I don't like this question.

>>158567254
You don't use it in pan/hell/tomb, you goof. Its for a 3 rune. And pan/hell/tomb is postend, not lategame.

>defending Lasty and his opinions about game ((((design))))
quaff some bleach

>>158566769
They've done a lot for Pan, dude. New abilities for Pan lords, and a very cool monster race (demonspawn).

For hell and pan alike there are the BAD ASS hell sentinels.

>>158567279
A spell that requires you to be able to kite an enemy away from the group -and- requires about 25 mp or so on average isn't "busted." That's more "barely clinging to life."

>>158567390
>And pan/hell/tomb is postend, not lategame.
maybe if you are a faggot worried about your 'win'-streak e-penis

>>158567404
>Just because dev is makes bad choices doesn't mean they can be right every now and then
Nigga, I'm speaking as someone who has played that hex game. I even based my loremaster run around the hex start because of how dumb confuse is. There are just so many enemies that are essentially invalidated because you can nail them with 10+ turns of confusion at the drop of a hat. Shock wasps, orb spiders, most dragons, deep trolls, draconians. It just goes on.

>>158567801
>25 MP on average
This is false, but I can see why people would think that. When your success rate is low, (like sub40 low), you have to depend on your other tools.

>kite an enemy away from the group
You should be doing this even if you don't have confuse. That isn't a consideration at all.

>>158567279
There isn't anything stopping me from kiting enemies 1 by 1 and shooting them with iron shot or arrows which actually do damage and reduce hp to 0, including high mr monsters or the magic immune. Confuse is trash because if you're using it you're probably light armored and INT invested and in comparison to every other spell school you could be relying on and using your limited mp bar on it's one of the worst.

>its fine that poison is wasted points past lair
>somehow its not fine for hexes

>>158567968
>You should be doing this even if you don't have confuse.

No, I mean if you're in such a comfy, easy mode situation that you can afford the luxury of kiting away a single foe at a time, a spell that requires many many castings especially when your luck isn't so great, isn't "busted."

>>158567390

Don't worry, I've also accounted 3 rune shitters for this. It is also useless in Depths against its actual threats.

Assuming lvl 20 hex and spellcasting 25 int

Golden Dragons (0%), Spriggan berserkers (11%), Spriggan air mages (3%), vampire knights/mage (37%), titan (0%), lich/alich (0%), electric golems (0%), crystal guardians (0%), orange brain (22%), stone giant (37%). I could go further but do you still need it? These things are always a threat

>>158568091
Parrow is the greatest spell of all times.

>>158568142
>sub 35 int
why are you even wasting your time with spells

>>158568091
Poison Arrow isn't remotely bad, dude. First win I ever had used Poison Arrow as my workhorse spell.

And I have lost track of all the tweaks and final results of the intoxication spell, but it at least USED to be pretty good. I think you need Clarity mutation these days? But in that situation, its actually good for taking out giants and such. Sort of like a confusion that is actually good for something.

>>158568091

That just means you're a newbie who still hasn't played the game

>>158568142
>stone giant

Nothing's more fun than spending 2+ rounds (just on average) to disable a ranged foe temporarily that can probably kill me in 2 hits.

>>158568006
I'm not saying its better than iron shot, I'm merely saying that its much better than you think. Its a goddamn level 3 spell that has utility all the way to zot.

>>158568091
Parrow is fine, but its super lame that most enemies are just poison immune or heavily resistant.

>>158568142
Give me a second, I'll bring up some success rates from my loremaster. Also, why are you trying to confuse high MR targets?

>>158568496
Stone giants are popcorn in depths......

>>158568219

The real question is why are you wasting your time on bloat when you could cast actual spells that damages enemies on cast with your high int chars?

>>158568219
>going int in full force and still can't kill OOF's
kek. If I were you I'd be defending hexes as a support magic to complement triple sword confustabbing, not as your main attack ability.

>>158568142
dude you forgot shrikes, juggernauts and spark wasps

idk how to fix poison magic
maybe when you reach a certain amount of spell power you inflict venom which is exactly the same but stronger and less monsters are resistant to it, but that sounds retarded as fuck

confuse is a fukcing lvl 3 spell
why do you even expect it to be good late

in DCSS is a blue skill or a white skill training faster?

>>158568718
It needs spells that aren't just "poison a dude".

But non-damage spells are problematic, so that will never happen.

>>158568718
One would go about fixing poison by giving it actual lvl 7-9 spells

>>158568525

>Also, why are you trying to confuse high MR targets?

I've listed some actual threats in Depths that you would always need to Hex (if only you can). Anyone with high MR is almost always a big ass threat regardless of what you're playing as (see liches, hell sentinels).

>>158568843
>literally called POISON
>not about poisoning people
Whats next, fire spells that slow enemies?

>>158568905
with 20 in hexes you can just use silence against Liches

Man this Vikhor's Sanctum instance is grrrreeat, I'm only level 5 but I have two level 11 kitsunes. I'm thinking I'll have them both be tri-elemental fire/ice/lightning types. Agi/cunning/magic, fat HP and mind resist, they're pretty sweet basic all around creatures.

>>158569009
Fire should obviously make you go faster.

>>158568905
If only hexes had some anti caster summon or a spell that fucked liches by dispelling their haste

>>158569009
What's next, ice spells that create undead? Earth spells that slow people? Air spells that keep skelton wizards from casting spells?

>>158568718
>>158568843
Poison school is fine though, if you gave it a level 9 poison storm with a 40% irresistible portion it'd be no different from fire magic and probably subject to future removal. Poison is already strong as heck on vulnerable targets while encouraging branching off to conjurations and being able to kill OOF's and aliches with parrow.

File: highscore.png (15KB, 584x213px) Image search: [Google]

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any tips for a beginning roguelike player? i've never completed any 'traditional' roguelike, but I have played a lot of them (crawl, ivan, etc.) and this is my highest score.
I read the quick start guide but should I read the entirety of the manual?

Acid form as a lvl 8 poison spell when
Turns you into a big fat TRJ wannabe

>>158569009

Silence has a bad drawback, it silences you too so if you're an Enchanter that mostly depends on spells to kill (which is most likely the case) you will get wrecked. It's not like you can ?tele also unless you have a /tele.

>>158569306
Get out while you still can. The road to ascension is long and difficult, and in the end, only autism awaits.

>>158569390
>losing a manly caster melee fight against an ancient lich
thats why you dont ignore weapon skills

>>158569306
Use your consumables

>>158569342
why not replace poison magic with acid magic?
you can adapt every poison spell to be related with acid, and also gives room for way more spells than 'poison a dude' and 'poison a lot of dudes'

>>158569651
Because part of the sourcecode is "no acid spells for players"

>>158569651
the oozemancer in ToMe 4 is one of the bright spots of a mostly unfun game

>>158569651
Last time I checked there were less than 5 enemies in the entire game that resist acid.

>>158569306
Use scrolls/pots/wands/other evocables
Check your situation, you have all the time in the world to make a decision and dont rush it, just take your time
Try examining monsters as much as you can which you arent familiar with to know their weaknesses and how hard they actually are or easy
Use wiki when needed or just ask the questions here, theres plenty of dcss players in here who are experienced and willing to help
Check op as well for a short guide about some stuff, dungeon - lair - rest of dungeon - orc - rune branches in lair - depths - whatever - zot - win
'Take it easy.' - Chei, 2000 bc
Seriously, just take it easy and dont rush your shit

>>158569481

No, an ancient lich is almost always never alone. If you kill it last, it will wreck you from afar like it always does. Lure and kill its buddies would be hard even with stealth 10 since you only need to get a single instance of shouting to get wrecked unless you luckily catch it within LOS as a Dithmeme/cBlink user.

Or you could skip this tedious waste of irl turncount and use actual spells instead or just triple sword triple tab every single one of them.

>>158569306
evoke feet
not from ugly things though those fucks are fast

>>158569892
Screw you chei you dim bastard trying to drag everyone down to your level! Got to go fast play fast hit fast run fast die fast restart fast win fast.

Wait does this hypothetical character use nothing but hexes?
Not even fucking blowguns and shortblades?

>lasty has been playing draconians in the last 2 weeks
>development already has a remove mottled draconians branch

>>158570310
Someone stop this madman. No one man should have all this power.

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>>158570310

>>158569306

Do you know how to level skills effectively? That's very important in Crawl, and the basics of it can be found on learndb.

One of the most important instincts to develop is the "can I take this on?" instinct. Experienced players can peek at their stats, spells, abilities, items, level, HP, etc, look at the monster(s) in front of them, and then make a solid calculated guess about if they can survive the fight. This cannot be taught. It has to be learned through making mistakes - not necessarily by dying, though. Running away on time works too.

>>158570421
http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/draconian-refocus
It's fine its not lasty that wrote the commits :^)

>>158570421

>man
>implying it's not a 2 year old crawlbabbby playing roguelikes

Are we seriously going to defend MOTTLED draconians of all things now

>>158570512
>(((Feinberg)))

>inb4 lasty removes chei because it's not a good god for 3-rune shitters

>>158570659
I fucking love mottled draconians.

>start a DrTm
>Fulsome Distillation instead of Beastly Appendage
>fists only until level two
>fighting a small snake
>it's almost dead
>it tries to run away
How
What
This game is blowing my mind over and over

>>158570781
But he is good for 3 runes
Fuck everyone that says free EV and slouch are bad earlygame

http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showpost.php?p=114252&postcount=28

>you will never be this autistic about item slots
Feels good m8s.

>>158570781

One shotting orb of fires is not a good god? What?

>>158570816
;_;

>>158570467
i really don't know how to level skills yet, i mostly balance the skills i use eg. <weapon>, dodging, etc. but leave the weapon skill for a bit higher %

question: should I always eat mutagenic meat? so far the meat has helped me except reduced my scroll reading time but that doesn't seem to be such a big deal (yet)

>>158569651
Why replace when you can just slot in acid as the high-end poison solution? Maybe a level 4 acid touch, level 8 transmutation acid form, level 9 acid spray, like a corroding glaciate or something. Give poison something for lategame that's better than "good".

>>158570816
>one-shotted by an ooze, because despite showing up on D:1 oozes are actually jellies

>>158570209
There aren't many topics that internet forums are worse at discussing than game design.

>>158570659
As someone that plays Dr's almost exclusively, the only forms I like are purple, white, red, and green. Some people say pale cuz 'muh los' but mephitic breath is a thousand times more useful. Red makes early game trivial. White covers the innate resistance. Everything else is just w/e. Mottled's had the genuine benefit of allowing you to reveal invis if you didn't have sInv though.

>>158570310
It's the "renaming random things is how you do flavour, r-right?" dev this time.

Not that it's any better.

Playing a monk in PCB. Some Chaos mushroom did some wibbly wobbly magic shit and switched my INT and WIS so now I have 9 WIS and like 18/80 INT as a monk and forgot all my prayers. Since WIS is in green and can't be restored should I just suicide?

>>158570872
>autism on the most autistic spreadsheet simulator
w-what

>>158570826
>free EV

What did he mean by this?

Ok, at 12 spellcasting/Hex with 27 INT (it was a spriggan after all)

Enemies with 1 pip of MR or less are at 65% confusion success. Stuff like:

Shock serpents
Ettins and Cyclops
Deep troll X
Ice/Swamp dragon
Orb spider (and most of spiders in general, at higher than 65)
Boggarts
Hell knights
Shock wasps
Anaconda (lesser snakes have an even higher chance of success)
Komodo dragon
ALL DERIVED UNDEAD
Blink frog (and lesser frogs have a higher success rate)
Leeches
Wasps + hornets
Ugly things (a little less than 65 since they have weird MR)
Most draconians
All drakes
Slime creatures
Tengu that aren't reavers
Moth of wrath
Death cob
Vault guy convoker/preserver/sentinel
Yaktuar/Centaur except yaktuar captain
Merfolk impaler
Manticore

Stuff with a pip+ 48% (and thus, a still respectable chance at autowinning the fight)
Tengu reaver
Wraith
Fire dragon
Hydra
Emperor scorpion
Entropy weaver
Vault guy warden
Yak Captain
Aligator snapping turtle
Stuff with 2 pips or more are bad targets, but still have 30%~ or so if they're right at 2 pips.

This is your stone/fire/ice giants and so on. Do other shit to them.

In essence, 1 pip or less enemies are essentially autokilled by 2~ casts of confusion. Enemies with 1.5~ are coin flips, but still easy prey. Enemies with less like Fire/Ice giants are still good targets at 30%, but you probably have better things to do. Keep in mind that scrolls of vulnerability are a thing, and make confuse ultra deadly for a little while, which is a neat bit of utility that is otherwise wasted.

>>158571205
When you have 30 strength, and 40 agility, you end up with retarded amounts of ev. That's why minotaurs of chei wielding long blades absolutely dumpster most things in melee.

Retaliation everytime you evade is going to be the next thing that gets nerfed hardcore despite being so new.

>>158561468
Haunt and Snuff Out share a cooldown. That may be the reason why.

>>158571384
Right, but not free is what I'm saying. It can still be a net positive exchange, I'm not saying it's bad, just that evoking feet is also a powerful ability.

>>158571280
Seems like Confuse is very good for a level 3 spell.

>>158571507
No one said haste is bad.

No one ever says haste is bad.

No one will ever say haste is bad.

But the constant
>half movespeed
shit people respond to Chei with is fucking retarded as if it instantly kills players. The boosts from stats are damn near broken and his invokes shit on most things after a cast or two.

>>158571674
and you can still walk away!
doubly so with your increased stealth!

>>158571632
I'm not saying that its a good spell for no reason anon. 12 Hexes is a reasonable investment, lets you pickup hex snakes/invis/silence/spectral weapon if you so choose, and invalidates the fuck out of half of a 3 rune game. ESPECIALLY spider. Its real good. And invis recently got buffed what with haste being gone, so there is that too.

is a pure summoning run viable?

>>158571979
You can't throw rocks through minions, so no.

>>158571979
no unless you want to be utterly underleveled

>>158571979
Its better to splash into summoning from another build.

>playing a mountain dwarf fighter
>actually doing pretty well, clearly killdudes are superior to squishy casters
>"You feel momentarily disoriented"
>forgot the whole level map
What even was that?

>>158572042
portal projectile

>>158571674
Look, I'm probably a step or two above an absolute scrubshit at crawl in terms of skill and maybe because of that I'm not seeing how the movespeed issue apparently isn't an issue. I've tried Chei a few times and playing carefully in all the ways I've learned before it still just seems very weak before you get the huge buffs going. The half speed does seem like it instantly kills characters though obviously a huge part of that is player skill and threat evaluation.

>>158572223
>pure summoning
>portal projectile
Choose one.

>>158571280
>spell that does no damage
>autokill
Stop shitposting you memer. A spriggan or comparable caster would generally have to gimp their melee and defenses in order to be able to cast spells, and confuse remains a godawful choice as your main offensive tool. Unless you're playing a race/God that allows you to hybrid easily, being a "hexes mage" remains retarded, and only really worth combining with a stealth/stabbing approach, which is still worse than melee, magic, and ranged characters by a good deal.

>>158572280
>pure summoning
>throwing ruks

>>158572236
>I've played chei a few times
Then you have no concept of how to play chei and should not be giving you opinion on him.

>>158572364
That was my point. Good job.

How much damage boost are cheistats

>>158569130
Isn't there a new transmutation spell like that? I haven't played anything past 0.17 much.

>>158572498
You wanna throw ruks like a stone giant? You want to gib an ancient lich as soon as you see it?

Chei's your bro.

>>158572412
I'm sorry for trying to hold a conversation for the education of myself and others, anon. However may I repay you for my insufferable sin?

>>158572679
You can start by taking it easy.

File: balancecrimee.png (6KB, 325x100px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 325x100px

>>158571739

Or I could just oneshot almost everything. Hmmm... walk away or oneshot, it really is a tough choice

>>158572042
Fedhas

>>158572318
>renders a monster unable to attack and gives you free stabs
>not essentially a free kill or get out of jail free card
>being a pure caster when using hexes
>not being able to melee even a little, or blast confused dudes, or summon things that can kill them for you, or just walking away
Yeah ok. Keep in mind that I'm quoting numbers from a very real, ACTUALLY gimpled character that won the game, who had confusion as their most cast spell. A spriggan with an actual build would have been far more potent, which speaks volumes about the paltry 12 hexes confusion. I'm not saying that it autowins you the game, but it does go a long way to getting you there. Most of his early game was confusion with low skill brand confusion stabs.

>>158573097

So whatever happened to the list of actual threats in Depths that I listed? Have you finished analyzing them yet? Can you confuse any of those? Those big line of names you listed are really irrelevant to what you really need to debuff.

>>158573097
>having to resort to hyperbole and flat out lying to make the case that hexes aren't shit
>still defending this retarded exaggeration even after getting called out on it
This is why I called you a shitposting memer. Lucy's banishment is an instant kill, Ely's healing is an instant kill, a 50% fail rate confusion that wears off after a few turns and requires you to get close in time and finish them off (while ignoring other enemies or assuming they aren't present) is far from being an instant kill.