>"Turn based combat is so fucking boring, I don't

Why is he wrong?

>>390041921
After 18 years I still unironically enjoy Dragon Quedt

>hank-kun

File: 1388635464100.gif (595KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

595KB, 480x360px

>>390041921
>"RPGs have no depth. It's only smash X to win"
>"Has only played Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest"

File: toki-wo-7.jpg (204KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 1920x1080px

>>390041921
>mfw

>>390041921
The fact that most turn-based games are shit and refuse to progress makes this true.

Persona 5 has a great turn-based combat system which shits all over the turn based RPGs we've gotten for years and years.
For SRPGs games like Valkyria Chronicles pushed the gameplay forward, yet devs still stick to the tiled shit.

>played the best turn based rpgs
>didn't like turn based
I don't see what the problem is, people have their opinions

File: 1389925714260.gif (2MB, 400x225px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x225px

>>390042819
>the best turn based rpgs
>final fantasy
>pokemon
Opinion discarded

File: LancerSerious.png (487KB, 476x616px) Image search: [Google]

487KB, 476x616px

Show them XCOM

>>390042202
>and Dragon Quest
>smash X to win
>Dragon Quest
What the fuck am i reading here anon?

>>390041921
Is this the King of the Hill anime

>>390042819
>Japanese COD and NBA
>good

>>390042320
I love turn-based combat, but THIS.
Why do they stick with fucking 1990 dated shit?
Everytime i play a SRPG i feel like the devs are making me waste my time.
Want to ATK? You need to do Move>Confirm>Attack>Select Attack>SelectTarget>Confirm Attack>END TURN>CONFIRM TURN END.

File: IMG_0574.jpg (804KB, 2044x2860px) Image search: [Google]

804KB, 2044x2860px

>>390041921
He is kind of right though, i love Persona, but im not about to play a game that's 80 hours of P4's gameplay without 3/4 of it being narrative, its simply it that fun to play turnbased games. Imagine a game that was just all dungeon crawling and fusion but had about as much story as the average souls game or MGSV, i wouldn't fucking buy it.

>>390042320
This.
Turn-based combat can be great but not if devs are just lazy uncreative shits that use the same mechanics they used 15 years ago.
Time waits for no one.

Devs should learn that being turn based is not synonymous with being slow. Make brief to-the-point animations and the snappiest menus possible, turn based combat needs a flow too.

>>390042963
My ayy

>>390041921
name five games with good turn-based combat

>>390041921
Turn based combat is not ideal, but non-turn based combat is terrible 95% of the time. Most of the time RPGs today are just button mashers for the ADD generation.

File: The Girl Who Leapt Through Time.gif (2MB, 540x300px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 540x300px

>>390041921
>>390042270
Great film, though the ending was a bit weak.

Playing Devil's Advocate, turn based combat is inherently slower than other styles. Coupled with repetitive gameplay this can be very boring. There are ways to get around it though, like Persona's rush mode or as >>390043714
said, make everything snappier.

ITT: people who don't understand the difference between turn-based combat, speed-based combat. and ATB

File: 1296366797385.jpg (113KB, 936x398px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 936x398px

I find that if turn based combat doesn't have some kind of component of movement with a map and advantages for being in specific spots the game is pretty much unplayable

Having characters rooted in one spot while spamming the same attack over and over is the gameplay of a brainlet.

>>390043215
I fucking love SRPGs anon, I'm sorry you feel that way. It's a very comfy genre for me I sink huge amounts of hours into. At this point I'd prefer it not change too much

I feel the same about DRPGs

>>390042976
Dragon Quest games are even easier than Final Fantasy games you dingus

>Turn based combat is bad because it's slow

what a fucking lame ass excuse

>>390044257
>turn based
>slower
Compared to what?

turn based combat is shit
crpgs used to use it because of technical limitations
now only weebshits use it because your average jap or weeb hate gameplay and need to have one hand off the controller to masturbate their sore looser dick

>>390044257
>Great film
It was shit mate, ESPECIALLY the ending.

>>390046147
Fuck off

>>390046001
>slow
>good

kek

>>390042046
He is just a normie who can't admit his bad taste

>>390045479
>turn-based combat, speed-based combat
These are both turn-based, they just have different ways of determining turn order.

>>390046113
Name 1 western game with good action combat
I'll wait

>>390041921
I know a guy who can't stand it, but because everyone around him keeps talking about it he keeps buying games like FE or FFT. I've actually gotten some free games out of it.

>>390043215
I honestly felt like the nineties tried a lot of different ways to have turn-based combat. The JRPGs we do have nowadays are just so safely nestled in their niches and the standouts with interesting mechanics are always years apart.

https://youtu.be/5_TjClmq718?t=14m2s

>>390053001
>level ups in the middle of combat
Why?

>>390041921
It's not turn based combat that bothers me but random encounters with no indicators on the overworld.

I just want to backtrack a bit and get an item, not get swarmed with 10 random encounters.

>>390054338
All the level ups are just tied to proficiencies with each weapon. You get points as you fire your pistols, SMGs, or chuck nades and you ding when you hit the required xp.

>>390041921
Problem with the more complex turn based games, is that they usually get over convoluted way too fast for the average player.
The reason games like pokemon and FFs are so popular is because they ease the player into them slowly.
(personally wish there was a dfifficulty slider, so the fans can actually start off with more than just basic attack and potions for options, as we already understand the mechanics, and dont need over simplified combat.)

As if persona games have all that much depth. Just remember to buff/debuff and find weaknesses.

>>390051587
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS49Dazin3E

>>390049590
you can use that argument for everything.
They use the phrase "turn based" for the sake of explaining combat which has 0 time limits, and is the equivalent of the game pausing, lessening you make 1 choice per pause, letting all the information you need come out to you, w/o need to think of any counter measures, until the next prompt, which is also paused.

In a shooter, u can usually pause at any point, nearly having a similar amount of "turn based" elements.

Which is why we call turn based "turn based", so everyone understands.

Also, having simple or limited number of actions is what sells well. Its why shooters sell so well, the number of actions you can take, are extremely limited.

But the number of ways you can use those limited actions are less limited.
Complex turn based games give you a larger number of base actions, with less ways to use them.

Its easier to think you're doing well, when a shooter only gives you "Shoot" option, but many directions to aim, because you understand what you did wrong.

When an RPG gives you 100 different and unique spells per character to use, its much harder for the average person to know what they did wrong, and in turn will think you're doing worse than someone who failed a segment in an FPS.

When you fail in an FPS< you can think to yourself, just bash my head against this the same way i had before, and maybe ill do better.

in a turn based game, unless you get some seriously lucky RNG, you're not going to make 2+1 = 97
(Though I have seen some people attempt that, no matter what I tell them.)

>>390055452
FF8 lets you go ham right away...after like an hour of leveling Quetzacoatl so he gets card and card mod.

>>390045876
It's ok that you love it, but it's still bad. All that time spent in menus could be time spent reading lore or looking at tits or literally anything else.

File: 1472187198370.png (134KB, 372x334px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 372x334px

>>390046147
You sir have shit taste

>>390056559
>All that time spent in menus could be time spent reading lore or looking at tits or literally anything else
The same could be said of literally all video games, anon

>>390057378
Don't be dumb, anon. I could be spending more time actually enjoying the game's content if the menu were simpler. Do you actually enjoy the menu itself?

>>390057578
Hey, maybe I do.
Wanna fight about it?

>>390057734
No. You sound like you just want to start shit because someone said your game has a flaw.

>>390042320
Your post lost all credibility when you praised the shallow system of persona

>>390056082
I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

>>390056559
The Bravely series has a special combo system based around the music even though it's turn based. When you activate super, a characters theme plays for one minute and thirty seconds and you get these sick stat boosts for the duration of the song. If you can meet the requirements to activate super again in that time frame, you can stack more buffs and it'll keep going as long as you can keep activating super again, and the super buffs ignore the normal ceilings for how high your stats can grow.

https://youtu.be/5Gv4SPRJkuI

>>390042320
This
I can no longer play turn based rpgs if it's not in a emulator.
I NEED the fast forward to endure them.

>>390056082
>Maybe i can bash my head against this the same way until i do better

Did you never played a challenging action game in your life ?

>>390041921
>Turn based games aren't boring
>Clicks ability and 10+ seconds for animation to take place for every character.

File: 6b8db024990878290f10f4760e28bc8e27d3d9e2c9e569a2fce693b946ea2828.png (171KB, 400x369px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 400x369px

>>390041921
>"RPG's are all about grinding. You can't get anywhere without grinding for ten hours"
>Does nothing but mash the attack button and occasionally the heal button

>>390059220
I see this guy everywhere in /v/ but I never played persona, only the shitty gba knockoffs.
Is the bossfight as seizure inducing as people say?

>>390059498
>Persona

>>390059498
He's there to teach you how to use buffs and debuffs. At the start he puts himself at max evasion, and every time you miss you lose turns. So you have to buff your accuracy and lower his evasion to beat him
If you try to brute force him anyway he'll tear you to pieces on his second phase because you won't be able to kill him before he kills you

>>390059596
Shin megami tenshit

>>390059746
Oh, I'll see.
So he's the casual filter then?

>>390059498

>persona

Persona is shallow shit,even 5 which is SMT-lite.

File: 1470192558635[1].jpg (48KB, 1284x724px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 1284x724px

>>390059828
Essentially. He's a joke once you know how to beat him and aren't an idiot, but he's impossible without.
I personally think the boss right after him is much harder, with no easy way to resist his elements, twice as much health, a single target spell that hurts like a motherfucker and a self heal. It's just once you understand how to buff and debuff the rest of the game is much easier

>>390060127
Honestly, vidya needs more bosses like those who force you to think out of the table and change your pattern.
That's why best games have status effects and debuffs.

>>390060328
And that's exactly what we got with Final Fantasy 13 but that was supposedly a bad thing

>>390060467
The core issue is that people are lazy and dumb, and when they play pokemon or early final fantasy it reinforces those habits. So once they hit something that can't be killed through tank and spank they bitch
I haven't played 13 though. Didn't that game tightly control how much xp you got so you could always get through the story?

>>390041921
>>390042202
>>390042872
>>390048706

very well, but you are not giving any examples of some worthwhile turn-based combat

>>390060328
We already have quite a lot of rpg like that but people would rather make angry post on /v/ than play them.

>>390060467
FF XIII didn't use its system well enought imo. I liked it but it needed to be more difficult.

>>390060467
Haven't played 13, never been a FF fan except for the Tactics saga.

>>390060670
Does Darkest Dungeon fill that criteria?
I quite like the variety of strategies and the different approach of each boss fight.

>>390060627
I am trying. I like this topic specifically because I'm nostalgic for when there were a lot more JRPGs that experimented with turn-based shit.
>>390058252
>>390053001

>>390060598
>>390060670
I found maybe 5 or so bosses pretty hard and I know people who have dropped the game because "it's too hard". Seriously.

And it's way harder than any of the earlier FF games. There is actually something that you need to think when going against bosses.

>>390041921
What games prove him wrong?

>>390060767
>I quite like the variety of strategies and the different approach of each boss fight.
nigga please most boss fights are a stupendous damage race. Darkest Dungeons does many things right, the combat is not one of them.

>>390045946
i don't know about that, if you don't grind or get the newest/ craft-able items you get fucked easy. in final fantasy you just go to the newest store and buy the most expensive weapon for your class.

>>390060627
Radiant Historia, SMT, Bravely Default, Mario and Luigi, Paper Mario

>>390043458
nigga play smt nocturne the story takes a back seat while you fuse and catch demons. it only pops up when it needs to, no relationships, no school and no murder mystery and its pretty tough.

>>390060797
It's impossible to because it's so subjective. If a guy decides that he doesn't like any turn-based games, for whatever reason, then you won't be able to convince him otherwise.

What's the Dark Souls of turn-based RPGs?

>>390061270
Darkest Dungeon I guess? It depends, are we talking about gameplay, ambientation, style, lore?

>click attack
>watch animation
>click heal
>watch animation
>summon GF
>10 minute long cutscene of a demon spawning and shooting magic ballz at bad guise

>>390061439
>get to next town
>sleep at inn
>buy new equipment
>set out again
>rinse and repeat

>>390061439
That's why I like SMT. Animations are nice and quick. Something like FFX feels like 30% of the game is spent looking at animations.

>>390041921
if this thread wasn't just JRPG weebshit you could get some proper opinions on turn based combat

>>390060767
Darkest Dungeon have a lot of possible combo so yes. The biggest flaw is that you basically have to redo most of the game thrice.

>>390060795
Seriously ? I have a casual friend who said he didn't have any problem he couldn't outgrind and most of my difficulties came from refusing to use half of the cast until the final boss.

>>390061270
Darkest Dungeons

>Gothic Horror Atmosphere
>low depth, high breadth
>impossible to lose
>grindy
>figuring out the gimmick is more important than player skill
>UI is retarded at times for no discernible reason
>cool lore that's not shoved into your face
>great visual and sound design

>>390061575
Almost 100% of the game is spent looking at animations though

>>390061660
HOW QUICKLY

>>390061610
I'm saying there was nothing that I couldn't beat by figuring out a strategy to beat the boss. But that's expected, right? But think of any other FF, just go for the boss and hit it with your most damaging move and you are good to go.

>>390061687

He has a point though. The animations are quick and you can move through battles quickly as a result. Final Fantasy, among others, loads up on the shitty, drawn out animations and it just makes the random encounter style forced into combat gameplay a fucking nightmare of tedium.

File: Untitled.png (569KB, 677x477px) Image search: [Google]

569KB, 677x477px

Grandia's ultimate battle system, specifically in 2 and 3 (despite being Grandia 3 being an irredeemable shitpile either way) was my best experience with a turn based system.

All the units in a battle would move based on the little time line, their speed stat determining how fast they would slide from wait to COM and the specific wind-up of the attack determining the time it took from COM to ACT.

The interesting part of the game was being able to shut down enemy activity. If you're hit by particular attacks between COM and ACT, your entire turn is canceled and you are thrown back between wait and COM and have to wait all over again to get a turn in. This core mechanic is expanded on further by spacing yourself so that enemies can't actually get to you because crossing the field requires MOV and getting hit with normal damage slighlty slows the progression of one's time line.

>>390061764
A SLOW AND INSIDIOUS KILLER
I'm still amazed at how much they nailed everything but the core gameplay.

>>390061803
I played 1,2 and 4 on top of 13 and in the remake of 1 the basic strategy was to buff yourself to invincibility before auto attacking.

But yeah you're re right otherwise.

>>390061660
>figuring out the gimmick is more important than player skill

define gimmick
define player skill

>>390061819
Yeah, I do agree though. Literally stopped me fromnusing aeons (before I discovered the shorter animations option in the menu, but those were still too long)

>>390061981
The only problem with the game is that it's fucking brain dead and there's only really one instance in which you need to know how to use the battle mechanics in order to win unless you like to make videos where you kill the last boss without taking any damage.

>complaining about pokemon's gameplay

Pokemon has more depth in competitive play than any other turn based game ever made

>>390062195
Yeah but the depth is almost irrelevant in single player.

>>390062195
Tell me how many competitive turn based games are hosted at events at the moment.

>>390062195
lol

>>390062195
>have to know all the meta builds so you can counter them before hand
>every move is trying to guess what the other players is going to do so you can counter it
Yeah, really fucking great on top of all the fucking grinding it requires

>>390062195
None of this is shown in single player where you play match the weakness and train your starter into a killing machine

>>390062072
>define gimmick
>this one strategy mostly invalidates the difficulty of the encounter, e.g. drop-stabbing the Taurus demon, buffing resist vs the Siren

>define player skill
>In this ccontext, strategic skill. the ability to judge and react to complex emerging situations. To give a metric: If you made a flowchart to determine your course of action, the less complex the flowchart is the lower the amount of skill required is. E.g. In a game like Starcraft you willl have to react very differently based upon map state, game time, wtc. Darkest Dungeon is pretty straightforward, nuke stress/damage first based upon your heal capacity, stun front row, heal up, save DeathsDoor party members with the cheapest heal fast enough. More complex bossfights are rare and party compositions that require different playstyles aren't more complex, just require a different simple strategy.

File: 1494477374386.jpg (366KB, 2560x1792px) Image search: [Google]

366KB, 2560x1792px

>>390041921
I hate turn based games where the characters perform a physical attack by posing a mile away from the enemy and the enemy receives damage.

>>390062638
so learning the 'gimmick' in darkest dungeon means learning the best way to deal with each enemy

>>390060627
Valkyrie Profile 1/2
The Metal Max series
Phantasy Star
Most Saga games
Baten Kaitos
Arc the lad 1-3
Treasure Hunter G
Treasure of the Rudras
Jade Cocoon
Thousand Sarms

In fact it would be easier for me to just start listening examples of RPGs that don't have good turn based combat. Because the shitty indie shit that you get today was not the industry standard.

>>390062195
literally just rock-paper-scissors with some extra office supplies added and a lot of research

Stick of truths turn based combat is great

Every weebshit trashgame sucks

>>390062857
Thousand arms is driving me fucking nuts. All these dates and I don't fucking understand anime girls at all. I just want new attacks, whta the fuck.

>>390051587
God of War II.

>>390063058
You want attacks? No you don't. You want to go on more dates

>>390062798
>so learning the 'gimmick' in darkest dungeon means learning the best way to deal with each enemy
Yes, but the 'best way' is just plain superior to other strategies and is in itself usually not complex at all, therefore no judgement is necessary once you figured it out.
'Follow this instruction and you win (unless the RNG massively screws you)' is pretty bad design for anything but a tutorial level as you can just turn your brain off once you know the 'solution' to each enemy. The final levels and the courtyard bosses actually stand out because they avoid that problem, too bad they're only like 2% of your game time.

>>390042102
DQ is the only jrpg series I can't understand why people like. It's the most generic, slowest and grindy, with the greatest lack of plot. I don't understand the appeal when you have Persona, FF, Bravely Default, Mario RPGs, Mother, Tales of, and even fucking pokémon. What does DQ have compared to any of these?

>>390056082
>In a shooter, u can usually pause at any point, nearly having a similar amount of "turn based" elements.
You can attack and be attacked at the same time in a shooter and actions take different amounts of time to perform retard.

>Complex turn based games give you a larger number of base actions
No they don't, and most are redundant copypasted versions of other actions.

>>390063190
Wyna is the most contrarian piece of shit.

>>390062780
Pic unrelated?

>>390063236
>Follow this instruction and you win
maybe learn the game yourself instead of having other people figure it out for you mate

>>390063267
>with the greatest lack of plot
Woah now. Dragon Quest suffers from many things. But a lack of plot isn't it.

Anyways:
>What does DQ have compared to any of these?
In general? Music, plot (even if that's subjective), presentation, a series of tradition in terms of sound effects and attacks that it adheres to, and various ways to solve problems that aren't very hard.

>>390063336
It's an example of turn based on right. I like how the characters move around, circle the enemy and run in to attack.
P5 fucked that up somehow.

>>390041921
is that hank hill?

>>390041921
These are people conflating turn-based with JRPGs. And it's nobody's fault but you mouthbreathing weebs.

>>390062780

>>390061981

Turn based games are great. Maybe stop playing games that spend all their time and resources on Vietnamese cartoons instead of improving the actual gameplay.

>>390063514
>Woah now. Dragon Quest suffers from many things. But a lack of plot isn't it.
I don't know if what I've experienced from 3, 4, 5 and 9 could be called "not a lack of plot". There was a setting, sure, but a developed narrative? Hardly.
>In general? Music, plot (even if that's subjective), presentation, a series of tradition in terms of sound effects and attacks that it adheres to, and various ways to solve problems that aren't very hard.
Definitely a tradition for sound and music... it just isn't good.

>>390063374
>maybe learn the game yourself
I did? That doesn't make the game deeper, figuring out that nuking backrow is strictly the best tactic is no outlandish realization, I figured that shit out as soon as I had my first Jester (pre-nerf). The point remains, almost every situation in the game is solved by following an incredibly simple plan, and there aren't many variations between those plans either. What Darkest Dungeons would have needed is more complex abilities and interactions of these and more ways to influence the variables of the game. To put my criticism into a form you will hopefully understand better:
If there's on patent solution to each situation of gameplay, the game becomes dull once you learned these, which is very soon if you're not retarded.

>>390063514
The problem is, DQ doesn't really do anything better than a lot of JRPGs but it also has really fucking boring combat.

>>390063867
Sounds like a severe case of garbage taste. The only cure is to kill yourself.
Also, I doubt you played DQV.

>>390047887
Not everything needs to go a mile a second you dysfunctional, hyper-induced dunce.

>>390063867
Maybe not from an objective standpoint. As a game about exploring and doing fuckall I'll take any metal max any day of the week, but it really isn't that bad for a series to never lose it's charm.

I'm not going to argue it's a fantastic series, it's not. But the series is never going to stop being about presentation and THE traditional fantasy story. And that's enough for people, myself included.

As a disclaimer I don't know how you could think 5 lacks a plot.

>>390063914
don't be rude. I understand but don't agree

>>390064074
> I understand but don't agree
why not?

>>390064213
because I don't think it's as simple as you say it is. you even mentioned elements of chance in your post, but you made it sound like a bad thing

>>390057578
Fucking retard, most Elder Scroll games, hell, most RPGs for that matter have a lot of time dedicated to menu-hopping. Perhaps you just hate games? Go watch a fucking movie, pleb.

>>390062780
Usually this bothers me as well but for some reason I love that shit in Breath of Fire 3. I can't really explain why I like it either, it's weird.

>>390064396
because bof3 is cozy as fuck

File: 1460328676220.jpg (314KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

314KB, 1280x720px

>>390060627
Ignore the ignorant weeaboos, they don't know anything better than awful JRPGs stagnated in the NES era.

Three first Xcoms (play the open modded versions) and the recent Xcom 2
Wizardry 8
ToEE modded (and Knights of the Chalice)
Divinity Original Sin
Panzer and Fantasy General and Advance Wars (not as good as the General series, but still nice for much simpler turn based strategy)
Front Mission 2, 3, 4 and 5

>>390064396
I can explain why. Unlike Breath of Fire 2, the sound effects and screen impact of hits in Breath of Fire 3 are different. They step that up in Breath of Fire IV as well and that game's combat is absolutely glacial.

But things like attacking and getting attacked all have different sound effects that fluctuate by intensity of the blow and numbers that scale with how damaging it is.

>>390061236
This.

>>390064494
The shit. Half of your recommendations aren't even turn-based RPGs

Divinity Original Sin is indeed amazing.
>awful JRPGs that stagnated the NES era
Back then we called all RPGs, RPGs. This WRPG JRPG shit didn't get kicked into gear until the early 2000s

>wizardry 8 before play 6 or 7, a literal trilogy
Nigga what?

>>390062350
Wtf are you ever saying???

>>390058063
This.

I've only really enjoyed roguelikes, Disgaea, and Soul Nomad when it comes to turn based games.
I wish Soul Nomad got a sequel, disgaea has like 6 games out now, with two spin offs, but zero for Soul Nomad.

>>390064310
>you even mentioned elements of chance in your post, but you made it sound like a bad thing
that wasn't intended, I just wanted to account for that because in DD that is the only factor that might fuck you up if you follow the 'prefect strat'

>because I don't think it's as simple as you say it is
why?
you have almost no way of actively preventing damage except nuking stuff or stuns, so these two are the strats everybody uses unless he's doing a wacky 4Antiquarian run
you don't have environmental factors like in a shooter that might affect target priority
There are few combo-able abilities in the game, off the top of my head there's the +%healed of the Arb, Riposte+Guard and Marks, but due to how the game is structured these are useless about a third of the time and for the rest resort to the same strategies as other builds, i.e. nuke-back-stun-front

I honestly don't understand where you see the depth of the game, compared to something like Doom for example.

probably the deepest part of gameplay is trinket and party selection

>>390065186
>>390064310
Oh, another point:
Too many enemies are simply a meatshield or a squishy DD. More inspired designs like the Standard Bearer require slightly more complex strategies, but are rare, appear starting in midgame and are again susceptible to the boring old nuke strat.

>>390059498
I give this bait a 9/10

>>390061270
SMT 4 is the dark souls of persona games

File: 1505162004361.png (1MB, 1080x1288px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1080x1288px

Turn based trash is anachronistic

File: 1486866022749.png (538KB, 435x482px) Image search: [Google]

538KB, 435x482px

>>390041921
OpenXCOM is one of the finest gaming experiences I've ever had, some people just don't have taste

>>390065186
dodgespam master race, check my tactics
>get dodge trinkets
>use the dodge party buff every turn on maa

>I honestly don't understand where you see the depth of the game, compared to something like Doom for example.

I feel like they didn't get the balance right in DD, with moves, shuffles and debuffs not being as useful as they could be, and various other shit being not good enough or too good. maybe I'm retarded for looking at the potential with the system they came up with, rather than the end product they've left us with

>>390065863
So are first person shooters.

chess

>>390066740
Not really an fps fan, but FPSes actually require skill though, unlike flicking through menus. Anything that isn't turnbased is instantly better than turnbased trash. The only games that manage to keep your shit pushed are SMT and xcom.

>overwatch takes 'more skill' than chess

>>390067539
Man you're such a broken record.

>>390067691
Who told you that?

the guy above

>>390041921
Add Chrono Trigger and Dragon Quest into the mix.

File: 1295314672349.jpg (15KB, 206x285px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 206x285px

>>390041921
is this from the KotH anime?