What went wrong with Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, and how

>>389941671
Nothing. It's perfect as it is and AA6 had rose Apollo to Phoenix's level. Now it's time for Athena to shine.

>>389941671
Boring characters
Write characters that are not boring

Also it would be good if Apollo was able to talk to his clients.

>>389941671
His debut game should have been about him, not Phoenix's 7 years worth retarded chess match against Kristoph

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Obligatory.

Should have given Takumi full freedom with the plot rather than forcing him to make it about Phoenix

>>389942527
Hopefully this is bait. Apollo Justice is garbage and AA6 wasn't even as good as AA5.

>>389945775
This is great. I didn't know I wanted this to be a thing.

>best girls
>best soundtrack

these alone make AJ the best entry in the attorney series

>>389945775
I could accept that as spin off case.
Not as a permanent thing because Trucy forcing Apollo and Athena to be her assistants is the best.

>>389941671
>its a "let's play Klavier's theme 500 times" case

At least Apollo Justice had the best questioning theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXigFDxNUeI

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Best girl in the franchise

>>389948513

>It's a Klavier withholds important information for fun and doesn't get called out for it case

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>>389944506
>He doesn't like the "Just according to keikaku" plot

Get out pleb

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>>389941671
>What went wrong with Apollo Justice:
Case 3

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Apollo is a cool guy and Trucy is A BEST, but honestly, Hobo Phoenix shouldn't have been in it.
>>389945775
Also, this could have been neat.

>>389949128
>they thought the 14 year old was the killer
>repeating that video so many fucking times
How did this get past play testing?

>>389948513
honestly probably the best part of the game

>>389941671
>What went wrong with Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
Gramaryes.
>and how would you improve it?
Remove Gramaryes.

>>389949128
>Ema directly states in the case that the gun used in the murder had massive recoil that could the user's own bones if used that thing without proper training
>this is perfect point that would make it even more obvious the kid didn't do it is never mentioned again

>>389950134
This guy get it

>>389948179
Dual Destinies was even more garbage than Apollo, and its only good case was the dlc

Play the fucking pursuit theme once in a while. They didn't even use it in the final trial section.

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>>389950134

>>389950672
Best pursuit in the franchise and they only play it like 3 times.

>>389950827
Id say 2nd best if you count Investigations 2.

Overarching plot was fine, but for gods sake cases 3 and 5 were a fucking mess of plot and writing. 2 and 4 were better, they can stay. 1 was great EXCEPT the sour worthless throwaway when you learn Nick gave you false evidence. It looked like it was going to set up into something good, and they just throw it all away.

>>389950967
HOT OPINIONS COMING THROUGH
AJ > PLvsPW > AA > I2 > JFA > T&T > SoJ > I > shit > DD

>>389950967
>>389951537
POST PURSUITS LADS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pBWGp7vDKI

Apollo Justice is what's wrong
what a fag

>>389950967
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr9AVYDEeMQ
CAN'T
KEEP
GETTING
AWAY
WITH
IT

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I'm sick of people shitting on Apollo Justice or AAI or DD. Some games are lesser quality then others in the series but they are all still good games in general.

>>389952448
Largely I agree but I straight up dislike AAI. Got to third case, could not be fucked to continue.

>>389941671
The series already stales in AA2/3. AJ was just the classic "new generation" and, at the same time, a way to spit in the previous characters.

I like Apollo as a character but god he got the short end of the stick when it comes to plot. And while I love his arc in SoJ in giving some clarity to his upbringing, then end basicly just tosses him away for good, unless he becomes a traveling lawyer with Rayfa as his personal Maya.

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>>389952448
I unironically like Quercus Alba.

>>389949020
It was just "everyone is an asshole" the case.

It also kind of shits on Phoenix Wright himself, because you spent entirety of first game explaining that you can't just take law into your own hands, forge evidence and get the guilty verdict on people you want to get guilty verdict, and then you sort of, kind of take law into your hands, forge evidence and get guilty verdict just because he knows guy is totes guilty.

It started out strong, I liked Drew and Vera, but as soon flashback takes place it just falls apart in my opinion. Even fucking jurors don't really do jack shit.

>>389952569
AAI was trash but I just combined it with AAI2 and everything evens out.

>>389952785
I preferred "looks like a greedy Jew but is best boy in case once he seriouses the fuck up"

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>>389952785
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp1HCj_o3Lw

>>389952448
I agree, I still finished every fucking installment and that's more than I can say about literally every other franchise I've ever played.

I have pretty fond memories of all of them, but like, it's just sad that when you see Ace Attorney shit that could be actually great, but just isn't and can't elevate past first game/TT/GK2.

I do think series still has high notes to take, GK2 is all evidence I need, I just think that flaws should be pointed out.

>>389952785
I think everything about him was great EXCEPT for his motivation. Which sucks really bad.

I really don't get why people hate on him sweet talking his ass out of anything, dude is a fucking politician, his livelihood depended on selling people bullshit for 80 fucking years, no wonder he'd try to weasel himself out of any possible corner in any possible way imaginable.

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Make way!
Best boy coming trough.
Just kidding. You are all Nr.1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-upPs2rbaX4

>>389952984
He's great, seriously didn't expect him to be simply a good guy.

>>389952989
AAI's OST is fucking great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-eaziHvrrw

>>389953229
Motivation was killing the traitor, right?
But yeah, he was fucking glorious. I really liked how everything about him screamed "THE final boss". While AAI2's villain was better, final confrontation really felt lackluster because of final boss being shut down in literally two testimonies.

>>389953649
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQZuu8hAeeA

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>>389949178
>Trucy is A BEST
I wonder who's behind that post

>>389953649
He killed Kay's dad and basically was leader of this retarded smuggling ring you now remember only because I reminded you it was a plot point in AAI for some reason.

>>389941671
I just finished this a few days ago.

I thought for sure one of the reveals was going to be that Magnifi, the old man, was Trucy's father, and that's why Zak didn't have the power. Trucy's mother cheated on him. Whoops.

Also I liked the third case, I didn't see what was so bad about it aside from the whole revolver thing.

>>389952569
Case 4 is legitimately good, best case in the game, and case 5 is a bit divisive but most people like it a lot as well.
But yeah it starts off really boring, I can't fault anyone for not getting into it. I hope you still gave AAI2 a chance though, because it's the best game in the series

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Why won't Phoenix find a new Mommy for Trucy?

>>389956553
Because Iris is still in Jail. They totally didn't forget about her, I swear.

>>389956553
Because Edgewroth can't be a mom.

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>>389957108
>Iris

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It didn't have the best boy

>>389956553
He's going to make Trucy a mommy.

>>389956553
Because Athena is forbidden love

>>389958191
>prosecutor dumbfuck
>best anything

Yeah nah, post mommy Justine

>>389952847
inb4 Phoenix Wright was the real villain of AA4

>>389959135
Anon...... phoenix IS the real villain of all ace attorney

>>389960561
BUT THAT'S JUST A THEORY

>>389960632
A GAME THEORY

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>>389958718

>>389950385
BUT HE WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE BLIND!

>>389950732
Kinda ironic that with his scheme, he proved himself to be a Gramarye to the core. Truly an act of assholery that could only be done by a Gramarye.

>>389952717
It's the absolute opposite for me.
They give him a large amount of plot and it's honestly really good, but in the end his character is always the same "never give up" shonen personality which I can't help but see as a parody with how many times it's been done.
He's basically phoenix but more serious and less endearing as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding Athena, I really liked her plot in DD but can't really see where they will take her after that.

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>>389954708
>Trucy is A BEST
>I wonder who's behind that post
I know who.

>>389957108
Marlon Rimes is already out of jail, and he did way worse shit than Iris.

>>389941671
add in more stupid music videos that the player has to watch 3+ times

>>389962907
>Marlon Rimes is already out of jail
[citation needed]

>>389958463
Anon, this isn't Usagi Drop.

>>389962829
>Bunny girl magician
Fuck I've never waifu'd so hard in a case before, saving when Adrian Andrews was put on the spot..
AND TWINS THEY WERE

>>389963007
The end of the case, where it's a "few months later" and you're told Marlon is acting in the new stage show

>>389963310
>he waifu'd Bettty and Adrian
>both were lesbians
Oh Anon, your luck is sad.

>>389963353
Shame they didn't show marlon or sasha after the case at all, not even for a cutscene.
Marlon was pretty fucking fantastic.

>>389963447
Good thing Betty has a sister who's probably a hard dom

TELL APOLLO AND TRUCY ABOUT FAMILY STUFF!

>>389963640
You do know Betty was the nasty one, right? She was just tsundere as hell for Trucy, and probably wants to eat her out.

>identical twin sisters
>one gay, one straight
That can happen, right?

>>389941671

Too much focus on events surrounding Phoenix than it was Apollo

That being said, AA6 fixed this

>>389963643
I hope they tackle this issue in the next game so we can get that out of the way. It's not interesting in the least
>>389963310
I want to cum deep inside the shy one. Also
>that feel when pausing the game to fap to Rayfa
never done that before

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>>389963758
Oh right yes. After completing the case I tried to push it from my mind so I'd better be able to focus on finishing the rest of the game, lest I just go back and replay it immediately.
Also
>eat Trucy out
That's what she'd force her sister to do while mocking them both.

On the side, I do prefer when their hairstyles matched. The bat wing hairstyle was a little out there for me.

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>>389941671
Apollo is my favorite character and his game is my favorite as well. Though if I were to be more objective AAI2 wins with no competition. Even with all of AJ's flaws, I wouldn't change it for anything else.

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>>389964108
My nigga. I'm glad Bonnie turned out to be a good girl. Luckily she was just a cup size too small for capcom to turn her into a villain or a corpse.

>>389964869
>I do prefer when their hairstyles matched
i did too but only because i had horrendous OCD

I need an edit of that black chef with the pepper except it's retinz stretching the repossessed tape on charlie

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>>389966651
Leave the poor plant alone.

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What would happen if Magical Turnabout was the true final case of AJ?

YOU GOSH DARN GRAMMAR EYES

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When was the last time you spent some quality with your dad? Even if it was over something mundane

I fucking love Apollo

He was fucking great in his own game, the cynicism was Fucking kek

He was also great in DD, Athena being horseshit made Apollo's reactions even better

And by far SoJ was the Magnum Opus for Apollo, I absolutely loved what they did to him, the character growth in Case 5 was fucking great

Especially when they decided to bring up Jove Justice, I never expected they would bring Thalassa's husband, just stick with Adopted dad

>Trying to figure out whose bullshitting in Magical Turnabout

>Retinz is a grade A jackass

>Bonny is getting TOO helpful

>The entire basement scene

>Retinz being a bigger jackass just for measure

>legitimately can't tell whose the villain now

>>389941671
the final case was such an utter anti-climax that it left a terrible taste in my mouth

Case 1 establishes all of this fantastic intrigue, and then Case 4 delivers on NONE of it.

>>389941671
The characterizations were so fucking inconsistent. It honestly felt like they were making up the story as they went.

Zak Gramarye's actions in case 1 make no fucking sense given what we later learn about him, Phoenix and Trucy. There is no way to reconcile it. It's just terrible writing.

>>389967886
Yeah the confrontation was far more theatric in case 1, ironically enough.

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>>389941671

- Cut Phoenix from the story

- Cut the jurist system promotion from the story

>>389968030

Zack was a jackass, there is no other reason for his actions other than him being a jackass, case 1 especially

>>389968106
Cutting Nick would probably make the game sell like dogshit

>>389968106

Jury system literally existed specifically to capture krisoph even though he was already jailed

They somehow fucked up this writing by the writing phase

>>389968225
Hi Kenzo

Thanks for ruining the game

>>389968106

The idea of having Apollo solve what the Fuck happened with Phoenix is great

The execution and what ended up happening was the real flaw, Apollo did absolutely dogshit, it was all Phoenix handholding

>>389968167
That's a bullshit justification

AA4 reeks of executive meddling. Its so obvious that the story and characters got mangled in the process

>>389968272
The endgame for Phoenix was just to humiliate Kristoph and nothing more

>>389950134
>remove Trucy
>remove Apollo
>remove Lamiroir
So what the fuck is left of the game?

>>389968634
Ignore Reus. He's still salty that his magic is shit.

>>389964869
Nah, she was tsundere for Trucy, and was in denial about being her fan.
Meaning she's 100% gay for her. That's what anime taught me.

>>389968898
>Meaning she's 100% gay for her. That's what tumblr taught me.

FTFY

>>389941671
>don't ruin Ema's character
>don't ruin Phoenix's character
>let Klavier do something interesting
>create case premises that make sense
>let Apollo solve the fucking mystery himself

I think that's the worst of it

The middle two cases are pretty weak and Apollo never really experiences any growth or personal hardship over the course of the story.

>>389969048
It's not just tumblr that wants to see hot lesbian sex, Anon.

>>389969217

I dunno
Some people actually like depressed Ema, they started missing it when SoJ Ema acted like the way she shouldve

>>389970336
so make a different fucking character

>>389970056

>Personal hardship

The only hardship Apollo ever experiences in the course of 3 Fucking games is how bullshit his clients are

Even his backstory isn't as bullshit as the wacky fuck heads he has to defend

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Your voting for me right?

>>389963783
Half the cases in that game barely had anything to do with Phoenix and Apollo was the same in those games.

There's more to these games than the big melodramatic final cases where the writers typically throw out all semblence of "cases" and just have characters yell plot at each other into submission by the end of it in half of them.

>>389970750
I actually really liked this guy's music, and the idea of a cival suit as opposed to a criminal one. Too bad it was just Maya getting kidnapped again. Why not make it Trucy at least.

>>389968030
>I've come back to leave my inheritance for my daughter
>And to destroy your reputation as a poker player, so you will no longer have any income to take care of my daughter

>>389970449
>Even his backstory isn't as bullshit as the wacky fuck heads he has to defend
I disagree. Him conveniently being Kristoph's protege, him conveniently having his best friend work at the same place Athena grew up and die there in such a way so that Apollo can get mad at Athena, and now him growing up in a country where spirit channeling was normal, not mentioning this to anyone even as Phoenix heads there and not immediately realizing who Nahyuta is within his own internal monologue despite later in the game it being treated as if he knew all along is pretty bullshit. If it was just one of those backstories then you can shrug it off but not all three one after the other. Why does the guy literally called "Justice" need so much personal motivation and baggage to be persuaded to just do his job properly?

>>389968358
Trucy and especially Kristoph spoonfeed him answers way more. I can't take the people complaining about Phoenix in AJ as the sole reason it's bad seriously at all when he's only even prominent at the very beginning and very end of the game, not sure if it's just one big ongoing unfunny joke or if these threads are just filled with very vocal speedreaders.

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>>389963027
They barely come off as father & daughter anyway, for what little that's worth. Pearl and even Athena have more of an observable father-daughter relationship with the guy.

>>389972123
Adding the Khura'inese backstory was the epitome of asspulling

The ridiculous amount of plot holes in case 3 and 4

>>389948816
This is true though

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>>389972123
>not immediately realizing who Nahyuta is within his own internal monologue
People keep saying this, but that's just wrong.

>>389968030
To be fair, he was probably an Arab, he can't resist his instincts to beat women.

I'm starting Dual Destinies, what am I in for?

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>>389968106
>- Cut the jurist system promotion from the story
You're only saying that because they dropped it in DD though. For all people keep saying about wanting the series to move forward, you guys are weirdly tolerant of Apollo who barely felt "new" at all. They had this chance to have an actually new protagonist, and they waste it this bootleg Phoenix. He still feels like bootleg Phoenix at the end of 6 as much as the game pretends he isn't, the game culminates a case that rehashes plot points from Phoenix's old cases to boot even. Even in 4's plot he wasn't even really necessary, they could've just made Trucy the lawyer and it would've been the same (if not better since she has ties to Zak). Not an Athenafag but she actually felt different and distinct to Phoenix & Apollo when you played as her atleast.

Jurist System should've stayed and been reworked into an actual mechanic (a la DGS' juries). Hell AA4 shouldn't have had Apollo in it, have it be the final Phoenix game where he changes the court system and have the games after that feature the new protagonist set in the new legal system. Of course it's easy for me to say that now with hindsight I guess.

>>389973628
I don't think he was meant to be arab, "Shadi" wasn't his real name.

>>389974020
Yakuza devs are doing the same thing with it's new protag too, the new one sounds extremely similar to the old one (granted we only know a little about him at the moment). Guess devs want to ease old players into things but it still feels like a plain old lack of creativity.

>>389952717
> then end basicly just tosses him away for good
Why do people keep saying this, they have that stinger about him & Trucy being siblings for a reason.

Also he doesn't get the "short end of the stick", more specifically the writers have no idea what to do with him other than to invent up a new bullshit backstory. Phoenix's mere presence in the game does not mean they have to do that and you know that, if he's so similar to Phoenix that he needs stuff like that to stand out then he's a bad character concept (alternatively the writers need to pick a direction with him and just stick with it. For all three MCs their backstories are the weakest things about them as characters, Apollo basically being known for his backstories isn't a good thing)

>>389973968
A decent game that makes up for 4, but falls short of 3. Enjoy it. Save the DLC case for last, it's the best one.

>>389942527
>had rose Apollo to Phoenix's level
He still hasn't had a case on the level of 1-4 or 2-4 I feel. Nor has he blown a prosecutor up so hard that they kill themselves afterwards like what happened with Manfred and Godot.

People keep saying Phoenix's story ended at 3, but honestly, it ended at 1. 3 ended the Fey family's story more than anything else, even if that scene of Mia formally passing the buck to him was nice (plotwise she did that already back in 1)

>>389976038
AA1 is the only one in the mainline series that was designed as a standalone story, that's why.