Eve Online General /eog/

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>Rifter

Threadly reminder that my gameplay style is better than your gameplay style, you fucking pleb.

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For Jamyl!

Does this patch do anything for those of us living the space trucking hauler life? Apart from all the new stations of course

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>his empress is a slut

Caitz > Jamyl

Get the fuck out of here heretic worshipers.

I want Reyni to sit on my face.

>tfw no Timm3h asmr video

share your raspy voice with us

Who won the plex raffle?

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ironically literally nigger

>>140363393
what did you mean by this?

>>140363508
He is an edgy non-pubbie goon nao.

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>>140363508

>Coonswarm

>>140363910
UWBFTP

>miss spook will never peg you with her jackdaw

>>140364090
what did you mean by this?

>>140365573
who's dj jazzy jeff?

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>>140360213
SHES FUCKING DEAD GET OVER IT RETARD STUPID BAKA GAIJIN

>>140368047
no

>>140360275
They're pushing markets out of jita by slowly raising taxes. They've already stated that their goal is basically to completely remove NPC stations at some point. We can only hope that this means there won't be a universal trade hub and that pulling market data dies.

If we can live in an EVE without market data and many trade hubs then trading will be a glorious active passtime.

>>140368259
why would they do this

it would just enable big alliances to print money even more

>>140368259
This is going to lead up to player-made Stargates pointing to new high sec regions that won't have any stations at all.

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>>140368047
The jovians will resurrect her. One must have faith.

>>140368409
Because they want to put every aspect of EVE into the players hands for more interesting gameplay and narrative?

Ideally we should reach a point where there is player tradehubs that have tax rates, that go up and down, and traders selling stock need to decide when the tax is high enough that they want to move to a different hub.

>>140368471
If you leave Jita and other NPC stations, the trade hubs will remain there. Prices will adjust to the new taxes, and nothing will change. No one will willing trade any amount of reasonable stock in a player trade hub when they could use an already established NPC trade hub.

What corp do I join to zzz together with bros?

>>140368827
some wormhole corp.

I hear None-In is a good one to join

In player owned hubs can you seize stock like you can by removing access for a player from like a pos or a station in null?

Imagine the delicious scandal that could happen if in New Jita the owner just removed access to everyone and seized everyone's stock.

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>>140368827
Join all-out and haze orcas

https://zkillboard.com/kill/53612415/

>>140369562
Why didn't All-Out doomsday the Orca?

>>140369271
Yes. Then it has to be destroyed to get your stuff back.

>>140369271
You can retrieve it should that occur but you'll have to wait 5 (?) days.

Besides, why would anyone piss off their customers? The tax income from a decently sized trade citadel is HUGE.

>>140369812
>trade hub is owned by their corp
>seize everything
>heist it
>leave corp

Idk people don't always make the decisions with the best long term benefit. The point is that player owned stations gives a layer of human folly that doesn't exist in NPC space.

>>140370131
You can't actually seize items from the market (unless you mean the corp hangars, but that's no different from corp theft right now anyways)

The only thing you can do is deny them access so they can't retrieve their items, in which case they can teleport their stuff to an NPC station after 5 days.

>>140370405
Oh, nevermind then I thought you might be able to just actually take all their shit and sell it.

>>140370773
>CCP
>allowing fun
not likely

>>140370958
that's not fun, just a retarded idea.

>>140371026
You know what else is retarded. Losing your ship when you die.

how does the test server work? you're given infinite sp and infinite isk so you can test/try anything you want?

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>>140371198

>>140371198
yes
Also the whole concept of SP is retarded

>>140371026
>dynamic of trusting a station owner with your goods.

Any mechanic that involves a trust relationship between players in EVE is a good mechanic. Its like Banks in real life, they're supposed to basically just be NPCs that hold your money for you, (while lending out an acceptable amount to make money with the return on interest in your bank account), but they actually collapse all the time and your money ends up just being gone.

>>140371924
It copies your character at some point and trains as normal. Just about everything is seeded at 100isk, but you don't get infinite SP.

You can buy skill injectors though if your character was copied with a lot of money. They occasionally have test events that grant like 2m SP too.

>>140372213
lame
even in the test servers old niggers have the advantage

>>140372301
fuck off dror

>>140372301
Stop being a retard.

I thought no sp fag was dead. If he hates sp so much why has he still been in the general/ playing for more than a year?

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EVE would be so neat as a not-spaceship game. Artillery, autocannons, VTOL..

>you can literally buy SP
>people still defend it like it isn't an artificial barrier

>>140368259
>the only reason there are so few tradehubs is because SP limits market/industrial productivity
Bandaids, AIR?

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>>140373279
>you can play the game and earn isk
>the isk can be exchanged for skillpoints

>>140373279
No one is defending the fact that it isn't an artificial barrier. Its an RPG, rpgs are built on artificial barriers, that's entirely what any leveling mechanic is and its why we are playing the game. Go play a different game if you don't want an artificial barrier, most people like it however.

>>140373279
>>140373361
What's the criticism? Artificial barrier that causes sub churn?

>>140373531
>appeal to tradition
>>>/trash/

>>140373531
why do you think of it as barriers, rather than 'if you do x you get to do y'

also why do you think rpgs are about levelling up

>>140373673
>also why do you think rpgs are about levelling up

Because human beings like consistency. The game world doesn't feel as real if there isn't a sense of progression. Learning a craft in real life takes years of effort, obviously no one want exactly the same type of commitment for a game, but it feels like there should be a consistent time -> skill investment in a game. If its a role playing game than that means that the player accepts a difference between his skill as a player and the skills of his characters. So no matter how long the player has been playing the game, his characters skill at an activity should maintain the same curve as any other character in the game world in order to maintain consistency. In EVE it has the added benefit of insuring that players specialize their professions so players are not constantly competing with everyone in EVE at their chosen profession.

>Alliances can't just rapidly change their doctrines because they need pilots that can fly the shit en mass.

>Trading, Exploration, Industrialists, Miners only compete with people that have those skills trained.
This is good because if the barriers didn't exist there would be no barrier between people always having players capping out on industry and research jobs, market orders ect. Industry for example now is literally nothing but "artificial barriers" but they exist to make sure random fags don't just buy a blueprint and start competing in the market on an arbitrary whim. They need to wait a month or two before making an advanced product.

dror how's it going, what are you up to nowadays

I hope you aren't too unhappy

>>140374437
I'd like to keep silent about this, but everything in this post is conjecture.

Literally 0/10.

>>140374523
I didn't start this, and I didn't plan on replying to it. It seems like the conversation could use some help though. If I had to guess, it's samefagging, as well.

>samefagging

>>140374748
>reasons to play a game are opinions

No shit retard. I'm saying you don't want to play an RPG, but EVE is an RPG, so tough shit.

>>140374837
>as if anybody in EVE except the super elite give a shit about player retention and how SP affects the game

>>140374930
It's not opinions. Literally saying that makes your "opinion" worthy of disregard, and that's because even CCP has checked out scientific bases for game design. We're like 99% biologically the same.. so git gud.

>>140374930
>my definition of RPG is what the whole genre should be
This is how that whole post reads.

It's post-rationalization.

>>140375067
Why do RPG's even exist then if everyone hates artificial barriers?

DON'T REPLY TO DROR

>>140375239
M8, fuck that off. It's just an entertaining conversation. These shitty non-replies should be reported and deleted.

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>>140375239
Sorry I'll stop. I always end up getting baited by no-sp fag.

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>replying to posts

>>140375220
Most RPGs are single player games, and most RPGs have more interesting mechanics than F1 monkeying, not to say that EVE doesn't.

All of that is to keep the gameplay interesting and unique for that character, but that's also because most games aren't fucking sandbox MMOs with resources, refining, production, invention, and combat.

>but everybody would do everything
No they wouldn't.

Post lewd spaceships

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>>140375561
>You will never fuck a celestis

>Will Smith avatarfagging
>animal avatarfagging
baka desu

>>140375531
Also, to be honest, hypothetically if everything was a result of omni-niching, the market would stabilize. More minerals is lower prices and reward for mining. Cheaper ships for a class helps sales, but after they're gone, the price could rise again.

>>140368259
>They're pushing markets out of jita by slowly raising taxes.

From patch notes:
>Reprocessing tax has been changed from a material tax to an ISK tax

Which means you pay % of regional average on reprocess.
Which in turn means reprocessing anywhere outside of Jita region will cut deep % into your profits.
How's that for "pushing markets out of Jita?" It's literally the opposite.

Yes, it's retarded. Ask CCP why they made this change.

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>tfw can't remove these useless mining skills because I have to train 1.5m more SP.

>it's OK to make gameplay artificially barriered because not playing the game surely leads to interesting gameplay

>but what if we can make players play the game by not letting them play
Logic.

>>140375882
> deploy citadel with reprocessing array
> free reprocessing and compression
You didn't even think about this at all did you?

>>140375882
>Yes, it's retarded. Ask CCP why they made this change.

So Industrial Arrays / Citadels can set their own reprocessing tax?

>>140375938
were man arms the only replacements she could get

>>140376065
how much does a citadel cost?

>>140376016
Wow, it's fucking nothing.
You get 0% station reprocessing tax when you have good standings anyway.

It's not about "what happens after you get 0% tax", because that's going to stay the same - you can't get better than 0% tax.
What matters is the numbers *before* you get it. And those say unanimously "Reprocessing? Go to Jita".
That's the thing I'm calling retarded.

>>140376063
>So Industrial Arrays / Citadels can set their own reprocessing tax?
And having ISK tax over material tax is somehow better? On a dedicated industry platform that most likely wants materials over ISK?
Why not make both taxes options? Leave NPC station tax as material tax so it doesn't cause Jita-creep, and let people choose between material/isk tax on their citadel/industry array?

>>140376850
>Why not make both taxes options? Leave NPC station tax as material tax so it doesn't cause Jita-creep, and let people choose between material/isk tax on their citadel/industry array?

Well they're trying to get rid of spaghetti code, not create it.

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whats your excuse for being poor?

>>140376995
support skills autism

>>140376994
>spaghetti code
Are you kidding me?

>>140376995
>picture
The fug.

>>140376850
You're having an aneurysm over nothing m8.

NPC refining will become irrelevant - as ccp intended - and be removed down the line.

>>140376994
Spaghetti code has nothing to do with that.
It's a term to use a badly written part of code that has stupid number of dependencies, insane complexity and other stuff.
Usually interchangeable with "legacy code", both loosely meaning "code that nobody can understand"

And I cannot think of a way to turn a single click-switch between material tax and ISK tax that's saved as a single bit on a server into spaghetti code.
It's one of those things you can't fuck up if you're an adult and you can code.

>>140377474
You underestimate the ability of CCP's spaghetti powers

>>140377278
You're right.
I got overly frustrated at the fact that Jita gets more special treatment this patch (even though it's just a side-effect).

Let's hope citadels do their part in the coming months.

>>140377474
CCP has gone on record saying they can't change or delete a certain feature because it impacted (and broke) something completely unrelated.

You underestimate CCP's incompetence.

>>140377734
wait what special treatment?

>>140377852
ideally that could be the incompetence of old ccp. I'd like to think current ccp aren't dumb and shit like that, just stuck dealing with legacy shit, which there's no easy solution for

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>nerf bastion
>give it 1000% sensor strength so they can't be probed
>mfw CCP nerfing solo battleship pvp

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>>140378169
fly a real battleship m8

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Post qt characters

>>140378316
wow that is qt
i thought i made my character decent but hwow

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> 38 million spread between buy and sell orders of plex
> surely there's some profit to be made there even after the patch, because I have perfect skills
> update spreadsheets
shieeeeeet

>>140377904
I'm just referring to Jita having better (smaller) reprocessing taxes due to it being now ISK tax.
"Special treatment" is wrong word for this, but I don't know how better to call it. Favoritism is also wrong in the same manner.

>>140377852
>>140377608
Like that other Anon pointed out, I like to think it's just legacy code (meaning "old code" written by "old CCP") that's spaghetti all over the place.
Newly written parts of code are all neat and orderly.

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>>140378316

>>140377474
Even seemingly simple actions become implemented with a large amount of code when you throw security, distributed systems, and other considerations into it.

>>140378550
I see. that's gay, they should give it the same rates as everywhere else desu. I was hoping they would be incentivising people to not all use the same system/station, maybe even give it worse rates to try and spread people out

>>140378569
no this one is shit

>>140378316
how much do the hipster glasses cost on a lowest?

I'm asking for a friend implying I have any

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Amarr is #1

>maller

>>140378897
/eog/ plate rep beam omen roam when

>>140378725
no you're wrong

>>140378017
Yeah CCP were so incompetent when they were releasing brand new features every 6 months. But CCP that takes 3 years to write a distance calculation so they can remove OGB is super competent. Yeah right.

>>140378897
>Not absolution eog roam

>>140378897
>made an amarr alt for PVE
>instant reload, instant regret

>>140378651
That's true, but in our scenario we already have a player-setup tax.
So the entirety of the code for setting up custom tax is already there, including security and all that jazz.
It's just a matter of expanding that "tax setting" to include a flip-switch between isk and materials.

And while making just the tax type switching function may not be simple, expanding on an already-working system to add one extra feature isn't.
Especially since the "expanded" information could be saved in the same variable as the existing one (isk/mat can be as little as a simple bit being 0 or 1, which will most likely fit into whatever variable structure they use without changing its size).

>>140379176
I don't think it's possible for you to know whether they're competent or not unless you've seen what they're working with

Back from long hiatus, did they give a ETA for the other structure and the removal of starbases?

>>140379392
A while (tm)

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>>140379186
>>instant reload, instant regret

>>140379392
Not for a while.

And of the year at the earliest.

>>140379035
no im not shes just not cute
yuck

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>>140378897

>>140379624
> t. pleb

>>140379580
end of the year*

>>140379392
They said that if everything goes according to the plan, "today in a year" their buyback program for POS will in in full swing.
And they said that during fanfest (if you're wondering what "today" means).

>>140379724
>>140379527
Was hoping for for cristmas but i guess i'll be patient then. ty fellas

>>140379649
>meme issue

fuck off casual

also your ship needs to be cleaned m8

>>140378569
>Nose ring
>Facial piercings
>Cute

>>140379331
It's written in python.

>>140376850
You can rig them up to get greater than 50% efficiency. Also we don't even have actual industrial citadels yet.

>>140379901
you should know more than that if you're saying bad stuff m8. stackless python is an obscure piece of shit nobody cares about. its wikipedia article is like half a page

>>140379854
Look at the date mate.

Also how do you clean your ships?

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Post manly characters

>>140379901
So?
I agree python is not ideal for large-scale applications, but come on.
There's no need to generalize this much.

>>140380096
there's a button in the fitting window. it looks like it doesn't work, but it does. you just need to swap ship if you want to see it in station

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>>140380141

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>>140380141
I went through great lengths to make him look like white trailer trash. I just imagine him mining listening to dad rock, drinking quaff, and complaining about those koon Minmatar taking his jobs while his crew pretends their job is only temporary and its only a seasonal thing but eventually they end up getting promoted to manager and end up repeating the cycle of lower class lifestyle and culture in their own families.

>>140379895
Only she makes those cute. Anyone else with those are ugly.

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>>140380141

>>140380141
> banjo.png

wew lad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2o26Wh1YVg

>240M bounty

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>>140380141

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>>140380141

>>140382258
THANK YOU ABSOLUTE MADMAN

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>>140380141

>>140380084
>obscure piece of shit
afaki it's an interpreter. What kind of wiki page do you think they need?

>>140380158
Python was fine when CCP had staff actively working on EVE. Now it's not fine when they have way less staff and they are working on some VR game. But yeah I'm sure the problem is legacy code.

>>140382047
not even 'dread guristas leviathan'? pretty lazy desu ccp. and why would it have basically no support?

>>140382671
are those nose hairs long enough to be his stache

EVE lewd VN in ren'py when?

why would anyone make an alt on the same account instead of creating a new one ?

use your own referral, buy a plex to sub your new account, get 1 free plex for your main.

ccp is literally scum for letting things like this happen. 3 chars on the same account is fucking retarded.

>>140382947
>have to keep 2 accounts subbed

>>140382947
my second character is a hauler alt that moves stuff for my pvp guy. I don't need them both online at the same time, and I don't need subbing/plexing a second account just for a hauler. third guy I would use for an autismal station trader, but I'm not gay so I don't do that

>>140382947
Market hub / industrial characters usually don't need to be on a separate account from whatever "in space" purpose that account has.

>>140382947
Because after that "free plex" 30 days run out, you'll have to pay double.
Throwaway alts (30 days and kill) are not allowed.

>>140382681
Because Guristas don't use caldari names and the usual rat names only go up to battleshits. There is nothing above Pith, although ccp could just make more names.

>>140383012
>have to keep feeding plexes to your alt if you want it to keep training

aka what is multi training

its the same shit as subbing retard

ccp is scum I assume what I say

Do the new citadels appear on overview for everyone, or do you need to scan them down ?

>>140383296
You're not obligated to keep training (all the time). You can pause training and still have access to the character. You can't do that if you stop subbing a second account. There's nothing wrong with having options you sperg

>>140383464
No, they show up on overview / with system scanner

>>140383464
I think they appear on overview and also there's a system overlay thing they'll be on like with cosmic anoms

>>140383556
>>140383563
Can you choose as station owner to have them not show up?

>>140382947
I moved my market character to my main account so that I had access to him without having to keep 2 accounts subbed.

>>140383750
I don't think so, but I don't know much about this

>>140383750
Nope

>>140383884
>>140383825

Sad, i wanted to send a cap stable warpdriving interceptor off the fartest star in my system for a feww days, and have my little fortress of solitude hidden amongst the stars

>>140383510
so your argument is that having access to a character that is nothing more than a hauler ( with limited training lets admit you cant do much ) is worth giving up 1 FREE plex worth 20 eurodollars everytime you make an alt

mkay

I'm spergiing after myself because that didnt occur to me and I could have used a second account and a free plex right now but I just made an alt on the same account its my fault

So there is no repair tool for EVE anymore?
I'm experiencing massive overview glitches:
- ships not showing up while being clearly visible on grid (as brackets) - right clicking says "remove xx from overlay" so it's not incorrect overview setting
- ships not disappearing from overlay while being clearly off grid (warping 2 AU or something) - it's not uncommon to see same ship (and same player (!)) twice or even three times on the same overview.
Ever since updating to Citadel. This is CLEARLY not working as intended.

Anyone else having these issues?
Also - since there is no repair tool anymore - I'm supposed to report this as a bug even without trying to fix it on my part?

I almost died just a while ago, because scrammers wouldn't show on overview and I (almost) completely missed the fact that there were a couple tiny frigates approaching my ship.

>>140384081
it's good that you can't desu

how large can a system be? 1488 AU?

>>140384126
>with limited training lets admit you cant do much

This just isn't true. You can do pretty much anything fairly efficiently with just a few months of training, as long as it's focused.

>>140384186
I just started writing about how I can still see a repair.exe in my folder, and then my ship jumped through a gate that showed up as being 58 au away

>ccp

>>140384126
I don't think you've thought this through.
Come back and ask again in a year. Except you won't because the issues with your idea will be obvious.

>>140384186
cant you reset all settings then start fresh with new customized ones ?

>>140384186
No the overview is a little fucked up right now. Repair tool won't fix it.

do ancil remote bpcs come from? data sites?

>>140384361
How?
Or do you mean overview settings? I'm running on default now, so resetting it to default will achieve nothing.

>>140384442
>overview is a little fucked up right now
To the point of showing incorrect grids and blatantly lying about what's going on around on the grid?
I'm asking to be sure it's not just my client, because this seems to be a little too extreme of a bug to release it to the public like this.

>>140384715
No, it's not just you.
Yes, it's pretty fucked up.
No, you won't stick it to CCP for releasing it like this.

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>>140378316

>>140385085
Free SP, innit.

Game's uplayable.

>>140385085
>No, it's not just you. Yes, it's pretty fucked up.
Ok, thanks. I'll just have to pay more attention to grid now. But this is a pretty big deal if you ask me.

>No, you won't stick it to CCP for releasing it like this.
Wasn't my intent. The most severe bugs are client-side so when I see something like this I have a hard time believing it's a fuck-up on their part.

And why would I blame CCP?
It was working fine on test server, they obviously didn't do it on purpose.

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>pretending to be dror

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>>140380141
Come at me.

>>140386623
this is benji 5 years from now

>>140382869
Its funny you say that, because I was thinking about making an /eog/ themed VN. With Reyni, Chisa, and a few other meme girls being routes you could go down. I thought it'd be funny for the main character to also be Benji, but, you dont get to figure out until the very end

>girls

>>140386623
you misspelled manlet

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>>140380141
Watch out, manly man coming through

>bunch of fags dropping a fucking bubble on me in a data site
>cargo empty
>ship total worth maybe 2 mil

and there were 3 of them
rofl

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>all those awful characters itt

plebs

So I tried playing with the triple neutron blaster cannon things for my moros and they're really garbage compared to a regular blap dread.

the DPS and range aren't that great and I have a better chance of just asking a friend in his huginn to come over and web/paint a target so I can blap it, so much more damage and easier kills

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>>140380141
ALLAHU AKBAR!

>>140391859
>red hair
>black accenting hair
>tattoos that don't match aesthetic of piercings
>shit ton of scarring mixed with additional scarring details that take away from the impact of having scars in the first place
>chin juts out like a port in a harbor

mate pls

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>It's free real estate

https://zkillboard.com/kill/53617258/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53617244/

>>140394671
Red giant?

>>140394851
Bombing a hisec hole and afk

>>140394851
Some guy dual boxing abaddons with faction smarbombs while AFK.

>>140395118
>>140395221
lol

>>140394671
why did you post the shit pod? you idiot

>>140395391
I don't know

Free Real estate V2.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/53617259/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53617244/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53617272/

>>140386494
>every SP post is Dror
Would be nice if that's over.

>>140396645
it fucking is, he shills for all this shit

>>140396870
t. paranoia

>>140396870
>shit
It'd be neat if this would come with listed criticisms of the game without SP, backed with scientific resources. Until then, maybe find something better to do than posting tripe on a pixel gallery forum.

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HE'S AT IT AGAIN

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>Bifrost

>>140397162
It would be nice if you explain why you're playing EVE if you hate sp.

>>140399862
What said I was?

>>140400669
It would be nice if you explain why you want to ruin EVE for everyone playing it.

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>>140399832
hello, pic related

>>140400869
>ruin
Here: >>140397162

>>140401017
Changing the game to fit peoples tastes who aren't currently playing it at the expense of the peoples tastes that are currently playing it is what I would call "ruining the game".

See World of Warcraft
See League of Legends
See Dungeons and Dragons
See Starcraft
See literally any game ever.

You're asking to lower the barrier of entry, when that very barrier of entry is why people like playing the game. Its good for the game, its been in the game since the very beginning, its healthy for the game. The only "evidence" you can provide is that it might increase subscriber rates which is not the same as "making a better game".

I shouldn't even be replying to this because you are literally retarded and your going to claim everything I say is non substantial or made up, or opinion, or some other bullshit that lets you ignore the reasons that I and many others don't want the fundamental aspects of the game to be changed.

I don't even want the players that might join if sp was changed playing the game period because they are the same type of people that complain if literally anything is unfair in a game. They'd want instanced arenas because "numbers plus one combat is stupid and doesn't require skill!", they would demand change of hundreds of mechanics because "they don't allow proper counterplay", or "this isn't a player humane mechanic" or whatever retarded bullshit they spit on a constant basis because they're absolutely vegetable tier humans.

CCP is doing a fantastic job with EVE, they're one of the few game companies that hasn't actively shit up their own game.

>>140401984
>they don't allow proper counterplay

this is an actual thing, don't lump fixing shitty game balance in with casuals

>>140401984
>at the expense
That would imply the game being less of what it is. How is the game less just because vets get less VIP veterancy? The purpose of the game is the sandbox, yes?

The barrier of entry isn't "lower" if what's removed is just money requirements. Everything in the game is still exactly the same.

What's not provided is how it's actually negative at all.

Same with
>it's good for the game
Based on what and for whom?

>the only evidence you can provide is that it might increase subscriber rates which is not the same as "making a better game"
Both factually incorrect.

>I don't even want the players that might join
Not people. Not beings. Everybody is some 99% biologically the same. If you can't make whatever demographic you're describing better or ignore them, the problem assuredly isn't them.

>instanced areans
That's already a pretty popular request. It's a fine idea because it could still be implemented within the economy.

>there would be criticisms of the game mechanics and tuning
There already is.

(>>140402258
5 star post.)

In all, that post is fucking wordspew, and you should have an idea about based game design and how trivial "opinions" actually are to any productivity. There is actual scientific backing for how a game should be designed for 99% of mechanics. Everything above or below that is at the developer's / community's mercy.

>>140402258
There is a case by case basis on this. Casuals often don't consider "don't engage x with y like a retard" valid counterplay.

x could be ship x and ship y, or fleet x and fleet y. eg. even if they get caught in a shitty position or situation they think there should be a way out. The very basis of EVE combat is that pretty much every single fight is unfair and I think this is realistic and maintains the sandbox well.

Sometimes you are forced into a position of fighting and throughout EVE history people that "should" have lost have ended up victorious. But EVE online isn't an arena game with 5v5 matches and I personally think encouraging that type of gameplay is not what people want from the game because it functions in direct opposition to the emergant gameplay in the universe.

>>140402923
Casuals and core is a false dichotomy. It's almost humorous that it sums up this whole argument.

>>140402923
that's fine. I thought you were saying it's fine that there's literally nothing you can do about retarded broken shit like orthruses or dread blapping or ecm etc.

I agree that it's fine that there are situations where you are supposed to get fucked, and the game is not being in those situations. like the people who complain about 'blobbing', those people are dumb most of the time

https://twitter.com/Mintchiplol/status/724735008527753216

>>140404105
Stop giving this whore attention

I don't know why you felt the need to post this.

>>140403017
By casuals I don't mean players that are bad or good. There is plenty non casuals that spend 100 hours a week farming level 4's in their bling fit paladin who are the same people that lose $2000 of plex in a shuttle.

There are professional gamers that I'd consider as casual because they share objectives and opinions with the casual crowd.

Casuals think EVE should be: a game first and a sandbox second.

Non Casuals think the game should be: a Sandbox first and a game second.

Which is where the opinions we have are directly opposed. Its not even like I'm in the hardcore veteran crowd, I'm sitting at sub 40 mil sp. I just think you can do whatever you want to do well within a month or two at most save extremely elite shit like flying a marauder, command ship. and capital ships.

SP provides what I think is an extremely valuable barrier between planning and execution in EVE that's valuable to the sandbox. I've already stated examples that you ignored because??? I have no idea. But SP keeps alliances functioning like actual corporations and groups do.

Long story short I personally like that a players list of characters is an asset of themselves and their corporation. Gathering skilled pilots(and skilled characters) is a thing that exists in the game and that I like because its realistic.

>>140404378
But shes SOOOOO beautiful doc.

>>140404445
The problem:

SP undermines the competence factor.

SP limits socialization by making the referral process asinine.

SP prevents the autonomy -- the freedom to pick and play a/multiple roles within the sandbox -- with a money gate.. the single thing probably most potential players don't have, especially coming to a game featuring the option to play for free.

That's all of the most important motivational factors, and the game filters all of them through this artificial barrier. It's shit to experience, and there's basically no end to the cliff that is SP progression, so it's not as if it's just this thing to get over .. because there are some 20y of skill queues.

Setting up the casual and core demographic idea is still a false dichotomy that has no basis in game theory or science.

Alliances and corporations could do what they would if they could fly and industrialize what they would. It's that simple.

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>>140405318

>>140373531
>rpgs are built on artificial barriers
that's funny i thought they were built on role playing

>>140406636
they used to be, but then people decided that an element common to lots of roleplaying games that isn't roleplaying is now what roleplaying means

>>140405318
>SP undermines the competence factor.

So are you just going to completely remove skills from the game?

>SP limits socialization by making the referral process asinine.

SP improves socialization because you can't do everything yourself you need friends with the correct skills. I can't fly a freighter so my options are to train for a freighter or hire someone who does fly freighters to haul my shit. If you have friends you often choose specialty skills between each other so you can cover more bases.

SP prevents the autonomy

This is a difference between favoring a sandbox or favoring a game like mentality. I prefer having to specialize a characters training and role because it makes more sense. I don't care if it makes the game less fun to play or that people don't want to join because they feel restricted. They can go fuck off.

>>140405550
I assume this was supposed to be on your post.

You might consider it "just better game design" but I disagree. EVE is a niche game and niche games in general tend to sacrifice things that would be considered "good game design" to achive a different type of experience than the normal experience you get from games. Theres theories to making "Good movies" and "Good music" too which play on things humans generally think just sounds better or is more entertaining.

The things that get remembered though as great works are things that ignore those rules and do there own thing and that provide an experience that is different well crafted and unique.

Not everything has to follow the stupid rules you think they should follow.

>>140406636
Playing a role is an artificial barrier. "what your character would do" is an artificial barrier. Stop being retarded.

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rate me video please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhE1SbfPghk

>>140407162
Is he whispering because he doesn't want his mom to know he's playing internet spaceships?

The fuck

>>140406973
>So are you just going to completely remove skills from the game?
Even removing just cap SP is a fine idea.

>SP improves socialization because you can't do everything yourself you need friends with the correct skills
It's EveryoneVsEveryone. Players are already completely out of commission without a corp. Point invalid.

>This is a difference between favoring a sandbox or favoring a game like mentality. I prefer having to specialize a characters training and role because it makes more sense.
Based on what? 40M SP? Empathy.

>You might consider it "just better game design" but I disagree.
Well, you have science to both esteem for that picture and to counter to make a valid point. Until that, motivational science wins.

>music/movie analogy
Not interactive.

>>140407558
your mom more like

>>140407162
>all this serious music and serious fcing to kill an npc

>FC enemy supercarrier is target painted

>>140407632
>motivational science
ayyyyyyy

>>140407162
> OVERLOAD EVERYTHING
> to kill an npc
lel

>>140408480
they're more excited about killing an npc than my guys are about killing real titans

also mfw t1 mwd

>>140407162
Was it in a belt or anom? Do they even spawn in belts?
>neuting an npc
lolol

>supercarrier
>guns

>>140407632
>reasonable point made
NOT VALID
>another reasonable analogy made
NOT VALID
>Based on what
what do you mean based on what, it takes time to be able to learn how to do things. A game mentality would say "well that time is me learning how to do said thing" and a simulation mentality would say "I can learn as a player how to mine, or fly a capital ship in less than an hour of instruction, that's clearly not realistic in any sense and retarded you shouldn't be able to just fly the biggest and most powerful ships in the game as soon as you join, that's retarded."

I'd be okay with what you want to do, such as removing SP, if everything in the game was hundreds of times more expensive to build than it currently is.

I don't want to see everyone flying the best of everything. I want to see most people flying "stuff thats okay at what it does and mass producible" and a few people dedicated to a task flying ships that are the best at it. You know if there was no SP requirements large coalitions would be shoving as many people as possible into capitals for blob fights completely subsidized by the coalitions.

This is what I was talking about and why I should just not talk to you. This isn't even a conversation, you're literally just fucking trolling.

>>140408803
wew lad don't have an aneurysm

Not even him, but you're retarded.

lads

quit eve long ago
saw new trailer, got very slightly interested

tl;dr me on citadels

I know how they function and all, are they working in the game, and what's their effect so far?

>>140409232
Its only been a day I don't think any citadels are even made yet.

>>140409232
Yet to be built and put-up in-game, so ask in like a month.

EVE's nice nowadays, there's stuff to do, it's a good time to come back.

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>>140408803
>You know if there was no SP requirements large coalitions would be shoving as many people as possible into capitals for blob fights completely subsidized by the coalitions.

>>140409232
Patch was only yesterday.

The smallest citadel takes 5 days to build before bonusses so don't expect to see any until sunday at the very least.

The others take 15 and 30 days so that's gonna be even longer.

>>140408803
Over 50% of that subsidized ISK would disappear with every ship.

>>140409232
they take a few days to build m8 I expect in the next day or two we'll see some mediums appear, then a few days after that larges, and then idk a couple of weeks or so after that some xls

their effect is basically nothing, they're just giant space dicks for people to shoot each other over and for lazy supercap pilots to dock in. I guess if you care about wormhole space they'll be a big thing there, since you have a real place to live rather than living in a pos like a peasant

>>140408803
>You know if there was no SP requirements large coalitions would be shoving as many people as possible into capitals for blob fights completely subsidized by the coalitions.
i have bad news

>>140409313
>>140409357
Oh, I see.

So their functionality is basically a literal station where the corp has full control over taxes and fees, right?

What about datamining their orders, is that possible? Because if automated mining disappears from trading, I might as well resub, as that would unironically make trading interesting.

>>140409592
They're meant to be the main structure for your corp/alliance. Best defenses, cloning bay, market hubs etc. They're going to release an industry related structure later this year.

The market should be publicly available so I suppose you could datamine it if their crest api supports citadels

>>140409232
garbage gimmicky shit, wasted development time.
Eve is still the least shit mmo on the market though.

>>140410031
they're a good use of development time, I just think they fucked up by making them a separate type of station. why the fuck do I care about citadels when normal stations still exist? I feel like they should've turned all stations into citadels or something, at least the nullsec ones

>>140410206
You realize that's going to happen eventually right?

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>>140410429
its just a beta

>>140404774
>>140404378
>>140404105
What happened to her? During the times when I first tried EVE I seem to remember her

>>140410429
I think they should've done it with the expansion release. I'm supposed to be hyped about them but they don't really do anything at the moment, except be a place you can warp to if you want to get raped, or be another contrived thing to fight over. I heard they repair laser crystals, so that's something I guess

>>140410843
> they don't really do anything at the moment
Nigga you can make your own market hub and profit off the taxes. You can dock supercaps in them. Unlimited jump cloning, etc.

>>140404774
she has ugly feet tho

>>140411213
just a pvper m8. getting shekelled by players rather than npcs when I buy my shit in highsec isn't all that compelling, and I don't do supers or jump clone ever.

to me though, the real point of citadels is they're destructable stations, and some thought has gone into how you destroy and defend them (even though I'm really sceptical of that and those citadel weapons and structure grinds look gay af) unlike pos

the fact that you can store supers in the larger ones, and some more thought has gone into how taxes, station games and access control and shit works is nice and all, but is really easily secondary to the destructable stations part. but if you can still just live in a non-destructable station, then the main point of these things isn't really there yet

or at least in my shitty opinion anyway. I guess I don't care that much anyway since I wouldn't be doing any kind of sov/structure/pos/whatever grinds even if people did have to live in them

Majority of in-game choices are built around there being SP barriers and whatnots.

Remove it now and not only will you cause mass-exodus of bittervets by killing their sunken cost fallacy (which was the only reason they stuck around btw), but you'll also cause retarded shifts in meta, with cookie cutters going fucking global.
Balance would be all over the place with a no-cost associated with cross-training, and no other bounds to use straight-up ships but ISK.
Some FOTM T2 and T3 ship prices would skyrocket to high heavens, nobody would fly T1s, and vast majority of T2s would get forgotten, outshined by same-class different-faction ships.

That would also cause all sorts of balance issues, completely knocking performance/manufacturing price (in materials) out of whack literally turning entire EVE industry into mass-scale cookie cutters.
Any attempt to kill a "FOTM" would result in creation of a new FOTM.
Since everybody could fly everything with no restrictions, and there'd always be one ship that's better than other in any class, only this one would be produced. Hipsters aside.


Sure, no SP sounds like a cool idea... *IF YOU'RE MAKING A NEW GAME*.
Turning an entire game (that's currently faring very will with there being SP) upside now for some arbitrary reason will, at the very least, turn it into a graveyard for many years; or - at worst - kill it outright.

Don't get me wrong, I'm often frustrated by how long training skills to V takes, but to remove it completely is just a bad idea. Very bad.
There's a saying - if it's working, don't fix it.

why don't you just fly with the skill at level 4 you fucking autist

>>140413348
I do. That doesn't stop me from being frustrated about it.
Still, I prefer training to V to take ages, to there being no SP at all.

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>>140413239
>mass-exodus of bittervets
Only if they don't enjoy the game exactly how it is now, but with more content.

>retarded shifts in meta, with cookie cutters going fucking global
This is obviously talking about having no fitting limitations. Yet, it allows more room for interesting meta redesign/tuning. Something's apparently OP? Well, now the metrics are there because it's actually being flown.

Nothing is really cookie cutter anyway. Everything has a counter and an alternative.

>Balance would be all over the place
>SP affects balance

>no other bounds to use straight-up ships but ISK
That's no issue.

>Meta T2 and T3 prices would skyrocket
Unless they're produced.

>nobody would fly T1s
The fresh demographic would have to learn somewhere, and they'd have to make ISK before exclusively flying T2s/T3s. In any case, that's more logged on and farming.

This is also without sourcing. T1 everything is super fun to fly, and that's intensified by the price.

>vast majority of T2s would get forgotten, outshined by same-class different-faction ships / there'd always be one ship that's better than other in any class, only this one would be produced
That would be a tuning problem but also inaccurate. There's no single best ship in any class.

Even more, there's a margin that has to be upheld for profit. Ships hitting that would thus cause other trade hubs to come.

So, this is all still conjecture, completely.

>>140360056
good job maow

would you fuck a nidhoggur

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When is he joining Snuff?

>>140414979
The fact that you think less restrictions means better gameplay is also conjecture.

>>140415415
Nope. Science provided.

Is it inappropriate for me, as a new guy, to complain about a lot of red on the killboard? I was under the impression that I had joined a serious group at first, but I am less sure now. I wasn't going to bring it up out of the blue, but I have a corp meeting this weekend. I've been in for two weeks, and have 3 losses myself (2 dumbass mistakes on my part, 1 just bad luck), I feel like I'm not really in a position to complain about it, but I don't lose ships to camps that have been reported umpteen times in intel.

>>140415463
A picture isn't science about better gameplay.

More people playing isn't science about better gameplay.

Good gameplay is completely subjective.

>>140414979
>So, this is all still conjecture, completely.
Of course it is. What did you expect?
You're countering me with nothing but conjecture too, as expected.

One thing I don't understand, is that you disregard all points "because they are conjecture", yet provide nothing that's not supposition yourself.
What's it called? Is it called being a faggot?

Or is the word hypocrisy?
Yup, that's the word.


You just lost yourself a discussion partner m8.

>>140415475
Of course; say what you think is right, just make sure you are able to defend your arguments

had you joined all-out you wouldn't even have this problem

>>140415330
When does it happen irl?

>>140415475
how about you ask them

and without seeing the killboard it's hard to say, but there are lots of unavoidable losses. for example I die all the time and I'm good at the game. it's not the same as retards who die all the time to stupid shit in dumb fits. it's likely that you're being autistic, but as I say I can't tell without seeing the killboard

>>140415475
Bring it up, either they make fun of you and they leave, or people in command positions think more highly of you because you can see and state the truth, eg taking initiative, instead of letting things rot from the inside.

>>140415724
>>140415475
By "of course" I meant "no, it's not inappropriate" - you're just giving feedback to the corp/alliance

>>140415593
A picture of motivation theory very much is "better gameplay" because feeling like playing the game more is that the game is literally better.

>>140415653
>countering with nothing but conjecture too
See above.

The science is there. It's no manner of conjecture, so why the upset? Apparently losing grounds on the motivation discussion isn't fun.

>>140415724
I guess your spoiler is meant as some sort of joke, but I don't play mmos with /vg/. I learned that lesson already.

>>140416014
Skinnerbox games make you play the game a lot, but its shit gameplay, time played isn't a good measurement of good gameplay.

>>140416273
Where there is no comparison, there is respect. More time played in EVE is more enjoyment of the game.

>>140416153
>you shouldn't play mmos with /vg/
tep kok
depends on the game desu
I've played with /vg/ on warframe, dota2, and EVE - it's nothing but fun. Maybe you played Ragnarok Online with /vg/; that game is full of dramu and >muh cliques

>>140415475
>3 losses in two weeks
kid that's what I go through hourly

>dota

>league of legends

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>>140416595

>>140415764
Yeah I'm not talking about unavoidable losses. I am talking about situations where someone will link three guys in Intel and say they are camping gate X. An hour later I see losses to those same people. Not losses in a straight-up fight, but stuff you can tell was just a gank; an inty getting blown up by 4 svipuls that sort of thing. Or someone says not to undock because X is camping the undock, 10 mins later someone undocks and gets melted. If I was in a humongous sov-holding alliance I would expect that sort of idiocy, but I thought I was joining a lean, mean, fighting-machine.

>>140415781
Yeah I will. I just wonder if I am an annoying member because I make a lot of suggestions and point this sort of thing out pretty often. Not necessarily performance issues, but if I see a problem I usually say something. I just came back to Eve after a long hiatus, I think I used to be okay but I am straight up terrible now, so it feels weird to point this out. I am usually arguing from a position of strength.

>>140409456
>ship destruction is an isk sink
i have bad news for you son

>>140416564
If you play tera with /vg/ its full of loli ERP

>>140417213
>time isn't money
>buying things off the market and losing them isn't money lost

>>140416564
The mmos I have played with /vg/ are Tera and Final Fantasy XIV and I will never play another game with /vg/ again after those. I will concede that every group is different and I don't doubt that you had fun with a solid crew here, but I personally am done. I post and lurk in threads, that's it.

>>140417421
u dum

Buying things of the market isn't an isk sink. Isk just exchanges hands. The only isk sink here is the brokers fees and taxes.

>>140417791
>ignoring what that post says completely
OK.

>>140416014
You're claiming science is backing up "less restriction = more fun" thesis. (In fact, you're claiming there's actual PROOF for that. I'd like to see that proof, but I'll settle for evidence.)
I'm claiming science is backing up "more restriction = more fun" thesis.

Source for my claim: a whole ton of research into psychological field by Barry Schwartz.
Check out ted talk titled "Barry Schwartz - The paradox of choice". It's good stuff.

So, listen up m8:
People are different, some have more fun if there's more choice, perhaps they like choosing. That's a thing, you know?
Some hate it. Some don't care. These are all valid.

This is directed at you, for criticizing all other people's points of views and paying no regard that yours - is no more than just another point of view.

To continue:
Established EVE playerbase has no issue with current SP system, else they wouldn't be playing.
We're still getting a shitton of new players. Game's faring pretty damn well.

Why change something that players are OK with? Based on pseudo-science that has equally as much evidence for it, as against it?
That's not a good reason, you'll have to do better than that.

>>140417913
I thought he was wrong at first too but he is right. Its not much of an ISK sink, its a materials sink, and kind of a relative wealth sink.

What you are destroying with a ship is the minerals mined not really the isk, that just changes hands.

>>140418579
The point is that subsidizing coalitions wouldn't have that money.

>>140417269
what's wrong with erp

>>140418887
Nothing, fluffy tails is a good time.

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>ted talk

>>140417538
what's wrong
at a glance both are just par for the course of a typical /vg/ general

So I'm ratting in Serpentis null right now in a VNI. I have some decent drone skills and Gallente cruiser V. Can use T2 lights and meds, T1 heavies and sentries. With Wasp I drones I'm pulling about 346 dps but only ~8mil per tick ratting anoms. Sentries would push me to 366 which I don't feel would change much. Anything else I can do to reach the supposed 20mil/tick that null ratting gives?

>>140386986
>meme girls
Chisa is only the meme girl. She should be biomassed.

>>140419487
use navy drones if you can't use t2, and maybe try ogres. they have better damage type for serpentis and higher paper dps, but they're also slower so they might be worse

https://zkillboard.com/kill/53592573/

-1 chremoas

>>140419487
i was looking up benchmarks for ratting ticks a little while ago and my impression is that 20m ticks are when you have 700-1000 dps and is usually using things like rattlesnakes and vindicators. the reason ishtars and vni's are a recommended thing at all is not because they have a good rate, but because you can afk them really well for a long period of time. Compare this to an active tanked rattle, or to a vindi with just enough tank to survive while wrecking the rats before they leave his blaster range. these are harder to manage but have higher ticks.

tl;dr: you're flying a fit designed to be orbiting at 30km on a second monitor while you shotgun Daredevil episodes.

>>140419946
Don't Serpentis take more from Kin than Thermal? I know theyre weak to both but I thought Kin was more. Otherwise both Ogres and Wasps deal the same damage. They have the same rate of fire, but Ogres have a 0.1 better damage modifier. Depends on the difference between the damage type holes I guess.

>>140420518
pretty sure thermal

ogres do more damage than wasps, I think that's what you're saying, I'm not sure

>>140420650
Ogres and Wasps deal the same base damage (64) but Wasps have 1.5x damage modifier, Ogres have 1.6x. Most resources have Serpentis damage weaknesses being Kin/Therm, in the order, but no specific numbers. I'll try some Ogres tonight when it's quiet in my area (War's really picked up out here) and see how my ticks change.

>>140420518
>Don't Serpentis take more from Kin than Thermal? I know theyre weak to both but I thought Kin was more.
I think kin is tiniest bit more (on average) don't quote me on this. Ogres do deal more damage.
You should still experiment. Just bring ogres next time, what's the worst that could happen?
They are so close to each other in DPS/resist profiles that the isk/hour difference won't be a big deal, and you'll come out armed with that extra knowledge.

>>140420518
Thermal is better, and ogre do more anyway. Only problem with ogre is that they are slow asses.

Thats the reason i don't bother with Heavy and go straigh for heavys, fuck waiting for them to actually reach their target

>>140420985
>Ogres and Wasps deal the same base damage (64) but Wasps have 1.5x damage modifier, Ogres have 1.6x.

we just call that doing more damage m8

>>140421060

>doesn't bother with Heavy
>goes straig for heavy

What is this meme?

>>140421327
Sentries, my bad

>>140368530
>>140368073
I asked Fozzie during fanfest: on a scale of 1 to 10 how dead is jamyl.

And he said 10

>>140422523
lies

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>tfw there's a late night op tonight and your wife wants you in bed with her

>>140422523
Jamyl is dead. But the plot spot is open.
If they ever need an ex-empress coming back with vengeance - they got just the trick.
Doesn't mean they will use it tho, just that they might

>>140422657
I also thanked him for all the changes he had made to the game. Especially WHs

>>140422901
Did they not do this already? would be boring if she pulls a jesus twice. Who actually got the corpse?

>>140422817

Eh she can probably call her black lover instead some other day, dont worry anon.

>

>>140426492
>>

What's with the niggershitposting?

>>140428735

Its just the normal state of the white man. To admire the might of the blacks.

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Guristas Commanders are master tacticians, frequently veterans of empire navies before swerving off the straight path to become outlaws.

This heavily modified Leviathan-class Titan represents a new level of threat from the Guristas Pirates. Rumors suggest that the Guristas gained access to Titan technology by salvaging the wreckage of capsuleer capital shipyards destroyed in one of their numerous wars within the Guristas-occupied nullsec regions.

Threat level: "We're going to need a bigger ship"

Reminder that will smith and dog posting niggerfaggots are cancer

>>140429372

Tiny dick impotent white male detected.

Have you masturbated to BBC porn today yet whitey?

>>140429449
go back to your cuckshed and prep your bull there
baka

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>namefag

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Who else baking a citadel? Can't wait to see for how much the first ones will sell.

>>140429607
nice cuckshed, faggoy

>>140429607

>astrahaus

Lol.

Who's this insecure cuckposter

>>140429686
Guys pls, keep your autism contained.
It's spilling into civil topics.

>>140429686
poors need not apply.

>>140429914

I really dont know.

But his constant use of the n word could mean his hate for the blacks and the BBC.

Funny thing, even tho he hates them, he probably masturbates at the thought of them fucking the shit out of his oneitis.

>White people

>>140430146
you're the insecure cuckposter

>namefagging
Lmaoing @ his life

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>Dear Editors, you are doing a great disservice to the community by painting EVE as a safe space where harassment is handled. Harassment is widespread in EVE and Paul “CCP Falcon” Elsy doesn't simply turn a blind eye on it, but champions it himself.
>EVE as a safe space

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3cfps8/fyi_use_rescacheexe_to_clean_up_the_shared/

Have you purged today?

>>140431287
That dude is crazy, but CCP Falcon was always a cunt when he was a player.

is reyni dallocort reyni allas-rui's alt or one of his stalkers?