/rlg/ - Roguelike General

FUCKING JEWS SHIT

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>>148595009
Woah anon.

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>>148595009
poz my jew ass

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First for chei. Remember to take it easy.

>>148595353
heh

Which roguelike developer has the worst political beliefs? I assume it's somebody involved in DDA.

>>148595538
full kevin

>>148595009
Gozag did nothing wrong.

>>148595538
Right on the nose.

>>148595538
>worst political beliefs
That's pretty subjective unless they believe in something comically evil like using puppy skulls for clothing.

>>148596093
or censorship

My depths didn't spawn with a portal to pandemonium. What do?

>>148596093
>like using puppy skulls for clothing

or removing mountain dwarves

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>>148596134
>Knowledge is unnecessary for productivity.

>>148596257
go clear tomb:3

Okay.

It's not okay.

I'm not okay.

>>148596093
Conspiracy nuts and people who adopt a view only so they can fit in with a clique are exceptions, because they are based on lies rather than real belief.

fuck you guys

*I'M* okay as fuck

>>148596340
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY57ErBkFFE

We must dissent.

Any new roguelike game on the horizon? Because it seems like this general never changes much on the supply of games.

>>148597284
>Conspiracy
Ya gotta define that a bit more solidly. Lumping every conspiracy together only makes the more sensible ones easier to silence.

>>148597505
nichest of the niche.

proper roguelikes are games of an age long gone, so its pretty rare to get devs interested in making them

>>148597505
Yes, my roguelike in 5 years

>>148597505
Vanilla bagel came out awhile ago. Its ok.

>>148598193
Ironically, it'll be refered to as "roguelite" and "indie dev garbage". This thread has a huge hate boner for new roguelikes.

>>148597505
New games are coming out all the time, but the most popular games get the most developer time, and thus the most improvements. In 10 years this thread will still be about DCSS half the time.

>>148597354
Alpha centauri roguelike, WHEN?

>>148598406
cant speak for the thread but what I hate are shit games

tacking on "roguelike elements" doesn't make a game better. fucking devs.

new roguelikes that are actually roguelikes are received fine though, what you said is total bullshit.

>>148598803
Vanilla bagel is a roguelike in every sense of the word, but the thread imploded when I played a bit and posted about it. Same with Dredmor back in the day. The second a new commercial roguelike comes out, its hailed as complete shit and not a roguelike. Even games that weren't monetized are now considered awful because they're on steam or whatever. Its dumb and I hate the random vitriol the newer stuff gets.

>>148599076
you are wrong.

bagel is hated cause of whoever it was that kept spamming it trying to be funny. also it costs nearly 10 bucks and has fuck all content.

dredmor is just awful, and to make the game semi playable you need the dlc. fuck that.

qud went commercial, and i cant remember seeing anyone complain about that, except the odd retard who doesnt know how to pirate.

hell, tome even managed to go semi commercial and no one bitches about that. despite the games flaws, the system darkgod uses works great.

im done now. i do get where your coming from i just dont really agree

>>148599076
the thread got super obsessed with the "everyone who says vanilla bagel is a shill" meme for some reason

>>148598791
>at least 14 different "races" from the various factions
>as many backgrounds as you could come up with
>gear can come directly from the game
>end goal of retrieving "progenitor/planetmind-merge macguffin" and leaving writes itself
Can anybody tell me why this is a bad idea? Because i'm seriously curious why SMAC/SMAX isn't a god tier setting for an RPG of any description.

>>148599490
Man, I wasn't even trying to be funny when I was playing it, nor was I spamming it. I just thought the situation was ridiculous and treated as such. How do you even know it has fuckall content? Have you played it?

>>148599717
It's not medieval fantasy, and all roguelikes have to be medieval fantasy.

>>148599724
if you were just talking about the game, you arent the guy i mean who was spamming it. you probs got caught in the crossfire though

someone kept posting the same exact picture with some stupid one liner like "Have you tried out Vanilla Bagel? Fresh new graphics!" or whatever.

obviously some dickhead pretending to shill to stir the thread up (it worked) besides, I refuse to believe the actual devs would behave like that

>>148599490
How is Dredmor awful? It's just a little easy if you metagame.
This is exactly what the guy meant I think. Dredmor gets hated for no reason, other than maybe trying to be funny.

>>148599901
*all roguelikes have to be tolkien fantasy
if there aren't elfs and dorfs it isn't a roguelike

>>148600000
nice numbers, but no seriously dredmor is awful. the balance is retarded, so many useless skills, items variety is basically nonexistant, the gameplay itself is barebones as hell

not to mention you cant walk diagonally

its not the worst game, or even the worst roguelike, but when your game is almost entirely carried by the cheesy humor and artstyle (both subjective things) you're gonna get some varied opinions

>>148600000
i can never get into dredmore, it's just so sloooow

>>148599901
PRIME and Sword of the Stars: The Pit aren't medieval fantasy though.

>>148600293
so they aren't roguelikes

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>>148600000
Checked.
>>148600374
But one is a nethack variant.

>>148600448
diablo 1 was inspired by nethack too

>>148600374
you're hilarious m8

>>148600502
>inspired by
and
>variant
are two different things you rascal you.

dota 2 is made in half life 2's source engine
but it isn't an fps

>>148600674
yes it is

>>148600761
a true fps has to be set in WW2 or later

dota has knights and gnomes and spooky ghosts, so it clearly has the wrong setting to be an fps

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.

the way is shut

it was built by the memes, and the memes keep it

>>148601123
Curse the memes, and their children too. And their children, forever true.

>ywn be a sickly edain
Why live for more than 35 years?

Man I just can't play Wizards rather than Conjurers.
Sure the base wizard book is nice and full of utility, but if you don't find a book with fireball or iskenderun mystic blast ASAP you just can't kill anything with your imps by the time you get to dungeon 8 and then it just becomes an impossible game of trying to stair dance and flee until you inevitably get caught.

>>148601509
>you will never be an 7-headed storm troll too stupid to figure out how to wear more than 1 hat

>>148601614
Conjure flame -> magic missile
For stronger opponents
Hallway -> Conjure flame -> meph

>>148601614
Wiz is a hybrid start.

>ywn be a kobold, confused about whether you are a lizard or a dog

>ywn be a sexy naga prostrating yourself before a snail-covered altar, waiting for the divine power of chei to enter you

>>148601614
>Killing stuff with your imps
Naga, you're supposed to spam the fuck out of mephitic cloud and stab stuff with 0 skill spears or literally ANY venom weapon you find. Trick stuff into walking into your flames and tab them. Stuff like that. You're imps are literally meatshields for your scooby doo chases.

>>148602069
>0 skill
is this necessary on races other than mummy

>>148602152
No, but I've literally cleared D1-15 without stopping lair with the 0 skill mummy. Anon is just being a puss.

>>148602375
i mean the 0 skill part
non-mummy races should have enough xp to spare that they can put some levels in polearms if they want to

>>148602518
You misunderstand, friend. I agree completely.

>>148596319
Fucking dpeg.

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That is some ridiculous damage. First time one shotting a greater mumy.

>>148603756
>thrash him like a brute
>bring him in closer
>slap him across the face
>followed up with squeezing him to death
Stop, you brute!

>>148603756
>40 AC
Damn, that is insane for a pode. How much do you have without statue form?

>>148603756
>40/50
>on an octopode

what the fuck

>>148604085
8 AC. I have a ring that gives +6 which really helped in the early game.

>>148604163
And 250 Hp in statue form. I wonder how much Dragon form would give him.

>>148603931
Didn't even think of it that way. Actually pretty funny.
>>148604163
Only problem is i don't have rCorr.
>>148604240
I'll get a screenshot if I survive tomb.

>>148602152
Very little is strictly necessary on races more powerful than mummy. But for mediocre players, a DEFE can have a great time comboing a branded spear with conjure flame at 0 skill.

And other guy's right: imps aren't fighters, they're butterflies.

>>148603756
>all those rings
are octopodes supposed to be the dragons of dcss? shit without rings but great with them?

>>148604438
I just like statue form and thought 8 rings with it would be fun.

>>148604438
they can't wear armor so they're kind of shit with rings too

unless you play as a transmuter so you can shapeshift your shitty octopus body into a statue or dragon

>>148601702
>Conjure flame -> magic missile -> run out of mana
ftfy

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>>148605181
>Hey orc, wanna smoke some meth

>>148605374
what the fuck happened to ugly americans anyways

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Still no rCorr

>>148605516
why the fuck is there an octopus in a uterus

>>148605501
I dunno man. I miss that show.

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>ftw you find an altar of a non-faith decaying God on D:1

>>148600000
Dredmor is definitely a roguelike but also boring. The limited, unchanging animations get stale very quickly, you basically see the same items every run, none of the upgrades really feel rewarding, the barely scaling damage formulas make progression feel unsatisfying, etc

>>148605516
Literally how can i get to pandemonium if no portals spawned in the depths?

>>148605730
Impossible.

>>148605603
Octopodes are boneless and can thus fit through just about anything that isn't airtight.

>>148605782
You're right. It was hidden.

>>148605932
So, theoretically, an octopus could shove itself into a vagina and/or asshole?

>>148606156
Not seen many JAVs, have you?

>>148606740
I only know about eels in ass

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>be my self
>playing nethack
>walk in to opulent throne room
>kill hobgblin
>decide to drink unidentified potion
>fall asleep
>get killed in my sleep

10/10 would kill myself again

>>148607125
Who are you quoting?

>>148607204
He stated that in the first line, moron.
He's obviously myself.

>>148607298
me too

>>148607298
>>148607656
Wait, are you he or myself?

>>148607656
You can't be myself since he is.

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The thing that I feel to be me, is me.

I am nothing more than myself.

>>148608570
I want to FVCK Shinji.

>>148608570
Don't worry, anon. Jiyva loves you.

>>>/wsg/1151069

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>>148608801
DELETE THIS

>>148608927
I'd plug his suit if you know what i mean.

>>148608878
did anyone else get a boner watching this?

>>148609114
fuck off kaworu

>>148609429
I don't mind either way.

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>>148609526

>>148609586
We have fun.

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>>148610269
Do any of us truly "have fun", anon?

>>148591852
>and the game only runs on PC-88
Thanks anon, I needed that laugh.

>>148611483
The furries who use cdda to roleplay do

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>>148607125
>kill troll
>eat corpse
>pass out from sickness halfway through meal
>troll regenerates and kills me

>>148613151
Lock em in a chest next time.

>>148611483
I get a kick out of playing roguelikes and laughing at dead-inside losers who can't enjoy things anymore myself.
Ha ha!

>>148613216
I was eating the troll.

>>148612601
What about the non-furries who use cdda to roleplay? Do they have fun?

>>148614217
don't exist
all cdda players are either furry roleplayers or realismfags jerking off over the huge variety of guns and the clothes washing mechanics
sometimes they're both

all the sane ones already left when they realized it wasn't any fun

>want to play some Incursion
>find bug with multiclassing
>rmtew's been dead for a year
Kill me.

>>148614429
it's me anon
I'm the non-furry roleplayer
live comfy or die, bitch

>>148615895

I sadface that incursion will never be one of the greatest DnD roguelikes.

>>148616495
It is the greatest D&D roguelike though, largely on account of being the only one.

Does it count if I win an android rune-knight?

>>148617468
yes

you can only scum the town so long before you actually need to leave to get better loot

especially the high-end consumables like !*healing* !destruction !genocide that you need for big J

>>148617640
>!destruction !genocide
wow brb killing self

>MfGl
>Lair:5
>rMut, rPois, rCorrosion, rF+, rC+, 15AC, 25EV
>finish lair
>splat in Orc:2

guess what killed me
otabbing too far into dem summoning orcs

>>148617640
>quaffing destruction and genocide

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Which character would be best suited for farming Ziggurats between:
>Ogre/Troll
Are the huge HP pools enough to justify the body slots loss?
>Deep Dwarf of Pakellas
No regenerating mana and health seems a huge issue
>Naga of Cheibriados spamming Slouch
Can a Naga do that spam or would it run out of Piety? Maybe the spam could begin only on really packed floors?
>Demonspawn with Nightstalker and Powered by Death
This would require a fuckton of luck though, so not gonna happen.
>Vine Stalker with cloak of fog
By the extra-late game it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.
Also, would a cloak of fog literally be like a Nightstalker on demand? It produces only 1 ring of smoke compared to the two by a scroll of fog, so i don't know if it's as effective as Nightstalker for covering LOS

>>148618745
>No regenerating mana and health seems a huge issue

how exactly do you plan on finding space to rest to full inside a zig anyways

but you probably want makhleb and not pakellas

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>>148614429
>realismfags jerking off over the huge variety of guns

Caught

>>148616261
>non-furry roleplayer
yeah right..

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Ok, what the fuck do i do. I'm a transmuter and a naga (half AC from armor), so this will rape my spellcasting, and i have 8 in UC.
Do i use it? if som what do i train then?

>>148621187
1,977888Q*f4Enter

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alright

>>148621187
Wear it until lair and pump UC, then get something more appropriate for your STR.

>>148621681
?

>>148618745
>Which character would be best suited for farming Ziggurats
Any character that can cast tornado or *storm.

It tends to go fastest using tornado with an air enhancer or two, and evoking disc of storms on the turns between tornado recasts. It also tends to go faster if you're using Makhleb or TSO.

>>148618745
DD of Makh with rElec and a disc of storms

unless that's been nerfed recently

>>148621187
So the smart answer is to leave it right there on the ground. Because it'll get you killed. You lose all your EV, gain like 7 AC, can't cast, can't run away because naga and no spider form, can't kill things because your encumbrance is so high so you can't cast spells to buff your UC... in no circumstances is that a good idea.

If you really really want it you could go chei and still have blade hands castable without a horrible amount of investment. Probably around 16-18 transmutations. But even if you go chei you're almost certainly gonna be better off wearing FDA and learning a ton of spells. Being able to cast cblink and freezing cloud is pretty nice if you're taking it easy.

But you could always try it out. Experimenting with things you think are terrible can have surprising results.

If i abandon Jyiva, do i keep the stats shuffled or do they revert back to normal?
Also, once penance is over and the royal jelly is killed, will all the slimes spawned die as well or do i have to clear all the dungeon from my own slimes? (and do they give exp?)

>>148596257
Have you checked for isolated areas with scrolls of mapping?

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First Octopode win. Transmuters are pretty fun with any race it feels like.

>>148624215
Yeah I eventually found it.

>>148599717
Because SMAC is about nationwide political ideology and individuals who aren't political elites have no ability to influence anything. Plus, the SMAC world is ultra-dangerous but without much variation. What I'd be more keen on is a SMAC game in the style of Battlezone, a base building resource gathering first person vehicle shooter.

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Where can I download ADOM r64? I search all over the net but I can't find anything above r59.

>>148624191
You keep the shuffled stats. I don't think he even shuffles them as punishment.

>>148599490
>im done now. i do get where your coming from i just dont really agree
Everything you just said is completely right, anon.
Next time just don't respond.

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>>148624586
Nowhere to be found since the latest public release (p60) is pretty much the same.

Except, you know. You gotta press a new key every time the message about how you're playing a free game and you should be GRATEFUL TO THE OVERLORD BISKUP
KNEEL MORTAL
GIVE ME POSTCARDS
but yeah free adom as long as you remember to prostrate in front of Biskup magnificent phallus and thank him by looking at how great he is every time you start the game without being able to skip.

>>148624982
>You gotta press a new key every time the message about how you're playing a free game
What the? You mean regularly during gameplay? That's fucking shitty.

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was there at least something interesting at the end of this

>>148624352
noyce

>>148625368
nah, I just fatfingered.

Whenever you start a new game in ADoM you get a screen which states that this is the free version and you should buy the premium version.
And to skip this screen, which again happened without fault every time you run the game, you have to press a different letter on your keyboard. Say you had to press a to skip it the first time. Then you die, close adom, then you decide to have another run and this time
THIS TIME
YOU GOTTA PRESS O
NEXT TIME
Z
NEXT TIME G

You understand how annoying that gets. It's literally "Buy my game or you'll get this every time forever".
I honestly just downloaded p59 just not to deal with that.

>>148625560
Oh, I can live with that. My characters usually survive long enough so I think it won't be THAT annoying.

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>>148625707
>he doesn't spam TrWz for ultra wins

>>148624982
>KNEEL MORTAL
>GIVE ME POSTCARDS

I wonder how different the reaction to ADOM having a paid release would be if Biskup had never included that postcard message.

>check mods for Qud to see what people came up with so far
>there's one called symbiotic organisms, sounds cool, let's check it out
>among other things it adds, "Koala Sloth (Adorable backpack. Would lactate if milk were a liquid :3)"

You mark my words goys, with time this game is gonna turn into CDDA, only worse/better/furfagier

>>148629246
the fursuit in cdda was ironic and actually using it is a death sentence

>>148625560
>THIS TIME YOU GOTTA PRESS O
>You understand how annoying that gets. It's literally "Buy my game or you'll get this every time forever".

Is it ADOM Release 60 (1.15.2) for Windows ?
Do you have screenshot of the screen ?
What key do you want to press instead, small a key, spacebar, or other ?

Maybe I'll try to crack it.

>>148628554
Probably not very different, biskup.

>>148630823
>Is it ADOM Release 60 (1.15.2) for Windows ?
it's the public release (p60) for every single OS.
>Do you have screenshot of the screen ?
gimme a sec, I'll download it for ubuntu and try to make sense of these linuxrunes.

>>148595009
whoa....damn
really makes u think huh...
gooosebumps....

so is there a transformation that allows mummies to drink potions?

>>148629651
the cdda fursuit is warm as fuck and covers your entire body

it's actually super useful

Has anyone ever encountered THE THING or Amigama Horror in Cataclysm DDA?

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>>148630823
Here!

>>148634127
>Disable permadeath

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It adds a lot of crap you wouldn't care about and is literally not a rougelik, which means you don't even WANT this kinda stuff.

>>148634212
>achievements

>>148633719
they're Mine finales

I've encountered Amigara Horrors. They're not that difficult

>>148633719
yes to both. They're just pushovers.

>>148634308
I kinda want more spoopy shit to lurk around the snowy cabin I've built. Something to poke it's head out of the woods and make thump noises other than zombified horrors. I guess there's mi-gos with their luring, something a bit less comical though.

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>>148634267
>deluxe version
>it's just easymode options

>>148634267
Star sign selection would be useful, though.
Startscumming for a non-shitty sign is both important and tedious in the most anti-fun way possible.

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>>148634657
>>148634212


>>148634674
Yeah, I agree. I remember wasting hours fucking trying to get wizards of cup or book and even then I had low learning so I just had to do it all over again.

>>148634657
Right? It should be fucking hardmode options, not easymode.
Goddamn Biskup pandering to babbies.

>>148634843
MLP-watching babbies at that.

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>>148635087
what do you m-

oh.

Oh.

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what kind of party did I stumble onto

>>148635715
A catholic mass.

>>148635715
Scotland.

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Sorry to ask again, but how do i into Ogre Mage early game?

>>148636037
ruks

>>148636037
Summon Broglodyte.

>>148636209
>I cast rock

>>148636209
But i don't start with ruks as an Ogre Mage, do i train throwing until i find some?

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>>148636518

>>148636587
start as an ogre hunter, find magic books later, follow the path of the ruk until you do

So apparently something called Javelin 1.6 just got released.
https://javelinrl.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/javelin-1-6/

>>148636661
Am i fucked if those 4 ruks break at the beginning?

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>>148634127
I removed the nag screen by causing the function to return immediately.
I won't upload the patched binary, because most of you will probably suspect it as malware, so I'll tell you how to patch it.

1. Download Windows ASCII version of ADOM.
http://www.ancardia.com/download/adom_windows_r60_pub.zip

2. With a hex editor, open adom.exe, press Ctrl+G and go to offset 13B0. Change 55 to C3.
For your information :
55 is PUSH EBP (start of function)
C3 is RETN (end of function)
I already checked, call 401FB0 is only called once at 402F71 so this function is never called anywhere else after the new game.

3. Save the file as adom1.exe

I already tested this on my computer.
That's it, no

Press 'D'
Press 'X'
Press 'D'

to continue now on the steam ads page.
The ads screen (Adom @ Steam) is simply skipped.

You still see "Press SPACE to continue" on other pages.

>>148636739
basically yes, if the ruks abandon you and you can't find more all hope is lost

>>148636756
I'll save this post, thank you kind anon

If you want I can let you in a super secret on how to remove the blue tint from neo-qud

>>148636756
THIS IS ILLEGAL

>>148636682
Not gonna lie, looks pretty terrible.

>>148636756
don't do this it creates mustard gas

>>148636682
It could be good, but I don't feel like trying it.

How the hell do I skill an OgHu? Do I just immediately start training M&F?

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>>148636756

>long blades can now riposte
>literally can't use rapiers to riposte naturally
what the fuck?

>>148637342
train throwing

throw ruks

win game

>>148637652
but my ruks break

>>148636867
>patching a binary is illegal
Shit anon, I don't know what kind of country you live in, but if that kind of thing is against the law there maybe you owe it to your fellow citizens to engage in some civil disobediance

>>148638149
I live in Turkey
way ahead of you, bruv

>>148638308
oh, wow, keep your head down anon

>>148637342
>Do I just immediately start training M&F?
Basically. Save ruks for big things, because as you said they love to break, until you get a god rolling that will overload you with them.

god damn how do i kill Mara? all my shit's drained to like half its original level now too, how fucked am I?

>>148641336
walk away?

don't fight mara

>>148637457
Logic and common sense are bloat.

>>148641336
Have you killed an unrand pan lord? Then you can kill Mara.

>>148641406
genius
>>148642525
no, never gotten that far, he spawned on swamp:3. i stupidly read a scroll of silence thinking it'd stop him from casting the illusion spells but it didn't and expired just in time for me to tele out

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Make it stop.

>>148641185
So basically just Oka, right?

It's been a while since I tried a combo with ammo

>>148642936
Trog gives ammo gifts as well. If you're wiling to not be as much of a ruk thrower for longer you can also just wait it out til when ruks become stupidly common on their own. Might be worth considering what with the level of throwing you need to get them <1.0 delay anyway.

>>148642867
Game design 101: tedium is never a good method to balance anything

>>148643652
Except it isn't tedium in this case. Happy hallucinations will block you until you go insane. It's like being paralyzed.

>>148614429
>all the sane ones already left when they realized it wasn't any fun
This, actually. I got into cataclysm before it was even cataclysm:DDA. It was a fun ride but they probably reached a point where they should have stopped adding new shit. The game, like any with no end, gets really repetitive and empty once you've seen everything. The complexity of some of the features are just annoying. The monster variety is my biggest gripe. It starts to feel silly with so many different types of creatures.

Also the forum moderators are retarded and obnoxious and have some insane political beliefs that they force on everyone

>>148644423
>he still hasn't learned that KA101 left

>>148644423
So, it's bad once you've seen everything, and it's bad because there's so much content that it takes a long time to see everything.

>>148644884
really, it's just bad

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god damn these are some sexy gloves

>>148644884
Oh nah, I may have been a bit harsh in tone. It's a great game and I'm glad it exists, it's a dream come true. But after a while I just sort of lost interest. Probably because I discovered it so early. I learned of most new features right as they get added instead of all at once.

>>148644423
>bad because it's repetitive and empty
>bad because it's complex and has too much variety
This is your brain on DCSS. Don't let it happen to you.

>>148645073
Continuous development is a great thing when it goes fast.

>>148645216
these complaints don't actually conflict

having 20 slightly different assault rifles or 200 no-gameplay-value only-useful-for-roleplay clothing items to choose from does not make the game any more fun or less repetitive

>The game, like any with no end, gets really repetitive and empty once you've seen everything.
Applies to any game, really.

For me the disappointing thing about DDA that it has a lot of content, but most of it isn't worth using because there's better and easier to obtain alternatives (a lot of the recipes and clothes) or there's no real reason to use it besides messing around (construction is the big one here, fishing and the tailoring padding stuff too), and that they, like DCSS, suffer from the devs having no plan for where they are going and working only on their own projects.

>>148614429
But anon, I'm an /egg/tard playing CDDA only for vehicle builder.

>>148646419
For people who want to roleplay, things that are useful for roleplay absolutely make the game more fun. There's no other choice, either. It's a sandbox roguelike, so the core gameplay is just maintaining homeostasis. If you aren't going raiding looking for just the right fursuit, you don't have anything to do.

>>148647215
>so the core gameplay is just maintaining homeostasis
but the problem is that once you get going this is *way too easy*

maybe you get a solar car with an RV kitchen or something and then all you need is water and food to live forever
but you can just get weeks worth of water at a time from a river or pool and you can get hoard more ant meat or other preserved shit than you'll ever need

>>148647453
That's an ongoing problem in the sandbox roguelike subgenre. You can see this in URW, or even the fortress mode in Dwarf Fortress. If the game is too hard, then starting characters don't have a chance. Once you get traction and solve your character's problems, of course it will be way too easy.

Early gameplay of scrounging for basic resources and trying to not die is always going to transition into a 'cozy', boring setup. Nobody has figured out a way to prevent this.

>>148647847
>Nobody has figured out a way to prevent this.

Just make the game get dynamically harder over time.

>>148647938
And then if you have any setback whatsoever then you'll be in a situation where you have no possibility of overcoming the later challenges, just like FTL.

>>148647938
>Just
>Just make it fun and balanced
>Just find a good way to combine multiplayer with roguelikes

>>148648628
just remove the bugs, they're probably only like 1 line of code each

>>148648823
Sometimes just 1 symbol, like with the diagonal vehicle phasing.

>>148647453
Pretty sure the new "vitamins" system is there to make sure you have to eat not only "healthy" but also diverse food. Unless ants just happen to give all the right stuff at once.

>>148649476
I wouldn't be surprised if they do, eggs have the rare calcium.

Can't you just eat a multivitamin, though? I haven't played since the vitamin stuff was added.

>>148649841
Multivitamins are perfect, but last I checked you can't make them.

>>148648628
>Just find a good way to combine multiplayer with roguelikes
Turn-based grid-based co-op works great. Exploration and discovery can be worked around. Main issue would be permadeath. Full immediate permadeath of each player is not fun, but party members resurrecting each other is not a roguelike.

>>148650019
Did they make them more rare? You used to end up with hundreds of vitamins.

>>148650073
roguelikes are singleplayer by definition anyhow

so who cares about resurrecting each other at that point

>>148650073
>Turn-based grid-based co-op works great.
You mean long, multi-move turn one. And those are not roguelike.
Unless you mean the short, 1-3 action roguelike turns, in which case you're retarded if you think they work good in multiplayer.

>>148650212
Nah, as someone who started playing CDDA after the introduction of vitamins, I have never run out of multivitamins.

>>148650212
i mean it's realistic, nobody keeps around a pill bottle with only 2 pills in it

if they were fully committed to their realism fetish over gameplay quality they would do the same thing with antibiotics -- why the fuck does a pill bottle only hold 2 doses?

>>148650073
There are plenty of workarounds for permadeath. If it's fun and makes sense conceptually, there's no reason to avoid them just to adhere to some "pure roguelike" ideology.

The main issue is that there are thousands of turns in even a small roguelike game, and they are highly variable in how significant they are and how much time it takes the player to decide. If player 1 is dicking around with his inventory while player 2 just wants to run down an empty hallway, the game grinds to a halt.

>>148644058
>Happy hallucinations will block you until you go insane
sounds like my little pony alright

>>148607125
>be me
>playing nethack
>walk into Vault teleporter
>collect all gold
>turns out the only ?tele I had was burned by pyrolisk earlier
>no means of escape
>guard appears
>it's some scrawny hobbit
>he asks my name
>I tell him to fuck off
>he rekts me in three turns

That was the result of some really bad choices.

>>148649471
Z CAN'T MELT STEEL ""

>>148651145
If you drop your gold he escorts you out.

>>148651143
If you become crazy enough then robot unicorns start attacking you.

>>148650073
>party members resurrecting each other is not a roguelike

i don't agree with this part

party resurrecting each other CAN be a roguelike, as long as there's still a significant chance of a permanent gameover and losing all progress

in the same way, a game with the POSSIBILITY to permadie and lose all progress and go back to the start etc but no actual significant risk of it happening is not very roguelikey IMO

Player 1 is a standard roguelike dungeon crawler with permadeath. Other players are his summoned monsters. Problem solved.

Each PC permanently dies when killed, but the player can move on to another character in the adventuring guild on the surface. The game only ends if the entire party is wiped. Problem solved.

Party member permadie, but resurrection magic is possible for some healing-oriented specialists, assuming the target isn't gibbed. Problem solved.

>>148650858
1) use single screen maps (Brogue, DoomRL)
2) minimize dicking around (most obvious solution is to add modality so players can only dick around with skills/inventory/crafting in safe area between runs)
3) unless you only played multiplayer with pubshit assholes, important decisions are made by a group anyway
4) let players plan their movement path a few turns ahead so unless there's something "new" in los they don't have to wait for each other for every tile
Actually, I've been considering making co-op roguelike inspired by Payday game, but I'm sick of coding shit at my current shit job.

>>148652067
Target doesn't instantly die depending on injuries and can be healed and picked up by his allies.

>>148652115
Also, make the hallways shorter. I never figured out why roguelike developers are all so obsessed with these giant empty hallways that necessitate autoexplore or run commands.

>>148652115
Good ideas, but
>Actually, I've been considering making co-op roguelike inspired by Payday game

Not a roguelike. It has to be based on D&D or Tolkien.

>>148652067
>Each PC permanently dies when killed, but the player can move on to another character in the adventuring guild on the surface. The game only ends if the entire party is wiped.

i don't like this unless there's no way to re-populate the guild

having strictly limited lives like e.g. tome is fine IMO but having mechanics like "you can grind for money and hire more" makes it very unlikely to actually gameover

the whole "i fucked up, time to start a new game that keeps nothing but my own personal growth as a player" is the corest of core roguelike things

>>148652564
I want to kill this dragon and wear its skin! Wear its skin!

>>148652662
>It has to be based on D&D or Tolkien.
Go away you.

>>148652719
Kobolds are dogs.

>>148652751
Are you saying that you want to be completely inside her
Anon that's lewd.

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>>148652719
wrong species

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>>148652907
>>148652849

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But kobolds are reptiles.

>>148652724
You can grind for money and items forever in Angband and other infinite dungeon roguelikes. All roguelike games have various levels of "I fucked up", with varying degrees of being set back. If you have multiple characters in your group, the death of only a few of them shouldn't necessarily be an irreversible setback.

That's because you have account for it being a group-oriented game. If you want individualist gameplay, don't try to make a multiplayer game in the first place.

>>148653286
That's a halfling in chainmail.

>>148653360
>not recognizing meme mail when you see it

>>148653286
>implying dandd created kobolds

>>148653309
grindan for shit forever is ok but it shouldn't be possible to grind for extra lives in your "adventurer's guild"

having some party members able to resurrect others is ok AS LONG AS there's still a major risk of a TPK e.g. when the party has to group up to fight a unique/boss

if the cleric can just carry a stack of *band-style scrolls of "literally never die unless fear/blind/confused" and then head back to town to magic back his friends it isn't very roguelikey, but if e.g. you have to kill the boss with your remaining party in order to be able to rez the ded dudes then it's probably ok

>>148653815
Or you can just treat the entire party as one character and only have wipes respect permadeath.

>>148653815
OK, then in your game design when one PC dies that player just has to sit around doing nothing while the rest of the group continues playing the game normally. That's barely acceptable in 5 minute games in CounterStrike, and in a roguelike game it will obviously be unfun and drive away players. But hey, since being 'roguelikey' is more important than making a fun game that people actually want to play, go ahead.

>>148653989
So, like Grimrock without a save system?

>>148654130
It's fine to make a multiplayer game which doesn't respect permadeath. It's just not a roguelike.

>>148654302
It's fine to make a multiplayer game. It's just not a roguelike.

>>148654130
making a game where that isn't the case is fine

calling that game a roguelike is not fine

>>148653989
the problem is that permadeath has to be a significant threat
if when the rogue dies the warrior can just evoke his feet out of the dungeon and survive then there isn't much risk of a wipe

>>148654302
Why does it matter to you whether or not a game technically conforms to your personal idea of what is and isn't a roguelike?

>>148654302
Except if you're making the game balanced around mutliplayer, having the permadeath be centered around the individual rather than the party is stupid.

Why not just have the individual "go down" depending on the injuries they've sustained and then take skill/stat penalties until they get proper healing.

>>148654443
What the hell are you even talking about?
>>148654532
Or you could just not try to make a multiplayer roguelike and instead just make a multiplayer rpg.

You don't have to just force roguelikeness onto things, or force other things into roguelikes. RLs are fine at what they do.

Hey motherfuckers I need the forever longing for Dick image pls

>>148654532
he didn't say that the permadeath had to be focused around the individual

just that it had to exist

personally i'm fine with individual players having non-game-ending deaths, as long as the risk of a party wipe is big enough
the other problem is that in a lot of roguelikes the player has to actually fuck up to die, and the risk of having all 4 (or whatever number) party members fuck up at the same time before anyone can "help up" their friend is kinda low

>>148654130
Competitive team arena != pve co-op missions. I've mentioned Payday before and I'll mention it again. There dead players have to wait for short windows between police assault waves (5-20 minutes each and sometimes infinite until some extra conditions fulfilled by active players) and also to be resurrected players have to be traded for hostages (civilians are finite per map and require finite cable ties to become hostages, police prioritizes hostage rescue, cops can be made into hostages but it requires specific character skill and some degree of player skill to complete). Don't act dumb and you won't have to wait for 20 minutes doing nothing.
See also: tomenet.

>>148654424
>if when the rogue dies the warrior can just evoke his feet out of the dungeon and survive then there isn't much risk of a wipe
Still, technically has permadeath. And unlike heavy rez restrictions, would actually be workable into a sane game.

If each character had own permadeath condition, death of one player would cause the game to instantly switch into grind mode until that player leveled back up.

If rezing required defeating the boss, this would result in being locked out of high level areas if you lose a character and don't manage to finish the boss off.

>>148655223
>Don't act dumb
nice meme!

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Dang. Worth it?

>>148655408
Wait, does the *Drain thing even do anything to Ghouls?

I don't get it.
Just make a multiplayer dungeon crawler.
It doesn't have to be a roguelike.
There is nothing wrong with a game not being a roguelike unless it pretends to be one for sales- and then it's just an annoyance.

>>148655569
yes
what it does to ghouls is that it drains them

>>148655569
it's only when you take it off anyway

>>148655408
Of course.
>>148655569
Yes.

>>148655408
Absolutely. Never take that off.

>>148655223
The choices are:
1. The player gets a new character in a short amount of time.
2. The player's character gets revived in a short amount of time.
3. The player sits around doing nothing and wonders why he's looking at a roguelike-shaped screensaver that he has no input on.

Solutions to these problems are easy, but solutions that don't trigger your roguelike purity obsession are a little harder.

>>148656160
the other options are to make it way harder for the teammates to survive without the ded guy

make a game with a fixed number of party members and give each a unique, important role, so when one dies the others will quickly splat too

>>148655647
Oh, I can never remember which ones are when you take them off and which ones are when you take damage.

>>148656160
This is like if you said "I want to make an album of solo violin. However, I want to have 4 players, and they will play guitar, bass, drums, and cello. What? How dare you say this isn't a solo violin album? Your solo violin purity obsession is ridiculous!"

You're the one being a nutter here, lad. Just make your rock album.

>>148656015
the resists are good but if it didn't have *drain the EV-3 would make me not really want to wear it most of the time, just swapping it in for shit you can't otherwise resist

>>148656160
4. If anyone dies, the game ends.

Not sure that would be any fun either, though.

>>148656160
as was already mentioned

it's fine to make a multiplayer game that isn't a roguelike -- just don't call it a roguelike

but at that point why are you posting about it on rlg

>>148655160
>tentacle wizard hat man gives good advice in first panel before degenerating into shitposting as the crowd does
deep

>>148656804
He's literally spewing memes the entire time anon, the first such meme just happens to be relevant to the discourse at hand.

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>>148656804
Wizards have no sense of right or wrong.

>>148656160
4. The party is "soulbound" or something and shares a global health pool which causes them all to die at once when it's depleted

>>148656160
6. Player becomes a ghost and can do things while waiting for rez.

>>148656985
everyone would just try to stay as safe as possible then

nobody would actually want to fight

>>148657113
So like every other roguelike then?

>>148656959
>wizard with abs
i love these

>you fall through a shaft for 3 floors!
why is this allowed?

>>148657113
I don't see how that follows. Having a single health pool and permadeath doesn't make you always avoid combat in any other roguelike.

>>148657372
RNG bullshit is fun!

>>148656932
Clear D isn't a meme

>>148656804
/rlg/: where you get good advice and bad advice, but the only way to distinguish between the two is if you already know the right answer.

>>148659943
>but the only way to distinguish between the two is if you already know the right answer
Its like a children's movie
>The power was inside of you all along.

Well now I know why nobody talks about Guild here. It's not a roguelike at all, because of some technicality that's barely relevant to the gameplay.

>>148660339
>Guild
Literally what?

>148660618
It's a roguelite-like that has a page on RogueBasin for some reason.

>>148657524
probably from back before the last 12 levels of D were removed

>>148660339
>not having permadeath is some technicality barely relevant to the gameplay

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control undead OP

>>148661553
>permadeath must be defined strictly in terms of individual characters rather than the party, regardless of the game's context

>>148661785
party permadeath has to be an actual risk

if you can just run the survivors back to town and recruit more party members at the tavern
(which you CAN)
then there's no real risk of gameover -- you're only punished with a shitload of grinding when a high-level character dies

so it's technically possible to permadie but the risk is too low and easily mitigated. it might fulfil the literal words of the definition but it violates the spirit

>>148662165
>violates the spirit

i wanna fuck a ghost

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>>148662343

fuck a demon instead

what makes a roguelike isn't the permadeath or procedurally generated or tile based/turn based

What makes a roguelike is the graphics

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>>148662496
>gothmog.jpg

how many times do we have to go over this

>>148663034
what makes a roguelike is the capacity for elitism

how to win as Demonspawn? These things have 0 aptitudes and I don't want to savescum Nightstalker (3) and Powered by Death (3) to survive encounters

>>148662165
You understand that the risk of various activities can be determined by the game developer, right? You can make it so that when one character dies the party is very likely to get wiped immediately after. You can make it so that when you recruit more characters they are at the same level as your survivors, thus meaning there's no grinding involved.

This isn't complicated design work, and yet you're pretending that they are insurmountable problems that make the entire attempt at a multiplayer roguelike hopeless.

>>148663234
at least 1 more

>>148662496
It's "Durin's Babe," you asshat!

>>148663234
gothmog is the king of balrogs

>>148663385
if people can survive encounters as a fucking mumo then your ds-mut-having armor-wearing weapon-using better-apt-having ass can do it as a demonspawn

>>148663385
Pick a background and god that help you survive to mid-lair, where the game basically ends and apts don't matter.

It's easy to get practice at doing the early game, so you have no excuse for being bad at it.

>>148663385
?
whats hard about demonspawns?

>>148662165
Except that's within the game design of the dungeon and how much party customization you allow rather than the grand strokes of the game design. Setting up encounters to be dangerous and punishing of mistakes is entirely possible.

Stone Soup isn't a roguelike game, because you can almost always run or teleport away from enemies, which means that there's essentially no permadeath.

>>148665457
This argument isn't a roguelike, because we can keep having it forever and ever which means that there's essentially no permadeath.

>>148665827
Your mother isn't a roguelike, because I can keep having her forever and ever which means that there's essentially no spermadeath.

>accusing others of elitism instead of just accepting that your game idea isn't quite a roguelike
Not being a roguelike doesn't make things automatically bad, you know.

>>148666176
Nice try, but I'm not him.

Games that don't allow you to play them with ascii graphics are not roguelikes

>>148618745
Why would they make stairs like that?

>>148666176
What's the part that makes it un-roguelike? Multiplayer itself, or some trivial-to-avoid design fault that someone would only assume if he wanted to cast the idea in the worst possible light?

>>148666371
a lower grade on the slopes means it's far easier to climb, which is especially important if you're transporting materials

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>>148663253

>believing that words have definitions is elitism

wew

>>148666509
With that low of grade, a ramp seems more sensible.

>>148666526
take it easy

it was a joke

>>148666680
a ramp would have far less traction than you would have on steps

>>148655160
>I cast Darkbolt
>five months and counting

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>the door creaks loudly

>>148667473
>Only a shrike saw you
360 and walk away

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>>148667473
>tfw the last time I opened a vault like that, I was following QAZLOUD with 27 invocations
>tfw disaster area wiped out every single dude

>>148667473
Haven't shrikes been nerfed? They haven't troubled me in trunk.

>>148667424
FOREVERIALLY